(this is not in response to posts but backstage stuff)
I should never talk. Or type. I can't open my mouth or keyboard without unknowingly pissing someone off or hurting one of my friends.
So, going silent now.
Sorry everybody. I was just trying to vent about family issues that came up last night. But I guess I can't even open my mouth or keyboard without pissing everyone off. So forget it. I'll go back to being the shadow admin you never hear from.
You made a blanket statement regarding gender roles and expectations on a site where people have a plethora of emotions relating to those things, and they responded accordingly. You asked for opinions, and got them. And now we're on yet another thread about the problems FA has that warrant enough thought to post highly charged statements, but not enough for you to ever actually bring up the issues, just make it all about how much we don't get it, and just want to attack you, because we get upset over such petty things as "men who are virgins at 25 are worthless pussies" and "women over 25 are inherently useless to society." Stop making us deal with the fallout of your breakdown if you're not willing to let us either try and help you, or at least defend our own existences.
Quote from: KatVonDoom on April 19, 2014, 03:52:33 PM
You made a blanket statement regarding gender roles and expectations on a site where people have a plethora of emotions relating to those things, and they responded accordingly. You asked for opinions, and got them. And now we're on yet another thread about the problems FA has that warrant enough thought to post highly charged statements, but not enough for you to ever actually bring up the issues, just make it all about how much we don't get it, and just want to attack you, because we get upset over such petty things as "men who are virgins at 25 are worthless pussies" and "women over 25 are inherently useless to society." Stop making us deal with the fallout of your breakdown if you're not willing to let us either try and help you, or at least defend our own existences.
Well, I do feel attacked. Maybe I just don't word things right. But how am I supposed to word them? I don't mind at all anyone trying to help me or defend their existences.
Be diplomatic, for christ's sake! You want to talk about gender roles for women? Don't use phrases like "honestly, if you made it to being a man over thirty, are you going to jack off to a twenty year old or a forty year old?" and paint it as a critique of society, when that comment wasn't made by society, it was made by you. Take some damn responsibility for propagating the problems with gender roles and expectations for yourself by continuing to paint the world that way, instead of being the damn change. All men think that way? Then stop thinking that way. Boom. There's one man that doesn't. If you insist on clinging to ideals that have been directly responsible for an immense amount of pain for our community, don't act shocked when those wounds get torn back open and people get emotional.
Quote from: FA on April 19, 2014, 03:45:09 PM
(this is not in response to posts but backstage stuff)
I should never talk. Or type. I can't open my mouth or keyboard without unknowingly pissing someone off or hurting one of my friends.
So, going silent now.
Sorry everybody. I was just trying to vent about family issues that came up last night. But I guess I can't even open my mouth or keyboard without pissing everyone off. So forget it. I'll go back to being the shadow admin you never hear from.
Kia Ora FA,
Sadly the problem is some tend to take things out of context and
personally...
I read your posts and 'know' where you're at, and I also know that
"This too will pass"...
:icon_hug: :icon_hug:
Metta Anatta :)
FA your pain is at agony level or beyond, you know I know that. Post as you wish to get the help you need.
For others if FA's posts are too much for you leave them be and ignore them. If they hurt you, do not read them.
This is a support site and a member is hurting so much he is crying.
Try and see that.
I do understand everyones point of view about this and I am not dismissing your concerns.
Cindy
Quote from: FA on April 19, 2014, 03:58:17 PM
Maybe I just don't word things right. But how am I supposed to word them?
You seem to be making blanket statements based on your personal experience/belief and dressing them up as irrefutable fact. When you make generalisations like "women over 26 have nothing to live for" (or whatever it is) it flies in the face of hundreds of millions of women over that age who in fact are having fulfilled lives, it's also insulting and extremely upsetting for those of us arriving "late to the party".
Have you drawn your conclusions about the world and retreated from it, ignoring anything that might contradict your views? I don't say that to attack, I'm deeply concerned for you FA, you appear to be hurting and distressed about a whole range of things but you can't seem to discuss them without blaming social constructs. It is possible to see and discuss the flaws of society without being constrained or pinned down by them.
If you must make blanket statements and generalisations please understand they don't apply to many of us and we refuse to be smothered by them. :)
Perhaps because I was born and raised in a area where insensitivity to well meaning attacks are a sign of love or caring about the other person.
Perhaps because the Jackie Gleason icon (BTW coming from Bayonne I cannot be a member of the Raccoon Lodge) sort of serves as a symbol of your nature. Well meaning, excitable, sometimes having a BIG MOUTH, not just Alice's problem, yet always doing things with good intentions, sometimes with not so good results, at first.
Whatever the reason, I always admire your posts for how they often cut to the chase. A lot of times I even agree. Even if some might consider them un-PC. How can one not admire someone who is not afraid to speak their mind? Especially in this day and age.
Perhaps, it might also be I often need that 2x4 smack across the side of the head reality therapy. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a wife like mine who swings a mean stud.
You have nothing to apologize for, FA. It's difficult, even when not in pain, to word things in a way that's not offensive to anyone. When you're dealing with emotional struggles and pain? It's damn near impossible to let that pain out without someone taking offense to how it comes out.
Quote from: peky on April 19, 2014, 05:38:31 PM
.. do not let the pansies get you down.
...really?
FA, when you moderate, you always seem to have so much wisdom, balance, and sensitivity. To me, you have always seemed to have a level of maturity that I tend to see in older men, not younger guys. But a good forum admin cannot waffle very often, so you also have a certain degree of resolve and assertiveness and even relative certainty--that what you are doing is probably fair and evenhanded, for example.
The kind of assertiveness that serves you well as an administrator can get you into hot water in other ways if you are not careful.
You do seem to be making blanket statements, and people are weighing in. But I think that those of us who know you relatively well see those statements as a symptom of the pain you are currently experiencing. I say some pretty unsavory things when I'm hurt, angry, or upset. We all have little flaws, and most of us allow the cracks to show from time to time. I think that you are doing the same. But honestly, I do not love you any less for it. Indeed, I am consistently bowled over by the amazing person that you are--the obstacles you have overcome, your honesty and candor, your compassion for others, your consistently fair administration of the site, and the time and effort you devote to this site.
But I do think that you would help yourself more if you would talk about what's going on behind the scenes. If not in a public thread, then maybe in Just for Us or a moderator thread. Or PM--I get the impression that you have done that with selected individuals. I just want you to be well and happy, and I'm distressed that you aren't.
Quote from: Arch on April 19, 2014, 06:33:48 PM
FA, when you moderate, you always seem to have so much wisdom, balance, and sensitivity. To me, you have always seemed to have a level of maturity that I tend to see in older men, not younger guys. But a good forum admin cannot waffle very often, so you also have a certain degree of resolve and assertiveness and even relative certainty--that what you are doing is probably fair and evenhanded, for example.
The kind of assertiveness that serves you well as an administrator can get you into hot water in other ways if you are not careful.
You do seem to be making blanket statements, and people are weighing in. But I think that those of us who know you relatively well see those statements as a symptom of the pain you are currently experiencing. I say some pretty unsavory things when I'm hurt, angry, or upset. We all have little flaws, and most of us allow the cracks to show from time to time. I think that you are doing the same. But honestly, I do not love you any less for it. Indeed, I am consistently bowled over by the amazing person that you are--the obstacles you have overcome, your honesty and candor, your compassion for others, your consistently fair administration of the site, and the time and effort you devote to this site.
But I do think that you would help yourself more if you would talk about what's going on behind the scenes. If not in a public thread, then maybe in Just for Us or a moderator thread. Or PM--I get the impression that you have done that with selected individuals. I just want you to be well and happy, and I'm distressed that you aren't.
Thanks Arch and others who have been supportive. Means a lot to me. Especially in this difficult time.
My mom says that sometimes I sound like a 'good ol boy redneck'. And she may be right. I mean, my dad is definitely a 'man's man'. And most men I've hung around have been of that sort of variety or worse. Maybe despite being born female, I've got a bit more of a 'redneck' view of gender stuff. I actually think I'm pretty effeminate, but maybe not. Or maybe a mix.
Sometimes you can be a bit blunt, but that's perfectly fine too. ;D
I like you and I'm worried for you hon, I know you're not in a happy place right now and hope you can find a way through it. A BIG HUG FROM ME!
Quote from: FA on April 19, 2014, 06:45:02 PM
Maybe despite being born female, I've got a bit more of a 'redneck' view of gender stuff. I actually think I'm pretty effeminate, but maybe not. Or maybe a mix.
Well, it's fine to be whoever you are, redneck or sensitive guy.
I've made a couple posts in the past few days all of which ended up lost in the shuffle, so I apologize if you've read them and this is repetitive.
It's ok for you not to be perfect. It's ok for you to make a post that offends people you don't intend to offend. We all do it. But I know know how your posts always come from a place of love, and that you mean no one any offense.
I know too well what it means to feel piled on by everyone when you're already hurting. It was a horrible feeling, leaving me bereft and alone. I can only imagine how hard this has been for you. My heart goes out to you and where you are emotionally. I'm thinking of you and sending good thoughts your way.
You and the other staff members do a lot for us. I, for one, am always aware of it.
I agree with Arch that FA is one of the most caring, kind, and wise people I have ever met, and if your experience of him says otherwise, you are just not seeing him right. I'll leave it at that. Oh, also try having empathy toward somebody that is seriously hurting emotionally. If you can't/won't then idk why you get to have your feelings hurt.
FA, as you said in the other thread, we may not share the same views, and I don't really know what family issues you are going through. But you should feel able to post anything you want, as long as you are also willing to listen to other people's opinions as well. That's what discussion is all about.
Just remember, you can't please everyone. You won't make everyone happy and there will ALWAYS be someone who is mad at what you do. It doesn't mean you can't voice your own opinions. Just beware that you can't expect everyone to agree with you 100% of the time.
If we all cringed away from that few that didn't agree with us, none of us would speak and none of us would get anywhere, learn, or grow.
I think you don't mean to hurt people, but you basically say things like "Why would you enjoy being a woman over thirty?" and other blunt things like it's set in stone. It's bound to hurt a lot of people. I mean, why would YOU want to be a man at any age? Because you are. Same with the ladies.
Quote from: Frank on April 19, 2014, 11:54:24 PM
I think you don't mean to hurt people, but you basically say things like "Why would you enjoy being a woman over thirty?" and other blunt things like it's set in stone. It's bound to hurt a lot of people. I mean, why would YOU want to be a man at any age? Because you are. Same with the ladies.
Oh, I agree. And I get that they're woman anyway, and that's it. When I said that, it was more tongue in cheek, sarcastic. So, it's blunt, but there's truth to it. Generally, society views women as the younger the better. And it's not quite as true for men. There's a certain age bracket where women are really valued and wanted and everyone loves them in this society. But men don't really have that. Not seriously.
FA -
I've known you since way back when I used to see you hanging around the unicorn forest, and I've watched you grow into the man that you are today - decisive and sure of yourself is what I see from you as you go about your duties here.
I'd guess from my experience at trying to be a guy - that all comes with some self doubt....... it's tough and lonely to be the guy out in front setting the direction, and no one applauds you for taking that task. A lot of people may despise you or talk badly about you. Are you making the right choices? Tough questions you ask yourself late at night. Yeah, I understand that.
But with all of that comes the respect that people have for you for stepping up and taking charge. Its what guys do.
Listen to the feedback that you are getting, consider it, and maybe adopt some of it as you grow. It's a learning process, right? It's ok to make mistakes because this is all new to us and we have to learn.
~Eva
Quote from: FA on April 19, 2014, 03:45:09 PM
(this is not in response to posts but backstage stuff)
I should never talk. Or type. I can't open my mouth or keyboard without unknowingly pissing someone off or hurting one of my friends.
So, going silent now.
Sorry everybody. I was just trying to vent about family issues that came up last night. But I guess I can't even open my mouth or keyboard without pissing everyone off. So forget it. I'll go back to being the shadow admin you never hear from.
I think you are nice and should write more things down.
But, I dunno. The kinds of things you want to talk about? I'm not sure this is a safe space for you. Too many folks with too many triggers all clustered near to gender norms and social expectations. Leads to some bad misunderstandings.
I know where the "life is over after 25" comes from and what it refers to. Not everyone here has that background or is going to take it the right way. Especially when we can't hear the tenor of your voice or see the hurt in your eyes. Lack of body language screws a lot of things up, I'm afraid.
Anyway, I just hope you will look out for yourself, try to keep yourself safe, and talk to people you can trust not to hurt you.
Quote from: Frank on April 19, 2014, 11:54:24 PM
I think you don't mean to hurt people, but you basically say things like "Why would you enjoy being a woman over thirty?" and other blunt things like it's set in stone. It's bound to hurt a lot of people. I mean, why would YOU want to be a man at any age? Because you are. Same with the ladies.
My wife constantly says "Who in their right mind wants to be a 56 y/o woman?". THis is followed by a fairly good and long list of reasons who women are marginalized in society, especially once the bloom is off the rose, usually by late 20's. In her case it is offered as reality therapy to me. I think the same applies for FA. Just the way it is in today's world and needs to be considered. Yes there are exceptions.
Quote from: FA on April 20, 2014, 11:19:15 AM
It just means the world is set up to favor women within a very fleeting, narrow age bracket. And it ends up making age an issue for women.
I know what you're saying - that whatever goodies are heaped upon women tend to happen during their sexy, childbearing years, and once those are over, women are no longer considered having the kind of power they did in their younger years.
Can I offer a counterpoint?
I know hundreds of women. Some are young and sexy. Some are middle-aged. Some are elderly. There's a lot of variety and variation, so I'm not trying to make a blanket statement. But the following seems to hold true among the women I know:
The older they are, the more likely they are to be content with their lot in life.
Younger women are more likely to be insecure, are more likely to have been given messages that they need to be "protected", less likely to have been given messages that they are powerful and can succeed on their own, and more likely to worry that their place in the world hinges on something as flimsy as looks, which could be gone in an instant. Women that age feel under oppressive scrutiny and often feel like if they don't look perfect, they won't measure up. There's a lot of cattiness at that age - younger women are far more likely in my experience, to be in competition with each other.
The older a woman gets, the more likely she is to realize her own internal power and the power of being part of the sisterhood. The more likely she is to have become someone's mother, or aunt, or to have a job where people depend on her. The more likely it is that she has learned she can be independent. The more that the women around her have also found confidence and personal power and don't feel the need to tear each other down. And the more likely it is that she has been able to let go of the crushing pressure to look good.
Yes, I'd rather be young and beautiful. But I am quite certain I wouldn't be
happier in that role.
Does any of that make sense?
OK, I need to rant.
Things that don't matter to me: Being young, pretty, desirable, fertile, skinny, measuring up, being a good f&^%, society, or whatever anyone thinks of me.
Things that matter to me: Being me, being alive and my family and friends that stuck around.
I'm just me. I'm not young, pretty, skinny, f*&^able, or whatever. I don't give a flying s*&^ about what society thinks of me or how I am valued. I'm still here, I'm late to the party and I still want whatever time I had left to f*&^ing enjoy it.
Big picture, folks. Be true to you, no matter what. It's how you value yourself. F*&^ how society perceives you. It sucks anyway.
Jill out.
*chucks mic on groud*
Quote from: Jill F on April 20, 2014, 05:07:42 PM
OK, I need to rant.
Things that don't matter to me: Being young, pretty, desirable, fertile, skinny, measuring up, being a good f&^%, society, or whatever anyone thinks of me.
Things that matter to me: Being me, being alive and my family and friends that stuck around.
I'm just me. I'm not young, pretty, skinny, f*&^able, or whatever. I don't give a flying s*&^ about what society thinks of me or how I am valued. I'm still here, I'm late to the party and I still want whatever time I had left to f*&^ing enjoy it.
Big picture, folks. Be true to you, no matter what. It's how you value yourself. F*&^ how society perceives you. It sucks anyway.
Jill out.
*chucks mic on groud*
Thank's Jill, I was struggling how to answer this post then you said exactly what I wanted to say in much less words. For I feel exactly as you do with only one exception, I do care what my new family here on Susan's thinks of me.
Ally