So, have you had people use the word "Brave" when they talk to you about your life?
In the last four weeks I've been called brave by three people who I love and respect. With the final comment happening this morning. And in all three cases their use of the word bothered me because I don't feel brave for starting something without having a choice in what I am. But with each of these persons the conversations became uncomfortable when I said "Thank you, but ....".
Maybe I was wrong to discount the compliment by saying brave individuals have real choices. Or maybe I insulted them by pointing out a flaw in their views of me and other transsexuals. And then maybe I just don't understand what these persons meant, and this is all just a part of my dysphoric perceptions.
Am I wrong to think this way? Do you see bravery in your transition?
Kathy
I really hate being called 'Brave".
Quote from: Ms. O'Brien CVTIt does not take courage or bravery to change your gender. It takes fear of living one more day in the wrong one
Yes, and I freaking hate it.
People have called me brave, for sure, and I agree with them. There is a lot of persecution out there for trans people, and it's not always easy to take this journey - so, in a sense, I'm very brave.
I believe that this bravery is a very ordinary quality, though, among transitioners. It's not very special to me, but I appreciate it when it's acknowledged.
Yes but I don't think I am
I didn't transition because I was brave; I transitioned because I didn't want to commit suicide or wind up in a mental hospital for life. Yes, I have been brave, but certainly not because I transitioned.
I wouldn't say I hate it, but I do feel weird when I'm called brave. It's as though I had a cancer and I was called brave for getting chemotherapy. That's just normal and the only path to feeling better.
.
I love hearing people tell me I'm brave for transitioning. It reminds me that the reason why I'm having problems is because this is HARD.
It sure beats people telling me I'm being selfish or that I'm ruining my daughter's life. I've heard way too much of that.
The "braveness" does not come from transitioning (though I do consider that a courageous act).
As I see it, it is brave to question why you feel the way you do, and to act on those feelings. That is to say, to face yourself, to look yourself in the eye in the mirror, and to accept yourself, for all your quirks and idiosyncrasies.
When you can do that, you can then go on to make the changes you need to make. Sometimes it is transitioning. Sometimes it is not. But hiding yourself away in fear is not living - it is dying a slow death.
I've heard it before and it doesn't bug me at all. I take it as I would any compliment, because that's what it is coming from a cis person. They imagine how they would feel in your shoes, and it scares them thinking about all they would have to go through. Then they look at you and you are going through with it, something they might not even be able to imagine having the throughput for (they probably would if they were actually trans, though). I think one really does have to be strong when transition is in the picture at all, and I think other people easily see that, too.
At the very least, I don't think anyone who tells a trans person they are brave intends to be negative. It's kind of like saying "Well good for you for finding yourself and not being afraid to do what you feel is right". In their head they might even be cheering you on but don't know what to say, and bravery is an easy description.
When you say thanks, "but", you are kind of denying a compliment that someone gave you to make you happy. Good people usually just want you to be happy, that is one of the first things I learned in this process. I just say thanks, and explain that it is indeed a lot of work but the hardest part was just coming out to myself and actually deciding to transition, which now seems like forever ago- the hardest part is over.
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 24, 2013, 07:17:14 PM
I love hearing people tell me I'm brave for transitioning. It reminds me that the reason why I'm having problems is because this is HARD.
It sure beats people telling me I'm being selfish or that I'm ruining my daughter's life. I've heard way too much of that.
^^ this :-)
I always accepted a compliment though, even when some thug would come up and say tauntingly - 'I like your sparkly jumper (or whatever)' I would always smile sweetly and say with a very heartfelt thank you :-) - It made me feel good and they always felt miffed that their insult had the opposite effect :-) It also diffused any stand off I think, rather than rising to a goading.
These people are not trying to insult you though. They are just trying to say it must be really hard, so you be putting up with a lot. Yes they don't understand us. That is not a crime. Accept the compliment and move on :-) Maybe explain you had no choice but gettng annoyed at them for not understanding is a little ridonckulous :-P
Steph :-)
x
I get "brave" quite a bit, and I often think of Ms. OBrien's quote when I hear it.
I dunno. I'm reminded of when the media says someone is a "hero" for something. More often than not, the "hero" isn't comfortable with that moniker themselves. They see it as "Just doing my job" or something else humble.
I think I'm going to try not to be bothered by it anymore. That is unless the context of the word is in something like, "You sure are brave to go outside looking like that!" Other than that, I think these people are just trying to be nice.
I don't think I've been called brave yet, but my friends have said they're proud of me for finally opening up about who I am. I never get tired of hearing that :)
It looks like we all feel a little differently about this, and I'm glad I asked the questions. But it seems best to politely say thank you from now on, and nothing more. I may dislike the word as it applies to me, but as Jenny said our acquaintances probably can't imagine themselves going through this.
I have a cousin, sister, and a very good friend to apologize to.
Thank you girls.
Kathy
I've often been called "brave". I tell them that I appreciate the compliment. From their point of view it is a staggering change (ok, so it is).
But, I tell them, that is was about as brave as running out of a burning building. I could stay as I was and surely die, or I could change. My choices were really down to that.
I appreciate words of encouragement and acceptance from anyone. Both because it feels better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but also it means that they have become enlightened because of me.
It's a little egotistical, I guess, but, what the hey...
-Sandy
I always smile pleasantly and say, "Thank you." Inside, I writhe.
Facing life from day to day as an androgynous person took a certain amount of courage. For a while there, I didn't know when someone would call me a name or chase me out of the women's restroom. I didn't know when I would reach a point of no return and not be able to face life anymore. I hated leaving the house and going out into the world.
At the same time, I was a coward because I feared transition. Once I realized that the old barriers were changing and going away, I was free to take steps toward transition, but I held off because I didn't want to lose my partner. I definitely lived in abject cowardice before transition.
Then, when I was so desperate that transition was pretty much the only reasonable alternative, I was not brave for taking it. I didn't even have to be brave to get through some of the less pleasant aspects of it, such as surgery. What I did, I did because I felt that I had run out of alternatives. I had run out of energy. That's not bravery, that's desperation and exhaustion.
If people want to call it bravery, I don't correct them because they probably wouldn't get it. But I know perfectly well what a coward I am and have been, and I'm uncomfortable when people tell me I'm the opposite.
I think we need to cut some slack towards people who use brave. Their perspective is far different from ours. I have used "Brave" to describe many of the people in my group. Hell, I've used it to describe my wife/gf of 30+ years, 25+ years post-op.
I can very much understand not liking that description. In fact, like others when applied to me and my journey, I go WTF??? I try to see it this way, as an outsider getting a glimpse of the inner realm. No matter what, we ARE undertaking and acting upon a course that is pretty much totally and absolutely frowned upon by most of society.
I call it it as I see it; Twice I chickened out. The opposite of brave. While at the same time I cannot attribute "bravery", especially to myself!, for doing what I need to do today. Yes, it takes some conviction to venture out into the real world presenting as the real you. Yes, you may not be the ideal, nobody is! But to hurting TG people that know you, as well as Cis people, what we do IS, in a sense, brave. Not many people are willing to do it knowing the consequences.
Even though I didn't follow through, for the 1970's I was doing a lot more than others inflicted with being TG in an intolerant world. Me attempting to try, I never saw as being brave. I was picked on most of my life for a myriad of things. Yet I chickened out for that very reason. I wasn't emotionally up to facing a lifetime of the same, and volunteering for it!
Yes, the "Bravery" argument, to us, goes out the window when we are faced with "Transition is just another word for nothing else to loose" (Sorry Janis) But for those not at that point, they see as us brave. Their fear paralyzes them. For cis folks, they cannot imagine what it takes to present as the opposite sex any more than they imagine leading a charge at Verdun
Yes... sometimes. I thank them and shrug it off in my mind. In people I confide in though, I tell them I don't think I'm so brave for just being myself and doing what I want.
Quote from: Sandy on March 24, 2013, 09:19:07 PM
I appreciate words of encouragement and acceptance from anyone. Both because it feels better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, but also it means that they have become enlightened because of me.
It's a little egotistical, I guess, but, what the hey...
-Sandy
It's not egotistical at all to accept a compliment. Actually it is worse not to. When you deny a compliment, you deny the other person's propensity to forward positive energy by returning a dismissive attitude back- rejecting their kindness/effort to bring you to a happier state of mind. When you accept a compliment and show them you appreciate their attention, you are returning the favor of kindness and showing gratitude. It promotes all sorts of good things.
Girls, be happy about yourselves and your choices in life! Be strong, proud women that exude positivity regardless of what you have chosen to undergo. That positivity will only be returned back to you tenfold!
Yes, to snub a compliment isn't nice :-) doesn't really do you any good.
Besides we are brave. I think it's funny that people thought they were the opposite of brave for not transitioning (not brave for sticking with it), then they are the opposite of brave *for* transitioning because they are being themselves.
You are being too hard on yourselves!
Yes you are just being you self. Yes it might be as brave as running from a burning building, but I imagine if ur in a burning building it takes a certain amount of nerve not to hide at the back but instead to run through the flames. I know it took an amount of nerve for me to go out the first time, actually it still does. It's not easy to stand in front of friends and family who may cut you off and tell them u are transitioning, it takes nerve not to back out. Showing a lot of nerve is called being brave. Sure you may not have had much choice, but you only find out how strong you are when you *need* to.
We are often brave. We often have to be.
Steph :-)
X
I've been called brave many times. Is it brave to stay true to yourself in adversity? sure. But I tell these people that it's bravery born of desperation. I transitioned because I found myself one day with a knife to my wrist.
Quote from: Jennygirl on March 25, 2013, 02:47:18 AM
It's not egotistical at all to accept a compliment. Actually it is worse not to. When you deny a compliment, you deny the other person's propensity to forward positive energy by returning a dismissive attitude back- rejecting their kindness/effort to bring you to a happier state of mind. When you accept a compliment and show them you appreciate their attention, you are returning the favor of kindness and showing gratitude. It promotes all sorts of good things.
I've received compliments for things I haven't done, and I think it right and proper to deny credit and redirect the positive energy toward the person who did do the praiseworthy accomplishment. To accept a compliment for something someone else did is, to my mind, dishonest and wrong. I've also received undeserved compliments, but I try to take those more gracefully.
Quote from: Arch on March 25, 2013, 03:39:31 AM
I've received compliments for things I haven't done, and I think it right and proper to deny credit and redirect the positive energy toward the person who did do the praiseworthy accomplishment. To accept a compliment for something someone else did is, to my mind, dishonest and wrong. I've also received undeserved compliments, but I try to take those more gracefully.
That is different I agree, I do the same thing when that happens. But when it comes to transitioning or just being trans in general, it is usually the individual that makes the difference- because it is only you who can make the decision to present yourself the way you see fit and "own it". Unless someone takes you on an amazing shopping spree ;) I always give credit to outfits others have helped me with!
Been called "brave" a number of times.
As soon as it's mentioned, I try to point out that I'm not really brave, just got left without a choice. It's either this, or something much, much worse.
I get courageous all the time suppose it's fitting since I continue on despite being scared. I hate when people tell me I'm so strong that usually gets me riled up pretty good.
Edited for profanity
I take someone calling me brave as an attempt at showing compassion or support or an acknowledgement that society needs to change.
But just because someone calls me brave doesn't make me brave. I'm just being myself, on a par with everyone else in society.
Just because I don't fit in with someone else's view of what is female isn't being brave. I'm not sure what it is, all I'm sure about is that it's not my problem.
.
Quote from: muuu on March 25, 2013, 05:48:36 AM
Hm... I wonder if I just dislike it because the compliment is about being transsexual.
"You're brave" means they see you as an "other" that is doing something you don't have to do, like coloring your hair. It's out of pity and seeing you as somebody with a lot of difficulties, somebody who may never get an acceptable life, or have a life with severely reduced life quality.
Lots of other compliments are not positive. Like: "You look feminine for a transsexual/guy", they are giving you a compliment, but it's directed the wrong way. They're basically accentuating that you're different, transsexual, an other etc, to the point it's no longer a compliment.
Generally, I think, it's better to not give a compliment to somebody with a "handicap" than to give a compliment that they have heard numerous times and are directed at their "handicap". If you give a compliment it shouldn't be directed to their "handicap", but the compliment should be about something unrelated to it. Because people don't like to have their issues rubbed in their face constantly by others as well.
^^^ Very well said.
I get told things like I am brave quite often. I just tell them thank you. Like others have said, it shows they recognize that society has a bleak outlook on transsexualism, and to go against what society deems acceptable is brave. To be your true self, no matter what the cost, no matter what anyone else thinks is a brave thing to do. I also agree with Jenny. Turning away a compliment like that will not help either the giver or the receiver.
Yes I have been told I am brave on a number of occasions. And I actually think that we the trans community are brave. I admire everyone who has the strength to live their lives as they see themselves. I thank those who have paved the way to make transitioning a possability for all of us. And we who are going through it now are hopefully making it easier for those who will follow in our footsteps.
I get it too but don't really understand why. The only brave thing I do is stuff alone like go to clubs or latitude 30. And use to do ic combat medic. But as far as transitioning I don't get how that makes me brave. So like the rest of you I just smile and say thank you
I don't see it as a negative like some of us do though. Maybe some of the people that think we're brave have skeletons in their own closets, and they admire us for living as we see fit, despite what society wants. Also, maybe they don't see us as any less of a woman, they just realize that it takes courage to make the decision to start. I think in a way, it does take courage when you don't understand that it really is a life or death situation.
In an alternative point of view, 40%+ of us just try to kill ourselves... were / are they brave? I don't think so...
I would just take it as a compliment and move one. Easier said then done, I know. I overanalyze everything. but, still, I think people who say this are generally trying to be nice and supportive and most of us need all the support we can get. Plus, when you assume what they are thinking, you make an ASS out of U and ME hehehehe
If you're being called brave in a complimentary manner, just take it for what it is. Most people in any walk of life cannot find the bravery to stand up to the world and be themselves. Those of us able to transition are doing something a lot of cisgender folk have trouble doing every day. We all have different challenges in the world, many people just can't face them... so yes, transition is a brave path in the eyes of many people. Just accept that most people aren't going to understand the intricacies or psychology of that path, take a compliment as a compliment and move on. Telling them you aren't brave probably isn't the best thing to do.
Change scares the heck out of most people. They consider it courageous and daring to try a new hairstyle or a whole new look, or to change careers, or to leave a comfortable position or a home town and go out on one's own.
To make any kind of change out of personal conviction, especially in the face of social or emotional or finacial hardship is considered admirable and highly courageous.
I have been told "you are my hero, because if you can chose to live your life, then it gives me hope that i will one day have the strength and courage to make smaller changes in my own life."
I have seen people take inspiration from my embracing of change. To go back to school, to leave a bad relationship, to come out, to enter therapy, to start dating again, to develop a personal style, to change company policies, to reunite with a loved one.
I've pretty much decided now to take any kind of support from anyone who is actually concerned, and caring. After all it should be easy to let the word "Brave" go by, and it's far better than the friend who said he could live with my "lifestyle choice". That one really stopped me cold on the tracks, and the former friend made it worse by arguing that it was a choice.
Kathy
Quote from: kathy b on March 25, 2013, 01:32:07 PM
I've pretty much decided now to take any kind of support from anyone who is actually concerned, and caring. After all it should be easy to let the word "Brave" go by, and it's far better than the friend who said he could live with my "lifestyle choice". That one really stopped me cold on the tracks, and the former friend made it worse by arguing that it was a choice.
Kathy
Wait, you made a lifestyle choice? So...do you live in a nudist colony now? ;)
If you're still alive and transitioning/ned, then by definition you're brave ;)
Quote from: Saffron on March 25, 2013, 02:11:51 PM
If you're still alive and transitioning/ned, then by definition you're brave ;)
I guess your right :) but I have ninja skills . No one can take me down
Quote from: kathy b on March 25, 2013, 01:32:07 PM
I've pretty much decided now to take any kind of support from anyone who is actually concerned, and caring. After all it should be easy to let the word "Brave" go by, and it's far better than the friend who said he could live with my "lifestyle choice". That one really stopped me cold on the tracks, and the former friend made it worse by arguing that it was a choice.
Kathy
Well... it kinda is. Be miserable living a lie or not. Why anybody has a problem with not is beyond me...
Quote from: Brooke777 on March 25, 2013, 01:47:43 PM
Wait, you made a lifestyle choice? So...do you live in a nudist colony now? ;)
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on March 25, 2013, 03:00:09 PM
Well... it kinda is. Be miserable living a lie or not. Why anybody has a problem with not is beyond me...
He kept telling me I have a choice in everything. Wine, beer, cars and jobs. It really didn't matter what I said because his mind was made up. The only time he called after that was when he needed help fixing something in his house. I've ignored him for two months, and just don't want to talk to him anymore.
Kathy
It's kinda easy to get rid of people like that, isn't it? Funny how you thought before transition it would be so hard but when the time comes your way of thinking about them completely changes.
Quote from: Alainaluvsu on March 25, 2013, 03:00:09 PM
Well... it kinda is. Be miserable living a lie or not. Why anybody has a problem with not is beyond me...
Or to expound on it: We don't have a choice on whether we're Trans. We have a choice on what we
do about it. I would be offended if somebody told me I was being brave for being Trans, but not if they were recognizing some action I had done that is, quite frankly, scary to do. Like coming out. I think coming out
is a brave thing to do, because you're opening yourself to hurt, and it takes courage to do so.
I been called brave, and simular things due to being trans,
I dont feel very brave even when its ment as a compliment, but on the other hand I feel most of the people who gives me those compliments are people who still are in the closet at a point so for them im brave cause im out as myself and there not. :P
Yes too many times. And I dont like it because it makes it sound as if I had a choice. It wasnt!
I've never really understood it when people have called me brave for one reason or another, trans related or not
It has always been a bit confusing to me because I don't consider myself brave and usually it has been the result of my being scared to death and just handling a situation as best as I could
I understand that it is usually meant as a compliment when someone says you are brave, but I don't like it much because it makes me feel somewhat embarrassed for some reason
Quote from: kathy b on March 25, 2013, 04:23:59 PM
He kept telling me I have a choice in everything. Wine, beer, cars and jobs. It really didn't matter what I said because his mind was made up. The only time he called after that was when he needed help fixing something in his house. I've ignored him for two months, and just don't want to talk to him anymore.
Kathy
Haha, I suppose you do have a choice at least in the same way he chooses to live as a man! :-)
(I am not *really* agreeing with him if you read that how I said it in my head!)
I've never been called brave. My family never reall says they're proud, and are rather stingy with compliments, so when my friend, who is a manly man who was originally against my transition, told me he was proud of me, I broke down crying.
Quote from: Damian on March 26, 2013, 05:41:45 PM
I've never been called brave. My family never reall says they're proud, and are rather stingy with compliments, so when my friend, who is a manly man who was originally against my transition, told me he was proud of me, I broke down crying.
My family too. It made me the opposite.
I recently came out to my family and I got a few "your brave to tell us" and "it was very courageous to do this" ad I don't see that as a negative at all, I see that as them recognising how hard it was for me to put myself out there and at their scrutiny. I agree that transitioning on one hand isn't brave cos to us it's not a choice but at the same time I know a lot of people who I wouldn't imagine would be able to do what I have done or go through with transitioning.
Quote from: Saffron on March 25, 2013, 02:11:51 PM
If you're still alive and transitioning/ned, then by definition you're brave ;)
Very true!
I'm funny about some words, I've never really like "proud" cos it denotes an expectation and if that expectation wasn't met then would there be shame? Anyway, I'll try not get caught up in semantics! unrelated topic!
When I told my Dad that I had notified work he said:
Dad - "So you're really going through with this?"
Me - "Ya..."
Dad - "Well, you're very brave."
Me - "ok, well I don't see myself as brave."
and that was my first being called brave. Somehow I think he thought I was going to chicken out on transition ::) :P.
Interesting. I was doing a Q&A with a college class last week where I gave them permission to ask me anything and they did...one even asked to see my vagina in the interests os science. I found it humorous and ultimately enjoyed the experience of talking with a bunch of cis folk about what it means to me to be trans and how it has affected my life.
At the end of the class, the professor told me how he thought I was very brave. I told him I'm used to working in front of students and he clarified that I was brave to have transitioned. I downplayed it, like I do, because generally, I don't see self-preservation as an act of bravery. At the same time, thinking about it, some of the bravest heroes in history and fiction have often acted in self-preservation and we call them brave.
Am I brave, she that not only bears, but invites the whips and scorns of time, the oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely?
Well, yes. I am. I say to the world that my survival is worthy and worthy on my terms and damn those who think I should have done differently. I stand up and I say that I am a person of value and deserve a chance to live my very best life and, by doing so, hopefully show others that they, too, can risk to be who they are, to live authentically.
So if someone says that I am brave, I nod, smile, and say, "Thank you very much."
I'm glad they can see the truth and speak it.
N.J.
Quote from: NJade on March 27, 2013, 11:18:33 PM
Interesting. I was doing a Q&A with a college class last week where I gave them permission to ask me anything and they did...one even asked to see my vagina in the interests os science. I found it humorous and ultimately enjoyed the experience of talking with a bunch of cis folk about what it means to me to be trans and how it has affected my life.
At the end of the class, the professor told me how he thought I was very brave. I told him I'm used to working in front of students and he clarified that I was brave to have transitioned. I downplayed it, like I do, because generally, I don't see self-preservation as an act of bravery. At the same time, thinking about it, some of the bravest heroes in history and fiction have often acted in self-preservation and we call them brave.
Am I brave, she that not only bears, but invites the whips and scorns of time, the oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely?
Well, yes. I am. I say to the world that my survival is worthy and worthy on my terms and damn those who think I should have done differently. I stand up and I say that I am a person of value and deserve a chance to live my very best life and, by doing so, hopefully show others that they, too, can risk to be who they are, to live authentically.
So if someone says that I am brave, I nod, smile, and say, "Thank you very much."
I'm glad they can see the truth and speak it.
N.J.
Haha this is true. I have also had people to ask me if the can see my vagina and boobs from both men and women
Quote from: MaidofOrleans on March 27, 2013, 10:16:20 PM
When I told my Dad that I had notified work he said:
Dad - "So you're really going through with this?"
Me - "Ya..."
Dad - "Well, you're very brave."
Me - "ok, well I don't see myself as brave."
and that was my first being called brave. Somehow I think he thought I was going to chicken out on transition ::) :P.
I think a lot of parents have the same problem as everyone else when it comes to understanding how we are compelled to change. My wife said a similar thing as we drove to my sons house to talk to both of our boys. There was something said about bravery, and then she made an odd comment like "You'd better be right about this." Huh! No Sh*t.
Kathy