So, I've been very reluctant to adopt that term, but the more I go forward the more it seems like it suits me best.
TL;DR
It's a bit difficult. It seems like the more settled I get into one gender the more I feel like the other. Like right now I really don't pass as male in real life anymore, which, to be honest, is really good for me, but is also a bit distressing.
I've been trying to be more...honest, I guess. With myself. And like rational about my thinking. And thinking about why I detransitioned last time.
And honestly? It was because I genuinely wanted to be a boy. And I was genuinely happy with it for a second. And I know nobody on here or even in real life believed me, and everyone said it was deniaal....hellll, someone on this very forum called me a 'ridiculous sissy boy'. But despite that, those comments were off the mark.
What actually happened was, or what ended up happening, was I decided to get my learner's permit because I wanted to take steps forward and I ended up getting triggered by multiple things that day. A., I had to register for selective service, which I haaateddd doing, for some reason, and the sterile, stodgy, government atmosphere didn't help and B., some people next to me were making homophobic comments which was *eyeroll*.
The ironyy of this? Even after writing that out I feel more female than I did at the beginning of my post. So I'm starting to think what I really hate is masculine gender roles and such...chalk that, I doo hate them.I somehow find more strength and control in being female...which I need cuz istruggle with loss of control and vulnerability.
I guess whats really hard is the changes in my identity..so dramatic. I'll honestly go all day feeling like a boy some days. I'll think, ohh my godd, what was I thinking, this is nuts, I'm ruining my body. I'll even feel upset over my boobs. Then something'll trigger me and everything changes. My entire priorities do a 180. I feel completely female, and I end up getting depressed my hairs not longer or whatever else I may hate about myself that day.
I dunno, it's frustrating. Atm I'm going through a boy phase and I'm waiting for it to pass cuuz, yeh. I have no plans to detransition cuz I've been down that road and being female is, I know, for the best, all around. So I do wana kkep taking hormones and growing my hair. But it's getting me down lately on top of all the other stuff. And people know me as female now and just started taking me seriously again.
I do wonder if I transitioned for the right reasons the very first time (not this most recent time, but the time before that) because I wouldn't say I was very dysphoric about not being female aaat that exact time (id had those feelings since I was a kid but not so much then). It was morea way of coping with other things I had going on by wanting a change. But yeah.
Anyway does anyone else still identify partially with their birth sex?and how do you deal with it? I just keeping thinking...all this effort to change genders only to find a new dysphoria...kinda sucks haha
QuoteAnyway does anyone else still identify partially with their birth sex?
Yes. Moreso after transition maybe. I mean, transition was right for me. But I identify and empathize with girls because I was one. Even though ironically, I didn't before. And was actually kinda sexist. I don't know. I think transitioning and being a guy made me see the female experience in a different light. I can clearly see how women are treated differently. And feel bad. I also have a mother and sisters I love very much. And ironically, transitioning and experiencing life as a guy made me sympathize more with what they went through. Crazy sounding, but that's what happened. Oddly, I am alot more likely to sympathize and seek out female friends than I ever was before I was male. I don't know.
Abby,
You're not alone when it comes to wishy-washy confusion. My entire life right now is a huge question mark. My wife now knows that I'm questioning and is doing her best to be supportive and not to push, but she clearly wants me to decide that I am absolutely the man that she married. And when I'm with her, holding her and kissing her, I feel like I most definitely am. Today I bought a new suit for no other reason than that I liked it, it was a great deal, and I liked the way I looked and felt in it. My wife was very pleased at this, as she took it as a sign that I lean more towards male in my overall identity.
But if that's true, then why do I feel a need to keep growing my hair out? Why do I only feel comfortable these days when wearing clothes that really emphasize my slender figure? Why do I like the fact that as my hair grows, my mirror image seems to be growing more androgynous? Why do I keep doing squats to tone my legs and behind? And for that matter, why do I feel compelled to keep coming here, where I get to be Tegan?
It does a real number on the old noggin, I have to say. Gender is not an easy question to answer. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm bigender or genderqueer or androgyne or what. Am I transexual? Or am I possibly just a feminine guy?
Some moments I feel like him, other moments I feel like her. Most moments I just feel like me, and don't particularly relate to things on a gender-level. It seems unfair to have to decide.
For now my game plan is to just keep exploring what feels right. As I let my appearance slip into a more androgynous look, I'll see how I feel. Hopefully, with continued therapy, I'll know when the time comes if I'm ready to move forward or if I'm happy where I am.
I am so glad to have the luxury of being able to take this at my own pace. At least for right now.
I guess that's my only advice: do what feels right without trying to overanalyze it, and make changes at whatever pace feels the most comfortable.
Good luck.
:),
Tegan
Tegan, I found that quite insightful.
To be perfectly honest, at current moment my primary concern is growing my hair out and staying small/delicate/feminine. But otherwise I've gotten more interested in androgyny. So now I'm debating whether I should maybe temporarily lower or even drop my estrogen (which is currently very high) while keeping my anti androgens. Just because it may be wise to slow such permanent stuff as breast growth while I decide, but keep the AA so I don't masculanize or have any adverse effects.
I already know I can pass and this way I don't have to tell anyone I'm undecided again. That way I can see how I feel with long hair because it's very important.
Truthfully, I doubt I will, haha. Just cuz my brain is so locked into this mode I doubt it'll let me haha. But it's something to just consider...ironically taking my HRT as I type this.
Hah...guess I just gotta muscle pass this and hope in the end I'm happy as female
Ab,
Do what feels right, but don't treat anything anything as something you "must muscle through." I kind of like your idea of continuing with AA's while you let the hair grow. For some reason, the hair is super-important to me, too; I feel like when the hair gets to a certain length, I'll know for sure where I stand.
Look, I see that you're still a teen. There's no rush, hon, believe me. Do what feels right, but make sure it feels right and doesn't just seem like it should feel right.
Like you say, you can already pass, so ask yourself what's the big rush. It's important to explore these feelings while you're having them. Take the time to do that for yourself. I think you'll be glad if you do.
Take care,
Teg
Every now and then, I like to look at this little guy on the wall.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi53.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fg73%2Fmisterfizzy%2Fimage-7.jpg&hash=4885f1e73988ac9c86933bdde89b5c6ed3812060) (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/misterfizzy/media/image-7.jpg.html)
When we feel like racing to the finish line, it's good to remember these words of wisdom.
Cheers,
Teg
You know, Tegan, your comments really made me think, tonight. Thank you, you said some really wise stuff.
I can relate. Honestly, sometimes the whole transgender thing feels like a competition between ourselves. I don't know if it's just me that gets these vibes but I sometimes see people throwing around ->-bleeped-<-r-than-thou arguements. The whole "I knew I was transgender since I was 6" "Oh yeah? Well I knew since I was 4!", next thing you know someone's felt female since birth.
I don't think you can rationalize gender identity. Hell, I'll come forward and state that sometimes I don't even know if I believe in gender. Gender dysphoria is real, I've experienced it, but... the concept of "feeling female" is alien to me.
I don't feel like a "man" and I don't feel like a "woman". I feel like me and that's it, nothing else should matter. Some people will try to make poetry out of it and say "well, I don't feel my legs but if they hurt, I know they're there", which again, doesn't do much more than validate the existance of gender dysphoria, which I did experience.
The real antagonist here are gender roles. They condition who you are, who you can be and what you can do. You're exposed to them since birth and you'll be putting up with them until the day you die, that's why it's taken a little more serious than "nose dysphoria" for people who want rhinoplasty or "racial dysphoria" for wiggers addicted to Hip Hop, lol. Having a big nose doesn't hinder you from leading a fulfilling life, neither does identifying with a particular culture or trend you're not born into. But, being told how to act, what to like and what to ignore, can have devastating effects on an individual, and it's not something you can just "fix".
So, basically, I'm skeptical about the existance of "gender identity", but I don't doubt the existance of identity, as a whole. There is no stupid binary or categories that everyone fits into, there are people. The sooner we stop trying to label "gender identities" and simply take people for what they are and what they behave like, the sooner "gender dysphoria" will disappear.
I know a lot of people like to cling to science to validate their gender issues, saying it's to do with hormonal activity in the womb and <insert other theory here>... the truth is... nobody knows what causes it. It's all speculation, there is no definite answer. From a neutral standpoint, the phenomenom of transsexuality is just as likely to be caused by social factors as it is to be caused by genetics. Nobody knows.
Gender roles were created out of biological necessity. Females got pregnant, so physical labour was mostly handled by males. Men have evolved into being "stronger" because they had to, women took on a different role. However, in today's society, a lot of these notions and "roles" are absurd. Like "I want a man to protect me"... protect you from what? The rival barbarian tribe? We live in large societies and there's rules in place, wanting someone to "fight for you" is childish and selfish, none should want others to engage in confrontation for them, there's law-enforcement agents for that, and guess what? They're both male and female.
Gender roles are fortunately being flushed down the drain as society evolves, but they're still there. However, nowadays they're a societal construct more than a biological necessity. Here's the thing; wanting to feel safe, wanting to feel desired, wanting to be strong, wanting to be in control... these traits aren't gendered necessities... they're human necessities. It all depends on what each individual needs to feel happy and validated. Unfortunately, these "needs" are seen as positive in one gender and negatives in the other, so what happens when one craves what the other sex has, but is told to want what his/her sex can have? Gender dysphoria, and it just gets worse because gender roles are plastered on your face, you're forced to live with them and repress part of your identity. And what happens when an individual craves aspects from both genders? Confusion, as is Abby's case and many other people's. It is seriously out there and I believe "gender issues" are a part of almost everyone's lives. It's taboo to speak about, but I'm fairly certain that most human beings in modern society have experienced it to a small degree at one point or another in their lives... the question is, if your feelings of identification with the other gender's roles justify transitioning into it, or not.
Have you ever noticed how transsexual people seem to place a huge emphasis on gender roles? How they're very likely to live up to certain stereotypes and be proud of it? Why do you think that is? To me, it's the ultimate sign that gender roles are behind gender dysphoria. I once read a study where the doctor behind it suggested the renaming of our gender issues from "Gender Dysphoria" to "Gender Expression Disorder", which I see as more adequate, but far from ideal.
If both men and women could wear the same things, do the same things, be perceived as equals... would anyone be discontent with their birth sex? Ask yourselves this question and be honest, not to me, but to yourselves. I can only speak for myself and not others, but I have no "right" answer for the question, I simply don't know how to answer it.
Some people take comfort in hypothetical scientific explanations that might justify their gender issues, but I think that there's a lot of facts out there that make it just as likely for transsexualism to be caused by societal factors. Did you know that in the USA, there's 3 MtFs for each FtM? Coincidence? In my country, there's 4 FtMs for each MtF. This really points towards social factors behind gender dysphoria, towards it having to do with culture, a different perception of each gender's roles.
So yeah. I know my post got very long, I feel almost compelled to make a thread out of it, but I'm afraid it might be offensive to people who only want to believe in what they like to hear. In the end, the issue isn't you, or me, or anyone. The issue is gender roles, present in every society out there and masking people's identities and individuality.
I'd explain how I feel about transition, how/why/when I started identifying with transsexualism and talk about my own doubts, but I don't want to make this post longer. Just know, Abby, that you don't have to be "something". You're already you. If you like being both a boy and a girl, then there's nothing wrong with that, I am the same way in a sense.
On that note, it's probably good that you're feminine! Females are allowed more leniency when it comes to gender expression. Nobody blinks at a woman in man's clothing, but a feminine man is a scandal... so yes, I think being perceived as female is a boon when it comes to being your true self. Men suffer too much pressure to be "normal", most people have a fear of the word "gay" and "feminine", they're seen as derogative terms, females in that respect have it easier. Why are girls much more comfortable to kiss each other on the lips than guys? Society allows it.
Again, sorry for writing so much >.<
You might as well be bigender/genderfluid ...
The thing is , which body would you like to have the most?
unfortunately changing your body isnt easy and it cant be done multiple times,
but if you feel like a boy you might as well go out in male clothes etc , even if you dont pass...
just do what makes you feel comfortable
*I was just about to post this when Mermaids post popped up.
An excellent post, say's what I have missed in mine.
But I wrote it all out and stuff, so here it is...
It seems like the discussion of just where a person fits in terms of gender has come up several times, just lately here.
I just went through another discussion about gender.
What ever term or description you want to use is just fine.
But don't let it confine you to it.
Had all these terms been available to be when I was really trying to figure it all out in my late teens,
I would have gone through them all at one time or another.
Something I notice is that most everyone will change either the term or it's definition to better suit themselves.
I'm non-binary, have know it for as long as I can remember.
I took all the abuse and dished some out in return all the way through my teen years.
That was back in the late sixties, where your choice was to be one of two genders.
I tried the man-up thing, she just got tougher. So much for that working.
I bounced around within myself for years, when non-binary terms entered my life, I tried them all.
What a waste of time, but I did learn things from them all, just the same.
What I did find out, and I see here all the time, is that we are all fluid in a sense.
For some, more so than others. It holds true for anyone who considers themselves to be Trans and even some who don't.
Tegan is right. It is a journey. If you do happen to find a destination, that's fine.
But the journey is what defines you. And like all good journeys and even the bad ones, you learn new things.
Sometimes these things change your outlook, they change you. Hopefully for the better.
So trying to find that one term that works is an exercise in futility for quite a few people.
Because you will change. You need to to grow as a person.
The terms will change as well, or you may change your definition of a term.
But change is the most normal thing you can do.
If you're going to find a destination, you'll get there soon enough, right on time even if it takes most of your life.
Trust me, it goes by faster and faster.
Pay attention to your journey and get the most out of it without having to stop and justify it.
You don't need to. It's a journey, it yours, not to be compared to anyone elses.
It's fine if you stop for a while at whatever term you wish to use, but is it over when you do?
Gender is a concept that has a definition based on where you are seeing it from, your vantage point.
It will change if you haven't reached a destination and even then it might.
Your destination might change where it is even though you haven't moved within it.
Don't worry to much about what it is, it's going to be different around the next curve on the path you take.
After forty years of bouncing around since I left my teens behind, it's still changing.
But I am all about the journey and never the destination.
Somehow I think my destination will become apparent along with my eventual death.
But even then, maybe it does go on even then, who knows.
Pay attention to yourself, those things you are going through. You'll use them later on if not today.
Change is what a journey is all about. You don't need to make comparisons by using terms.
Using them as a way of gauging the changes you'll make is one way to use them,
but the time needed to find that right one for the moment is a waste of time.
Noticing that one fits every now and then is fun. Use it and move on.
Life is a journey, not a destination is a popular phrase that everyone can use.
But it holds a different meaning for Trans people. It's even more unique in it's nature.
I look forward to the changes I've gone through and the ones I'll make in the future.
What a wonderful thing to be able to do.
Ativan
Quote from: Ativan Prescribed on April 27, 2014, 12:00:52 PM
Tegan is right.
Ativan is right: I'm totally right. :P
Okay, no, kidding. Really great posts from Mermaid and Ativan.
The real reason I'm jumping back in is to tell you how great you look, Ab. I mean it- super cute. Am I nuts, or was that not your avatar picture last night? I can't see how I'd have overlooked that. Anyway, I can see what you mean about not being able to pass well in guy mode, but I have to say that however you identify from moment to moment, you are super adorbs. :)
Cheers,
Teg
Thanks guys, these posts were really helpful. I think, personally, gender dysphoria is complicated and can have multiple causes, and can even be a mixture of things for individual to individual. But. I doo think gender roless play a large part as an aggrivator to those struggling with dysphoria. My only question, now, is...would it have just been better to find coping mechanisms? Like I've learned to temper panic attacks and rage issues, a lot, actually...maybe I could have just done the same with this? I guess I'll never know.
Also, I've been trying to be more androgynous in general, lately. Like in my profile pic, that's female mode but I'm wearing very little makeup in it, and those clothes...tho female...are tomboyish
I find that, now when I go out in boy mode, I still get gendered female. Me and my mom recently went out and I was wearing a hoody (male) and jeans with my hood up and hair pulled back zeeero makeup,not even residue...didn't say two words (cuz my voice usually helps me pass a tonn) and the lady was like "does your daughter.." blah blah blah blah. Then I wore a very boyish button up shirt and jeans somewhere and styled my hair boyishly and still got called ma'am.
Thing is, i try to use my natural voice when I go out in boy mode but it still sounds very very naturally female...and my female voice, which is now hard to supress, is like disgustingly female haha. I would honestly like a bit more options. Like I had trouble passing as a boy even off hormones in full boy mode, even though my hair was short, it had bangs. So it feels like the only way I can pass as male, even a flamer, is if I go waay way way more masculine than I am prepared to...which triggers really bad dysphoria, in the end.
I hatee that I have to choose. Why can't we all be shapeshifters lol?? Life would be so much easier. It's hard deciding. Tho, I mean, realisticaslly, I already have, and I'm going to be female but still. It's frustrating. I feel like either way I have to sacrifice half myself and that sucks.
Quote from: Abbyxo on April 27, 2014, 05:10:50 PM
Why can't we all be shapeshifters lol?? Life would be so much easier.
I totally agree with you on that. The issue you have to reconcile if you are bigender/genderfluid is that you will probably not fully understand it, ever. That said, just enjoy it! That's your main coping mechanism right there, if you feel like a guy, you are one for the moment and can feel the emotions commonly associated with it, if you feel like a girl, same thing, if you feel in between, also same thing. I like to think of being like this not as a bad thing, but a good thing because I can actually pretty much understand all people, and I really can put myself in everyone's shoes.
When the surgery is invented to to turn one into shapeshifter, I'll be the first to sign up.
Quote from: VeronicaLynn on April 27, 2014, 11:07:08 PM
When the surgery is invented to to turn one into shapeshifter, I'll be the first to sign up.
Sorry Veronica! I have been camped out on that yard first. So you will be second! *giggle* ;D
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 27, 2014, 11:15:02 PM
Sorry Veronica! I have been camped out on that yard first. So you will be second! *giggle* ;D
It's probably better that someone else be the guinea pig. There are some shapes I don't personally want to be. While I can appreciate the simplistic symmetry of a sphere or a cube, neither of those are shapes I want to be. I would feel more comfortable with the procedure if someone else went first...
Quote from: VeronicaLynn on April 27, 2014, 11:30:12 PM
While I can appreciate the simplistic symmetry of a sphere
I would love to be a well rounded person! ;D I was a square before transition so that doesn't appeal as much. ::) Since it's Abby's topic we will let her go first and see what happens, deal?
Quote from: Mermaid on April 27, 2014, 11:24:03 AM
Have you ever noticed how transsexual people seem to place a huge emphasis on gender roles? How they're very likely to live up to certain stereotypes and be proud of it? Why do you think that is? To me, it's the ultimate sign that gender roles are behind gender dysphoria. I once read a study where the doctor behind it suggested the renaming of our gender issues from "Gender Dysphoria" to "Gender Expression Disorder", which I see as more adequate, but far from ideal.
If both men and women could wear the same things, do the same things, be perceived as equals... would anyone be discontent with their birth sex? Ask yourselves this question and be honest, not to me, but to yourselves. I can only speak for myself and not others, but I have no "right" answer for the question, I simply don't know how to answer it.
To throw in my two cents... Yes. Because the primary impetus for me to transition had absolutely nothing to do with social roles or clothing... it was a physical dysphoria. It was a feeling that the body I was living in was wrong on a fundamental level. The shape, the muscles, the body hair, the genital anatomy, it just all felt wrong, felt disgusting to me. And my brain felt like it was in a fog, where I could just never deal with the emotional block or the male sex-drive. And I'd look at women and their bodies and feel like that was what I should have.
And seeing as how there are indeed butch trans women, who still express themselves in very male-typical ways, but still received hormones and SRS, I think it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with social roles. Yes, for a lot of us it is about being seen as female by people, and being able to wear female clothes and do female-typical things. But for a lot of us, it's way more physical than social. And even in a world completely free from gender roles, we'd still feel like our bodies and our minds were not right, that they should be those of the opposite sex.
So where do you fall on that spectrum, Abby? Did you have physical dysphoria where you were uncomfortable with a male body, or was it more of a social thing for you? If you're more comfortable physically and mentally as a girl, then stay on HRT. If it was never a body issue, and you really don't care one way or the other, then yeah, you're probably somewhere in the middle, and it's just a matter of going with what makes you comfortable and not worrying about labels.
That's where I find the most distress among trans people... when we're trying too hard to live up to one label or the other, trying too hard to fit into societal standards, spending too much time labeling ourselves, rather than just doing what makes us happy and not worrying about what other people think. So yeah... just be you, and don't worry about which narrow societal box others would think that you'd fit in. (Needs to learn this myself, frankly. :P)
It's hard to say, Carrie Liz. I've wanted to be female since I was very very young...5ih, I think. 7, definitively. It's just one of those things that's always, always been there.
Looking back, yes. There were times on and off when I was very uncomfortable having a male body. But it was really more about...the female persona, I guess? I'm not sure how to describe it. Most of the time I wasn't uncomfortable with my body as male. And, in fact, I would say right before I started to suffer from anorexia, and riight before transition...though I consdered transition many times before this...I would say I was very content with my body and the attention I received, and only uncomfortable with hiiighly masculine gender roles. Otherwise, I was quite happy as a boy and had been for quite some time to be perfectly honest.
That's my biggest regret. Cuz right before I transitioned, my life had gone down hill in many many ways. And I was very depressed. And it had nothing to do with gender. It had to do with stress from A., coming out as gay and then being outed, B. my mothers mental illness, C. emotional abuse from family members and coworkers, loneliness, working a high stress, highly physical job with anorexia and low energy, etc etc. So I just latched onto transition, I guess, cud I felt like I need to do SOMEthing. I needed something I could get excited about. I need a change. I needed something I could control.
It was either transition or suicide...basically cuz I figured that's what transition was. I thought I was getting a new sheet, right? And I was. But maybe what I shoulda fixed the old one, first, and then made my decision from a more rational place. Cuz now I'll never know :(
I'm feeling a little bit sad now. Cuz I am, it's my fault. I was very irresponsible. You guys are right. I try to blame this community because I'm angry and I have to direct it somewhere. I'm angry that you're all happy, even those far less fortunate tan me, and I'm not. And I'm not because I didn't do this the right way. I was irresponsible, and self medicate, and I'm paying the price for not thinking...and that's doubt. And regret.
Okay, yeah, sorry to double post but I feel a bit lousy right now. But this is why, this is where my volatility toward this community came from...I felt like I was tricked into believing transition was something it wasn't, when really, I completely ignored advice against DIY. I was just dumb really. Everything I did was dumb. Brave?yes. But f-ng stupid.
I been trying not to blame myself because then I take it out on myself but, who cares, I'll do that regardless so I might as well just admit...I ruined my lfe haha. More than once. I guess hurting myself is just what I do best. And others in the crossfire. Ohh well, I'm here, now, right? Guess I just have to deal..
Hi Abby,
Please don't blame or second guess yourself. I always believe that people will make what they think is the best decision for themselves at a given point in time. Hindsight may prove the decision less than ideal, but it's over, and you thought it was what was best for you at the time.
The better thing to do is to think about possibilities - now that x, y, or z has happened, I can do a, b, or c. There are ways forward regardless of the situation, even if it may be a detour.
It seems you're still trying to find yourself and trying to get comfortable in your own skin so to speak. You've mentioned a few background issues which make things harder for you - I don't know - maybe you need to make peace with those things in yourself first before you feel more comfortable moving on? What you mentioned did not sound like anything fun to live through, and if you feel you've been hurt, the natural instinct is to lash out at all those around you.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on April 28, 2014, 01:11:16 AM
Quote from: Mermaid on April 27, 2014, 11:24:03 AM
Have you ever noticed how transsexual people seem to place a huge emphasis on gender roles? How they're very likely to live up to certain stereotypes and be proud of it? Why do you think that is? To me, it's the ultimate sign that gender roles are behind gender dysphoria. I once read a study where the doctor behind it suggested the renaming of our gender issues from "Gender Dysphoria" to "Gender Expression Disorder", which I see as more adequate, but far from ideal.
If both men and women could wear the same things, do the same things, be perceived as equals... would anyone be discontent with their birth sex? Ask yourselves this question and be honest, not to me, but to yourselves. I can only speak for myself and not others, but I have no "right" answer for the question, I simply don't know how to answer it.
To throw in my two cents... Yes. Because the primary impetus for me to transition had absolutely nothing to do with social roles or clothing... it was a physical dysphoria. It was a feeling that the body I was living in was wrong on a fundamental level. The shape, the muscles, the body hair, the genital anatomy, it just all felt wrong, felt disgusting to me. And my brain felt like it was in a fog, where I could just never deal with the emotional block or the male sex-drive. And I'd look at women and their bodies and feel like that was what I should have.
And seeing as how there are indeed butch trans women, who still express themselves in very male-typical ways, but still received hormones and SRS, I think it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with social roles. Yes, for a lot of us it is about being seen as female by people, and being able to wear female clothes and do female-typical things. But for a lot of us, it's way more physical than social. And even in a world completely free from gender roles, we'd still feel like our bodies and our minds were not right, that they should be those of the opposite sex.
So where do you fall on that spectrum, Abby? Did you have physical dysphoria where you were uncomfortable with a male body, or was it more of a social thing for you? If you're more comfortable physically and mentally as a girl, then stay on HRT. If it was never a body issue, and you really don't care one way or the other, then yeah, you're probably somewhere in the middle, and it's just a matter of going with what makes you comfortable and not worrying about labels.
That's where I find the most distress among trans people... when we're trying too hard to live up to one label or the other, trying too hard to fit into societal standards, spending too much time labeling ourselves, rather than just doing what makes us happy and not worrying about what other people think. So yeah... just be you, and don't worry about which narrow societal box others would think that you'd fit in. (Needs to learn this myself, frankly. :P)
Same for me. It was primarily body dysphoria. Roles played a part as well. but I was able to cope a lot better before puberty. My main coping method as a kid was simply to pretend to be a boy all the time. It wasn't about what I did, as long as I was a 'boy' doing it. Puberty robbed me of my only coping mechanism. I wasn't a kid anymore and couldn't just have everyone pretend I was a boy in the guise of playing some character. And when my body changed, I could no longer suspend belief myself.
Anyway, it's both for me. But the body thing was worse. I think sometimes it's a little more clear for trans people with physical dysphoria. More clear cut that you need to change things just to feel comfortable physically.
I really think both gender roles suck majorly. I talk alot about the female one sucking, but that's because I lived in it longest. And it was wrong for me. For some reason, I don't feel as much pressure as I did in the female one. But that may be because I didn't grow up in it. I end up coming off as an androgynous personality in either role: too masculine in one, a bit on the femme side in the other. But as a guy, I can just shake that off easier. Be the kind of man I am. And not care.
Anyway, I'm rambling. It's not about role expression for me. I actually am more emotional as a guy and more caring and all that. Appreciating beautiful things, trying out stuff like fashion and interior decorating, etc. Even though that's the opposite of what I'm supposed to be in the male role. I feel less stifled somehow as a guy.
Maybe for some it is more about what role they can stand better. Or what role they seem more naturally suited for. I think everyone should just focus on being themselves and not whether they're male or female. Just doing what they've got to do to be comfortable in their bodies and lives.
I have faced a gender identity issue most of my life and I am in my 50s. I consider myself bi gender because I have a deep inner feeling I am a man and a woman. It does not have to do with personality although cross dressing helps me feel my inner female in a more profound way. But I saw Episode 8 of Season 5 of CSI years ago and the final scene blew me away. I have subsequently come across this scene in reruns while channel surfing. Here is the dialogue from the last scene between Grissom the lead investigator and a transgender male.:
Gil Grissom: I thought you'd want to know what happened to Wendy.
Mimosa: I appreciate your telling me. Killed by someone in our own community. As if we don't have enough enemies. Her parents never understood her, but still I think they should know. What do I say?
Gil Grissom: Show them an oyster.
Mimosa: I'm sorry?
Gil Grissom: There are two types of male oysters, and one of them can change genders at will. And before man crawled out of the muck, maybe he had the same option. Maybe originally we were supposed to be able to switch genders, and being born with just one sex... is a mutation.
So feeling both male and female is the normal for me and maybe the way society has developed is a mutation.
Hope this helps!!
Blessings to all.