how do ftm feel about mtf?
My best friend is MTF. :) Although, I'd feel the same about her if she was cis. She's just been there for the majority of my transition, and she's gotten to see my highs and lows, and because she has been through them herself, she is able to really understand how much these things mean to me and how far I have come.
This one is very sweet and cute :)
Boy-Girl Meets Girl-Boy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g35kGQGwwM8#)
Back when I was 13 or so, I used to go to this youth group for lgbt kids (at the time I was identifying as L) and made friends with two trans girls. I also had a massive crush on one of them ;) And really what struck me most even at that age was how they were just normal girls who happened to have male bodies.
At a time when I was convinced I just needed to try harder and I would feel like a girl, it was eye opening to see that the way we express gender really does show in all the little ways and isn't changeable. They were my first real exposure to trans life beyond the sob stories you see on talk shows and I don't know if I would've had the courage to come out if I hadn't seen them transition. Well it would've taken me longer at least.
Basically, I have nothing but respect and admiration for mtf ladies :)
Quote from: Prof HB on July 01, 2013, 02:04:52 AM
My best friend is MTF. :) Although, I'd feel the same about her if she was cis. She's just been there for the majority of my transition, and she's gotten to see my highs and lows, and because she has been through them herself, she is able to really understand how much these things mean to me and how far I have come.
I feel the same way. Yes, im a bit further ahead, but, most of the problems Caleb has faced, I have too. He is an amazing guy. Having him here in Indiana was one of the best weeks of my life. He just fit right in like he was meant to be a part of my life. And for the first time ever, I have a friend I trust completely who understands me.
I don't think anything... they're just people. The only emotion I can recall being sparked by trans women as a collective group of people was irritation at their typing style, which is exactly the same irritation I get when I read status updates from cis women on facebook. Then it makes me realise just how deep being trans goes, and it's comforting to know it's in our subconsciousness and not just our heads.
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 04:55:38 PM
I don't think anything... they're just people. The only emotion I can recall being sparked by trans women as a collective group of people was irritation at their typing style, which is exactly the same irritation I get when I read status updates from cis women on facebook. Then it makes me realise just how deep being trans goes, and it's comforting to know it's in our subconsciousness and not just our heads.
What typing style? I'm curious...
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 01, 2013, 05:11:15 PM
What typing style? I'm curious...
Me too :) I wanna know :)
Not that I mind or anything, but these threads seem to pop up a lot for some reason.
Eh, I am in the "I don't care about anyone's gender identity" camp. You can't really lump all mtf individuals into a group. It seems like it would be kind of sexist to make assumptions about all women, trans or cis.
I do have one friend who is mtf.
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 01, 2013, 05:11:15 PM
What typing style? I'm curious...
Quote from: Sammy on July 01, 2013, 05:12:51 PM
Me too :) I wanna know :)
I've never been able to quite put my finger on it... there's just a subtle difference between men and women that I've noticed when reading things they've written informally on the internet. Maybe it's that women tend to write a little less formally than men, even when not required to, throw in more smilies and exclamation marks and maybe you'd be getting somewhere close... it's more subtle than that though and I can't pinpoint it precisely.
Honestly, if I knew exactly what it was I'd have made a thread talking about it, because I find it as interesting as the next person. Give me two years and I might be able to tell you the answer.
/makes mental note/ Need moar exclamation marks!!! Yay :) !!!11!
How do I feel about transwomen?
That's a vague question. I guess I feel about them like I would any other woman except for one thing. Since they're also trans there is a deeper level of understanding between us and them, (versus with a cis female) I would assume. I'm sure that's not apparent in every situation but generally speaking I would think it would be the case.
I think they're brave, strong, and unique women.
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 05:58:26 PM
I've never been able to quite put my finger on it... there's just a subtle difference between men and women that I've noticed when reading things they've written informally on the internet. Maybe it's that women tend to write a little less formally than men, even when not required to, throw in more smilies and exclamation marks and maybe you'd be getting somewhere close... it's more subtle than that though and I can't pinpoint it precisely.
Honestly, if I knew exactly what it was I'd have made a thread talking about it, because I find it as interesting as the next person. Give me two years and I might be able to tell you the answer.
As usual the boys don't understand how we comunicate
Its kind of cute to me :-)
On the flip side ....reading ftm..is um. Dry to the point
Cold edgy...
The opposite of what we are
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 05:58:26 PM
I've never been able to quite put my finger on it... there's just a subtle difference between men and women that I've noticed when reading things they've written informally on the internet. Maybe it's that women tend to write a little less formally than men, even when not required to, throw in more smilies and exclamation marks and maybe you'd be getting somewhere close... it's more subtle than that though and I can't pinpoint it precisely.
Honestly, if I knew exactly what it was I'd have made a thread talking about it, because I find it as interesting as the next person. Give me two years and I might be able to tell you the answer.
I kinda sorta understand where you are going with this. I have friends of both genders and when I read the posts I can generally figure out if it is a guy or a girl. This makes me wonder though what my typing says about me.
-shrug-
who knows.
i would absolutely date a mtf for 3 reasons-1 they r beautiful 2- they can 100% understand you i mean we have the same problem (gender) 3-they r more girly than cis womens and i find that so amazing
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 05:58:26 PM
I've never been able to quite put my finger on it... there's just a subtle difference between men and women that I've noticed when reading things they've written informally on the internet. Maybe it's that women tend to write a little less formally than men, even when not required to, throw in more smilies and exclamation marks and maybe you'd be getting somewhere close... it's more subtle than that though and I can't pinpoint it precisely.
Honestly, if I knew exactly what it was I'd have made a thread talking about it, because I find it as interesting as the next person. Give me two years and I might be able to tell you the answer.
It's funny you should mention exclamation points. I am a magazine editor so I used to hatehatehate exclamation points because I saw them as lazy and someone using a crutch to get their point across. But lately I can't help myself at all! Prolly because i'm loads more enthusiastic about life. But I've always used smiley faces. Lots of em. hehehe ;D
Quote from: Simon on July 01, 2013, 06:29:48 PM
How do I feel about transwomen?
That's a vague question. I guess I feel about them like I would any other woman except for one thing. Since they're also trans there is a deeper level of understanding between us and them, (versus with a cis female) I would assume. I'm sure that's not apparent in every situation but generally speaking I would think it would be the case.
I think they're brave, strong, and unique women.
Simon,
I think that yours and jossef-ftm's comments are really nice and kind of uplifting, I've often felt the same way about FtM's but I've noticed that generally when I complement someone or say something nice to someone on an FtM thread it get's totally ignored as if someone had farted in a crowded elevator. I know it's not my problem and that it's theirs because I've always been very accepting of FtM comments on MtF threads and find them valuable input at times because I realize that they had lived a portion of their lives as females albeit dysphoric and they should know what they're talking about. Meanwhile that idea is a two way street, I lived the first 50 years of my life as a rather very manly male and sure know what I'm talking about if I say that you look good and are hitting on masculinity in your photos. Hope people will be big enough to acknowledge a complement from someone well versed in what masculinity is all about.
I hear a lot of people talking about how they hate exclamation points, and can you guess their typical gender ?? ::) I know most writing style guides will look down on them, but I'm sorry, they work great for expression! I kind of get annoyed by that opinion and I think people that hate exclamation points should rethink!! ! !!!!!!!! !! !
But I agree there is more to the differences between male an female writing than that, Alexander, but it's hard for me to figure out them out too. I can always tell the sex of writers though. I am always impressed when a man can write a woman so she sounds like a woman, it really is that rare!
If I were to try to boil the differences down I would say that women typically think about people where guys typically think about things, and that shapes how they use language. I think you will see a lot of personal pronouns with women (I, you, she,) where with men you will see lots of words that describe things (the, that, it.) I think this just scratches the surface, but that is a place to start? Obviously I'm generalizing and talking about how people write and think ON AVERAGE, I don't mean everybody fits a mold.
Quote from: Simon on July 01, 2013, 06:29:48 PM
How do I feel about transwomen?
That's a vague question. I guess I feel about them like I would any other woman except for one thing. Since they're also trans there is a deeper level of understanding between us and them, (versus with a cis female) I would assume. I'm sure that's not apparent in every situation but generally speaking I would think it would be the case.
I think they're brave, strong, and unique women.
I agree with this completely. Transwomen are the same as any other woman. But I do agree that there is the connection that transmen and transwomen have just from understanding what it is like to be trans. It is very hard to explain sometimes to someone who is a cis individual just how hard it can be and what it is like.
Quote from: jossef-ftm on July 01, 2013, 07:02:14 PM
i would absolutely date a mtf for 3 reasons-1 they r beautiful 2- they can 100% understand you i mean we have the same problem (gender) 3-they r more girly than cis womens and i find that so amazing
I agree mostly with this too, even if it does seem flirtatious ;) I have noticed that the majority of transwomen are extremely girly and feminine more so than cis women (while not true in all cases, just something I've noticed). I personally find it amazing how comfortably they can express their femininity yet still be modest about it. And of course there is the beauty that comes along with their looks as well as their minds :3
Trans women are women, my feelings for trans women in general are the same as my feelings towards women in general. Some are cool, some are crummy, some are okay.
I also agree that trans women are no different than 'regular' women. That said, all the annoying crap women do ... trans women do it, too. I've had personal experience with two trans girls. Both of them were obnoxiously immature and self absorbed and very catty. I didn't think much about it because they were behaving like most girls their age (teenagers) do.
I think having friendships with mature MTFs work out a lot better than cis women because they've experienced things from both sides of life.
Quote from: randomroads on July 01, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
I also agree that trans women are no different than 'regular' women. That said, all the annoying crap women do ... trans women do it, too. I've had personal experience with two trans girls. Both of them were obnoxiously immature and self absorbed and very catty. I didn't think much about it because they were behaving like most girls their age (teenagers) do.
I think having friendships with mature MTFs work out a lot better than cis women because they've experienced things from both sides of life.
I LOLed!!!
So a girl is entirely differant...
On the other hand. ..men are egocentric...quick to assert dominance
Over girl....more prone to fighting hehehe
And usually oblivious to the needs of thier romantic interest
Some posts in this thread make me feel all warm and fuzzy :). You guys are awesome!
Quote from: Sammy on July 01, 2013, 06:04:04 PM
/makes mental note/ Need more exclamation marks!!! Yay :) !!!11!
There are topics on the boards, somewhere, about feminine versus masculine writing styles, and also about handwriting.
Feminine communicators tend to use a lot more emoticons too.
Quote from: xchristine on July 01, 2013, 09:30:13 PM
I LOLed!!!
So a girl is entirely differant...
On the other hand. ..men are egocentric...quick to assert dominance
Over girl....more prone to fighting hehehe
And usually oblivious to the needs of thier romantic interest
Men who are quick to assert 'dominance' over anyone aren't asserting anything but their own lack of self confidence. It's a front they put up, just like a cat will puff its tail up to look bigger when it feels threatened.
I pride myself on being oblivious to women's romantic needs. Gay men don't involve themselves with females unless they're in denial or experimenting!
Quote from: Shantel on July 01, 2013, 07:42:01 PM
Simon, I think that yours and jossef-ftm's comments are really nice and kind of uplifting, I've often felt the same way about FtM's but I've noticed that generally when I complement someone or say something nice to someone on an FtM thread it get's totally ignored as if someone had farted in a crowded elevator.
I very rarely go into the MTF forum because I kinda figure it's a space for the women to connect with each other. I think in here it depends on the scope and tone of the discussion if guys are receptive to a woman's input. In the "do I pass" threads I tend to believe that others think there is some ultra sensitivity towards each other going on. So some may not fully believe when someone tells them they pass because the cis world tells them different. Then again some guys just aren't very chatty, I dunno. I do know that nothing is meant to be derogatory by their silence.
Quote from: randomroads on July 01, 2013, 09:21:52 PM
I also agree that trans women are no different than 'regular' women.
They are different from cis women. We are different than cis men. Now don't misread what I am saying. We are not "less than" cis individuals. If anything I think we're better than them (yeah, that's right...I said it) because we have a unique perspective on life and gender. Many of us also don't have family backing us on this. It makes us really strong.
That's very true, Simon, but superficially, when I know someone's an MTF I don't really perceive her as any different unless she's a very awkward person. There's only been one trans woman that I know for sure was trans (she told me) and she still had a long way to go to pass socially even if she was very pretty. If I had the time to get to know the women I've been around I'm sure I'd pick up that they are different. The teenagers that I was around behaved just like any other teenager. All teenagers go through learning who they are. I didn't know the two girls well enough to know more than that but of course they had an extra element to deal with.
My gf is mtf. I have other friends in the group. We aren't as close as the transguys are, but I suppose it is natural.
--Jay
I have a deep and profound respect for them.
In my experience, Gender Dysphoria is the same for both FtMs and MtFs: our deep-seated discomfort might be triggered by different things, but the feeling is the same for us. But I do believe that society (at least, Western society) makes it much more difficult to start out physically male then gradually transition to female, than it does to start out physically female then gradually transition to male.
For a pre-T, pre-surgery FtM, most people would probably just write us off as a 'butch lesbian'. We might get the occasional nasty 'look' from people in public, but they are few and far between - at least, here in the UK.
But in many cases, a pre-HRT, pre-FFS MtF who finds it difficult to pass is subjected to horrible treatment wherever she goes. Many of them have to put up with constant 'looks', stares, pointing, laughing and even violence, simply for having the audacity to step out of the front door & go about their business.
And yet, despite being forced to put up with that level of harassment, they still have the courage to hold their heads high and proudly assert themselves as the women they are. And once they've completed their transition, the adversity they faced along the way has given them a strength of character that few other women could hope to match.
Yeah, I think they're just grand. :)
Quote from: xchristine on July 01, 2013, 09:30:13 PM
I LOLed!!!
So a girl is entirely differant...
On the other hand. ..men are egocentric...quick to assert dominance
Over girl....more prone to fighting hehehe
And usually oblivious to the needs of thier romantic interest
Christine, this is about the millionth post of yours stereotyping men (though mild in comparison to some of your others), and I'm going to kindly ask that you stop. If the men you date are oblivious to your needs and treat you like an orifice (as referenced in your sex posts), you're dating the wrong men.
As to the OP, I love trans women. I never felt comfortable with women until I came here and developed friendships with many of you. It probably has something to do with not being judged as much as I was used to and feeling like I can speak freely. Though I'm starting to meet some great cis women friends as well!
I don't feel anything particular about trans women as a group. It depends on the individual same as with cis women.
Thank you, FA.
its' a very general question.
For me there just women so its up to each person how I feel about them. I guess only negative point would be I feel mtf got more bitch fights than the typical ftm which I have meet, and I think its because MtFs often tend to be in pretty serious problems, like homelessness, violance and stuff like that, where for ftms I just think its more the whole "being visible and mention" who can be a problem.
on the other hands I like speaking emotion topics with many mtf where ftms often seams more interesteed in stuff like where to get homones, bla bla bla thing. Also join the Mtf bord often for that reason.
it seams pretty generalized but yeah as said its up to each person. I prefern when its a mix of ftm-mtf and other trans*folks.
I think most ftms are positive about mtf even when I know a few ignorants who did not like to hang out with mtfs cause it could out there transstatus.
Quote from: Sammy on July 01, 2013, 02:16:28 AM
This one is very sweet and cute :)
Sure. Thanks for sharing the link.
barbie~~
Quote from: Jamie D on July 01, 2013, 09:49:48 PM
There are topics on the boards, somewhere, about feminine versus masculine writing styles, and also about handwriting.
Feminine communicators tend to use a lot more emoticons too.
As I can write English as my second foreign language, I also have been interested in expressing their gender identity in both English and Korean.
Let me say Korean, as it is my native language and more contrasting in gender expression. The Korean language is nuance-oriented, and it is very easy to express your emotion, gender and your age, even without using emoticons or various symbols. An interesting thing I found was that some cis-women tend to try to write in scientific, objective and masculine style, while m2f women tend to intentionally write in feminine way.
Cis-women probably do not feel any need of expressing their femininity in writing. By writing in feminine style, their articles or short essays can easily loose their authenticity. Thus most female writers in newspaper write in more masculine style.
However, in facebook or other SNSs, both men and women tend to write more emotionally, expressing their gender identity easily, but no significant difference in writing style. There are many onomatopoeic words that mimic sounds of women's laugh, but women infrequently use those words in SNSs. It is probably partly because they can express their gender identity by their profile pictures and others. I sometimes try to write in slightly feminine style, but most cis-women would not need to do so.
In English, I do not know well how to write in feminine way. Usually I have written English in scientific style, because I have to publish my papers in scientific journals.
barbie~~
People are people. Why characterise them?
Some of my best friends are human!!! ???? !!!! (some innate biological urge drove me to that??!! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:!!!)
Quote from: barbie on July 02, 2013, 12:50:08 PM
As I can write English as my second foreign language, I also have been interested in expressing their gender identity in both English and Korean.
Let me say Korean, as it is my native language and more contrasting in gender expression. The Korean language is nuance-oriented, and it is very easy to express your emotion, gender and your age, even without using emoticons or various symbols. An interesting thing I found was that some cis-women tend to try to write in scientific, objective and masculine style, while m2f women tend to intentionally write in feminine way.
Cis-women probably do not feel any need of expressing their femininity in writing. By writing in feminine style, their articles or short essays can easily loose their authenticity. Thus most female writers in newspaper write in more masculine style.
However, in facebook or other SNSs, both men and women tend to write more emotionally, expressing their gender identity easily, but no significant difference in writing style. There are many onomatopoeic words that mimic sounds of women's laugh, but women infrequently use those words in SNSs. It is probably partly because they can express their gender identity by their profile pictures and others. I sometimes try to write in slightly feminine style, but most cis-women would not need to do so.
In English, I do not know well how to write in feminine way. Usually I have written English in scientific style, because I have to publish my papers in scientific journals.
barbie~~
Interesting :)
I think for myself, my writing style depends on how I am thinking when I go to write about the subject, and will therefore vary by the type of subject. When I am writing about something that is hard or complicated where I have to turn on the analytical side of my brain to think it through, my writing style probably comes across stilted and masculine-ish, stilted because that is not the default way my mind is rolling along, but for anything else I do go to the default which is (probably?) feminine. On a site like this where I am often having to think deeply, but also am relating equally on a personal levels in other topics I am sure I use both styles a lot. Idk if that jarring or not, but I bet it might be. Y'all would have to tell me I guess. I just write however feels natural.
Depends on the lady. *shrug* :)
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 04:55:38 PM
I don't think anything... they're just people. The only emotion I can recall being sparked by trans women as a collective group of people was irritation at their typing style, which is exactly the same irritation I get when I read status updates from cis women on facebook. Then it makes me realise just how deep being trans goes, and it's comforting to know it's in our subconsciousness and not just our heads.
Yes, I have a writing style. And honestly, you're not the first to notice this. When I was still living as male and first got onto the internet, even with a gender neutral name, people would assume I was female based on how I type. I can't help the way I type, it's just who I am :P
I do think that the extra level of understanding is one of the best things between us. it's a great foundation to start building a meaningful relationship on.
Quote from: AlexanderC on July 01, 2013, 04:55:38 PM
Then it makes me realise just how deep being trans goes, and it's comforting to know it's in our subconsciousness and not just our heads.
I noticed this too when first reading the forums. It also helped me come to terms with the fact this is an actual biological issue that really exists.
Quote from: Keaira on July 02, 2013, 02:45:15 PM
I do think that the extra level of understanding is one of the best things between us. it's a great foundation to start building a meaningful relationship on.
Although, as we have discussed on several occasions, this isn't always the case. Because not every trans person views their transition issues the same way. There's some trans men that even I, another trans man, would butt heads with til the day one of us dies lol. And there are some trans women who I just cannot see eye to eye with either. I think the benefits of extra understanding only come into play when you have two people who think along the same lines as it is. Then it's great. But if it's not, I can see two trans people butting heads and causing each other even more pain.
Quote from: so over you on July 02, 2013, 03:43:37 PM
I don't like when terms like ftm and mtf are used like this... transition status is such a personal thing...
Well, this is a site for discussing the in's and out's of life as a trans person. If we didn't discuss trans topics this place would be barren except for the occasional tumbleweed.
Quote from: Darrin Scott on July 01, 2013, 05:30:20 PM
Not that I mind or anything, but these threads seem to pop up a lot for some reason.
I could be wrong, but I think it likely has to do with people trying to determine if the other side understands them or not. Is there symmetry in our experiences? Do they understand what we're going through, or is there a feeling of "how could you not want to be ___!?! I would kill to be ___!"? Thankfully, it seems like that understanding is there, going by some of the responses. I, too, am feeling some warm fuzzies here. ^_^
Quote from: Prof HB on July 02, 2013, 03:29:08 PM
Although, as we have discussed on several occasions, this isn't always the case. Because not every trans person views their transition issues the same way. There's some trans men that even I, another trans man, would butt heads with til the day one of us dies lol. And there are some trans women who I just cannot see eye to eye with either. I think the benefits of extra understanding only come into play when you have two people who think along the same lines as it is. Then it's great. But if it's not, I can see two trans people butting heads and causing each other even more pain.
True. Azzie and I have butted heads before.
Quote from: Sammy on July 01, 2013, 02:16:28 AM
This one is very sweet and cute :)
Boy-Girl Meets Girl-Boy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g35kGQGwwM8#)
This is so sweet, I'm basically full of fluff and envy.
As for Mtfs I have a lot of respect for them, even if we don't get along. On another note when I am attracted to females I am much more prone to serious stomach butterflies from a confident mtf lady.
In my community there is a lot of mutual support among trans men and trans women. I think we just feel that there is safety in numbers and as our community is so small locally there is no reason not to offer support and friendship. There are many trans men and trans women committed relationships including my own. My boyfriend is trans male along with the majority of our close friends. I do think this does create a bond among us due to having an understanding of what we have/do go through mentally on this journey.
I see trans women as fellow human beings. I haven't had the chance to meet many other trans people of any type. I understand struggling with being read as the right gender or being treated as the opposite gender and on that front I relate to them better than say cis men, and hardly related to most cis women I meet in most regards.
Quote from: Nygeel on July 01, 2013, 08:59:37 PM
Trans women are women, my feelings for trans women in general are the same as my feelings towards women in general. Some are cool, some are crummy, some are okay.
This.
A friend of mine in DC suggested we should cross train, i.e.girls teach the guys stuff and vice versa some of the things we were never taught because of our birth gender. He was of course, suggesting this as I showed him how to attach the different accessories to his rotary sander and showed him how to assemble one of those big toolboxes on wheels. He had it in his garage, still boxed for over a year because he had no idea how to assemble it. No one had shown him anything mechanical in his life.
He's the 3rd ftm I've met in person and I have a lot of respect for him. And in general, I've not met a guy I didnt like.
I like transwomen that like me.
I also hate emoticons and exclamation points, but it's okay if they use them- but not all the time. They're no substitute for words and an impressive vocabulary is a big plus. Nerdy girls ++
Also, I get along with most transwomen (or women in general) as long as they dont assume that I must be more in touch with women's issues, more sensitive than a cismale, more understanding, etc, etc.
Quote from: Jamison on July 10, 2013, 01:41:11 AM
I like transwomen that like me.
I also hate emoticons and exclamation points, but it's okay if they use them- but not all the time. They're no substitute for words and an impressive vocabulary is a big plus. Nerdy girls ++
Also, I get along with most transwomen (or women in general) as long as they dont assume that I must be more in touch with women's issues, more sensitive than a cismale, more understanding, etc, etc.
No, we know you can be as diverse as the Cis male population. Don't think I haven't seen the guys that think that sagging their pants and wearing their baseball caps sideways makes them look like the bee's knee's. Not a good look on
ANY guy. :P
You know I kinda like the idea of a ftm coaching me and vica versa..
After all, we both have been painfully aware of the differences in our instincts and expected social cues of our birth gender, right?
But yeah I was cautious of the 'why on earth would you give up being a guy' line of thinking. But what I get from this is we both understand the answer... gender dysphoria.
That said, I am sooo not a girly girl. ;)
Well...I know I would NOT be good at coaching anyone on female socialization even though I was born female. Lol. Just the other day, my grandma and her friends were going to go out to buy clothes and were calling these places to see when they were open. I looked at them and very innocently asked "Why are you buying clothes?" They look at me like I was stupid and said "...for fun?" My brother scoffed and rolled his eyes at me lol.
It's all subtle stuff. I never picked up on anything girl-related, other than maybe some voice inflections. I failed big time at the social cues and everyone knew it.
Quote from: Ketchup Packet on July 11, 2013, 03:28:45 PM
Well...I know I would NOT be good at coaching anyone on female socialization even though I was born female. Lol. Just the other day, my grandma and her friends were going to go out to buy clothes and were calling these places to see when they were open. I looked at them and very innocently asked "Why are you buying clothes?" They look at me like I was stupid and said "...for fun?" My brother scoffed and rolled his eyes at me lol.
It's all subtle stuff. I never picked up on anything girl-related, other than maybe some voice inflections. I failed big time at the social cues and everyone knew it.
I feel exactly the same way. I never really realised I was female except for one year when I was 11/12, and I really didn't understand it then. Everything was just a million times more awkward, it was so obvious I was trying hard but way off the mark.
I wouldn't be good either. Why would I want to teach someone to be a male when I got beat up alot for not being able to be one growing up? that's just asking to be beat up. But, I did teach Caleb how to tie a tie. And showed my friend how to assemble his toolbox, so I guess there's some elementary stuff we can share with one another. Everyone is different. ;)
I feel the same toward them as I feel for everyone else. Most MTF ladies I know are really, really nice people, very cheerful and upbeat and usually quite positive. I have a lot of MTF friends and they're all awesomeeee.
Oh you guys.... ;D
Quote from: Keaira on July 10, 2013, 02:25:45 AM
Don't think I haven't seen the guys that think that sagging their pants and wearing their baseball caps sideways makes them look like the bee's knee's. Not a good look on ANY guy. :P
Idk, it sounds kind of sexy. :P
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on July 12, 2013, 07:59:28 PM
Idk, it sounds kind of sexy. :P
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.spin1038.com%2Fcontent%2F003%2Flegacy-images%2Fjustin-bieber-sagging-347x480.jpg&hash=825bd97dd7018deb45fd485e9423532f15ab94c8)
Okay, well, if this your thing, more power to you. :P
Nevermind, you've now made things very unsexy for me Keaira. >.<
Quote from: ~RoadToTrista~ on July 12, 2013, 08:46:04 PM
Nevermind, you've now made things very unsexy for me Keaira. >.<
^_^ just doing a public service. :P
When I first saw this thread, my immediate reaction was, "Why would anyone want a female body?" Then .5 seconds later, I smacked my face at my own stupidity, because they're women. Of course they'd want a female body.
I swear, in my stupid moments, there is nothing on the planet that can match me.
There as ever some really interesting points in this thread. One of the reasons I love this site is when people do talk we can learn heaps.
I was wondering among the respondents of how many people mix (knowingly) with other trans* or intersex people? Sorry I know you do here, but in personal social life?
One reason I ask is a comment I got from a straight woman who is in the position of having to respect and deal with me. Well she need not respect me but she has to be able to work with me .........
We were talking and she was, I think, trying to demonstrate how accepting she was of other people.
Her: "Oh, I like Gay people, my hairdresser is Gay and I've known him for years"
Me: " I like Gay people as well, I have several Gay friends, several Lesbian friends, a heap of trans*female friends and quite a few trans*male friends. I know a few inter-sexed people who I'm close to as well.
I'm straight. I like guys, and preferably well-hung."
I was taking advantage because I was angry, but I also thought it an interesting comment from her. She accepted Trans*people because she had a Gay hairdresser.
I think it fits in this thread for comment.
Cindy
Quote from: Cindy. on July 13, 2013, 04:26:17 AM
I was taking advantage because I was angry, but I also thought it an interesting comment from her. She accepted Trans*people because she had a Gay hairdresser.
I think it fits in this thread for comment.
Cindy
Her comment is typically what you'd get from the straight heterosexual community here which is significantly disinterested in knowing or even hearing about people with either gender issues or sexual preferences. They "would prefer that they not even exist, and would at least show the decency to stay in the closet." That is a quote from a recent conversation I overheard.
I used to associate with other transgender folks, but have withdrawn and lost contact with many as it doesn't fit well with my family situation at this time and many have moved on with their lives post-op.
Cindy, I never really intended it, but most of my socializing is with trans people. It's not really that I tried for it to be, but I started going to support groups. There are two that I go to. I met a trans gal, and now we are dating. I hang out with some of the guys. I didn't try for this to happen but it did. The trans center has a lot of activities. I don't regret this as I never plan to be stealth. BTW, I think I consider my orientation to be "queer", though a lot of people my age wouldn't use that word, since it has had very bad connotations. But I was not active in the gay community before.
--Jay
Quote from: Soren on July 13, 2013, 02:34:19 AM
When I first saw this thread, my immediate reaction was, "Why would anyone want a female body?" Then .5 seconds later, I smacked my face at my own stupidity, because they're women. Of course they'd want a female body.
I swear, in my stupid moments, there is nothing on the planet that can match me.
You know, I had exactly the same reaction when I first looked into FTM board - like "Oh oh... I am in unfamiliar territory now... Truly, why would somebody in a sane mind want to be a male???" - but it dawned on me that it is the same thing, except with an opposite polarity :).
Quote from: -Emily- on July 13, 2013, 12:31:17 PM
You know, I had exactly the same reaction when I first looked into FTM board - like "Oh oh... I am in unfamiliar territory now... Truly, why would somebody in a sane mind want to be a male???" - but it dawned on me that it is the same thing, except with an opposite polarity :).
Yeah that's right. I don't feel completely binary, but it's the same idea. I go to a mixed group. The things we talk about are pretty much the same--problems with jobs, family, trouble getting medical care, uncertainty, etc. Now there are MTF and FTM groups where there are often subjects that wouldn't be discussed in the other (don't know from personal experience re: the MTF, of course).
--Jay
For me it's less 'why would they want to be female?' and more 'why would they want to act like spoiled little snots that need some sense slapped into them?' Then I remind myself that all the females that act like that are immature either age-wise or emotionally/mentally.
I've often thought the same of men. It's not really gender specific.
I think of MTF ladies as just regular people, albeit with the added bonus of having a high likelihood of understanding where I'm coming from as a fellow trans* person. Other people's trans* status has little to do with my opinion of them as a person, though it is certainly comforting to have other trans* people in my life. I have a few close friends and a number of acquaintances who are one flavor or another of trans*, and although none of them are my friends are in my life BECAUSE they're trans*, I do appreciate the conversations I can have with them about transition-stuff that isn't always easy to explain to even the most understanding cis friends.
Quote from: randomroads on July 13, 2013, 04:56:26 PM
For me it's less 'why would they want to be female?' and more 'why would they want to act like spoiled little snots that need some sense slapped into them?' Then I remind myself that all the females that act like that are immature either age-wise or emotionally/mentally.
I've often thought the same of men. It's not really gender specific.
Hahah I am LOLing hard!!!
In my experince. Well all of it..men don't assume I will make sense
About anything. Not clothes...relationship needs wants
And generally consider me to be kind of like that
Maybe we don't have to be grown up coz well..
Men are quick to take care of a vulnerable pretty girl
Adults who can't care for themselves are often taken advantage of and that's not gender specific, either. If you want to be taken care of, I completely understand. It's rather nice. If you rely on being pretty and helpless, chances are you'll end up another divorce statistic.
I also see mtf ladies just as I see any other woman. Except for the fact that mtf women have a beauty and strength that goes beyond anything physical. I admire transwomen in a different way than cis women. But other than that, we're all just people. :)
Awww Lance, thats lovely!
So what I am getting from this thread is that the majority of you guys feel mtfs are just like cis girls but with deeper understanding of your own struggles. Any resentment for giving up the male physical characteristics is quickly overcome when you realise the root cause is the same pain you feel. I can easily understand why mtf and ftm couples form... the deeper acceptance and understanding is a beautiful basis for a relationship.
Anyone feel strongly outside that summary, and if so the reasons? No judgement if you do, but a great discussion point.
Trans women are women, they're people just like anyone else with differing personalities and desires. I don't understand resenting another person for transitioning just because they have the body you feel yours needs to be, you know? It's not like any of us chose to be born the way we are, and I don't think I could ever envy or be critical of a trans woman for doing what she needs to do. She has the right to take care of herself, just as I have the right to care for myself.
Quote from: ornismon on July 13, 2013, 07:50:28 PM
Trans women are women, they're people just like anyone else with differing personalities and desires. I don't understand resenting another person for transitioning just because they have the body you feel yours needs to be, you know? It's not like any of us chose to be born the way we are, and I don't think I could ever envy or be critical of a trans woman for doing what she needs to do. She has the right to take care of herself, just as I have the right to care for myself.
I agree with that assessment 100%. Very thoughtful and well spoken!
Quote from: ornismon on July 13, 2013, 07:50:28 PM
Trans women are women, they're people just like anyone else with differing personalities and desires. I don't understand resenting another person for transitioning just because they have the body you feel yours needs to be, you know? It's not like any of us chose to be born the way we are, and I don't think I could ever envy or be critical of a trans woman for doing what she needs to do. She has the right to take care of herself, just as I have the right to care for myself.
Yeah I don't care for trash talk about the other gender in the forum, tbh. I agree with the above 100%. I don't get about being female because, duh, I am not a woman. I'd guess the gals here feel the same about being a guy.
--Jay
So, its official. Everyone loves me. ^_^
Quote from: Keaira on July 14, 2013, 11:12:28 AM
So, its official. Everyone loves me. ^_^
Yes of course we do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hugs
C
With the few friends of mine that are in transition I only have one that is ftm. We have a lot of shared interests & get along great, respect what he went through, he exercises & has really bulked up. I am richer for having him in my life. Ornismon said things precisely, I can't improve on this. We are humans, so love each other.
Jamie
Quote from: Keaira on July 14, 2013, 11:12:28 AM
So, its official. Everyone loves me. ^_^
Why wouldn't we. :)
--Jay
Just wanted to chime in here and say they are some of the most radical women I've ever met. But they are just like normal women, (unless they don't chose to be, those are the best). I pretty much live with this radical girl now in the early stages of transitioning/hrt She gave me the confidence to not care about passing. She doesn't fret to much and is super honest with herself. She does what makes her happy. No shame.
She taught me to not care about passing. I'm 5'6, 110lbs. I wear skin tight size 0 womens black jeans, my hair is a long red undercut, and I wear emerald green contacts and i'm not even on T yet. I start in two days. But I don't get misgendered . I prefer gender neutral and male pronouns. I used to get misgendered daily, NOT ANYMORE! She also taught me to see all the masculine features I naturally have, especially my eyes, jawline and chin. Never noticed it before. Now I see it daily. Feels good.
Pogopopez, that sounds like a pretty awesome friend to have. I think it would be great to have a friend to kinda transition with. Especially one that boosts your self confidence.
Just like cis ladies. Some are lovely and some are just awful.
Quote from: -Emily- on July 01, 2013, 05:12:51 PM
Me too :) I wanna know :)
Of course, you point out that women type a certain way, and they jump all over it! ::) Like starving dogs! Heheh..
Quote from: Joanna Dark on July 01, 2013, 07:28:35 PM
It's funny you should mention exclamation points. I am a magazine editor so I used to hatehatehate exclamation points because I saw them as lazy and someone using a crutch to get their point across. But lately I can't help myself at all! Prolly because i'm loads more enthusiastic about life. But I've always used smiley faces. Lots of em. hehehe ;D
I actually was unaware that exclamation marks were a feminine thing, but that opens my eyes a little bit! Oh and smiley faces, and I don't care that it's disliked! :icon_blah: They aren't a replacement for sophisticated word usage, but they are nice to throw in every now and then! Or a lot, as the case may be with me... to which I noticed with a fellow transgirl I was talking to online, when I saw just how many times I did this: :P
Maybe I was trying to lick them, I don't know!
I will also state, when I first came to Susan's Place, I had this thought at the back of my head, wondering to myself, "Why do FtM want to be men?!" yeah yeah.. It's a stupid thought though, because dysphoria isn't female-specific, or nothing! I didn't understand FtMs, but now I think I do, and most importantly, they're people like the rest of us. And oh boy, do they act a lot like my cis-guy friends. Which is to say, guyish and tiring to deal with at times! Just an understanding of how guys are, from looking at FtMs and my cis-guy friends, and my brother, I can sort of understand how the FtM boards are a bit more of a quiet place. There's been many discussions on why that is, probably, but guys just seem that way in general. :icon_shakefist:
If you like being that way, good for you, but it nearly makes me explode, that people expected me to act like that in real life!
Quote from: PepperedIssy on July 17, 2013, 11:33:45 AM
And oh boy, do they act a lot like my cis-guy friends. Which is to say, guyish and tiring to deal with at times! Just an understanding of how guys are, from looking at FtMs and my cis-guy friends, and my brother, I can sort of understand how the FtM boards are a bit more of a quiet place. There's been many discussions on why that is, probably, but guys just seem that way in general.
I have a transguy friend and oh my god he act so like a guy. I mean I know he is. The thing is that looking at him he has a really female body and even though he might kill me he is a really cute girl. He looks so small and sweet and then he opens his mouth and I am like "yep guy"
Quote from: PepperedIssy on July 17, 2013, 11:33:45 AM
I will also state, when I first came to Susan's Place, I had this thought at the back of my head, wondering to myself, "Why do FtM want to be men?!" yeah yeah.. It's a stupid thought though, because dysphoria isn't female-specific, or nothing! I didn't understand FtMs, but now I think I do, and most importantly, they're people like the rest of us. And oh boy, do they act a lot like my cis-guy friends. Which is to say, guyish and tiring to deal with at times! Just an understanding of how guys are, from looking at FtMs and my cis-guy friends, and my brother, I can sort of understand how the FtM boards are a bit more of a quiet place. There's been many discussions on why that is, probably, but guys just seem that way in general. :icon_shakefist:
If you like being that way, good for you, but it nearly makes me explode, that people expected me to act like that in real life!
I haven't gone to an MTF support group, for obvious reasons, but I think the guy's group is a lot different (from what I've heard). There's a lot of really practical stuff and it is common to talk about packing and binding. This MTF friend of mine tells me that they don't so much talk about practical stuff.
Of course, one reason this group is quieter is just that there are a lot fewer of us. I've also noticed a lot of the guys only hang out here. And the ones who don't tend to be a little less binary. Not sure if that last thing is entirely true. Maybe it's just those of us who have been around MTFs more.
I took out your pink. Btw bookworm I'd suggest you wouldn't tell your friend that he looks like a girl.
--Jay
Quote from: Bookworm on July 17, 2013, 07:17:35 PM
I have a transguy friend and oh my god he act so like a guy. I mean I know he is. The thing is that looking at him he has a really female body and even though he might kill me he is a really cute girl. He looks so small and sweet and then he opens his mouth and I am like "yep guy"
I don't think that's a very respectful way to talk about your friend. How do you think he'd feel if he saw you calling him a small, sweet, really cute girl?
Quote from: Pogopopez on July 16, 2013, 11:00:32 PM
Just wanted to chime in here and say they are some of the most radical women I've ever met. But they are just like normal women, (unless they don't chose to be, those are the best). I pretty much live with this radical girl now in the early stages of transitioning/hrt She gave me the confidence to not care about passing. She doesn't fret to much and is super honest with herself. She does what makes her happy. No shame.
She taught me to not care about passing. I'm 5'6, 110lbs. I wear skin tight size 0 womens black jeans, my hair is a long red undercut, and I wear emerald green contacts and i'm not even on T yet. I start in two days. But I don't get misgendered . I prefer gender neutral and male pronouns. I used to get misgendered daily, NOT ANYMORE! She also taught me to see all the masculine features I naturally have, especially my eyes, jawline and chin. Never noticed it before. Now I see it daily. Feels good.
I agree she sounds like a great friend to have. Likewise my girl friend. She doesn't seem to care either. She just says she wants to be the best kind of woman she can be. Sounds like a good thing to aspire to. Looks aren't really *anything*. They may matter to us materialistic humans. But they aren't what counts.
--Jay
Hmhm ^_^ This thread seems to have another one hiding inside it. (The differences in writing styles between genders, ;) )
I'm a long time time writress ( Clever right? :D ) and before I really knew I was female, I was always very proper about my writings and used all of the appropriate grammar and vocabulary and the like. I was also very very against texting or any sort of social media really. Acronyms like lol or omg annoyed me to the greatest. After reading a whole lot of books and taking some classes on creative writing, I started coming up with words like writress instead of writer, and doing things like making three words into one.
( I would have ---> I'd've :D Not strictly against the rules of literature but a loophole for sure. ;) ) However I was still a foreigner to smileys and acronysms.
Then... I got a girlfriend. (dun dun DUN!) And so began the age of texting. After a few months of talking to her nonstop, I went back to trying to write stories and realized, I had the urge to put smileys everywhere!!!!! It was like my whole concept of literature had just turned from a beautiful sketching in pencil lead, to an explosion of pretty rainbows and crayons!! And now I've got myself fussing over which smiley to use.
It took a while, but I eventually learned how to separate my different writing styles for trivial communication, and formal literature. One thing's for sure though, I've certainly gotten a lot more creative. ;) And I'm all for smileys now. Acronyms don't bother me anymore, but It's still rare for me to use them. (besides omg, sometimes I catch myself saying that one. Maybe it's because I live in Utah. (I'm not mormon!! So dan't ask. I'm so tired of being asked that question....(not that I have anything against mormons or mormonism but I'm just saying.. (...Three?...Four?!! omg!!)))) ...... (ahahahahahahahahahahaha xD ) ANYWAYS, I'm sure some of my writing is still pretty formal and not as girly as I might like it to be (maybe not this particular paragraph though. x) Go Parenthesis!! ) but I think that's probably more because I love writing and less because of any male likenesses left behind.
P.S. My vocabulary is still as colorful as ever! And I'm a lot more loquacious as of late. ;)
I love forums. xD
With Passion, Maka (Former Literature Nerd)
Quote from: PepperedIssy on July 17, 2013, 11:33:45 AM
Of course, you point out that women type a certain way, and they jump all over it! ::) Like starving dogs! Heheh..
Watch out. You're gonna send me into heat!! ;) ;) Hmhm ;)
Amorously, Totally innocent :angel: