I can't seem to do anything with my son without someone judging us. We're at the library in the kids section where it is not against the rules for kids to run around. Keep in mind that I am supervising him the entire time and he is not hurting anyone. He's not even being that loud, just giggling. A guy comes up and tells me that he doesn't want my son running around because he could run into something and get hurt. I told him he was fine (trust me, movement is my son's specialty and the possibility of a minor injury is not a catastrophe to either of us). He got snotty with me and repeated himself. I got annoyed and asked him how he would suggest I stop him. His brilliant response? "I don't know. It's not my job to control him." PRECISELY! It's mine. Why the heck would he think he has the right to over-parent MY son. And how dare he use that as a comeback after he just tried to tell me how to parent my son? I am going to complain about this. That was not cool.
The other week, we went to a travelling zoo and I was trying (and failing) to get my son to sit still to see the lynx, but also avoid getting pounced on (we had just been warned about that). This lady was giving me "the look." Come on, people. You're not satisfied when I'm trying to make him sit down. You're not satisfied when I'm letting him play. Make up your minds! (Generic "you," not anyone here.)
I feel like I am being oversensitive about this one, but it still bugs me. I asked my school counsellor in September where the unisex bathrooms were. The only one he told me about was in a separate building from all my classes. He couldn't seem to understand why I didn't want to use that one. He finally gave me the e-mail of someone to ask in January. This semester, btw, I started living full time officially (aka my teachers call me Victor, but I've technically been full time for longer). So I asked this person which bathrooms to use. I was given a list of unisex bathrooms. I was also told that I am not allowed to use the mens' bathroom. Ouch. Yeah I know. I should be grateful there are unisex bathrooms for me to use at all. Unisex should be fine. A bathroom is a bathroom, so who cares? I don't know why I care. It's not really a big deal that there aren't as many as regular bathrooms and that the ones easiest in terms of position for me to use are at the end of a hallway, around the corner, and in a dark area. But I still feel really uncomfortable with this. I hate not being able to use the bathroom like a regular guy. I hate that whenever I walk to that dark corner, I feel like every step is a reminder that I'm a freak.
Meanwhile, I still haven't heard anything from my doctor, my dysphoria is rising, and I keep making the mistake of reading people's comments on trans stuff.
Um, it is your job to control your child. People have a right to expect that out of you. You want to let him bounce off the walls in your house, that's one thing, in public is another. If your son is frustrating people you meet in passing, there's an issue. And it's not the worlds issue. Sorry, but I think you're wrong on ths one. Hugs, Devlyn
I am sorry you feel my son does not have the right to play in children's play areas under parental supervision where not one person said he was frustrating them.
I'm not taking your sons rights away. Why do you feel the incident happened?
Honestly, I have no idea. I was supervising him the entire time, he stayed in the kids area, it wasn't against the rules, he wasn't being loud, and he wasn't running into anything or anyone. Even if he had fallen down, there wasn't anything dangerous lying around or anything that would have caused more than bruise at worst. If I kept him from doing anything that could result in a bruise, he'd be one messed up kid.
My Mom is a retired librarian. I worked in a library. I haven't seen one with a play area. When you say "it isn't against the rules" what do you mean? There aren't rules about driving bulldozers through ice cream stands, but you can't do it! Is it like a regular library where everyone is expected to remain quiet? I certainly hope you didn't play the "nothing in your rules about it" card. If the library actually allows chipdren to play in it, I have to wonder who thought that would be a good idea.
Then there was another incident, and you acknowledge that quiet was expected, what happened there?
When I say it's not against the rules, I mean it's generally expected and accepted that children play in the children's area. There are children playing almost every time I go.
The rules didn't actually come up at all from either of us.
I don't think it's that unusual for a library but it is the main library, so they often have events going on that aren't necessarily quiet. They have tours in the summer when the cruise ships come in. They also hold events in the children's area. Even when events aren't going on, there are often people reading books out loud to kids and, as I said, there are almost always kids playing. There are also often groups of teenagers in the YA area that are chatting. In other words, there isn't screaming or anything, but there is a certain level of noise. It's also a big library and there are many areas that are quiet. Some areas are designated for quiet, some areas aren't.
The other incident was at a traveling zoo. They brought the lynx out and warned that if kids are running around her, she'll want to play with them, but her version of playing is dangerous to kids. Hence why I was trying to make my son sit still. It wasn't that quiet was expected, but I would rather my son not get pounced on by a lynx. If I had to guess, I'd say I was getting dirty looks because I was holding him in my lap and he was fighting me. We did end up going home early because he wouldn't behave, but that doesn't mean we deserve to be judged just because he's not perfectly behaved all the time. (Btw, I do not let him run wild. We do have rules and boundaries hence why we went home early.)
It sounds like he's a handful. Glad no one ended up as kitty chow! So most times he's OK, it's just when he is pushing the bounds (as they will) that things happen.
Remember, there's a difference between someone reacting to a situation like a child misbehaving, and that same person judging someone. I don't think anyone judged you, they just didn't like the behaviour they were witnessing.
For instance, I'm at the symphony. The performance is marred as little Johnny is dragged out wailing and carrying on. I am asked what I think about it. I will probably say "That little bastard ruined the show." It's not a judgement, it's a reaction. A normal human reaction.
Victor, I have some of the same issues you do about being judged in public for my decisions. I hate it.
For the guy in the library, I know some people who are not steady on their feet and who are very uncomfortable with kids running around because they're concerned they'll trip over the kid and injure themselves or the kid. Doesn't mean the guy handled it well.
As for "the look", I hate that too. I want to yell "what are you staring at!" OTOH one of the advantages you have over indirect passive-aggressive behavior like that is that you get to interpret how you want. You get to assume, if you want, that the lady is angry at everyone in the world who has kids because she wasn't able to have them. Or she's jealous that your little guy is so cute and her kid is a holy terror. Sometimes you can change your inner dialog that kind of behavior triggers and react to it differently.
As for the bathroom issue, YOU ARE NOT BEING OVERSENSITIVE. Not being able to use the men's bathroom is insulting and invalidating. Their forbidding you from using the restroom appropriate to your gender is like saying you're not a "real" man. Every trans guy I've ever met would get his back up about that one. Jeez, could you imagine how quickly the average cis guy would lose his temper if you told him he wasn't a real guy and he had to use the unisex restroom? Yes, you do have to live by their rules, but you certainly don't have to like it.
I can tell you one thing for sure, I hate public restrooms period. If I have to use a public restroom I do like the unisex ones because it is private, I can lock the door, don't have to listen to someone else's bodily function and can clean the seat really good if I have to go that route. I guess the bathroom deal has never really or ever really will bother me.
In a kid's play area it is perfectly normal for them to be kids. Kids are going to run around gonna get louder than they should and so on. So it sounds to me like the guy in the library may have had a chip on his shoulder for whatever reason. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
As for the zoo though and the Lynx, at the first sign of struggle from your son, you should have gotten up and left the area. Yes cats do play like that, but it's not just play, it's how they hunt. That is why there are so many mountain lion maulings on jogging trails and fewer on hiking trails. A lynx isn't that big but will cause some severe damage. In a situation like that follow the instructions of the people handling the animal.
I had a not dissimilar experience with a grandniece in a MacDonalds a few years ago.
She was about 2 years at the time and very active. She went to play in the children's area where a little boy, about her age, was. He was one of these dreamy types. But when my niece came along he perked up, becoming loud and over active. The two began throwing some small sponge balls at each other, but the little boy suddenly began to cry.
His mother went spare and complained to the manager about how this vicious, out of controll child had assaulted her little boy. The parents, (presumably she was referring to me as well as the child's mother!!) were just sitting there, unconcerned!
Next thing you know, we are all being asked to leave MacDonalds!
I kid you not. It was by a long way, the funniest thing that has ever happened.
That niece is about 8 years old now and that is definitely a story to save up for her wedding reception!
Hang in there Victor, I always apply this thought to negative feeling situations, "Tomorrow is yet another day!" It helps me cope. My local library has an entire large room set aside for small children where they have story time and other features to keep them occupied while the parent goes about their business looking for a book or using a computer. I suppose it's because libraries are losing a lot to the Internet and E-readers that they are becoming more innovative family centers.
As for me I have always found it rather infuriating when dining out to have to deal with someone's noisy, out of control kids. On the other hand I did pay the bill and tip for a single parent who brought her little girl to the restaurant where my spouse and I were having lunch. The young woman talked to her child during lunch and the little girl was quiet, respectful and was learning how to behave around adults, I was totally impressed by them both!
As for the restroom issue at your institution, it's a shame that you are dealing with such a backwards bunch of draconian wizards. Keep pushing back, you don't have to lie down and take it!
Quote from: Shantel on March 22, 2013, 10:25:35 AM
As for the restroom issue at your institution, it's a shame that you are dealing with such a backwards bunch of draconian wizards. Keep pushing back, you don't have to lie down and take it!
Yeah, it's one thing at work, but I really thought universities nowadays were more open minded.
The university my wife works at is very open. Its some of the other workers that aren't (including my wife).
Quote from: Edge on March 21, 2013, 09:16:45 PM
We're at the library in the kids section where it is not against the rules for kids to run around.
I'm with Devlyn on this one. Libraries are, by custom and tradition, quiet spaces; they are not places for kids to run around in. I'm sorry, Edge - but running around and giggling (even quietly) is not appropriate behaviour for a library and it is likely to irritate other people.
Quote from: Edge on March 21, 2013, 09:16:45 PM
The other week, we went to a travelling zoo and I was trying (and failing) to get my son to sit still to see the lynx, but also avoid getting pounced on (we had just been warned about that). This lady was giving me "the look."
People will only give you 'the look' if they think your child is behaving inappropriately. Some bad-tempered people do this just because they're mean: I've had old grannies giving me 'the look' because my 8-month-old happened to be crying due to teething. That's unreasonable; a baby can't be expected not to cry if she's in pain. But if your son is older and his behaviour causes people to give you the stinkeye, think about whether his behaviour is appropriate for his age and his abilities. If it is, the problem is with the person giving you 'the look' so you should defend your son to the hilt. If it isn't, you might want to look into your son's behaviour... and defend him by teaching him more appropriate behaviour.
I have given people an earful for giving me 'the look' because they thought my autistic child was behaving inappropriately when she went into meltdown in the middle of a shopping mall. Autistic people can't help going into meltdown (at
any age) and we removed her from the situation as quickly as we could so that she could calm down. But if my non-autistic daughter drew that kind of attention to herself at the same age I would be mortified and I would've agreed with the person giving me the stinkeye. ;)
Quote from: Edge on March 21, 2013, 09:16:45 PM
I was given a list of unisex bathrooms. I was also told that I am not allowed to use the mens' bathroom.
Who are they, the bathroom police?
Check the laws where you live... but most places don't have any regulations about who may use which bathroom; it's usually just a matter of custom. You may also have protection for trans people. If there are no laws saying otherwise, use whatever bathroom you feel comfortable in.
Quote from: Shantel on March 22, 2013, 10:25:35 AM
On the other hand I did pay the bill and tip for a single parent who brought her little girl to the restaurant where my spouse and I were having lunch. The young woman talked to her child during lunch and the little girl was quiet, respectful and was learning how to behave around adults, I was totally impressed by them both!
Just goes to show that it's not the quantity of parents that matters; it's the quality.
As the parent of two quiet, respectful girls - thank you! Yet another reason why you're my favourite Auntie. :)
There have been so many occasions where I've seen people's faces drop when they see us approaching a table with our two kids... but they're stunned when they discover that my girls know how to behave themselves in public.
Quote from: FTMDiaries on March 22, 2013, 12:16:26 PM
Just goes to show that it's not the quantity of parents that matters; it's the quality.
As the parent of two quiet, respectful girls - thank you! Yet another reason why you're my favourite Auntie. :)
Thanks hon!
Quote from: FTMDiaries on March 22, 2013, 12:16:26 PM
There have been so many occasions where I've seen people's faces drop when they see us approaching a table with our two kids... but they're stunned when they discover that my girls know how to behave themselves in public.
Always a great blessing for parents and onlookers alike!
I don't know, maybe I'm just different but unruly kids have never really bothered me. Yeah if they are out and out screaming like a banshee and splitting my eardrums it's kind of irratating and in a situation like that I pity the parents trying to control them. But just average run of the day hyperactive kids, nah, I could care less.
What does bother me though is unruly and overly loud adults in groups acting worst than unruly children because they are the ones that should know better. Bars and clubs are the worst when someone just can't control the amount of alcohol they consume and end up stumbling all over the place and someone ends up wearing the person's drink. Or someone bumps into you and then wants to start a fight over it because in their mind you bumped into them. I don't know but I think we have all experienced this at one time or another. I know I have many times.
Quote from: Jess42 on March 22, 2013, 01:53:28 PM
I don't know, maybe I'm just different but unruly kids have never really bothered me. Yeah if they are out and out screaming like a banshee and splitting my eardrums it's kind of irratating and in a situation like that I pity the parents trying to control them. But just average run of the day hyperactive kids, nah, I could care less.
What does bother me though is unruly and overly loud adults in groups acting worst than unruly children because they are the ones that should know better. Bars and clubs are the worst when someone just can't control the amount of alcohol they consume and end up stumbling all over the place and someone ends up wearing the person's drink. Or someone bumps into you and then wants to start a fight over it because in their mind you bumped into them. I don't know but I think we have all experienced this at one time or another. I know I have many times.
Of course you're referring to my earlier life when someone punched out my younger brother and I went over the table and bounced his head off the dance floor a few times until the bartender whacked him behind the shoulders with a big stick and threw him out. >:-)
Yes that's not nice! Wouldn't and couldn't do that now, besides it's not lady-like behavior. :-*
Quote from: Jess42 on March 22, 2013, 01:53:28 PM
I don't know, maybe I'm just different but unruly kids have never really bothered me.
[...]
What does bother me though is unruly and overly loud adults in groups acting worst than unruly children because they are the ones that should know better.
Generally speaking, they don't know better. Mainly because they started out as those unruly kids that didn't bother you... and nobody took responsibility for correcting their behaviour or instilling a basic respect for other people whilst they were young enough to learn.
Oh, I wanted to add one more thing about the library scenario: I think the library should take some responsibility here. If children are supposed to learn to be quiet and respectful in a library, don't turn it into a play area which encourages them to run around making noise. ;)
Quote from: FTMDiaries on March 22, 2013, 04:45:42 PMand nobody took responsibility for correcting their behaviour or instilling a basic respect for other people whilst they were young enough to learn.
I agree with this. Mind you, I don't think anyone is too old to learn. It's just that it's an adult's responsibility to control their own behaviour.
Of course, there is also the fact that every kid is different and even the most well behaved kids aren't perfect all the time. That doesn't mean the parents aren't teaching them. It just means they're still in the process of teaching them which makes sense when you think about it.
It isn't really the kind of library where everywhere is quiet. There are quiet areas, but other than that, it is a vibrant and eventful part of our community. I honestly have never been to a library that wasn't like this one, so maybe it's a cultural thing.
True, my experiences are with the public libraries here in Weymouth, the public schol system libraries, the Boston public library, the base libraries at every post I served at in the military, and a seminary library. Those ones were quiet, I can't vouch for the rest. Hugs, Devlyn
Except it wasn't against the libraries rules. Kids are allowed and expected to play in the kids area. He also wasn't a librarian.
Quote from: Shantel on March 22, 2013, 02:02:48 PM
Of course you're referring to my earlier life when someone punched out my younger brother and I went over the table and bounced his head off the dance floor a few times until the bartender whacked him behind the shoulders with a big stick and threw him out. >:-)
Yes that's not nice! Wouldn't and couldn't do that now, besides it's not lady-like behavior. :-*
No, no, no. I wasn't implying or referring to anyone or anything. Not even myself ;)
You always have to stick up for yourself and the people your with if pushed too far.
There are places like a Jukejoint that I would totally expect unruliness, extreme drunkeness, fighting and very "unladylike" behavior. Really, it's to be expected and can be quite fun at times. I've seen my fair share of dives and barroom brawls. But then there are the more uptown establishments with soothing music, highend alcohol, candles on the table and a sort of ambiance that is just plain relaxing. Usually when I am at a place lake that, there always seems to be someone, usually of the business type, that has had too much to drink and has to talk over everyone and so on. Like they warped from the local dive to the socially gracious establishment. In a case like that, I will usually point them to or suggest the local biker bar for that type of behavior. Once they think about it, they will usually calm down a little bit. False bravado, don'tcha know.
I just want to pipe up about the library thing because a lot of people don't seem to have experienced the sort of Library you're talking about
My local library also has a child play area...section...thing. Kids most definitely make noise and play in there and it's encouraged, there are areas for quiet but the kids section certainly isn't one of them :P They do all sorts of events, christmas partys and stuff like that. If someone came over to me and asked me to make my kid be quiet while she was playing in that section I'd just laugh in their face.
I totally get the judgement thing, my little one is generally very well behaved but like all kids she has her moments. It's just unfortunate when she decides to have one of those moments at the supermarket checkout or on the bus ::)
Quote from: Jeatyn on April 04, 2013, 05:04:02 PM
I totally get the judgement thing, my little one is generally very well behaved but like all kids she has her moments. It's just unfortunate when she decides to have one of those moments at the supermarket checkout or on the bus ::)
When my eldest son was a little tyke he watched me as I was attaching the pigtail to our new clothes dryer, I managed to take some flesh off my knuckle and was bleeding profusely when I cut loose with the dreaded "F" word. Later as I was carrying him into the local pharmacy he arched his back and started yelling out that word repeatedly. :icon_redface: I handed him to his mother and put some space between us, as you can imagine my name was "Mud" for some time following that event. They want to be good, but sometimes a parent can set them up for a behavioral failure.
Quote from: Shantel on April 04, 2013, 05:59:22 PM
When my eldest son was a little tyke he watched me as I was attaching the pigtail to our new clothes dryer, I managed to take some flesh off my knuckle and was bleeding profusely when I cut loose with the dreaded "F" word. Later as I was carrying him into the local pharmacy he arched his back and started yelling out that word repeatedly. :icon_redface: I handed him to his mother and put some space between us, as you can imagine my name was "Mud" for some time following that event. They want to be good, but sometimes a parent can set them up for a behavioral failure.
Heh. That reminds me of something my eldest daughter once did when she was 3 years old. She'd heard her dad use the phrase 'pee off' (not those exact words, but the stronger version that isn't permitted here) whilst watching a football match on the TV. It must've lodged in her brain, because a couple of days later she was in the front garden at her grandmother's house, playing amongst the flowers whilst her grandmother was chatting to the neighbours. A bee happened to buzz in front of her face and she wanted to make it go away, so she yelled at the top of her voice: "PEE OFF!!!" :o
Her grandmother wasn't too happy with us, especially since she'd said it in front of the neighbours... but I had to admire her ability to pick up new phrases & use them in context. ;D
I am terrible for swearing and I've been really trying my best to not use bad words around my daughter, the last thing I want is a call from the nursery saying she cussed out another kid :-X I've let a few slip and she's copied me, but I just ignore it....I figure if I make a big deal out of a word she'll think it's funny and say it more. So far these slips have only happened inside the house with no witnesses :P It's so hard to come out with "oh fiddle sticks" instead of *cough* "bullocks" when I step on lego pieces :D
Quote from: kkut on April 05, 2013, 10:45:02 AM
:D
Just the other day I was returning home after picking up my kids from school. I changed lanes and this guy who was plenty far back away from me honked at me. It was just a reflex from my early T induced days... but I give him the finger.
My kids immediately jump on that. "What was that???".... "Why did you just do that???" It wasn't initially condemnation, it was more like getting caught with an unwrapped gift, curiosity was abound! So I say... "Oh nothing, I was just wiping a smudge off the window". When I saw they weren't buying it I began to explain that dad was very wrong for doing that blah blah blah... :embarrassed:
I dunnoh, maybe I do need that Orchie after all... ;)
Hah, seems that you are just a real human being after all! ;D
Quote from: kkut on April 05, 2013, 11:12:58 AM
Oh ya... sometimes real... and sometimes just real stupid. ;)
Don't beat up on yourself, you're in good company! Sent you a pm
Yes, Jeatyn, precisely! It's like if someone came up to a parent who's kid was playing normally in a kid designated area where other kids were playing too and saying that their kid shouldn't be playing. Actually, that's exactly what it was.
And yeah, no kid is perfect all the time. Heck, no adult is perfect all the time.