Hello guys and dolls.
What do you think are the ramifications of living with undiagnosed, untreated GID for decades?
And what ramifications continue to exist even after transition?
Nero
The consequences are that I've never grown up because I did not want to assume the identity of a man and couldn't assume the identity of a woman. I never really matured and I would say I've stayed child like. I develloped so many copping mechanisms that everything I did from morning to night was an automated reaction (thus I called myself the zombie); don't think this is solved now. You don't devellop all these things and just chuck them all, they're imbricated into you, they have to be hacked out very slowly and painfully. I can't really live my life as a women if I don't get rid of the layers that have keep me secure all these years. Its frightnening to emerge outside, just me, improvising, without the scripted life and the instant canned answers, I'm afraid of the unknown, even if intellectually I know its good for me. That's why I procrastinate allways. Then, when I do it, its a revelation, why did I wait? Yet, the next day, I'm beneath my 100 pound of security blanket, I've peeled one off, dozens to go.
Misery. Sheer gross unhappiness. So much hiding. It's like every aspect is to camoflage myself as a guy, behave as a guy, look like a guy, sound like a guy. Each with it's quantum of pain. Every action is unconsciously a battle between disguising myself as a guy, and having my femme side wriggle out. Guy roles that I don't quite fit into, but if others don't look too hard, I can pull off. If others see that, and some do, there is an awkwardness. they know something isn't as it should be, but don't know quite what it is. It means most moments of every day are spent at war with myself. It means that I can't really look at my body, in the mirror, without bursting into tears, and never have been able to. It means no one in my life knows these things.
The road out is uncertain, difficult, painful. It does feel like growing up, but there is a sheer panic, as well. My cocoon works for a quiet, safe, apparently successful life.
Ugly.
Tara
Quote from: Keira on June 29, 2007, 01:50:03 AM
The consequences are that I've never grown up because I did not want to assume the identity of a man and couldn't assume the identity of a woman. I never really matured and I would say I've stayed child like. I develloped so many copping mechanisms that everything I did from morning to night was an automated reaction (thus I called myself the zombie); don't think this is solved now. You don't devellop all these things and just chuck them all, they're imbricated into you, they have to be hacked out very slowly and painfully. I can't really live my life as a women if I don't get rid of the layers that have keep me secure all these years. Its frightnening to emerge outside, just me, improvising, without the scripted life and the instant canned answers, I'm afraid of the unknown, even if intellectually I know its good for me. That's why I procrastinate allways. Then, when I do it, its a revelation, why did I wait? Yet, the next day, I'm beneath my 100 pound of security blanket, I've peeled one off, dozens to go.
Wow Keira, that is exactly how i feel! You made my jaw drop. I most definitely need to grow up a bit. I nver really tried to better myself outside of my interests because frankly, I saw no point in nurturing a life that I despised. I tired many things to keep myself happy whih at one point equaled a lot of money and $400 dollar shirts (what was I thinking?!?!). I find life difficult and I have so much growing up to do but I have no idea how to get there.
Charlotte
Every second, of every minute, of every hour, of every day was living misery. I used to be confused, unconfident and depressed. It was all I thought about during the day and what I had nightmares about at night.
Who we are is fundemental to happinness in this life, I never who who I was for 30 odd years.
The ramifications where I had over 20 years of my life effectively trapped in my own prison, because I hadn't a clue why I felt like this. I could have been happier early, found peace in my life, If I had transitioned earlier.
Buffy
Quote from: Nero on June 29, 2007, 01:26:19 AM
Hello guys and dolls.
What do you think are the ramifications of living with undiagnosed, untreated GID for decades?
And what ramifications continue to exist even after transition?
Nero
Like those who wait until their 40 or 50's to transistion, either because they couldn't transistion or were confused about themself with all the pressure about being normal? And the costs in terms of work/career, family, money, etc.
Afterward the ramifications are the lost years spent knowing, that while you had a good life, you missed being who you really are and could have lived. And with the more years there's more socialization to undo when you do transistion, beside the problems with the older and aging body on hrt.
In short, do it while you're young and don't look back. It's a tradeoff between the life you want and the life you have (and could have staying male for all its privileges), but not a hard one when you use your heart and mind to decide what's right.
Now if we can get the medical and insurance communities to understand the benefits of being supportive than being a hinderance.
--Susan--
Quote from: Keira on June 29, 2007, 01:50:03 AM
The consequences are that I've never grown up because I did not want to assume the identity of a man and couldn't assume the identity of a woman. I never really matured and I would say I've stayed child like. I develloped so many copping mechanisms that everything I did from morning to night was an automated reaction (thus I called myself the zombie); don't think this is solved now. You don't devellop all these things and just chuck them all, they're imbricated into you, they have to be hacked out very slowly and painfully. I can't really live my life as a women if I don't get rid of the layers that have keep me secure all these years. Its frightnening to emerge outside, just me, improvising, without the scripted life and the instant canned answers, I'm afraid of the unknown , even if intellectually I know its good for me.That's why I procrastinate allways. Then, when I do it, its a revelation, why did I wait? Yet, the next day, I'm beneath my 100 pound of security blanket, I've peeled one off, dozens to go.
LOL, wow!
Apparently it made Keira psychic too, lol... this is *exactly* how I feel :)
~Kate~
Never having a solid and secure sense of self-identity.
Years and years of chronic and sometimes life-threatening depression and anxiety.
Enough money spent on therapy to have purchased a house, at least in some parts of the country.
Always feeling like an outsider, not fitting in any kind of ordinary way with either women or men.
Acute discomfort with my physical self, self-loathing of my body to the point of not being able to look in the mirror.
Feeling ugly, unacceptable, and just wrong.
Extreme social isolation during huge chunks of my life.
A pervasive sense of having been dropped on the wrong planet, not belonging anywhere.
Extreme and unpleasant self-consciousness of myself in relation to or comparison with other people.
Despite all that, I have managed to have an interesting if often painful life, to raise two amazing kids, and to have survived. Do I wish there'd been a way for me to have dealt with all this much earlier? Absolutely. Why didn't I? I don't know, exactly, and I simply have to trust that for whatever reasons, I wasn't ready, but now I am.
But I'm just past fifty and in good health and expect to have a good long chunk of life left yet, so I'm going for it now, and just having made the decision has resolved so much tension and anxiety and unhappiness in me that my life feels transformed already. The sense of coming into myself is very profound, and very wonderful, and I don't have any doubts that it is the right thing for me.
I don't expect that transitioning will magically make all of my "issues" just go away--there is always continuing work and growth to be done, and I'll continue to do it--and I can't say how I'll feel about it all years hence, but it feels as if a missing and critical piece of the puzzle of myself has finally fallen into place, and I can only think that is, and will be, a good thing.
Hiding it for 10 years was hard enough for me. I can't really imagine doing it again.
I have yet to really even experience life, because I've been in limbo all this time. At the time I thought it was pointless to put any effort into a life I never wanted in the first place. So life kept on going while time stood still for me. All my friends eventually abandoned me because they moved on. I probably became little more than a memory to them.
I always had my guard up, trying not to show my true self to anyone. Even when I was alone I was too afraid someone would find out.
Over time my fear just devoured me, and dominated every aspect my life. I felt like I was powerless to ever make a decision by my own freewill again. I sank deep into a black sea of depression and anxiety, and almost couldn't find the way back.
I honestly don't know how long I'd survive if I chose to go back into hiding, instead of trying to face who I am.
I just wish I had the courage to face myself when I was 15, because that's 10 years I'm never going to get back again. The pain and suffering I went through wasn't worth it, just to pretend that I was normal.
~Marciel
Ramifications:
Social isolation
retarded maturation, I'm only this year becoming a mature human
Self hatred
Wasted years
Wasted potential
awkward socialization
Depression
Anxiety
Obsessive compulsive disorder
drugs
alcohol
ugly clothes because you just don't care what you look like.
Having to catch up once you are diagnosed.
Losing friends
Losing family
But is it worth it to be diagnosed even late? YES it is.
Numbness is the best way I can describe it.
There isn't any confusion anymore. I know what I am, I know where I stand, I still go around and around in circles over it, but I know what I am and all of the arguements involved thanks to Susan's and my realizations while in therapy. I owe all of you a great deal for that.
I know I'll never be what I've hoped and prayed for nor will I ever be what society expects, although I still pretend for the sake of those around me.
I've lived with my depression so long that I honestly can't imagine feeling any other way.
I live each day without thinking much. I do what I do moment to moment because that is what I've done in the past. Days merge and become months... then years.
Ask me what I did yesterday? I don't know.
I know I went to work.
I ate.
I slept.
That's it... I can't tell you much about yesterday other than that.
Most things are just a way to pass the time.
There are a few significant moments that break through and let some sun in once in awhile but they aren't common anymore.
It's not pain anymore.
It's just kind of a numbness.
I refer to it as the inductive approach to suicide.
Each day that passes is one day down and one less day you have to be here.
What keeps me alive day to day is that I don't want to hurt anyone else.
They take life seriously.
I can't take it seriously anymore because my life doesn't feel real, it's like I'm a ghost watching time move past me.
depression
isolation from other people
numbness to own feelings
sadness
a feeling of going through the motions of life as opposed to truly living and enjoying it
zythyra
Quote from: Rob on June 29, 2007, 08:51:34 AM
Never having a solid and secure sense of self-identity.
Always feeling like an outsider, not fitting in any kind of ordinary way with either women or men.
These are the main things for me, too, to the extent that in the past few years I've been constructing a self-identity that consists mainly of a permanent identity crisis and of being the odd one who
almost fits in. Not just with gender, but also with a few other facets of my life. At times I've felt great affinity with Schrödinger's cat.
Professionally this not-quite-this-but-not-that-either approach has at times been pretty successful. It's also worked to a degree in dealing with the gender issues, although only time will tell whether that will last. All in all, though, I believe it has made me grow up in some ways that I wouldn't have if I'd been cisgendered: placing myself in between the categories has required me to be more consciously me, with less reliance on cultural stereotypes. This, in turn, makes me less anxious to transition than I might be otherwise -- in a lot of respects I'm already pretty close to where I want to be.
Of course, the relative indifference towards transition reinforces my identity-as-identity-crisis. I'm not a proper transsexual, since (at least currently) I don't have an all-encompassing need to transition, and my wish to get my body fixed has not (yet) grown nearly strong enough to overrule the various social considerations that argue against it. I'm not properly androgyne either, since I do have a rather stable female gender identity, even though my body is clearly male and my social presentation somewhere close to the middle of the spectrum. So, in a sense, I can consider myself an oddity even here.
By the by, Nero, thank you for asking the question. Having to think about this cleared my mind a lot.
Nfr
Quote from: Seshatneferw on June 29, 2007, 03:21:14 PM
By the by, Nero, thank you for asking the question. Having to think about this cleared my mind a lot.
Nfr
What
Nfr really meant to say was :
"Quit messing with us, Man!!!" >:D :D ;) heh heh
QuoteAt times I've felt great affinity with Schrödinger's cat.
I have always really hated that theory.
Essentially, even if I choose to die right now, *I* won't be able to because *I* will always be in the world where it doesn't occur.
Furthermore, there is a corollary.
Assume:
*click* I tried.
There are now two worlds:
1. is a world where it occured and I have hurt all of those around me by dying (n number of people).
However, *I* my conciousness, am no longer in that world.
I am in the world it didn't occur and a 'click' happened. I wonder ... what the hell happened?
*click* I try again.
There are now 3 worlds. I have now hurt everyone who has known my in two universes (2n) and I am still alive in the third having only taken myself out of two alternatives.
click--------click------current (1)
| |
bang(2) bang(3)
So, in current state (1) my actions have hurt 2n number of people and I am still alive.
Which means the following:
I have hurt twice the number of people that could have been hurt given one and only one universe.
and furthermore, I still exist in exactly the same state as before.
This is precisely what the Schrödinger thought expirement states and It implies that we do not really have free choice. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, just that I don't like it much.
Jessica
you have all stated my thoughts on this topic... mainly the social isolation, depression, anxiety, and wasted years. I'm glad to have finally found who i am, i just wish it could have been 15 years ago.
Quote from: Nero on June 29, 2007, 01:26:19 AM
Hello guys and dolls.
What do you think are the ramifications of living with undiagnosed, untreated GID for decades?
And what ramifications continue to exist even after transition?
Nero
I think the best way I can put it is that my fuse was getting shorter and shorter as time went on. That, and depression.
This said, and while I am no way 'transitioned' I am well on my way and in my opinion as I sit right now it would seem my fuse has been reset... about that depression though....
Yeah.
BUT, there are a number of other issues and life it very self for that matter which plague me so, um...
Yeah.
Depression is rather lingering BUT,
*shrug* not all of it was in a transsexual... point of view in the first place.
Tis a good question Nero (=
Um, Jessica, what you are describing is the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, not the Copenhagen interpretation that the poor cat was supposed to illustrate. In the former, there exists one universe where the cat is dead and another where it's alive; in the latter, the cat is simultaneously dead and alive until someone opens the box and looks at it. But we digress.
Nfr
One of the biggest ramifications was that I almost died several times by my own hand.
Quote from: Jessica on June 29, 2007, 03:59:53 PM
QuoteAt times I've felt great affinity with Schrödinger's cat.
I have always really hated that theory.
Essentially, even if I choose to die right now, *I* won't be able to because *I* will always be in the world where it doesn't occur.
Furthermore, there is a corollary.
Assume:
*click* I tried.
There are now two worlds:
1. is a world where it occured and I have hurt all of those around me by dying (n number of people).
However, *I* my conciousness, am no longer in that world.
I am in the world it didn't occur and a 'click' happened. I wonder ... what the hell happened?
*click* I try again.
There are now 3 worlds. I have now hurt everyone who has known my in two universes (2n) and I am still alive in the third having only taken myself out of two alternatives.
click--------click------current (1)
| |
bang(2) bang(3)
So, in current state (1) my actions have hurt 2n number of people and I am still alive.
Which means the following:
I have hurt twice the number of people that could have been hurt given one and only one universe.
and furthermore, I still exist in exactly the same state as before.
This is precisely what the Schrödinger thought expirement states and It implies that we do not really have free choice. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it, just that I don't like it much.
Jessica
If we were lucky, you'd miss in every world and hit a flat worlder. >:D
Ugh. It did serious damage deep inside me. In retrospect I can see my soul was just rotting away. I knew something was drastically wrong for many years, but put off taking a good honest look to find the source of the rot and how to cure it. Although to most people I looked good on the outside, I became so foul and ugly inside I can scarcely bear to look back on those years, let alone talk about it. The hypocrisy just made it that much worse. All I can bring myself to tell anyone about it is... it was very, very bad. I don't even want to tell my therapist about what happened to me during those years. The point is, I got out of that and my healing is underway. I just feel relieved I got out before it really destroyed me. There is clearly no way I could have remained any longer like that. I've been to some dark places on my journey, but... This is the darkest subject of all for me. I shudder now to remember it. Literally shudder.
All I can say to people is-- please don't let this happen to you. Get it taken care of ASAP, for heaven's sake.
Thank providence I got out of it and now feel rescued from a very nasty end. It's how I know with absolute certainty I can never go back to denial, to the false identity I hid behind for too many years. I look forward to full transition to help me get clear of the yuck from my benighted past... and forgive myself.
Posted on: June 30, 2007, 01:15:46 AM
Quote from: charlotteNH on June 29, 2007, 06:38:48 AMfrankly, I saw no point in nurturing a life that I despised.
That is the crux of the matter. This reminds me of how some American Indian braves had a traditional war chant that went:
Is it real, this life I'm living?
Is it real, this life I'm living?The question needed to be asked by warriors like us, who are fighting a tough battle for our very existence... life is too short and too precious to be wasted in living fake.
Wow.... I can't relate to those of you in your 40's and 50's and still suffering from this. I can easily see how it gets put off and postponed however. You sacrifice your own happiness for your family. That's all there is to it.
I hate to throw out this lemon, but after transition, you'll still likely have serious depression issues to deal with. That doesn't magically go away ya know. You'll also have these little nagging thoughts (at least once in a while) that you are not "real". There are also a host of other real life problems to deal with after transition. Some of use manage to defeat these demons. It's best if you plan to deal with them when they come knocking.
Cindi
Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 30, 2007, 02:54:32 AM
I hate to throw out this lemon, but after transition, you'll still likely have serious depression issues to deal with. That doesn't magically go away ya know. You'll also have these little nagging thoughts (at least once in a while) that you are not "real". There are also a host of other real life problems to deal with after transition. Some of use manage to defeat these demons. It's best if you plan to deal with them when they come knocking.
Cindi
It's strange because once I realized I am most likely androgyne, I am feeling absolutely fab. However, before this I thought I was TS. I have been paying attention to Jillieann. She thought she might be androgyne for a while, but realized she really is TS. I don't know if I will have the same experience yet and I'm hoping that after about a year, by next summer, I'll have a handle on whether I'm androgyne or not.
If it does turn out that I am TS, I know there will be a lot of issues returning that will need to be addressed, but I'm okay with that. I've seen the worst any anything else will just be annoying.
The thing about being an androgyne is that there seems to be so little decent research on it. For me, it wasn't even a consideration until about 2 or 3 months ago when I began to question why I have trouble seeing myself as a woman. I didn't care about having breasts and I didn't care so much about the bottom stuff.
To be honest (and I may take a hit for this) until I found myself targeting myself as androgyne, I couldn't really conceive that such people even exist. I accepted that people were identifying as such, but I couldn't figure out why.
Anyway, I only meant to agree with Cindi, the rest was just me babbling. :-X
Can someone actually live with untreated GID for decades? I know what you are going to say; I can read your mind! >:D but seriously though, we can only deny ourselves for a period of time (i.e, decades in this instance), not forever.
Ramifications? Chronic depression, suicide, mental insanity....just my thoughts!
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 30, 2007, 02:54:32 AM
Wow.... I can't relate to those of you in your 40's and 50's and still suffering from this. I can easily see how it gets put off and postponed however. You sacrifice your own happiness for your family. That's all there is to it.
Maybe, but also work, career, money, health and other priorities or needs in life. There's more to it than just family.
Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 30, 2007, 02:54:32 AM
I hate to throw out this lemon, but after transition, you'll still likely have serious depression issues to deal with. That doesn't magically go away ya know. You'll also have these little nagging thoughts (at least once in a while) that you are not "real". There are also a host of other real life problems to deal with after transition. Some of use manage to defeat these demons. It's best if you plan to deal with them when they come knocking.
Sorry if my response to this quote here offended anyone. It was meant in humor in response to what I read as a statement of the obvious, and apparently some may not have seen my reply as humor. I apologize if anyone mistook the words.
Interesting thread and responses. Thanks.
--Susan--
Quote from: Cindi Jones on June 30, 2007, 02:54:32 AM
Wow.... I can't relate to those of you in your 40's and 50's and still suffering from this.
Yeah, I know, I hear from young-transitioned people all the time who can't relate to what I've been through. Sometimes I feel seriously othered, if not alienated, by this disconnect within the trans community. This is why I plead for withholding judgment of others when you don't know what it's been like for them. At times it's been really hard to talk about my suffering with trans people who can't relate to it. Maybe I should just keep a lid on it, except for my therapist who is professionally trained to listen and help without judging. Not that you're judging me here, Cindi, but the disconnect you're describing has at times brought me some real disrespect and I'm still kind of sensitive.
QuoteI hate to throw out this lemon, but after transition, you'll still likely have serious depression issues to deal with. That doesn't magically go away ya know.
I know that, of course. Nothing I said above can be taken to mean I expect it to "magically go away." (I knew to expect this reaction, though, it's pretty standard.) I said I look forward to full transition to
help me with the past, with the understanding that I have plenty of work to do on it, am working on it now, finding it hard though. Especially if someone can't relate to how I damaged myself, I doubt it would be worthwhile to go into it here. Just wanted to note that it does cause serious damage, to warn youngsters not to make the mistakes I made.
My life has been very much larger and more complicated than simply undiagnosed, untreated GID, and I honestly don't feel I would have been ABLE to deal with it sooner than I have. For me it's more like okay, now it's time to deal with this, and it's a huge and important piece of who I am, but I don't feel my life up until now has been wasted. It has been hugely difficult and painful in some ways, but it has been very rich and interesting in many ways, too.
I find that for myself regrets are mostly fueled by hindsight, illuminated by knowledge and resources that I have now that simply did not exist or were unknown to me then.
I grew up in a deeply fundamentalist repressive and suppressive Christian family, and although my family has always laughingly told stories of how when I was a toddler I wanted to be a boy, if I had persisted in that beyond an age when they could find it "cute" they would have put me in a mental institution, or worse. Seriously. I'm sure many people here can tell similar stories. I grew up simply making the hard shell around myself thicker and thicker, so it's taken me years longer than some people to dismantle it and break myself free.
This is my life, and this is where I am in it, at 51, and I'm okay with that. And I've been through enough major stuff to know that nothing is a magic bullet that's going to fix everything. I will always have the same genetic tendency to depression, and I'll still have whatever relationship issues I've always had, and so I'll keep working on those things and learning how to manage them, and some of them will get better, and some of them I'm sure I will struggle with in various ways for the rest of my life on earth.
I'll still be me after my better-late-than-never transition, I'll just be wearing, as Ram Das puts it, a different and more comfortable "spacesuit."
This query blows me away, my brother.
Hmmmm......having lived nearly all of my 51 years with undiagnosed and therefore untreated TS.......gotta think about this one [albeit not with much effort]....
--A constant and nominal state of gnawing anxiety.
--Depression.
--Eating [Bulimia, for example] disorders.
--A constant and nominal state of psycho-emotional confusion.
--A constant and nominal state of psycho-emotional agony, anguish and pain.
--Discordance in any intimate relationship.
--Sexual dysfunction in a 'traditional' heterosexual [in reference to the phenotypical body] relationship.
--Constantly feeling like I belonged or fit in nowhere. This is one area in which high intellect actually exacerbated my agony.
--In my case, a severe crippling of intellectual and cognitive function.
--RAGE.
Quote from: Rob on June 30, 2007, 07:22:04 PM
My life has been very much larger and more complicated than simply undiagnosed, untreated GID, and I honestly don't feel I would have been ABLE to deal with it sooner than I have. For me it's more like okay, now it's time to deal with this, and it's a huge and important piece of who I am, but I don't feel my life up until now has been wasted. It has been hugely difficult and painful in some ways, but it has been very rich and interesting in many ways, too.
Me too. I really had too much on my plate to even think about this any sooner than I have.
Confusion grows over time.
Alienation from peers came naturally for me, I never talked to my peers since I didn't feel like they did about stuff like puberty. I didn't want a boyfriend, didn't want to shop, have sleepovers, and put on make up. I wanted to play football. Thus I became a loner most of my life, not fitting in with any of my peers. Now that I'm living as male I'm going through a late adolescense.
Nick
Quote from: Nick on July 03, 2007, 12:53:12 AMI wanted to play football. Thus I became a loner most of my life, not fitting in with any of my peers. Now that I'm living as male I'm going through a late adolescense.
I know just how you feel--because I
hated football--this marked me as a Gender Traitor, as an Unboy. I was fine playing hopscotch with the girls at recess, until in 3rd grade I was ordered over to the boys' side of the playground where I was bullied and called "pu$$y," "->-bleeped-<-got," "girl."
Banished from the world of girls where I naturally belonged, and forced into the world of boys where I could not function, I became a very isolated child, for many years afterward I had hardly any friends. Everyone in my family always complained that I isolated myself. It was only upon coming out and living as a woman that I suddenly found it was easy and rewarding to belong to society and make lots of friends. I became just like a butterfly emerging from a cocoon.
Now I am reaching out to the rest of my family so they will know I'm done with being isolated and I always belonged with the girls.
Quote from: Hypatia on July 03, 2007, 08:23:39 AM
Quote from: Nick on July 03, 2007, 12:53:12 AMI wanted to play football. Thus I became a loner most of my life, not fitting in with any of my peers. Now that I'm living as male I'm going through a late adolescense.
I know just how you feel--because I hated football--this marked me as a Gender Traitor, as an Unboy. I was fine playing hopscotch with the girls at recess, until in 3rd grade I was ordered over to the boys' side of the playground where I was bullied and called "pu$$y," "->-bleeped-<-got," "girl."
Banished from the world of girls where I naturally belonged, and forced into the world of boys where I could not function, I became a very isolated child, for many years afterward I had hardly any friends. Everyone in my family always complained that I isolated myself. It was only upon coming out and living as a woman that I suddenly found it was easy and rewarding to belong to society and make lots of friends. I became just like a butterfly emerging from a cocoon.
Now I am reaching out to the rest of my family so they will know I'm done with being isolated and I always belonged with the girls.
Remarkable. :'(
I could have written that very same account.
Quote from: Rhonda on July 03, 2007, 04:35:54 PM
Remarkable. :'(
I could have written that very same account.
Thanks, Rhonda, it's very helpful to know I'm not the only one like this. I came from a socially conservative Catholic upbringing where any perspective like mine that was perceived to deviate from the norm was automatically delegitimized. Where anyone who wasn't able to conform to a narrow set of expectations was assumed to be just a troublemaker. Just to know that you're there and share similar experience is comforting.
Quote from: Hypatia on July 03, 2007, 08:36:45 PM
Quote from: Rhonda on July 03, 2007, 04:35:54 PM
Remarkable. :'(
I could have written that very same account.
Thanks, Rhonda, it's very helpful to know I'm not the only one like this. I came from a socially conservative Catholic upbringing where any perspective like mine that was perceived to deviate from the norm was automatically delegitimized. Where anyone who wasn't able to conform to a narrow set of expectations was assumed to be just a troublemaker. Just to know that you're there and share similar experience is comforting.
Hi Hypatia,
Are you trying to deny this in your case? ;D
Quote from: RebeccaFog on July 03, 2007, 08:58:19 PM
Quote from: Hypatia on July 03, 2007, 08:36:45 PM
Quote from: Rhonda on July 03, 2007, 04:35:54 PM
Remarkable. :'(
I could have written that very same account.
Thanks, Rhonda, it's very helpful to know I'm not the only one like this. I came from a socially conservative Catholic upbringing where any perspective like mine that was perceived to deviate from the norm was automatically delegitimized. Where anyone who wasn't able to conform to a narrow set of expectations was assumed to be just a troublemaker. Just to know that you're there and share similar experience is comforting.
Hi Hypatia,
Are you trying to deny this in your case? ;D
[shaking her head, laughing]
You know, you are a NUT, girl. :laugh: