Please don't hate me but sometimes I read some responses and questions, it makes me wonder if I am like any of you at all. A lot of you had this successful male lives and it seems some really good ones. And then i read about slumber parties. I nevr had one, male or female. I wet the bed til i was 13 and the most i got was sleep different. And I have tried to have a mle life with kids, but i had to tell the truth. It's one thing lying about herpies, though u shouldn't but it happens, but if you know ur a CD at the least you should say something. Most girls will tend to paint the BFs toenails or something and then after subtly pudhig them to do more, do tell them. It just seems like when i read about TS people and hate and deception, sometimes I agree as far as the wives left behind. Imagine being married for 20 yrs and then poof I'm having a sex change. And it isn't even that: it's the I can't beleive she might leave me it's just hormones and dressing up for the mall. Isn't love more. No, it isn't. I feel so so so bad for these wives. I was engaged to be married before and my ex knew i like CD, but I told her that sometimes I want to go all the way. She didn't leave right away but she left. It killed me. I became a drunk and addict. I loved her but it was still the right thing rather then saying 20 yrs later and ruining their lives. For those in their 60s, this doesn't apply. But if you were 22 in 1992, you knew exactly what a TS was. I was 10 and I knew. And I undertand it do a point but sometimes I think the over-the-top empathy is part of our comunties problem. Imagune coming here wanting to learn more about us, and then you see a bunch of people who say yeah I can't believe my life won't turn lesbian. How mysognistic.
Yesterday, I read this blog where this girl come out of the closet and before hormones even, joins a Dyke March. Really? And then she wonders why she wasn't accepted? How about it could be some frat boys prank. Or some pervs fantasy. They can't know. Just because you say you are a girl doesn't make you one. I'm not talking about XX/XY here, I'm talking about taking long-term steps, like HRT and SRS. I bet if she did that they woulda accepted her. But on her first day! I wouldn't either. We have to reconize other's feelings. Not everyone is going to call u "he" or "amelia" in a month. It takes times.
It isn't a perfect world but a lot of the genuine non-hateful comments I read about us, is that we are whiny and self-absorbed. And ot reiterate when people come to these boards and see people actually telling and supporting others to deceive their wife, I can see the deceptive part too.I've been on TS boards i one way or other since 2000.Bu t this is the must intimate I have gotten.
Some of you are just so lucky. My mom makes fun of my eyebrows everyday and they aren't bad or uber-femme. he called me a cancer patient. Last year when I attempted to transition, this is what happend: attempted rape until they saw my 5'oclock shadow and then I got beaten, tasered, hit who knows how much with a gun, and then blinfolded as they counted down with a gun to the back of my headtelling me soon my brains would get blown out. They abviosly didn't. Plus the stuff I hear about sex workers. Yeah, some girls don't have a choice. AND don't get me started on self-meds as yeah docs are better but guess what, they are not magic. They make mistakes. Just cause your own a doctors care doesn't mean DVT only happens to DIYers. I hear this everyday: that is so dumb and stupid and this and that to self-med. Well guess what not everyone was born wealthy.
I'm not trying to down anyone. I just wish we would try to think of how wives must feel, how others feel, and must of all, how people who cant afford a doctor must feel. Sometimes other then GID it doesn't feel like some have ever felt pain. Im sure they have but it feels that way. I just think a lil attempt to be less self-absorbed (myself included might give us a more positive image). And year Im biased as I dont like being killed.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 07, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
Please don't hate me but sometimes I read some responses and questions, it makes me wonder if I am like any of you at all. A lot of you had this successful male lives and it seems some really good ones. And then i read about slumber parties. I nevr had one, male or female. I wet the bed til i was 13 and the most i got was sleep different. And I have tried to have a mle life with kids, but i had to tell the truth. It's one thing lying about herpies, though u shouldn't but it happens, but if you know ur a CD at the least you should say something. Most girls will tend to paint the BFs toenails or something and then after subtly pudhig them to do more, do tell them. It just seems like when i read about TS people and hate and deception, sometimes I agree as far as the wives left behind. Imagine being married for 20 yrs and then poof I'm having a sex change. And it isn't even that: it's the I can't beleive she might leave me it's just hormones and dressing up for the mall. Isn't love more. No, it isn't. I feel so so so bad for these wives. I was engaged to be married before and my ex knew i like CD, but I told her that sometimes I want to go all the way. She didn't leave right away but she left. It killed me. I became a drunk and addict. I loved her but it was still the right thing rather then saying 20 yrs later and ruining their lives. For those in their 60s, this doesn't apply. But if you were 22 in 1992, you knew exactly what a TS was. I was 10 and I knew. And I undertand it do a point but sometimes I think the over-the-top empathy is part of our comunties problem. Imagune coming here wanting to learn more about us, and then you see a bunch of people who say yeah I can't believe my life won't turn lesbian. How mysognistic.
I had nothing that resembled a 'successful male life' - not in any way, shape or form. I don't agree with deception of any kind, so any partner gets told. I was 17/18 in 1992, I knew what a trans person was.. I just couldn't accept that I was one, so your 'no excuse' line is a little overboard. In order to cope with what I knew about myself I did all sorts of stupid things - including ending up an amphetamine addict.. Knowing and accepting are 2 different things.
QuoteYesterday, I read this blog where this girl come out of the closet and before hormones even, joins a Dyke March. Really? And then she wonders why she wasn't accepted? How about it could be some frat boys prank. Or some pervs fantasy. They can't know. Just because you say you are a girl doesn't make you one. I'm not talking about XX/XY here, I'm talking about taking long-term steps, like HRT and SRS. I bet if she did that they woulda accepted her. But on her first day! I wouldn't either. We have to reconize other's feelings. Not everyone is going to call u "he" or "amelia" in a month. It takes times.
Maybe a little more discretion and tact was advised in that situation. But frankly, even as an openly trans woman, I've had no issues with acceptance in the lesbian community here.
QuoteIt isn't a perfect world but a lot of the genuine non-hateful comments I read about us, is that we are whiny and self-absorbed. And ot reiterate when people come to these boards and see people actually telling and supporting others to deceive their wife, I can see the deceptive part too.I've been on TS boards i one way or other since 2000.Bu t this is the must intimate I have gotten.
See my response to the first section..
QuoteSome of you are just so lucky. My mom makes fun of my eyebrows everyday and they aren't bad or uber-femme. he called me a cancer patient. Last year when I attempted to transition, this is what happend: attempted rape until they saw my 5'oclock shadow and then I got beaten, tasered, hit who knows how much with a gun, and then blinfolded as they counted down with a gun to the back of my headtelling me soon my brains would get blown out. They abviosly didn't. Plus the stuff I hear about sex workers. Yeah, some girls don't have a choice. AND don't get me started on self-meds as yeah docs are better but guess what, they are not magic. They make mistakes. Just cause your own a doctors care doesn't mean DVT only happens to DIYers. I hear this everyday: that is so dumb and stupid and this and that to self-med. Well guess what not everyone was born wealthy.
Some people are jerks- if you've gotten to any age over about 15 without working this out, well.... I'm sorry about what happened to you, but a little common sense can avoid situations where that kind of thing can happen. I was a sex worker in a previous life and I have nothing but respect for those who work in the industry - it takes a certain kind of person, not everyone is suited to it. Personally, I think if you haven't been there, zip your lip.
As far as self-medding goes? I've got quite a bit of education in the medical field, and I wouldn't do it.. Not just because of clotting risks.. Liver damage is something else to consider. Yes, docotrs make mistakes, but not as often as someone who self-treats using info acquired online (much of which is so wrong as to be very dangerous).. I also like that I can get my bloodwork done and not have to pay through the nose for it - because it is requested by a practising doctor. Got any ideas why, for no reason, you are suddenly severely depressed? My gyno did - and stopped me from taking any more Androcur.. The fact my T level was also ZERO was another thing we picked up on.
QuoteI'm not trying to down anyone. I just wish we would try to think of how wives must feel, how others feel, and must of all, how people who cant afford a doctor must feel. Sometimes other then GID it doesn't feel like some have ever felt pain. Im sure they have but it feels that way. I just think a lil attempt to be less self-absorbed (myself included might give us a more positive image). And year Im biased as I dont like being killed.
I've had plenty of my pain in my life - it's why I spent 4 months seeing my therapist weekly before I started hormones. I wanted to deal with it before I moved forward. However, I've dealt with it and it's no longer baggage that I lug through life. Transition was a new start for me.
Apart from the fact that I've dealt with my past as best I can for now, I don't share all of it here. I don't share it all with anyone - except my therapist, who I skimped, saved and sometimes went hungry in order to pay.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 07, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
For those in their 60s, this doesn't apply. But if you were 22 in 1992, you knew exactly what a TS was.
My parents didn't know that TSs existed, let alone what a TS was, back in 2006 when I came out. They thought I was mentally ill. It made coming out so much harder than, say, coming out as gay. I bet many people still don't know what a TS is in 2013.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on March 07, 2013, 10:49:31 PM
Yesterday, I read this blog where this girl come out of the closet and before hormones even, joins a Dyke March. Really? And then she wonders why she wasn't accepted? How about it could be some frat boys prank. Or some pervs fantasy. They can't know. Just because you say you are a girl doesn't make you one. I'm not talking about XX/XY here, I'm talking about taking long-term steps, like HRT and SRS. I bet if she did that they woulda accepted her. But on her first day! I wouldn't either. We have to reconize other's feelings.
People have different reasons for delaying hormones etc. Transphobia in the lesbian community is nothing new, it is supposed to be worse than some mainstream circles from what I know, please don't make it acceptable because it is NOT.
Quote from: muuu on March 08, 2013, 12:57:11 AM
I think it's ok for married people to transition... It's unfortunate they dragged in others lives that much, but it wouldn't work out anyway. Expecting your partner to stay is selfish and inconsiderate though.
I didn't know about what a transsexual was until 2008, or actually, I didn't even know by then... because lots of info is inaccurate. Took me about a year to figure out what TS really was.
What? It's not the victims fault for being a victim... If a girl wears a short skirt walking home alone, then there's no wonder why she got raped and she has to blame herself? You can avoid certain situations by being very careful, but if you go home late one night and you might be unlucky and get assaulted.
As for example, I almost (unless I have to travel or see a doctor) only go out at night or early morning, because there are less people outside and in stores. Then if some homophobics would beat me up for looking gay, it's my fault? What exactly did I do wrong?
I live in Adelaide, it's a pleasant city without a huge amount of serious crime.. There are, however, parts of town where the likelihood of me being attacked for being trans is fairly high.. Common sense tells me to avoid those areas - so I do. There are bars and clubs that are likewise unsafe - I avoid them too. At no point was I blaming the victim - just pointing out that such situations can often be avoided.
I don't hide or scurry from place to place like a scared little girl. I just exercise some common sense. I will go in to 'unsafe' areas if I have reason to, but I will generally avoid them.
Oh, and just in case I'm coming off like someone who's never been beaten on, I have.. I've also been raped. I don't blame myself for what happened to me, but I do acknowledge that my own choices did make some contribution.
My problem, if you call it that, was the blogger seemed to insinuate that the first day he knew he was Trans, he joined a dyke collective, i.e radical feminists from what I've heard. I can see how they may view him as someone who may be pulling a prank. They don't know him. The better route would someway try to make connextions with them. More than this, he wanted to destoy it because he wasn't accepted on the spot. No one is accepted on the spot not just trans persons. BTW, not a sex worker, I just look a lil female sometimes and I can't avoid my house. I could not have prevented it I wasn't in a dress, i was just being me. A lil andro maybe and wasn't presenting as Trans. I can't help if I look like a girl from certain angles. Well an ugly girl thats for sure.Maybe they had low standards. And I'm not beating on those with kids at all. But after a couple when u know: then it becomes wrong and horrible. All I'm saying is the support on this site is sometimes too supportive. Soemtimes friendship isnt roses but turds. That's how u help, by being honest, but not too honest. Sometimes I just feel like people who had these masculine lives everytime thy post they say i have three kids, im the best CEO in the world, I'm an awesome male and have no problems i just fee like a woman. I dont get that. Also, it feels like im being smacked in the face for not being as good. I guess its just me.
I have to disagree trans truth: I haven't ever met anyone who didn't know what a TS is. Understanding? No. Knew. Def yes. I'm like barley 30 so i have diff expereinces. I mean though people transitioned in the 70s, so people knew what it was. i have the same issue with some vloggers who act as if they are some new thing. Yeah. sure. But whatever floats ur boat. I just think we have enough probs as is without creating our own. Like the very wise Cindy said, kill em with positiveness. The negative all do whatver to be me regardless. I disagree. I have very much trouble interacting as a male, so i don't understand people who are like i was super successful as a male. How? I mean. Really how? How can you if you really feel like a woman. I guess u can if you are in a field that doesn't call for evryday interaction. Otherwise, something funny comes out, for me. I guess some are better at hiding. Like i said, it feels like i'm being punched just like every other macho guy that has beat me up. Im macho hear me punch u with words. I dont mean to disrespect, i'd really like to know why?
Well, I *am* the SO, and I don't feel lied to (which isn't the same thing as saying I think it's OK to lie long-term, which I don't) and I think my wife is wonderful enough that it was worth it to struggle through transition with her. We did used to joke about this being "Hurricane [hername]" because it seemed like it turned our lives upside down... but *temporarily.* Where we've ended up afterward is better than before, just as a hurricane in the area last year means some blocks got rebuilt and vastly improved. Sure, she was 'whiny and self-absorbed' at times, but she tried not to be, and to be honest so have I been at times over the years. :)
btw, I've been to the Boston Dyke March every year since we were "eligible." My wife - and others - presented there early in transition/not on HRT/not "passing" well and were welcomed with open arms. They're very inclusive.
Girl you look fierce - I did say that I don't think it's OK to lie long-term, and I certainly never said anyone else should be fine with it. But other people were sharing their stories, so I figured I would too. I see those posts too... and then I see others from people who want desperately to think that "the trans bomb" doesn't destroy EVERY marriage. Certainly no one else is compelled to accept betrayal and deceit, and it's up to each individual SO to decide whether this revelation qualifies.
OK, pottymouths, I've cleaned up several posts, try to obey Susan's wishes while you are a guest in her house. From the TOS:
11. Foul or obscene language, and/or subjects belongs on the street, Please do not bring it on to my site
Well one thing you can do when it comes to so called "succesful males" that are transgendered is to look in the resources section under psychological issues. It's very eye opening. In a nutshell when it comes to transgenders and the way they identify themselves are differ variously between gays, transexuals, and heterosexuals. For example; gays identify themselves more as male, Transuexuals as female and heterosexuals as both genders. Something you would not expect. There is also a section that explains the "succesful male" or "extremely masculine" career choices as a compensation of the inner feelings of being female but the body is genetically male.
I have a masculine career. I have done alright but in no way am I a successful. The older I get, the worst the depression gets and the more effect it has on my life. I have done exactly what the psychological norm is, and now I either suffer worstening depression or destroy a life I have built. Not to mention other's lives. It is a choice that I cannot make. So I suffer it pretty much alone, in privacy. Will I ever mentally break and either dissappear and assume another identity? I wish I could, but this ain't Hollywood. Will I eventually end up in a rubber room because it's just too much to handle? I don't know. Will I develope a totally different personality in order to cope with the tremedous stress mentally as in a Multipal Personality Dissorder? That too may be possible.
Everyone is different and copes in different ways. The levels of gender identity people feel differ greatly from wearing female undergarments from time to time to full blown transitioning. The way people try to handle gender dysphoria also varies greatly from denial and overcompensation of the genetic gender to full blown out and out living as their preferrded gender, fully transitioned or not. I don't really care if someone whines about or screams it from the mountain tops, because we all have our own ways of coping and the coping mechanisms are different for different people.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 09:14:18 AM
I can't offer a solution 'cause it's really convenient to just "not know" something that is supposed to be an essential part of your personality for a while, and that would make you live in a totally different way...
I've been married for decades but only just realized that my strange feelings are due to being transgender, and only recently come to the understanding of what living as a woman will mean to me and how important it is.
I know many other women with similar experiences.
I must confess to finding your "it's really convenient" remark to be a bit offensive.
I have no regrets from being married, or parenting a child. My son is the most important thing in my life. He and I have such an amazing relationship, and me being trans has not hurt it in any way. Sure, my ex is now...my ex. It is simply because she is not a lesbian. We are still friends, and she still lives with me. I am letting her live with me, and I am paying for her to go to school so she can get a good job. She is not mad at me, and certainly does not hate me for being trans. She knows the struggles I went through to try and avoid transition. I avoided it because I was terrified, and just wanted to be "normal". I was beat as a child for not being masculine enough so I learned that it was wrong to be feminine. I also learned how to hide it very well. I did well as a male, not because I was masculine, but because I am quite smart and was very, very good at what I did.
BTW, my son calls me Daddy. I love him and don't care what he calls me.
We all have our reasons for living the life we have lived. Not understanding it is one thing, not accepting others is a totally different story.
My marriage survived all of this (46 years and counting).
I never even heard of TS until I was 30, married and kids. I made the decision to not fully transition until after they were out of the house. My decision, my burden.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 10:27:26 AM
That's fair, but I find it offensive that people take wives and have children while living as someone they're not. People get mad at me for saying that mainly because so many people here did it. You can say whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that being in a trans space means constantly hearing stories of broken marriages--that is depressing and I don't like when those people act like everyone took 40 years or whatever to simply decide how they want to live their life. I don't like when people think that represents every MTF.
I find it offensive that people judge others who had kids. Just because some of us did not transition until later in life does not mean we are bad people or bad parents. Not all of us were able to transition at such a young age, for whatever reason. Also, not all of us have the same outlook as you. Yes, broken marriages are depressing. However, marriages end all the time for many reasons. Please, do not judge us since you don't really know us.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 10:27:26 AM
That's fair, but I find it offensive that people take wives and have children while living as someone they're not. People get mad at me for saying that mainly because so many people here did it. You can say whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that being in a trans space means constantly hearing stories of broken marriages--that is depressing and I don't like when those people act like everyone took 40 years or whatever to simply decide how they want to live their life. I don't like when people think that represents every MTF.
I have to admit, I'm not too concerned if people are led to believe that transitioning at 40 years is representative. It means the younger transitioners can remain invisible and less detectable. Call that selfish, if you will. For me, ignorance is bliss. There's more than enough information out there already if you look. Anyway, I was too dysfunctional to get married or/and have children.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 10:27:26 AM
That's fair, but I find it offensive that people take wives and have children while living as someone they're not. People get mad at me for saying that mainly because so many people here did it. You can say whatever you want, doesn't change the fact that being in a trans space means constantly hearing stories of broken marriages--that is depressing and I don't like when those people act like everyone took 40 years or whatever to simply decide how they want to live their life. I don't like when people think that represents every MTF.
"Transgender" did not show up on my radar until I was past 50. Bisexuality was something I recognized as a teen, and something I disclosed. For many of us who did not grow up in the "Information Age," the truth about ourselves was not readily apparent until after we had entered into relationships, and in some cases, had families.
If given the opportunity to go back in time, knowing what I know now, I might have made different decisions. At the same time, the pain of being me (and that pain and anguish is real, and is ever-present), is more than balanced by the joy of having a family. Now that my youngest is in college, I have time to more fully focus on myself.
I completely understand you point, Pretty. And in a perfect world we would all recognize our dysphoria early. But that just does not happen. And even when it does, some of us are so scared of the consequences, we don't act.
In many ways, in the past couple of years, as I have come to grips with who I am, I constantly worry about hurting those I love. And so I suffer in silence and shame.
As society learns about gender issues, there will be less excuses for transgendered people to marry without their spouses knowing in advance what they are getting into.
Each generation has less excuse for this.
I will speak from my own case only. I'm old I was born in 1944 and in the 50's and 60's (when I got married) information was not readily available. I'm not using that as an excuse, of course I knew there was something different about me. I knew I wanted to be and felt I was a woman. Sure I got married, first because I loved the person, second there was pressure to conform, third sure I was hoping being married might help my confusion.
Now I did tell my wife that I wanted to be a woman, being only 20 herself and growing up in a generation that hadn't heard of transgendered issues she heard it and it went over her head. She had nothing in her life experience to test this against (neither of us did). We got married. She accepted me dressing and we even went out together as women, but to her this was "just crossdressing" (and that is not a slam at crossdressers), to me it was me trying to live as a woman.
At 30 I finally met an actual transsexual who was about to have surgery, that was the first I had ever heard about it. It blew my mind, I finally understood my life.
I tried hormones at that point and they felt right. My wife was not happy and we fought. Major fights, I, Me and only Me made the decision that I would not completely transition and would stop hormones, until my kids were grown and out of the house. I had made a commitment to my wife when we got married and it was not fair to her or the kids to break that. That's my morality, I don't hold others to it.
When the kids did move out I went back on hormones, we fought, but came to terms and have continued our marriage and hopefully will do so until we die.
Surgery was not an option for other medical reasons, I accept this, not happily, but accept.
I do live, work and fulfill our marriage as Sarah (well worked, now retired) and consider myself "Transitioned".
Everyone knew about TS back then!?! NOT! I'll quote myself from another thread.
"With no internet all I saw growing up what was on TV, even in college (86) there were no computers but for the IBM DOS systems they were just starting to use in HR. Books with Transgender referance in the library and courses I took were relegated mostly to deviant behavior,only a couple paragraphs or two pages long, and descriptions were not even close to being 'Me'. I survived and lived thinking I was alone and a freak among freaks for years although no one ever questioned my birth gender. I gave up on trying to find information or others like me for decades. It was not untill a few years ago that I found this vast network of groups, that are not sex sites. Choosing the wrong search term(STILL) will send you results that are not pleasant to view!!!(Thank the old TV shows for that again.)"
If your under 30 there is a good chance you do not know the social and family pressure of the 'old order' in America growing up on your life and the crushing indoctrination at every turn. You were on your own in the darkness. Many chose to live in that pretend life and strive to fit in to avoid the ridicule that would have been tenacious when brougth down on them as well as their family. Ostrization in a small town or village was real and compleate. It still is in some communities.
As for kids, If I could have rented a uterus I would have. But you can't. So when the biological clock alarm goes off .. you do what you have to. No regrets. Selfish? After a life selflessly pretending to be someone else around family I chose to do something for ME and my happiness. I don't expect or CARE if anyone else approves or disaproves. Every day is a new adventure for my kid and myself that brings more joy ,even on bad days,into life then I ever could have imagined possible.
We are much like snowflakes.. We may be similar but no two of us are the same, nor do we follow the same exact path.
One can worry,stress,lament,fume and crusade over issues to obsession or they can live THEIR life. I choose that latter.
Kia Ora,
::) "Different strokes for different folks !"
One can change the way they look at things, but they can't change what 'is' !
Would the world be a perfect place if people were all like 'me/you' ?
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Kuan Yin on March 08, 2013, 12:20:10 PM
Kia Ora,
Would the world be a perfect place if people were all like 'me/you' ?
Metta Zenda :)
Like me...definitely. Like you...not so much. >:-) :-*
Quote from: Brooke777 on March 08, 2013, 12:28:09 PM
Like me...definitely. Like you...not so much. >:-) :-*
Kia Ora Brooke,
::) But I'm like you ;) ;D
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: Kuan Yin on March 08, 2013, 12:31:49 PM
Kia Ora Brooke,
::) But I'm like you ;) ;D
Metta Zenda :)
Oh dear, this world is really going to be messed up if there are two of us running around. ;D
Quote from: Brooke777 on March 08, 2013, 12:44:14 PM
Oh dear, this world is really going to be messed up if there are two of us running around. ;D
Kia Ora Brooke,
::) Not really...Just think, what weird, whacky, wonderful world it would be-If all the people were wonderful, whacky and weird, like you and me ! ;)
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 12:56:24 PM
. I just want people to stop lying once they *do* know.
Kia Ora GYLF,
Why ? How will it impact on/improve your life if this were to happen ?
Metta Zenda :)
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 12:56:24 PM
@Sarah Louise and Lorri Kat
It's none of my business but I'm sorry if I don't really buy it. Not in my lifetime. I've had my fair share of pressure to fit in as a male, I felt it much more strongly than most people do and it ruined my life, it didn't force me into a male role because there was no way I could or would live in that role. I still don't believe people are being honest when they say it was pressure that made them live how they did. Like what, you didn't love your wife? Just married her cause ya had to? I don't believe not knowing about the possibility of transition can make a man out of someone who is just not a man.
There have been lots of trans resources for a long time now and people are still discovering at 50 or later that they want to transition. Those people who struggle on a fundamental level with these issues will find out about it, they would have found out about it even in the 70s because they would do research and reach out for people who understand what they're going through.
So sorry, I don't buy it. That is probably rude of me but I don't. You can call me privileged by the era I was born in, but that's not how I lived my life, even before I knew you could transition, even with a very healthy dose of pressure to be more male. But again, it's not my business and I don't care... I am not assessing legitimacy and I don't have a right to. I just want people to stop lying once they *do* know.
OK, you are starting to get into an elitist type of conversation here. You are putting down all late transitioners and essentially calling them bad people. I strongly advise you to stop making these types of statements. If you would like to discuss it more, I am willing to try and shed some light on it via PM. But please, do not continue this on here as it has a strong potential of hurting others.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
It's not about my life, I just feel so terrible for the wives who go through this, it's not fair to them and there's no reason I should be supportive of anything that is hurting a large number of people.
And there is no reason for you to put down those who have taken a different approach to life than you have. Fine, you don't understand and you don't agree. You have voiced that opinion many times over. Let's move on.
Girl you look fierce, I don't expect you to buy it, your of a different generation, your 21. There is no way you can understand what it was like 50/60 years ago, and I don't expect you to.
You have your right to your opinion and I respect that.
I do agree, once you understand yourself it isn't right to lie to a spouse.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 01:00:58 PM
It's not about my life, I just feel so terrible for the wives who go through this, it's not fair to them and there's no reason I should be supportive of anything that is hurting a large number of people.
I think your right the wives did not ask for this. I personally made the decision when I was 18 that could not get married. There was only so far I was willing to take the straight guy act I was somewhat putting on at the time. The more I thought about it the more I realized how much pain I would cause so I stayed single despite great pressure from family to get married and have kids.
QuoteFor those in their 60s, this doesn't apply. But if you were 22 in 1992, you knew exactly what a TS was. I was 10 and I knew.
Well... as someone who was only 7 years old in 1992, I just wanted to add something about this part of the post. (I understand where you're coming from, and yes, sometimes we can been too supportive, but I do take issue with this part of it at least.)
Yes, I did know what a transsexual was while I was growing up. But no, at the same time, I did not. From the limited media exposure that I had as a kid and a teenager, and the limited internet research that I did, I knew that basically transsexuals were men who wanted to become women. And every single time I saw a transsexual, it was either A.) someone who still looked like a man in a dress, or B.) an early-transitioner who they described as having taken "puberty blockers," which, I assumed since I was already past puberty by the time my dysphoria got serious enough to look into it, was too late to do anything for me, or C.) Someone who had gone through a million surgeries... facial surgery, SRS, breast implants, butt implants, and things which I NEVER wanted to have to go through because I despise our plastic-surgery-obsessed culture.
I internalized these things. So as a teen, I assumed that in order to transition genders I would either have to 1.) spend my entire life looking like a man in a dress, and be laughed at. 2.) spend thousands of dollars on surgery after surgery after surgery if I ever wanted breasts or a female butt or a female face. 3.) somehow go back in time to before puberty, so that I could stop my male puberty and have a female one instead. I believed this for FOURTEEN YEARS. And I internalized it. I believed that there was no way that I would ever be a female, that there was no way that I was ever going to be able to undo all of the things that my male puberty had already done to me, and that those changes would never go away, and as such I relegated my transsexualism to the realm of being a "problem" that I had to get over, and thus treated it as such. My logic was "well, I'm never going to have a female body anyway, so why even bother thinking about it? It will just make me depressed and make me wish I was something that I'm not." So I shoved them to the side, and tried to pray them away and ignore them with varying degrees of success for fourteen years. That was, until last November when my 6-year relationship with my girlfriend ended because I wasn't living up to her expectations, and I realized that it was because I wasn't comfortable in the male role of our relationship. And only then did I finally, through pure luck one day on the Eunuch Archive, stumble on before-and-after pictures and videos of those who had gone through HRT. That was the very first time that I realized that it was not too late, that it really was possible for me to still transition and actually get a female body almost completely naturally. And as SOON as I knew that, I IMMEDIATELY got on it, and have been ever since.
What I am saying is that, yes, I did know what a transsexual was back in high school when my dysphoria was at its worst. But at the same time, I did not truly know. Because I did not want to be transsexual if that meant being a man in a dress, or having a fake body that only looks female because of plastic surgery. I wanted to have a female body naturally... and I just assumed that this was impossible. That I would never have smooth skin, and hips, and a female face, and the subcutaneous female fat... and as such, I didn't see the point in even bothering to try, even though I wanted to be a girl VERY badly. And once I starting thinking "it's impossible" due to misinformation, or lack of information, I stopped looking, because I just assumed that I would never have those things that I wanted, and as such it wasn't worth depressing myself by obsessing over them. Once you get that mindset in your head, it's VERY hard to change. So I stopped looking. And every time my transsexual thoughts came back to me, I told myself "NO! You're over that. Quit thinking about it. It will only make you depressed because it's something that you can never have." And that kept me from transitioning for the entire fourteen years of my post-pubertal life, even though I knew full well that I wanted to be a girl.
My point is, although the information was technically there, it was buried so deeply, and there was so much misinformation getting in the way in front of it, that it took me fourteen years to find it. So I don't think it's exactly fair to say that we have no excuse. Yes, it's an absolutely terrible thing when families and relationships are torn apart by transitioning, but at the same time I do not believe that we have reached an age yet where people have no excuse. I was raised on misinformation. As soon as I did find the right information, though, you can bet that I had no damned excuse anymore. And that's why I was on hormones within a month of finally learning about what they could do.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents on the topic. Yes, we are getting to an age where people are beginning to have no excuses anymore. But we're not there yet. There's still too much misinformation, too much social ignorance, and too much cultural pressure against it, to say that people have no excuse.
I understand what Pretty is saying. I respect that. There comes a different perspective with age, that's all.
It is a different world, even than it was a generation ago.
You know what? I am feeling ancient.
The thing that I'm taking issue with is the assumption that one knows, from birth what one is.
In 1992, I was 19. I was kind of aware of transsexuals, but like Cheetaking, I thought it was something completely unobtainable. I also was still very attracted to women and I thought that, moreover, there isn't any point in transitioning since I already had all the correct bits to love the gender of my choice. In 1995 I met and married my wife. I love her very much and love her very much still, and according to some posters here, I've been lying to my wife all this time.
This is not the case.
I have been lying to myself all this time. This is a very real, and very different difference. If I had thought, when I was 22, that I could transition, I would have. If I had thought that my transsexual thoughts were normal, and not me being stupid and crazy, then I would have told her, but the fact of the matter was, at the time, I did not consider myself transsexual. I considered myself cis-male who was very, very screwed up in the head.
When I finally came to the realization that I wasn't, that it was okay to be trans, that I could achieve what I've been wanting my entire life, I went through two weeks of agony trying to figure out how to tell my wife. I didn't want to lose her, but she needed to know. Is this tearing our family apart? By no means. Is my wife having difficulty accepting this? Indeed. But she still loves me and wants to support me, and she recognized that, when I let my guard down, when I was my true female self, that was the person she fell in love with, and that person had been absent for increasingly longer periods of time.
I never set out to deceive my wife, and the insinuation that I did infuriates me. I plead guilty for deceiving myself, however, and wish I could take that back with all my heart.
Quote from: girl you look fierce on March 08, 2013, 02:08:02 PM
I understand, but just to clarify, I don't think it's fair for a person to assume that because they are old, they know how everyone else feels. I'm not coming forth to criticize people, but a lot of time there is a sentiment here that is not challenged because a large number of MTFs here are older and feel the same way, that if any of the young transitioning MTFs were born in the past, they would have lived like men. Again, that is not fair to assume. :-\ Being old and experienced does not mean those people have been in my shoes, or have had my experiences.
Yes it's 2013. No, the world is still not universally tolerant. Individual families or social groups still put immense pressure on their children to be one thing or another. People used being older and more experienced in the same way before to tell me, a teenager, things about myself that I knew weren't true. It was the same thing. "When you're older you won't be saying you don't want to marry a woman and have kids... you'll understand." I knew that was false then and I know it now and I never lived my life to the contrary. They could not make me into something I'm not, they could only treat me like crap for being myself.
Transsexualism and sexual orientation are two very different things.
If one didn't live during a certain time period they shouldn't assume they know how it was. I would never have presumed to school my Grandparents on how it was during the Great Depression which they actually lived thru from what I had read.
I think we've established that everyone faces different circumstances in life, and that no one can experience life through anothers eyes. I'm going to ask everyone to find another topic to post in, this one is locked. Hugs, Devlyn