That I'm trans, that I'm really a female. I've got a rough idea of what I'm going to do and say etc. but any support, advice, and so on would be helpful and nice to have. I'm going to send them an email. It's the best way to avoid hurt imo since they'll have time to think on it all and then deal with it.
I would definitely suggest beginning by letting them know you have put a lot of thought into it, that it isn't a whim, it has been with you a long time... stuff so they know it's not a phase.
Additionally, it would be nice if you let them know this isn't a result of anything they've done, they didn't *make* you trans. I say this because, as a parent, I am often very worried about lasting damage my lack of skill or knowledge may have caused my children.
I also recommend you let them know about the WPATH standards, that it is a life-threatening condition, but that with transition there is an excellent reason to hope for positive results.
And finally, let them know you need them in your corner. It hurts, as a parent, when your child is off in the world and there is little you can do for them. It helps to know that they still need you, or at least your support.
*hug*
Quote from: Robin Mack on November 25, 2013, 04:53:16 PM
I would definitely suggest beginning by letting them know you have put a lot of thought into it, that it isn't a whim, it has been with you a long time... stuff so they know it's not a phase.
Additionally, it would be nice if you let them know this isn't a result of anything they've done, they didn't *make* you trans. I say this because, as a parent, I am often very worried about lasting damage my lack of skill or knowledge may have caused my children.
I also recommend you let them know about the WPATH standards, that it is a life-threatening condition, but that with transition there is an excellent reason to hope for positive results.
And finally, let them know you need them in your corner. It hurts, as a parent, when your child is off in the world and there is little you can do for them. It helps to know that they still need you, or at least your support.
*hug*
I am going to have a Q&A in the letter I write them so I planned to let them know I've put a tremendous amount of time into this and know who I truly am as a result. The one thing I didn't think to let them know was that it's not their fault. Thank you. I will include that into the letter. :)
What is WPATH? And yeah, I figured it'd be a good idea to let them know how hard it is being trans, what we have to go through and how we're treated and so on. I just hope my family will support me and be there for me.
WPATH is the international standard of care for transgendered people. It can help to look through it and to know that gender dysphoria is a world-recognized phenomenon with huge consequences and a fair degree of understanding within the medical community. It's not perfect, but it does help.
Google "WPATH" or click here: WPATH (http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT%20SOC,%20V7.pdf)
It's not an easy read, but it's pretty straightforward, and gives a good overview of the "model" transition process.
God luck to you. I sent an email to my sister yesterday morning. She hasn't replied, not sure if it's out of fear, disgust, or that she simply hasn't checked her email yet.
Best of luck again, sis.
Quote from: Robin Mack on November 25, 2013, 04:53:16 PM
I would definitely suggest beginning by letting them know you have put a lot of thought into it, that it isn't a whim, it has been with you a long time... stuff so they know it's not a phase.
Additionally, it would be nice if you let them know this isn't a result of anything they've done, they didn't *make* you trans. I say this because, as a parent, I am often very worried about lasting damage my lack of skill or knowledge may have caused my children.
I also recommend you let them know about the WPATH standards, that it is a life-threatening condition, but that with transition there is an excellent reason to hope for positive results.
And finally, let them know you need them in your corner. It hurts, as a parent, when your child is off in the world and there is little you can do for them. It helps to know that they still need you, or at least your support.
*hug*
I agree 100% with what Robin has said. I've spent a long time getting a 9 page package ready for my mother since she's going to be the hardest to convince, and I just sent a 2 page letter to my sister, my cousin has known about it since October and she and her husband are coming down for Christmas and now all I've got left is my other sister. Lots of luck with your parents and I really hope that they're open minded and very accepting of the situation. :)
Kinda repeating this, but it helps me and I'm not sure I was clear enough.
When dealing with people in conflict, both minor and major conflicts, things work out a lot better if you put energy into understanding your counterparty. This means you have to be curious, ask questions, affirm feelings. It's very hard when you're having a hard time dealing with your own doubts to tackle someone else's.
I actually think a talk is better than a letter. Write letters before and after to gather your thoughts and remember how you feel, but don't send them. And not just one talk. It's probably going to take several to stick.
ganbatte yo, Shana-chan
Jeez, you all are so thoughtful. I'm sticking with a text. Doesn't seem like something I'd like to drop at Christmas dinner which is the next time I'll see my family anyway. Unless everyone stares at my boobs.
I do like Robin's tips though. Maybe I should incorporate that. Seems like good advice. Good luck Shana!
Hi Shana!
That's great to hear you plan on telling them!
I may have to take musicofthenight's side on this. When I told my Sister I wanted to wait until it was first face to face because they live out of state. I just think it helps them know how definite you are on your feelings.
And yes definitly like Robin said, let them know about things like WPATH, so they can grab an understanding if there having a difficult time, because I remember telling my sister that it was a very real thing and talking to her how it's possible for men to feel like women and vice versa and she said she could kind of see that in me and other people.
Either way you choose to tell them, I hope that everyone is as understanding to you as my sis was to me! :)
Thanks everyone for all the support. It really means a lot to me. :)
Well, after 8 hrs plus 2 days of searching for stuff and then some I finally sent them the email I wrote them. (The letter I said I'd send) I had already let them know I'd send an extremely important email tonight and I needed for them to read it plus since the letter idea came from someone else and not knowing how they'd react, I figured to avoid being hurt and a fight it was best to send them an email instead of over the phone or in person. Sadly I left out a few things but I can always tell them later I guess. Now I just wait and see what happens... I'll let ya'll know what does happen, hopefully it's good and they support me. The only person in my family who I had already told was my sister. She loves and accepts me for who I am and calls me her sister and a she. She's been there for me when I needed her and I love her all the more for that, I just hope the rest of my family will do the same. Btw I say family but it's really just my Dad and step mom I'm telling. We'll have to figure out a way to tell the rest of the family later. Right now though, it's going to be difficult presenting as female in public because of the fear and worry I'll be found out and be treated wrongly/differently because of it but I 've told myself I would do this from here on out. The only place I won't be doing this just yet is my job...any advice there and advice on how to get them to stop calling me "Sir" without telling them I'm trans?
Quote from: Robin Mack on November 25, 2013, 05:33:33 PM
WPATH is the international standard of care for transgendered people. It can help to look through it and to know that gender dysphoria is a world-recognized phenomenon with huge consequences and a fair degree of understanding within the medical community. It's not perfect, but it does help.
Google "WPATH" or click here: WPATH (http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/140/files/IJT%20SOC,%20V7.pdf)
It's not an easy read, but it's pretty straightforward, and gives a good overview of the "model" transition process.
Ah thank you for telling me. It may come in handy but that's a lot to read. So in short it's basically a guide to explaining what trans is, how real it is, what can be done including the treatments and how important it is to have the treatments in most cases?
Quote from: Willow on November 25, 2013, 06:17:49 PM
God luck to you. I sent an email to my sister yesterday morning. She hasn't replied, not sure if it's out of fear, disgust, or that she simply hasn't checked her email yet.
Best of luck again, sis.
Or it might be she just needs some time to process it and figure out what to say to you. If that's the case then imo that's possibly a good thing. I hope it works out for you and best of luck to you too.
Quote from: Gina Taylor on November 25, 2013, 06:26:47 PM
I agree 100% with what Robin has said. I've spent a long time getting a 9 page package ready for my mother since she's going to be the hardest to convince, and I just sent a 2 page letter to my sister, my cousin has known about it since October and she and her husband are coming down for Christmas and now all I've got left is my other sister. Lots of luck with your parents and I really hope that they're open minded and very accepting of the situation. :)
Coincidence maybe but two people here telling their sister and I think that's about as long as my email was after I finished it all. Haha Like you I believe my Dad is going to be VERY hard to convince, less so for my step mom since I got to hear her views on trans people which were for the most part good. I have no clue how my Dad will react though. :/Anyway good luck with your sister and telling your other sister along with your mom and I hope it works out for all of us. :)
Quote from: musicofthenight on November 25, 2013, 10:16:19 PM
Kinda repeating this, but it helps me and I'm not sure I was clear enough.
When dealing with people in conflict, both minor and major conflicts, things work out a lot better if you put energy into understanding your counterparty. This means you have to be curious, ask questions, affirm feelings. It's very hard when you're having a hard time dealing with your own doubts to tackle someone else's.
I actually think a talk is better than a letter. Write letters before and after to gather your thoughts and remember how you feel, but don't send them. And not just one talk. It's probably going to take several to stick.
ganbatte yo, Shana-chan
Umm, I kinda get what you're saying.
Yeah a letter (Or email in this case) is what I believe to be the best thing to do and have already done so. I don't really like wasting my life writing something up if I'm not going to send/post it and odds are I wouldn't read it or re-read it after I wrote it.
Arigato Music-san :)
Quote from: TiffanyT on November 25, 2013, 11:30:03 PM
Jeez, you all are so thoughtful. I'm sticking with a text. Doesn't seem like something I'd like to drop at Christmas dinner which is the next time I'll see my family anyway. Unless everyone stares at my boobs.
I do like Robin's tips though. Maybe I should incorporate that. Seems like good advice. Good luck Shana!
I would recommend doing a Q&A if you can. somewhere in this site I came across a thread for what questions/answers people asked/said to them. That gave me the idea to do a Q&A so it'd not only answer most of their questions but let them know who and what I am better and let them know so much more that helped strengthen what I was saying. I even pasted stuff which further helped to strengthen what I was saying. Thanks and you too Tiffany! :)
Quote from: Marieee on November 26, 2013, 04:26:03 AM
Hi Shana!
That's great to hear you plan on telling them!
I may have to take musicofthenight's side on this. When I told my Sister I wanted to wait until it was first face to face because they live out of state. I just think it helps them know how definite you are on your feelings.
And yes definitly like Robin said, let them know about things like WPATH, so they can grab an understanding if there having a difficult time, because I remember telling my sister that it was a very real thing and talking to her how it's possible for men to feel like women and vice versa and she said she could kind of see that in me and other people.
Either way you choose to tell them, I hope that everyone is as understanding to you as my sis was to me! :)
Hello Marieee, nice to meet you. :) Yup it is great I sent them the email (Unless it turns into a nightmare....) though it's going to be a bigger challenge ging outside in public as myself. But, I can do it, I just need to not let the fear and worry of being found out and being treated differently control me.
True, but it also comes with not knowing how they'll react, if they'll listen to you and not walk off and avoid a fight possibly. Plus it's not like I can't repeat myself but this time in front of them if need be though hopefully not. Hopefully they'll believe me after having shown them what little proof I could find that we're telling them the truth and all that I said and such. Though, I do know there are some people that simply won't get it or listen to what you tell them, will even ignor the proof that's staring them right in the face. :(
Thanks, I do too and glad it worked out for both of our sisters understanding us. :)
It's a good idea to get it done, but I hope you have exhausted all possibilities first, the TS genie doesn't go back in the bottle, and I would never encourage anyone to proceed with transition unless they must. Therapy is always recommended.
Quote from: Shana-chan on November 26, 2013, 05:22:10 AM
The only place I won't be doing this just yet is my job...any advice there and advice on how to get them to stop calling me "Sir" without telling them I'm trans?
Telling your employer is usually the same as "Going Full Time" and is certainly a point of no return. In many places it's the end of the job too - that's illegal but it happens. My feeling would be to leave it as long as possible and put up with the "Sir".
I do hope it goes well with your family.
Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on November 26, 2013, 05:35:39 AM
It's a good idea to get it done, but I hope you have exhausted all possibilities first, the TS genie doesn't go back in the bottle, and I would never encourage anyone to proceed with transition unless they must. Therapy is always recommended.
I've spent a TON of time making sure I am who I am and it is hurting me and making me depressed to be treated as a male and not being able to be myself. At home I've been wearing female clothing and lip stick for a year now. This isn't going to go away and I am who I am. I've pretty much hit a point to where unless my Dad or someone is willing to accept me and can help me then I can't even go to therapy let alone start on estrogen. :( I can't keep living this way, I've had TOO MUCH stolen from me and can't get it back (Such as not having the right body and having to grow up treated as the gender I'm not etc.) and each day I don't live as me, is another day that's stolen from me and we only have so long to live you know.
Quote from: MaryXYX on November 26, 2013, 06:05:02 AM
Telling your employer is usually the same as "Going Full Time" and is certainly a point of no return. In many places it's the end of the job too - that's illegal but it happens. My feeling would be to leave it as long as possible and put up with the "Sir".
I do hope it goes well with your family.
I know, it's wrong they do that to us and it's that fear/worry that scares me and is why atm I'm going full time out in public but not at work. I am put it hurts me and depresses me and makes me not happy when they call me "Sir" and I can't keep hanging in there being called "Sir" forever. Surely there's a way to ask them not to call me Sir without letting them know I'm trans?...
Oh and thanks. :)
Quote from: Shana-chan on November 26, 2013, 02:24:31 PM
I know, it's wrong they do that to us and it's that fear/worry that scares me and is why atm I'm going full time out in public but not at work. I am put it hurts me and depresses me and makes me not happy when they call me "Sir" and I can't keep hanging in there being called "Sir" forever. Surely there's a way to ask them not to call me Sir without letting them know I'm trans?...
If it's the custom to address men as "Sir" I don't see how you could ask them not to. Somebody else might have an idea but I don't.
I was presenting female in some public places before I let them know at work. I knew it was risky - I could have run into a colleague.
Good luck Shana, I will be thinking good thoughts and sending them your way.
I told him NOT to send me an email or call me and he sends me not one but 2 emails anyway. The result is that he used God against me and gave his own life examples of bad choices he made. He flat out said what I do is my choice since I'm an adult but he said I can't be myself (Dress in woman's clothing, wear make up etc. including the nail polish I was wearing around him, the bastard!) around them this means I can't come out as who I am right now because I have to damn rely on him for stupid transportation! T^T I'm hurting right now and trying to hold the anger and tears back though I've already cried some. It doesn't help my sister is asleep now so I have no want to talk too even though she said if I needed her to call her. >:(
WHY must I have to endure this crap and suffer this way and suppress who I truly am!? WHY GOD WHY!? T^T Why di you make me this way. wwwaaaaaa T^T
Needless to say he doesn't believe me, thinks I'm sinning and spouts crap about what unconditional love is and how we should judge people. Bull ->-bleeped-<-! >:( I HATE HIM sometimes. I wish my Mama was still here. T^T He also said he wouldn't call me what I truly am and will only refer to me as how he's been referring to me. Actually he said they (Him and my Step Mom) but he's always controlling her and deciding things for her. Then he spouts crap about how they love me unconditionally and for me to be respectful and by doing as he said or else he won't take me anywhere and said do we have an understanding? Even though that means I'd die from not being able to eat and so on because I'd need to go to the grocery store. FINE see if I won't go hungry and die of starvation you bastard! Lets TEST your STUPID demand and unconditional love for me! >:(
Excuse me, I'm having mixed emotions of hurt, angry, suppression, frustration and so on and I just don't know what to do anymore. I've gone through a ton ever since I was a kid, had to endure many wars between family etc. and is it too much to ask for peace and to be able to be myself and do what I want to do and be treated the way I want to be treated and to live a normal life? Is it?..........
Any advice on how to respond to his email and what to do? :(
I'm so sorry Shana. There's not much I can do besides this.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sherv.net%2Fcm%2Femo%2Fhug%2Fhugging.gif&hash=00bebd2976a1a921d7683a93e6d5e027bb97de78)
Shana I'am sorry to hear that girl :(
But this isn't the end. It's important that there's peace in a relationship, but you have a right to keep fighting for yourself and what makes you happy.
I just keep telling myself it's my life and it's there problem if they can't get over it, not mine. They won't get it right away and who knows, in time they may come around, maybe not completely but at least have more acceptance and that they realize your not worth losing because of what you choose. Family means to be there for each other always, regardless and god should not come between you and yours.
Keeping you in my thoughts!
HUGS
The first order of business is finding a safe outlet for your anger. Personally, I like to beat the s*** out of something with a stick, then write horrible violent and disturbing poetry until I feel better. Or at least feel something else.
My plan for a similar contingency is to say "Yes, you have that power over me now, and I'm very sad this is driving us apart. But I want your help to become independent as soon as possible."
Something you need to puzzle out is where he's coming from emotionally. I know sympathy is really, really, really hard but it's crucial to saving what you can of your relationship with him. And I suspect you want to, even if you don't want to want to.
Still thinking about the "sir" issue. Could I ask what you do, in what state, how long you've been at that job? I can see some options, but there will be risk.
I'm sad to hear it didn't go well. I'm still under stealth and I have only told my seperated wife who has been wonderful. Recently, she said that keeping this burden to herself was difficult and she asked me if she could talk with her mother - NO WAY RIGHT NOW. So I have arranged for her to talk with my therapist. I have been in therapy for two plus years.
I did'nt notice if you mentioned therapy because when I told my wife she asked me if I had considered this very carefully and that this was not just a whim. For the non savvy group like an old fashioned father who also consider any LGBT to be a correctable mental issue you may need to spend time in therapy and at some point in time have him talk with your therapist. Its really upsetting to fathers in particular - its a challenge to their male identity. Its also difficult for them as they want the best for you and this T stuff is far out there for most people. Be patient, work on yourself and let him know you will take professional advise. I know you are sure that you are a T girl but you can exhibit a flexibility for his sake and talk with a therapist more.
Dear "I'm Fine,"
That's not an ideal result, and ideal rarely happens. It's not disaster either, the religious preaching is of course an attempt to convert you, no biggie, one must deal with that all their lives, including from family. If you go ahead capitulating to demands, then why would family believe you? Doing your own thing will result in further confrontation, and gain respect at a probable loss of help. Concession will diffuse the situation, only temporarily(remember what I said about the Genie.) Then there is deception and lies, of course, the use and debasing of family to tell them that it's just a phase, use their services, and do your own thing. Only you can make a best guess would be what be the best route to go for all/all parties.
I can state without going into detail I have religious nuts in my family, they don't run my life, even if I wasn't TS I'd run like hell from their backwoods church denomination, and I'm not even anti religion.
Quote from: Shana-chan on November 26, 2013, 10:24:41 PM
...
Excuse me, I'm having mixed emotions of hurt, angry, suppression, frustration and so on and I just don't know what to do anymore. I've gone through a ton ever since I was a kid, had to endure many wars between family etc. and is it too much to ask for peace and to be able to be myself and do what I want to do and be treated the way I want to be treated and to live a normal life? Is it?..........
Any advice on how to respond to his email and what to do? :(
First, congratulations. It may be cold comfort, but you have taken a first (huge) step toward being who *you* really are. You have also discovered something important; you can't really count on your father, at least not right now. At least now you know, and you can plan around him. With time, his attitude may change.
Advice? Remember, advice (at least from me) is worth exactly what you pay for it. I would suggest you reply saying that you are extremely disappointed by his reaction, that you had hoped he would be supportive of you. I would remind him that you love him despite his actions at the moment.
He is quite possibly having a gut reaction from pain and shock. There is a lot for him to absorb in what you told him. Part of a reaction to a shock like this is denial that it could possibly happen, often coupled with anger born of fear. There are many things going on in his mind right now, I would think, including fear that he caused you to be this way, fear that you will never be accepted, etc. In addition, he may be in a parental loop. When you did something that he didn't like as a child, he could correct you... now that you are an adult, he has less control, and it appears that he might be grasping for things to use to "correct" your behavior.
Something that can help understand how parents react to the news that their child is transgendered can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model). It is a useful model (although not everyone agrees with it)... but it states that the stages a person goes through are as follows
Denial - "this can't be happening"
Anger - "How dare "he" do this to me?"
Bargaining - "Maybe I can talk "him" out of it..."
Depression - "This isn't changing, and there is nothing I can do."
Acceptance - "I may have lost a son, but at least I have a daughter."
So I would suggest leaving the door open for the future, but understanding that the future may be some time away. Meanwhile do whatever you can for *you*. This is your life, your journey, and you *are* an adult. You can do this. You are already a strong woman; you have proven it. You'll only get stronger.
*hug*
Thanks everyone for the hugs, advice and support. I only got around 6 hrs of sleep cuss when I woke up my mind started thinking about it again and wouldn't shut down and I'm used to getting 8 hrs of sleep and don't function well on 6 hrs or less of sleep, plus got to work today. -_-
Really I can't thank ya'll enough for your advice and the support, it means a lot to me. I'm going to reply to their email and try to convince them once more and this time trying to counter his argument when it comes to God and the bible. (I don't think this'll do much good now but maybe later on, who knows) I'll keep ya'll up to date on what happens but odds are I won't be seeing them or my sister this Thanksgiving and odds are I won't be seeing my Dad and step mom too much from hear on out given what they said. (My step mom sent me an email telling me she agreed on most of what he said... -_- )
OH! There was something else he mentioned he'd be willing to do for me and that is possibly taking me to a female doc who can see if I have buds or not. (I told him I was taught how, checked and think I felt them) And he'd take me to a therapist too. But I need your advice and opinion on this matter. See if I do either of them I'd have to dress in male cloths from what he said (When I'm around them only but still...) and what good will it really do me to see a therapist when A) I won't be able to start on hormones or transition B) My Dad said he'd pay for this a while back (Don't know if that's still the case or not...) but I know him and if it doesn't change me (Which it won't) then he won't take me anymore, will stop paying for it and maybe want me to see a different one even if this is the BEST KIND I could get and C) All it'd really do for me is have someone in my life other than my sister who I can talk too about what I'm going through so what's the point, especially when I'd have to give in to his demands and dress as a male? :( As for the female doc, well, I admit I'd be willing to dress in male clothing once more if it meant going to see if I'm intersex or not because I don't believe Gynecomastia will make males develop buds in their breasts and my belief is that for that percentage of people that never lose their breasts that it means it wasn't Gynecomastia but actual breasts but should I really give in to his demands on at least the female doc and or therapist? :(
Quote from: musicofthenight on November 27, 2013, 12:56:41 AM
The first order of business is finding a safe outlet for your anger. Personally, I like to beat the s*** out of something with a stick, then write horrible violent and disturbing poetry until I feel better. Or at least feel something else.
My plan for a similar contingency is to say "Yes, you have that power over me now, and I'm very sad this is driving us apart. But I want your help to become independent as soon as possible."
Something you need to puzzle out is where he's coming from emotionally. I know sympathy is really, really, really hard but it's crucial to saving what you can of your relationship with him. And I suspect you want to, even if you don't want to want to.
Still thinking about the "sir" issue. Could I ask what you do, in what state, how long you've been at that job? I can see some options, but there will be risk.
I got it out. The most I do is throw a phone against my bed/pillow and sometimes kick a container 1-2 times. Well that's for physical anyway. For verbal, we can all see I got that out already. I'm surprised I didn't say worse about him. o_o
Yes I've always wanted a Father like Goku from DBZ but I already gave up on that dream/hope long ago after realizing he'll never BE that kind of Dad. He's selfish, puts family 2nd-3rd (Depends), chooses to run away from MANY things including family and so on. I admit he's gotten better and isn't a "bad Dad" (Cuss he's somewhat here for me) but I've recently realized he hasn't changed as much as I'd thought. Despite all that and him abandoning me, my Sister and my Mama multiple times and kicking us out of our house when we were kids, he was there for me and my sis when we needed him the most a few years ago and has somewhat been there for us at times too and I still love him but it's NOT the same kind of unconditional/willing to do just about anything for someone as I have for my Mama. (I say just about because I wouldn't kill a person for her unless it was to save her life) SO yes I'd like to salvage the relationship but it's up to him too. Can't save a relationship if the other person isn't willing to try. :/
I'd rather not say what work I do (Nothing illegal/immoral though) but I can say I live in the US. I've been at the job for a month now and to my knowledge am still in training and this is my first ever job. When I'm at work I'm told "Good job" at times so it's going well I think. So what are the options and how risky are they?
Quote from: warlockmaker on November 27, 2013, 01:27:52 AM
I'm sad to hear it didn't go well. I'm still under stealth and I have only told my seperated wife who has been wonderful. Recently, she said that keeping this burden to herself was difficult and she asked me if she could talk with her mother - NO WAY RIGHT NOW. So I have arranged for her to talk with my therapist. I have been in therapy for two plus years.
I did'nt notice if you mentioned therapy because when I told my wife she asked me if I had considered this very carefully and that this was not just a whim. For the non savvy group like an old fashioned father who also consider any LGBT to be a correctable mental issue you may need to spend time in therapy and at some point in time have him talk with your therapist. Its really upsetting to fathers in particular - its a challenge to their male identity. Its also difficult for them as they want the best for you and this T stuff is far out there for most people. Be patient, work on yourself and let him know you will take professional advise. I know you are sure that you are a T girl but you can exhibit a flexibility for his sake and talk with a therapist more.
Yeah...I didn't realize it but my sister having to keep my secret with no one to talk too about it was hurting her and she broke her promise and told her BF after she felt she could trust him enough and said "He's a part of me and I'm a part of him." I don't truly understand that since I'm not stupid, in ANY relationship each person is going to have 1 thing they keep from the other, no matter how big/small. I do get it was hurting her and she needed someone to talk too about it so it's fine but I DON'T like that her BF said "You can't tell me? (or don't trust me)" and she didn't tell him "It's not that I can't/don't want to tell you, it's that I made a promise to someone that I wouldn't tell anyone." Instead she went behind my back and told him anyway. Then she gets angry at me for her breaking her promise and being hurt with her when what she SHOULD have done was come to me and explain it was hurting her, she needed to talk to someone about it and I can tell my BF and so on? But instead she didn't. She didn't do what your Ex-Wife did and went behind my back, broke her promise and betrayed my trust. Ironically I'm not mad at her, just hurt, disappointed and my trust in her has been really hurt. :(
I don't remember if I did or not but I've not gone to therapy for this and other than here, have only had my sister to talk too about it. Though I told 2 friends (1 was a troll -_-), they fought with me on it, made me re-question myself (Which in the end was a good thing) and don't believe me at all, despite the proof I showed them and how they say I act like a girl. :/ anyway I mentioned more on the therapy above so rather than repeat myself, please read it above if you haven't already. Yeah...he just thinks I'm confused and that he fears I came to this conclusion from my years on the internet even though I told him I re-questioned myself, came to the same conclusion and so on. Well I will be telling them I was dealing with this on my own before I knew about these forums and thus, I didn't get any help/read anything or come to this conclusion from the internet or from anyone. He's also a brick wall and only believes what he wants to believe and won't listen to a word anyone else says.
Quote from: Missy~rmdlm on November 27, 2013, 02:23:11 AM
Dear "I'm Fine,"
That's not an ideal result, and ideal rarely happens. It's not disaster either, the religious preaching is of course an attempt to convert you, no biggie, one must deal with that all their lives, including from family. If you go ahead capitulating to demands, then why would family believe you? Doing your own thing will result in further confrontation, and gain respect at a probable loss of help. Concession will diffuse the situation, only temporarily(remember what I said about the Genie.) Then there is deception and lies, of course, the use and debasing of family to tell them that it's just a phase, use their services, and do your own thing. Only you can make a best guess would be what be the best route to go for all/all parties.
I can state without going into detail I have religious nuts in my family, they don't run my life, even if I wasn't TS I'd run like hell from their backwoods church denomination, and I'm not even anti religion.
I'm an honest person so I don't believe lying/deceit is the right way to go about it plus as you said they won't believe me if I give in and they sure won't believe me if I say it's just a phase when it's not and will throw it up in my face if I do. Anyway you'll know my decision later when I post an update.
If your state has employment protections for TG employees, I think you should consider asking your boss's help on not being called sir. Like, if I had been in your shoes at my last job (federal gov't, so pretty decent protections. Better for binary TS, but a long, long way from discriminate-freely practices being legal.) I wouldn't have hesitated to ask my boss. I don't think she would personally approve of me transitioning, but I have no doubt she would have looked out for me the same. Both because of the rules and, more importantly, her loyalty to her people.
You might not have to disclose to your boss, but if you had to, at least in theory, you would be legally protected from retaliation. A good boss knows how to respect sensitive parts of employees' personal lives.
Don't be hasty, think this through thoroughly with lots of input.
Does your job require customer contact? (Don't share the answer if you don't want to.) It's not really right, but I imagine employers worry more about personal presentation when you're part of the business's public face.
Now, yes, I was going to recommend therapy but not gender-therapy. Both as a compromise between you and your father, and because I think it would help you deal with the significant conflicts in your life right now. (Understatement much?)
I suspect that an intersex diagnosis would help bring him around. I also would not, if at all possible, pin all your hopes on it though. It is very difficult for someone assigned M to get assigned F later. The good news is as an adult you have a right to refuse medical treatment, so the worst case horror I can imagine isn't going to happen.
("Why yes, those are real breast buds. Don't worry, we'll take them right out ." Oh hell no.)
Another thing to bear in mind is, as far as medicine is concerned, yes, a male body can grow glandular breast tissue. So... I'm not sure a diagnosis would be automatically awesome. Pursue this course to learn the truth, not hoping for a bargaining chip.
Anyway, therapy. My opinion on socially-conservative queer-fixing "therapy:"
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview%2F1026161%2Fno-god-no-o.gif&hash=212eaf101177328b1747209771e6705a524d9850)
No. Please, God, no!
Legitimate medicine agrees. At the same time, I think it would both be too much to ask of your father and perhaps not what you need to immediately go into gender therapy and transition. Don't get me wrong, you will get to transition, it's going to be awesome, and I want to do what I can to make that possible.
But you've grown up through some tough experiences. And there's a good chance that some of the things you've learned to survive should change. It isn't your fault and it's not at all like you're stuck the way you are, but my guess is you, like me, still have some growing up to sort out.
At the same time, I worry about a not-so-good gender therapy program thinking transition alone (maybe following a one-size-fits-all script) will heal your wounds. I disagree. Might be a good way to run a business, but not to help people.
So, my suggestion for a therapist: someone who's good with young adults.
Actually, if I could share one of my issues, maybe it'll help you get that conversation started.
I have an awful time trusting authority, and with appreciating and admiring my father the way I feel I should. It's likely that one cause of this distrust and misunderstanding isn't his fault at all. Over a period of five years I was verbally and emotionally abused by teachers at school. It was never violent or sexual, "only" humiliating, degrading, and manipulative. After two years I had developed a festering grudge against adults -- just about when my biological clock said it was time to become one myself.
This is one of the most important things I'm working through in therapy. It's not something I blame my father for, and it's something I can say "well, I'm working on this awful experience."
If you can find something in your past that bothers you, isn't your father's fault, and isn't (primarily) a gender issue, I think you should use that as an in to therapy. Say "I really need to talk through X. I think it's holding back my growing up."
Therapy sessions are of course confidential. Once in, do talk about gender and your father and whatever else bothers you.
Is it dishonest? Perhaps a little. But, ask why your father has to know all of your issues. You can't talk freely with him, can you?
Gosh, I hope this isn't too much to digest.
Soo, after 24 hrs worth of typing up emails to my Dad and step mom, the results are in and they're good. :) I went onto many things, did a BIG Q&A and so on. I even pointed out how woman now where pants but the bible/God said for woman not to wear anything that pertaineth unto a man and how come he isn't saying anything to his wife about her wearing pants. I pointed out other things too and in short, My step mom has been VERY accepting of who and what I am and has even gone clothes shopping for me and yes I mean for female clothes. :) She even gave me 3 pains of her jeans. 2 didn't fit though and the other barely fits. I'm hoping to talk with her more later today. As for my Dad, well, he still thinks I'm confused and so on and was harder to get him to agree to let me be myself but, he said so long as I don't wear makeup and a dress/skirt around him then he'll still take me to places I need to go to and so on. Basically this means I can NOW start dressing in female clothes out in public and be myself! :) I did tell him I was fine with that but understand, sooner or later I'll be wearing that stuff around him but he'll have time since he'll be able to better get used to me wearing my female clothes around him.
Now, some bad news to report. On Thanksgiving I misunderstood what he was saying so I dressed in my male clothes once more but said not anymore after this. Well its a good thing I did because he did 3 things which was disrespectful to me, could have blown my cover AND could have put my life in danger. The first was a bathroom incident, wouldn't you know it he starts crap about it (All be it quietly but still in public near people) and when I told him I didn't use the woman's restroom he didn't believe me but dropped it. The next incident he went and talked to my sister out in the open, in public about my secret, while me and my step mom were away. The Third incident was when he called me a he in front of someone. IF I had been wearing female clothes at that point or any of these then it'd REALLY have been bad possibly. I sent them an email on it instead of bringing it up with them in the car on the way home because my Dad wasn't acting like himself and I was concerned about him. He barely replied to it so further reason why I need to talk with my step mom soon to see what he had to say about it and so on.
So, they haven't abandoned/shunned me and I'm SOOO thankful that I told them. Now the next step is to come out to my neighbors and a few other people. I can deal with the rest of my family later unless they want to visit for Christmas. :/ Unfortunately, I don't know HOW I'm going to come out at work, or at two stores I go too sce some people working there now who I am kind of. :/ I am also scared/worried/a bit nervous about going out in public as myself finally because, what if someone notices me? Worse hurts me/rats me out to everyone etc.? And to top it all off, I don't have any female shoes to wear just yet. :/ BAH! I can't let these thoughts keep tying me down! It's time to start being myself and to finally begin transitioning. Hopefully I can start on hormones soonish. (Need to lose weight since I hear it's harder to lose weight when on E)
Quote from: musicofthenight on November 27, 2013, 06:51:05 PM
I have asked my Boss 2 times not to call me a "Sir" but just by my name. The 1st was kind of sheepish/quietly. The 2nd time I made SURE he heard me and understood. His response was he'd try but I need to understand it's hard wired into his head to say Sir. And, he hasn't stopped calling me sir nor is he trying.... :/ I'm undecided whether I will or won't tell him I'm trans and "possibly" might be IS. In the mean time if I can help it, I don't intend to say anything more to him on the "Sir" issue however, he did say he, nor any manager there would fire/discriminate against me because of who someone is nor would they fire someone whose being harassed/bullied/discriminated against but I still worry he might fire me. Nothing to indicate he would, he seems like a really good person and the employees seem to think so too. Still, if I was to tell him, this means having the other employees know too so how do I go about this? Email is out of the question btw.
why not gender therapy but therapy? So long as I have someone to talk to on this then other than getting the E and eventually getting a sex change approval, I don't need to really see a therapist/gender therapist but, since I need E and that darn approval, I 'll have to at some point. -_-
Yeah, I REALLY don't care what he thinks/believes so long as he doesn't shun/abandon me and doesn't blow my cover and treats me the way I want to be treated and so far, he's at least trying to do so.
EEEEK!!! 0o0 Oh hell no indeed! Thank God indeed! >.>
Even though he says he'll take me and I've told him what it's going to be about, I believe he still thinks its going to have a chance to change me and my mind when it won't.
Yeah, I'm an honest person, as much as I can be anyway but I'm sure this will work out in time. As for your experience. It's good to hear yu're working on it and sorry they did that to you but many adults can be VERY kind.
He's the type that's like a brick wall, also runs away at times and puts things off and, well, I'll say he's gotten a LOT better but even still, talking to him openly can be hard at times. That's not just because of him but because of me too.
Nope. Not for me it isn't. :)
Hey Shana glad you posted again I was thinking about you.
Really glad to hear that things are looking up for you, and thats great
Your mom took you clothes shopping, sounds fun!
That stinks your boss won't acknoweledge you they way you want, but in time I think will make that effort.
As for therapy, yea its a little bit of a drag to have to do this just to get on the E. I've yet to do it but also it will be good to talk with someone else that will listen and understand what your going through, I guess it cant hurt.
Still trying to get out in public myself, I have the same worries you do I just dont know how far out of town is far enough where people wont have a chance recognizing me.
Im happy people are coming around, so good to hear! :)
Congrats, Shana... you've done a difficult thing in coming out to your family, *and* you are being persistent about it. You've chosen to take an active stance in controlling your life, something many people never really do. That's a character trait of highly successful people, you know, and a key to happiness.
*hug*
Hi Ladies,
I really need some help, I hope someone can help me, or tell me what I can do.
I want to tell my two daughters so bad about me but my heart beats so fast I think I
am going to have a stroke. I do not know if I should right a letter or try to tell them
one at a time, I so scared of losing them it makes me so sick I start crying.
My wife died three and a half years ago and she new about me but I have know
one else to talk to.
My therapist told me I have to, but I just can not get my self up to tell them. And
it's breaking my heart.
They say praying helps but I been doing it for so long it seams I can't get the answers.
Thanks for listening to me.
Janis
Janis, feel free to PM me...
I have a few questions to ask before I can give you any suggestions. I came out to my daughters recently and it went well, but until I know a few things I'm not sure I can help. I can say that the peace of mind having this step taken care of has given me has been a huge boost in troubled times.
How old are your daughters? Are they tolerant/allies/supporters of GLBT people (or are they, themselves?) How close are you to them?
*hug* I know this is a scary thing; it certainly was for me. One thing I have discovered so far though is that most of the scariness in coming out was inside my own mind. The support and surprising allies I have found have shown me that in my situation the biggest thing I had to fear was my own insecurity.
Ooh that is lucky, all things considered.
It might surprise him what you have to say about stealth, safety, the restroom problem, etc. It shows that this isn't just a whim, but that you're seriously considering the pros and cons of transition. In little ways you're putting him in your shoes, he's likely having "my son knows he might get beat up, this must really matter to him" moments which are tough but mean he's making progress.
I'm sure he's terrified you'll be hurt. That may not help his case, it may also help him respect you. I do think you need to find the courage to talk to him face-to-face sooner than later. Paternal fear is really, really powerful and I can see it surfacing later.
So, therapy... I admit I'm more scared off by stories of bad gender therapy than anything else. I haven't given it a shot (non-op, no body dysphoria per se, decided to put off my decision on HRT), so that's not a fair assessment. But my worry is you might end up with some clinic that believes you're not really a girl if you wear pants ever. Or some subtle nonsense like encouraging you through transition as quickly as possible - then whatever problems remain are your own.
The problems you bring here are about relationships and acceptance far more than body image. Yes, there's the "am I IS?" question, but I think answering it has more to do with getting a ride to the right doctor than what gender therapy.
That's not to say that things won't change, or that I'm even close to right. Do seek out a trans-friendly office, so when you need to segue into referral letters or how to go full-time your therapist will be ready to help whether herself or by referring you to someone else.
Quote from: Shana-chan on December 02, 2013, 02:33:22 AMYeah, I REALLY don't care what he thinks/believes
...
He's the type that's like a brick wall, also runs away at times and puts things off and, well, I'll say he's gotten a LOT better but even still, talking to him openly can be hard at times. That's not just because of him but because of me too.
I think someone's brushing off something that actually matters to herself more than she wants to admit. That's not super-crazy in the grand scheme of crazy, and sure it could just be me. And there's nothing wrong with how swift and intense your emotions seem, but if you
do things impulsively, you're gonna do something stupid sooner or later. That's where my recommendation comes from.
But enough of that. I'm sure others are curious, too, so tell us. What styles are you going to try? Are you growing out your hair already?
Yeah, I'm just a little bit jealous things are working out so well.
Just incase anyone wants to know how my first day out in public as my true self went, here is what happened. (This also has a smidge bit of bad/unsure if still bad news involving something my Dad said to me in an email)
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,155498.0.html
Quote from: Marieee on December 02, 2013, 04:31:40 AM
Hey Shana glad you posted again I was thinking about you.
Really glad to hear that things are looking up for you, and thats great
Your mom took you clothes shopping, sounds fun!
That stinks your boss won't acknoweledge you they way you want, but in time I think will make that effort.
As for therapy, yea its a little bit of a drag to have to do this just to get on the E. I've yet to do it but also it will be good to talk with someone else that will listen and understand what your going through, I guess it cant hurt.
Still trying to get out in public myself, I have the same worries you do I just dont know how far out of town is far enough where people wont have a chance recognizing me.
Im happy people are coming around, so good to hear! :)
Thank you, it's nice to know people think of me at times. :)
It's going a LOT better than I was expecting it too, still have a lot more coming out to go such as to the rest of my family and at work etc. but actually she didn't take me, she just shopped for me by herself. she's also not my Mom but my step mom. lol
Only if I was to keep asking him not to call me a sir but I won't do it. I want to come out at work but the way things stand, not sure if that's a good idea or not and don't know how too...
There's a LOT to consider when you do. The fear/worries don't help either. I decided to wait many months till I couldn't take it anymore. Though it was close to Thanksgiving the thought of having to go eat out with my family again in those male clothes and having my Dad say to someone who calls me a ma'am "This is my son" again was too much. So I finally reached the breaking point and decided to tell them. It's a good thing the breaking point was also the point in which I was finally ready to tell them.
Quote from: Robin Mack on December 02, 2013, 08:42:20 AM
Congrats, Shana... you've done a difficult thing in coming out to your family, *and* you are being persistent about it. You've chosen to take an active stance in controlling your life, something many people never really do. That's a character trait of highly successful people, you know, and a key to happiness.
*hug*
Thank you. :) And I hope it is, all I want is peace, happiness and the things in life that people take for granted. (And a few other things hehe)
Quote from: janis on December 02, 2013, 11:40:43 AM
Hi Ladies,
Hi, I would offer advice and such but based on what Robin asked/said here and knowing you both are talking about it through PM I honestly think you're getting advice that's similar to what I'd say. (Since the questions asked are what I'd have asked too) Best of luck!
Quote from: musicofthenight on December 02, 2013, 02:07:46 PM
So, therapy... I admit I'm more scared off by stories of bad gender therapy than anything else. I haven't given it a shot (non-op, no body dysphoria per se, decided to put off my decision on HRT), so that's not a fair assessment. But my worry is you might end up with some clinic that believes you're not really a girl if you wear pants ever. Or some subtle nonsense like encouraging you through transition as quickly as possible - then whatever problems remain are your own.
I think someone's brushing off something that actually matters to herself more than she wants to admit. That's not super-crazy in the grand scheme of crazy, and sure it could just be me. And there's nothing wrong with how swift and intense your emotions seem, but if you do things impulsively, you're gonna do something stupid sooner or later. That's where my recommendation comes from.
But enough of that. I'm sure others are curious, too, so tell us. What styles are you going to try? Are you growing out your hair already?
I told them as much as I could, even many of the problems we have to face/deal with and even linked them to this site and Laura's playground to do more research for themselves and seek advice from people. But yeah, they truly believe I really do feel this way etc. but at least last I heard my Dad still thinks I'm confused. "
Denial will get people no where."
I'd like to talk to them in person but, no time right now and even then, I rarely get to see them outside of the quick trip to the grocery store. :( But I was able to ask him on our way back recently if he suspected or knew I was transgender and his answer was that he thought (Due to stuff) that I was wanting to do something with my hair or something with myself involving anime. (Cosplaying or just having an anime hair style) So how he could come to THAT conclusion is beyond me. *Speechless* So yeah, unless he was lying to me then I guess he didn't know or suspect I was trans, even though the signs were staring him all over the place. :P
Well it doesn't help anyone's fear when we hear bad stories, no matter how small. I'd like to think the majority would do their job right and wouldn't discriminate. The pants thing I'd seriously tell them to get their eyes and head checked since woman wear pants these days too and if they don't do their job right and or they make me feel like they don't want me there like that then I'll go find someone else if I can. I DO want to transition, but having to be left with problems after transitioning is also a part of their job and not for the person to have to deal with on their own and I'd tell them that too.
Yes but "body image" and "looks" also play a part in all that. Yeah...I've had no luck figuring out who I should go too to see if I'm IS or not. My Dad wants me to find out who to go to for this but all I do know I want done is to check my breasts for buds and to check my insides (Below stomach and private area) by an image or something to see if I'm IS or not but I don't know if a normal doc can do that or not?
>_< Yeah, guess you're right. I DO want them to accept me for who and what I am and that also includes them believing me too. Sometimes I just get so sick of family thanks to how I grew up and was treated by family. (It COULD have been worse though lol)
Styles? For clothes you mean? If so then tbh I unfortunately have near 0 percent fashion sense. :( So I don't know at this point. It was hard enough last year buying my female clothes in public while wearing male clothes and the cashiers weren't friendly to me either. :( So I've had very little shopping for clothes experience.
Yup, have been for over a year now and my hair is long now. It helps me to pass better, less so when it's wet though. :(