When I started the transition process, I was positive that I wanted to be stealth. I wanted to live like a woman and have nothing to do with my past. But now it is looking like that will be more and more difficult to do because too many people know about me. It's also difficult because even though I go by my new name my documents are still in pain told name and gender. I'm even wondering what to do with Facebook because I'm no longer comfortable using my old name there. Should I start a new account with all my new friends just change the name on my current account or what? Maybe I should just be open and not care what people think.
Hi Rosa, I changed my name on my facebook acount. I didn't want to lose the friends that had accepted me as trans and they new long before I started my transition. I am very open about being trans. I am very proud of all the obsticles I have over come in my life and this is no exception. If anyone dosen't like me for who I am then it's their loss. But what you do is up to you, Go with what you feel is best for you.
Stealth seems like a crushing psychological burden. I've tried being stealth in a couple venues where no one knows me and I find I have to watch EVERYTHING I say. I like to talk about my past.
OTOH, I really like it when women relate to me as a woman, not as a transwoman. The only way I can make that happen for sure is try to pass.
Personally I think I will be content with people seeing me enough as a woman that they find it easy to forget what they know about my history.
Quote from: suzifrommd on July 27, 2013, 03:11:50 PM
Stealth seems like a crushing psychological burden. I've tried being stealth in a couple venues where no one knows me and I find I have to watch EVERYTHING I say. I like to talk about my past.
I was just about to write that I'm sure I will be stealth. But that's a valid point, I like to talk about my past, too. And since that will always be that of a male person, I'll have hard times maintaining my stealth.
It looks like stealth with good friends who know might be a passable solution.
Nevertheless, it's up to everybody to choose for themselves.
Im taking a mixed approach to my transition. Im open to friends and family, but stealth to the rest of the world and am finding it to be so much easier then any other way of transition because i have the support from friends, but don't have to worry about the stares and comments from the rest of the world.
depends on the setting
After transition/SRS I lived the first 20 years pretty much stealth; only my husband and my doctor knew. Though I was living half way across the country, things have a way of coming out, in my case through a nosy busybody who snooped through medical records and made the juicy bits the topic of gossip (not just me but a number of other people had confidential information released). I was pretty firmly established in my new community and no body ever confronted me with it so I just ignored it. Now, pushing 40 years post, I am much more open about it and don't give a damn what anyone things. Usually they just flat out refuse to believe me and that's kind of nice.
Since I still live where I did before I transitioned and have a lot of contact with people I knew before, I'm more out than not. But overall its not been an issue. Some don't know, some do and I think most people have gotten so used to me that they don't really mention it to people that don't know so much anymore.
I transitioned at my work (3500 employees, worked there for 25 years at the time), I live the place where I've been living since 1993, so to me there's really no sense in trying to be stealth.
I've only met positive reactions and are treated like the other women at work. After my SRS in june 2013 I'm back at the office and everyone I meet express they're glad I'm back.
To me this way is the right way, but like taking the step into transitioning, stealth or open is something that I feel you have to decide for yourself, following your heart in what feels the best for you.
/Jeanette
I need to be as 'stealth' as I can be for personal reasons. The decision to either or halfway in between is a personal one and I see no reason to judge anyone based on their decision about this subject.
Stealth seems like the better option for me. I don't want to attract attention and as all my friends have moved on etc, I'm in a perfect position to start anew.
I was in a similar situation to Jeanette.
So no stealth - and no problems. People have been totally accepting, there is one (male) person who doesn't talk to me anymore, and much to my surprise he is now being ignored by his colleagues. But guys I have worked with for 20+ years hold the door open for me, let me in the lift first, open taxi doors for me. Essentially treat me with the courtesy they treat all woman they work with.
And my female co-workers have been fantastic. Funnily we were having a female discussion of the comfort or lack of comfort of wearing 'thong' undies and the effect they had on our boyfriends/husbands etc, which stopped immediately a guy came in to the tea room. Obviously we didn't want to embarrass him. But it was very revealing!!!!!
So don't get too hung up. I think the world is changing, at least in civilised countries - but the uncivilised ones often surprise me with their location! The land of the free doesn't seem to always live up to it's moniker. While the ocker Australian macho beer swilling bloke - seems to be very accepting.
Strange
Quote from: Cindy. on July 28, 2013, 04:08:56 AM
Strange
I tend to disagree. Neither good nor bad prejudices can stand if you look at them closely most of the time.
I'm not stealth and I haven't really tried to be in the past. These days though I am trying to skew my life in that direction. I'm okay with friends and family that know me from before knowing about my past, as long as they can keep their pie-holes shut whenever I'm not around (I've already had to ditch a few friends that couldn't keep their mouths shut).
People talking is just the worst though. I don't know why they do it. Many think it is totally okay to do it. Some just can't grasp why I don't want people to know. Even my mother was baffled when I told her last year that I don't like being around strangers who heard it through the grapevine. It had never even crossed her mind.
Some people feel they have a duty to inform others. Usually they are of the opinion that brutal honesty at all times is the only way to go, or else you are some sort of scum with no integrity. They'll usually say this right before they tell you your face is ugly or something ("Whale biologist!") . I had a friend like this out me on my facebook page. He referred to me with my former name in a comment to something I posted. Luckily I was online and was able to delete it in seconds. I confronted him and told him to never ever do it again. His reaction was utmost surprise and he seemed to think my behavior was deceptive and immoral. He said he would respect my wish but he thought it was wrong of me to not have it all out in the public.
People don't understand why I don't like it when others know. They don't understand why it matters, but it does. Usually when I'm around people I can tell if they know or not. I can sense it because they act different from how people normally act around others. It's in their eyes. How they look at me and how they are only half hearing anything I say because they are way to preoccupied checking out the amazing freak of nature that I am in their eyes. Coming out to people as a trans woman is the equivalent of coming out as a human clone or an android. I often feel like an artifact around people who knows. I have little interest in feeling that way.
I often hear others say they think being stealth sounds stressful. I used to think so too, but my experience so far tells me it's not really so. Once it has been established that no-one knows then there's nothing to worry about, because if they don't know, how could they find out? A few weeks back I started seeing a guy. He doesn't know and being with him is just great. I was out with him on Friday night and he spent last night here at my place, and the entire time with him this weekend I didn't even once think or worry about my you-know-what status because I know he can't clock me. To me stealth is peace of mind. It's just too bad there are so many people out there with the ability to wreck it for me.
MariaMx, sorry to pry, but I thought you were married?
And your post is an example of why I am not out to anyone except my family. The burden for those that do know? My mother is extremely sensitive about how I feel about my privacy. She'd love to tell her friends, but knows she can't without my express permission, and I utterly trust her. There are many past aspects of her life that she has to keep to herself and she can't show old photos etc., which upsets her, and therefore upsets me. But I simply can't be out. I would absolutely detest being around anyone that knows.
Quote from: Nicolette on July 28, 2013, 06:16:08 AM
MariaMx, sorry to pry, but I thought you were married?
I was for almost 7 years but it fell apart last January. I'm not going to go into details, but my life is much better now so no need to feel bad about it on my behalf :)
Quote from: MariaMx on July 28, 2013, 07:25:18 AM
I was for almost 7 years but it fell apart last January. I'm not going to go into details, but my life is much better now so no need to feel bad about it on my behalf :)
The seven year itch seems to have some consistency. Good luck on pastures greener.
My goal is for a nice balance between stealth and openness. Random people I meet in day-to-day life don't need to know, but I'm okay with being open to closer friends and people that I establish a relationship with. Even then, I would probably only tell people if the subject came up (having people that don't know about my past sounds interesting!)
Quote from: Nicolette on July 28, 2013, 08:21:51 AM
The seven year itch seems to have some consistency. Good luck on pastures greener.
I heard that it has changed to 3 years recently; thus 7 years seems pretty long to me.
That said, I aim for longer relationships.
Quote from: Anna! on July 28, 2013, 09:27:57 AM
My goal is for a nice balance between stealth and openness. Random people I meet in day-to-day life don't need to know, but I'm okay with being open to closer friends and people that I establish a relationship with. Even then, I would probably only tell people if the subject came up (having people that don't know about my past sounds interesting!)
Sounds about like how it was for me. However, what turned out to be the problem was that people would know before a relationship was established. Most new people I meet have some connection to someone I know from before. Information that you have transitioned will spread through your social network at light speed resulting in people knowing your whole history before you even know they exist.
Quote from: Nicolette on July 28, 2013, 08:21:51 AM
The seven year itch seems to have some consistency. Good luck on pastures greener.
It wasn't anything like that. Things had been off for a while. And FYI, I was out on the pasture all night long and it looked pretty damn green to me :)
I don't understand why the word "stealth" is used. It seems to imply that we're being deceitful.
I mean, isn't the point of a transition to be treated exactly the same as other people of your gender? It seems to defy the point if we're expected to share our life story or else feel like we're deceiving people.
It seems to me that when somebody makes a successful transition, they are as much that gender as any cis is. And so there should be no obligation to feel they have to be open about it. Of course I understand that there are those who are proud about it and are happily open.
Quote from: Cindy on July 28, 2013, 04:08:56 AM
I was in a similar situation to Jeanette.
So no stealth - and no problems. People have been totally accepting, there is one (male) person who doesn't talk to me anymore, and much to my surprise he is now being ignored by his colleagues. But guys I have worked with for 20+ years hold the door open for me, let me in the lift first, open taxi doors for me. Essentially treat me with the courtesy they treat all woman they work with.
And my female co-workers have been fantastic. Funnily we were having a female discussion of the comfort or lack of comfort of wearing 'thong' undies and the effect they had on our boyfriends/husbands etc, which stopped immediately a guy came in to the tea room. Obviously we didn't want to embarrass him. But it was very revealing!!!!!
So don't get too hung up. I think the world is changing, at least in civilised countries - but the uncivilised ones often surprise me with their location! The land of the free doesn't seem to always live up to it's moniker. While the ocker Australian macho beer swilling bloke - seems to be very accepting.
Strange
Unfortunately I live in the USA - pretty much it defines itself as an uncivilized nation - it likes to invade others and bombs the heck out of them - I would call that as about as uncivilized as they get - where I live hate crimes still happen - and the police refuse to do anything about them -
therefore I will be stealth from now on - I am moving to a new city to implement this
I choose to live open. Because I have nothing to be ashamed of or hide. And I live in the US and the south and I'm proud of that! I wouldn't live anywhere else this country has given me the freedom to live my life as I see fit and I'm grateful for that. ;)
I practice what a friend calls 'open stealth'. All this really means is that I have a bunch of old friends and family in my life who know, I have some newer friends that know and some newer friends that don't. I don't advertise the fact that I'm trans, but I also don't deny it, nor do I attempt to hide my past in any way.
Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on July 31, 2013, 11:31:29 AM
I practice what a friend calls 'open stealth'. All this really means is that I have a bunch of old friends and family in my life who know, I have some newer friends that know and some newer friends that don't. I don't advertise the fact that I'm trans, but I also don't deny it, nor do I attempt to hide my past in any way.
How do you keep them from outing you to other people?
Quote from: MariaMx on July 31, 2013, 11:41:27 AM
How do you keep them from outing you to other people?
They are aware that I'd prefer they didn't and they love and respect me enough to follow my request. And 99% of the time, they don't. When they do, oh well, not like it's a huge secret.
I adopt a DEDD (Don't Explain Don't Deny) approach which has become a happy medium.
I decided to just be stealth unless I'm going to be in a romantic relationship with someone.
Quote from: Kelly the Trans-Rebel on July 31, 2013, 11:31:29 AM
I practice what a friend calls 'open stealth'. All this really means is that I have a bunch of old friends and family in my life who know, I have some newer friends that know and some newer friends that don't. I don't advertise the fact that I'm trans, but I also don't deny it, nor do I attempt to hide my past in any way.
This is really what I started doing and it is a very good tactic, especially the denial part. My biggest issue with being "stealth" is that it sort of felt like lying, but I realise that I don't HAVE to tell people. If they ask I won't deny. It's not like I go around telling people about other things in the past, even if they are harmless. Why is this any different?
I started as stealth, till I could pass then came to work as a woman, Walked straight into the HR office, said my new name is Teela Reene (keepin my last name secret) and for now on im a woman. March out of the office, went outside smoked a cig, then came back inside and clocked it. Scariest moment of my life and my managers thought it was great. Confused the hell out of me, my bosses still love me and call me to cover peoples shifts all the time.
Quote from: Katie10 on August 01, 2013, 09:37:35 AM
I decided to just be stealth unless I'm going to be in a romantic relationship with someone.
Well of course that would have to be someone to tell and trust -
and I would reveal then after dating for a little while - after I was sure I could trust them. Seriously I am scared to death here.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 05, 2013, 12:21:34 AM
Well of course that would have to be someone to tell and trust -
and I would reveal then after dating for a little while - after I was sure I could trust them. Seriously I am scared to death here.
I tell them before the first date, it helps avoid any drama.
Quote from: Teela Renee on August 05, 2013, 12:21:03 AM
I started as stealth, till I could pass then came to work as a woman, Walked straight into the HR office, said my new name is Teela Reene (keepin my last name secret) and for now on im a woman. March out of the office, went outside smoked a cig, then came back inside and clocked it. Scariest moment of my life and my managers thought it was great. Confused the hell out of me, my bosses still love me and call me to cover peoples shifts all the time.
That's awesome that took guts! :eusa_clap:
Quote from: Heather on July 31, 2013, 09:28:22 AM
I choose to live open. Because I have nothing to be ashamed of or hide. And I live in the US and the south and I'm proud of that! I wouldn't live anywhere else this country has given me the freedom to live my life as I see fit and I'm grateful for that. ;)
This implies that all stealth people are ashamed of being trans. I'm not ashamed of being trans, but I transitioned to live as a man, not to live as a trans man.
Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on August 05, 2013, 12:43:18 AM
This implies that all stealth people are ashamed of being trans. I'm not ashamed of being trans, but I transitioned to live as a man, not to live as a trans man.
I'm sorry I meant no offense. But I do have a question are you stealth or are you just not telling people your trans? There is a difference. I'm not really going around telling everyone. People that are close to me know. But if somebody found out I wouldn't be that devastated. My definition of stealth is nobody knows not even the people close to you don't know.
Quote from: Heather on August 05, 2013, 12:58:39 AM
I'm sorry I meant no offense. But I do have a question are you stealth or are you just not telling people your trans? There is a difference. I'm not really going around telling everyone. People that are close to me know. But if somebody found out I wouldn't be that devastated. My definition of stealth is nobody knows not even the people close to you don't know.
I'm stealth, otherwise I wouldn't have posted in here and implied that I'm stealth. Obviously my family knows, my best friend also knows, as well as my doctor.
Quote from: wheat thins are delicious on August 05, 2013, 01:09:50 AM
I'm stealth, otherwise I wouldn't have posted in here and implied that I'm stealth. Obviously my family knows, my best friend also knows, as well as my doctor.
Look I'm really not trying to have an argument with you. If you go back and look at my original post and then look at the one right above it and read it. You will get my intent. Have a nice day! ;)
Quote from: Heather on August 05, 2013, 12:58:39 AM
I'm sorry I meant no offense. But I do have a question are you stealth or are you just not telling people your trans? There is a difference. I'm not really going around telling everyone. People that are close to me know. But if somebody found out I wouldn't be that devastated. My definition of stealth is nobody knows not even the people close to you don't know.
I am sorry - but even if I am stealth I am going to have to tell my doctor or I am going to have to get my HRT illegally, and then I am going to be at a real high health risk, there might be a few people in the office who figure it out also, I may need to trust a therapist also, since I am actually forced to linve in a horribly croweded city and I am autistic I hate people they make 0 sencse to me I would rather live in the woods so I need to talk occassionally.
I also would like to go back to school - they are going to need to see my school records from U.C Berkeley so one or two people in the admissions office might find out.
stealth means not telling people who are out in LIFE that you encounter, who see you.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 05, 2013, 08:11:18 AM
stealth means not telling people who are out in LIFE that you encounter, who see you.
Everybody is going to have their own definition of what stealth is to them. Trust me I'm not advocating a life style and what you consider stealth is different from me.
Quite frankly who you tell is none of my business. By your definition I would be stealth! (Well if I pass that is!) I'm not going around telling everyone I'm trans but I'm not full time yet either. But even if I do pass I'm not going to announce it to everyone. But I'm staying at my job for now so I have no choice but to be out.
Anyways this is the last I will say about this people get way too over sensitive with this subject. All I have to say is no matter what your interpretation of stealth is if your happy awesome! But from now on I'll never respond to one of these stealth threads again they are just way too contentious than I like. And help nobody so as the old saying goes I won't touch this subject with a 10ft pole. ;)
Quote from: Heather on August 05, 2013, 09:37:26 AM
Everybody is going to have their own definition of what stealth is to them. Trust me I'm not advocating a life style and what you consider stealth is different from me.
Quite frankly who you tell is none of my business. By your definition I would be stealth! (Well if I pass that is!) I'm not going around telling everyone I'm trans but I'm not full time yet either. But even if I do pass I'm not going to announce it to everyone. But I'm staying at my job for now so I have no choice but to be out.
Anyways this is the last I will say about this people get way too over sensitive with this subject. All I have to say is no matter what your interpretation of stealth is if your happy awesome! But from now on I'll never respond to one of these stealth threads again they are just way too contentious than I like. And help nobody so as the old saying goes I won't touch this subject with a 10ft pole. ;)
you don't understand about 10 people in a city of 1,000,000 are going to know I am trans, this is stealth to me (basically the Dr office and the therapist) (and fantasy of fantasy a girlfriend if I ever get one)
Can I approach this from a different direction?
I say this from a trans life perspective not from an insulting tone, I think you know me enough to understand that.
As gender diverse people we suffer not only from our own need for acceptance of ourselves but also how we are accepted in society. We as a group have a tendency to co-morbidities in our mental health, that means our gender diversity is not a menat health issue but the ways in which we have tried to cope may be, drugs, depression etc.
When we talk about stealth etc we need to think of the consequences on our co-morbidities.
To put it bluntly if you are outed what will it lead to; in your mind not what others think of you, how will it effect you?
How will you cope with that?
I realise I'm a useless example in this situation, but in some ways maybe not. I cannot be outed. I can be hated. loathed, ignored, loved, accepted (I'm finding it impossible to say I can be ignored >:-) :laugh:) but I'm recognised for what I am. A woman who was born with male genitals, not that the question ever is asked twice :angel:
But I cannot be triggered by that, so I do not need to have anything in place for being triggered by that.
If you are in stealth, and I hope it never happens, but how would you deal with being outed? Would it trigger you? And can you control that?
Thoughts only people not a command.
Cindy
Quote from: Cindy on August 06, 2013, 03:27:49 AM
Can I approach this from a different direction?
I say this from a trans life perspective not from an insulting tone, I think you know me enough to understand that.
As gender diverse people we suffer not only from our own need for acceptance of ourselves but also how we are accepted in society. We as a group have a tendency to co-morbidities in our mental health, that means our gender diversity is not a menat health issue but the ways in which we have tried to cope may be, drugs, depression etc.
When we talk about stealth etc we need to think of the consequences on our co-morbidities.
To put it bluntly if you are outed what will it lead to; in your mind not what others think of you, how will it effect you?
How will you cope with that?
I realise I'm a useless example in this situation, but in some ways maybe not. I cannot be outed. I can be hated. loathed, ignored, loved, accepted (I'm finding it impossible to say I can be ignored >:-) :laugh:) but I'm recognised for what I am. A woman who was born with male genitals, not that the question ever is asked twice :angel:
But I cannot be triggered by that, so I do not need to have anything in place for being triggered by that.
If you are in stealth, and I hope it never happens, but how would you deal with being outed? Would it trigger you? And can you control that?
Thoughts only people not a command.
Cindy
Currently, it COULD lead to my death
and - how would I deal with it - I really would not be able to say it here
Quote from: Cindy on August 06, 2013, 03:27:49 AM
Can I approach this from a different direction?
I say this from a trans life perspective not from an insulting tone, I think you know me enough to understand that.
As gender diverse people we suffer not only from our own need for acceptance of ourselves but also how we are accepted in society. We as a group have a tendency to co-morbidities in our mental health, that means our gender diversity is not a menat health issue but the ways in which we have tried to cope may be, drugs, depression etc.
When we talk about stealth etc we need to think of the consequences on our co-morbidities.
To put it bluntly if you are outed what will it lead to; in your mind not what others think of you, how will it effect you?
How will you cope with that?
I realise I'm a useless example in this situation, but in some ways maybe not. I cannot be outed. I can be hated. loathed, ignored, loved, accepted (I'm finding it impossible to say I can be ignored >:-) :laugh:) but I'm recognised for what I am. A woman who was born with male genitals, not that the question ever is asked twice :angel:
But I cannot be triggered by that, so I do not need to have anything in place for being triggered by that.
If you are in stealth, and I hope it never happens, but how would you deal with being outed? Would it trigger you? And can you control that?
Thoughts only people not a command.
Cindy
I'm not quiet stealth but I try to be. It's very difficult though because people are outing me left and right. My closest friends and family are okay. I've told them that if they want to assist in my suicide then they can go ahead and out me. That helped and they've finally got it through their thick heads that I don't want to be outed. This is pure rocket science and very hard for a cis person to understand. Very very hard indeed. Trouble is though, they've already outed me to people who know who I am but don't know me personally, and these people (who happens to be immune to threats of suicide, cause they don't know and care about me) will in turn tell other people and so on and so on. About a year ago I was at a party and someone I had never seen before came up to me and asked me if my old name was 'xxx' "....because that's what they had heard". Usually they'll ask such stupid things loudly so everyone can hear.
So what do I usually do when I'm outed? Usually I'll picture myself with a noose around my neck or my body under a speeding train or something. I imagine that someday, if this keeps up, I'll totally snap.
Quote from: MariaMx on August 06, 2013, 09:20:56 AM
I'm not quiet stealth but I try to be. It's very difficult though because people are outing me left and right. My closest friends and family are okay. I've told them that if they want to assist in my suicide then they can go ahead and out me. That helped and they've finally got it through their thick heads that I don't want to be outed. This is pure rocket science and very hard for a cis person to understand. Very very hard indeed. Trouble is though, they've already outed me to people who know who I am but don't know me personally, and these people (who happens to be immune to threats of suicide, cause they don't know and care about me) will in turn tell other people and so on and so on. About a year ago I was at a party and someone I had never seen before came up to me and asked me if my old name was 'xxx' "....because that's what they had heard". Usually they'll ask such stupid things loudly so everyone can hear.
So what do I usually do when I'm outed? Usually I'll picture myself with a noose around my neck or my body under a speeding train or something. I imagine that someday, if this keeps up, I'll totally snap.
If it's this bad, why don't you just relocate to a place where people don't know you?
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145474.msg1197403#msg1197403 date=1375800600
If it's this bad, why don't you just relocate to a place where people don't know you?
Six month count down to the move - not all of us are rich like some of you, I have noticed some of you managed to get SRS in a year or two or maybe 3, I probably never will, and I have been at this for 25 years - I scrabble along at the poverty level and scrape for my meals at the end of the month
Maybe I'm being stupid here, but I just don't see why this issue is so contentious.
It doesn't matter whether you're open or stealth because chances are as a trans person if you go looking for personal drama you'll find it quicker than most, if you go looking for trouble you'll find it just as fast. Getting through transition is bad enough with all the obstacles and confrontation you have to deal with just to get through it.
Yet we all walk our own individual path through life, and through transition. Sometimes we come here and we come across experiences others share which we can relate to, but this is just because they resemble or mirror our own, they elicit similar feelings and emotions, but they are not the same experiences.
As much as I would want to (because I'm a caring sort) I cannot take the place of someone just starting out for the first time, or who has to come out to their parents knowing full well how much they depend on them and how great the impact is going to be if the relationship suffers as a result. I'm not there, I don't live your life, I don't walk your path.
You don't share my reality, and I don't share your's. Our experiences are not the same, they are just similar. Each of us have our own reasons for being stealth, or being open, or being somewhere in between.
How I live my life doesn't reflect on how you live your's. If you think that my sharing of my experiences and my life is meant to make a statement that I'm better then you're mistaken. The only implication I intend in any of my postings is that I'm different, this is my life, my experience, and I'm sharing it not to say that I'm right and you're wrong, but to share it in a way to say 'this is how I live, this is how I do things' just so to inspire someone further behind to see this and take from this something for their own life or experience.
So where's the reason to fight or argue? Why does stealth or open suddenly have to be an 'either or' argument?
Why not just share and let others draw their own conclusions?
Quote from: StellaB on August 06, 2013, 10:12:15 AM
Maybe I'm being stupid here, but I just don't see why this issue is so contentious.
It doesn't matter whether you're open or stealth because chances are as a trans person if you go looking for personal drama you'll find it quicker than most, if you go looking for trouble you'll find it just as fast. Getting through transition is bad enough with all the obstacles and confrontation you have to deal with just to get through it.
Yet we all walk our own individual path through life, and through transition. Sometimes we come here and we come across experiences others share which we can relate to, but this is just because they resemble or mirror our own, they elicit similar feelings and emotions, but they are not the same experiences.
As much as I would want to (because I'm a caring sort) I cannot take the place of someone just starting out for the first time, or who has to come out to their parents knowing full well how much they depend on them and how great the impact is going to be if the relationship suffers as a result. I'm not there, I don't live your life, I don't walk your path.
You don't share my reality, and I don't share your's. Our experiences are not the same, they are just similar. Each of us have our own reasons for being stealth, or being open, or being somewhere in between.
How I live my life doesn't reflect on how you live your's. If you think that my sharing of my experiences and my life is meant to make a statement that I'm better then you're mistaken. The only implication I intend in any of my postings is that I'm different, this is my life, my experience, and I'm sharing it not to say that I'm right and you're wrong, but to share it in a way to say 'this is how I live, this is how I do things' just so to inspire someone further behind to see this and take from this something for their own life or experience.
So where's the reason to fight or argue? Why does stealth or open suddenly have to be an 'either or' argument?
Why not just share and let others draw their own conclusions?
The problem does not come in with whether or not anyone else lives stealth - there was actually an article in the advocate which castigated anyone who dared to live stealth as if we were hurting those who were trans because we were "ashamed of who we were" when in fact where I live I am doing it out of self defense - it is all well and good to be "out and proud" in San Francisco where anyone can see you and they actually pay for your SRS if you work there, but here I suffered a hate crime and the cops actually laughed at me when I tried to report it. (I was almost beaten to death and NOTHING was done about it)
A year ago I would have been all "STEALTH STEALTH STEALTH"
but as I adjust more and more, and become more suited to being myself..
Im ok with openess to an extent.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 06, 2013, 10:45:01 AM
The problem does not come in with whether or not anyone else lives stealth - there was actually an article in the advocate which castigated anyone who dared to live stealth as if we were hurting those who were trans because we were "ashamed of who we were" when in fact where I live I am doing it out of self defense - it is all well and good to be "out and proud" in San Francisco where anyone can see you and they actually pay for your SRS if you work there, but here I suffered a hate crime and the cops actually laughed at me when I tried to report it. (I was almost beaten to death and NOTHING was done about it)
I'm sorry that happened to you -- it's awful, and I sympathize for certain. I'm interested in stealth not only for the social benefits, but also for my own safety. I have no real enemies in life, but there are plenty of people who are malicious by nature. A quiet, relatively normal life is of great interest to me, and I put myself at greater risk of not experiencing that by exposing myself as an often harassed demographic more and more.
However, I have a safety net. I have many loved ones who deeply care about me and make strides to ensure my safety. I feel very happy with the people who are close to me and feel little need to branch out. While I would prefer as few people as possible know what I have been through or will go through, I do not mind if someone close to me or satellite to my life is aware. It has little effect on my current happiness. If some day I were to be outed even more so than I currently am, it would not be a travesty to me and I would likely adapt because I have too much support to distract me from my contentment.
Not all people have this luxury. I am extremely fortunate to know the people I know. People who are not so fortunate, or who don't want to be in a situation such as mine, really have to consider their safety and their happiness. If complete stealth is the road they choose to achieve those qualities, then I think that is completely reasonable within their boundaries as a person.
Additionally, why does open or stealth need to be an "either, or, good, bad" argument? If someone wants to remain open and use that fact to fight for the well-being of trans people, that's their prerogative and I definitely commend them. If someone wants to remain stealth to avoid the harassment and prejudice that currently exists in our society, then I cannot fault them for wanting happiness and quiet in their limited life span. If the first attacks the second for their actions, are they not demeaning the purpose they are fighting for?
I also don't understand why some people are debating the very definition of stealth. It seems like a somewhat loose concept that merely implies you are readily perceived as an ordinary woman or man by most or all people you encounter. If your closest loved ones know about your biology but readily perceive you as a woman or man, and a few clinicians or administrators who are necessary to establish and advance your life are aware, why do these individuals have to count against your status as being stealth? For many people, even those who move, it seems almost inevitable. There are too many tides in life that we simply cannot control, unless we irrationally sacrifice entire opportunities and avenues to achieve them -- which seems like it falls shy of "living" as a genuine idea.
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145474.msg1197403#msg1197403 date=1375800600
If it's this bad, why don't you just relocate to a place where people don't know you?
I'm considering doing just that, but doing such a thing isn't that easy. Right now I'm trying to purge untrustworthy people from my social circles. Perhaps whittle it down to 4-5 people and then find new friends outside my network. If that doesn't work, then I'll move to another country. Probably the Netherlands. I'm already looking into learning Dutch to make relocating easier, if I'm forced to move.
I've lived in several countries for extended periods of time, but until very recently I kept my transgender secret from everyone. If you've been courageous and resilient enough to go through transitioning, you'll have no problem adapting to life in another country.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 06, 2013, 10:07:20 AM
Six month count down to the move - not all of us are rich like some of you, I have noticed some of you managed to get SRS in a year or two or maybe 3, I probably never will, and I have been at this for 25 years - I scrabble along at the poverty level and scrape for my meals at the end of the month
I feel like this is a weak excuse. It's not that hard to relocate on a budget, you just need to do your research. If you are currently scraping by at a low level job then you have little to lose by relocating: there are low level jobs all over the world. If you will be happier in a new location, this will improve your state of mind, and once you have a better state of mind, it will be easier for you to improve your financial situation.
Quote from: vegie271 on August 06, 2013, 10:07:20 AM
Six month count down to the move - not all of us are rich like some of you, I have noticed some of you managed to get SRS in a year or two or maybe 3, I probably never will, and I have been at this for 25 years - I scrabble along at the poverty level and scrape for my meals at the end of the month
Vegie their has to be some way to get out of your situation. It's all about attitude I'm not rich and I'm assuming I will never be either and I guess I hope to be one of these people that has SRS in the next two years. And it's not because I have the money it's because I flat out refuse to give up on my goals and will work as many jobs as it takes to achieve that goal. If you take the attitude you can't do something you will never be able to do that something. Get it in your mind that you can move you can have SRS and refuse to take no for an answer it will happen. :)
For Myself, I am pretty open about it. Of course all of my ID is, for a little while longer, in my birth name and just buying food at the supermarket will out me when I present my EBT Food Stamps card with my old name and picture (though one time at the welfare office when presenting my card, the worker said "This is your husband's card" at first).
Currently out of work and I know that a background check will immediately out me as well, and all of my over 30 years of experience is pre-transition. I have also been something of a public figure with lots of google search hits to my name from a few of the public projects I was involved with. I had a long stint as a radio personality and while working there the news director came out full-time transitioning as a woman and this was where I personally encountered my first trans-person IRL. All of this as well as both names, birth and female, are very distinct (no need to add numbers to email addresses).
I am in no way embarrassed as to my gender status and though I will not be the first to raise the issue, if it does need to come up I would feel no angst over talking about it, any problem would be others, not mine.
Quote from: Heather on August 06, 2013, 04:01:54 PM
Vegie their has to be some way to get out of your situation. It's all about attitude I'm not rich and I'm assuming I will never be either and I guess I hope to be one of these people that has SRS in the next two years. And it's not because I have the money it's because I flat out refuse to give up on my goals and will work as many jobs as it takes to achieve that goal. If you take the attitude you can't do something you will never be able to do that something. Get it in your mind that you can move you can have SRS and refuse to take no for an answer it will happen. :)
Medicare will not pay for my SRS - it is illegal for me to have a savings account larger than $2000, or have assets over $2000 even in cash, or even have a friend save the money for me, if I start a job I am only allowed to earn $200 a month or they start docking my SSI AND after I keep that job for 9 months I LOSE ALL of my SSI AND medicare FOREVER!
so there is pretty much no way I can even try to save up for SRS even if I try to on my own
so they won't do it and it is illegal for me to do it on my own.
I can't go back to school because I cannot afford the cost of it I can barely afford to eat
trust me I have tried all options and I am trapped our society does in fact marginalize some people
Quote from: vegie271 on August 06, 2013, 04:57:06 PM
Medicare will not pay for my SRS - it is illegal for me to have a savings account larger than $2000, or have assets over $2000 even in cash, or even have a friend save the money for me, if I start a job I am only allowed to earn $200 a month or they start docking my SSI AND after I keep that job for 9 months I LOSE ALL of my SSI AND medicare FOREVER!
so there is pretty much no way I can even try to save up for SRS even if I try to on my own
so they won't do it and it is illegal for me to do it on my own.
I can't go back to school because I cannot afford the cost of it I can barely afford to eat
trust me I have tried all options and I am trapped our society does in fact marginalize some people
How many more years does your bankruptcy last for? If you have nothing but time, there are ways that you can better yourself by taking advantage of free learning material online. You can also usually sit in on university lectures for free. Have you considered moving to a foreign country on a working holiday visa? There are steps that you can take to ensure that you come out of your bankruptcy in the best position possible. A lot of knowledge is free, and they can't take it away from you ;)
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145474.msg1197703#msg1197703 date=1375827640
How many more years does your bankruptcy last for? If you have nothing but time, there are ways that you can better yourself by taking advantage of free learning material online. You can also usually sit in on university lectures for free. Have you considered moving to a foreign country on a working holiday visa? There are steps that you can take to ensure that you come out of your bankruptcy in the best position possible. A lot of knowledge is free, and they can't take it away from you ;)
bankruptcy is finally over but what can I do I still can't get a job or anything - I can't afford to fly to another country - I can barely afford to live here - how can I work there I have few talents in any place else
and like I said if I work I lose what I have - I have so little I don't want to risk it
Having little is an excellent reason to risk it - the potential rewards are huge, and if it doesn't work out, you can't possibly be that much worse off than when you started. You can speak English, have you considered moving to a foreign country to teach schoolchildren? From there, you can figure out something more lucrative to get involved in. I know what it's like to be depressed, but you need to take action if you want to get out of a bad situation, it's not going to fix itself.
Quote from: su->-bleeped-<-ime link=topic=145474.msg1197732#msg1197732 date=1375829557
Having little is an excellent reason to risk it - the potential rewards are huge, and if it doesn't work out, you can't possibly be that much worse off than when you started. You can speak English, have you considered moving to a foreign country to teach schoolchildren? From there, you can figure out something more lucrative to get involved in. I know what it's like to be depressed, but you need to take action if you want to get out of a bad situation, it's not going to fix itself.
1) I am not that good with children (young ones at least)
B) no I had never considered it really - you have me sort of stunned what are the possibilities? I would actually be overjoyed at the prospect of leaving this place
By way of "stealth," I think we have members who just want to go through life unmolested for who they are.
Too many of my friends here have suffered from irrational violence and hate. That should never happen, but the reality is that it happens all too often.
I'm not really stealth, but I do have a pretty small radar profile.
I don't care whether someone else chooses to be open or stealth.
OK lets calm down a bit before I lock the thread.
What we were talking about was advantages and disadvantages and problems in going stealth vs non-stealth.
A good and important topic.
There is now an undertone of something else and I do not feel that is part of a healthy discussion for this topic.
If you wish to discuss matters outside of the post please post another.
I am very sensitive to peoples feelings on this and related topics.
You have my pm if you need to talk to someone.
Lets get back to topic please.
Otherwise it will be locked
Cindy
I was going to say GM, but Geex if you don't know me by now what has happened in the world ^-^ :laugh:
You know, looking back on it over the 40 years since my transition, I don't see total stealth as being that advantageous because sooner or later someone will find out and your cover is blown. When that happens, some people who were/are very close to you will be put off by the fact that you kept it such a secret and didn't share that with them (particularly spouses, boyfriends, etc.)
Of course you can't remain stealth with your doctor(s) no matter how well you pass because you need HRT and they need to know your background for your own safety.
If you are up-front with people (not in-your-face but honest) you will loose some potential friends but if they reject you for being TS, did you really want them as friends anyway?
Also EVERYBODY needs somebody to talk to, someone to confide in, and our past struggles are part of who we are, so you need someone you can talk to who KNOWS what you went through.
No matter how tight your "stealth" it is going to get blown sooner or later so just be honest with those close to you and, for those for whom it is none of their business, tell them so! Besides, it is much less stressful if you've nothing to hide.
JMHO
Stealth (to me) doesn't mean Never telling anyone no matter what the circumstances. Stealth is living your life without Broadcasting who you are.
There will be circumstances where it is important someone (a particular person at a particular time) needs to know, but it doesn't mean telling everyone you meet.
Quote from: Sarah Louise on August 07, 2013, 09:02:39 AM
Stealth (to me) doesn't mean Never telling anyone no matter what the circumstances. Stealth is living your life without Broadcasting who you are.
There will be circumstances where it is important someone (a particular person at a particular time) needs to know, but it doesn't mean telling everyone you meet.
Agreed. It's not problematic in itself that a few people know. I have 4-5 good friends who knows to keep their mouths shut and also understand why they shouldn't be talking about me to other people. Most people though don't understand why it is problematic for me that people talk.
I've confronted friends about it before and they were almost all generally surprised that I didn't want them talking about me. They don't think it's wrong because they see my transition and female persona as something equal to a hobby. They think of it as some kind of an interest I have, like skydivers and coin collectors have. Why would I possibly want to keep my hobby a secret? Isn't the attention part of the fun, right? At least that's how acquaintances who are in the know think of me.
It seems to me there is very little room between being stealth and being open. Either no-one know or everyone knows. I never ever ever ever ever ever tell anyone about my past, yet if I'm invited to a party or wedding or something it is almost guaranteed that everyone there knows about me. Even the people I've never met or even heard of before. Often, when I greet these people they realize I'm the TS they heard so much about and they can't help but start talking about it LOUDLY SO EVERYONE CAN HEAR IN CASE THEY DIDN'T ALREADY KNOW!!!! Sometimes they even know my former name and theyl go "Your name used to be xxx, right?" :embarrassed:
A few years back I moved out of the city to a quiet neighborhood. A few days after we had moved we was out in the garden having a few drinks with some friends and family when one of our new neighbors came to greet us. Almost the first thing he said was "So, you're the transsexual, huh?" and went on to talk at great length about all the transvestits he had encountered in his life. I was baffled that he already knew and as it turned out he is a friend of the landlord I had when I transitioned 10 years ago. The guy is a yapper so I think it's pretty much guaranteed that every single person living within half a mile knows about me by now. :icon_help:
Quote from: MariaMx on August 07, 2013, 09:46:30 AM
every single person living within half a mile knows about me by now. :icon_help:
I'm not sure what to say, but it's very upsetting. I experience vicariously a feeling of dehumanisation by reading this. It's absolutely not a hobby. It can be nothing further from being a hobby. I envisage smug faces and self-satisfaction from the knowing. If I were in your shoes, I'd be already changing my name, look and moving abroad. :(
Quote from: Nicolette on August 07, 2013, 10:18:55 AM
I'm not sure what to say, but it's very upsetting. I experience vicariously a feeling of dehumanisation by reading this. It's absolutely not a hobby. It can be nothing further from being a hobby. I envisage smug faces and self-satisfaction from the knowing. If I were in your shoes, I'd be already changing my name, look and moving abroad. :(
There aren't so many smug faces really. People in my country are very tolerant and accepting, but as they see me being trans as more of a hobby than a horrific medical condition they don't see any reason to be discreet about it. Mostly I notice by how they look at me, as if I'm the strangest object they've ever seen, or from the things they say that you just know they'd never say to a cis person. I will probably end up moving eventually, but it will probably take me a few years of planning and preparations. I can't just pack up and move to another country where I don't have work and a place to stay lined up. I'd end up on the streets if I did that.
Quote from: MariaMx on August 07, 2013, 09:46:30 AM
AI think it's pretty much guaranteed that every single person living within half a mile knows about me by now.
Certainly true about my work and my social circles. I'm transitioning "in place" so stealth is pretty much impossible.
I have not transitioned from male to transgendered...I transitioned from male to female!!
Quote from: Just Shelly on August 07, 2013, 11:03:08 PM
I have not transitioned from male to transgendered...I transitioned from male to female!!
Haha!!! I absolutely love this post!
I noticed this thread is almost a week old but I haven't been to these forums in a long time, so I'm doing my best to catch up and be somewhat active here.
Anyway, the quote brings me right away to my bottom line on the topic. I've been completely open about my transition from the start, with everyone in my life. From work to family to friends to acquaintances. Not that I obsess on the topic or that I advertise that I am trans - I usually don't bring it up unless someone else does. From my experience, having been 'out' to everyone for a few years now, I do feel like a percentage of people treat me like a transsexual woman rather than a cissexual woman -- it can be glaringly obvious at times.
It's a difficult issue though because you never know from one person to the next, how they are going to treat you after you come out to them, or after they find out from someone else. Sometimes I just want to scream, "I am not a thing! I didn't transition to be treated like a third or other gender - if I was "other gendered" I would tell you! I am a woman! I might be trans but that doesn't make me any less of a woman than my hair color or my profession or the car I drive or what I ate for breakfast this morning!"
I learned from the start to keep my inner, irrational voice to myself. That's not to say my feelings were always irrational though. It can be very frustrating at times because no matter how much I (and those really close to me) feel that I am, or claim to be, the 'same' as a cissexual woman, I AM different because I have the lucky privilege of being trans and cissexuals do not. And arguing the point is often a fruitless exercise. I prefer to keep things as simple as possible, make any necessary clarifications and just be myself.
There have been more than a handful of moments where I've thought to myself, "I wish they never knew me before I started my transition!" or "I wish they never found out I was trans!" But I didn't feel that way because of how I looked or how I acted, I felt that way because of others insensitivity toward me and/or others validation, or lack of validation, of me as a woman.
When I started presenting myself full time as a female, I lacked the sense of self that I used to have when I presented as male. I lacked confidence and security more than I ever had, and I finally realized that was due to me being a woman rather than me being trans.
This can be a very confusing and intricate topic. I totally get why some people prefer to be as stealth as possible. I couldn't tell you which is better for you though I'm sure many of us here could write volumes on the topic and come up with an amazing list of pro's and con's! I only know what was right for me and I knew it without a doubt once I realized all things about my life that my transition was going to change and how long it would take.
I lost my job, I lost family, I lost friends and a community I lived in for 10 years. But I also gained family, kept some good friends, made a few new friends, learned to love myself and be proud of who I am. It means so much to me to be who I am now that I want to share it with everyone. And it's great if others can be happy and accepting of me, but it's more important to me that I am happy and accepting of myself.
I'll stop now because it's getting late and I said a lot more than I planned on saying. Haha!
Quote from: StellaB on July 31, 2013, 07:07:40 PM
I adopt a DEDD (Don't Explain Don't Deny) approach which has become a happy medium.
That's an excellent one!
Would love to use that one too, if you don't mind :-)
Quote from: Kaori on August 16, 2013, 05:06:25 AM
Haha!!! I absolutely love this post!
I noticed this thread is almost a week old but I haven't been to these forums in a long time, so I'm doing my best to catch up and be somewhat active here.
Anyway, the quote brings me right away to my bottom line on the topic. I've been completely open about my transition from the start, with everyone in my life. From work to family to friends to acquaintances. Not that I obsess on the topic or that I advertise that I am trans - I usually don't bring it up unless someone else does. From my experience, having been 'out' to everyone for a few years now, I do feel like a percentage of people treat me like a transsexual woman rather than a cissexual woman -- it can be glaringly obvious at times.
It's a difficult issue though because you never know from one person to the next, how they are going to treat you after you come out to them, or after they find out from someone else. Sometimes I just want to scream, "I am not a thing! I didn't transition to be treated like a third or other gender - if I was "other gendered" I would tell you! I am a woman! I might be trans but that doesn't make me any less of a woman than my hair color or my profession or the car I drive or what I ate for breakfast this morning!"
I learned from the start to keep my inner, irrational voice to myself. That's not to say my feelings were always irrational though. It can be very frustrating at times because no matter how much I (and those really close to me) feel that I am, or claim to be, the 'same' as a cissexual woman, I AM different because I have the lucky privilege of being trans and cissexuals do not. And arguing the point is often a fruitless exercise. I prefer to keep things as simple as possible, make any necessary clarifications and just be myself.
There have been more than a handful of moments where I've thought to myself, "I wish they never knew me before I started my transition!" or "I wish they never found out I was trans!" But I didn't feel that way because of how I looked or how I acted, I felt that way because of others insensitivity toward me and/or others validation, or lack of validation, of me as a woman.
When I started presenting myself full time as a female, I lacked the sense of self that I used to have when I presented as male. I lacked confidence and security more than I ever had, and I finally realized that was due to me being a woman rather than me being trans.
This can be a very confusing and intricate topic. I totally get why some people prefer to be as stealth as possible. I couldn't tell you which is better for you though I'm sure many of us here could write volumes on the topic and come up with an amazing list of pro's and con's! I only know what was right for me and I knew it without a doubt once I realized all things about my life that my transition was going to change and how long it would take.
I lost my job, I lost family, I lost friends and a community I lived in for 10 years. But I also gained family, kept some good friends, made a few new friends, learned to love myself and be proud of who I am. It means so much to me to be who I am now that I want to share it with everyone. And it's great if others can be happy and accepting of me, but it's more important to me that I am happy and accepting of myself.
I'll stop now because it's getting late and I said a lot more than I planned on saying. Haha!
Thank you :)
Although I don't necessarily share the same opinion I highlighted. Though I do feel less confidant at times, this is only because of the way I am treated because of my gender. This can be overcome by being more assertive...but I was not assertive in my previous gender...so I have an even harder time now. I do know and work with some woman that are assertive...some of them are not liked the best! I feel much less confident (secure) being trans....hence the want for stealth.
I think many that say they are proud to be trans may not fully support this belief themselves. If so, why take so much effort in changing appearance, voice, body shape, and the ultimate.... genitalia (for which no one can plainly see) if you are fine being identified as trans. Why even change your name???
This is my opinion...I'm sure there are some that disagree. You have the right to your opinion as well! Like I originally said....I did transition to become transgendered...is this how I have to define myself at times?...yes! Do I have to enjoy it? No! This does not mean I would deny who I am when need be....but I would not want or expect anyone to relate to me as a transgendered person once they knew.
I had this happen early on in my transition. My children's school counselor felt I would still prefer to be referred to as Mr or him because I told her I will always be my children's father....I would never want that to change nor could I in my children's eyes....for others I am simply their mother. I only found this out later when she referred to me as him to another teacher and this was really confusing them. I thought as a counselor she wasn't too smart. I had a talk with her telling her I am not going through all of this to still be referred to as "him" or "Mr"...I suppose I could of told her that she could refer to me as "trans" ?????
Quote from: StellaB on July 31, 2013, 07:07:40 PM
I adopt a DEDD (Don't Explain Don't Deny) approach which has become a happy medium.
Kia Ora Stella,
The "
Middle Path"...The Buddha's teachings in a nutshell ;) ;D
Metta Zenda :)
Yeah... I don't think I'm going to be able to do the stealth thing for several reasons. I mean, yeah, it is likely that I may pass OK once all is said and done. But as was mentioned, I just don't think I could take the emotional burden of withholding something about myself from people. I always like being open with everyone. It is my problem. I am WAY too open. I'd feel as if I was lying by withholding information. Then there is the fact that I can't be stealth because my business clients would know about me. I'm not looking forward to possibly losing them when I start to transition. Then I also was asked to be an advocate by two nonprofit organizations for a joint project to stop discrimination against the LGBTQIA community and the "disabled," and that would require that I be public in front of the whole world, so I'm not even sure if I can handle that. So yeah... I'm trying to figure out the whole stealth or open thing, too. I guess I will find out eventually when it comes to that.
allthough I do hate the bull->-bleeped-<- like you girls do... I still need to be open.
If a boyfriend cant deal with being thought of as gay... he is not worth my time really.
I know how difficult it all is though... and I hate the prejudice just as much as you girls do!
I could care less what choice someone makes in this one.
What I can point out is that nearly every post op woman I have met does not talk about her past with other people. As a matter of fact she regrets her younger days when she was perhaps more open. Some of these women ran their mouths so much that they deeply regret what they did in the pre op days.
I sometimes see people say hey we had this girl in the community and then as time went by she no longer was part of it. They then go on to ask why that is.
It is natural people. Some people make their dreams come true and then move on to new life adventures. As they become women (in the eyes of the world) they have less and less in common with this trans community.
Katie
For me its easy, for those who knew me before I am out, for those I meet now I let them work it out or not work it out. I don't know how you would classify that. *shrugs* I am just being me.
Quote from: Katie on October 28, 2013, 09:32:46 AM
I could care less what choice someone makes in this one.
What I can point out is that nearly every post op woman I have met does not talk about her past with other people. As a matter of fact she regrets her younger days when she was perhaps more open. Some of these women ran their mouths so much that they deeply regret what they did in the pre op days.
I sometimes see people say hey we had this girl in the community and then as time went by she no longer was part of it. They then go on to ask why that is.
It is natural people. Some people make their dreams come true and then move on to new life adventures. As they become women (in the eyes of the world) they have less and less in common with this trans community.
Katie
Some of us aren't even post-op.. I've slipped away from the community, I'm busy living my life and see no need to advertise..
I am completely stealth, except for the five or six hundred people I have told, and anyone they have told, and anyone who looks at any social media where I have pictures of my previous presentation, or references and recommendations made to my old name. I am happy and comfortable living this way, though I know it isn't right for everyone.
10 days ago I came out to 20 friends who participate in a spoken word poetry group with me. Avoiding aspects of my past that would have outed me was preventing me from performing, and perfecting, some of my best work, and after spending 15 hours of intense emotion with them, it felt like time. It was cathartic, and liberating, to feel safe and accepted by these men and women who were already fond of me and admiring of my work. In some ways it may distance me, by making me more the "other", but my personality is adept at bridging gaps, and if anything they were warmer and more genuine, reflecting back what I felt.
I think it was that experience that gave me the final push to apply for a job (long shot, but truly my dream job) that would out me to about 2 million people more or less. I will find out next week if I get to interview for it.
I think what makes the decision for me is that 1) I feel a sense of vocation, or calling, that grows stronger every day; and 2) I am not the least bit bothered by becoming a representative "other" in peoples' minds. If they knew how "other" I really am, the transgender history would seem the most ordinary and least unusual thing about me. And that is something I have a gift for doing... people who know me, realize that there is nothing abnormal, threatening, or scary about transgender people, they are just "us" with slightly different struggles in their past.
When writing and speaking I try to keep the scale human and personal, and I hope and intend for many people to hear or read my work and hopefully be enlightened by it. I once intended to use pen names and to be completely stealth in all of my differences, including my trans history, but that was before I discovered how many people are hurting and don't have anyone effectively advocating in their name to the governors, senators, CEOs, church leaders, media. If I can be a little log in an enormous flood roaring down from the mountains, then I will be glad to float out front adding my voice to the roar.
Quote from: Kelly the Post-Trans-Rebel on October 28, 2013, 12:11:09 PM
Some of us aren't even post-op.. I've slipped away from the community, I'm busy living my life and see no need to advertise..
I almost forgot that the so-called 'community' even exists. lol. Pre-op, I
never talked about my 'past'. I am an
extremely private person. I'm not sure what being post-op has anything to do with stealth.
Quote from: Nicolette on October 29, 2013, 07:12:55 AM
I almost forgot that the so-called 'community' even exists. lol. Pre-op, I never talked about my 'past'. I am an extremely private person. I'm not sure what being post-op has anything to do with stealth.
I believe she was referring to something I was talking about. That being one learning to keep their mouths shut and not talk to other people about being trans. Bare in mind I never used the word stealth. I just was talking about not telling people.
As a matter of fact in my life I would never use the phrase stealth. The reason being I have no idea to what extent people figure me out. I just don't have that feedback that I used to have when I was early in transition. What I do do is never talk to people about being trans.
At some point in my journey I realized I really was the woman I knew I was. At that point I came to realize that it was kind of silly to advertise that I was trans if I was a woman.
I choose to be just a woman.
Katie
Kia Ora,
"Stealth or Open ?" Yes to both...
Metta Zenda :)
Only you can answer this question, unfortunately. You must do some soul-searching. Make a list of the pros and cons for both stealth and being open. Personally, I like to live stealth except with family/friends. It is unfortunate and true that often people do find out in the long-term anyway. Plus it is far nicer not to have to hide who you are. But then, on the other hand, people never 'get it'. They consider MTFs gay men and FTMs lesbians, even though, of course, there are innumerable MTF lesbians and FTM gay men. People also make assumptions and stereotype us, so I can see an argument for stealth. Time to make that pros and cons list for each, babe ....:)
I'm not totally sure the exact meaning of stealth. I do know open though. I live in a downtown area by a university. I'm taking baby steps to change. I've live in the same place for 15 years and don't plan to move. when I go full time Its going to be pretty obvious. It's a small downtown.
Quote from: Katie on October 29, 2013, 08:39:22 AM
I believe she was referring to something I was talking about. That being one learning to keep their mouths shut and not talk to other people about being trans. Bare in mind I never used the word stealth. I just was talking about not telling people.
As a matter of fact in my life I would never use the phrase stealth. The reason being I have no idea to what extent people figure me out. I just don't have that feedback that I used to have when I was early in transition. What I do do is never talk to people about being trans.
At some point in my journey I realized I really was the woman I knew I was. At that point I came to realize that it was kind of silly to advertise that I was trans if I was a woman.
I choose to be just a woman.
Katie
This is the boat I'm in. I'm not too sure if many people around me know, but I don't talk about it unless the subject comes up and I'm sure they know. I've been working at my job for 3 months now, and I'm not too sure anybody knows yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if somebody looked me up on Facebook and noticed all of my transsexual friends that I don't hide and put it together. It doesn't matter, because everybody still treats me as female; my male bosses still call me the same pet names that they call all of their other female employees. Honestly I'd like to keep it that way, so even if my company DOES know ... I'm not going to advertise it.
Cherie: you echo my sentiments exactly. I can totally relate to your saying people being overly respectful to the point of oily. Patronizing, and in my experience, is usually (not always) insincere. Fake and forced inclusions in girly socials etc make us feel like a freak, as you say. Plus, like you, I pass very well, and I actually think that in many ways that makes it harder for both us and the ''discovering'' party when they find out. People are intrigued on how you could possibly be so feminine, and yes, they do scan your body and analyse it. Not nice for us to have to endure. I say you should get out of there if you can. Move! If you want to chat, I'm here. Anybody, not just you :)
I guess I'm in a "we'll see" stage. I'm getting a new job soon, and I'd like to be hired... I feel I have a better chance of being hired if I present male, and then transition full time female while on the job. Its a cubicle job, so I don't see anyone screwing with me too bad.
As far as going full time and weather or not I'm gonna go stealth or not goes... Well, I don't know anyone who didn't know me as a male previously lol. So Its a little difficult to go stealth. I know people are gonna talk to new people, and crap's gonna probably fly, so I can't go into this not expecting it. But for now, what I'm gonna do is ignore the fact that I ever was presenting as male. I'm a woman, always have been, and its unfortunate that up until now I've been "under cover" so to speak.