I just had my appointment with my endo dr. and the reason I haven't been getting any changes is b/c my levels haven't been in the normal male range. My T levels were only 4x higher than a females the Dr. said. This is so frustrating. No wonder why I have trouble passing and my voice is still so high. I have not masculized in over a year. I just look like a masculine girl... especially when I shave. The scrappy patchy little bit of facial hair I have masculizes me a little bit. Without it I just look like a masculine girl. With it, I look like a masculine girl with facial hair. I kinda just stayed at the 1 year mark for over a year with no changes. My Dr. doubled my dose so hopefully in my next few shots I'll have some changes(if my T levels are right). I'm hoping that with this higher dose that my facial hair will get thicker and darker and the hair will fill in on the other side so it doesn't look so bad and my voice will get deeper. This has been so frustrating being on T for over 2 years with very little change. Now I'm worried about the acne again with the higher dose. I hope it won't be too bad. I should be done with the acne by now. This totally sucks! I'm gonna have band aids all over my face if I get acne.
Here is a compassion photo so you can see I haven't had much change at all. I pretty much look the same. I haven't masculized much at all. Only a little bit.
Pre-T over 2 years on T Taken in June 2013
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi852.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab86%2FBrody_81%2FMePreT300_zps110ace46.jpg&hash=88c413ac5664115749014e20b1611ecd0e88148c) (http://s852.photobucket.com/user/Brody_81/media/MePreT300_zps110ace46.jpg.html) (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi852.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fab86%2FBrody_81%2FMeJune201312_zps6d2b884f.jpg&hash=60ac163073c3d93e6e78d132645ad4b27ed5f67a) (http://s852.photobucket.com/user/Brody_81/media/MeJune201312_zps6d2b884f.jpg.html)
Apparently you have another side effect. Your eyesight is not good.
I see lots of masculine changes in your face.
Your shoulders seem broader, although it might be as of you are in a different position, while your face seems a have changed quite a bit, look out your cheeks and chin.
Wow. I would never mistake you for a girl. Your pre-T photo looks like a 15 year-old boy. Your post-T photo looks like a good looking guy. You're lucky that you had some naturally masculine features to start off with.
I'm usually the bearer of bad news on this site because I'm honest... but I see obvious changes in your face. Less facial fat.
I wouldn't think you're anything but male in the after picture, nothing fem about you at all.
Yeah, you look great. Your facial structure looks different than in the first photo, so I must be seeing changes that you don't. I do think you have a masculine look in both pictures though.
Quote from: Jamie D on August 05, 2013, 04:35:37 PM
Apparently you have another side effect. Your eyesight is not good.
I see lots of masculine changes in your face.
Really? I don't see a whole lot of changes. Just a little bit. Pics are so devising though. I don't think in person I look that masculine.
Quote from: SaveMeJeebus on August 05, 2013, 04:40:38 PM
Your shoulders seem broader, although it might be as of you are in a different position, while your face seems a have changed quite a bit, look out your cheeks and chin.
Yeah, it could be the position I'm in that makes my shoulders look broader, not sure. I'm always wondering if it's the angel that makes my cheeks and chin look different...?
Quote from: Nicolette on August 05, 2013, 04:42:32 PM
Wow. I would never mistake you for a girl. Your pre-T photo looks like a 15 year-old boy. Your post-T photo looks like a good looking guy. You're lucky that you had some naturally masculine features to start off with.
Thanks. I still get mis-gendered too. A video might be a better judge as to why I'm getting mis-gendered. I'll try to get a video up sometime soon. Pre-T I hardly ever passed when I was in my late teens maybe...? But I always wore my hair a bit longer. As a kid it varied in length.
Quote from: =celestica= on August 05, 2013, 04:46:40 PM
I'm usually the bearer of bad news on this site because I'm honest... but I see obvious changes in your face. Less facial fat.
I wouldn't think you're anything but male in the after picture, nothing fem about you at all.
Thanks.
Quote from: Tadpole on August 05, 2013, 04:49:49 PM
Yeah, you look great. Your facial structure looks different than in the first photo, so I must be seeing changes that you don't. I do think you have a masculine look in both pictures though.
Thanks.
I'm not sure why then I'm getting mis-gender still. I just went into this pizza place and I could have sworn the guy called me hun.... what guy calls another guy hun? That upset me last night and just brought my confidence down again in passing.
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 05, 2013, 04:54:25 PM
I'm not sure why then I'm getting mis-gender still. I just went into this pizza place and I could have sworn the guy called me hun.... what guy calls another guy hun? That upset me last night and just brought my confidence down again in passing.
To be honest, that sounds really insane judging from the photo. As you said, a video may make it more obvious what the problem could be.
Dude! I see a lot of changes!
Maybe the pizza dude was gay? I know gay guys who call folks hun. Or maybe it was son? I know at least in Scotland that's common but I've heard it elsewhere. I still use it on occasion myself.
Quote from: Nicolette on August 05, 2013, 04:59:52 PM
To be honest, that sounds really insane judging from the photo. As you said, a video may make it more obvious what the problem could be.
Yeah, a video might be better. I'll have to make a short little video and put it up.
Quote from: Jack_M on August 05, 2013, 05:03:18 PM
Dude! I see a lot of changes!
Maybe the pizza dude was gay? I know gay guys who call folks hun. Or maybe it was son? I know at least in Scotland that's common but I've heard it elsewhere. I still use it on occasion myself.
lol, that's what my mom said, that he was probably gay. Yeah, he could have said son. He said it so low I couldn't hear, but it sounded like hun, but possibly could have been son.
It says the photos were moved or deleted so I don't know. The avatar looks male to me.
I think some of it is in attitude and self-confidence. (And actually cisguys are misgendered too, esp if there is some feminine to their presentation.
Look Dominick, I am very small 5'1" and about 120 lbs. I have a small frame and no arm hair (or little). I have a bit of shadow of a stache (which I took hair dye to). But I am passing 5 months on T. I am pretty sure that some of it is just confidence that I am who I am presenting to be.
BTW, gay guys sometimes call each other girl. At least it is common here.
One thing I have seen sometimes is that trans guys who aren't passing too much, if they care that is, need to stack the deck towards more conventional gender presentation. It seems to help. Passing is just a tricky thing and I am not altogether sure why I pass HALF the time or why I don't pass HALF the time.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on August 05, 2013, 06:01:21 PM
It says the photos were moved or deleted so I don't know. The avatar looks male to me.
I think some of it is in attitude and self-confidence. (And actually cisguys are misgendered too, esp if there is some feminine to their presentation.
Look Dominick, I am very small 5'1" and about 120 lbs. I have a small frame and no arm hair (or little). I have a bit of shadow of a stache (which I took hair dye to). But I am passing 5 months on T. I am pretty sure that some of it is just confidence that I am who I am presenting to be.
BTW, gay guys sometimes call each other girl. At least it is common here.
One thing I have seen sometimes is that trans guys who aren't passing too much, if they care that is, need to stack the deck towards more conventional gender presentation. It seems to help. Passing is just a tricky thing and I am not altogether sure why I pass HALF the time or why I don't pass HALF the time.
--Jay
Yeah, I just took the photos down. I'm gonna try to get a video up and maybe you guys can tell me what's getting me mis-gendered.
I don't think there's anything feminine about me, but when I get the video up, hopefully you guys can tell me if there is anything feminine to me.
btw.. the avatar isn't me, but I wish I looked like that.
Maybe cut your hair? Maybe try a shorter hair cut. It might help. Couldn't hurt.
Quote from: Darrin Scott on August 05, 2013, 09:12:14 PM
Maybe cut your hair? Maybe try a shorter hair cut. It might help. Couldn't hurt.
I do pass more with my short hair, but I like long hair better. I wanna be able to pass with my long hair.
Well I don't know why you are aren't passing with long hair, but you complain so bitterly about not passing (since I have been on the board quite a number of times) maybe there is some other kind of hair cut that's short that you might like.
I have no idea why people with significant facial hair don't pass. It just amazes me.
--Jay
I would suggest you have your doctor do a Karotype test to determine your genetic (not hormonal) birth sex. I would not be surprised if you have some degree of a condition called AIS - I did see changes in your pictures and was weighing whether to post or not because I know I'm going the other way, but I have quite a bit of experience on the T before I stopped taking it and switched to E, and you're right that the changes seen so far are more subtle than expected. When you get blood tests, is your E level checked at all? I'm guessing things might have been overlooked because you're taking T which is expected to stop E production. But if I'm right, some of the T might not be useful to your body, and you may still have elevated E levels. It's worth checking if you have any question on your progress. Best to discuss with your doc next time you see hir. Could be nothing, but if you do have an intersex condition you didn't know about, it's easily worked around as long as the docs know about it.
Quote from: lissabuchannon on August 06, 2013, 12:59:13 AM
I would suggest you have your doctor do a Karotype test to determine your genetic (not hormonal) birth sex. I would not be surprised if you have some degree of a condition called AIS - I did see changes in your pictures and was weighing whether to post or not because I know I'm going the other way, but I have quite a bit of experience on the T before I stopped taking it and switched to E, and you're right that the changes seen so far are more subtle than expected. When you get blood tests, is your E level checked at all? I'm guessing things might have been overlooked because you're taking T which is expected to stop E production. But if I'm right, some of the T might not be useful to your body, and you may still have elevated E levels. It's worth checking if you have any question on your progress. Best to discuss with your doc next time you see hir. Could be nothing, but if you do have an intersex condition you didn't know about, it's easily worked around as long as the docs know about it.
See, I knew it! I knew I didn't have any major changes. It's been over 2 years on T. I should look a lot more masculine. I'm so disappointed with my results from T after 2 years. Having sublte results is very upsetting over 2 years on T.
How is that I go from being in the normal male Range to bring way below the normal male range on the same dosage? I've had problems from the start with my dosage. It just seemed like it was never ever right. And then I get in the normal male range for a certain amount of who knows how long and then it goes low again. Will I ever actually get more than just sublte changes? This transition has been so frustrating. Had I been give the correct dosages from the beginning I probably would have had more than just subtle changes and I wouldn't be so upset.
@Aleon515: I do have a short haircut that I go and get, but I'd rather have long hair. At this point in my transition I shouldn't have to cut my hair just to get a passing, ya know what I mean?
This is just a guess, but I'd imagine that effective dosage for t is, to at least some extent, based on a variety of changing factors, like tolerance and body mass, rather than constant like you might expect. So I don't think it's that weird to have your levels be normal for a while
and then drop off.
That being said, I think you and your haircut pass just fine, and if anything is getting you looked at sideways, it's probably the fact that you look so guilty and anxious.
No idea why a 1. and 2. appeared in my last post. Tablets are weird.
Quote
See, I knew it! I knew I didn't have any major changes. It's been over 2 years on T. I should look a lot more masculine. I'm so disappointed with my results from T after 2 years. Having sublte results is very upsetting over 2 years on T.
How is that I go from being in the normal male Range to bring way below the normal male range on the same dosage? I've had problems from the start with my dosage. It just seemed like it was never ever right. And then I get in the normal male range for a certain amount of who knows how long and then it goes low again. Will I ever actually get more than just sublte changes? This transition has been so frustrating. Had I been give the correct dosages from the beginning I probably would have had more than just subtle changes and I wouldn't be so upset.
Everyone I know who has done T MTF has changed in months almost beyond recognition, but YMMV due to genetics, levels, etc. Not everyone is the same, I just think it's worth looking into it. I'm probably the worst person to come up with any answers tho, being born in between and forced, as I feel now, into an FTM transition. Really, I don't know what to call it when you're told to shoot T and HGH every 2 wks from 16 yrs old...........All I know is based on the changes that happened to me from 16-18 without any natural T, and only having HRT for it.....the changes were noticeable in weeks. In a few months, noticeable to everyone else around me. I seriously think you'll have no problems passing at all, but know from looking at you that you can look totally cisgendered with the right medical testing and approach. I'm only trying to help, I'm not criticizing, cause god knows, I'll never pass as either M or F myself, and I'm finally ok with that. XO Alicia
how is it i always miss seeing your pictures dom! >.<
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 07, 2013, 12:47:42 AM
See, I knew it! I knew I didn't have any major changes. It's been over 2 years on T. I should look a lot more masculine. I'm so disappointed with my results from T after 2 years. Having sublte results is very upsetting over 2 years on T.
How is that I go from being in the normal male Range to bring way below the normal male range on the same dosage? I've had problems from the start with my dosage. It just seemed like it was never ever right. And then I get in the normal male range for a certain amount of who knows how long and then it goes low again. Will I ever actually get more than just sublte changes? This transition has been so frustrating. Had I been give the correct dosages from the beginning I probably would have had more than just subtle changes and I wouldn't be so upset.
@Aleon515: I do have a short haircut that I go and get, but I'd rather have long hair. At this point in my transition I shouldn't have to cut my hair just to get a passing, ya know what I mean?
Well perhaps you actually need to count your time on T differently but you actually do look more than superficially guy. I think this almost sounds like dysphoria on your part.
It doesn't matter what type of haircut you have. Just seems to me that you are so upset about not passing that you might want to do everything you could to pass. Long hair is somewhat tricky. I like guys with long hair, heck reminds me of my youth when all the hippie guys had the long hair. :) I think you look good with it, you have a kind of cute scruffy style, but sometimes cisguys don't get read as male if they have long hair. And sometimes it might be a redneck way of reacting. I don't know if there is still blow back for guys wearing long hair, but there might be to any more feminine presentation. I don't think it is true that if you were on T you might pass all the time. I know of guys 4 years on T with full beards who occasionally get ma'amed. Not sure, but perhaps it is passive aggressive to guys who appear gay in their minds.
--Jay
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 07, 2013, 12:47:42 AM
See, I knew it! I knew I didn't have any major changes. It's been over 2 years on T. I should look a lot more masculine. I'm so disappointed with my results from T after 2 years. Having sublte results is very upsetting over 2 years on T.
It's almost like you search for someone to validate how you feel about yourself. Out of all the people who have responded to you, you cling to the one view that says you have subtle changes. The real question to ask yourself is how you're treated the majority of the time. Do you get questioned about your gender from guys at work? Are you constantly getting ma'am from people? What sort of percentage are you talking about here because most transfolks get misgendered on occasion. Is it people walking up behind you that misgender you? I could see that happening because in your video you look short. Add long hair to that and from behind you probably do look female. Not ripping you but just being realistic. There are certain visual ques that people stereotypically assign to a certain gender.
In medical transition there are two aspects, what we want to happen to us physically and what actually occurs to us with hormones. How long have you been on a steady dose of injections? If memory serves me correct you were on gel and also Finasteride for awhile. Gel takes longer than injections to show results. Finasteride can slow down results too, so while you have in your head that you should look a certain way by now what are you basing that on? That you've been on injections for a solid two years? Different methods take different amounts of time and playing around with things never helps. The best thing to do is give it time and relax. Rome wasn't built in a day.
Dominick - here's some honesty
you said you were less than 5 ft tall last time you made a thread like this right?
A cisguy would get misgendered randomly if they were that height, especially with longer hair and wearing bulky layers
You can't change how tall you are, so you will need to build confidence and own yourself. That will help tremendously. I think you have great changes and pass very well.
Quote from: Si on August 07, 2013, 02:41:38 PM
It's almost like you search for someone to validate how you feel about yourself. Out of all the people who have responded to you, you cling to the one view that says you have subtle changes.
That's not what I intended to do :( but this is a great point you have made. Maybe he was looking for a response sorta like that to validate what he's already feeling about himself. Doesn't hurt to discuss with his doctor though, since he or she may be able to help him feel better about himself even if it's just addressing dysphoria
Quote from: spacerace on August 07, 2013, 03:06:03 PM
Dominick - here's some honesty
you said you were less than 5 ft tall last time you made a thread like this right?
A cisguy would get misgendered randomly if they were that height, especially with longer hair and wearing bulky layers
You can't change how tall you are, so you will need to build confidence and own yourself. That will help tremendously. I think you have great changes and pass very well.
I know a transguy who is 5'1 but I (think) he passes most of the time because he has confidence.
Quote from: Si on August 07, 2013, 02:41:38 PM
It's almost like you search for someone to validate how you feel about yourself. Out of all the people who have responded to you, you cling to the one view that says you have subtle changes. The real question to ask yourself is how you're treated the majority of the time. Do you get questioned about your gender from guys at work? Are you constantly getting ma'am from people? What sort of percentage are you talking about here because most transfolks get misgendered on occasion. Is it people walking up behind you that misgender you? I could see that happening because in your video you look short. Add long hair to that and from behind you probably do look female. Not ripping you but just being realistic. There are certain visual ques that people stereotypically assign to a certain gender.
In medical transition there are two aspects, what we want to happen to us physically and what actually occurs to us with hormones. How long have you been on a steady dose of injections? If memory serves me correct you were on gel and also Finasteride for awhile. Gel takes longer than injections to show results. Finasteride can slow down results too, so while you have in your head that you should look a certain way by now what are you basing that on? That you've been on injections for a solid two years? Different methods take different amounts of time and playing around with things never helps. The best thing to do is give it time and relax. Rome wasn't built in a day.
I think it's all mostly dysphoria on his part, plus he might be misgendered from behind that that kind of thing. Heck if I get misgendered from behind. I turn around and use my voice and a lot of time I get sirred. I count that as a pass. See I wonder if Dominic would count that as a pass? Because I sense a great deal of negativism on his part.
That all said about gel vs injections, I think it is unusual for someone on gel not to pass after 2 years. I know of one or two people who couldn't absorb it. I don't know about how Finasteride might play in here, as I don't know anybody who has done gel and Finasteride. I know several guys now transitioning only on gel/cream. I am maybe doing a little bit less well, but still passing 50% at 6 months. I attribute some of this to age and build. But the guys I know have done their whole transitions on gel.
The thing is if the gel is working for you, you should get the injections, get a short hair cut for a year or two or whatever, and that maybe you could stop feeling so bad. I think you're feeling so bad is more or less your dysphoria though and somethign you should maybe talk to a psychologist or counselor about.
--Jay
Quote from: Elijah on August 08, 2013, 01:21:04 PM
I know a transguy who is 5'1 but I (think) he passes most of the time because he has confidence.
I'm 5'1 and pass about 100% of the time. It is possible and confidence has a lot to do with it.
Quote from: Darrin Scott on August 09, 2013, 09:49:12 AM
I'm 5'1 and pass about 100% of the time. It is possible and confidence has a lot to do with it.
In another 6 months, and I probably will too. Same height and older (though the latter may work for me, I don't know). (5 1/2 months on T and the t-cream too). I'm now passing about 50%, actually haven't been misgendered in person since I dyed the 'stache.
--Jay
Sorry guys for the late responses, I've been so tired from work. The job is over though. It was only 3 days.
I might have lost some post responses as the back button got accidentally hit and I lost everything, and I didn't want to type this all over again so I apologize if there are any missed posts.
Quote from: MaybeBen on August 07, 2013, 01:52:55 AM
This is just a guess, but I'd imagine that effective dosage for t is, to at least some extent, based on a variety of changing factors, like tolerance and body mass, rather than constant like you might expect. So I don't think it's that weird to have your levels be normal for a while
and then drop off.
That being said, I think you and your haircut pass just fine, and if anything is getting you looked at sideways, it's probably the fact that you look so guilty and anxious.
Since it's been over 2 years my endo doctor only checks my T levels every 6 months now. I liked it better when I was getting my T levels checked every 3 months so in case my T levels drop my dosage could be raised.
True, but if they also see me side ways they also see my facial hair too...
Quote from: lissabuchannon on August 07, 2013, 02:13:03 AM
Everyone I know who has done T MTF has changed in months almost beyond recognition, but YMMV due to genetics, levels, etc. Not everyone is the same, I just think it's worth looking into it. I'm probably the worst person to come up with any answers tho, being born in between and forced, as I feel now, into an FTM transition. Really, I don't know what to call it when you're told to shoot T and HGH every 2 wks from 16 yrs old...........All I know is based on the changes that happened to me from 16-18 without any natural T, and only having HRT for it.....the changes were noticeable in weeks. In a few months, noticeable to everyone else around me. I seriously think you'll have no problems passing at all, but know from looking at you that you can look totally cisgendered with the right medical testing and approach. I'm only trying to help, I'm not criticizing, cause god knows, I'll never pass as either M or F myself, and I'm finally ok with that. XO Alicia
Yeah, that's what I think should have happen with me... changing where I'm not recognized by people who knew me before. People who haven't seen me in over 10, 15 years still recongzied me. They say I look the same, but look more masculine... that's all.
My endo doctor hasn't suggested any testing. She thinks my voice is deep enough and she doesn't know why I'm having trouble passing.
I don't get mis-gendered a whole lot. Once in a great while. But whenever I'm in public I never know who people are seeing me. Are they seeing male or are they seeing female or they can't tell.
When I do go out in public, I do have confidence. I fake it. So when I get mis-gendered, I'm taken by surprise and I don't say anything. Though, it's on the tip of my tongue to do so.
Like when I thought I might have got'n mis-gendered at the pizza place... he said it so low I didn't really hear what he said and it was possible I didn't get mis-gendered and then again, it could have been I was mis-gendered, so in that case I didn't say anything.
I still can't pass over the phone though, but I've got'n to the point now that I will speak up over the phone or I will just hang up on the person like I did last time b/c the a**hole wasn't listening to me when I told him I was a guy.
Quote from: Geek on August 07, 2013, 06:22:49 AM
how is it i always miss seeing your pictures dom! >.<
lol, Not sure dude. Did you catch the videos I put up before I took them down?
Quote from: aleon515 on August 07, 2013, 12:42:46 PM
Well perhaps you actually need to count your time on T differently but you actually do look more than superficially guy. I think this almost sounds like dysphoria on your part.
It doesn't matter what type of haircut you have. Just seems to me that you are so upset about not passing that you might want to do everything you could to pass. Long hair is somewhat tricky. I like guys with long hair, heck reminds me of my youth when all the hippie guys had the long hair. :) I think you look good with it, you have a kind of cute scruffy style, but sometimes cisguys don't get read as male if they have long hair. And sometimes it might be a redneck way of reacting. I don't know if there is still blow back for guys wearing long hair, but there might be to any more feminine presentation. I don't think it is true that if you were on T you might pass all the time. I know of guys 4 years on T with full beards who occasionally get ma'amed. Not sure, but perhaps it is passive aggressive to guys who appear gay in their minds.
--Jay
I guess your right, I have to count the time I've been on T and the times when the T wasn't where it was supposed to be and counting the andro gel that didn't work at all for me. I started Andro gel from Aug 20th 2012 to Dec. 2012. I was back on T shot Dec. 17th 2012 to present.
Quote from: Si on August 07, 2013, 02:41:38 PM
It's almost like you search for someone to validate how you feel about yourself. Out of all the people who have responded to you, you cling to the one view that says you have subtle changes. The real question to ask yourself is how you're treated the majority of the time. Do you get questioned about your gender from guys at work? Are you constantly getting ma'am from people? What sort of percentage are you talking about here because most transfolks get misgendered on occasion. Is it people walking up behind you that misgender you? I could see that happening because in your video you look short. Add long hair to that and from behind you probably do look female. Not ripping you but just being realistic. There are certain visual ques that people stereotypically assign to a certain gender.
In medical transition there are two aspects, what we want to happen to us physically and what actually occurs to us with hormones. How long have you been on a steady dose of injections? If memory serves me correct you were on gel and also Finasteride for awhile. Gel takes longer than injections to show results. Finasteride can slow down results too, so while you have in your head that you should look a certain way by now what are you basing that on? That you've been on injections for a solid two years? Different methods take different amounts of time and playing around with things never helps. The best thing to do is give it time and relax. Rome wasn't built in a day.
It's b/c people have told me I look the same as I did pre-T, that I Just got a little more masculine, that's all. I'm very recognizable to everyone. When I see those 1 year transitions most of those guys are unrecognizable. Their voices have changed so much and mine has barely changed. I sound like a 15 year boy if I do sound male at all.
No, I don't get questioned about my gender from guys at work. But one guy said to me something like, "31 huh? You have such baby face. You don't look 31." And the other 2 guys agreed that I had a baby face, and that's fine, I don't mind at all looking young. But having that baby face I feel makes people maybe question whether I'm really a guy or trans, ya know?
I don't get mis-gendered often. I just get really upset when it does happen. I can tell the difference between a man and a women. If a man has long hair I can still tell he's a man, b/c he looks like a man. I don't know how people can mistake guys with long hair for a woman...? They look completely male. I just don't get it.
Quote from: spacerace on August 07, 2013, 03:06:03 PM
Dominick - here's some honesty
you said you were less than 5 ft tall last time you made a thread like this right?
A cisguy would get misgendered randomly if they were that height, especially with longer hair and wearing bulky layers
You can't change how tall you are, so you will need to build confidence and own yourself. That will help tremendously. I think you have great changes and pass very well.
Yep, less then 5 ft. tall.
I don't understand why cis guys with long hair get mis-gendered? Can't people tell the difference between male and female?
I think you have great changes and pass very well.Thanks.
Quote from: lissabuchannon on August 07, 2013, 04:03:42 PM
That's not what I intended to do :( but this is a great point you have made. Maybe he was looking for a response sorta like that to validate what he's already feeling about himself. Doesn't hurt to discuss with his doctor though, since he or she may be able to help him feel better about himself even if it's just addressing dysphoria
It's okay. I've been told by many people that I look the same as I did pre-T and that I only look more masculine, but nothing drastic.
I have talked to my doctor about my concerns and she doesn't know why I get mis-gendered either. I've told her I'm not happy with the changes so far and that's when she told me I had 4x the T than what women have and that I should have 10x that so that's why I haven't been getting any changes.
Quote from: Elijah on August 08, 2013, 01:21:04 PM
I know a transguy who is 5'1 but I (think) he passes most of the time because he has confidence.
I fake my confidence. I don't know what the problem is. But like I said before, I don't get doesn't mis-gendered too often. Most of the time people never use pro nouns so I never know how that person is seeing me.
Quote from: aleon515 on August 08, 2013, 01:48:08 PM
I think it's all mostly dysphoria on his part, plus he might be misgendered from behind that that kind of thing. Heck if I get misgendered from behind. I turn around and use my voice and a lot of time I get sirred. I count that as a pass. See I wonder if Dominic would count that as a pass? Because I sense a great deal of negativism on his part.
That all said about gel vs injections, I think it is unusual for someone on gel not to pass after 2 years. I know of one or two people who couldn't absorb it. I don't know about how Finasteride might play in here, as I don't know anybody who has done gel and Finasteride. I know several guys now transitioning only on gel/cream. I am maybe doing a little bit less well, but still passing 50% at 6 months. I attribute some of this to age and build. But the guys I know have done their whole transitions on gel.
The thing is if the gel is working for you, you should get the injections, get a short hair cut for a year or two or whatever, and that maybe you could stop feeling so bad. I think you're feeling so bad is more or less your dysphoria though and somethign you should maybe talk to a psychologist or counselor about.
--Jay
I never get mis-gendered from behind, it's always face to face.
I started T Feb. 15th, 2011 to Aug. 20th, 2012, that's when I switched to andro gel. I started Andro gel from Aug 20th 2012 to Dec. 2012. The andro gel didn't work at all. I went back on T shots Dec. 17th 2012 to present.
Quote from: Darrin Scott on August 09, 2013, 09:49:12 AM
I'm 5'1 and pass about 100% of the time. It is possible and confidence has a lot to do with it.
That's great your passing 100%.
I fake confidence out in public. Not sure why once in a great while I get mis-gendered...?
[/list]
If you only get misgendered once in awhile I think you are passing most of the time, maybe even all the time. (As cisguys get misgendered too. Yes I've seen this.) So I think it says more about them than you, mostly. But why? Heck it can even be passive aggressive dislike for long hair. Or reading someone's body language and not looking at them. or ....
Real confidence works a lot better than fake confidence, btw. It seems natural.
--Jay
It really pains me to hear these kinds of things..Though im sure the anxiety for such things are kicking in by now but for someone like me who has to fight harder then most,just to get on the stupid stuff-makes me wish i even had it to start with *shrugs* though im sure i would be in your place as well,so i guess i can understand that.I cant really give any feed back on it as the pictures dont show for me but i wish you good luck
You look very different! It's just dysphoria on your part, as evidenced by you latching onto the one opinion that says you haven't changed, and ignoring the multitude of positive affirmation of changes people posted, just like Si pointed out. Own the changes those of us who saw the pics and video saw. People who know you in everyday life aren't going to notice huge differences because they know you and the changes happened gradually. People who meet you tomorrow and show them a 2yrs ago picture are going to be shocked. That's why folk do comparison photos and vids because otherwise they might miss the big changes.
Being shorter and having longer hair would, like many have said already, lead to higher chance of misgendering too. It's your right to rock long hair, but of you're this dysphoric, maybe it's not the best look for you. It's just pre-programmed brain assumptions. Long hair = female. Short hair = male. Tall = male. Short = female. Of course not all men or women fit into these categories at all, it's just averages. Our brains make snap judgements on overall look before we focus in on details. At a glance you might see 2 people with the same colour jacket. One has long hair and the other short hair and taller. So your brain jumps to female and male respectively. Then they get closer and you realise it's Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and you had their genders the wrong way round. :P
Also if you get misgendered and don't react, it only confirms something's up. If cis individuals get misgendered they'll speak up!
Quote from: aleon515 on August 09, 2013, 11:13:44 PM
If you only get misgendered once in awhile I think you are passing most of the time, maybe even all the time. (As cisguys get misgendered too. Yes I've seen this.) So I think it says more about them than you, mostly. But why? Heck it can even be passive aggressive dislike for long hair. Or reading someone's body language and not looking at them. or ....
Real confidence works a lot better than fake confidence, btw. It seems natural.
--Jay
Hopefully I'm passing most of the times. Most people don't use pronouns with me, so hopefully I'm passing most of the time.
"Real confidence works a lot better than fake confidence, btw. It seems natural."I can't tell the difference.
Quote from: Jack_M on August 10, 2013, 04:42:15 AM
You look very different! It's just dysphoria on your part, as evidenced by you latching onto the one opinion that says you haven't changed, and ignoring the multitude of positive affirmation of changes people posted, just like Si pointed out. Own the changes those of us who saw the pics and video saw. People who know you in everyday life aren't going to notice huge differences because they know you and the changes happened gradually. People who meet you tomorrow and show them a 2yrs ago picture are going to be shocked. That's why folk do comparison photos and vids because otherwise they might miss the big changes.
Being shorter and having longer hair would, like many have said already, lead to higher chance of misgendering too. It's your right to rock long hair, but of you're this dysphoric, maybe it's not the best look for you. It's just pre-programmed brain assumptions. Long hair = female. Short hair = male. Tall = male. Short = female. Of course not all men or women fit into these categories at all, it's just averages. Our brains make snap judgements on overall look before we focus in on details. At a glance you might see 2 people with the same colour jacket. One has long hair and the other short hair and taller. So your brain jumps to female and male respectively. Then they get closer and you realise it's Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman and you had their genders the wrong way round. :P
Also if you get misgendered and don't react, it only confirms something's up. If cis individuals get misgendered they'll speak up!
"You look very different!"Ya really think so? How come people still recognized me though? And it's people I haven't seen in forever.
My cousins and friends have told me the same thing, that I really don't look that much different. My mother's friend who hasn't seen me in over maybe 5 to 10 years said I look the same too, just more masculine.
I dunno. I feel like I'm supposed to be unrecognizable to people who haven't seen me in forever.
Quote from: Chaos on August 10, 2013, 01:45:07 AM
It really pains me to hear these kinds of things..Though im sure the anxiety for such things are kicking in by now but for someone like me who has to fight harder then most,just to get on the stupid stuff-makes me wish i even had it to start with *shrugs* though im sure i would be in your place as well,so i guess i can understand that.I cant really give any feed back on it as the pictures dont show for me but i wish you good luck
I'm sorry your not on T yet. I hope you are able to get it soon. Are you anywhere near to getting on it?
" i wish you good luck"Thanks.
Your expectations are whacked. Unless you got radical facial surgery you're always going to look like you and be recognised. T doesn't make you unrecognizable! Every video I see on YouTube they still look like themselves, just in a more masculine form. It's especially hard for anyone who was a tomboy pre-transition because then there's not so much of a difference in the way you dress. I get remarks right now near 2 months on T where people say they don't really see much difference because I still dress and act the same, just have a different name. But they're not saying I don't pass, just that they see me as still being the same person (as in personality) and that they're cool with it, almost like this is me being accepted as the real me now.
T can't change the bones of your face. I think you need to talk to a professional about your issues tbh. You have unreal expectations and a warped view of self. This thread says there's no changes when there were tons. It's like an anorexic who looks in a mirror and sees a fat person. It's not healthy!
@Jack-- I think my experience is very similar. I actually frequent the same places pre and post transition. I think most people accept it. I look like me, just MORE like me, if you get my drift. You're not going to become some totally different creature. Would you want to?
--Jay
Quote from: Jack_M on August 10, 2013, 09:38:55 PM
Your expectations are whacked. Unless you got radical facial surgery you're always going to look like you and be recognised. T doesn't make you unrecognizable! Every video I see on YouTube they still look like themselves, just in a more masculine form.
^This.
T doesn't make you look like a completely different person. All it does is make you look like the same person but of the opposite sex. Basically you look like your own opposite gender identical twin, lol.
Quote from: Si on August 11, 2013, 08:09:19 AM
^This.
T doesn't make you look like a completely different person. All it does is make you look like the same person but of the opposite sex. Basically you look like your own opposite gender identical twin, lol.
Opposite gender twin! Perfect! I'm so nicking that. :P
I guess if you look at John and Joan Cussak that's a good comparison too. Like John would be the result if Joan was on our journey because they look VERY much alike! Lol. I know I'm going to look like my brother. My dad would sometimes mix us up in photos pre-T, unless height was obvious because my brother is 6'4"!!!
And yeah, Jay, definitely seems like we're in the same place. Some have remarked that somehow they expected more to change but now they think about it they realise there wasn't much to change and this has always been me. So all they know to expect now is voice and facial hair changes.
And yeah, we are who we are, I don't want to lose who I am to become the real me, I just want myself and the world to see the true me on the outside. Not a new person; the true ME!
I actually like that one. If someone wonders and I don't feel like splaining it to them, I actually thought of it. "I'm Jay, _____'s twin brother. LOL. I wonder if people think this already.
--Jay
[I'm sorry your not on T yet. I hope you are able to get it soon. Are you anywhere near to getting on it?
No but im working as hard as i can and spending almost ALL my time on the phone.im currently having issues with insurance and plus i live in a place that is limited on resources but they are only offered to certain types of people (good money,good insurance,certain locations) and its proving to be a huge challenge.But i will or ill die trying (mixed feelings on that one meh)
No one has to apologize to us for not being on T. I'm sorry if you want to be and can't. But that's different. Perhaps you want to start your own thread though?? This particular guy is on T but does not feel he has made any changes. Of course, most of us here disagree.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on August 12, 2013, 09:33:20 AM
No one has to apologize to us for not being on T. I'm sorry if you want to be and can't. But that's different. Perhaps you want to start your own thread though?? This particular guy is on T but does not feel he has made any changes. Of course, most of us here disagree.
--Jay
I understand that and the reason i posted that was to give understanding (i also stated i would be in his spot as well IF i was on it) but also to say,sometimes we forget and become consumed by our need,forgetting that others arent as lucky to have it at all.Please dont see it as negative,because it was far from it.And no,he had no reason to be sorry for my bad luck and was very kind of him to say so anyway.We become so eager and even anxiety takes over,the longer we wait.We start patient but that slowly starts to crack,the more the need grows.Once we have what we need,everything seems good.We feel it flowing through our veins,we feel its effects and we *know* we are a step closer to where we belong.I guess it has become a habit for me to see people *not* so thankful for what they do have (no way saying that he is saying this of course) but with that and just being irritated at the time,i felt a gentle reminder was in order.forgive me if i stepped out of line
Quote from: Jack_M on August 10, 2013, 09:38:55 PM
Your expectations are whacked. Unless you got radical facial surgery you're always going to look like you and be recognised. T doesn't make you unrecognizable! Every video I see on YouTube they still look like themselves, just in a more masculine form. It's especially hard for anyone who was a tomboy pre-transition because then there's not so much of a difference in the way you dress. I get remarks right now near 2 months on T where people say they don't really see much difference because I still dress and act the same, just have a different name. But they're not saying I don't pass, just that they see me as still being the same person (as in personality) and that they're cool with it, almost like this is me being accepted as the real me now.
T can't change the bones of your face. I think you need to talk to a professional about your issues tbh. You have unreal expectations and a warped view of self. This thread says there's no changes when there were tons. It's like an anorexic who looks in a mirror and sees a fat person. It's not healthy!
I've heard other trans guys, maybe on youtube say people didn't recognize them at all, so I figured I was supposed to be unrecognizable too. I mean, I've seen a few guys that were unrecognizable and some that looked the same just more masculine.
Quote from: Chaos on August 12, 2013, 08:37:45 AM
[I'm sorry your not on T yet. I hope you are able to get it soon. Are you anywhere near to getting on it?
No but im working as hard as i can and spending almost ALL my time on the phone.im currently having issues with insurance and plus i live in a place that is limited on resources but they are only offered to certain types of people (good money,good insurance,certain locations) and its proving to be a huge challenge.But i will or ill die trying (mixed feelings on that one meh)
I hope your able to get it. Can you pay out of pocket for your T? I did that for a year with no job. I was lucky I had money saved. Plus, my grandfather gave me $20 a week b/c I had no income...and over 2 years later I still have no income, lol. Friday will be only 3 days pay for a temp job I had.
Quote from: Jack_M on August 11, 2013, 06:19:05 PM
Opposite gender twin! Perfect! I'm so nicking that. :P
I guess if you look at John and Joan Cussak that's a good comparison too. Like John would be the result if Joan was on our journey because they look VERY much alike! Lol. I know I'm going to look like my brother. My dad would sometimes mix us up in photos pre-T, unless height was obvious because my brother is 6'4"!!!
And yeah, Jay, definitely seems like we're in the same place. Some have remarked that somehow they expected more to change but now they think about it they realise there wasn't much to change and this has always been me. So all they know to expect now is voice and facial hair changes.
And yeah, we are who we are, I don't want to lose who I am to become the real me, I just want myself and the world to see the true me on the outside. Not a new person; the true ME!
I think Joan and John look different. I don't see where they look like twins, I guess that's just me though.
I don't know why you'd WANT to be unrecognizable. I think there would be a feeling of unconnectedness. But anyway as long as you look male, I don't know why you have such a strong feeling about that. I'm sure all the people on youtube DON'T say this. Go look at the 1 year shots. Interesting how some people do not change that much. The difference between a male and female face *are* subtle.
As for people saying other people don't recognize them. I think perhaps it's because other people might not imagine what someone would look like as male. I have never met anybody I would consider unrecognizable. I've seen lots of transitions.
I am passing at least half the time. If you look at my icon you can see someone who is NOT at built up in terms of muscles. I am 5'1" and 120 lbs. I am also totally not hairy, though I do have a bit of facial hair.
I really think you have dysphoria and you need to talk to a therapist. What it seems like you do here is you take what people say and find the most negative stuff anyone has said (which isn't too negative) and build it up and twist it around to make it the most negative thing imaginable. Then you don't do the things that might make you look more male. Not criticizing that, except that you come here and bitterly complain how you have no changes which is clearly untrue. Heck what you really want to do is pass wouldn't all other things come secondary including somethings like personal style? If you dont' want to fine. I like guys with long hair, but you know if you liked dresses and dangly earrings (to use an extreme) and then said this is you this is who you want to be. THat's cool. But then you can't actually complain about not passing. That's extreme but cismen who are 5' with long hair won't pass all the time. They will get misgendered. So either you need to learn to laugh it off or you need to change your style a bit.
BTW, you also take stuff that might mean nothing, like someone calling you hun or dear. Funny thing yesterday, I got called dear and (presumably) cisman in back of me did not. So here are possible interpretations:
1. She misgendered me.
2. She not only misgendered me but felt sorry for me due to my shadow of a mustache.
3. She treated me as an older person (either gender). BTW, I don't like my age that much either. Sucks huh?
4. She thought I was "dear" and cute and he was not. :)
This is a VERY good exercise.
--Jay
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 14, 2013, 11:57:11 AM
I've heard other trans guys, maybe on youtube say people didn't recognize them at all, so I figured I was supposed to be unrecognizable too. I mean, I've seen a few guys that were unrecognizable and some that looked the same just more masculine.
I think Joan and John look different. I don't see where they look like twins, I guess that's just me though.
T is going to work in different ways for everybody. There's no rule that says you have to be unrecognisable to people. More often than not you're passing, and you don't look remotely female from what everyone's seen in your pictures and videos. You need to focus on what's right in front of you rather than what expectations you have based upon hearsay and a couple of anecdotes, because it's not going to get you anywhere, and it's definitely not going to make you happy.
I don't prescribe to the American stereotype of running to therapists as soon as something goes wrong -- actually, I run as far in the opposite direction as possible most of the time -- or going soul searching, but in this case I really do think that you've got some stuff to work through because you're only making yourself miserable for no reason. Complaining about things isn't going to get you anywhere, you've identified things you have issues with, now what are you going to do about them? Are they legitimate problems or are they just things you think should be problems?
Quote from: aleon515 on August 14, 2013, 12:26:34 PM
1. She misgendered me.
2. She not only misgendered me but felt sorry for me due to my shadow of a mustache.
3. She treated me as an older person (either gender). BTW, I don't like my age that much either. Sucks huh?
4. She thought I was "dear" and cute and he was not. :)
This is a VERY good exercise.
--Jay
These are also very common and loving terms.I get called *babe,hun,hunny,love,baby (erm thats more of an emotional term but yeah)* they are in no way to do with a gender but either 1) a habit for the person or 2) an affection based reaction.So this was a very good thing in my opinion :D and even if it was a misgendered comment,it was still very high respect then being rude with pronouns and so on.And i agree otherwise
Quote from: Dominick_81 on August 14, 2013, 11:57:11 AM
I hope your able to get it. Can you pay out of pocket for your T? I did that for a year with no job. I was lucky I had money saved. Plus, my grandfather gave me $20 a week b/c I had no income...and over 2 years later I still have no income, lol. Friday will be only 3 days pay for a temp job I had.
I will in time and thank you.I can pay out of pocket but its only starting therapy that is proving hard.But i didnt expect it to happen over night either lol btw i am sorry if i sounded snappy at the time,though i didnt mean to come off that way.You could always seek to have your dose upped but i do echo a few of the other comments.Be yourself in every way and let nature take its course.I love seeing the switchs and changes,how we become our true self.I saw a picture of one woman who was very beautiful but she had plastic surgery on her cheek bones and face and it was sooo bad *_* the outcome was 100% worse then if she had let nature take over and all i could do was say *what a shame* she passed 100% before hand but the point is,it may be slow,it may be fast,it may be small or large but in the end-we reach that goal
Ah, can't see your before and after photos? Or is it just me?
Quote from: Chaos on August 14, 2013, 07:58:06 PM
These are also very common and loving terms.I get called *babe,hun,hunny,love,baby (erm thats more of an emotional term but yeah)* they are in no way to do with a gender but either 1) a habit for the person or 2) an affection based reaction.So this was a very good thing in my opinion :D and even if it was a misgendered comment,it was still very high respect then being rude with pronouns and so on.And i agree otherwise
It was definitely not rude. I am bothered by misgendering. But I thought this was useful for our friend here to see that it was not necessarily even misgendering.
I had another option: She tries to use different greetings to keep herself interested. :)
--Jay
Quote from: Chaos on August 14, 2013, 08:07:11 PM
I will in time and thank you.I can pay out of pocket but its only starting therapy that is proving hard.But i didnt expect it to happen over night either lol btw i am sorry if i sounded snappy at the time,though i didnt mean to come off that way.You could always seek to have your dose upped but i do echo a few of the other comments.Be yourself in every way and let nature take its course.I love seeing the switchs and changes,how we become our true self.I saw a picture of one woman who was very beautiful but she had plastic surgery on her cheek bones and face and it was sooo bad *_* the outcome was 100% worse then if she had let nature take over and all i could do was say *what a shame* she passed 100% before hand but the point is,it may be slow,it may be fast,it may be small or large but in the end-we reach that goal
You don't have the money for therapy? Will insurance cover therapy?
I just got my dosage upped. So in about another week and a half before my next shot I have to have blood work done to see where my levels are.
Quote from: FlyingJ on August 14, 2013, 08:10:30 PM
Ah, can't see your before and after photos? Or is it just me?
Sorry, I took the pics down.
I just shaved b/c my facial hair just looks really bad. I can't grow anything thick or full and it just looks terrible. I think I pass less clean shaven. I hate shaving b/c of that. I'm so afraid now I'm not gonna pass clean shaven... unless I get a really short haircut and I really don't want to do that.
Quote from: AlexanderC on August 14, 2013, 12:43:34 PM
T is going to work in different ways for everybody. There's no rule that says you have to be unrecognisable to people. More often than not you're passing, and you don't look remotely female from what everyone's seen in your pictures and videos.
I know, but I see guys that are unrecognizable on youtube. I mean, they really had some major changes.
In my pics and videos I had facial hair. Without my facial hair, I think it's going to be very hard for me to pass, unless I cut my hair very short again. And I've waited 8 months or more to get my hair this long again. I really don't want to cut it right now. Though, I do need a trim badly so it will be cut a little bit shorter soon.
Quote from: aleon515 on August 14, 2013, 12:26:34 PM
I don't know why you'd WANT to be unrecognizable. I think there would be a feeling of unconnectedness. But anyway as long as you look male, I don't know why you have such a strong feeling about that. I'm sure all the people on youtube DON'T say this. Go look at the 1 year shots. Interesting how some people do not change that much. The difference between a male and female face *are* subtle.
As for people saying other people don't recognize them. I think perhaps it's because other people might not imagine what someone would look like as male. I have never met anybody I would consider unrecognizable. I've seen lots of transitions.
I am passing at least half the time. If you look at my icon you can see someone who is NOT at built up in terms of muscles. I am 5'1" and 120 lbs. I am also totally not hairy, though I do have a bit of facial hair.
I really think you have dysphoria and you need to talk to a therapist. What it seems like you do here is you take what people say and find the most negative stuff anyone has said (which isn't too negative) and build it up and twist it around to make it the most negative thing imaginable. Then you don't do the things that might make you look more male. Not criticizing that, except that you come here and bitterly complain how you have no changes which is clearly untrue. Heck what you really want to do is pass wouldn't all other things come secondary including somethings like personal style? If you dont' want to fine. I like guys with long hair, but you know if you liked dresses and dangly earrings (to use an extreme) and then said this is you this is who you want to be. THat's cool. But then you can't actually complain about not passing. That's extreme but cismen who are 5' with long hair won't pass all the time. They will get misgendered. So either you need to learn to laugh it off or you need to change your style a bit.
BTW, you also take stuff that might mean nothing, like someone calling you hun or dear. Funny thing yesterday, I got called dear and (presumably) cisman in back of me did not. So here are possible interpretations:
1. She misgendered me.
2. She not only misgendered me but felt sorry for me due to my shadow of a mustache.
3. She treated me as an older person (either gender). BTW, I don't like my age that much either. Sucks huh?
4. She thought I was "dear" and cute and he was not. :)
This is a VERY good exercise.
--Jay
I thought I was supposed to be unrecognizable...? Everyone I've seen on youtube or maybe on here too, have said people haven't recognized them or they look really different. I'm just going by what I've seen on youtube and most all have had major changes to where they look very different.
You look 100% male to me in your icon. It's a small pic, but from what I can see you look totally male.
I do talk to a counselor. She knows how I feel. She says I look male and agrees that the facial hair does masculines me more. I can't remember what else she said, but basically stuff you guys are saying to me.
They reason why I say I have no changes is b/c I've been told by some of my cousins and other people that I look the same as I did pre-T. I don't think I've had any major changes. I see some changes, but nothing major. I can see weight gain changes, and my face is fuller. I'm not sure about body structure...? I know I have beefed up on T though. Hopefully built more like a guy. I don't know, I guess I'm excepting to have major changes like other guys I've seen on youtube. And I'm still extremely disappointed with my voice. It didn't drop much at all. I sound like a young teenage boy. I want my voice to sound completely male and I want to be able to pass over the phone.
Being called Dear doesn't bother you? I mean, it wouldn't bother me unless I knew the person was seeing me as male. But when terms like that are being used, I have no idea if that person saw me as male or female and it makes me question how other people in public are seeing me. Ya know what I mean?
>I thought I was supposed to be unrecognizable...? Everyone I've seen on youtube or maybe on here too, have said people haven't recognized them or they look really different. I'm just going by what I've seen on youtube and most all have had major changes to where they look very different.
You apparently aren't following quite the same people I am on youtube apparently. The guy everyone starts with "skylarkeleven"-- though i think he was pretty male looking before certainly didn't change completely at all. OTOH, he also aged about 4 years. Aging and T together can do stuff. But I think few people are "unrecognizable". Take a look at him and owenthegenderboy; Ro Walker Mills; upperCaseChase; videokidsam; JackGr8ndmpire; or and astrog8tr (he's not bad either) for some good channels and also people who clearly look very similar..
>You look 100% male to me in your icon. It's a small pic, but from what I can see you look totally male.
The picture is small but pretty good. You can't see the mustache shadow in it though.
See your doing the same thing with me though. I obviously DO look very male. I also factually do NOT pass 100% of the time. So what are they reading. I have no idea.
>I do talk to a counselor. She knows how I feel. She says I look male and agrees that the facial hair does masculines me more. I can't remember what else she said, but basically stuff you guys are saying to me.
Hmm sounds like a wise individual. YOu should listen to her. ;)
>They reason why I say I have no changes is b/c I've been told by some of my cousins and other people that I look the same as I did pre-T. I don't think I've had any major changes. I see some changes, but nothing major. I can see weight gain changes, and my face is fuller. I'm not sure about body structure...? I know I have beefed up on T though. Hopefully built more like a guy. I don't know, I guess I'm excepting to have major changes like other guys I've seen on youtube. And I'm still extremely disappointed with my voice. It didn't drop much at all. I sound like a young teenage boy. I want my voice to sound completely male and I want to be able to pass over the phone.
You're letting them bother you where they are actually yanking your chain. Adolescence is rarely the same for everyone so that some guys take longer for their larynx to grow fully. There are some exercises (which I suggest you use with caution) to lower your voice. I am pretty sure they work. YOu also might listen to male patterns and so on.
>Being called Dear doesn't bother you? I mean, it wouldn't bother me unless I knew the person was seeing me as male. But when terms like that are being used, I have no idea if that person saw me as male or female and it makes me question how other people in public are seeing me. Ya know what I mean?
Well I didn't say it didn't. I said that there are ways to rephrase it in your mind. They may be tricks. But still I think you have a very negative view of things so it might help your brain to practice other ways of viewing the world.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on August 15, 2013, 11:24:25 PM
>I thought I was supposed to be unrecognizable...? Everyone I've seen on youtube or maybe on here too, have said people haven't recognized them or they look really different. I'm just going by what I've seen on youtube and most all have had major changes to where they look very different.
You apparently aren't following quite the same people I am on youtube apparently. The guy everyone starts with "skylarkeleven"-- though i think he was pretty male looking before certainly didn't change completely at all. OTOH, he also aged about 4 years. Aging and T together can do stuff. But I think few people are "unrecognizable". Take a look at him and owenthegenderboy; Ro Walker Mills; upperCaseChase; videokidsam; JackGr8ndmpire; or and astrog8tr (he's not bad either) for some good channels and also people who clearly look very similar..
>You look 100% male to me in your icon. It's a small pic, but from what I can see you look totally male.
The picture is small but pretty good. You can't see the mustache shadow in it though.
See your doing the same thing with me though. I obviously DO look very male. I also factually do NOT pass 100% of the time. So what are they reading. I have no idea.
>I do talk to a counselor. She knows how I feel. She says I look male and agrees that the facial hair does masculines me more. I can't remember what else she said, but basically stuff you guys are saying to me.
Hmm sounds like a wise individual. YOu should listen to her. ;)
>They reason why I say I have no changes is b/c I've been told by some of my cousins and other people that I look the same as I did pre-T. I don't think I've had any major changes. I see some changes, but nothing major. I can see weight gain changes, and my face is fuller. I'm not sure about body structure...? I know I have beefed up on T though. Hopefully built more like a guy. I don't know, I guess I'm excepting to have major changes like other guys I've seen on youtube. And I'm still extremely disappointed with my voice. It didn't drop much at all. I sound like a young teenage boy. I want my voice to sound completely male and I want to be able to pass over the phone.
You're letting them bother you where they are actually yanking your chain. Adolescence is rarely the same for everyone so that some guys take longer for their larynx to grow fully. There are some exercises (which I suggest you use with caution) to lower your voice. I am pretty sure they work. YOu also might listen to male patterns and so on.
>Being called Dear doesn't bother you? I mean, it wouldn't bother me unless I knew the person was seeing me as male. But when terms like that are being used, I have no idea if that person saw me as male or female and it makes me question how other people in public are seeing me. Ya know what I mean?
Well I didn't say it didn't. I said that there are ways to rephrase it in your mind. They may be tricks. But still I think you have a very negative view of things so it might help your brain to practice other ways of viewing the world.
--Jay
Thanks for some of the youtube names. I just checked them out. A couple are recognizable. I know who skylarkeleven is. I've seen his channel. There are only a couple like him I've seen, but others look really different and had some major changes. I guess I'm just waiting for that facial hair to grow in thicker and better. I think that might help me, along with getting a shorter haircut.
That's weird you don't pass 100% as male. It's hard to judge the pic b/c it's really small, but from that icon I'm reading you as male b/c of the short hair, clothes, and body type.
"Well I didn't say it didn't. I said that there are ways to rephrase it in your mind. They may be tricks. But still I think you have a very negative view of things so it might help your brain to practice other ways of viewing the world." I see.
Yo!
Another thing you should think about is the way facial hair can really change the way a person looks. Ive known guys who've had staches all their lives but look totally different clean shaven and such. No word of a lie I actually didn't recognize a friend of many years point blank when we first made contact after he shaved his beard he had since I met him.
I know not all trans men have facial hair but I am just saying I saw a "bigger" transformation in men who gained facial hair when really their actual features might not have changed at all.
Some examples:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2Fznnasj.jpg&hash=5abcc069f4e22c25bfaf825843016d1a733981e8)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2Fmi2p07.jpg&hash=605e3ebe8430e15678617999f2a22b376ee1201f)
Lastly. IMO I think it depends on your feature before taking T. Ive had people that I havent seen for more then 5+ years recognize me from grade school . Through the years no matter how much my style/hair/weight changed i still looked recognizable and my base features havent changed.
Don't believe the hype those people are telling you about not seing any changes in you. They are just there to bring you down man.
I've had experiences with people who tell me that I look completely different (and one colleague clearly didn't recognize me at all when we ran into each other in the toilet) and others who tell me that I look the same, except with facial hair. I've looked at my video footage from four years ago, and holy Ned I have changed. But I still look like me.
All of my IRL friends who started transition while I have known them are completely recognizable as themselves. They just look quite a bit more male.
My best friend says that my voice hasn't changed. I am a baritone now. I guess he just recognizes the inherent Arch-ness in the way I speak. And the men in my men's group never noticed a thing when I went from tenor to baritone or light baritone to much deeper baritone. So that was kind of weird.
I remember seeing a clip of you a while back, Dominick. Your voice wasn't super deep, but what struck me was your way of speaking. I talked to a guy on the phone the other day who has a higher voice than you did then--but he spoke with total confidence, so I didn't doubt his maleness. I know that you aren't comfortable in front of the camera--so you come across as unsure of yourself--but I suspect that you project the same way IRL. If you really really want to "pass" over the phone, you might study and implement typical male inflections and speech patterns. It might not help, but it certainly can't hurt. If you have already done that, I don't know what to tell you. It's very disruptive to pass in person but not over the phone. That happened to me for only a short time, but it really did a number on me and made me unsure of myself.
Yeah it's uncomfortable (not to pass on the phone). I think it's just starting for me, but it has been quite a few months between passing IRL and over the phone.
--Jay
Quote from: aleon515 on August 17, 2013, 09:06:13 PM
Yeah it's uncomfortable (not to pass on the phone). I think it's just starting for me, but it has been quite a few months between passing IRL and over the phone.
--Jay
I'm 1.5 years on T and I pass about 100% in person and about 25-50% on the phone. Oddly enough, I don't take it as bad as when it happens IRL. Go figure.
Quote from: Darrin Scott on August 18, 2013, 10:29:49 AM
I'm 1.5 years on T and I pass about 100% in person and about 25-50% on the phone. Oddly enough, I don't take it as bad as when it happens IRL. Go figure.
I don't either. It doesn't feel so personal. I think my range is 50%+ in person, and it's probably not really pass maybe like they don't know about 10% on the phone. I've never been sirred. My voice fluxuates so that the longer I talk with someone I think the more problematic. Might actually be why I was misgendered a few days ago. She initially didn't know and then I talked longer.
--Jay
When I was a kid, I noticed that my father sort of barked over the phone and my mother put on her telephone voice. I'm not saying that you guys do the same thing as my mother, at least not to the same extent, but maybe some of you are unconsciously falling into old patterns on the phone. Or maybe it's that the same patterns, when people cannot see how masculine you look, tend to make them misgender you.
I was at a workshop a couple of weeks ago, and one of the attendees was on the phone during one of our breaks. She was calling her insurance company or something--it wasn't a personal call. And when the person on the other end must have asked her for her name, my colleague responded as if she were asking a question rather than answering it: "Smith? Sally Smith?"
This pattern, and others like it, are so unconscious that we don't realize that we do it. I was paying attention only because I am trans and like to keep track of gendered speech patterns. I know that women are more likely to raise their voices in this way. But, to be honest, I don't know whether men usually do it when asked their name--I know that my ex used to, but not as noticeably as this woman did. And he was a soft-spoken guy who was misgendered in front of me a few times.
I also know that I do not do it.
Perhaps I should listen in on more phone conversations.
Answering the phone with "this is he" with emphasis for people you don't know, or when you call in somewhere for whatever reason start with your male name, as in "Hi, this is _____ and I'm calling about..." could help
Quote from: spacerace on August 18, 2013, 02:40:56 PM
Answering the phone with "this is he" with emphasis for people you don't know, or when you call in somewhere for whatever reason start with your male name, as in "Hi, this is _____ and I'm calling about..." could help
I only say, "this is he" if they ask for Darrin. I think part of this phone stuff too is once you have a legal name change (I have) then they correct themselves real quick after they see that your name is male.
Quote from: thatboyfresh on August 17, 2013, 12:28:43 AM
Yo!
Another thing you should think about is the way facial hair can really change the way a person looks. Ive known guys who've had staches all their lives but look totally different clean shaven and such. No word of a lie I actually didn't recognize a friend of many years point blank when we first made contact after he shaved his beard he had since I met him.
I know not all trans men have facial hair but I am just saying I saw a "bigger" transformation in men who gained facial hair when really their actual features might not have changed at all.
Some examples:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2Fznnasj.jpg&hash=5abcc069f4e22c25bfaf825843016d1a733981e8)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi43.tinypic.com%2Fmi2p07.jpg&hash=605e3ebe8430e15678617999f2a22b376ee1201f)
Lastly. IMO I think it depends on your feature before taking T. Ive had people that I havent seen for more then 5+ years recognize me from grade school . Through the years no matter how much my style/hair/weight changed i still looked recognizable and my base features havent changed.
Don't believe the hype those people are telling you about not seing any changes in you. They are just there to bring you down man.
Yeah, I can see how facial hair can masculines you a lot. Wish my facial hair would fill in and grow thicker soon so I could keep it instead of shaving every month to 2 months.
Quote from: Arch on August 17, 2013, 01:52:17 AM
I've had experiences with people who tell me that I look completely different (and one colleague clearly didn't recognize me at all when we ran into each other in the toilet) and others who tell me that I look the same, except with facial hair. I've looked at my video footage from four years ago, and holy Ned I have changed. But I still look like me.
All of my IRL friends who started transition while I have known them are completely recognizable as themselves. They just look quite a bit more male.
My best friend says that my voice hasn't changed. I am a baritone now. I guess he just recognizes the inherent Arch-ness in the way I speak. And the men in my men's group never noticed a thing when I went from tenor to baritone or light baritone to much deeper baritone. So that was kind of weird.
I remember seeing a clip of you a while back, Dominick. Your voice wasn't super deep, but what struck me was your way of speaking. I talked to a guy on the phone the other day who has a higher voice than you did then--but he spoke with total confidence, so I didn't doubt his maleness. I know that you aren't comfortable in front of the camera--so you come across as unsure of yourself--but I suspect that you project the same way IRL. If you really really want to "pass" over the phone, you might study and implement typical male inflections and speech patterns. It might not help, but it certainly can't hurt. If you have already done that, I don't know what to tell you. It's very disruptive to pass in person but not over the phone. That happened to me for only a short time, but it really did a number on me and made me unsure of myself.
Yeah, it really depends of the person I guess. Some think you look the same and other think you look the same but just more masculine.
I did recently pass over the phone for the second time b/c I deepened my voice. I know when I talk on the phone my voice does get higher b/c I try to sound very polite on the phone. I usually start off (depending on who I'm calling) by saying, "Hi, this is Dominick calling" so that way they can't mis-gender me.
FWIW I have been on T for 5 years and I still get ma'am on the phone sometimes. I just say, it's SIR, and they apologize. Annoying, but happens to cis guys and girls as well.
Quote from: sneakersjay on August 18, 2013, 08:09:32 PM
FWIW I have been on T for 5 years and I still get ma'am on the phone sometimes. I just say, it's SIR, and they apologize. Annoying, but happens to cis guys and girls as well.
That sucks! I'm sorry you still get ma'am sometimes on the phone after 5 years on T.