I'm wondering what I can expect in my hip area, I've seen a lot of mixed information. It's just odd to me that I can have 39-40 inch hips in circumference with a 31 inch waist, but still look like I have a totally male lower section. My chest is only 32-33 inches in circumference where underbust would be if I had a bust. :P Yet when I look in the mirror my hips/pelvic area look super tiny in comparison (only maybe an inch or 2 wider from the frontal view.)
Whatcha guys think? This concern is more vain than anything.
Your hip circumference takes into account the size of your butt. That's the key issue.
Yeah, I know. Even my butt looks small from a side view xD
Well, either you have wrong notions of what is a big or small butt/hips/waist/ribcage/shoulders, either you mismeasure. Honestly I can't tell you much else. The measuring tape says what it says. If you can, find yourself some comparison values for both circumferences and widths and see how you differ. If your circumference is average but your width is below, then the difference must be in the other dimension.
Stop measuring from the iliac crest and start measuring from the around the greater trochanter.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.ning.com%2Ffiles%2FRfuIiQ1ilzqxI06LU0g16mnVR7EqsdZollxyIS-y4tM7S1utr1sOnj70kSSSXpjVfnGYOh%2AyxbV0SmVzowU8xxedB-eBG2Na%2Fsacrum_pelvis.jpg&hash=e24ee89fa66c1e8f8e50da63ff93767a9be1c072)
Your butt & thighs will grow around from there. That iliac crest isn't going to pick up a whole lot right away unless the J-Lo fairy visits you one night. ;)
Quote from: Christine167 on September 08, 2013, 06:38:36 PM
Stop measuring from the iliac crest and start measuring from the around the greater trochanter.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fapi.ning.com%2Ffiles%2FRfuIiQ1ilzqxI06LU0g16mnVR7EqsdZollxyIS-y4tM7S1utr1sOnj70kSSSXpjVfnGYOh%2AyxbV0SmVzowU8xxedB-eBG2Na%2Fsacrum_pelvis.jpg&hash=e24ee89fa66c1e8f8e50da63ff93767a9be1c072)
Your butt & thighs will grow around from there. That iliac crest isn't going to pick up a whole lot right away unless the J-Lo fairy visits you one night. ;)
I measure directly where my literal hip bone pops out. The literal corner of that leg bone. :P
Anyhoo, I uploaded 2 pics that do only show the Iliac crest, but I'm saving the lower body nudity. Call me crazy! But I think I'm doing something wrong.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/101065369@N05/9706367434/in/photostream/
I have since privatized these photos, I'll post them up in private if requested via PM.
In that case I'm sorry that I doubted you and I don't think that you are doing anything wrong.
I was an x-ray tech for 6 and half years and just looking at your hips they do have a bit more volume than your chest. So that could be where you are seeing the extra inches.
I suggested that you might measuring wrong because my students used to do it all the time and have to repeat their bladder films. That said enjoy and maybe do some butt workout to enhance it girl. The rest of you will eventually catch up and then you'll be a little hottie.
Quote from: Christine167 on September 08, 2013, 06:50:11 PM
In that case I'm sorry that I doubted you and I don't think that you are doing anything wrong.
I was an x-ray tech for 6 and half years and just looking at your hips they do have a bit more volume than your chest. So that could be where you are seeing the extra inches.
I suggested that you might measuring wrong because my students used to do it all the time and have to repeat their bladder films. That said enjoy and maybe do some butt workout to enhance it girl. The rest of you will eventually catch up and then you'll be a little hottie.
A little near 6 foot tall hottie, maybe. xD
Basically, the thing is to measure the hips at their widest point, wherever it is, no?
Also, I'm curious. Having a relatively smooth curve or literally a strong crease between the top and bottom width maximums of the widths... is this affected by something else than fat? Do cis women's hipbones have a difference compared to cis men's in that regard?
PS: Awesomely clean room, haha.
Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 08, 2013, 06:53:14 PM
A little near 6 foot tall hottie, maybe. xD
A lot of guys like tall women. I'm counting on it too at my 6'2" self.
Now if I could just get the shoe companies to make more women's size 13s....
Quote from: A on September 08, 2013, 07:00:18 PM
1. Basically, the thing is to measure the hips at their widest point, wherever it is, no?
2. Also, I'm curious. Having a relatively smooth curve or literally a strong crease between the top and bottom width maximums of the widths... is this affected by something else than fat? Do cis women's hipbones have a difference compared to cis men's in that regard?
Answer to 1- Yes o are right for clothing fit of pants butt the topic is on hip area changes and those tend to start down low and move their way up as it were. ;) pun intended
Answer to 2- It's all about the abdominal cavity. Sierra just happens to be bless with a tiny one. However you can shrink it a bit with exercise to a point. Extra muscle just compresses it even when at rest. Extra muscle on the butt just expands the butt.
Quote from: A on September 08, 2013, 07:00:18 PM
Basically, the thing is to measure the hips at their widest point, wherever it is, no?
Also, I'm curious. Having a relatively smooth curve or literally a strong crease between the top and bottom width maximums of the widths... is this affected by something else than fat? Do cis women's hipbones have a difference compared to cis men's in that regard?
PS: Awesomely clean room, haha.
I share it with my 12 year old (boy) cousin right now. Probably the only reason I'm holding back on being totally "feminine." I spent a couple months in Hayward and for the entire time I was there I trained my voice, so that's pretty much the only thing feminine about me aside from my hormone levels at the moment. They definitely noticed, I had my sister's boyfriend thinking I had a girl in my room. Lol.
Also, all that crap, bed and the closet I let him use for his own are pretty much his territory, I got tired of cleaning it all up.
Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 08, 2013, 07:09:00 PM
I share it with my 12 year old (boy) cousin right now. Probably the only reason I'm holding back on being totally "feminine." I spent a couple months in Hayward and for the entire time I was there I trained my voice, so that's pretty much the only thing feminine about me aside from my hormone levels at the moment. They definitely noticed, I had my sister's boyfriend thinking I had a girl in my room. Lol.
Also, all that crap, bed and the closet I let him use for his own are pretty much his territory, I got tired of cleaning it all up.
Congrats on the voice. :) I just really got started after attending some classes on it myself. I've got a long way to go but it's getting easier everyday.
Quote from: Christine167 on September 08, 2013, 07:12:36 PM
Congrats on the voice. :) I just really got started after attending some classes on it myself. I've got a long way to go but it's getting easier everyday.
I don't know if you've looked in to it, but I literally went to one site and it gave me all the tips I needed, I literally had a perfectly passable voice the very first day. (thought VERY scratchy at first). Frequent breaks were totally REQUIRED.
http://www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/voice.htm
If I knew how to send Audio through here, I would send the first thing I used as my beginning benchmark.
Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 08, 2013, 07:16:37 PM
I don't know if you've looked in to it, but I literally went to one site and it gave me all the tips I needed, I literally had a perfectly passable voice the very first day. (thought VERY scratchy at first). Frequent breaks were totally REQUIRED.
http://www.looking-glass.greenend.org.uk/voice.htm
If I knew how to send Audio through here, I would send the first thing I used as my beginning benchmark.
Nice. Thanks I just added it to my collection of training materials. I'm looking into Kathe Perez's 30 day challenge as well. I attended one of her classes at SCC and she was really good.
Quote from: Christine167 on September 08, 2013, 07:20:04 PM
Nice. Thanks I just added it to my collection of training materials. I'm looking into Kathe Perez's 30 day challenge as well. I attended one of her classes at SCC and she was really good.
I didn't put much more effort in finding other vocal exercises, I might look in to something a couple months down the road to maybe perfect some imperfections but I feel like that site really did it for me as far as getting the basics down. I'm still trying to work on the "sing songiness." I'm slowly getting in more pitch and less monotone the more I fixate on it. I've pretty much gotten rid of monotony in my voice.
Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 08, 2013, 07:29:46 PM
I didn't put much more effort in finding other vocal exercises, I might look in to something a couple months down the road to maybe perfect some imperfections but I feel like that site really did it for me as far as getting the basics down. I'm still trying to work on the "sing songiness." I'm slowly getting in more pitch and less monotone the more I fixate on it. I've pretty much gotten rid of monotony in my voice.
Nice.
I agree that one can get it down well but I feel that I will need a maintenance plan of sorts so I am branching out. Plus I find that different instructors have different ways of teaching which keeps it fresh. Hopefully eventually I won't need to stay so focused on it but time will tell. ;)
Quote from: Christine167 on September 08, 2013, 07:53:18 PM
Nice.
I agree that one can get it down well but I feel that I will need a maintenance plan of sorts so I am branching out. Plus I find that different instructors have different ways of teaching which keeps it fresh. Hopefully eventually I won't need to stay so focused on it but time will tell. ;)
Yeah, it's definitely more safe to do it that way, for all I know I could have damaged my voice having not seen an educated instructor. But eh, I was feeling hopeless so I decided to come out to online communities as a girl. Was pleasantly surprised I passed, so it did me good at least and I do like what I have so far. A little loss for a big gain was enough for me, now I have no idea how to get my male voice back it's become so natural.
Haha, if it makes you feel better, I got my female voice by not allowing my voice to change at puberty. With coughs and weird sounds and violent throat clearings and... well it bled a little sometimes. If anyone's damaged her voice, it's me. Though in exchange I have no male voice that I know of, and I never had to endure the agony of hearing a man when I speak. So yeah, I don't regret it.
How do you not allow it to change at puberty without meds? I'm way past that time, but just curious...
When I began transition I could wear size 0 women's slacks, specifically Mudd brand size zero jeans. Now about 14 years later, having been on hormones for like 11 years, having had SRS in 2004 I weigh the same as I did when I first began and I wear size 9-12 jeans. But I wear low-rise and always have since those first Mudd size 0 jeans.
Wait what? That's such a huge difference! I mean, size 0 is like "very thin little teenager" and size 12 is like my mother, who's visibly overweight. o.o
smile_jma: Uhm, I didn't have a precise technique. I just kept on trying hard to speak and sing with what I judged was an acceptable voice, and when it didn't work, I cleared my throat and coughed until it did. Things like that. It's pretty distant. I'm not so sure how I did it myself.
Well now the hips its definately one of the most unpredicatble areas when it comes to HRT. For me I gained quite some hip bone growth which was nice, but not much fat to my bum so yea. In genral youll just get fat your ass but hey you never know. No one can predict your future :D
I found a rather depressing (for me) website the other day describing hip differences:
http://www.secondtype.info/skeleton.htm
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.secondtype.info%2Fdiags%2Fpelvis5.jpg&hash=149e6f073687ec54a5ee385b7752196765b57bc2)
Seems some of us are doomed to have genetically thin hips. Years of HRT has not produced girly hips for me. ??? There's a bunch more padding there but it's in different areas and not filling out like I want it to.
Quote from: Christine Eryn on September 12, 2013, 03:39:48 PM
I found a rather depressing (for me) website the other day describing hip differences:
http://www.secondtype.info/skeleton.htm
Seems some of us are doomed to have genetically thin hips. Years of HRT has not produced girly hips for me. ??? There's a bunch more padding there but it's in different areas and not filling out like I want it to.
To be fair, there's a HUGE degree of misinformation on the site. Like the 2D to 4D ratio thing - they claim that a straight line drawn atop an extended hand can differentiate birth sex with high accuracy. To get an accurate measurement, the fingers need to be measured from the individual base (where the finger meets the palm, some claim at the lowest point, others say the average). Even then, the outcome is highly variable among the sexes.
Having thin hips will only get you clocked if they're combined with other physical tells, like short upper arms or broad shoulders. I've seen cis women with relatively plain hips. People generally don't walk around, measuring others with protractors, so the "internal bone angle" stuff is largely irrelevant.
Quite a bit of that actually made me feel pretty good about myself and my small form...other sections screamed "anti-trans, feminist bias."
I'm really happy that even though the dose is so low I didn't get noticeable breasts in over a year and a half, my hip bones grew some. They're insufficient to look attractively female when coupled with my upped body, but from trying on jeans that mostly fit but were too tight only at the hips, I can tell that in absolute terms, they're probably female-ish now. And I'm really glad of it.
If I could only get more fat redistribution and have a smaller waist, I think I would probably have a relatively female figure. I'm so looking forward to that. When I went to a wedding and we were shopping for a dress at the thrift store, we had to declare that my block-shaped upper body doesn't work with most dresses. I hope I can wear that kind of stuff one day.
Quote from: A on September 12, 2013, 09:53:35 PM
I'm really happy that even though the dose is so low I didn't get noticeable breasts in over a year and a half, my hip bones grew some. They're insufficient to look attractively female when coupled with my upped body, but from trying on jeans that mostly fit but were too tight only at the hips, I can tell that in absolute terms, they're probably female-ish now. And I'm really glad of it.
If I could only get more fat redistribution and have a smaller waist, I think I would probably have a relatively female figure. I'm so looking forward to that. When I went to a wedding and we were shopping for a dress at the thrift store, we had to declare that my block-shaped upper body doesn't work with most dresses. I hope I can wear that kind of stuff one day.
Try exercising, a thin waist doesn't necessarily come from "fat redistribution" rather, fat may or may not stop accumulating there. The fat that already WAS there will inevitably stay there until you get rid of it. The fat you regain in female zones is newly accumulated under your new hormonal balance, whereas the old fat that you had previously will remain until it is burnt off.
Think of it like a drawing, I guess. With a pencil, you can draw new lines on your drawing, but you can't move them around-they have to be erased.
Quote from: Horizon on September 12, 2013, 09:12:05 PM
To be fair, there's a HUGE degree of misinformation on the site. Like the 2D to 4D ratio thing - they claim that a straight line drawn atop an extended hand can differentiate birth sex with high accuracy. To get an accurate measurement, the fingers need to be measured from the individual base (where the finger meets the palm, some claim at the lowest point, others say the average). Even then, the outcome is highly variable among the sexes.
Having thin hips will only get you clocked if they're combined with other physical tells, like short upper arms or broad shoulders. I've seen cis women with relatively plain hips. People generally don't walk around, measuring others with protractors, so the "internal bone angle" stuff is largely irrelevant.
Quite a bit of that actually made me feel pretty good about myself and my small form...other sections screamed "anti-trans, feminist bias."
Very much this, the pelvic differences I've found aren't THAT widely different between the sexes, it's mainly the angle of the lower pelvi area that seems to have the most impact visually. The upper part, the part most people mistake for the "hip bone" is often found very high in females as well as males, though more commonly in males. Much the same a lot of females ESPECIALLY taller ones have fairly narrow pelvic openings. I'm inclined to believe, though the typical male pelvis is very much different from the females pelvis, that from an outside appearance they make little to no difference in how a person will perceive your gender.
I only say this because, after noticing how manly my sisters hips looked when she had almost NO fat on her body, I realized that most of what we perceive as male hips has to do with the amount of fat/muscle found in the area more so than the actual skeletal size. Now, after she's gotten fat on her body. She has VERY feminine hips.
Quote from: Sierra Belle on September 19, 2013, 03:46:07 PM
Try exercising, a thin waist doesn't necessarily come from "fat redistribution" rather, fat may or may not stop accumulating there. The fat that already WAS there will inevitably stay there until you get rid of it. The fat you regain in female zones is newly accumulated under your new hormonal balance, whereas the old fat that you had previously will remain until it is burnt off.
Think of it like a drawing, I guess. With a pencil, you can draw new lines on your drawing, but you can't move them around-they have to be erased.
Yeah, uhm, that's partly true. Even without exercise, a little bit of fat gets burnt and re-accumulated daily, which does give some redistribution. But it is true that it's MUCH slower than if you properly burn what's there. Though I'm really wondering how I'd end up if I did exercise, since I'm not overweight.
Mostly if I think of myself with breasts, I tend to hope that when they finally feel like growing, if I keep the same weight, if I remove breast fat from my belly, things would be fine. Sadly I'm pretty sure things are a bit more complicated than that.
Though I shouldn't worry about that right now. I have so much work at school that I'm nearing burn-out. No energy to go exercising.
Very much this, the pelvic differences I've found aren't THAT widely different between the sexes, it's mainly the angle of the lower pelvi area that seems to have the most impact visually. The upper part, the part most people mistake for the "hip bone" is often found very high in females as well as males, though more commonly in males. Much the same a lot of females ESPECIALLY taller ones have fairly narrow pelvic openings. I'm inclined to believe, though the typical male pelvis is very much different from the females pelvis, that from an outside appearance they make little to no difference in how a person will perceive your gender.
I only say this because, after noticing how manly my sisters hips looked when she had almost NO fat on her body, I realized that most of what we perceive as male hips has to do with the amount of fat/muscle found in the area more so than the actual skeletal size. Now, after she's gotten fat on her body. She has VERY feminine hips.
I wonder how much and how the skeletal structure's shape affects fat deposits at the hips. Maybe a male type structure can only store so much fat at the hips no matter what hormones say. Just a thought I had.
Quote from: A on September 19, 2013, 04:09:47 PM
They effect it greatly, but the point is there are women out there with very "masculine" looking hips, yet they aren't considered manly.
Exercise, particularly in the abdomen area tend to have a corset-like effect. Building the muscles in that area will cause that area to kind of tense up naturally which would help to give you a slightly thinner waist. That including building some very difficult muscles on your thighs and around your hip bones can slightly actually widen your hips. (Not the pelvic bones, the literal hips.)
I think the biggest problem, aside from most MtFs having a fairly squarish shaped rib cages, is the waist to hip ratio in part probably caused by the square rib cage. I've heard and seen that core toning can actually give you a fairly decent appearance as far as that goes, building up in your leg/butt area will only accent that.
I feel I got slightly lucky with my rib cage, it's not very wide and it does kinda curve in towards my lower ribs. So my waist to hip ratio is something like .78 to .8 or something. Which I feel isn't so bad.
Yeah, I wish I had that sort of ribcage. It's so huge it actually uncomfortably gets in the way of my arms. But thanks for the info about abdomen exercise. I'll try to find the will to do that in the future.
What are these difficult muscles you're mentioning, on the hips?
As for the thighs... I'm actually hoping that they'll thin up some, so I'll pass on building muscles there. My butt finally shrunk a bit from its muscular black man shape of before, but my thighs are still a bit massive for my tastes. It's probably half muscle, half fat, but well, in my current tired state, hoping that the muscle will shrink is a lot more realistic.
I actually envy those who try to build their lower body. I wish I had that kind of need. It's much harder to shrink things, isn't it? I mean, if I imagine myself doing more leg exercise, the only way I can see them react is to go back to their former muscular "glory". Sigh, maybe one day I'll fit into normal pants more without my oversized thighs and calves getting in the way.
Quote from: A on September 19, 2013, 05:34:14 PM
Yeah, I wish I had that sort of ribcage. It's so huge it actually uncomfortably gets in the way of my arms. But thanks for the info about abdomen exercise. I'll try to find the will to do that in the future.
What are these difficult muscles you're mentioning, on the hips?
As for the thighs... I'm actually hoping that they'll thin up some, so I'll pass on building muscles there. My butt finally shrunk a bit from its muscular black man shape of before, but my thighs are still a bit massive for my tastes. It's probably half muscle, half fat, but well, in my current tired state, hoping that the muscle will shrink is a lot more realistic.
I actually envy those who try to build their lower body. I wish I had that kind of need. It's much harder to shrink things, isn't it? I mean, if I imagine myself doing more leg exercise, the only way I can see them react is to go back to their former muscular "glory". Sigh, maybe one day I'll fit into normal pants more without my oversized thighs and calves getting in the way.
Well, I mean if you're anything like most of us you'll have the gender typical large bone structure, so a lot of it might also be your bones and how the tissue rests on it.
There are specific muscles on the inside of your thighs, toward the pubic area which actually assist in side step movements, so doing things like walking up a treadmill with a slight hill-type grade will strengthen these muscles (referred to as hip abductors) Basically, what they do is pull the hip out of the socket slightly, and are supported by more muscle cause your hips to slightly widen. There was a specific routine I found on a side, but it takes loads of work, consistency, and will to do it. You HAVE to have a routine and follow through.
Whoa, I'd need a drawing or something because it's hard to understand that. I can't understand the physics of muscles in the insides of the thighs pulling hips out or where the muscles are.
Though one thing is sure: I'm gonna have to find something else. Working out for the sake of working out, with machines and weights, I'm just unable to do that. To me it's worse than waiting in a hospital waiting room.
Swimming is probably good, but... I don't think I'll be able to swim for two good years, time for my SRS next summer to heal and for me to find money to get hair removal to a point where it's decent to show myself in a swimsuit. But then again at that point there'll still be a belly problem. Sigh.
I used to be quite 'big'... but lost all of the weight prior to HRT. Now that I'm putting a little back on ( as wanted ), it's going half to my tummy, and half the places I want it. I think this is because my belly still has many more original fat cells compared to my thighs and butt...
Is there anything I can do to get my body to favour putting the fat back in places I want over my tummy? If not, it's not a huge issue. Liposuction can remove the tummy and leave everything else once I get down the road some more :).
Quote from: SamC on September 19, 2013, 08:28:40 PM
I used to be quite 'big'... but lost all of the weight prior to HRT. Now that I'm putting a little back on ( as wanted ), it's going half to my tummy, and half the places I want it. I think this is because my belly still has many more original fat cells compared to my thighs and butt...
Is there anything I can do to get my body to favour putting the fat back in places I want over my tummy? If not, it's not a huge issue. Liposuction can remove the tummy and leave everything else once I get down the road some more :).
Yeah, I think Liposuction will remove much of that fairly permanently? I'm not entirely sure how that actually works. But if I'm not mistaken it will move the fat cells and they will stay in the other places ( if you choose to use them as a filler) and new fatty cells wont accumulate as largely. Not entirely sure.
Yeah, I think it works that way. You take belly fat and put it elsewhere. Then fat should tend to accummulate in the new spots more.
Apart from that, well, if you want to burn belly fat, I guess you can do like Sierra Belle said and do exercise that implies your waist area a lot.