Hello. I have just joined this forum just now to look for some support. I don't know where to start. I am in deep pain. I can't see a solution right now. I have always felt I was born in the wrong gender. I have always identified as a woman, so there is and there hasn't been any doubt about my gender identity, however, I am thinking about detransitioning, not because I was happy living as a man, but because living as an unpassable transsexual is the worst experience imaginable especially after you have done everything in your power to pass. Now, before anybody says that I have unrealistic expectations. I didn't want to look like a Barbie, I didn't want to look like a supermodel, I just wanted to look like a normal woman and go about my life unmolested. Before my transition, therapists, doctors, people in the community convinced me that a) I could be very passable with some work b) living as a woman would make me feel very happy. None of those things happened. I had hair removal on my face, have been on hormones and several surgeries including rounds of FFS. I went to the most expensive FFS surgeon in the world and he made certain things worst. For instance, he botched my hairline and nose, I had to go under the knife again to make him correct his mistakes at my expense and he hasn't been able to do that. My hairline, now, is one of my biggest problems and he had the nerve to tell me to wear bangs after I spent a fortune. Also, that is not realistic in the long run since women have to be able to wear their hair in a ponytail.
But I am digressing. I want to detransition because there are millions of things I can't do as a woman, due to my unpassability. Hormones are definitely overrated. They gave me the typical female flaws (cellulite, weight gain, slow metabolism) without correcting the male characteristics. The problem is that these 3 years full time as a woman have been the unhappiest years of my life, even worse than when I was living as a male. At least, when I was living as a male, I didn't have to worry about going to a public place and being mocked, ridiculed, harassed, threatened like it happens now.
It sucks, it really does...
Quote from: unpassable on March 31, 2013, 04:13:32 PM
Hello. I have just joined this forum just now to look for some support. I don't know where to start. I am in deep pain. I can't see a solution right now. I have always felt I was born in the wrong gender. I have always identified as a woman, so there is and there hasn't been any doubt about my gender identity, however, I am thinking about detransitioning, not because I was happy living as a man, but because living as an unpassable transsexual is the worst experience imaginable especially after you have done everything in your power to pass. Now, before anybody says that I have unrealistic expectations. I didn't want to look like a Barbie, I didn't want to look like a supermodel, I just wanted to look like a normal woman and go about my life unmolested. Before my transition, therapists, doctors, people in the community convinced me that a) I could be very passable with some work b) living as a woman would make me feel very happy. None of those things happened. I had hair removal on my face, have been on hormones and several surgeries including rounds of FFS. I went to the most expensive FFS surgeon in the world and he made certain things worst. For instance, he botched my hairline and nose, I had to go under the knife again to make him correct his mistakes at my expense and he hasn't been able to do that. My hairline, now, is one of my biggest problems and he had the nerve to tell me to wear bangs after I spent a fortune. Also, that is not realistic in the long run since women have to be able to wear their hair in a ponytail.
But I am digressing. I want to detransition because there are millions of things I can't do as a woman, due to my unpassability. Hormones are definitely overrated. They gave me the typical female flaws (cellulite, weight gain, slow metabolism) without correcting the male characteristics. The problem is that these 3 years full time as a woman have been the unhappiest years of my life, even worse than when I was living as a male. At least, when I was living as a male, I didn't have to worry about going to a public place and being mocked, ridiculed, harassed, threatened like it happens now.
It sucks, it really does...
I am sorry about your experiences. Detransition is not the end of the world. If you will be happier living with your old presentation, then be happy. That's my goal - being able to be comfortable with myself. I'm not MtF, more like MtA(f), but I understand your distress.
Have you considered a more androgynous presentation?
Kia Ora,
I'm with Jamie on this
Quote from: Jamie D on March 31, 2013, 04:20:55 PM
I am sorry about your experiences. Detransition is not the end of the world. If you will be happier living with your old presentation, then be happy. .
Have you considered a more androgynous presentation?
Also are there any support groups close to where you live ?
Are you seeing a counsellor ?
Metta Zenda :)
Hi, welcome to Susan's Place, do you have a name we can use? We're a "get to know each other" type of community! You aren't alone in detransitioning, people find themselves in different circumstances. Grab some cookies and a comfy chair, hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: unpassable on March 31, 2013, 04:13:32 PM
At least, when I was living as a male, I didn't have to worry about going to a public place and being mocked, ridiculed, harassed, threatened like it happens now.
It sucks, it really does...
Yes. Sounds awful.
I know quite a few non-passable transgender women. None of them has had an experience like yours. I've gone out a bunch of time as a non-passable woman and gotten stares, but never anything worse.
Makes me wonder whether there are ways you can eliminate the threats, mocking, harassment and ridicule. What part of the world do you live in? Is it possible to set a long term goal of moving to a more tolerant locale? Are there other trans women you can connect with who might know of more friendly places for a trans woman to frequent?
Good luck. I hope things work out better whichever way you decide to go.
This thread is heart breaking. I'm so sorry and I wish I knew how to say anything that would help you.
Dear sisters,
thank you very much for your support. It makes me feel a little better. My name is Maria. Now, it's not that I will be happier living as a male, I have to choose the least painful route and have to be pragmatic. I realized that transition is difficult mainly from a practical perspective. There are millions of things I can't do because of my lack of passability including but not limited to going to a gym and I can't function like a normal human being. Was it all worth it? SRS doesn't make a difference: whether you had it or not, it's not what makes you passable to other people. So, I am not even going to spend time talking about SRS. I know people who have had SRS and live as males, because they don't pass as females. SRS resolves anatomical dysphoria.
It doesn't happen everyday to get threatened, thank God, there are very nice people out there, but threats, harassment, ridicule, name calling have happened way too many times and I am afraid to get out of the house. Even if they don't threaten and strangers elbow and giggle saying "that's a man!", it hurts a lot. Sometimes I spend 4 or 5 days at home without going out at all, for fear of being confronted. I live like a hermit and I have been made feel like a monster. Rest assured that I have done EVERYTHING in my power to pass. I am not talking about attractiveness, I couldn't care less about that. I am talking about being perceived as a normal woman and not like a man in a dress or some sort of freak. Believe it or not, I have had some gay guys embarrass and out me. I thought of all the people gays were going to be supportive? Big mistake! But that's a topic for a different thread. Now I want ideas on how to live my everyday life.
I am angry at my therapists and at the surgeon who did my FFS. My therapists all said that I look passable and told me what I wanted to hear. Then I have to go out and face a harsh reality. I wish therapists were more realistic. My therapists said that the best trick to pass is to look at how genetic women of my age, race and social status dress and dress the same. Biggest mistake ever: genetic women haven't gone through male puberty so they don't have my physical challenges. Just because genetic women are wearing a particular item, it doesn't mean it will look good on me. So, I dress to pass, mostly. I try to avoid scrutiny and keep a very low key. But I still get read too many times.
Regarding my FFS, that was my biggest disappointment. I went to the best and most expensive FF surgeon in the world. He guaranteed me that my face was going to be passable. He said that he couldn't make me pretty (again, I don't care), but he said that my face was going to be passable. My face, after several operations, is still very manly and is my biggest give away. It is exactly my face, more than anything else, that is unpassable. Hormones haven't help either. My surgeon says that his goal is to have you being called ma'am by the postman when you open the door in the morning without a drop of make up. I know that it's my face, 100% sure. My hairline is a mess, my nose too and he screwed up my chin. So, what to do know?
When I dress with huge hoodies and baseball hats, I get less problems, but, can I think about spending the rest of my life in hoodies and baseball caps when it's hot outside? Not being able to go to social events or interact with people like a normal human being. When I complained, my surgeon said that I look like a genetic woman and can't believe that I get so many problems. He told me to wear bangs, cover my face with hair and wear scarves. You have no idea how much money I gave him and to hear that from him, after I gave him all that money, was more painful than being harassed.
I mean, seriously, can I go around with my hair hiding my face like an idiot?
If I may something...it sounds like you put a lot of faith in professionals, and maybe turned off your own critical thinking skills.
If my the*apist said to wear the clothes (or clothing styles) that cis-women of my age, race, and social strata wear, I'd consider it, but realize that since they have hips, while I have shoulders (and in my case, a gut), that I could NOT wear what they are wearing...so I would have to create my own style, comparable to, but not the same, as what they were.
Likewise, buying the services of "the best surgeon in the world" (by whose definition? His own? They don't exactly have contests for this sort of thing) is not the best idea. FFS is art, and it's important that the artist listen to, and respect, your goals. That's why you should interview as many as it takes until you find one that makes you comfortable...not because he's the most expensive.
And finally, it sounds like you're being bullied by adults. Did you not think that might happen? What was your plan for dealing with that? And just like in school, the way to reduce bullying is to walk like you own the place. They say something, walk up to them and address the issue. If you duck and run, you will do that all the time, even when bullies aren't around. This sends out a "vibe" that says, "I'm an easy target for your ridicule."
Better find your spine, you'll need it as a man, too.
There are many cis women who have a masculine face. Bea Arthur comes to mind. She even had a masculine voice.
Because we did not start prepubescent with our HRT, we are more or less limited as to our outcome. I may not be the prettiest, or the most passable, but I am still a woman. And that is what is important for me.
Hang in there sis.
As someone who is post SRS female identifying but prefers to go back and forth from an androgynous middle due to where in the world I live, travel and hang out (think ultra conservative for a few months then ultra liberal for a few months, rinse and repeat), I have a few ideas...
Can you change your location? As a long term goal? There are a few places in the US especially where you won't draw any attention believe me. There are some obvious ones, but my very very favorite is new orleans. The queer (especially queer girl) community is super strong there. As nice as the idea of changing where you live into something better is, some places are beyond help and are very unhealthy for lgbtq people. That's a fact. I assume you're in such a region, because if you were in most inner cities even, you would not be such a spectacle (as you claim you are, I don't mean to be rude). San fran, west coast, Asheville NC, New Orleans, Austin and San Antonio, NY... there are heaps of great places where you can not only feel accepted, but meet a lot of very cool people who don't think anything is strange about you at all.
Clothes... androgyny is your friend. All of my clothes are women's clothes, but some / majority of them are butchy, where you still feel feminine but can be read as male by the way you talk, walk, etc. For hiding breasts when out in the summer (if you want to do that), easy trick is a fairly snug seamless bra (sports, or like this one http://www.amazon.com/Sexy-Microfiber-Single-Strap-Sports/dp/B002QEVOJO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364794388&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=undermoments+microfiber (http://www.amazon.com/Sexy-Microfiber-Single-Strap-Sports/dp/B002QEVOJO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364794388&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=undermoments+microfiber)), a slim graphic T shirt on top, and a very light thin open button shirt on top with the sleeves rolled up a bit. Looks great, and hides titties even better. :) Make sure you're dressing appropriate for your age.... I've known some T girls who were fifty or sixy, dressing like twenty year olds... NO fifty year old cisfemale is going to look anything but silly dressing like that. I'm not sayin you are, just something to double check... If you need a little compression, try this Underworks undershirt... it looks like the outline of a standard undershirt, so... ( http://www.amazon.com/Underworks-Microfiber-Active-3-Pack-Large/dp/B00BJOLC94/ref=sr_1_17?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1364795457&sr=1-17&keywords=underworks (http://www.amazon.com/Underworks-Microfiber-Active-3-Pack-Large/dp/B00BJOLC94/ref=sr_1_17?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1364795457&sr=1-17&keywords=underworks))
Speaking of which, stuff in your head... it is very easy to think everyone in the world is staring at you sometimes... sometimes it's even true.... I was walking alone the other day toward a government building in my city (in the very conservative country) and approached a bus stop packed with people crowding the whole sidewalk etc. I wasn't dressed particularly andro that day because I didn't expect a lot of scrutiny, so I had hung some giant silver twisty earrings, a few rings and a nice necklace, had my hair down, skinny jeans, a little eye makeup and lip gloss...lol, not exactly andro that day :) Dammed if every single person didn't stop their conversation and one by one look over to watch my approach. I was a good 100 feet away from them, not a dam thing to do but straighten my back, put on a confident smile, and stride straight through. Confidence goes a long way.... I was laughing to myself after a while. BUT most of the time, people don't do that, you just THINK they do because you know your secret. Frankly, some people will stare rudely at anyone who is different (super tall, super short, too fat, too skinny, ugly by their standard, hot by their standard, any physical issue of difference, walking funny, laughing funny, wearing something weird etc)...
Another example: looking in the mirror, I (and a lot of us) never think my face looks all that female, and worry about that; I still see the little boy and the man I had grown up to be for so many years. Well, I ran into an old, fairly good acquaintance I had worked with/known well but hadn't seen for about 2 years this christmas at a party. I was dressed more male than anything... I ran up and very happily said Hi!! How are you?? She smiled absently, nodded, and walked away. Snubbed, thought I, she's angry because I hadn't been in touch.... well, she comes back ten minutes later, and very tentatively says, sorry, dear, but you look just like an old friend of mine... to which I said, yeah, that's me! :) Point is, you still see that maleness you grew up with, but strangers might not. Again, confidence helps at least you feel better.
Since I hear a little lack of confidence in your post, I'd also double check you're doing your makeup right as well.... as you prolly know, that stuff is magic, but only if you use it like a cisfemale... tons of good youtubes on how to hide/enhance any feature you might have.
As far as bangs go, a lot of MTFs have to wear bangs because they started later in life, and have that Mshaped hairline.... HRT won't replenish that as much as people claim, so.... Hair transplants have gotten so amazing though they are indistinguishable from the real thing.... check that out if you need a little filler. Amazing stuff; although I have no experience with it, I did research it once.
If money is not a huge obstacle, you could try the Facial Team in Spain to judiciously revise your FFS? I hear they are extremely good. http://facialteam.eu/facial-feminization-surgery/our-centers/spain/ (http://facialteam.eu/facial-feminization-surgery/our-centers/spain/)
BUT there is nothing wrong with detransitioning, either. Everyone has to do what they have to do to be able to sleep at night. I just couldn't imagine sleeping well doing that after about three years of HRT. Let alone my SRS lol... Just detransition your wardrobe a little for a while until you get your confidence back?
Sorry for the stream of consciousness reply.... hope there's a nugget or two you can use!
Good luck...
Where do you live? Maybe try moving somewhere more accepting?
The problem might be things you aren't considering also. You say it is your face... but... I have known a LOT of "masculine" looking women, and they don't face what you are describing.
I don't pass a lot either, but I haven't had any problems (a couple stares, but never what you are describing).... then again, I live in LA, so a little better than some parts of the country.
CAVEAT:
I'm not you, I haven't had your experiences, don't have a clue where you live, I don't share your reality therefore it's not for me to judge you on your decisions.
But I will share my thoughts and feelings on the basis of what you have posted.
For the record I'm rather large, MtF, don't always pass and I'm openly transgendered. I live on a council estate in South London.
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but you know passing isn't the holy grail of transitioning. Do you seriously think that those who do pass somehow get to transition without any of the problems? I doubt it.
And do you know what? Passing isn't just about how you look. It's also got quite a lot to do with how you project and what energy you give off to other people when you're out there in the wider world.
Most of the times when I've been clocked or read usually it's times when I haven't really bothered or I've stood in front of the mirror with all my cosmetics out of the bag and said 'Sod it!'
Thing is, because I haven't always passed, and people round here on the estates know one another, word gets round and I've got a bit of a reputation. So yes there are times I get the s->-bleeped-<-s, the nudges, the 'that's a man' or 'man woman' or 'batty man' and God knows what else (I admit half the time I'm not listening).
You know what? I feel for these people. I really do. Firstly because if you have to laugh at someone else's appearance then you have a mental age of around 13.
Another thing, if they think - despite the fact that I'm transitioning, despite the fact that I openly declare I'm transgendered, and despite the fact that I continually present as a female - if they think I'm a man then they have far bigger gender issues than I have.
Another thing is if they feel that people like you and me need their attention then they must lead somewhat boring, empty lives. I can't imagine what it must be like to be continually disturbed and frightened by things which don't conform to the norm.
Why are you letting idiots like this determine what you do in your life?
Oh please don't get me wrong. I was scared too at the start. I thought they were going to attack me. Then when a few times passed and I didn't get beat up I figured that these are the sort of people who will shout out abuse from a distance because they're scared of you. I've had a few things thrown at me, but nobody has ever come up to me and attacked me.
I know that they're real people who say real words and such words convey real power which causes real pain and hurt.
But the words only hurt because they feed into your doubts and anxieties. The words would really only hurt you if there was any truth in them.
But see, they're only calling you a man because they're too thick or too stupid to understand what trans really is. It's way off their radar, beyond the confines of their comprehension, outside the limits of their understanding of people.
Sure it's unpleasant having people call you stuff, but I've since disempowered these people so they can't really hurt me any more. They might as well call me a sheep, a donkey, a loaf of bread for all the power their words have over me.
Bottom line you see, I know myself better than anyone else. I know I'm trans, I know it's the way I am, nothing these people can say can change that.
So I just ignored them. Just completely blanked them, zoned them out, the voices register but they don't exist. Ghosts.
Guess what? They shut up. No doubt moved onto their next victim, a woman in a wheelchair, a bald man, who cares?
I take it none of your specialists in all the changes they were recommending ever suggested that you needed a thicker skin?
It's something which is necessary if you're not as passable, not as slim, not as attractive.
Just my 0.02. Like I say I'm not you, haven't had your experiences, don't have your personality, I don't share your reality. But if you're letting a bunch of idiots dictate to you what you do in your life all I'm suggesting is that you take a step back and think about this.
Okay. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my thread, but I ask you to avoid sarcasm and don't try being a smart *ss in this thread.
Do you really believe I turned off my thinking skills? Really? When it comes to transition, we are not objective. We can't possibly be objective. We either tend to be overly critical or delusional. In fact, that is why I see many transsexuals walking around convinced that they pass when they don't and people are reading them as books. So, it is only logical to expect help from professionals who cater specifically to transsexuals.
I consulted with all major FF surgeons in the US and then decided to go with the "best". Of course they don't have a contest for that, but by "the best" I mean the one who created face feminization surgery, the one who has been doing it for the longest time and the one who has had the highest success rate.
As far as clothes are concerned, it has become almost a common place in the transsexual community to say "don't dress like a teenager, dress your age". I know dozens of transsexuals who dress their age and dress appropriately and get clocked. None of them dress like a teenager or a drag queen. So, the dressing thing is definitely overrated. If people clock is because of bone structure (face and body), whether we like it or not.
Regarding bullies, should I go around fighting and confronting everyone who stares at me or giggles or says "that's a man?" What kind of life would that be? I was like that at the beginning of my transition, not anymore.
PS: for those who asked, I am from Las Vegas
Quote from: Beth Andrea on March 31, 2013, 11:46:51 PM
If I may something...it sounds like you put a lot of faith in professionals, and maybe turned off your own critical thinking skills.
If my the*apist said to wear the clothes (or clothing styles) that cis-women of my age, race, and social strata wear, I'd consider it, but realize that since they have hips, while I have shoulders (and in my case, a gut), that I could NOT wear what they are wearing...so I would have to create my own style, comparable to, but not the same, as what they were.
Likewise, buying the services of "the best surgeon in the world" (by whose definition? His own? They don't exactly have contests for this sort of thing) is not the best idea. FFS is art, and it's important that the artist listen to, and respect, your goals. That's why you should interview as many as it takes until you find one that makes you comfortable...not because he's the most expensive.
And finally, it sounds like you're being bullied by adults. Did you not think that might happen? What was your plan for dealing with that? And just like in school, the way to reduce bullying is to walk like you own the place. They say something, walk up to them and address the issue. If you duck and run, you will do that all the time, even when bullies aren't around. This sends out a "vibe" that says, "I'm an easy target for your ridicule."
Better find your spine, you'll need it as a man, too.
Quote from: StellaB on April 01, 2013, 02:27:09 AM
Why are you letting idiots like this determine what you do in your life?
...if you're letting a bunch of idiots dictate to you what you do in your life all I'm suggesting is that you take a step back and think about this.
Yikes, how did I forget to include this?? Absolutely spot on advice, maybe the most important.
Quote from: GendrKweer on April 01, 2013, 01:00:40 AM
Clothes... androgyny is your friend. All of my clothes are women's clothes, but some / majority of them are butchy, where you still feel feminine but can be read as male by the way you talk, walk, etc. For hiding breasts when out in the summer (if you want to do that), easy trick is a fairly snug seamless bra (sports, or like this one http://www.amazon.com/Sexy-Microfiber-Single-Strap-Sports/dp/B002QEVOJO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364794388&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=undermoments+microfiber (http://www.amazon.com/Sexy-Microfiber-Single-Strap-Sports/dp/B002QEVOJO/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364794388&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=undermoments+microfiber)), a slim graphic T shirt on top, and a very light thin open button shirt on top with the sleeves rolled up a bit. Looks great, and hides titties even better. :) Make sure you're dressing appropriate for your age.... I've known some T girls who were fifty or sixy, dressing like twenty year olds... NO fifty year old cisfemale is going to look anything but silly dressing like that. I'm not sayin you are, just something to double check... If you need a little compression, try this Underworks undershirt... it looks like the outline of a standard undershirt, so... ( http://www.amazon.com/Underworks-Microfiber-Active-3-Pack-Large/dp/B00BJOLC94/ref=sr_1_17?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1364795457&sr=1-17&keywords=underworks (http://www.amazon.com/Underworks-Microfiber-Active-3-Pack-Large/dp/B00BJOLC94/ref=sr_1_17?s=apparel&ie=UTF8&qid=1364795457&sr=1-17&keywords=underworks))
Hi, can you please show me some examples of a graphic T-shirt with a light thin open button shirt? If you have some links to images, that would be fantastic.
Regarding androgynous presentation. Despite what my therapists and all professionals I have consulted (Including doctors who work with transsexuals) have told me, I pass better as a woman when I am dressed manly. Isn't it strange? What I do is I put unisex sweatpants and loose hoodies and a baseball cap and I get ma'amed most of the times. So, that is my escape, but, I can't wear those clothes all the time, especially when it's hot outside. I fell safer in those clothes because they are not overtly masculine and not overtly feminine, so, I let people decide if I am a man or a woman. By contrast, when I am dressed unambiguously feminine, have my hair down and make up, that's when people like saying "that's a man". If I dress androgynously, I spoil their fun and they can't say "that's a man" because, at the end of the day, I am not dressed as a woman, so, what's the point of saying "that's a man"? The worst they can say is "is it a man or a woman?"
I know how people feel on this forum that I shouldn't care and I shouldn't let idiots rule my life, but it's easier said than done. I was expecting difficulties but not all these difficulties.
Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 02:49:10 AM
Okay. I appreciate you taking the time to answer my thread, but I ask you to avoid sarcasm and don't try being a smart *ss in this thread.
Do you really believe I turned off my thinking skills? Really? When it comes to transition, we are not objective. We can't possibly be objective. We either tend to be overly critical or delusional. In fact, that is why I see many transsexuals walking around convinced that they pass when they don't and people are reading them as books. So, it is only logical to expect help from professionals who cater specifically to transsexuals.
I'm neither overly critical or delusional.. I don't think I pass 70% of the time - however the reactions of others tell me I do.
QuoteI consulted with all major FF surgeons in the US and then decided to go with the "best". Of course they don't have a contest for that, but by "the best" I mean the one who created face feminization surgery, the one who has been doing it for the longest time and the one who has had the highest success rate.
I'll not comment about FFS, as I have done little research about it and the various surgeons. It's not something I've ever felt the need for.
QuoteAs far as clothes are concerned, it has become almost a common place in the transsexual community to say "don't dress like a teenager, dress your age". I know dozens of transsexuals who dress their age and dress appropriately and get clocked. None of them dress like a teenager or a drag queen. So, the dressing thing is definitely overrated. If people clock is because of bone structure (face and body), whether we like it or not.
Here's a tip, if you are dressed right, move right, talk right, etc, most people will never 'clock' you. In my experience, the only people who look at at trans people close enough to notice are other trans people. Don't get me wrong, I have the odd (almost none) person laugh or comment, but I ignore them. Attitude and confidence have been key for me - without them I'd be a miserable wreck.
QuoteRegarding bullies, should I go around fighting and confronting everyone who stares at me or giggles or says "that's a man?" What kind of life would that be? I was like that at the beginning of my transition, not anymore.
PS: for those who asked, I am from Las Vegas
Like I said previously, ignore them and move on. They are the ones with a problem - not you.
To Maria,
I feel a pain in my heart to read your story.
May I please share with you my thoughts.
I am a 51 yr old MTF now 1 year on my HRT.
I am 6 feet tall and 200 lbs in weight.
I have had no hair removal and no FFS. I am peniless and jobless and almost friendless myself.
On top of it all, I am a Christian and within my LGBTQ community, I am a minority within a minority.
Reading your story, these thoughts come to mind...
A person is 3 things;
1) who they think they are
2) who others think they are
3) who they truly are.
When I am clocked 'male', I used to feel bad that I didn't 'pass' as a woman.
Today when this happens, I see it this way. The person who is cruel towards me does not pass as a decent human being that day.
Whatever people will say or think, I am happy I am not them. I get to be me and not them.
They are living in a mental prisonworld and they are their own jailors.
When a person gives themself permission to live life, as you have, there will be true freedom.
This freedom will, and I do mean will glow within you.
Positive energy will radiate from you. It will, and it cannot be defeated.
Negative energy can never prevail over positive energy.
Hatred can never prevail over love.
You love and let the haters hate.
Perhaps they are unaware of the wise old saying that states,
'hatred only destroys the one holding it.'
People worth knowing in this world are the people who see into the heart and soul.
You will find them and they will find you.
The others are only a backdrop. Those ones have not sorted themselves out yet.
Also, I have decided to, and I encourage you also, to give the benefit of the doubt to those stone-faced onlookers.
They may not even be aware of what their faces look like.
They may be looking straight at us yet their mind may be miles away in other thought.
They themselves, for all we know, may be Trans, and are secretly admiring your tremendous strength,
and thinking about their own futures. Do not discount this possibility.
Yes, even outspoken haters may themselves be dealing with gender issues.
Keep walking. Return hatred with a smile. Never fuel their hatred with hatred or despair.
Forgive them.
We are all teachers. We are all torch holders and it is up to every one of us to remember
that we are legion.
Let us then hold our heads high and smile at the world and spread infectious happiness wherever we go.
I am not making light of your, my or anyone elses journey.
I have had to, at times, revert to my male clothes as temporary armour.
There are no 'rules' against this.
We all deal with lifes obstacles as best we can.
As the last 2 years of my life has gone by, I revert less and less.
We lead, and let the world catch up in our wake.
Your life, and everyones life, trans or not, is precious and none can be replaced.
In closing, may I share with you and everyone, the words of the Late Basil King,
a Canadian Pastor, who once said,
'Be bold, and mighty forces will come to your aid.'
Maria, you are beautiful and welcome to sanctuary.
**HUGS** from Canada
Here's a random pic of what I mean... not a graphic T but just a plain white one.... I say graphic because solid colors don't hide things as well as patterns or graphics, so whatever you like, just coordinate so it isn't too busy, etc... As you can see, the look will hide the girls fairly well.
http://usih.merchantrunglobal.com/ImageHosting/ViewImage.aspx?GlobalID=1003&MerchantID=1327&ImageID=37402&DisplaySize=-1 (http://usih.merchantrunglobal.com/ImageHosting/ViewImage.aspx?GlobalID=1003&MerchantID=1327&ImageID=37402&DisplaySize=-1)
This is sad and terrible, also my greatest fear if I were to "grow a pair" and begin becoming on the outside who I am on the inside. So my heart goes out to you Maria.
Maria, this is hard for me, but I feel I need to speak my piece because you deserve to hear the truth. I really hope this helps. You seem like an interesting sensitive person and I want the best for you. In my opinion, things will be better if you face some important facts:
Quote from: unpassable on March 31, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
There are millions of things I can't do because of my lack of passability including but not limited to going to a gym and I can't function like a normal human being.
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely UNTRUE!!! There is no rule that says non-passable woman can't go to a gym, other than the rules you are making up yourself. If you are harassed at a gym, complain to the management, if they don't help, switch gyms, or hold your chin high and stand our ground, but really, the only thing keeping you out of that gym is YOU.
Quote from: unpassable on March 31, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
It doesn't happen everyday to get threatened, thank God, there are very nice people out there, but threats, harassment, ridicule, name calling have happened way too many times and I am afraid to get out of the house.
Not being able to leave the house is NOT a result of the threats, harassment, etc. It is a result of YOUR OWN FEAR.
Consider reframing those incidents in your mind as a motivator instead of a demotivator. For example instead of "I can't leave the house because someone will harass me", say "I'm going out today, because I need to show the world that harassment won't keep me in!"
Quote from: unpassable on March 31, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
Sometimes I spend 4 or 5 days at home without going out at all, for fear of being confronted. I live like a hermit and I have been made feel like a monster.
No, you haven't been "made" to feel like a monster, that is something you took on for yourself. It is a reaction to the confrontations that comes from YOU.
Consider reminding yourself that you are a sensitive, valuable human being instead. That you have a lot to give and any lunkhead who harasses you is missing out on knowing a wonderful person.
Quote from: unpassable on March 31, 2013, 11:15:53 PM
Rest assured that I have done EVERYTHING in my power to pass.
Completely irrelevant. If you pass, you pass, if not, you are still a beautiful, valuable, non-passing MtF. Where is it written that you lose your value and specialness as a human being when you don't pass?
It looks to me like you are hung up on your failure to pass and it's keeping you from enjoying and embracing life as a non-passing MtF.
I really hope this helps. I know I've been kind of harsh, and to a sensitive soul like you, it probably hurts to hear it, but I really feel like if I'm to write a response, it should be the unvarnished truth.
My sympathies, Maria.
It's difficult to comment with precision, given I don't know what you look like, how old you are, or whatever-else, but it's plain fact that, no matter the factors, your experiences as described are painful, and possibly traumatizing. I'm sorry that the world is like this, and I offer you a figurative shoulder to lean and cry on, if you will. And on that note, I hope you have found appropriate and effective emotional release - or that you will find it soon.
It's a heartbreaking situation, but there are ways of coping, and hopefully, things learned from your transition can be carried over to make living as male a less miserable existence than it once was.
I will note, though, that moving to a smaller town might help your situation. I don't know how far you are from passing, but smaller communities tend to be more forgiving in this regard. I pin much credit to my passability on the fact that I live in a small town - I don't know if I would be terribly successful in a place like Las Vegas, either.
Being a stubborn optimist (almost a silly statement, given how dark I usually am), I like to think that there is always a way to fix a problem. So, it is my thought that there may yet be salvation for your face. Hair transplants can be quite effective at managing recession, and noses are really quite diverse - it may not be realistic to get more work done on it, but it may not be as bad as you think. As for your chin... if it's too small, now, then a chin implant may help, though I know it's not a perfect solution.
To hope. I believe that you will find your happiness, and I hope that it doesn't have to take you very long.
:)
Maria, would you mind posting a picture? Maybe one of your nose-down so you don't identify yourself? Just to let us know if it is indeed that bad, as we criticize ourselves the most out of anyone. Maybe since you are so self conscious that it bleeds out to your outside appearance, making some sort of terrible self-fulfilling prophecy?
I'm so sorry that you feel like this,I wish I could do something.I don't pass,I'm 6'1half inch,I'm over 17 stone with big hands,size 11 feet and a gruff voice.How many of us do pass to be honest?I worked with the public for many years as a bus driver,after a bit the novelty wore off,I got abuse and rude comments,sometimes I ignored it,other times I'd tell them to go **** themself,sometimes I reported transphobic abuse to the police.Eventually I got a reputation of someone not to be ****** with and a good and kind person.I still work with the public,I'm a landlady/manager of a guest house in England's busiest seaside holiday resort.Don't give up because of a few losers,they have a problem not you.
I sent you a private message.
Mainly posting this so I can follow the thread easily.
Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 03:08:54 AM
have told me, I pass better as a woman when I am dressed manly. Isn't it strange?
No, that's not strange....
A MTF is a born male so dressing up (very) femme accentuates masculine facial AND body features. Despite HRT.
Dressing up androgyne or even masculine wil accentuate the acquired feminine facial/body features because of HRT.
I've seen this fenomenon quite often on MTF....dressing very femme, and *poof* all masculine facial and body features show like a bright light.
Women's clothes aren't made for wide shoulders, a big trunk, no waist, narrow hips etc *even* when it fits, the masculine body features *will* show.
I've seen the very same, very unpassable MTF dressed as 'men' too and *poof* they look like somewhat butch women in men's clothes.
Their hormone altered faces look more feminine above men's clothes.
Quote from: TessaM on April 01, 2013, 11:04:33 AM
who was your ffs surgeon?
From what I can tell, she's referring to Dr. O.
Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 02:49:10 AM
or delusional. In fact, that is why I see many transsexuals walking around convinced that they pass when they don't and people are reading them as books.
This is so, so very true!
I just wish I had a teensy, tiny fragment of their delusion.
"Critical thinking skills" and "being delusional" are two, very different, things.
True, one's current appearance (or hoped-for future appearance) is subject to bias; some people are biased more toward excessive beauty, and others toward excessive ugliness.
But, the process by which one ultimately arrives at their goal is NOT to be determined by delusion. No trust in the pro's, or complete faith in them, are both recipes for disaster, mainly because your perception of the outcome won'tmatch up to the reality.
Finally, I did not suggest being violent when confronting the gigglers...if you pay any attention at all, be peaceful, direct, and firm in greeting them, and having them tell you what's on their mind. This requires a bit of understanding and patience, and you won't convince them today. But, you will have planted the seed that TS are humans too.
Your choice as to whether you want to hear any of this.
Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 03:08:54 AM
I know how people feel on this forum that I shouldn't care and I shouldn't let idiots rule my life, but it's easier said than done. I was expecting difficulties but not all these difficulties.
People are social beings. It's pretty freaking hard to turn off your "I care what other people think/say" utility. And constant ragging gets one down. I don't know what the answer is to your problem, but detransition sounds ghastly. I wish you all the best.
This is a very sad, sad story and my greatest nightmare. I agree with a lot of the androgyne dressing tips that have been given and really hope you find some sort of happiness to comfort you. I often think about stopping transition its tacks for this exact reason. Part of me thinks no matter what I'll never pass and to just find peace in my MAAB status.
Kia Ora M,
Just a few questions... Did you test the water 'RLE' prior to surgery ? And how long was it for ? Did you 'experience' the same kind of ridicule ? And if so...were you told that things would get better once you had surgery ?
Metta Zenda :)
Maria, I read your posts and feel so much pain and suffering. I hope you can find respit from your torment.
The sisters and brothers here all mean well for you and hope for you the best.
I can only offer a shoulder for support; I am there for you.
thanks again for the support. It surprises me that some posters here feel that you can still have a good life being unpassable. This might sound political correct but it can't be further from the truth. Tell me where an unpassable transsexual can live a good life and I will run to that place. We live in a society and not on a desert island. Our identity is shaped by how others perceive us. I can convince myself that I am a woman, but if everyone out there sees me as a man in a dress, what's the point? Really? If everybody out there gives me constant negative feedback in all forms, how can I possibly convince myself that I am a woman? The constant ridicule, laughing, nudging can drive you crazy. And the disrespect, the discrimination in restaurants, public places, housing, jobs. You can survive for a bit, but then you become paranoid.
Another poster apologized for being harsh with me and telling me things like that I am the one who is prohibiting herself from going to the gym. I have heard these things again and again. Let's suppose I go to a gym. There might be 99 women who are cool and don't care and see me as a weirdo but still are polite, but then, it can take only one who can make a stink about it and I have to go through the unnecessary stress of complaining with the manager etc. And I change the gym and it can happen again.
I was born with gender dysphoria. Transition and living as a female made my gender dysphoria much much worse. I still don't understand all the people who say that transition made their gender dysphoria better. Everyone around me told me that I was going to be much happier living as a female, but hell no. In my case, my gender dysphoria was less when I was living as a man. Why? Because I was not constantly reminded (read again: constantly reminded) of my physical limitations.
As for my surgeons, it's pretty obvious who is he, and I don't want to mention his name.
can I ask you how you became more passable? Because I also read and hear people saying that passability is something you achieve with time, operations, experience, but I really can't imagine that. After you have had FFS, hair removal, dress and make up appropriately, Hormones, I mean, the bone structure will not change. It's the bone structure that gives us away.
Quote from: Albina on April 01, 2013, 10:59:09 PM
Despite all the previous discussions, I agree with Maria completely that passing and unpassing is very important in social life for the TS people. Since, as I understand it (and at least for me), my final aim is to integrate completely in our society into the women's side.
Here, where I live, in one of the Central Asian countries, the boundaries between men and women are very much abode by. And just a little bit of clothes variation to the side of an opposite gender causes unhealthy interest of the public. MTFs are very rare here (FTMs are many more) may be because of the very negative attitude.
In my experience, when I have a good pass now (no one even look at me suspiciously any more, and they properly addressing me. And believe me, our society is much different from the west world - so, it is not the matter of politeness I say here), people (especially women) are treating me very well and understanding, since they see a woman in me - both, internally and externally.
So, dear Maria, what can I advise? Find your way what you would be most comfortable with. I understand you and feel for you very much!
With all respect and love,
Albina.
Quote from: cynthialee on April 01, 2013, 01:41:29 PM
I sent you a private message.
Mainly posting this so I can follow the thread easily.
I received your message, thanks a lot. I am unable to respond, though.
Thanks again
by the way, a list of a couple of things that make me very depressed (despite the obvious of being called 'sir' and being outed).
1) going shopping. I hate, hate, hate shopping for clothes and shoes. Any transsexual, transgender I have talked to is shocked when I say that I hate shopping. They say "women like shopping". Isn't it obvious why I hate shopping for clothes and shoes?
2) going to the hair salon;
3) having my nails done
I'm sorry transitioning has not been good to you. I haven't read all the responses so I don't know if its been asked. But what are the chances you'll ever be able to go back to being a man? After three years of hormones and ffs is there a chance that you will look the same as before? I hope I'm not sounding rude or obnoxious asking this because that's not my intent I'm really just asking :)
Hi.
I happen to be different not a dresser or trans , im intersexed, yes a female / male , nether one or the other ,
Yet im accepted as a normal woman of over 65, i knew at age 10 what i was did not really fit in with boys or girls though i tryed.
I did not like how i looked, in fact hated any one with a camara, if i saw any one with that thing i was gone .
Am i any different now well ....no.... i dont look like a woman or female , because of my facial features, so think along the lines of why the hell do i dress in two different time 's of wow those womens clothes are just so lovely, i look out of place as to lovely frilly feminine clothes forget it, yet im in the public domain all the time seen by 1,000 's of people, get on plane's & go over seas & dressed in my Renaissance garb = clothes again looked at by 1,000's .
Who am i trying to fool. myself & even think i look or can look like a female / woman. do i pass or blend in not a show in hell.
Okay im makeing all this up so i can look cool or what ever, sorry the truth is i dont pass as a female or woman yet i am ...ONE... just not a compleat in all of my body face i missed out there,
Yet you know what, iv been in front of over 3 millon people yes you r reading it right, talked to 100's about my life as a woman one who is different, had interview's done with my pic's for Papers ,
& how did i feel about this , well i was prepared for it yet i did not think i would ever be accepted for who i am. & that has been most of my life, so i know what its like & im a female. i had to grow into a woman i was not a made one it was hard yet i have got where i need to be, no i did not transtion well how could i being intersexed yet i had issues to work through,
I know what hardship is about, i was allmost distroyed, in my life i looked at our grandchild & she keeped me alive , she is 10 y 4 m's now . i still have my days of dont look in the mirror theres no woman looking back yet you know there is just not a beautyfull looking one thats all , is it only about how i look .
No my beauty comes from with in & that shines to all who meet me see me & get to know the real who i am, so you see if i hung onto how i should look i would never be accepted because i fail in my looks .
I get embarrised being around other dresser's & trans because they surpass me in looks
so am i accepted or not on the grounds of how i look or am i accepted bassed on who i am as a person. im accepted as a woman regardless of my looks as iv been told not all of us woman are born with that female look , im one of those who missed out yet im still a woman, that pic = avatra is how i look & seen.
...noeleena...
Quote from: unpassable on April 02, 2013, 12:39:37 AM
It surprises me that some posters here feel that you can still have a good life being unpassable. This might sound political correct but it can't be further from the truth. Tell me where an unpassable transsexual can live a good life and I will run to that place.
Well I wouldn't call it a feeling, more of an observation based on talking with non-passable MtFs who say they are very happy with their transition.
I live in central Maryland, United States, but I suspect there are a lot of places where a good life is possible for those of us who don't pass well.
It might also require a state of mind where clockings and stares/giggles are ignored and where an individual carries a strong sense of worth and value as a person.
(Chiming in only on location - you could try the Northeast, specifically Western Massachusetts. I don't want to judge "passability" of anyone in general, but I do know one 6'2" 300-lb trans woman who says she's pretty butch - doesn't want to change her [baritone] voice and routinely dresses andro/male - and has had no problems aside from an occasional "Sir... oh, I mean ma'am." As soon as she makes it clear she's female, like by introducing herself by name, everyone is perfectly respectful. I think it's because people in New England don't pry into your business. ;) She has a job, an apartment, has found a husband, and says she's generally very content. Also, in Northampton there are enough cis butch lesbians that people assume *everyone* is female until proven otherwise; it's probably a tough place to be a trans guy!)
I have heard these stories too, many times, about very unpassable trans women who claim to be happy. Some of those who claimed to be happy are no longer with us and killed themselves. There's a big difference between what people say and what people do.
I know an unpassable transwoman,she is overweight and has thinning greying hair and a gravelly voice because of smoking,she is always clocked and doesn't give a rat's ass.She lives in a war zone in my town and drives a ratty 20 year old multi coloured old Ford that cost £125.She always has a smile on her face and has been with her boyfriend for 5 years and people respect and admire her.It can be done with the right attitude.
Quote from: big kim on April 02, 2013, 12:53:18 PM
I know an unpassable transwoman,she is overweight and has thinning greying hair and a gravelly voice because of smoking,she is always clocked and doesn't give a rat's ass.She lives in a war zone in my town and drives a ratty 20 year old multi coloured old Ford that cost £125.She always has a smile on her face and has been with her boyfriend for 5 years and people respect and admire her.It can be done with the right attitude.
YES!!!
yes yes yes.
This in spades!
Our lives do not have to be ruled by how others percieve us.
I guess one of the main points of this thread was to emphasize that transition can make your gender dysphoria worse, much worse, as in my case. I hope everyone can see why, now. For me, living as an unpassable woman who is constantly reminded of being a man in a dress is far worse than living as a male. I am not saying that I was happy living as a male, hell now, but I am saying that it was much less traumatic. The problem now is that I have had FFS and my face doesn't work for a woman and doesn't work for a man either, so, that's part of my dilemma.
I can't begin to imagine what you go through with yourself on a daily basis but I can certainly relate to your situation. The very exact things you've listed and your very situation is what terrifies me about starting HRT and wanting to transition myself.
I've seen plenty of success stories, there is plenty of them right here on this site. But I'm scared I won't turn out looking like I want to either. Then because of the HRT I won't be able to turn back, won't have functioning parts below and sterile.
So I feel for you and my heart goes out to you.
Quote from: KaylaW on April 02, 2013, 06:06:16 PM
I can't begin to imagine what you go through with yourself on a daily basis but I can certainly relate to your situation. The very exact things you've listed and your very situation is what terrifies me about starting HRT and wanting to transition myself.
I've seen plenty of success stories, there is plenty of them right here on this site. But I'm scared I won't turn out looking like I want to either. Then because of the HRT I won't be able to turn back, won't have functioning parts below and sterile.
So I feel for you and my heart goes out to you.
thank you for your nice words, but be careful with HRT. HRT is not as effective as people make it sound. Yes, it will give you softer skin, it will make you gain weight more easily, but it will not change your bone structure at all. HRT is definitely over-rated, it is actually the most over-rated things ever. The changes are so slow and so subtle...
Hormones can only do so much and that also depends on your age when you start.
But they do work, they will soften your skin, soften your features, you will develop breasts, your mood will change.
Passing is also attitude.
Some people will never be happy with their changes, maybe because they expected too much. But others are totally pleased.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on April 02, 2013, 06:31:27 PM
Hormones can only do so much and that also depends on your age when you start.
But they do work, they will soften your skin, soften your features, you will develop breasts, your mood will change.
Passing is also attitude.
Some people will never be happy with their changes, maybe because they expected too much. But others are totally pleased.
Softer skin and boobs will not make you passable. I have both of them and people read me as a book. Now, I am honestly interested and curious, what does it mean that passing is attitude? I keep hearing this over and over again, but someone who is tall, heavy, has a deep voice, a masculine, large skull, no amount of right attitude will make her pass. In fact, people who have read me in a second didn't even have time to determine my attitude.
Quote from: unpassable on April 02, 2013, 12:39:37 AM
It surprises me that some posters here feel that you can still have a good life being unpassable.
Life is what YOU make it. Plenty of people out there are "different" from what others perceive is normal. People who ridicule others for those differences are the ones with the real problems. Hormones and plastic surgery aren't golden tickets to cross over to the gender you are inside rather than outside. They work for some, but not all. The fact that they're standard treatment protocol for trans* people is something I personally don't agree with, but every individual should be able to make a choice on how they manage their dysphoria (because I think you were right when you mentioned that hormones and surgery aren't just for passing, they're also for dysphoria).
I believe that this particular reason is why most (again, not all) therapists advocate going "full time" for x-amount of time before having surgeries to test the waters.
Society has it so ingrained what is male and what is female, that it's difficult if there's something you can't change about yourself that "says" one or the other to the outside world. I won't say MtFs have it harder than FTMs or vice versa because it doesn't really matter. Everyone is an individual and making that choice to transition has consequences for everyone that vary a great deal. To say one particular group has it worse is really inaccurate. But no matter what other people think of you (or your gender) it doesn't change the facts. The fact is you're female, whether or not the outside matches up perfectly with society's narrow viewpoint. If you've gone so far in your transition to have a name change and gender marker change then society will just have to deal, it's not your burden unless you make it one (and having to mention something to a manager at a gym shouldn't be seen as a burden, but just a new task that you need to occasionally undertake).
What I've come to learn (the hard way) over time is that money can not buy happiness. I consider myself lucky in that I haven't transitioned and I don't plan to. Because I learned that even if I spent thousands of dollars on therapy, hormones, surgeries, that wouldn't solve some core issues for me. I'm on the flip side of the coin from you in that I'm actually male, but the large portion of the world still sees me as female (sometimes I can pull off androgynous or a younger guy, but that's about all I can get). But I've got priorities in my life and a lot of them have nothing to do with gender. Also, I didn't choose my gender. I came into this world with it. What the doctors wrote on my birth certificate is just something I've chosen to live with. Luckily I have some friends and a spouse who know the real me. That helps if you can have people in your life who understand and accept you, regardless of what you look like. Others have mentioned support groups ... surly there's something like that in Vegas that you could get involved with? Begin to bring people into your life who support you, regardless.
What helps in my own situation is not trying to "pass", but just being myself. I don't have a checklist anymore that I'm always mentally trying to make sure I'm conforming to. I have my off days where dysphoria is a problem, but I have my own coping mechanisms now as well. I don't put on an act for anyone though. They get the real me whether they know what's actually in my pants or not. If I'm out and about where no one knows me and someone calls me "ma'am" I have occasionally corrected them if I feel so inclined (and if I don't have to show my ID or pay with a credit card somewhere). Even tiny efforts like that have made me feel more comfortable in my own skin.
I had to change my perspective on a number of things in order for any happiness to happen to me. Notice I say that it
happened, because I don't believe you can "find" happiness either. It's like one of those things that the harder you try to obtain it, the farther it slips away from your grasp. The more you try to focus on it, the more you build up your definition of it and therefore make it that much harder to attain. "I'll be happy when I can have the face of a women". You're not only imposing demands on yourself, but you're putting qualifiers on happiness itself and if you don't meet those qualifiers then you assume you can never be happy and like all good self-fulfilling prophecies, you won't be.
It's not just trans* people who struggle with this. People with illnesses, people who are disabled, regular "average" people who have imposed things onto themselves, all struggle with "finding happiness" or being happy with themselves or their bodies. Everyone seems to be striving so hard to be happy. They try to get it through a therapist, they try to get it through pills, they try to get it through other people, objects, actions, and obsessions. But I truly believe that in order for happiness to happen, you have to change your perspective. You have to embrace the "now" and life "as-is" with all its quirks and nuances. You have to be open to the possibility that happiness can happen. Don't struggle so hard to find it.
The body is just a vessel and all of us are stuck in the very same bodies that we were born with no matter how we try to change them on the outside. We're all seeking to be comfortable in our body, but comfortable is variable as well. I believe when you embrace things as they are, a small spark is ignited deep inside of you and that spark is confidence. That in turn can help you to let go of all these grandiose definitions and crazy demands you've put on yourself.
Also, once that confidence is sparked, you may find that you can eloquently confront people who snicker or point fingers and turn the tables on them ... let them know you're a confident and secure WOMAN who doesn't resort to violence to get her point across, but rises above pettiness. People who point and snicker and say hurtful things usually continue to do so because they can sense there will be no repercussions for their actions and they feed off the reactions they cause in people (they probably have a lot of issues of their own as well). You may also find over time that things like that just roll on by you because confidence can build an inner strength that can ground you like a large boulder in a mountain stream. Things can flow easily and calmly around you while you remain securely rooted. If you don't react the way the taunters want you to, then they weaken, not you (and who knows, they might also learn over time that that's not appropriate behavior).
Even if someone is transitioning, at any given moment they can still embrace things as they are. We're all on a journey, whether that journey includes HRT and surgeries is up to the individual, but there really is no point at all that I've found in the 40 years I've been on this rock so far, to hating yourself and hating the body you currently have (unless you just want to be miserable). Life is all about ups and downs, no matter what path you're on and I also believe that no matter whether you feel you've made a "bad" choice in life (we all make so-called bad choices), it's not something to fixate on, beat yourself up about, or create insurmountable obstacles over. You learn, and you move forward, perhaps in a different and better direction than before.
All of this is not "easy". One day you can't just declare, "I'm going to be more confident!" and have it magically happen. It takes work and it takes a genuine effort to make very small steps in a different direction. But I've become a bit of an optimist over the years and I'm hear to say that it
is possible to be transsexual, not "passable" and still live a fruitful, exciting, full and happy life.
Maria, I know you are hurting and if I was there you would receive a real big hug, but now a virtual hug has to do.
I just wanted to thank you for sharing your story, even when it must hurt badly to write everything down. I just feel that your story is a good reminder especially for myself and most likely to others too who hasn't yet started a HRT that starting it and expecting something might be unreachable and make me just even more unhappy.
Of course it's a case of you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
But your story has given me a lot to think about and I guess I need to have some kind of back-up plan if this body doesn't really turn out passable.
I know people say that just ignore laughing people etc. At least I'm not that strong people, but I do admire those who are strong enough to just walk on and ignore everything that is thrown against them.
Thank you Maria and please take care of yourself.
Kia Ora Maria,
What kind of support is it you're looking for ?
1) Get some counselling
2) Dress more androgynous
3) Move to a more trans-friendly environment
4) Detransition
What's done is done and a lesson learnt-you can't go back- you can only move forward...
It might sound harsh but this the 'reality' you now face...
The choice is yours...Good luck...
Metta Zenda :)
Hi Maria,
I am very sorry to hear about your situation and I wish I knew how to help, but I don't. :-(
Say, I think a lot of us are very curious at this point: could you by any chance post a couple of pictures of yourself? It might just be all in your head, maybe... Hard to tell without a picture to look at..
Hugs,
Andrea
I'm going to quote something from my previous post, as the OP seems to have missed it. I'm also going to make some further comments..
Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on April 01, 2013, 03:11:36 AM
Here's a tip, if you are dressed right, move right, talk right, etc, most people will never 'clock' you. In my experience, the only people who look at at trans people close enough to notice are other trans people. Don't get me wrong, I have the odd (almost none) person laugh or comment, but I ignore them. Attitude and confidence have been key for me - without them I'd be a miserable wreck.
Like I said previously, ignore them and move on. They are the ones with a problem - not you.
From reading the subsequent posts, I suspect there is more going on than just your appearance.. You keep making comments about how an MTF's bone structure is a give away - the differences between 'typical male' and 'typical female' for most things are quite small and in a fairly genetically diverse population, can be almost non-existent. And most people are ignorant of the differences, so your 'argument' about bone structure is really a bit of a loss.
I wonder about your posture, how you move, how you sound and how you 'act'. These are more likely to 'give you away' than looks alone, but even these are just small items.
Here's a question for you.. Do you
want to be a woman or
are you a woman?
I'm a woman and have 100% confidence in my identity. I am also have 100% self-acceptance of this. I feel these 2 items are key. I feel that without these, you may as walk around with a sign that says 'I'm a trans woman.'
Here you are...
Christina Aguilera - Beautiful (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAfyFTzZDMM#)
I'm giving this thread a theme song. Found almost the perfect song. It's by Christina Aguliera. Listen to it. Daily if necessary.
You don't need to pass to transition. Sure it helps if you do. But it's not essential. Let me tell you a secret Maria. I can pass if I really want to. But I don't always make the effort as it's not a major priority in my life.
I guess at the end of the day it depends on what sort of character you have. It depends on what you have deep down inside you.
You see the thing is, despite over a decade of RLE and not having much physical stuff done all the most important aspects of my transition are behind me. The 'F' in my passport, on my medical records, and the knowledge that I did the right thing by coming out and transitioning.
I'm female. Period. End of. It's not just me here saying it, it's my reality. It's who I am. And you know all the hormones and surgical procedures and stuff that we have to go through isn't going to make me any more female.
Nor is it ever going to change the fact that I'm trans. This is how I was born, this is who I am, and it's going to be how I die.
I'm cool with that knowledge. I'm totally comfortable with who I am. No issues with looking in the mirror. I can also fem up whenever I want and go out. I get laughed at more times because I'm fat than because I'm trans. But I'm working on my weight, I'll get there eventually.
Like I said it all boils down to what sort of person you are at the end of the day.
When things don't turn out the way you plan what do you do? Do you look inward and see if there's something you could do differently? Or do you get angry and lash out and look for someone to blame?
Do you go through life pointing out other people's issues, or do you do what you can to accept, own and work on your issues?
What do you do when you get angry? Do you recognize it and try to turn it into something more positive, or do you sit there and seeth and burn inside with caustic resentment and bitterness?
Are you more concerned with being right and winning the argument or is finding some sort of agreement and common ground more important to you?
Are you able to accept that you have made mistakes and move on, and do you let go when other people make mistakes and get it wrong? Or do you hold them accountable?
That's a good word - accountable. How accountable or responsible do you feel for your life and the quality of your living experience?
Let's take that all important word, shall we? Trans. It's just a label, nothing more. It's not really something which defines you, or is it? To me it's just a small part of who I am, about as important as the colour of my eyes or the size of my feet.
Sure it can make my life more difficult, but you can still have a happy, fulfilling life even if it's difficult for you. But my being trans doesn't give me a pass, nor does it single me out for special treatment.
Some people have an issue with it, SOME people, just like some people have an issue with fat people, some people have an issue with the other gender. Some people have an issue with homosexuals. The truth is the vast majority of people out there don't know me, don't care who I am and aren't that bothered.
The discrimination doesn't bother me. Not at all. Even if I were born female, even an attractive female, I would still have to face and deal with discrimination. Everybody has to deal with discrimination at some point in their lives. Even men. It doesn't bother me because not everybody has to like me.
So what sort of person are you Maria? Who are you? Do you know?
Tons of good support and advice so far... I would also add that before you detransition, ask youself this rather unpolitically-correct question, irrespective of the fact that I hope you feel like and know you are a woman no matter what: would you rather live as an 'acceptable looking' male, or a less than attractive/acceptable looking female? I'd rather be the ugliest girl in town rather than the prettiest boy, you know? Luckily, I'm not in that situation (lol, and thank fate), but still, it wouldn't be a question. What would you prefer?
And although it might be hard, if you are in fact open and living as a female, meaning not bothered about revealing your face or even just your average look to us, we might be able to offer not only support, but constructive advice to improve yourself from our own experiences and perspectives? What could it hurt? No one here is going to insult you or make you feel anything less than the woman you are, I can guarantee that. I think the four pages of heartfelt advice and commiseration so far is proof of that! :) Before you do something as drastic as detransition, I think you should give it a shot!
To GendrKweer: we totally missed the point. I don't care about being pretty. What I wanted to be was believable, even very ugly, but believable as a woman. You know, there are plenty of unattractive women out there who are never questioned as far as their gender? And even if we want to stretch and say that there are women mistaken for men, it doesn't happen that often to them as to someone in my position. At this point, I would rather live as a believable man than as an unpassable woman. I repeat once again that transition made my dysphoria worse. Nobody seems to have lingered on that point. As for posting the picture, I can't do that. I just can't for now. Sorry.
To StellaB: I don't put blame on others but I am mostly upset at my therapists and surgeon for giving me false expectations. For instance, my surgeon should have warned me beforehand that despite all the surgical procedures, my face was going to remain grossly masculine. I'm fine with the fact that I am trans, really, I have no qualms of being a genetic female, I just wanted to move through the world unmolested.
To Kelly the Trans-Rebel: I highly doubt that my posture, voice are giving me away. I strongly disagree with you that the changes in body structure are so minimal that most people don't even notice them.
why not have a test run??? drive to a new town, throw on some menswear, and hit the local bar...just be a bloke for a day, and it might be awesome...
Quote from: kkut on April 03, 2013, 09:46:03 AM
unpassable, this appears to be a contradiction to something you said prior. Before you said your FFS makes it hard to present as male now.
Can you help us understand this apparent contradiction? (I'm not trying to poke holes here, I really want to have a better understanding of your situation :)).
No, this is not a contradiction. RIght now my face doesn't work as a woman and wouldn't work as a man either. It's a hybrid's face. I don't know how to explain, it's a freak's face. Where do you see the contradiction?
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 11:39:48 AM
No, this is not a contradiction. RIght now my face doesn't work as a woman and wouldn't work as a man either. It's a hybrid's face. I don't know how to explain, it's a freak's face. Where do you see the contradiction?
You mean androgynous I would love to see a picture where I can judge for myself how passable or unpassable you are. :)
you have to see me in real life to determine how unpassable I am. If I am telling you that I am unpassable and I get read many times, why can't you just believe me? Pictures can give you only an idea. In any case, my point is very clear. By bone structure I mean the face as well, when the face is too long and/or too wide or simply too big, too square that even several rounds of FFS don't feminize it enough. I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to conceive a face that doesn't work for a female and doesn't work for a male either. Sort of a hybrid face. Think about Bruce Jenner or Michael Jackson but much worse. A grossly masculine face altered by plastic surgery that still looks grossly masculine.
If I posted my pictures, some of you would suggest covering my face with hair like my doctor said (been there, done that, it can't be done in hot weather and makes you look stupid, at this point I would rather become muslim and go around with a burka), some of you would even go as far as saying that I don't look that bad, but you absolutely don't get a realistic picture from a photo. Have you ever been apartment hunting? I see all these apartment that look one way in pictures and then look completely different in real life. Posting pictures is pointless, really. I look bad, now I have to decide how to live a better life. Presenting androgynous seems the best solution for now, but, again, I can't think about spending the rest of my life hiding in baggy clothes and hats.
My biggest desire, though, is to stress that transition can make your gender dysphoria much worse. When I was a man, let's say my gender dysphoria was 100. Now that I have lived full time my gender dysphoria is 100000000000. Do you see my point?
Luckily your case does not represent everyone.
I agree the decision to transition needs careful thought, it is not to be taken lightly.
My decision to transition was not a disaster, sure I lost people in my life, I had cases where I was "outed". I experienced problems but the total and final result was I'm Happier.
I'm not perfect, I'll never win a beauty contest, but I'm not the ugliest person around either.
I respect your opinion, it was your life and it didn't work out. I'm sorry about that. Truly sorry.
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 08:49:27 AM
To StellaB: I don't put blame on others but I am mostly upset at my therapists and surgeon for giving me false expectations. For instance, my surgeon should have warned me beforehand that despite all the surgical procedures, my face was going to remain grossly masculine. I'm fine with the fact that I am trans, really, I have no qualms of being a genetic female, I just wanted to move through the world unmolested.
Nobody gets through life unmolested. Seriously. Idiots are part of human evolution so we (hopefully) don't die out from our own stupidity.
You claim that you don't blame your therapists and doctors but yet you're still upset at them for what they did. You use the phrase 'should have'. If you don't blame then, then surely we have a glass half empty half full situation here, don't you think?
I try to avoid 'should have' in my thinking and vocabulary. I have more than my fair share of disappointments, setbacks and failures from trying to do stuff which turned out too difficult for me to ever want to attempt to do stuff which is impossible.
Therefore I can't really say I feel for you, because pity is such a pathetic emotion which involves a similar phrase 'I would have done x in your situation'.
I can't because I feel I've been there in your shoes, being unpassable, angry and upset at people who I held responsible, hating the world, hating myself, hating people, consumed by my own anger, and resentment, and hurt.
This.
I can't help but wonder whether this is the actual issue here.
You see it doesn't matter what you look like, if you're unhappy with yourself, angry, resentful, uncomfortable, you could look like Pamela Anderson but if you have all that going on inside people will pick up on it and you will start attracting problems to you.
Have you read the Qabala by Alasteir Crowleigh? I have. It's about magic, witchcraft and spells. All these three things rely on your ability to project emotion and energy out towards a target. The basic principle is that what you project out comes back to you. Always.
This is something you don't have to take my word for, but something you can try and see it for yourself. A lot of people pick up on 'vibes'. Your thoughts, feelings and emotions influence how you look and behave - facial expression, body posture, movements, body language.
The people who point and s->-bleeped-<- and call out rude names and such, they pick up on it. It's like a dog, they sense and pick up on weakness. Anger and resentment are great for projecting out weakness in energy and emotion. Fear is even better.
Some have asked you to post a photo. You haven't. I guess it's something which could be quite scary for you, posting an image of yourself which you're not happy with on a message board for strangers to look at.
I don't need to see a photo. I have enough of your words to sense (or guess if you prefer) what could be going through your head right now. Not trying to second guess you, or anything like that. But after twenty or so years in theatre I'm using my ability to build a character or an image of someone from words. I could be wrong, I could be wide of the mark, you see I'm not you. Don't know you from Adam (or Eve if you prefer).
But see, some stuff here I don't understand. What's it like to have such strong feelings and emotions for people who are no longer in your life, who are very unlikely to be thinking about you right now, and who might not even remember you?
Where's the payoff? What is this giving you? What do you get out of it?
From what I can see, it's not giving you happiness, or comfort, and judging by the title you gave to this thread I don't think it's left you with any positive memories either, has it?
What are all these strings and attachments to the past giving you? Why am I getting the feeling that you're walking round with this stuff in your head like cherished memories? Are you an emotional masochist or something?
Please... you don't have to respond or even answer these questions. I'm just adding this stuff to the thread as stuff for you to think about, and consider.
I actually think you're doing the right thing by coming here, logging in and taking part in the thread. It doesn't matter if you don't work, or go out much, or whatever, just as long as you have access to a computer and find your way here. You're reaching out and developing a support network. Hopefully you'll make a few friends.
I'll assume you'll figure it out in your own time, and move on when you're ready.
Just wanted to thank you for acknowledging my post.
Take care of yourself.
Quote from: kkut on April 03, 2013, 01:29:41 PM
I think you're doing it in an irresponsible way. Do you see my point? You have been snippy and argumentative with people who are trying to support and help you. There are people seeking support here on these very issues, this is NOT helpful to them IMO.
I'm not suggesting people not discuss the cons of these decisions, to the contrary. There was a young gal who recently discussed her FFS regret, but she did so responsibly and didn't argue with people and tell them they just don't get it. How can we get it? You're making contradicting statements and aren't willing to help us understand your situation.
We're on page four now, what do you want to achieve from this point forward?
I am not being snippy or argumentative, in fact, I thanked everyone many times. It's you that you are seeing contradictions where there aren't any. Plus, avoid using the pronoun "we" to include other people. There have been other people in this thread who have been more helpful and I don't want to lump them together with you when you use the pronoun "we".
You are seeing contradictions where there aren't any. I already made my point clear. My goal was to stress a few things and get more ideas. I got some ideas from people. Also, I don't understand why we have to talk about beauty and beauty contests. Beauty is irrelevant here. Being passable and being pretty are two different things. I didn't want to be pretty, I don't care.
You are doing something very vile, you are putting the blame on me. Too convenient.
Anyway, I don't want to spoil the thread because there has been very valuable input.
Quote from: StellaB on April 03, 2013, 02:00:26 PM
Have you read the Qabala by Alasteir Crowleigh? I have. It's about magic, witchcraft and spells. All these three things rely on your ability to project emotion and energy out towards a target. The basic principle is that what you project out comes back to you. Always.
can you please elaborate on that? Do you really think this stuff works? I am not questioning you, I am just very curious if it really works. I mean, I can convince myself that I am Sharon Stone, but will people see me as such? Do you really think it's a matter of projection of emotions and fears and not physical problems? Please elaborate on that, I am very curious.
Thanks
Enough Sniping folks.
Let's tone down the rhetoric.
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 02:08:03 PM
can you please elaborate on that? Do you really think this stuff works? I am not questioning you, I am just very curious if it really works. I mean, I can convince myself that I am Sharon Stone, but will people see me as such? Do you really think it's a matter of projection of emotions and fears and not physical problems? Please elaborate on that, I am very curious.
Thanks
Hi Maria
No need to convince yourself that you're Sharon Stone, just being yourself is good enough.
Of course it works. How else do actors get to play characters in a movie?
I'll give you an example. Go onto Youtube and google Tom Hanks. Take a look at him in 'Forrest Gump'. Then take a look at him in 'The Green Mile', and then in 'Cast Away'.
These are not the best examples, because they're movies, and when actors appear in movies they tend to mainly focus on using their faces to project emotion. Cameras are a little bit different from the human eye. They catch everything, so directors have to pick out what they want the audience to see and feel through editing.
If you want better examples it's best to go to the theatre (or theater) and see live performances on stage. As there's no cameras the audience sees everything, so stage actors have to use not just their faces but their whole bodies to project out emotions and feelings.
When you talk to someone what they're saying only really accounts for maybe 20-30% of the information they're taking in. As much as 50% maybe even more of the information comes from what isn't being said, the non-verbal cues, the facial expression, body language, posture and so on.
Many trans people are uncomfortable about their appearance, but it's not just trans people. I'd guess that maybe the majority of people in this world aren't entirely happy with the way they look.
The cisgendered don't get the chance to modify or change their appearance like us. So okay, it didn't work out. It's not a problem.
So okay, you do the next best thing, you project. Just like an actor you create your own character and use your body language, facial expressions and posture to create your image.
You've already discussed dressing and clothing choices with others on this thread. Clothing is important and you know better than me what works and what doesn't.
But yes it does work. I'd even say projection is just as important as anything else.
The thing about people is that some are just creative. if given a chance they will create a problem even where one doesn't exist. But you can't create anything without having an opportunity.
Projection cuts down those opportunities for those people.
But hey, don't take my word for it. Try it for yourself.
I don't see any contradiction. I am in a similar place myself. Though I haven't had ffs. I don't post photo's here because I don't need to, I get all the answers I need, regards (not) passing, from the reactions of people when I'm out. Until I get a better response, going FT is out of the question so I put it out of my mind. I clearly don't pass as a female but at the same time I have seen changes which make me a weird male but I don't have any trouble passing as male.
Maria, just a couple of thoughts.
What hormones (without dosages) are you on and have tried? I got similar effects to what you're describing with Premarin.
Perhaps you could think of passing in a different way. I see a local girl out and about, She doesn't pass but I would find it hard to imagine anyone bothering her. (think full makeup, dreadlocks, piercings). What she is doing is projecting attitude which is saying I'm happy, take it or leave it.
Personally I find it hard to do this, probably you do too, but if you can manage it then you "own " your look. Maybe being seen as a woman is unachievable for some, but I believe we can all look good
my surgeon (I never mentioned his name) never said the things that you said. He said I look wonderful (of course, he did my face) and that I should wear my hair in a way to cover it entirely, with bangs and hair covering the sides of my face. Really? After I spent all that money?
In any case, go ahead and contact my therapists and surgeons. Your threats are laughable.
My very best.
Quote from: kkut on April 03, 2013, 02:32:39 PM
I'm in good company, I'll be sure and say hello to your therapists and your surgeon Dr. O now that I'm over here in their camp.
Really folks?
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 01:20:34 PM
you have to see me in real life to determine how unpassable I am. If I am telling you that I am unpassable and I get read many times, why can't you just believe me? Pictures can give you only an idea. In any case, my point is very clear. By bone structure I mean the face as well, when the face is too long and/or too wide or simply too big, too square that even several rounds of FFS don't feminize it enough. I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to conceive a face that doesn't work for a female and doesn't work for a male either. Sort of a hybrid face. Think about Bruce Jenner or Michael Jackson but much worse. A grossly masculine face altered by plastic surgery that still looks grossly masculine.
If I posted my pictures, some of you would suggest covering my face with hair like my doctor said (been there, done that, it can't be done in hot weather and makes you look stupid, at this point I would rather become muslim and go around with a burka), some of you would even go as far as saying that I don't look that bad, but you absolutely don't get a realistic picture from a photo. Have you ever been apartment hunting? I see all these apartment that look one way in pictures and then look completely different in real life. Posting pictures is pointless, really. I look bad, now I have to decide how to live a better life. Presenting androgynous seems the best solution for now, but, again, I can't think about spending the rest of my life hiding in baggy clothes and hats.
My biggest desire, though, is to stress that transition can make your gender dysphoria much worse. When I was a man, let's say my gender dysphoria was 100. Now that I have lived full time my gender dysphoria is 100000000000. Do you see my point?
I'm sorry I hope I didn't offend you! You sound like this is really getting to you I just wanted to see a picture because most of us don't look as bad as we think we do and when you get positive feedback it Can make you feel so much better. :)
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 01:20:34 PM
line.
My biggest desire, though, is to stress that transition can make your gender dysphoria much worse. When I was a man, let's say my gender dysphoria was 100. Now that I have lived full time my gender dysphoria is 100000000000. Do you see my point?
Yes, I see your point. Thing is: transitioning from male to female makes you
SOCIALLY VERY, VERY, VERY AWARE OF YOURSELF AND VERY, VERY VULNERABLE...... Negative reactions will cut deeply through your soul, let alone several negative reactions a day.
Thing is: you make a very, very feminine impression on me, being in 'contact' with reality and an ability to read one's face emotionally, a certain awareness of other people's body language, facial expressions, the look in their eyes.
Thing is: most, if not almost all MTF used to be straight guys who had the chance to build a healthy ego during their lives as passable, functional straight guys
and don't develop this feminine awareness of other people's bodylanguage, reading one emotionally from facial expressions, etc. and never will. They don't have this vulnerabilty due to their masculine personalities.
Resulting in the kind of MTF you describe:
Quote from: unpassable on April 01, 2013, 02:49:10 AM
or delusional. In fact, that is why I see many transsexuals walking around convinced that they pass when they don't and people are reading them as books.
PLUS: your botched FFS must be unbearable disappointing, not only botched but not feminising as well... very hard to take.
I feel for you!
Thank you. You are one of the wisest and most helpful contributors. Thanks again.
Quote from: Dahlia on April 03, 2013, 03:50:44 PM
Yes, I see your point. Thing is: transitioning from male to female makes you SOCIALLY VERY, VERY, VERY AWARE OF YOURSELF AND VERY, VERY VULNERABLE.
Negative reactions will cut deeply through your soul, let alone several negative reactions a day.
Thing is: you make a very, very feminine impression on me, being in 'contact' with reality and a certain awareness of other people's body language, facial expressions, the look in their eyes.
Thing is: most, if not almost all MTF used to be straight guys who had the chance to built a healthy ego during their lives as passable, functional straight guys and don't develop feminine awareness of other's bodylanguage, facial expressions etc. and never will.
They don't have this vulnerabilty due to their masculine personalities.
Resulting in the kind of MTF you describe:
PLUS: your FFS 'results' must be unbearable disappointing, very hard to take.
I feel for you!
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 04:17:11 PM
Thank you. You are one of the wisest and most helpful contributors. Thanks again.
Thank YOU Maria! For your courage to share your story and being so very honest!
I was modifying my post when you quoted me...but not all of my modified post came with it, sorry.
Quote from: Dahlia on April 03, 2013, 04:38:13 PM
Thank YOU Maria! For your courage to share your story and being so very honest!
I was modifying my post when you quoted me...but not all of my modified post came with it, sorry.
Dahlia, I sent you a private message. I don't know if you received it since I am new using this
I pass 100% of the time every day. As myself. And I am happy.
Back in male mode, I almost never passed. As myself. And I was much less happy. Thank God for the precious people who could look past presentation and appearance and still perceive the real me.
Since I transitioned, I have many more friends, better relationships, and am making progress in all the other areas of my life.
Because I pass every day. As my self. To the world. But most importantly to myself.
I get misgendered regularly- I am not so fortunate as to avoid that- but rarely with malice. And all become friendly as I help people understand and see me.
My gender therapist, a very wise woman, says when it comes to transition, "the proof is in the pudding".
It sounds like you have thoroughly tasted the pudding and it does not agree with you. So do yourself a favor, listen to your heart, and stop doing this if it isn't for you.
But please know, there are thousands of trans men trans women and gender queer and intersex individuals the world over who pass 100% of the time as themselves, and live wonderful happy lives because even though they are not mistaken for cisgender they are always taken for the people they are. I love my pudding so I keep eating it. Thats all.
Quote from: StellaB on April 03, 2013, 02:39:58 PM
Hi Maria
No need to convince yourself that you're Sharon Stone, just being yourself is good enough.
Of course it works. How else do actors get to play characters in a movie?
I'll give you an example. Go onto Youtube and google Tom Hanks. Take a look at him in 'Forrest Gump'. Then take a look at him in 'The Green Mile', and then in 'Cast Away'.
Stella B, thanks, but you talk about actors and theatre whereas I thought that your argument was of a more metaphysical nature, something regarding law of attraction. Am I mistaken?
Just my opinion... i believe if i ever detransitioned i fear i would live the rest of my life with regret for giving up and caving in to the pressures of the world and fate, on what i knew was truly right for me and supposed to be. But that is just my case, perhaps it is not yours.
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 01:20:34 PM
you have to see me in real life to determine how unpassable I am. If I am telling you that I am unpassable and I get read many times, why can't you just believe me? Pictures can give you only an idea. In any case, my point is very clear. By bone structure I mean the face as well, when the face is too long and/or too wide or simply too big, too square that even several rounds of FFS don't feminize it enough. I don't understand why it is so difficult for you to conceive a face that doesn't work for a female and doesn't work for a male either. Sort of a hybrid face. Think about Bruce Jenner or Michael Jackson but much worse. A grossly masculine face altered by plastic surgery that still looks grossly masculine.
Why don't I believe your inability to pass is purely due to your physical appearance? Because I 'pass' and am accepted as a woman - and I still have a quite masculine body shape and, in my opinion, my face is also quite masculine. I've not had any surgery done on my face, nor do I plan to.
QuoteIf I posted my pictures, some of you would suggest covering my face with hair like my doctor said (been there, done that, it can't be done in hot weather and makes you look stupid, at this point I would rather become muslim and go around with a burka), some of you would even go as far as saying that I don't look that bad, but you absolutely don't get a realistic picture from a photo. Have you ever been apartment hunting? I see all these apartment that look one way in pictures and then look completely different in real life. Posting pictures is pointless, really. I look bad, now I have to decide how to live a better life. Presenting androgynous seems the best solution for now, but, again, I can't think about spending the rest of my life hiding in baggy clothes and hats.
I think your attitude and confidence have taken a battering..
QuoteMy biggest desire, though, is to stress that transition can make your gender dysphoria much worse. When I was a man, let's say my gender dysphoria was 100. Now that I have lived full time my gender dysphoria is 100000000000. Do you see my point?
Transition is not for everyone. Sadly, in your case, it seems to have not been best choice. For me, it's been the best choice I've ever made. My therapist told me straight up that I would face possible ridicule and hatred - I'm still waiting for it.
And this is all I have to say in this thread, I'm out of here.
Quote from: unpassable on April 03, 2013, 06:43:08 PM
Stella B, thanks, but you talk about actors and theatre whereas I thought that your argument was of a more metaphysical nature, something regarding law of attraction. Am I mistaken?
No you're not. I just felt it simpler and more straightforward to use actors as a reference point. Let's face it all an actor is doing at the end of the day is pretending to be someone else for the purpose of entertainment.
But good actors, and I mean the ones we read and hear about are ones who've developed their 'draw' over a number of years and developed their awareness. Acting is quite spiritual in nature, because you have to learn how to control the vibes you give out, project, and influence other people's thinking and emotions. It takes power. especially if you're able to do it through a camera.
But when you stop and think about it, living is really all about adopting roles and 'acting'. We live in a complex arrangement of cycles, our habits, our relationships, even our thinking. And we project. And not just out in this plane of existence either.
That what is projected comes back to us. I strongly believe that there's a spiritual component in our lives and we are all following our own spiritual paths. And we develop and learn. My belief is that we are here only for a short period of time, we have numerous opportunities to develop and life is pretty much practice for what happens after we die.
But you know I also believe that we continue our relationships through the metaphysical. We all have a purpose, an objective that we're working towards.
Sometimes some of our energy comes back to us, usually without any warning and puts us into situations which puts us to the test. You can't quite put your finger on it, but life starts to fall apart. Relationships become rocky. People start treating you different.
So you think and you remember and you go back to trying things which worked previously. But they no longer work. The results are much different. The cycles in your life are breaking down and you have to come up with new ones.
Sometimes the new solutions work out, but sometimes not for very long and things start falling apart again. This often puts you right back into the situations you have tried so hard to avoid.
Usually in these situations there is one solution, just one solution, and you have to find it. If you don't find it that spiritual component will continue influencing your life and the situations will keep coming back, time after time, after time, after time.
I usually keep this to myself but since you asked I'll share it. The people around me know this psychic side of me, this spiritual side. It's come out to the fore more when I started transitioning and going full time.
However my psychic side is unreliable and countered by odd phases of GD, my clinical depression and social anxiety. I feel both gender dysphoria and depression are more complex than many people believe. Gender dysphoria isn't just a disconnect between mind and body but also between soul and body.
What further complicates it is that you have to 'transition' yourself internally in order to find peace, self-acceptance and happiness. This can - depending on your path and your life experience - be a complex process of learning and unlearning with various mistakes and misunderstandings, espeically if you get stuff from your subconscious wrong.
This is why I can't really give you any advice on what to do. I don't know you, all I have are a few postings on a thread on an Internet message board.
You are thousands of miles away sat at another computer stuck in what appears to be a major crossroads at your life.
It could be, if I take what you've written here at face value, that you've given transitioning your best shot but are coming to the point where you don't think you're ever going to be at peace with yourself or happy.
It could also be that you've rushed through your transition without picking up the necessary life skills and now you're stuck with the result and things are starting tio overwhelm you.
It could also be that you've hit a crisis, a time in your life when you just can't cope, and hindsight makes those experiences you had in life seem much easier than they were at the time. This could be caused by separation anxiety. You know, that time when you've got so far into your transition that you think back to everything you lost as a result. You miss it and remember, and have to go through more emotional fallout.
It could be just one of those 'spiritual' periods when you just can't see a way forward. You've tried all you can, you've thought about it, you might be feeling empty, feel that you can't do anything more, and you just can't see a way forward.
I've got to admit that I'm not so willing to make any suggestions here. I'd much rather try and keep to the more immediate and superficial topics, write about that, and maybe you might find some words in this thread which are going to inspire you to come up with your own answer to your situation.
What are the signs? How are people responding to you? Are you finding people are coming into your life unexplained? Any unexplained events in your life?
Projection can be a powerful thing. I've found that I can attract people into my life who are also good at projection and quite psychic. I've developed an ability to read faces and pick up on things. Little things, stuff most people don't usually notice. Some stay, some are only with me for some time.
But it can work both ways. A few people who have stayed over have told me of a spiritual presence in my bedroom. A ghost. I don't perceive ghosts, so I can only give these people the benefit of the doubt. I have my bedroom painted black because I'm also using it as a makeshift studio for photography and independent film projects. A couple of friends have described a man in a WWII bomber jacket who's unhappy and distressed and saying 'I can't get out'. They see him standing either by the window or in the playground outside looking up to my apartment (I live on the first floor).
I'm aware of the presence. I sometimes feel a chill wave coming down from the ceiling when I'm lying in bed at night. It's like a cold draught, but it comes from the ceiling. Often when I'm upset or angry stuff starts happening in my apartment. Doors slam. Things get misplaced. Water trickles from taps. I haven't worked out whether it's him, or it's me projecting and a straightforward case of psychokinesis. It could also be just my imagination and I forgot to turn the tap off completely or the door didn't really slam. I just imagined it.
But it's happened often enough in times of stress to make me consider psychokinesis as a possibility.
I generally do what i can to project out positive energy but it doesn't always work. It has always been like this, even before transitioning. I polarize people. Some people take to me instantly, and others develop an instant dislike. I'm told I project out positive energy. But I'm also aware that when I'm anxious and stressed I can also drain people.
Actually one of the most valuable lessons I learned when transitioning was learning how to 'shield'. In any situation I can retreat within myself so my exterior becomes nothing more than a shell. I stop projecting and just let other people's energy pass right through me. It's a skill you learn to protect yourself from spiritual harm, but it's pretty effective on people too.
I remember once going out somewhere and having to wear a somewhat tired, frizzy synthetic wig (I was saving up for a new one). I took a bus somewhere and got off at a stop where there were around ten or so teenage schoolkids on their way home from school; and a couple of other people.
The kids clocked me immediately and they let me have it. Nobody else at the bus stop intervened. It's like some mystical force had turned them to stone. I stood by the bus stop and just stared up the road at the approaching traffic. Out the corner of my eye I saw the kids move, heard the words, but nothing registered.
The bus came about ten minutes later. I got on the bus just blanking the kids beind me, and people staring. Then it died down and things returned to normal.
However to be able to shield you have to be at one with yourself. Anger and resentment weaken you, as does fear, and this is stuff that most people can pick up on. Shielding is useful also because other people can pick up on it and come to your assistance.
It takes practice, a fair amount of meditation and being able to hear your inner voice. That inner voice is that of your soul, and it should be able to speak louder than all the angry voices of those around you who are upset that you're not more like them.
Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on April 03, 2013, 07:03:50 PM
Transition is not for everyone. Sadly, in your case, it seems to have not been best choice. For me, it's been the best choice I've ever made. My therapist told me straight up that I would face possible ridicule and hatred - I'm still waiting for it.
Maria elaborates about her therapists and FFS surgeon, all of whom didn't tell her straight up etc.....
Quote from: kkut on April 04, 2013, 09:15:42 AM
I think that pretty much wraps everything up, thank you.
It's kind of rude or cruel to brand someone a troll...(her reputation) especially if someone is very honest and has the courage to post her story to ask for support....isn't it?
I went to support meetings and places that cater specifically for transgendered individuals. In those places everyone compliments each other, everyone says how passable and gorgeous you are. Probably they do it just to encourage you, I don't think they mean it as fake flattery. So, on the one hand I got all these people (therapists, doctor who performed my ffs, other transgendered women) telling me how passable I am and how smooth my transition will be. Then, I go out in the real world and I have to worry about my safety even if I go to a 7/11. I might find a gangster who reads me and kills me.
Life is freaking hard if you are an unpassable transsexual. If you deny that, you live in delusion.
The spirit of Susan's Place is not one of calling others delusional. This thread has gone far astray from YOUR detransition. I am locking this thread, you may start another, I expect it to focus on you, not others.