Well I post my positive occasions to keep morale up, well I hope I keep morale up.
So I should post the negatives.
BTW I was rude in my response so please people take care. I retaliated.
I was in an Ikea store - I think they are all over the world - and looking for some furniture. As usual I was feeling good. I was wearing a blouse, skirt, boots, I thought I looked nice.
I was wandering around and had met many people and talked to a few as well. I had been referred to by female pronouns by staff and customers and I was in a good mood, as usual.
Then this middle aged couple walked towards me and she said - loudly - 'That's a man!'
Geex it p'eed me off.
I just stopped and said. 'I was born into the wrong body - you're fat and ugly; what's your excuse?'
To be honest, I still felt very nice and calm. She was shocked.
I'm ashamed to say I didn't care.
Oh Well
Cindy
Good for you in standing up for yourself. I don't blame you being rude, many people just don't stand up for themselves and let others trample all over them for whatever reason. However you are not one to be messed with. ;D
What an insensative "bitch" though.
Great comeback though sis.
J
You're far more polite than I would have been Cindy!
Good for you.....totally ..
I wouldn't feel bad about it, or bad about responding.
I mean, it's not like it's okay to shout out 'hey a disabled person' each time you see someone in a wheelchair, is it? Or 'oh look a black person'.
Just got to accept that there's more idiots out there in society than trans folk and if you have to bring attention in any way to a stranger's appearance that's exactly what you are - an idiot.
Good for you. I probably would have started to cry right in front of them. I don't think that would have been as effective.
lol. ^^ me too
What rude people. You were right to say what you did to them. They totally deserved it.
I am functionally stealth but a long time ago I was dressed in work clothes (coveralls, boots, no makeup, hair tucked under a cap) and standing with a group of men, engaged in what one might assume to be a male activity, when a group of older teenage boys walked close by and I heard one of the boys comment "Is that a guy or a girl?" and I saw my friends' eyebrows go up. I turned to the young man and said "Whichever you are looking for, I am the opposite!". Everybody, (except the first young man) laughed out loud and the questioner slunk away with his head down.
I liked your response to these idiots cindy. To me it wasn't rude in the least little bit as a matter of fact they deserved it. I see it this way, don't go looking for trouble unless you want to find it. Like Tom Kieffer from Cindrella said or sang, " If you live in a glass house, don't go throwin' rocks at me."
Well, hopefully that lady will think twice before calling out/insulting a trans person again.
The Christian in me wants to say "well, I guess the best response would have been to take the high road and just be nice," but seriously, they deserved it. Who the hell tries to embarrass someone in public for no reason like that? Freaking a**holes...
And yeah, I'm glad you were able to deal with it. You have so much self-confidence, it's inspiring. If someone did that to me, I seriously would have spent the entire afternoon in bed crying, and it probably would have taken me months to get the confidence back up to go in public again.
I agree that she deserved the insult back! I am glad that you are not feeling bad about yourself as a result of her indiscretions.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on May 16, 2013, 01:14:35 PM
The Christian in me wants to say "well, I guess the best response would have been to take the high road and just be nice," but seriously, they deserved it. Who the hell tries to embarrass someone in public for no reason like that? Freaking a**holes...
And yeah, I'm glad you were able to deal with it. You have so much self-confidence, it's inspiring. If someone did that to me, I seriously would have spent the entire afternoon in bed crying, and it probably would have taken me months to get the confidence back up to go in public again.
Carrie, the biggest Christian in the world got pissed and overturned the moneychanger's table at the temple almost 2000 years ago. So I think Christ would understand. ;)
I love you, Cindy, and never doubt you would stand up for yourself. But no matter how many times we crunch the numbers, two wrongs don't make a right. You missed an opportunity, sis. Hugs, Devlyn
We never know how we are going to react to a "situation" on any given day. One day we might blow up, on another day we might let it slide.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on May 16, 2013, 01:48:04 PM
I love you, Cindy, and never doubt you would stand up for yourself. But no matter how many times we crunch the numbers, two wrongs don't make a right. You missed an opportunity, sis. Hugs, Devlyn
No, no, no this is wrong. If she isn't given the shock of an insult, she will not realise what she is doing. The next person she insults like that could be a young trans person or gay kid, struggling with their identity. Walking down the road having people say things like can push people over the edge.
People treat you how you teach them to treat you. If you leave it, saying nothing, she learns that it is OK to insult people like us and the people who observed it learn this too. It was the right thing to do, to stand up for yourself. If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything.
Quote from: Steph21 on May 16, 2013, 02:27:58 PM
No, no, no this is wrong. If she isn't given the shock of an insult, she will not realise what she is doing. The next person she insults like that could be a young trans person or gay kid, struggling with their identity. Walking down the road having people say things like can push people over the edge.
People treat you how you teach them to treat you. If you leave it, saying nothing, she learns that it is OK to insult people like us and the people who observed it learn this too. It was the right thing to do, to stand up for yourself. If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything.
But at the end of the day, we have two people who were insulted for being who are they are. How does that make the world a better place? Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on May 16, 2013, 02:33:57 PM
But at the end of the day, we have two people who were insulted for being who are they are. How does that make the world a better place? Hugs, Devlyn
Maybe they will think twice before they say something so blatently insulting. Also since Cindy pointed out their faults and shortcomings (see my last post about a glass house) they may learn a little bit about compassion and or not think themselves so perfect.
Oh and by the way, we only have two cheeks and eventually if you keep turning them, they will end up bloody and bruised.
Your wrong, Three (3) people were insulted, Cindy was insulted too.
Was she right, probably not, but she reacted, who can say they would not have reacted the same, Not me.
It was a "spur of the moment" thing. It happens, life is like that.
Quote from: Jess42 on May 16, 2013, 03:13:17 PM
Maybe they will think twice before they say something so blatently insulting. Also since Cindy pointed out their faults and shortcomings (see my last post about a glass house) they may learn a little bit about compassion and or not think themselves so perfect.
It is as wrong to ridicule someone for being overweight as it is to ridicule someone for being transgender. Overweight people have self image issues just like we do. Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Sarah Louise on May 16, 2013, 03:17:29 PM
Your wrong, Three (3) people were insulted, Cindy was insulted too.
Was she right, probably not, but she reacted, who can say they would not have reacted the same, Not me.
It was a "spur of the moment" thing. It happens, life is like that.
Sarah, the two people I was referring to were Cindy and the overweight woman. Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on May 16, 2013, 02:33:57 PM
But at the end of the day, we have two people who were insulted for being who are they are. How does that make the world a better place? Hugs, Devlyn
It teaches her that we will not simply be insulted without cost. It shows the people around her that Cindy was not ashamed of who she is.
He hee! Honestly this made me smile. I am too sensitive in myself to have the guts to reply to a bigot in such a swift way, although occasionally I can. Cheers to you :)
Actually Cindy did exactly what I would have done. Good for you, Cindy.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on May 16, 2013, 03:18:37 PM
It is as wrong to ridicule someone for being overweight as it is to ridicule someone for being transgender. Overweight people have self image issues just like we do. Hugs, Devlyn
You are 100% right Devlyn, it is wrong to ridicule someone for weight issues as it is for gender issues. I don't do it for any issues people may have. But the minute the lady insulted Cindy, all bets are off. I wouldn't let someone slap me and get away with it, I would have to try and defend myself. Same thing with words. And I still say, they might have learned something from the ordeal in that the way they made Cindy feel, they now know how it feels and may never do it again.
Quote from: Jess42 on May 16, 2013, 03:39:51 PM
You are 100% right Devlyn, it is wrong to ridicule someone for weight issues as it is for gender issues. I don't do it for any issues people may have. But the minute the lady insulted Cindy, all bets are off. I wouldn't let someone slap me and get away with it, I would have to try and defend myself. Same thing with words. And I still say, they might have learned something from the ordeal in that the way they made Cindy feel, they now know how it feels and may never do it again.
Possibly, or possibly it could be the straw that broke the camels back. Being hurt is not a license to lash out and hurt others. Hugs, Devlyn
I think Cindy's response was appropriate and in proportion.I grew up where if you didn't respond to an insult with your fists you'd better do it with your mouth or spend the rest of your life being a punchbag
And after that wonderful account of your mechanic who left flowers in your car? >:(
I guess my only advice - and take it for what it's worth with me being a neophyte - is to look on the good times and ignore the bad.
That said, I think most people live lives that are so sheltered and compartmentalized that trans issues just aren't on their radar. They might not know how to react, which makes your reaction to their vocalizations highly appropriate.
By doing what you did, you might have saved one of us from subsequent comments. So thanks for standing up and berating - or rather, educating - those dummies!
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on May 16, 2013, 03:45:31 PM
Possibly, or possibly it could be the straw that broke the camels back. Being hurt is not a license to lash out and hurt others. Hugs, Devlyn
I've got to give it to you, you are just a sweet person. There is no way that I can even begin to think the way you do. The world needs many more people like you. Hugs back.
A lot of my soul agrees with my sister Devlyn's comment. I wasn't strong enough and my response was instant.
But I also reserve my right to defend myself.
Lets not get into unpleasant discussion on this, that would embarrass me.
Hugs
Cindy
I'm glad everything is okay now.
It's also worth bearing in mind that we're not discussing a considered or measured response but an emotional reaction to something that happened on the spot.
Not sure about anyone else but while I do make an effort to 'take the high road' I will also admit that I sometimes fail and sometimes do or say things I probably wouldn't do given more time for consideration.
I'm human. So too is Cindy.
You go girl! Freedom of speech goes both ways, you gotta take what you give, and that lady got what she deserved.
:)
Cindy, you are a strong person. The comment would have hurt me deeply. I respect your no nonsence response. If I am strong and in public, some day, I will need to practice some responses to nasty people.
If I were a GG I would demand my female privlidge ( from "My Gender Workbook", by Kate Barnstein). How to word it and what to say I would need to think and practice. Huuum, there is so much to think about.
I got called out in the same way across a shoe store when I was just starting to go out as a woman. On the train ride home I thought, "I should have said walked over to her and said, 'Well, at least I'm a lot more lady like than you!'" or something. Instead, I sheepishly left.
More recently I did do my, "Sir? Really?" + glare to a clerk who intentionally misgendered me. It's tricky standing up for yourself well in the moment.
lol. Im gonna file that one away so I can use it later. Good job
I find this thread extremely interesting in how different people would have responded and how other's have responded in similar situations.
I myself am starting to think that we a group (even though I hate grouping people together) have more diversity in our thinking and actions than any other group (ughh, there's that word again) in society. And that is a very good thing.
Misato. In the fisrt part, I have been in the same situation in all diferrent spectrums and thinking what you should have said or done later. All the times it made me feel worst by not standing up for myself. The second part showed more of an assertiveness instead of aggressiveness. Bravo to you.
I think the key to situations like these are to be assertive and acknowledge that the person tresspassed on your feelings or whatever else and don't allow them to get away with it scottfree.
Agrression may breed more aggression from the other party just depending upon how arrogant they are in their feelings of being right.
I face rude, arrogant, unpleasant and just plain old idiotic people everyday with my work. This has nothing to do with being transgendered though but can be applied to any situation. These people think they can get away with anything they say because they are the customer and all I am is a driver delivering their stuff. I used to let it go and would feel horrible later on down the road in "I should have said this or that" or a number of other things.
I have also been aggressive with the same type of people, Nothing good ever came from it. Sure I felt better but they would call and complain and then I would have to explain myself, which all times I was in the right and the people I work with backed me up because I am not a rude A-hole always looking for a fight.
Now I am more assertive in that I will not let them talk to me or look upon me like I am scum of the earth or crawled out of a cesspool. Now when they complain about me being what they consider late, I enforce the idea that there are other vehicles on the road, that a truck doesn't run under sheer willpower and needs fuel, that I have rules and regs to go by that doesn't even pertain to them or their industry in general, that my license is my livelyhood and that I can't drive 90MPH because I will lose that license, that I have bodily needs and functions too. I will also ask then if they ate lunch and tell them I ain't no robot and need to eat too. I gotta pee when I gotta pee. The number one closer if all the other stuff fails to make them understand is that I will tell them that the last time I tried to walk on water, I damn near drowned and instilling the idea that I can't work miracles. I say all of this without an ounce of aggression in my tone, but looking them straight in the eyes while saying it. I can tell, they still don't like it but will back off rather quickly, but really, what can they say.
There are still other's that call in and the company will tell me about it but don't even ask my side, because when the person calling in explains what I told them, they tell the person that I am 100% correct.
I am and have never been an aggresive person, but was starting to meet aggression with aggression. Now that I use assertiveness when somone else is being aggresive toward me, it kind of knocks the wind out of their sails and they really don't know how to react. Assertion carries with it an air of confidence, even though you may not feel it. When you are calm and cool in a normal tone telling them how wrong they are, I think they think twice and it kinda' scares them that they can't get a rise out of you. All they are doing is pushing you into an argument so that they can call in and complain about you. And I feel better because I didn't allow them to make me feel bad about myself an hour down the road and stood up for myself at the same time.
I still applaud Cindy. It was an off the cuff reaction and she stood up for herself and in no way, hon, should you feel bad about it. If I was in the same situation though, I probably would have said to the lady, "Oh yeah, What makes you so special, Ma'am? I can see just as many faults with you as you can with me." And then take it from there.
Anyway, just a little I have learned about using assertion compared with aggression.
And Devlyn, you are so right, two wrongs do not make a right. But if you can assertively point out a wrong that a person is doing, you have one right and one wrong and the balance is restored. Hopefully it will let the one in the wrong see that what they did is indeed wrong and the next time it may not happen. We all need to look in the mirror sometimes and if I can suggest to someone to look at themselves and see their own faults, then they may become more humble.
I don't really know how I'd react if someone was nasty to me...
I suppose I am lucky in that have my mum to keep me company out walking or going places etc. I suppose everyones different, think there's probably a part of me would want to shout and scream at them, like "who are you to judge me" type of thing. People just do NOT know what we've all been through to accept ourselves, it's hard to put it into words for me but if anyone says anything I'd politely tell them it's this or I'm dead.
Yesterday walking down the road I got some looks and stuff but it wasn't terrible or anything - even the teenagers were ok just alittle bemused. I think my height does give me away, but I can't have my legs cut down so that won't be changing anytime soon lol
I think if you feel confident on the inside that's what really counts and shows on the outside - so others are less likely to say anything. Even if there was whispering behind my back I'd rather just not hear it tbh... everyone has there own opinion.
In a way while they deserved a harsh reply, the thing is that to hurt others feelings is not the best way to win people over. Strife is easy to return with more strife.
Quote from: Cindy. on May 16, 2013, 04:38:39 AM
...Then this middle aged couple walked towards me and she said - loudly - 'That's a man!'
Cindy:
The fact that they walked toward you and said it in a loud voice was tantamount to an attack. They wanted to humiliate and belittle you. In public.
I hope you also responded in a loud voice too so that all could hear.
Actually your response was quite reserved and forbearing. You could have gone all "Aunt Cindy" on them and there wouldn't have been anything left but their boots!
Bullying is never appropriate, by anyone.
Thank you for standing tall!
-Sandy
Cindy I really appreciate your assertiveness and confidence. Your situation reminds me to have some witticisms practiced and available for just such an event. Too often I am just sort of shocked and do the slow burn while thinking of a million better responses. I do not want to hurt anyone and too often stifle myself so that I don't get all ballistic and loud. This is also an opportunity for education and learning?
Hindsight and hindspeak are so much easier to arrange?
Hugs,
Tessa James
For some people, they'll be shocked by your assertiveness, and if you say something clever, they may even learn something.
But then some people won't hear the content of your response, all they'll know is that you said something "rude" and go on hating us trans people just the same.
And then there are some who'll feel bad about what they said if you respond in a kind or forgiving manner.
But then others will perceive that kindness as weakness and go on hating us just as much as before.
So it's a real toss up... What to do? I myself would just get out of that situation. :P run away!!!!!
"An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind." [Mahatma Gandhi]
Theoretically, better not to answer back as rude as others are. To have a clever discussion it's better to have it calm !
But if that happen to me... I'll probably be twice as rude as you were ! (probably because I'm not under hrt yet and my T will overwhelm my whole body in that situation making me entering a berserk mode ^^)
It's not so bad to educate this kind of rude people !
Congratulation ;D
Good for you, Cindy! That takes courage to stand up for yourself like that! Aha I can't even correct people when they misgender me so seriously, good for you! :D
Awesome!!! I take my hat off to you, or would I I were wearing one. :D
--Jay