Hi everyone!
I'm considering Brassard and Suporn for SRS this year. My main concern is aesthetics. I'm from Brazil, so flying to Canada or Thailand are both the same for me.
I've only seen Brassard's results on Anne Lawrence's website, while I've only seen Dr. Suporn's results on his own webpage.
The thing is, I was pretty sure I wanted Suporn for my surgery (he's recognized as the best here), but I ran across this website (http://www.mythaisrs.com/2014/02/dr-suporn-surgery-photos.html) and I am now horrified! I know that blogger seems content with her result, but the thing is, I could never accept that. I can see "penile remains" (erectile tissue) and that really frightens me. Also, they report it is uncertain if Suporn was able to remove both testis! Huh??? How can this be??? I would like to know if this is an exception and if anyone else knows where else I can find Suporn's results as well as Brassard's?
Please let me know. Also, if there are any girls here who had surgery with Brassard, can you please tell me the depth achieved and the amount (little, medium, a lot) of material you had available?
I'm heterosexual, so I need at least 6 inches of depth (to be able to accommodate an average man without any trouble).
Thank you so much :)
I have not had my surgery yet (it's scheduled for June with Brassard) but I just wanted to note that ,as far as I know, the photos on Anne Lawrenece's website are 10 years or more old. And as far as the Suporn result photos on that blog, they only go through one month post op...
Quote from: Tammy M on April 13, 2014, 07:38:36 PM
I have not had my surgery yet (it's scheduled for June with Brassard) but I just wanted to note that ,as far as I know, the photos on Anne Lawrenece's website are 10 years or more old. And as far as the Suporn result photos on that blog, they only go through one month post op...
Hi Tammy. Have you personally met him? Did he show you pictures of more recent results; do you know any other website where I could find such? I'm very curious about his work :)
I know, but that blogger also reported that it is uncertain if Suporn removed both testis. That makes me terrified! Can you imagine the horror? :o
I went to Brassard; he generally tries for at least 5.5" of depth, which is exactly what I got, using what I think is "average" starting material. If you want, I can dig up an older post where I went into a lot of detail, but suffice it to say I'm absolutely happy with my results.
I'll second that the Lawrence photos are very out of date, for all surgeons. It's a shame that it's so hard to find pictures available of current work... but I admit, I'm not comfortable posting photos of my genitalia, so I guess I'm part of the problem.
(That blogger had one testis internal or possibly absent, which is why the uncertainty. Other doctors hadn't been able to verify where or if it was in her abdomen either.)
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 13, 2014, 08:32:15 PM
I went to Brassard; he generally tries for at least 5.5" of depth, which is exactly what I got, using what I think is "average" starting material. If you want, I can dig up an older post where I went into a lot of detail, but suffice it to say I'm absolutely happy with my results.
I'll second that the Lawrence photos are very out of date, for all surgeons. It's a shame that it's so hard to find pictures available of current work... but I admit, I'm not comfortable posting photos of my genitalia, so I guess I'm part of the problem.
(That blogger had one testis internal or possibly absent, which is why the uncertainty. Other doctors hadn't been able to verify where or if it was in her abdomen either.)
Hi Jenna! Oh, I see. I would be very grateful if you could find any post that could help me :)
Do you think his results are much better now than those on the Lawrence website? If so, can you emphasize how, please? ::) What about Yvon Menard, is he his partner?
Ah, I see. So I guess she is actually intersex. ???
Menard retired a while ago; Brassard works with a Dr. Belanger (a woman), now. As for improvements since then, it's worth noting that some of Lawrence's pictures for him are *immediately* post-op, when everything is horrifying. Mine looked terrible for the first few weeks, too. The main distinction I note if I disregard those pictures is that the clitoral hooding and inner labia definition is better now, and the urethral mucosa lining both (for me at least) is a very natural pink. He also does a rudimentary posterior fourchette; not as good as you get with a two-stage procedure, but not out of the range of cis variations, which is good enough for me. I do have considerably smaller and "neater" inner labia than many of those photos, though whether that's an improvement is a matter of opinion - I like it, but that's my personal preference, not a general judgment.
No, I don't think she was intersex, she just had an undescended or missing testicle. It happens in some cis men as well.
Reposted :
In fact, I had essentially full sensation - clitoral, labial, and internal vaginal - from the moment I woke up from surgery. This was a downside during the initial days, as you can imagine, although the pain wasn't all that bad.
Yes, I am easily orgasmic. It took a bit of effort to relearn my body, but my first orgasm was 3 weeks post-op in a dream, so clearly the nerves all worked fine and it was my brain getting in the way!
Not sure about prostate sensation. I didn't ever experiment with prostate stimulation pre-op, so I wouldn't necessarily recognize it post-op. I do have an area of highly erogenous sensation in roughly the equivalent spot to the "G-spot," which I have been told is likely the prostate.
I am fully sensate inside my vagina. Again, not orgasmic from vaginal stimulation alone, but it's NICE.
Never any numbness, either.
In fact, the pain was less and ended faster than I'd expected. It was still probably 3-4 months before I wasn't a *little* sore after a long day, but less than a month before I was almost 100% pain-free.
Yes, I have labia majora which are aesthetically correct and properly located. Mine are pretty puffy, but I also had tremendous, ridiculous swelling right after (even the nurses were shocked), so I'm not convinced it's all gone away YET.
Ditto the labia minora. They're fairly small, but that's not atypical.
Yes, I have both a fully (extremely!) sensitive clitoris and hood. Incidentally, both the clitoral hood and labia minora have the inner portion lined with leftover urethra, which is mucosal tissue that is light pink and moist just as in cis women, a detail I appreciate.
Yes, my urethra is correctly positioned and functional. It's just barely distinguishable from the vaginal opening (ie, directly above), which matches what I see in my wife and on anatomical diagrams. There were some issues with spraying early on because of the severe swelling, but everything works fine now.
My vaginal opening is also correctly placed and looks normal.
I did not do hair removal, and have had no hair regrowth except in areas where I would expect it (pubis, outside of the labia majora).
5" of depth as far as I can determine. I'm content with that. I started with 5.5" but that half inch may have been swelling for all I know.
No serious complications aside from one stitch that pulled out early but healed cleanly. I did have a reccurring soreness and a need to massage/stretch the scar tissue around 3 months post-op, which I've been told is normal for any surgery (not just GRS).
I did have a devil of a time with the catheter, though. Again, bladder spasms are harmless and common, but that was AWFUL. I was so glad to see that go.
He offers free revisions for the first year but I was happy. It's quirky/not identical to other vulva I've seen, but hey, that's normal!
As a final note, I also do self-lubricate somewhat, and can "squirt" at orgasm on occasion. (But I have a female partner; my experience with penetrative sex does not involve men, if that matters.) All in all, I'm very satisfied.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 13, 2014, 09:04:41 PM
Menard retired a while ago; Brassard works with a Dr. Belanger (a woman), now. As for improvements since then, it's worth noting that some of Lawrence's pictures for him are *immediately* post-op, when everything is horrifying. Mine looked terrible for the first few weeks, too. The main distinction I note if I disregard those pictures is that the clitoral hooding and inner labia definition is better now, and the urethral mucosa lining both (for me at least) is a very natural pink. He also does a rudimentary posterior fourchette; not as good as you get with a two-stage procedure, but not out of the range of cis variations, which is good enough for me. I do have considerably smaller and "neater" inner labia than many of those photos, though whether that's an improvement is a matter of opinion - I like it, but that's my personal preference, not a general judgment.
No, I don't think she was intersex, she just had an undescended or missing testicle. It happens in some cis men as well.
Reposted :
In fact, I had essentially full sensation - clitoral, labial, and internal vaginal - from the moment I woke up from surgery. This was a downside during the initial days, as you can imagine, although the pain wasn't all that bad.
Yes, I am easily orgasmic. It took a bit of effort to relearn my body, but my first orgasm was 3 weeks post-op in a dream, so clearly the nerves all worked fine and it was my brain getting in the way!
Not sure about prostate sensation. I didn't ever experiment with prostate stimulation pre-op, so I wouldn't necessarily recognize it post-op. I do have an area of highly erogenous sensation in roughly the equivalent spot to the "G-spot," which I have been told is likely the prostate.
I am fully sensate inside my vagina. Again, not orgasmic from vaginal stimulation alone, but it's NICE.
Never any numbness, either.
In fact, the pain was less and ended faster than I'd expected. It was still probably 3-4 months before I wasn't a *little* sore after a long day, but less than a month before I was almost 100% pain-free.
Yes, I have labia majora which are aesthetically correct and properly located. Mine are pretty puffy, but I also had tremendous, ridiculous swelling right after (even the nurses were shocked), so I'm not convinced it's all gone away YET.
Ditto the labia minora. They're fairly small, but that's not atypical.
Yes, I have both a fully (extremely!) sensitive clitoris and hood. Incidentally, both the clitoral hood and labia minora have the inner portion lined with leftover urethra, which is mucosal tissue that is light pink and moist just as in cis women, a detail I appreciate.
Yes, my urethra is correctly positioned and functional. It's just barely distinguishable from the vaginal opening (ie, directly above), which matches what I see in my wife and on anatomical diagrams. There were some issues with spraying early on because of the severe swelling, but everything works fine now.
My vaginal opening is also correctly placed and looks normal.
I did not do hair removal, and have had no hair regrowth except in areas where I would expect it (pubis, outside of the labia majora).
5" of depth as far as I can determine. I'm content with that. I started with 5.5" but that half inch may have been swelling for all I know.
No serious complications aside from one stitch that pulled out early but healed cleanly. I did have a reccurring soreness and a need to massage/stretch the scar tissue around 3 months post-op, which I've been told is normal for any surgery (not just GRS).
I did have a devil of a time with the catheter, though. Again, bladder spasms are harmless and common, but that was AWFUL. I was so glad to see that go.
He offers free revisions for the first year but I was happy. It's quirky/not identical to other vulva I've seen, but hey, that's normal!
As a final note, I also do self-lubricate somewhat, and can "squirt" at orgasm on occasion. (But I have a female partner; my experience with penetrative sex does not involve men, if that matters.) All in all, I'm very satisfied.
I see. Is the size of the clitoris and the hood within the normal female range, though? I've seen some (from other surgeons) that really look like the penis glans, which is very discouraging...
I am very confused about fourchettes, is it like a loose skin below the opening?
What about scarring? Is it noticeable?
Did it hurt to dilate? Is his schedule very vigorous?
There is one result here on Susans, do you think it is more like his recent or older work: https://www.susans.org/wiki/File:Post-op-vagina.jpg
He seems to do very neat work, like "Barbie" vaginas (http://urogyn.org/labiaplasty_barbie.html)
Sorry for the many questions. I really do appreciate any answers you can give me :)
My clit is just about the same size as my wife's. :) I don't know precisely what the cis range for them is, but it's tiny and super sensitive. The hood is appropriately sized to it.
The fourchette is where the labia meet beneath the vaginal opening. http://chestofbooks.com/health/anatomy/Human-Body-Construction/images/Fig-465-External-female-genitals-vulva.jpg
Scarring for me is two 3" or so scars, one each on the labia majora; after 2 years and hair regrowth, they're effectively invisible. I have some internal scarring as well, which I don't know the details of (I can't see it) but have been assured that it looks similar to the results of a hysterectomy. But yes, I will say it very much resembles the "after" photos in those Barbie vagina/labial trimming pics. If that's what you want - it isn't for everyone - he does it VERY well.
That photo from Susan's is an actual poster here; I feel really weird commenting with a critique of her genitalia.
Dilation was never terribly painful except for one time when I wore tight pants and chafed badly down there. Uncomfortable to mildly painful sometimes in the first couple months, and it got better with time. I did find the first month's dilation + aftercare schedule to be a lot of work, but that also improved rapidly over time.
The dilation schedule from Brassard's own communications :
Post operative dilation and douching instructions
Dilations
Healing after a vaginoplasty lasts one year. Keep in mind that the
success of this surgery depends on maintaining the length, girth and
depth of your new vagina. To achieve this, you need a set of 4
dilators and respect the instructions below. Do not stop dilations
without advising your surgeon. Stopping dilations will cause the loss
of the vaginal canal and is irreversible without further surgery (skin
grafts or bowel transposition).
Relaxing
Relaxing is the key step. It will make dilations much easier. Taking
ten slow deep breaths before beginning is one good way to get rid of
tension.
Angle
After you have localized the vaginal opening with a mirror, insertion
should be made for the 2 first inches with a slightly downwards 15°
angle. Do not go directly towards the rectum. After that the angle
should be corrected so that the dilator becomes almost parallel to the
bed while trying to aim at the navel.
Pressure
Insertion should always be gentle and slow. When the dilator is
inside the vagina for the entire length, apply constant not forceful
pressure. Gaining depth by applying more pressure is not advised.
Dilation instructions
Wash your hands
The first day of your dilations, the attending nurse will show you
every step of the process.
- Hold dilator #1 like a pen
- Apply about one teaspoon of lubricant gel on the tip of the dilator
- Insert at a slight downward angle for the 2 first inches
- Leave dilator inside 5 minutes; remove slowly
- Repeat with dilator #2 for 15 minutes
The second day of dilation can be more difficult because of swelling
that sets inside the vagina during the night. It is perfectly normal.
Be patient.
You should gently and frequently wipe out the gel that is coming out
at the bottom of the vagina.
Wait 3 months before having intercourse.
DILATION SCHEDULE
At the residence
You should dilate 4 times per day.
Day of traveling
You should at least dilate once before leaving the residence. If you
have time, dilate more that once before your departure. Even if you
have a long day of traveling and you cannot dilate for hours, you
should plan on doing at least one dilation when you arrive at home.
Please be active on the plane. Walk as much as you can.
Home
Resume your schedule as soon as possible.
At home, you should dilate 4 times per day with, #1, #2 for 5, 15
minutes for one month.
Dilate 3 times per day with #1, #2, #3 for 5, 10, 15 minutes for two months.
Dilate twice a day with #2, #3, #4, for 5, 10, 15 minutes for 3 months
Dilate once a day with #3, #4, for 5, 15 minutes for 6 months.
Slowly increase the interval of time between each dilation until you
reach one dilation per week with #4, for 15 minutes for the rest of
your life.
If you have difficulties with a bigger size dilator, wait before you
are comfortable with this one before using a bigger size. You can go
back to a smaller size and increase the frequency for a few days.
CARE FOR DILATORS
Wash the dilators after each use with non-abrasive antibacterial soap
in warm water and dry thoroughly. Do not wash them in the dishwasher
or clean with alcohol. This could damage them.
While at the convalescence home, the dilators are kept in Hibitane,
Dexidin 4 or Hiciclens 4 to find in pharmacy. 25ml of solution in
one gallon of demineralised water) Use one or the other solution.
After 2 months, store them in a clean and dry place between dilations.
In two months, stop: vaginal douche, soaking your dilators and sitz bath.
The Polysporin cream is for 10 days.
Maintain at least 2 hours intervals between dilations (from the time
you finish one and the time you do another one, 2 hours minimum.
(actually, now that I've read around that site a bit more - the Barbie look is complete *removal* of the labia minora! So, no, I guess that's not true. I do still have them, they're just not very prominent - more like what the site is calling the "rim" or "hybrid" look. They exist, but are tucked neatly inside the labia majora.)
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 13, 2014, 09:35:19 PM
My clit is just about the same size as my wife's. :) I don't know precisely what the cis range for them is, but it's tiny and super sensitive. The hood is appropriately sized to it.
The fourchette is where the labia meet beneath the vaginal opening. http://chestofbooks.com/health/anatomy/Human-Body-Construction/images/Fig-465-External-female-genitals-vulva.jpg
Scarring for me is two 3" or so scars, one each on the labia majora; after 2 years and hair regrowth, they're effectively invisible. I have some internal scarring as well, which I don't know the details of (I can't see it) but have been assured that it looks similar to the results of a hysterectomy. But yes, I will say it very much resembles the "after" photos in those Barbie vagina/labial trimming pics. If that's what you want - it isn't for everyone - he does it VERY well.
That photo from Susan's is an actual poster here; I feel really weird commenting with a critique of her genitalia.
Dilation was never terribly painful except for one time when I wore tight pants and chafed badly down there. Uncomfortable to mildly painful sometimes in the first couple months, and it got better with time. I did find the first month's dilation + aftercare schedule to be a lot of work, but that also improved rapidly over time.
The dilation schedule from Brassard's own communications :
Post operative dilation and douching instructions
Dilations
Healing after a vaginoplasty lasts one year. Keep in mind that the
success of this surgery depends on maintaining the length, girth and
depth of your new vagina. To achieve this, you need a set of 4
dilators and respect the instructions below. Do not stop dilations
without advising your surgeon. Stopping dilations will cause the loss
of the vaginal canal and is irreversible without further surgery (skin
grafts or bowel transposition).
Relaxing
Relaxing is the key step. It will make dilations much easier. Taking
ten slow deep breaths before beginning is one good way to get rid of
tension.
Angle
After you have localized the vaginal opening with a mirror, insertion
should be made for the 2 first inches with a slightly downwards 15°
angle. Do not go directly towards the rectum. After that the angle
should be corrected so that the dilator becomes almost parallel to the
bed while trying to aim at the navel.
Pressure
Insertion should always be gentle and slow. When the dilator is
inside the vagina for the entire length, apply constant not forceful
pressure. Gaining depth by applying more pressure is not advised.
Dilation instructions
Wash your hands
The first day of your dilations, the attending nurse will show you
every step of the process.
- Hold dilator #1 like a pen
- Apply about one teaspoon of lubricant gel on the tip of the dilator
- Insert at a slight downward angle for the 2 first inches
- Leave dilator inside 5 minutes; remove slowly
- Repeat with dilator #2 for 15 minutes
The second day of dilation can be more difficult because of swelling
that sets inside the vagina during the night. It is perfectly normal.
Be patient.
You should gently and frequently wipe out the gel that is coming out
at the bottom of the vagina.
Wait 3 months before having intercourse.
DILATION SCHEDULE
At the residence
You should dilate 4 times per day.
Day of traveling
You should at least dilate once before leaving the residence. If you
have time, dilate more that once before your departure. Even if you
have a long day of traveling and you cannot dilate for hours, you
should plan on doing at least one dilation when you arrive at home.
Please be active on the plane. Walk as much as you can.
Home
Resume your schedule as soon as possible.
At home, you should dilate 4 times per day with, #1, #2 for 5, 15
minutes for one month.
Dilate 3 times per day with #1, #2, #3 for 5, 10, 15 minutes for two months.
Dilate twice a day with #2, #3, #4, for 5, 10, 15 minutes for 3 months
Dilate once a day with #3, #4, for 5, 15 minutes for 6 months.
Slowly increase the interval of time between each dilation until you
reach one dilation per week with #4, for 15 minutes for the rest of
your life.
If you have difficulties with a bigger size dilator, wait before you
are comfortable with this one before using a bigger size. You can go
back to a smaller size and increase the frequency for a few days.
CARE FOR DILATORS
Wash the dilators after each use with non-abrasive antibacterial soap
in warm water and dry thoroughly. Do not wash them in the dishwasher
or clean with alcohol. This could damage them.
While at the convalescence home, the dilators are kept in Hibitane,
Dexidin 4 or Hiciclens 4 to find in pharmacy. 25ml of solution in
one gallon of demineralised water) Use one or the other solution.
After 2 months, store them in a clean and dry place between dilations.
In two months, stop: vaginal douche, soaking your dilators and sitz bath.
The Polysporin cream is for 10 days.
Maintain at least 2 hours intervals between dilations (from the time
you finish one and the time you do another one, 2 hours minimum.
Oh, I see. :) Yes, I definitely want the "Rim" look (very clean), which is why I am worried about choosing Suporn.
I do have two more questions: I've heard from someone that they personally know two people who have gone to Brassard and did not have good results. Do you know others who have gone to him and who are happy or unhappy with their results?
I truly want a functional vagina, but (as shallow-minded as this may sound), most importantly I want it to be pretty :D :P
Also, do you know his requirements for the surgery? Letters? RLF? HRT?
Please let me know. Thank you so very much for all your help :angel:
Quote from: daahrling on April 13, 2014, 09:19:35 PM
I see. Is the size of the clitoris and the hood within the normal female range, though? I've seen some (from other surgeons) that really look like the penis glans, which is very discouraging... Mine is of a normal cis size.
I am very confused about fourchettes, is it like a loose skin below the opening? I know what you are talking about in CIS but nothing that is normaly made in the Neo. Maybe something thing extra can be done.
What about scarring? Is it noticeable? Yes and no. Depends on healing.
Did it hurt to dilate? Is his schedule very vigorous? Dilations should not hurt, they are unpleasent but should not cause any real pain unless there is trouble. Size increase makes the most pain. But maybe it is just me?
There is one result here on Susans, do you think it is more like his recent or older work: https://www.susans.org/wiki/File:Post-op-vagina.jpg
He seems to do very neat work, like "Barbie" vaginas (http://urogyn.org/labiaplasty_barbie.html)
Sorry for the many questions. I really do appreciate any answers you can give me :)
If you contact his office, they'll send you the patient package with his requirements - I know what they were two years ago, but honestly, I'd recommend getting the up to date info from them directly. (They emailed me when I asked, so it was super easy on both ends.)
I was there with almost 2 dozen women during the week and a half and all at least said they were happy; I have another close friend who went with him and is content with the aesthetics and functionality but hasn't shared specific details.
Again, the size of the labia minora is a personal thing, but yes, I do hear that Suporn likes to make them larger and Brassard prefers small and tidy.
Quote from: daahrling on April 13, 2014, 09:47:35 PM
Oh, I see. :) Yes, I definitely want the "Rim" look (very clean), which is why I am worried about choosing Suporn.
I do have two more questions: I've heard from someone that they personally know two people who have gone to Brassard and did not have good results. Do you know others who have gone to him and who are happy or unhappy with their results?
I truly want a functional vagina, but (as shallow-minded as this may sound), most importantly I want it to be pretty :D :P
Also, do you know his requirements for the surgery? Letters? RLF? HRT?
Please let me know. Thank you so very much for all your help :angel:
Results are based on ones own expectaions. If you want natural 100% female you are going to be unhappy with who every you chose.
Lots have been unhappy with surgeons due to there own aftercare.
So comes down to expectaions. GCS is a art form, and in any art there can be difference from one to the next.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 13, 2014, 09:52:40 PM
If you contact his office, they'll send you the patient package with his requirements - I know what they were two years ago, but honestly, I'd recommend getting the up to date info from them directly. (They emailed me when I asked, so it was super easy on both ends.)
I was there with almost 2 dozen women during the week and a half and all at least said they were happy; I have another close friend who went with him and is content with the aesthetics and functionality but hasn't shared specific details.
Again, the size of the labia minora is a personal thing, but yes, I do hear that Suporn likes to make them larger and Brassard prefers small and tidy.
I just sent them an email today, hopefully they will answer soon :)
I know there is a lot of variation (both in cis and trans woman), but do you think I can achieve something like the "Rim" look with Brassard?
Someone sent me a PM that made me very worried, they said they have 2 friends who had results that weren't very natural ??? :'( Worried me a bit.
Quote from: mind is quiet now on April 13, 2014, 09:50:34 PM
Hi Isabell :) Do you think the scars are very noticeable, or only somewhat?
With size increase, do you mean in depth or in width?
Please let me know :)
I saw one result here on Susans that seemed pretty good, but I'm not sure (I'm attracted to men, so I don't really know what is considered natural or attractive in the vulva department :P)
Quote from: daahrling on April 13, 2014, 10:01:51 PM
I just sent them an email today, hopefully they will answer soon :)
I know there is a lot of variation (both in cis and trans woman), but do you think I can achieve something like the "Rim" look with Brassard?
Someone sent me a PM that made me very worried, they said they have 2 friends who had results that weren't very natural ??? :'( Worried me a bit.
Hi Isabell :) Do you think the scars are very noticeable, or only somewhat? I have on one side a spot that is a little larger then the rest, it was a spot that took longer to heal. The hair line covers almost all of the scar. It is only a year old and still is on the pink side. In time i feel it will be un noticable. I am happy.
With size increase, do you mean in depth or in width? Width, as you go up in dilator size
Please let me know :)
I saw one result here on Susans that seemed pretty good, but I'm not sure (I'm attracted to men, so I don't really know what is considered natural or attractive in the vulva department :P) Most men are only interested in one thing the most and has noting to do with looking for scars lol.
Any of the better know surgeons do a great job. If not they would not be around. It comes down to who you feel confortable with.
I tell anyone GCS is the easy part, after care is where you get the sucess. Everyone heals different and it is a part of life. Not everything is 100% perfict.
Isabell
Quote from: mind is quiet now on April 13, 2014, 10:12:10 PM
Any of the better know surgeons do a great job. If not they would not be around. It comes down to who you feel confortable with.
I tell anyone GCS is the easy part, after care is where you get the sucess. Everyone heals different and it is a part of life. Not everything is 100% perfict.
Isabell
I guess so. It is such a difficult choice. You can only do SRS once :o For me it really is between Suporn and Brassard though... With Brassard, I'm afraid of not having enough depth, while with Suporn I'm afraid of not having the cosmetic result I want (which is very clean and pink and small, more like what Brassard seems to do) Aaah, such a difficult choice! :'( :'(
Quote from: daahrling on April 13, 2014, 10:28:16 PM
I guess so. It is such a difficult choice. You can only do SRS once :o For me it really is between Suporn and Brassard though... With Brassard, I'm afraid of not having enough depth, while with Suporn I'm afraid of not having the cosmetic result I want (which is very clean and pink and small, more like what Brassard seems to do) Aaah, such a difficult choice! :'( :'(
Yes it is a huge choice one must make. and i think you would be happy with either of your choices. Also Dr. McGinn or Dr. Bowers in the states are also good choices.
I wish you the best. If you do decide to come here in Montreal let me know and would love to stop by and say hello.
Isabell
Quote from: mind is quiet now on April 13, 2014, 10:36:55 PM
Yes it is a huge choice one must make. and i think you would be happy with either of your choices. Also Dr. McGinn or Dr. Bowers in the states are also good choices.
I wish you the best. If you do decide to come here in Montreal let me know and would love to stop by and say hello.
Isabell
Indeed. I am not really a fan of McGinn's results (at least not the ones she has on her website), while Dr. Bowers seems to vary a lot. However, the results closest to the look I want ("Rim" or "Barbie"; http://urogyn.org/labiaplasty_rim.html) seem to be by Dr. Brassard. I think I will definitely at least have a personal consultation with him. Do you know if he shows pictures of his current results during them?
Please let me know. Thanks :) ;) :D
Quote from: daahrling on April 13, 2014, 10:48:14 PM
Indeed. I am not really a fan of McGinn's results (at least not the ones she has on her website), while Dr. Bowers seems to vary a lot. However, the results closest to the look I want ("Rim" or "Barbie"; http://urogyn.org/labiaplasty_rim.html) seem to be by Dr. Brassard. I think I will definitely at least have a personal consultation with him. Do you know if he shows pictures of his current results during them?
Please let me know. Thanks :) ;) :D
I think they have, i never asked being i know mine will be mine. Just like CIS no two are ever the same.
I think they will answer any special request if they feel it is possible.
Isabell
Quote from: mind is quiet now on April 13, 2014, 11:06:49 PM
I think they have, i never asked being i know mine will be mine. Just like CIS no two are ever the same.
I think they will answer any special request if they feel it is possible.
Isabell
Ah, I see. The only results from him I can find are on Anne's website and one result on Susan's. Do you know any where else I can find them?
Aesthetically, Suporn is probably the best but you have to wait at least 1 year to judge the final result, not after a couple of weeks. Hence ignore pictures of a couple of weeks post-op. Try to find pics of 1 year post-op patients.
At the other hand I gather you really have unrealistic expectations of a SRS. Suporn does not create pornstar pussies, but natural looking ones. Rimmed vaginas are unnatural and fake. They belong to the pornographic world and Suporn won't give you that.
LauraGirl : Considering I said I more or less look like that, that's kinda rude. I think there's a huge variation in cis vulvas; I've had girlfriends who looked like me, and I know *they* weren't surgically altered. Granted, the pictures on that plastic surgery web site are arranged to look as post-surgical/"fake" as possible to highlight the results, but there ARE cis women who have small or even absent inner labia naturally.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 14, 2014, 05:41:28 AM
LauraGirl : Considering I said I more or less look like that, that's kinda rude. I think there's a huge variation in cis vulvas; I've had girlfriends who looked like me, and I know *they* weren't surgically altered. Granted, the pictures on that plastic surgery web site are arranged to look as post-surgical/"fake" as possible to highlight the results, but there ARE cis women who have small or even absent inner labia naturally.
I have seen thousands of vaginas in real life during my gyne training. None are the same but as a transsexual, wishing a porn star vagina, is quite dangerous and might end in a huge disappointment. The problem is that many of us simply don't know how a natural vagina looks like. Hence they seek on the internet for 'examples' and they will find porno star vagina's. Subsequently dreaming of it whilst booking an SRS.
Be realistic! It is the only recommendation I would like to give. Save yourself a huge disappointment.
Quote from: daahrling on April 13, 2014, 11:14:35 PM
Ah, I see. The only results from him I can find are on Anne's website and one result on Susan's. Do you know any where else I can find them?
there's this very detailed thread in which a couple of suporn patients have recently shared their experiences, they seem to be very satisfied. i don't know if they'd be willing to show their results.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,162607.0.html
if you are from Brazil I guess that you are well endowed and that can be a problem with Suporn technique. Many patients complain about having buried penises, which can cause great pain with well endowed patients.
I cannot find any post-op pictures of Suporn after 1 year. The only website I found was his own, and of that blogger I pointed out. If anyone knows where else I might find any, I truly would be grateful.
Also, yes, I've heard of many people who were disappointed with him because of having "buried penises" (which was what I said would be unacceptable for me)
I think that Brassard might be able to give me a more "Rim" (or porn-star) look, as you call it, Laura. I think each person should want the best for themselves. "Realistic" = a very abstract concept. I recommend the movie Inception to understand what I mean :)
What I want is a very "clean" vagina.
Also, Jenna and Isabell (and any other girls who went to Brassard), someone said to me two things I'd like to ask you about regarding Brassard. They had two friends who had surgery with him, and they said both had a very firm and large outer labia, and a clitoris that was too large. They also said that inside it didn't feel very natural either. Do you think you also had this problem (even if temporarily?), or any of the girls you may know that went to him?
Thank you for any help. This is a really big decision and I want to know as much as I can :) ;D
LauraGirl : Honestly, this is why I don't want to post pics of myself; after two years, this is my *genitals,* and I don't want to see them criticized and picked apart for flaws. I agree with you that going into it with unrealistic expectations is likely to lead to disappointment, actually. But I've also visited sites with hundreds of pictures of cis vulvas (from women who are not porn stars, but moderators have previously requested that I not post links like that), and found quite a few that look like mine. My vulva is unique and does not look like an airbrushed porn pussy, and I do indeed have inner labia that tuck neatly inside the outer.
That's like claiming that because some women get breast implants that look "fake," all large-breasted cis women will look like that. Sometimes natural human variation covers the same ground other women have to pay for, in other words. :)
Daahrling : I did not have results like that, no. My outer labia are still a bit puffy but not firm at all, and as I said earlier, my clit is tiny. Inside feels natural NOW, after two years, but yes, it was tight and dry and rough/scarred at first. (That's unavoidable when it's still healing up from surgery.) At this point, at the risk of being indelicate, the vaginal texture, moistness, and even scent are within the range of what I've encountered on cis girlfriends. Other than that, I don't have details that specific from other friends who've used him.
Amusingly enough, there's another thread going on right now from a woman who wants large/long inner labia. I'd absolutely tell her to avoid Brassard! As you say, it's a matter of personal taste, and I don't think any surgeon is "wrong" simply for producing (in general) a look that isn't to someone's individual preference.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 14, 2014, 04:53:13 PM
LauraGirl : Honestly, this is why I don't want to post pics of myself; after two years, this is my *genitals,* and I don't want to see them criticized and picked apart for flaws. I agree with you that going into it with unrealistic expectations is likely to lead to disappointment, actually. But I've also visited sites with hundreds of pictures of cis vulvas (from women who are not porn stars, but moderators have previously requested that I not post links like that), and found quite a few that look like mine. My vulva is unique and does not look like an airbrushed porn pussy, and I do indeed have inner labia that tuck neatly inside the outer.
That's like claiming that because some women get breast implants that look "fake," all large-breasted cis women will look like that. Sometimes natural human variation covers the same ground other women have to pay for, in other words. :)
Daahrling : I did not have results like that, no. My outer labia are still a bit puffy but not firm at all, and as I said earlier, my clit is tiny. Inside feels natural NOW, after two years, but yes, it was tight and dry and rough/scarred at first. (That's unavoidable when it's still healing up from surgery.) At this point, at the risk of being indelicate, the vaginal texture, moistness, and even scent are within the range of what I've encountered on cis girlfriends. Other than that, I don't have details that specific from other friends who've used him.
Amusingly enough, there's another thread going on right now from a woman who wants large/long inner labia. I'd absolutely tell her to avoid Brassard! As you say, it's a matter of personal taste, and I don't think any surgeon is "wrong" simply for producing (in general) a look that isn't to someone's individual preference.
*hugs* Don't be mad, sometimes people can be offensive without knowing they are. Of course, there are those that seem to take pleasure in doing so, but I don't think that is the case of anyone here on this forum :)
Thank you for all your help. I know it must be really difficult to talk about something so private.
Truly, the closest SRS result I've seen was done by Yvon Menard: http://www.annelawrence.com/menard0206.html
I think it is pretty close to what I want, except that I'd like the entrance to the vagina to be pink as well. If I may ask, Jenna, do you know if this is possible?
Oh, no worries, I'm not mad. :) I know I WOULD be if I actually posted pics and people criticized them, though.
Actually, the outer labia on that result from Menard do in fact look very large and stiff. Mine are much more soft and "closed." But yes, I thought having the vaginal opening be pink was kind of a normal result in GRS, in fact? I dunno, but mine is definitely bright pink.reddish and moist looking. I also have the pink around the inside of the inner labia and clitoral hood, which I agree is a fantastic result in that photo - it all looks very natural. Oh, and you can sort of see the fourchette in that photo as well (the way the outer labia extend past the vaginal opening and then connect beneath it), so I guess Menard and therefore Brassard have been doing it for a while and I didn't realize. My scars look like that, too, although I let the hair grow so they're almost entirely hidden as well as largely faded.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 14, 2014, 06:16:53 PM
Oh, no worries, I'm not mad. :) I know I WOULD be if I actually posted pics and people criticized them, though.
Actually, the outer labia on that result from Menard do in fact look very large and stiff. Mine are much more soft and "closed." But yes, I thought having the vaginal opening be pink was kind of a normal result in GRS, in fact? I dunno, but mine is definitely bright pink.reddish and moist looking. I also have the pink around the inside of the inner labia and clitoral hood, which I agree is a fantastic result in that photo - it all looks very natural. Oh, and you can sort of see the fourchette in that photo as well (the way the outer labia extend past the vaginal opening and then connect beneath it), so I guess Menard and therefore Brassard have been doing it for a while and I didn't realize. My scars look like that, too, although I let the hair grow so they're almost entirely hidden as well as largely faded.
These were taken after 6 months. I think that the labia majora eventually gets softer, right? Is that pink similar to yours, or is yours more reddish? Excuse me for asking, but I've seen another one of his results and they looked rather red, and not so pink.
I've been looking at some results in Suporn's support group, and now I am definitely not sure if he is the one I want to do my surgery. I mean, he keeps the penis glans and you can clearly see it.
Does Brassard dissect the glans and only take part of it for the clitoris?
Also, Suporn seems to keep a lot of the erectile tissue sometimes, and it doesn't always look very good. I mean, it definitely makes the labia majora open by itself... but sometimes it is too much. As far as I know, Brassard takes out that tissue, correct?
*sigh* I wish there was technology to use stem cells for this surgery. Some results I've seen really scare me, while others give me some hope. But it's a lottery.
Sad part it comes down to your material that can be used.
Each of us has our own bodies and the way they heal, what is dark on me might be darker on you or lighter.
As said here and other posts I think no matter who you use you are going to be disappointed.
You seem to be hung up on a designer vagina but do you have what is needed ?
Calm down. It is a surgery of art and no two brush strokes are the same.
Isabell
Quote from: mind is quiet now on April 14, 2014, 06:37:11 PM
Sad part it comes down to you material that can be used.
Each of us has our own bodies and the way they heal, what is dark on me might be darker on you or lighter.
As said here and other posts I think no matter who you use you are going to be disappointed.
You seem to be hung up on a designer vagina but do you have what is needed ?
Calm down. It is a surgery of art.
Isabell
Maybe, but I have seen a couple of results I think I could be fairly happy with :) ;D
LOL I don't really know what is needed for a designer vagina
I'm pretty young and uncircumcised, I think maybe that helps? I hope so :)
I don't know how it works for other people - those 2 girls you said still had the labia very firm? - but mine were pretty soft from the beginning. (I also had a lot of swelling, so I might not be typical. I have no idea.)
Mine is mostly pink at the exterior of the vaginal opening, and reddish as it shades into the vaginal canal itself. Again, that's normal, or at least common with cis women. I haven't actually seen a cis vagina up close that was more pink than red, though maybe that's a feature of a woman's coloring or the difficulty lighting in there or something. A gynecologist and their lights they can shine up in there would have a better idea. ;) The inner labia and clitoral hood are definitely very similar to that soft pink in the photo, though.
I'm sorry, but I don't know how else to tell you that my clitoris is *tiny.* Like 1/20th the size my penis glans was. I have to assume Brassard preserved only a small portion of the glans, but I honestly have no way of telling precisely how he did it; I do know that his operation instructions say he retains ALL of the nerves of the glans, though, concentrated into that small area. I have no erectile tissue that I can find except around the clitoris, which is fine by me, and matches a cis woman. (There might be a slight bit in the labia, I suppose. If so, I can't find or notice it.)
I actually agree with Isabell... it's possible to get too hung up on this stuff. I can pretty much promise you that once you're done, what you have is YOURS; after a few months, I started regarding my vulva as something that's unique and which I didn't have much control over, but have come to love. Cis women don't get a choice in what they get, after all. Some do go in for surgery to fix it, yeah, but a lot don't.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 14, 2014, 06:42:34 PM
I don't know how it works for other people - those 2 girls you said still had the labia very firm? - but mine were pretty soft from the beginning. (I also had a lot of swelling, so I might not be typical. I have no idea.)
Mine is mostly pink at the exterior of the vaginal opening, and reddish as it shades into the vaginal canal itself. Again, that's normal, or at least common with cis women. I haven't actually seen a cis vagina up close that was more pink than red, though maybe that's a feature of a woman's coloring or the difficulty lighting in there or something. A gynecologist and their lights they can shine up in there would have a better idea. ;) The inner labia and clitoral hood are definitely very similar to that soft pink in the photo, though.
I'm sorry, but I don't know how else to tell you that my clitoris is *tiny.* Like 1/20th the size my penis glans was. I have to assume Brassard preserved only a small portion of the glans, but I honestly have no way of telling precisely how he did it; I do know that his operation instructions say he retains ALL of the nerves of the glans, though, concentrated into that small area. I have no erectile tissue that I can find except around the clitoris, which is fine by me, and matches a cis woman. (There might be a slight bit in the labia, I suppose. If so, I can't find or notice it.)
I actually agree with Isabell... it's possible to get too hung up on this stuff. I can pretty much promise you that once you're done, what you have is YOURS; after a few months, I started regarding my vulva as something that's unique and which I didn't have much control over, but have come to love. Cis women don't get a choice in what they get, after all. Some do go in for surgery to fix it, yeah, but a lot don't.
Did Brassard ask you at all what you wanted your vulva to look like? Small or big clitoris, small or big lips...?
True, it just seems like this is a lottery. It is very unfair :( Some girls have such great and natural results, while others... well, not so much :-\ :'( :(
He did ask. I told him I wanted a normal-sized clitoris and was happy to leave the rest up to him. He said I had sufficient material for pretty much anything within reason, but honestly, I didn't have strong opinions beyond "want it to be as sensate and cis-looking as possible."
Quote from: daahrling on April 14, 2014, 06:46:19 PM
Did Brassard ask you at all what you wanted your vulva to look like? Small or big clitoris, small or big lips...?
True, it just seems like this is a lottery. It is very unfair :( Some girls have such great and natural results, while others... well, not so much :-\ :'( :(
Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.
If you want a larger labia minora he does have a second surgery for extra charge.
Izzy
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 14, 2014, 06:51:48 PM
He did ask. I told him I wanted a normal-sized clitoris and was happy to leave the rest up to him. He said I had sufficient material for pretty much anything within reason, but honestly, I didn't have strong opinions beyond "want it to be as sensate and cis-looking as possible."
Ah, yes, I see. I guess I will just have to go to Montreal and have an appointment with him *sigh* It is so difficult when something so essential to us is left uncertain :'(
Quote from: mind is quiet now on April 14, 2014, 06:54:45 PM
Beauty is truly in the eye of the beholder.
If you want a larger labia minora he does have a second surgery for extra charge.
Izzy
I want a labia minora that is very pink and slender, with the vagina surrounded by it.
I thought Brassard did revisions for free (as long as the patient was his in the first place, of course)?
Quote from: daahrling on April 14, 2014, 07:07:02 PM
Ah, yes, I see. I guess I will just have to go to Montreal and have an appointment with him *sigh* It is so difficult when something so essential to us is left uncertain :'(
I want a labia minora that is very pink and slender, with the vagina surrounded by it.
I thought Brassard did revisions for free (as long as the patient was his in the first place, of course)?
Larger labia other then what he does in the single step is extra. All the doctors charge now if you want larger inner labias.
Izzy
Quote from: mind is quiet now on April 14, 2014, 07:10:00 PM
Larger labia other then what he does in the single step is extra. All the doctors charge now if you want large inner labias.
Izzy
I think what I want is considered small. By the way how does he make the inner labia bigger? Doesn't he use the urethra for that in SRS? I'm very confused now. What about foreskin? Do you know what he uses it for?
Okay, so I contacted the clinic (Brassard's) and they sent me some pictures of his results. Some of them seem really nice. Probably much more than Suporn's (his secondary sensate organ [penis glans] always gives the surgery away I think)
But then there is the issue of depth and sensation. Not my sensation, but my partner's. I wonder if inside the vagina also feels natural?
Don't worry about your partner sensations... It feels more tight then genetic one :)
Quote from: Angelized on April 16, 2014, 02:33:17 AM
Don't worry about your partner sensations... It feels more tight then genetic one :)
Oh, so I've heard :angel:
But what about the *texture*? Like, in genetic woman isn't the vagina more like the mouth? With some bumps? Or is it dependent on the woman?
If I may ask, what surgeon did you have your surgery with? :)
(I answered this one earlier - I know I've posted a lot, so it's easy to miss.)
My vagina gets wet it is just it is extra tight and most of my partners have been very well endowed. None has said anything but they like the size..... I used Dr Chettawut
Ah, I see :)
So, I contacted the clinic and they sent me some photos of results and some info. I sent them back some questions, hopefully they will answer soon ;D :D
They're so much more bureaucratic though. 2 letters, one from someone with a master's degree and one with a PhD, or something like that. Plus one from an endocrinologist. Ah, Canadians! :police: :P
Okay, so, their reply was very vague, if anyone knows the answers to these questions I'd appreciate it.
1. Are dilators included in the total price?
2. What is the minimum and maximum depth of the vagina that can be achieved?
3. If a revision were to be needed, would it be done for free or would it have to be paid for?
4. In the case of a personal consultation with Dr. Brassard in Montreal, can he attest to whether or not hair removal is needed in order to have a hair-free vagina?
5. Is traveling by plane recommended only 6 days after the surgery?
6. Is there a minimum or maximum BMI (body mass index) needed in order to have the surgery?
Yes, dilators are included, the full set of four.
Depends on your material and the amount of room in your torso - there's a point beyond which most surgeons cannot go, which limits depth (but it's usually plenty, and the same is true for cis women anyway).
Revisions are free for the first year; paid thereafter.
Brassard recommends strongly AGAINST hair removal for everyone; that's actually in their standard info packet, or used to be.
Don't know.
They told me he had no BMI limit but preferred a lower weight than I currently was, but nobody actually said anything to me once I got there and it wasn't an issue.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 17, 2014, 07:25:36 PM
Yes, dilators are included, the full set of four.
Depends on your material and the amount of room in your torso - there's a point beyond which most surgeons cannot go, which limits depth (but it's usually plenty, and the same is true for cis women anyway).
Revisions are free for the first year; paid thereafter.
Brassard recommends strongly AGAINST hair removal for everyone; that's actually in their standard info packet, or used to be.
Don't know.
They told me he had no BMI limit but preferred a lower weight than I currently was, but nobody actually said anything to me once I got there and it wasn't an issue.
Thanks for the reply :) ;D
So, regarding depth, did Dr. Brassard tell you around what he could give you when you had a consultation with him?
His secretary did send me a document talking about hair removal (and that it is not recommended), but that it is not guaranteed that all hair will be removed during surgery. I have heard of two girls who went to him and had hair inside later (they did say they were his last patients before his winter vacation, so, that could have to do with it)... Did you have any problems with hair Jenna?
In my case, my BMI mostly stays around 18.5, but I want to be sure in case it goes a bit under that I can still have the surgery.
Please let me know. Thanks :) ;D
He did, yes, and I got precisely the 5.5" he promised.
I had no hair removal before, and zero problems with hair regrowth after. His materials also say that unless you get the hair removal *finished* a minimum of a year before the surgery date, you're actually making it MORE likely that he'll miss some hair follicles and it will regrow...
Oh, you're talking about being *under* in terms of BMI - that I do not know. You might have to ask directly.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 17, 2014, 09:15:00 PM
He did, yes, and I got precisely the 5.5" he promised.
I had no hair removal before, and zero problems with hair regrowth after. His materials also say that unless you get the hair removal *finished* a minimum of a year before the surgery date, you're actually making it MORE likely that he'll miss some hair follicles and it will regrow...
Oh, you're talking about being *under* in terms of BMI - that I do not know. You might have to ask directly.
Ah, I see :) I will probably have a consultation with him before deciding, even though I really don't want to get on a long flight just for 15 minutes with him.
Something that does seem strange to me, though, is that he is able to perform the surgery in less than 3 hours, whereas Thai surgeons usually take at least 5. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. :P
By the way, does he recommend using a cream inside the vagina (like Premarin or Estrace) or a ring (like Estring or Femring) at all?
He didn't recommend a cream when I was there. I think that is generally an issue a few months later, after most people are done asking him for advice. :) My gyno recommended switching to Vagisil lube b/c it's closest to natural lubrication, but that's all; I haven't needed anything medicated.
I believe he manages those operation times b/c he works with a partner. And assuming the results are as good (in general), the shorter the operation time the better; it's best not to be under anesthetic or in that stirrups position for too long. I know of at least one woman who ended up with loss of circulation to both legs after an 8-10-hour operation, and nearly lost her legs to it. (She's fine now, thank goodness.)
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 18, 2014, 01:50:20 PM
He didn't recommend a cream when I was there. I think that is generally an issue a few months later, after most people are done asking him for advice. :) My gyno recommended switching to Vagisil lube b/c it's closest to natural lubrication, but that's all; I haven't needed anything medicated.
I believe he manages those operation times b/c he works with a partner. And assuming the results are as good (in general), the shorter the operation time the better; it's best not to be under anesthetic or in that stirrups position for too long. I know of at least one woman who ended up with loss of circulation to both legs after an 8-10-hour operation, and nearly lost her legs to it. (She's fine now, thank goodness.)
Wow that's *extremely* scary! :'( I am glad she is fine now, that really is a very dangerous thing to happen.
Great thread Daahrling - one that I would have started myself as I'm also wanting to have SRS in the coming year and feel torn between Suporn (also potentially Kamol..who I've heard good things about and actually hear a lot of Brasilian girls go to him..would you agree?) and Brassard.
I'd say aesthetics for me are very important as they are for you...also scar placement...which from what I've heard and seen, seem to be better hidden and less noticeable in Suporn results, as he makes the incisions along the crease of the inner thigh. Brassard on the other hand seems to make 2 horse-shoe shape incisions either side of the innier labia. I'd love to hear from some Brassard girls who can confirm how these scars fade over time and if they do remain quite noticeable if you're shaved down there. I'm not someone would would want a lot of hair growth down there after the op so hair coverage alone to cover the scars wouldn't be good enough for me personally.
I agree with you that finding photos (from any surgeon) is a big quest - with many girls not being willing to share pictures of their result. I'd like to say that I understand that..and in some cases I do...but I can honestly say, when I do choose a surgeon and go through with the op, I'll have no problem showing my results to others if it helps them make their decision. The only reason I can think of that I'd be unwilling to show my photos would be if it was a less than good result that maybe I was embarassed about. But yeah, it seems most Suporn and Brassard girls are delighted with their results...so I just wish more girls shared :D So yes, it is a little frustrating that finding pictures seems so difficult at a time when so many people undergo SRS..especially of Suporn (most of his can only be found on his site and of course it's easy to think that surely only the best results would be put on his site so may not give the most accurate representation of a 'typical' result). I managed to find a few on the Dr_S Club yahoo group and Trans-surgery Yahoo group but apart from there, nothing at all. And as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Brassard results on the AnneLawrence site are very out of date sadly.
I suppose in terms of the most simple and apparent differences, as many know I'm sure, Suporn's results always tend to be a lot 'fleshier' with a lot more labia (particularly inner labia) going on...whereas Brassard's results seem a lot smaller, neater. Personally I prefer the neater look with smaller inner labia for my taste but a couple of photos I saw of Brassard's results were a little odd-looking..so I'm constantly going back and forth between who I think is my top choice. Obviously, Suporn's longer (and often more painful) recovery is a big consideration but from what I've learnt, his sensation is second to none (beating even Brassard? of course this is debatable) so as time's gone on, I've started to drift a little more towards Suporn as I think to myself, well, if the sensation and depth are there then maybe it makes more sense to go to Suporn and then use another surgeon for a labiaplasty to get the aesthetics more in line with our own taste. Depth of course is another of Suporn's talents of course...and he can regularly offer 7 inches of depth, sometimes a little more. Even though I'm not a bad size and uncircumsized so would probably get decent depth with Brassard too...altho a good depth by Brassard's standards (confirmed in the email I got back from his assistant a while ago) would be 6 inches. Now I know 6 inches isn't bad...but ... there are a lot of guys out there with longer than 6 inches and for me...a guy bottoming out and reaching the end too soon during penetration would be a big negative for me. I know we're all different and for some that wouldn't be a priority at all. Then you have lots of girls in various forums that say that the average natal vagina is around 5 inches, etc etc...but the scientific reality is, a 4 or 5 inch natal vagina not only increases in length during arousal, but during penetration itself is able to stretch considerably and get much longer...whereas neo-vaginas cannot. So in that sense getting the maximum depth possibly, I think, is very important if this is a consideration.
So yes, those are my thoughts at the moment and why perhaps I'm leaning more towards Suporn at this moment in time but I'm still far from decided 100% and will probably sway back and forth a few times before I make a final decision!
Great thread though as I said..and I'll be following this with a lot of interest!
Gigi
Quote from: Gigi_J on April 22, 2014, 08:55:48 AM
Great thread Daahrling - one that I would have started myself as I'm also wanting to have SRS in the coming year and feel torn between Suporn (also potentially Kamol..who I've heard good things about and actually hear a lot of Brasilian girls go to him..would you agree?) and Brassard.
I'd say aesthetics for me are very important as they are for you...also scar placement...which from what I've heard and seen, seem to be better hidden and less noticeable in Suporn results, as he makes the incisions along the crease of the inner thigh. Brassard on the other hand seems to make 2 horse-shoe shape incisions either side of the innier labia. I'd love to hear from some Brassard girls who can confirm how these scars fade over time and if they do remain quite noticeable if you're shaved down there. I'm not someone would would want a lot of hair growth down there after the op so hair coverage alone to cover the scars wouldn't be good enough for me personally.
I agree with you that finding photos (from any surgeon) is a big quest - with many girls not being willing to share pictures of their result. I'd like to say that I understand that..and in some cases I do...but I can honestly say, when I do choose a surgeon and go through with the op, I'll have no problem showing my results to others if it helps them make their decision. The only reason I can think of that I'd be unwilling to show my photos would be if it was a less than good result that maybe I was embarassed about. But yeah, it seems most Suporn and Brassard girls are delighted with their results...so I just wish more girls shared :D So yes, it is a little frustrating that finding pictures seems so difficult at a time when so many people undergo SRS..especially of Suporn (most of his can only be found on his site and of course it's easy to think that surely only the best results would be put on his site so may not give the most accurate representation of a 'typical' result). I managed to find a few on the Dr_S Club yahoo group and Trans-surgery Yahoo group but apart from there, nothing at all. And as someone mentioned earlier in this thread, the Brassard results on the AnneLawrence site are very out of date sadly.
I suppose in terms of the most simple and apparent differences, as many know I'm sure, Suporn's results always tend to be a lot 'fleshier' with a lot more labia (particularly inner labia) going on...whereas Brassard's results seem a lot smaller, neater. Personally I prefer the neater look with smaller inner labia for my taste but a couple of photos I saw of Brassard's results were a little odd-looking..so I'm constantly going back and forth between who I think is my top choice. Obviously, Suporn's longer (and often more painful) recovery is a big consideration but from what I've learnt, his sensation is second to none (beating even Brassard? of course this is debatable) so as time's gone on, I've started to drift a little more towards Suporn as I think to myself, well, if the sensation and depth are there then maybe it makes more sense to go to Suporn and then use another surgeon for a labiaplasty to get the aesthetics more in line with our own taste. Depth of course is another of Suporn's talents of course...and he can regularly offer 7 inches of depth, sometimes a little more. Even though I'm not a bad size and uncircumsized so would probably get decent depth with Brassard too...altho a good depth by Brassard's standards (confirmed in the email I got back from his assistant a while ago) would be 6 inches. Now I know 6 inches isn't bad...but ... there are a lot of guys out there with longer than 6 inches and for me...a guy bottoming out and reaching the end too soon during penetration would be a big negative for me. I know we're all different and for some that wouldn't be a priority at all. Then you have lots of girls in various forums that say that the average natal vagina is around 5 inches, etc etc...but the scientific reality is, a 4 or 5 inch natal vagina not only increases in length during arousal, but during penetration itself is able to stretch considerably and get much longer...whereas neo-vaginas cannot. So in that sense getting the maximum depth possibly, I think, is very important if this is a consideration.
So yes, those are my thoughts at the moment and why perhaps I'm leaning more towards Suporn at this moment in time but I'm still far from decided 100% and will probably sway back and forth a few times before I make a final decision!
Great thread though as I said..and I'll be following this with a lot of interest!
Gigi
Yes, Kamol is extremely popular here (Lea T had her surgery with him, which made him even more famous). He and Suporn are the most talked-about surgeons in Brazil, whereas Brassard (and other North American surgeons) remain practically unknown...
Personally, I don't see scars as much of a problem because of laser technology available today. Also, I don't scar very easily, and do heal very well. Plus, many women who have had hysterectomies, and those who shave (or tried shaving...), have scars.
I've seen both good and bad Suporn results, however the only *truly* 100% results I've seen came from Brassard (aesthetically). For example: http://tarasresources.net/vulva.htm ... (and that one was in 2001).
All of Suporn results on the Dr_s club and trans-surgery yahoo group *really* scare me. I mean, I could never be content with any of those. Just couldn't. Same goes for the ones on Kamol's webpage. There are two on Suporn's website that I consider to be good.
There are really two things that may keep me from Brassard (I hope they don't): depth and hair growth. I need to know I'll have at least 6 inches of depth and no hair growth in the vagina. I plan on having a personal consultation with him before deciding on my surgeon in order to discuss this.
Also, 6 inches is pretty average depth (in cis woman). With HRT and arousal, I've read that the vagina may be able to expand an inch during intercourse. Plus, the positions you choose definitely make a difference during sex.
I know it is a very difficult. I recommend you at least pay a visit to Brassard before making such a life-changing choice.
My best regards :)
And God bless you!
(Actually, the Masters and Johnson study that's most often cited says that vaginal depth in cis women averaged 2.75-3.25 inches when unaroused and 4.25 inches to 4.75 inches as a *maximum* depth when aroused. They didn't find much additional length during penetration, although width could increase somewhat. That would make 5" adequate and 6" generous. Penises are more compressible than dilators and also attached to people, too; very, very few men can get 100% of their erect length into a vagina, thanks to things like bodies getting in the way.)
(From Wikipedia): 'With sexual arousal, the human vagina lengthens rapidly,[16] to an average of about 4 in.(10 cm), but can continue to lengthen in response to pressure. As the woman becomes fully aroused, the vagina tents (last ²⁄₃) expands in length and width, while the cervix retracts. The elastic walls of the vagina stretch or contract, with support from the pelvic muscles, to the size of the inserted penis or other object,[16]...'
So yes, I was a bit out with the average 'resting' natal vagina length. Though it's fair to say (many sources confirm it), that in response to pressure, the natal vagina lengthens considerably as well as widens. Whilst I agree penises compress and aren't rock hard like dilators, it's fair to say the length given thru SRS cannot expand any further than what is given, unlike natal vaginas. As someone who's never penetrated a woman, I can't speak from personal experience..but I've seen a lot of porn in my time (naughty I know!) and very rarely have I seen penetration where even larger guys bottom out after 4 or 5 inches and unable to enter fully (in those positions where this is possible obviously). This ability, on the whole, to accomodate longer guys has also been confirmed many times by interesting (:P) chats with my own mother and many girlfriends.
Quote from: daahrling on April 22, 2014, 10:22:28 AM
Yes, Kamol is extremely popular here (Lea T had her surgery with him, which made him even more famous). He and Suporn are the most talked-about surgeons in Brazil, whereas Brassard (and other North American surgeons) remain practically unknown...
Personally, I don't see scars as much of a problem because of laser technology available today. Also, I don't scar very easily, and do heal very well. Plus, many women who have had hysterectomies, and those who shave (or tried shaving...), have scars.
I've seen both good and bad Suporn results, however the only *truly* 100% results I've seen came from Brassard (aesthetically). For example: http://tarasresources.net/vulva.htm ... (and that one was in 2001).
All of Suporn results on the Dr_s club and trans-surgery yahoo group *really* scare me. I mean, I could never be content with any of those. Just couldn't. Same goes for the ones on Kamol's webpage. There are two on Suporn's website that I consider to be good.
There are really two things that may keep me from Brassard (I hope they don't): depth and hair growth. I need to know I'll have at least 6 inches of depth and no hair growth in the vagina. I plan on having a personal consultation with him before deciding on my surgeon in order to discuss this.
Also, 6 inches is pretty average depth (in cis woman). With HRT and arousal, I've read that the vagina may be able to expand an inch during intercourse. Plus, the positions you choose definitely make a difference during sex.
I know it is a very difficult. I recommend you at least pay a visit to Brassard before making such a life-changing choice.
My best regards :)
And God bless you!
I didn't spot your post until now! Ooooh OK, I'm quite new on this forum so I don't know of Lea T yet...I'll take a look around and see if I can find any of her threads - thanks for that.
Good point about the scarring - they can be improved with laser...but that takes a long time from what I hear and I suppose depending on the severity of the scarring, may not disappear completely - depends on our own personal way of scarring I guess too. I know after my trachea shave (in which Dr. Bart slipped with his scalpel and actually gave me an accidental second incision just below his main incision and right above the adam's apple area...yea, not good when your TS and don't want any attention drawn to that area!) that my scars, though not really bad, aren't great either so yeah for me scarring is still a consideration.
I must say I actually quite liked a couple of Suporn's results on the yahoo groups. Guess that's where personal taste matters. As for Brassard, I've seen some great results (including that link you showed me..looks great...but the pics are small...really hard to see in any detail)..and a couple of very strange looking results..though as we said, we haven't found loads. When I received a reply from Dr. Brassard's assistant, she attached about 5 post-op results. To me, that's not really good enough considering he must have performed many hundreds. I think sending a fair few more would put our mind at ease in terms of seeing general results and not just a few handpicked 'perfect' ones. I also read on several forums that you can book a consultation with Brassard but you're no more likely to get to see any more photo results than those few they can send by email...and that a consultation with him is very short. I'm in England so I don't think I could justify a long trip to Canada for half an hour discussing his procedure and not seeing any more results. Ideally I'd love to meet a couple of women who have used either of them to be able to meet in the flesh and possibly see their result in person but finding people willing to do that hasn't been easy at all.
As for a neo-vagina being able to expand an inch or so during arousal, I've never heard that myself...I'd love that to be the case though :D
Good luck if you do decide to have a consultation with Dr. Brassard and let us know how it goes - maybe I can be swayed into going to see him myself!
Gigi
Quote from: dejan160 on April 14, 2014, 10:00:26 AM
if you are from Brazil I guess that you are well endowed and that can be a problem with Suporn technique. Many patients complain about having buried penises, which can cause great pain with well endowed patients.
I already asked this questions in another thread, but what does well endowed mean? Penis size of 6,8,10 inches when erected? Or even testicle/scrotum size? I have no comparison for what I've down there... :-\
I was planning to go with Suporn, but this "bulge" thing bothers me now...
Honestly I am in doubt about this well-endowed issues. Maybe it's a YMMV thing. There was a certain well-endowed ts pornstar(i dont know if i can give her name here) who has gone to suporn almost 7 years ago. Her result is one of the most reassuring and well-made vagina I have seen from Suporn's work(also the ones on his site and that downloadable file contains many good results). And she was pretty big herself. I have also seen her performance with the vagina, everything looked great.
I watched one of PrincessJoules's videos, this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRP8m0W8jJ0 , and the short stay in the hospital really scares me, I don't wanna be flying back when I am still in pain. Suporn likes to keep his patients a lot longer so that they can recover more before they go home.
Don't forget that with Brassard, after the 2-3 day hospital stay there is another week in the recovery residence. She had a hard time, and I sympathize with her, but... most of the women I was there with were not in serious pain by the time we were all ready to leave. Suporn keeps people longer, but his site also says something about a longer/harder recovery time than inversion, too. I think a lot of it varies by individual, and she seems to have had an extra tough time of it; one woman who was operated on the same day I was never took any painkillers but Tylenol, and had stopped even that by day 6! (I was amazed.)
Quote from: JessikaBlackMage on May 23, 2014, 03:27:09 AM
I watched one of PrincessJoules's videos, this one , and the short stay in the hospital really scares me, I don't wanna be flying back when I am still in pain. Suporn likes to keep his patients a lot longer so that they can recover more before they go home.
Scary but to be honest, for anyone sane GRS has got to be scary, far more so than FFS in terms of both the risk and the consquences of complications. I'm still going to do it but will be keeping myself very busy right up until D-Day so that I don't have too much time to dwell on it. That doesn't mean I haven't thought about it properly. I think I have but I still know I'm going to be one very scared lady in the hours or even days before the surgery. At little less than 3 months to go...
Quote from: Jenna Marie on May 23, 2014, 09:14:33 AM
Don't forget that with Brassard, after the 2-3 day hospital stay there is another week in the recovery residence. She had a hard time, and I sympathize with her, but... most of the women I was there with were not in serious pain by the time we were all ready to leave. Suporn keeps people longer, but his site also says something about a longer/harder recovery time than inversion, too. I think a lot of it varies by individual, and she seems to have had an extra tough time of it; one woman who was operated on the same day I was never took any painkillers but Tylenol, and had stopped even that by day 6! (I was amazed.)
Everyone has there own pain tolerances. One girl same time as me just could not handle the pain at all. She had a hard time for sure.
Me I took 1 pain pill a day at night up to the day the surgical dressing removed (day 4) That I was soooooo glad to get removed.
Took tylenol after then. I had a script for 20 pain pills at home and used 2 total and that was more for my back went out.
So everyone is there own. Each do what you need to manage pain. One older sister told me we are not super women.
Izzy
Brassards Website is horrible though , I have trouble reading the text because it's too small and it uses flash so there is no way to make it bigger.
Hi Everyone,
I've been wanting this surgery since I was 14 and I'm 59 now. Hey, I had a lot of things to do, lol! Like get strung out on heroin for 13 years, go to prison twice and innumerable times in L.A. County Jail, etc. All the good things in life. I finally have the money and the opportunity to have GRS, and I was very interested in Dr. Suporn and still am, especially if it's true about his technique not needing a large amount of penile material, as I was rather small down there. Probably 5 inches erect when I used to use it, and that hasn't been for years. I also have my testicles up inside me, and that began years before I started HRT. Consequently, I can tuck so well I can wear a bikini without any problem. (But I don't because I'm too fat for one!) I was born intersexed but didn't know it until recently. What I'm saying is that I don't have a great deal of genital material to start out with. With my testis not hanging, my scrotal tissue is thicker and very pliable, but I'm just hoping there's enough material to get the job done. One last thing, does anyone know the protocol on Hepatitis C? I have it but my viral load is in the high normal range and I'm going to start on the anti-hep C drug regimen right after I return and am healed. I really need answers, and I'm not as worried about the beauty aspect of my vagina, but the guy I'm with puts up with the fact that I don't have a vagina, but he's straight and how I landed him I'm still shocked. The reason why I'm leaning heavily toward Suporn because of the sexual aspects of his technique and guaranteed results of 6" but claims of average 7" between 2010-2013. I enjoy sex and plan to enjoy it for a long while. Also, could anyone tell me Dr Brassard's costs? Thank you. hugs, Mira
Hi,
I am not sure if this is too late to post - But I am two months post op with Dr. B and would be willing to share photos if needed! Just drop me a pm C:
Quote from: JessikaBlackMage
I watched one of PrincessJoules's videos, and the short stay in the hospital really scares me, I don't wanna be flying back when I am still in pain. Suporn likes to keep his patients a lot longer so that they can recover more before they go home.
i've been following her post op videos as well. she also complains about the big scars left along her labia majora.
Quote from: jenn90210 on October 03, 2014, 01:18:39 AM
i've been following her post op videos as well. she also complains about the big scars left along her labia majora.
Hmm I didn't recall seeing those, but maybe because she showed me the still bruised kitty on her tiny iphone screen. Maybe I'll ask her again if she wants to show me how the scars looked like.
I stopped being in serious pain a couple days before I left... And while I had the big scars along the labia majora, mine faded to pink and then white and are now basically invisible (if I shaved, someone with a bright light up close might see it, but otherwise nope). It took a couple years, though. Scars/incisions are always going to be a lot more obvious immediately post-op. Any surgeon who can guarantee this with *no* possible scarring is a literal wizard. ;)
Quote from: mrs izzy on April 13, 2014, 10:36:55 PM
I wish you the best. If you do decide to come here in Montreal let me know and would love to stop by and say hello.
Isabell
hello im doing my srs in october 12 2016 with dr brassard in montreal... i wouldnt mind making new friends :)