Hello all,
I am from the Alsace region in the east of France and, after years of denial and running away from myself, started my transition from male to female in 2008, just as I was hitting the fifties. I started with HRT and, after a couple of years stop-go, decided to really go the whole way a couple of years later. Since then I have done a very complete FFS, hair implants on the top of my head , hair removal on my face (aaaaaghhhhh!!!!!) and come out to everyone who counts in my life. I now pass well enough to be very comfortable assuming my female persona publicly and I guess more than anything else, I just feel happy about finally assuming my identity.
Still a bit to do before I can transition on my job but I am very hopeful that I can get this done successfully over the next year too.
Finally for now, I happily married to my second wife of 8 years who has been amazingly supportive through all the changes over the last few years, something that has brought us together more than ever and which contributed dramatically to helping me to accept myself.
I found this forum a bit by accident and just hope it will provide the opportunity to open new horizons and meet new and interesting people.
Best regards to all.
Donna
Hello Donna,
Welcome to the family, hope we get to know you better as time goes by. :)
Hi Shantel,
Thanks for your message and you know the warning about "always being careful about what you wish for..." :) ! But yes, you probably will get to know me better over time...
By the way, you have beautiful eyes!
Warm regards.
Donna
Hi Donna, :icon_wave:
Welcome to our little family. Over 10819. That would be one heck of a family reunion.
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Janet )O(
From sunny southern California, a warm welcome Donna Elvira! :)
Bienvenue, Donna ! :)
Bonjour Donna et bienvenue.
This site has been very helpful and supportive, and I have made good friends here. I am sure you will find the same.
Karen.
Hi all,
Thank you all for your kind words of welcome. Sometimes I think I am fine just going about a pretty busy, work-centric life, all the more so as my transition has been very well accepted by almost everyone who was anyway close to me.
However, no one understands what it is to be TG as well as other TG's so the need to interact with kindred spirits always comes back sooner or later.
I guess that as I have gotten through quite a lot of obstacles over the last few years I may also have a few things to share which may be of interest to others.
Anyway, for now it is just nice to find myself in such a supportive environment.
Bises à toutes et à tous.
Donna
Welcome to Susan's, Donna.Thank you for sharing your wonderful story.
:)
Hi Donna !
Excellent story, happy that you stuck with it, and were true to yourself. It's ok to move slowly, at your own pace.
My family is originally from Alsace as well... we must be sisters ! :)
Love the poem, is that Hopkins?
Hugs & Kisses,
Karla
Hi Donna!
Welcome!
Bist du zufälligerweise Deutschsprachig? Bist du also aus Elsaß, und nicht wirklich aus Alsace? :-) ;-)
Andrea
Gut morgen Andrea,
Danke sehr. Ich bin nicht wirklich aus Elsass aber ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch wie beinahe jeder der wohnt hier. Ich komme von Irland aber ich wohne in Frankreich seit 1976.
Jetzt, muss ich zu arbeit gehen.
Bis spâter.
Donna
Quote from: Donna Elvira on April 17, 2013, 12:21:35 AM
Gut morgen Andrea,
Danke sehr. Ich bin nicht wirklich aus Elsass aber ich spreche ein bisschen Deutsch wie beinahe jeder der wohnt hier. Ich komme von Irland aber ich wohne in Frankreich seit 1976.
Jetzt, muss ich zu arbeit gehen.
Bis spâter.
Donna
Wie schön!!! Elsaß ist ja so toll!!!
Die Ursprache zu erhalten find ich echt wichtig! Spricht man da mehr Deutsch oder mehr Französisch?
Frohes Schaffen auf Arbeit, Donna Elvira!
Andrea
Hi Andrea,
Wann ich genug Zeit habe, auf Deutsch antworten gefällt mir sehr aber hier ist dass unmöglich, zu schwer. Ich spreche und ich schreibe zu läufig auf English und auf Französisch, nur ein bisschen Deutsch, eine Sprache die ich selbst gelernt habe.
In Strasbourg viele Leute verstehen und sprechen Deutsch aber wir sprechen meistens auf Französisch. Dazu, wie Jeder in Deutschland English spricht, habe ich wenig Gelegenheit Deutsch zu üben. Am Ende, bin ich zu alt und zu faul der Bemühung zu machen... :)
Alors, si ça ne te gêne pas, pouvons nous faire connaissance en Français par exemple?
Bises Donna.
P.S. I already saw that you write excellent English but it's good to make me use my brain a bit.. :)
Quote from: karla.allen on April 16, 2013, 11:23:41 PM
Hi Donna !
Excellent story, happy that you stuck with it, and were true to yourself. It's ok to move slowly, at your own pace.
My family is originally from Alsace as well... we must be sisters ! :)
Love the poem, is that Hopkins?
Hugs & Kisses,
Karla
Hi Karla,
Small world isn't it and yes that is Hopkins, by far and away my favorite poet. I'm not a bit religious but I just love his sensitivity and the way he uses language. Loved him ever since I discovered him in high school and still invariably end out in tears if I read a poem like Felix Randal out loud.
Hugs and kisses too.
Donna
Quote from: Donna Elvira on April 20, 2013, 11:36:45 AM
Alors, si ça ne te gêne pas, pouvons nous faire connaissance en Français par exemple?
Bises Donna.
P.S. I already saw that you write excellent English but it's good to make me use my brain a bit.. :)
Bonjour Donna Elvira,
Est ce que je parle anglais tres bien? Je suis Americaine! :-) Le Francais, je le comprend bien mais je le parle seulement un peu. :-)
A bien tot,
Andrea
Quote from: NotThereYet on April 20, 2013, 12:20:18 PM
Bonjour Donna Elvira,
Est ce que je parle anglais tres bien? Je suis Americaine! :-) Le Francais, je le comprend bien mais je le parle seulement un peu. :-)
A bien tot,
Andrea
Félicitations pour le français Andréa! Suis franchement bluffée mais pense que tu dois être une Américaine très européenne, où plutôt germanique...je me trompe?
With that, so that we don't appear rude to others, it would probably be best to continue in English. I am however open to a little German von Zeit zu Zeit. It might give me the motivation to get properly stuck into a language that requires a lot of work to master.
Bises
Donna
Hi Donna Elvira!
Non, tu te ne trompes pas: although I am an American citizen, I was born and raised in Southern Germany. :-)
Believe it or not, of all the languages I speak, I find French to be the most difficult one to learn...
I can picture you speaking English with a thick Irish accent!!! Too cute!!! :-)
Was it easy for you to learn French?
Talk to you soon,
Andrea
Quote from: NotThereYet on April 21, 2013, 04:00:18 AM
Hi Donna Elvira!
Non, tu te ne trompes pas: although I am an American citizen, I was born and raised in Southern Germany. :-)
Believe it or not, of all the languages I speak, I find French to be the most difficult one to learn...
I can picture you speaking English with a thick Irish accent!!! Too cute!!! :-)
Was it easy for you to learn French?
Talk to you soon,
Andrea
Hi Andréa.
I'm afraid you would be disappointed with my accent. No doubt still some of the Irish softness but I have been living in France for so long (1976) that it has changed quite a lot and ,BTW, not all Irish accents are thick.... >:(
When I first left Ireland I actually spent some time in Southern Germany, a village called Dellmensingen in Baden Wurtemberg. I worked on a farm where, among other things, I looked after the pigs. I only stayed a few weeks as it was a real back of the woods place and I was desperately lonely but in the few weeks I was there, I think I must have castrated several hundred piglets. A whole symbol n'est-ce-pas??? :)
Other than that, yes I think I found French quite easy to learn. I started in highschool and loved the language. For example we studied Guy de Maupassant and I still remember the fascination I felt reading him. The stories are fantastic but so is the language, so rich and colorful...
Have a great day!
Donna
P.S. You must either be up very early or having a rather late night. Where do you live in the US?
P.P.S. Have just checked your profile and understand that it was still evening for you...
Hi Donna,
Your story really offers me hope. I'm a little scared right now.
Thank you.
Love,
Ciara
Quote from: Ciara on May 06, 2013, 06:25:46 PM
Hi Donna,
Your story really offers me hope. I'm a little scared right now.
Thank you.
Love,
Ciara
Hi Ciara,
Thanks for your kind message. Do you mind me asking what you are scared of?
Warm regards.
Donna
Hi Donna,
What am I scared of.......?
Well I am 54 years old. I am from Ireland. I have been married to a wonderful woman for 27 years. We have two children in their 20's. I love them all dearly.
I have lived my life as a man secretly wishing to be a woman. I have had a normal life until six weeks ago when an incident made me realise and recognise that I have been a girl all my life but living as a man and not the other way around. This was unexpected and has brought great joy to my life. For the first time I feel in my heart that I am a beautiful and loving girl. Many of the stresses that I have carried are gone. I feel that I am closer to my wife, family and friends all the more as a girl.
What scares me is that I now don't know where this will bring me and I don't know where I want it to bring me. What will it do to my relationship with my wife, family, friends, work colleagues if I share this.
I'm afraid that this beautiful experience may come at a price.
I don't expect that you will have answers to my fears but I do thank you for your concern.
I will have to take this one step at a time. Becoming a member at Susan's was a big step. Sharing with you (and whoever else may read this) has been another big step. I will eventually decide where I go. Wherever that will be I know that I will be a happier person knowing my true gender as a girl.
By the way, you look wonderful in your photograph.
Thank you.
Love,
Ciara.
Quote from: Ciara on May 07, 2013, 12:57:24 PM
Hi Donna,
What am I scared of.......?
Well I am 54 years old. I am from Ireland. I have been married to a wonderful woman for 27 years. We have two children in their 20's. I love them all dearly.
I have lived my life as a man secretly wishing to be a woman. I have had a normal life until six weeks ago when an incident made me realise and recognise that I have been a girl all my life but living as a man and not the other way around. This was unexpected and has brought great joy to my life. For the first time I feel in my heart that I am a beautiful and loving girl. Many of the stresses that I have carried are gone. I feel that I am closer to my wife, family and friends all the more as a girl.
What scares me is that I now don't know where this will bring me and I don't know where I want it to bring me. What will it do to my relationship with my wife, family, friends, work colleagues if I share this.
I'm afraid that this beautiful experience may come at a price.
I don't expect that you will have answers to my fears but I do thank you for your concern.
I will have to take this one step at a time. Becoming a member at Susan's was a big step. Sharing with you (and whoever else may read this) has been another big step. I will eventually decide where I go. Wherever that will be I know that I will be a happier person knowing my true gender as a girl.
By the way, you look wonderful in your photograph.
Thank you.
Love,
Ciara.
Hi Ciara,
Your message looks a little like your introduction and thank you for sharing all of that. As it happens, I am also from Ireland, the west, but left a long, long time time ago.
I must admit to being curious about your apparently sudden evolution from "secretly wishing to be a woman" to the realization that you "have been a been a girl" all your life. However, it probably doesn't make much difference at the end of the day as your real issue right now is indeed to understand where you want to take it from here.
Given your age, family situation etc.., I would strongly suggest you give yourself plenty of time to think before doing or saying things you might regret and if you can find a professional therapist you can talk to, you would proabably be doing yourself at great service by using such a third party to help you fully understand where you stand.
Looking at all the different discussion threads here can also provide a lot of insights, both in understanding your own feelings and getting ideas on how to cope with all the practical issues that crop up if and when you decide to come out.
If you do decide to move towards openly assuming your identity it also needs to be seriously thought out. When you are well established in life with lots of links and connections to others, all of whom have always known you for forever under a male identity, re-positioning yourself socially is a pretty complex endeavor. I guess what I am saying is that I have already seen quite a few people at our age experience their inner revelation and, feeling the need to act on it immediately, make some poorly thought out decisions which took them to some very difficult places.
However, none of this means it's impossible. People have generally become far more understanding and accepting about this subject and there are enough of us who have already gone through the hoops or who are already well advanced on their journey to know that it can be done.
Anyway, you will be able to avail of terrific resources here and you will quickly understand that there is no single right answer. Each one of us has found his/her own path depending on his/her unique individual circomstances.
Slan leat and wishing you all the best.
Donna
P.S. Thank you for the compliment on the photo but be aware that getting that getting there has been a pretty big undertaking; 2 long operations already and a 3rd (shorter) still to come, considerable expense plus long periods of recovery following the surgery.
Hi Donna,
I'm sorry if I was long winded but I think that once I started talking I couldn't stop. My evolution was not as sudden as it sounds but I'll save that for my introduction.
Meanwhile, thank you for your very good advice.
Go raibh maith agat!
Love,
Ciara
Hi Ciara,
There was no irony whatsoever intended in my response to your message. On the contrary, before answering, I had simply looked around to see if you had written an introduction. Since you hadn't, your message was actually very useful to understand your present situation and in no way did I find it longwinded.
Apart from that, I sent you a PM earlier today with some information which will hopefully help you with some of the questions you may or may not be already asking yourself.
Take care.
Donna
Hi Donna,
You are so kind. Thank you for your reply and PM. I will reply to your PM but it may be a few days before I have some private time at the kayboard.
Meanwhile, thank you so much for your kindness, your friendship and your support.
Love,
Ciare
Very happy to announce that my first grandchild was born today, a little girl, Ciara, and everyone, mother, child and father came through fine.
I would never have imagined the strenght of the emotion I felt on hearing the news, especially given that it wasn't exactly as surprise... :) I was in the middle of a meeting at work when the news came through but still coudn't keep back the tears.
Vive la vie!
Donna
Congratulations, Grandma!!!!
:-) Vive les enfants!
Hi Donna,
Congratulations. That is fantastic news for you all.
I'm thrilled for you and I just love her name!!!! :)
Love,
Ciara
Quote from: Ciara on June 12, 2013, 03:41:37 PM
Hi Donna,
Congratulations. That is fantastic news for you all.
I'm thrilled for you and I just love her name!!!! :)
Love,
Ciara
Strange, but I sort of guessed that you, above all people, would like the name. :)
Love
Donna
Quote from: Donna Elvira on June 12, 2013, 03:16:39 PM
Very happy to announce that my first grandchild was born today, a little girl, Ciara, and everyone, mother, child and father came through fine.
I would never have imagined the strenght of the emotion I felt on hearing the news, especially given that it wasn't exactly as surprise... :) I was in the middle of a meeting at work when the news came through but still coudn't keep back the tears.
Vive la vie!
Donna
Congratulations, being a grandparent is wonderful! I had a love/hate relationship with my own kids, my beautiful granddaughter has been my reprieve and a blessing in my life. I'm sure you will be able to relate before long. My best always, Shantel
Welcome Donna Elvira,
i enjoy reading your posts, because i always can learn from them.
I lived from 1986 to 1998 in Freiburg. In this time i often visited Alsace, France.
Wonderful Place with wonderful people.
I remember driving with a friend by car to Colmar every week to buy a carton of cigarettes.
Gitanes. We sat then in a coffee restaurant, eating croissants and drinking coffee.
I visited a few times Strasbourg with friends or family.
In Freiburg i had around the 1995 my coming out in the local transgender group.
Helped me a lot.
I also like Irish literature a lot. I grew up with James Joyce. And now do read Samuel Beckett.
Best wishes.
Quote from: angelats on June 12, 2013, 06:41:53 PM
Welcome Donna Elvira,
i enjoy reading your posts, because i always can learn from them.
I lived from 1986 to 1998 in Freiburg. In this time i often visited Alsace, France.
Wonderful Place with wonderful people.
I remember driving with a friend by car to Colmar every week to buy a carton of cigarettes.
Gitanes. We sat then in a coffee restaurant, eating croissants and drinking coffee.
I visited a few times Strasbourg with friends or family.
In Freiburg i had around the 1995 my coming out in the local transgender group.
Helped me a lot.
I also like Irish literature a lot. I grew up with James Joyce. And now do read Samuel Beckett.
Best wishes.
Hi there,
I assume you are speaking about Freiburg im Breisgau, also a very nice city in a very nice region? I actually have a TG friend there, an professor at the local university. She completely transitioned in her early twenties, detransitioned in her early thirties long enough to conceive a child and has since retranstitioned, this time probably for good. A very interesting story from a very interesting person. Reading some of your posts on other threads, it sounds like things are not exactly black and white for you either... :)
If you are still interested in James Joyce, you will know that this Sunday (16 June) is Bloomsday, and here in Strasbourg, a city of high culture n'est-ce pas, we celebrate Bloomsday with readings from Joyce's books and a bit of a party with an "enlarged" Irish community. If you are anywhere near Strasbourg, it's all happening at the Dubliner's pub, starting 12h00 on Sunday.
Warm regards.
Donna
Quote from: Shantel on June 12, 2013, 04:49:12 PM
Congratulations, being a grandparent is wonderful! I had a love/hate relationship with my own kids, my beautiful granddaughter has been my reprieve and a blessing in my life. I'm sure you will be able to relate before long. My best always, Shantel
Thank you Shan, and others. Unfortunately my daughter lives a two hour drive from me but I expect she whill still be seeing more of me in the months ahead than previously. I'm a little surprised at my own reaction but I really can't wait to see the baby.
Warm regards.
Donna
Thank You So Much For Your Friendly Reply!#
"I assume you are speaking about Freiburg im Breisgau..."
Yes
"I actually have a TG friend there, an professor at the local university. She completely transitioned in her early twenties, detransitioned in her early thirties long enough to conceive a child and has since retranstitioned, this time probably for good. A very interesting story from a very interesting person."
I remember a person, just starting transition in the TG support group, who was a kind of professor.
I doubt its the same person. I can't hardly remember, it was about 20 years ago. I have seen her only once or twice. But i doubt its the same person. A small petite mtf woman. And i do not remember she transitioned in her early twenties and detransitioned and retransitioned.
so, i guess we know different persons.
"Reading some of your posts on other threads, it sounds like things are not exactly black and white for you either... :)
I see human living as an expression of human freedom. And we all are born into bondage.
The whole gender spectrum and sex spectrum shows us the variety that exists in nature and civilization.
You have to find your place, to be in the world, to struggle with finances, family, friends, lovers,
with your body, with your mind and soul. And you have to realize freedom, love and happiness.
Its definitely not easy. But it teaches you a lot about life and what it means to be human,
learning to love and to understand.
I had and still have experiences that let me think about every day life and what people take for granted. what is familiar is often not recognized.
So many think, its clear and evident what a female person is or a male. For me this is not the case. I am still learning and trying to understand.
"If you are still interested in James Joyce, you will know that this Sunday (16 June) is Bloomsday, and here in Strasbourg, a city of high culture n'est-ce pas, we celebrate Bloomsday with readings from Joyce's books and a bit of a party with an "enlarged" Irish community. If you are anywhere near Strasbourg, it's all happening at the Dubliner's pub, starting 12h00 on Sunday."
Thank you for your wonderful advice. Sadly i am not near Strasbourg on Bloomsday, but i will celebrate Bloomsday in Berlin. Thank you very much for this wonderful idea.
I have been sometimes in the Irish Pubs in Freiburg. I like Guinness.
I even drink Jameson whiskey after i have read that Samuel Beckett used to drink it.
I tried to understand irish history and society while reading Joyce and Beckett.
Joyce and Beckett were exiles. Quite difficult to understand.
Warm regards
Angelats
Quote from: angelats on June 13, 2013, 10:37:14 AM
"If you are still interested in James Joyce, you will know that this Sunday (16 June) is Bloomsday, and here in Strasbourg, a city of high culture n'est-ce pas, we celebrate Bloomsday with readings from Joyce's books and a bit of a party with an "enlarged" Irish community. If you are anywhere near Strasbourg, it's all happening at the Dubliner's pub, starting 12h00 on Sunday."
Thank you for your wonderful advice. Sadly i am not near Strasbourg on Bloomsday, but i will celebrate Bloomsday in Berlin. Thank you very much for this wonderful idea.
Hi again Angelats,
Habe ich etwas fur Bloomsday in Berlin gefunden:
Am Sonntag, den 16.Juni wird im historischen Hotel Bogota der Bloomsday gefeiert! Es wird gelesen, gesungen, gefeiert!
Hope you enjoy!
Donna
@Angelats
In BaWü bist du, gell? In Freiburg in Üechtland spricht man eher Französisch, oder?
LG,
Andrea
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 13, 2013, 05:22:02 PM
@Angelats
In BaWü bist du, gell? In Freiburg in Üechtland spricht man eher Französisch, oder?
LG,
Andrea
@NotThereYet
erst mal danke für Deine Frage.
Ich war von 1986 bis 1998 in Freiburg im Breisgau, Baden-Württemberg.
Meines Wissens hast Du natürlich recht, daß im Üechtland eher Französisch gesprochen wird.
Ich bin erstaunt zum einen über Deine ausgezeichneten Deutschkenntnisse. Zum anderen über Deine Ortskenntnisse.
Ich bin aufgewachsen in Bayern, aber lebe nun seit 1998 in Berlin.
LG
Angelats
Quote from: angelats on June 13, 2013, 06:53:11 PM
@NotThereYet
erst mal danke für Deine Frage.
Ich war von 1986 bis 1998 in Freiburg im Breisgau, Baden-Württemberg.
Meines Wissens hast Du natürlich recht, daß im Üechtland eher Französisch gesprochen wird.
Ich bin erstaunt zum einen über Deine ausgezeichneten Deutschkenntnisse. Zum anderen über Deine Ortskenntnisse.
Ich bin aufgewachsen in Bayern, aber lebe nun seit 1998 in Berlin.
LG
Angelats
Berlin, Berlin, wir fahren nach Berlin!!! :-)
Und wie gefällt dir das Leben in der drittgrößten Türkischen Stadt? hihihi
Ach ... Berlin... Das Reichstagsgebäude, Karl Marx Allee, Unter den Linden Straße, Bahnhof Zoo... Leider war ich noch nicht da... Eines Tages, vielleicht... Werden mal sehen...
Also, in Bayern aufgewachsen (Nicht Oberbayern, gell???), 12 Jahre in BaWü, und nun seit 1998 in Berlin... Ne Welt Vagabundin bist du!!!! :-) Du musst ja sehr stark sein, in so ner Großstadt wie Berlin würde ich nicht mal ein ganzes Jahr überleben, viel zu groß und chaotisch, und so, also Respekt!! Sag mal, was hat dich nach Berlin verschlagen wenn man fragen darf?
Bis denne,
Andrea
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 14, 2013, 01:27:14 AM
Berlin, Berlin, wir fahren nach Berlin!!! :-)
Und wie gefällt dir das Leben in der drittgrößten Türkischen Stadt? hihihi
Ach ... Berlin... Das Reichstagsgebäude, Karl Marx Allee, Unter den Linden Straße, Bahnhof Zoo... Leider war ich noch nicht da... Eines Tages, vielleicht... Werden mal sehen...
Also, in Bayern aufgewachsen (Nicht Oberbayern, gell???), 12 Jahre in BaWü, und nun seit 1998 in Berlin... Ne Welt Vagabundin bist du!!!! :-) Du musst ja sehr stark sein, in so ner Großstadt wie Berlin würde ich nicht mal ein ganzes Jahr überleben, viel zu groß und chaotisch, und so, also Respekt!! Sag mal, was hat dich nach Berlin verschlagen wenn man fragen darf?
Bis denne,
Andrea
Ich freuhe mich sehr beinahe alles hier zu verstehen. Schreiben und sprechen is schwerer fur mich weil ich spreche meistens English und Franzosich. Jedoch, eine Frage habe ich nach diese Lesen. Hast du denn etwas gegen die Turken? :) Ebenfalls, wohin kommst du, eine ganz kleine Stadt?
Viele Grusse.
Donna
Quote from: Donna Elvira on June 14, 2013, 01:35:10 PM
Ich freuhe mich sehr beinahe alles hier zu verstehen. Schreiben und sprechen is schwerer fur mich weil ich spreche meistens English und Franzosich. Jedoch, eine Frage habe ich nach diese Lesen. Hast du denn etwas gegen die Turken? :) Ebenfalls, wohin kommst du, eine ganz kleine Stadt?
Viele Grusse.
Donna
Wie meinst du es jetzt? Warum sollte ich was gegen die Türken haben? Wie kommst du denn darauf? :-)
Seit Jahen lebe ich ja auf dem Land und bin ebenfalls in einem Weiler aufgewachsen. :-) Irgendwie kriege ich Angst, also in großen Städten... :-( Noch dazu bin ich ja ein bisschen klaustrophobisch...
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 14, 2013, 11:54:41 PM
Wie meinst du es jetzt? Warum sollte ich was gegen die Türken haben? Wie kommst du denn darauf? :-)
Seit Jahen lebe ich ja auf dem Land und bin ebenfalls in einem Weiler aufgewachsen. :-) Irgendwie kriege ich Angst, also in großen Städten... :-( Noch dazu bin ich ja ein bisschen klaustrophobisch...
Uh-huh right! Sprekenzie English you two, you're leaving out 11000 of the rest of us from this conversation! :icon_peace:
Quote from: Shantel on June 15, 2013, 10:41:31 AM
Uh-huh right! Sprekenzie English you two, you're leaving out 11000 of the rest of us from this conversation! :icon_peace:
No problem Shan,
I was simply pleasantly surprised by how much German I still understand as, while I hear quite a lot of the language since arriving here in Alsace 2 years ago, I haven't really used German since I was a student, mnay, many years ago...
Don't worry by the way, we didn't say anything disagreable about you or anyone else... :)
Bises
Donna
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 14, 2013, 11:54:41 PM
Wie meinst du es jetzt? Warum sollte ich was gegen die Türken haben? Wie kommst du denn darauf? :-)
Seit Jahen lebe ich ja auf dem Land und bin ebenfalls in einem Weiler aufgewachsen. :-) Irgendwie kriege ich Angst, also in großen Städten... :-( Noch dazu bin ich ja ein bisschen klaustrophobisch...
Hi,
My inquiry was in reaction to your remark about enjoying life in Berlin, "the 3rd biggest Turkish city in the world", but let's leave it at that. I understand that deep down you are a country girl and that big cities in general "freak you out" as people say in the US. :)
Warm regards.
Donna
Oops!! Sorry!! My, our apologies! Donna speaks very good German and we were enjoying a little, German culture specific, side conversation. :-)
Donna, I see what you mean, now, and no, that is not a sign of dislike: it is part of German pop-culture: Berlin has many Turkish Gastarbeiter and, population wise, is the third biggest Turkish city in the world. It is kind of like the "Soup Nazi" in America: nothing against soup.
Concerning me, yes, I am indeed a country girl, but I do love big cities, the energy they have, and I love everything multi cultural (Immigrants do not bother me in the least). It is just that I somehow get panic attacks when I am around so many people and so much hustle and bustle. I am working on it, though. Does it make sense?
I know it might be hard to understand how somebody would say that they like San Francisco and then become claustrophic after only a few days/hours visiting it... :-(
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 15, 2013, 12:46:24 PM
Oops!! Sorry!! My, our apologies! Donna speaks very good German and we were enjoying a little, German culture specific, side conversation. :-)
No apologies necessary but thanks! I think it's wonderful that you both are multi-linguistic and can enjoy a chat in German, but there are so many of us here that are missing out of the conversation that it might be more polite to PM one another so the rest don't feel left out! Being left out is one of the feelings that dovetails into some people's dysphoria.
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 15, 2013, 12:46:24 PM
It is just that I somehow get panic attacks when I am around so many people and so much hustle and bustle. I am working on it, though. Does it make sense?
Yes it does, I love people but big crowds make me become claustrophobic and anxiety sets in, I'm sure that many others here can relate as well!
Well, this is truly not really related to Transsexualism, but it is indeed one of my struggles. I mean, I love the idea of being around so many people and be exposed to all these different cultures, and therefore, I feel like I miss out a bit because of my "claustrophobia". I feel that if I were not "socially claustrophobic", I would enjoy life more, I would experience life more "to the fullest".
That is why I try to openly talk about it: you never know who might help you look at things differently and, with that, help you overcome challenges.
On a positive note, since my transitioning, I have been able to overcome a lot of my OCD related problems, and I am indeed starting to not let my fears control what I do and, especially, what I don't do. Make sense?
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 15, 2013, 04:31:17 PM
On a positive note, since my transitioning, I have been able to overcome a lot of my OCD related problems, and I am indeed starting to not let my fears control what I do and, especially, what I don't do. Make sense?
Definitely does!
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 14, 2013, 01:27:14 AM
Berlin, Berlin, wir fahren nach Berlin!!! :-)
Und wie gefällt dir das Leben in der drittgrößten Türkischen Stadt? hihihi
Ach ... Berlin... Das Reichstagsgebäude, Karl Marx Allee, Unter den Linden Straße, Bahnhof Zoo... Leider war ich noch nicht da... Eines Tages, vielleicht... Werden mal sehen...
Also, in Bayern aufgewachsen (Nicht Oberbayern, gell???), 12 Jahre in BaWü, und nun seit 1998 in Berlin... Ne Welt Vagabundin bist du!!!! :-) Du musst ja sehr stark sein, in so ner Großstadt wie Berlin würde ich nicht mal ein ganzes Jahr überleben, viel zu groß und chaotisch, und so, also Respekt!! Sag mal, was hat dich nach Berlin verschlagen wenn man fragen darf?
Bis denne,
Andrea
Hello Andrea,
a word of advice: some topics i discuss may trigger ...
"Und wie gefällt dir das Leben in der drittgrößten Türkischen Stadt? hihihi "
You asked how i like to live in Berlin and i answer as follows:
I like to live in Berlin. Its a vibrant city these days and very interesting things are happening here.
"Also, in Bayern aufgewachsen (Nicht Oberbayern, gell???), "
You wrote that i grew up in Bavaria but suggested that i did not grow up in Upper Bavaria.
You are right , i grew up in Lower Bavaria, close to the town where pope Ratzinger was born.
But as a boy i went to secondary school (Gymnasium) in Upper Bavaria and later in Lower Bavaria.
"Du musst ja sehr stark sein, in so ner Großstadt wie Berlin würde ich nicht mal ein ganzes Jahr überleben, viel zu groß und chaotisch, und so, also Respekt!! Sag mal, was hat dich nach Berlin verschlagen wenn man fragen darf? "
You write about that it takes strength to live in a big city and that you doubt to survive living more than one year in a city. And then you ask why i came to Berlin.
Actually i grew up as a country pumpkin on a remote farm. As a boy at the age of twelve i was sent to a city with secondary school in Upper Bavaria. So i already learned as a boy to live in a city. In the city i was the boy from the countryside and in my home i was called the boy from the city.
I went to Berlin to become a material girl and to transition.
I thought: If you can make it there
you can make it every where.
I had then a not so competent gender therapist who told me:
You will be unhappy and alone if you are mtf post-op,
which scared me a lot.
And i tried to exclude sexual abuse
as a possible cause for my transsexualism
before going on hormones.
And after talking to a few family members i had to recognize
that i somehow - to survive - have forgotten
that i was emotionally and sexually abused.
This pushed me for many years in a different mental space and
problem horizon and delayed transition.
I am way better now
and now the gender dysphoria knocks again my life.
Greetings
Angelats
Quote from: Donna Elvira on June 15, 2013, 12:15:56 PM
Hi,
My inquiry was in reaction to your remark about enjoying life in Berlin, "the 3rd biggest Turkish city in the world", but let's leave it at that. I understand that deep down you are a country girl and that big cities in general "freak you out" as people say in the US. :)
Warm regards.
Donna
Hi Donna,
about enjoying life in Berlin, "the 3rd biggest Turkish city in the world".
This is a tough question.
Because there are many good things in multicultural Berlin like for example
the carnival of cultures, a "proud expression of hybrid cultural identities".
But there are also problems with integration and parallel societies.
For example a young Turkish woman was shot to death by a brother,
because she wanted to live a modern life on her own and not a life of traditional life style,
in which first her father, then her man and then her son tells her what to do.
So there are pros and cons to this topic.
Just my two cents.
With warm regards
Angelats
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 15, 2013, 04:31:17 PM
Well, this is truly not really related to Transsexualism, but it is indeed one of my struggles. I mean, I love the idea of being around so many people and be exposed to all these different cultures, and therefore, I feel like I miss out a bit because of my "claustrophobia". I feel that if I were not "socially claustrophobic", I would enjoy life more, I would experience life more "to the fullest".
That is why I try to openly talk about it: you never know who might help you look at things differently and, with that, help you overcome challenges.
On a positive note, since my transitioning, I have been able to overcome a lot of my OCD related problems, and I am indeed starting to not let my fears control what I do and, especially, what I don't do. Make sense?
Hello Andrea,
makes perfect sense.
I experience my gender dysphoria as a dysphoria, as not being able to enjoy being a man to the fullest, but feeling instead alienated by being in a wrong body, life and so on.
For me transsexualism is not only being born in the wrong body, its like shining in to the otherness of a female being. Why am i not her? why am i not like this woman there? Its like an envy.
A feeling like i would swap my body with every woman.
This is a experience of absence, what should be there. There should be a full man. Or a full woman. But there is only me: Me with my disruption, my inner conflict. Being in a male body feeling not male. Maybe even feeling i should not even be male. Maybe even feeling i should be a female.
We all struggle with the experience of being born into bondage, of being not free, of not being who we are destined to be.
We all experience absence, nothingness, its some kind experience of of dying, death, life not at all at the fullest.
But i believe this all belongs to life, not only experience of the fullest, but also experience of lacking.
I try to handle my transsexualism by thinking about it, studying my feelings, raise my gender awareness, try to learn from others, try to learn to be human, free myself, face my fears.
Many little steps, many little steps to free yourself,
to become who and what you are destined to be.
"This above all: to thine ownself be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man." (Shakespeare)
Or as Churchill once put it :
"Never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, give up.
Never give up. Never give up. Never give up."
With kind regards
Angelats
Quote from: angelats on June 16, 2013, 04:08:27 PM
Hi Donna,
about enjoying life in Berlin, "the 3rd biggest Turkish city in the world".
This is a tough question.
Because there are many good things in multicultural Berlin like for example
the carnival of cultures, a "proud expression of hybrid cultural identities".
But there are also problems with integration and parallel societies.
For example a young Turkish woman was shot to death by a brother,
because she wanted to live a modern life on her own and not a life of traditional life style,
in which first her father, then her man and then her son tells her what to do.
So there are pros and cons to this topic.
Just my two cents.
With warm regards
Angelats
Ich danke dir, Angela, thank you Angela: those are my thoughts exactly. Very well put together! :-)
Andrea
Hi AngelaTS,
First and foremost, I would like to tell you how sorry I am to read that you were sexually abused... :-( I am indeed speechless and I offer you my sympathy (das, also "Sympathy", heißt ja "Mitleid" auf Englisch, und nicht "Sympathie", gell!! Das ist ja einer von den sogenannten "falschen Freunden", so zu sagen, aber das war dir schon bekannt, oder?), which, of course is not really much but it is truly all I can do. :-( One word of advice, though: transsexuality is usually a genetic thing, meaning you were born with it, and no trauma in the world can usually cause it. If I am wrong about this, please, anybody, correct me.
Thanks for quick explanation of your whereabouts, and, once again, thanks for giving Donna Elvira a very good answer, an answer that totally represents my feelings exactly.
Thanks also for your continuous words of encouragement! I Really appreciate your advice! :-)
Last, but not least: der Sepp, also der Deutsche Papst, is scho a waschechter Bayer, gell, der is jo in Marktl am Inn geboren, Oberbayern, ned Niederbayern!!!! :-) :-)
(For the non German speakers: Last but not least: the Sepp, i.e. the German Pope, is a bona fide Bayer, he was born in Marktl am Inn, Upper Bavaria, not Lower Bavaria)
Take care,
Andrea
Quote from: NotThereYet on June 16, 2013, 09:43:36 PM
Hi AngelaTS,
First and foremost, I would like to tell you how sorry I am to read that you were sexually abused... :-( I am indeed speechless and I offer you my sympathy (das, also "Sympathy", heißt ja "Mitleid" auf Englisch, und nicht "Sympathie", gell!! Das ist ja einer von den sogenannten "falschen Freunden", so zu sagen, aber das war dir schon bekannt, oder?), which, of course is not really much but it is truly all I can do. :-( One word of advice, though: transsexuality is usually a genetic thing, meaning you were born with it, and no trauma in the world can usually cause it. If I am wrong about this, please, anybody, correct me.
Thanks for quick explanation of your whereabouts, and, once again, thanks for giving Donna Elvira a very good answer, an answer that totally represents my feelings exactly.
Thanks also for your continuous words of encouragement! I Really appreciate your advice! :-)
Last, but not least: der Sepp, also der Deutsche Papst, is scho a waschechter Bayer, gell, der is jo in Marktl am Inn geboren, Oberbayern, ned Niederbayern!!!! :-) :-)
(For the non German speakers: Last but not least: the Sepp, i.e. the German Pope, is a bona fide Bayer, he was born in Marktl am Inn, Upper Bavaria, not Lower Bavaria)
Take care,
Andrea
Thank you, dear Andrea for your kind words.
We all have to live with what happened to us. I just told this to tell truly what delayed my transition then. Now i think different about my feelings, self perception and even about gender dysphoria.
IMHO to be true i really do not know what causes transsexuality. I have opinions, experiences, thoughts, theories about this topic, but i have no convincing theory about transsexuality at all. All this biological stuff like genetics, although its very important to consider, does not convince me at all.
I have had a good education in philosophy and religion and parapsychology and so i have an alternative, different viewpoint to biology. Culture and meaning play a great role for me in thinking and experience of the differences of gender, not only genetics.
For example there is a very interesting documentation about the newest scientific theories about male and female brains...sadly only in German:
http://www.3sat.de/mediathek/index.php?display=1&mode=play&obj=36544 (http://www.3sat.de/mediathek/index.php?display=1&mode=play&obj=36544)
"transsexuality is usually a genetic thing, meaning you were born with it, and no trauma in the world can usually cause it. If I am wrong about this, please, anybody, correct me."
To be true i do not know. And i doubt the genetic explanation. For example I have met two persons with klinefelter syndrome. Their genetic disposition was the same, but their lives and their choices concerning sex and gender and how to live their lives were quite different.
I do not know, whether i was born with transsexuality. I only know i can describe my earliest childhood memories similar to those that call themselves transsexual. In my opinion i do have memories and experiences of a mtf transsexual. But i do draw a different conclusion.
For example i am not sure at all, that i will be a happy post op woman, after everything settles after - lets say - five years. As long i am not sure, i am happy for the rest of my life with transition, i try with all my might to resist.
I take the topic of srs regrets very serious, for example:
http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html (http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/Warning.html)
But i truly think there are ts that transition and it seems the best for them, but i am not sure it is for me, that is all, i know.
Abuse is just a different topic that has at first nothing to do with transsexuality. But when i had gender therapy then, it was a topic discussed, that it could cause transsexuality.
I truly think you are a wonderful person, very brave in facing your fears and trying to free yourself, but also a very loving and caring person.
The same i think of Donna, who has gone a remarkable way.
When i did wrote: " i grew up in Lower Bavaria, close to the town where pope Ratzinger was born.",
i referred my growing up to Lower Bavaria, but did not want to suggest, that the pope was born in Lower Bavaria too. Only that his birthplace is close to mine. (Less than 15 miles away).
with kind regards
Angelats
Don't know if this is the best place to post this but since it is another very significant milestone for me, I guess putting in my personal introduction is as good a place as any.
So, today I had lunch with my boss who also happens to be the GM of the company I work for. There were a few work issues to discuss but the conversation quickly moved to more personal subjects, as much about him as about me as it happens. We are both very fond of the author John Irving and he is presently reading J.I's latest book, "In one person" and, since he knows about my personal situation, (I came out to him early March) he said it made him think about me. BTW, I have not yet read the book in question but, in thanks to J.I. for what followed, I have just ordered it this evening :)
I asked him to explain and he told me a bit about the story which is about a bisexual guy and he associated this with my own quest to accept my gender identity.
The conversation wandered from one subject to another through most of the lunch, all about books, John Irving's but quite a few others too and what they had meant to us. The discussion brought is into some quite personal territory and finally, in a completely unexpected manner, got back to me.
Almost out of the blue, he told me that he had thought about my situation quite a bit since I came out and finally was OK to support my transition on the job, that it was my decision when to go but once I made it he would use all his power and influence to insure that I faced no discrimination.
Outwardly I stayed very calm but inside I was bubbling so much I could have either squealed for joy or burst out crying, maybe even both!
His only concern was about my presentation as a woman, his fear that I might show up at work like a drag queen... ::) I reassured him about this and suggested that we have dinner together sometime so that he saw what I was like presenting as a woman. Not only did he think it was a great idea, he proposed we do it together with our respective spouses. (Afterthought: Maybe he wants her to provide him with an opinion on my credibility as a woman??)
After that we even got into some of the practical issues like timing and we agreed that first step should be with my immediate colleagues when I get back from vacation mid-november. The reason for this date is I will be doing a face lift late October which will add the finishing touches to the FFS I did summers 2011 & 2012. By highlighting the work that was done on my chin and jaw, this final step should make my face that much more obviously feminine as to make the subject pretty well unavoidable no matter what.
Overall, for me the moral of this story is that patience and focus on first doing the job we are hired to do really does pay. I had hoped to get to this point by the autumn but finally it has arrived earlier than expected without any need to force the issue.
If that wasn't enough for one day, the sun was shining brighly and totally energized by this turn of events, I had a really productive afternoon at work.
Vive la vie!
Donna
Donna,
What wonderful news that is. You must be really happy about this. Things are really coming together now.
I am so happy for you.
Love,
Ciara.
Donna, I knew that it was an unsettling concern lurking in the back of your mind, so you can breathe freely now. As for his bringing his wife, I would want to bring my wife if I was invited to dinner by another woman. He's seeing you as a woman and this is a surefire acknowledgement of that, so naturally he would be concerned about how things would look if he went to dine with two women and left her at home alone. You will have to see yourself through his eyes and accept what he is seeing. What a huge blessing, I am so pleased for you Donna!
Ciara & Shantel,
Thank you for your kind messages. Yes I am delighted and yes, even if I was optimistic about the final outcome, the issue was always wrankling at the back of my mind. As it happens, I believe my boss may have received some feedback about how I am perceived by others as when I said I doubted anyone would be surprised by my coming out, he agreed immediately.
So, a few more months of patience and an interesting session with my mostly male colleagues in perspective. Even in this area though, to date all of my male friends have been very understanding and even supportive about what I am doing and if anything, my opinion of men in general has improved quite a bit through this whole experience. Actually, my feelings about people in general have improved, maybe just because I am that much more at peace with myself.
Warm regards.
Donna
P.S. Shantel, you interpretation is very kind but I really don't believe my boss pereceives me as a woman yet... :) However he said one thing yesterday that blew me over, he said he simply couldn't see himself getting in the way of me being myself....
Quote from: Donna Elvira on June 15, 2013, 12:11:16 PM
No problem Shan,
I was simply pleasantly surprised by how much German I still understand as, while I hear quite a lot of the language since arriving here in Alsace 2 years ago, I haven't really used German since I was a student, mnay, many years ago...
Don't worry by the way, we didn't say anything disagreable about you or anyone else... :)
Bises
Donna
No, no, no. We are an international site and we have Google Translate ... up there ^
If members want to converse or post in a language other than English - that's great. Our Aussies do it all the time. ;)
Quote from: Jamie D on July 06, 2013, 12:01:10 PM
No, no, no. We are an international site and we have Google Translate ... up there ^
If members want to converse or post in a language other than English - that's great. Our Aussies do it all the time. ;)
LOL!!! :D ;D :laugh:
:icon_drunk: :icon_peace:
Quote from: Donna Elvira on July 02, 2013, 11:08:46 PM
Ciara & Shantel,
Thank you for your kind messages. Yes I am delighted and yes, even if I was optimistic about the final outcome, the issue was always wrankling at the back of my mind. As it happens, I believe my boss may have received some feedback about how I am perceived by others as when I said I doubted anyone would be surprised by my coming out, he agreed immediately.
P.S. Shantel, you interpretation is very kind but I really don't believe my boss pereceives me as a woman yet... :) However he said one thing yesterday that blew me over, he said he simply couldn't see himself getting in the way of me being myself....
Just a little epilogue to the above exchange....
I arrived in Montreal yesterday and in spite of being held up for a few minutes at passport control and then immigration (first time it has ever happened to me) there was no problem.
During the flight over, I started reading the book "In one person" that my boss had referred to last Monday and quickly understood why it had got him thinking about me. The main character is a bissexual male who just happens to have a fascination for trans women and the first trans woman he has a serious relationship with is called......wait for it: "Donna" :)
If that wasn't enough, after I arrived at my hotel and freshening up a bit, I went out to get a bite to eat before going to bed. As I am on a business trip, for the weekend I am dressed androgynous female ie. women's jeans, women's linen blouse, women's walking shoes...but the light blue blouse was transparent enough to see the outline of a simple white bra. I also wear very light make-up around the eyes and lips but really very discreet. To finish, I was carrying a cardigan and a small red purse in my hand.
Anyway, while waiting for the elevator to go down to the lobby, a very good looking woman in her mid-forties arrived with a young girl. She smiled at me and I smiled back, much the way any two women would under such circumstances.
Just as the elevator arrived, who should arrive but my boss. I was taken very much by surprise, as was he I think, as he had never yet seen me in quite such a "femme" mode. Nevertheless, he introduced his wife and daugher and to evacuate the awkwardness I immediately told him I had started reading "In one person" and already understood why it had made him think of me. That worked and conversation quicky changed to what was worth doing here in Montreal today.
No problem at the end of the day and now his wife has seen me too so I guess that sort of breaks the ice for next time... :)
Warm regards.
Donna
Donna,
How exciting! It seems as if someone up there is looking out for you and paving the way for your footsteps. I could easily visualize what you were wearing and how you looked, given the circumstances that was a perfect presentation and as you say should make future meetings much easier and more relaxed. So cool!
Quote from: Shantel on July 07, 2013, 08:51:27 AM
Donna,
How exciting! It seems as if someone up there is looking out for you and paving the way for your footsteps. I could easily visualize what you were wearing and how you looked, given the circumstances that was a perfect presentation and as you say should make future meetings much easier and more relaxed. So cool!
I don't know if there is someone looking out for me up there but a couple of times, yes, I'd have to agree that I seem to have a good guardian angel, starting with finding my present position just as I lost the previous one.
Bises
Donna