Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Male to female transsexual talk (MTF) => Topic started by: Frostice on May 09, 2014, 05:08:00 PM

Title: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Frostice on May 09, 2014, 05:08:00 PM
I think that this person, Conchita Wurst will give us Transgender even worse image among people who doesn't like/are making fun of us transgender...especially MtF.

We aren't ready for this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaolVEJEjV4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaolVEJEjV4)
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Randi on May 09, 2014, 05:28:52 PM
I am not offended in the least by this.  The crowd doesn't seem to object. 

Why can't a man wear a dress?  Why can't a woman have a beard?

I see no phonyness.  I see no shame.

Randi
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Ms Grace on May 09, 2014, 05:37:00 PM
"sexy women with beards" seems to be a thing at the moment.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: HoneyStrums on May 09, 2014, 05:38:07 PM
i was looking at this and all i could think was.

why arnt my eyes as offended by this as much as i was exspecting.

the overall presentation seems strangly fitting. life imitating art. its all i can say.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: FalseHybridPrincess on May 09, 2014, 05:39:43 PM
Quote from: Randi on May 09, 2014, 05:28:52 PM
I am not offended in the least by this.  The crowd doesn't seem to object. 

Why can't a man wear a dress?  Why can't a woman have a beard?

I see no phonyness.  I see no shame.

Randi

Ι agree
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: suzifrommd on May 09, 2014, 08:09:29 PM
Actually, pretty impressed with her courage. I'd even say she sets a good example.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: @Diana on May 09, 2014, 08:19:09 PM

something different , you dont see everyday , i am quite fascinating that she's so brave to do this , and she sang pretty well imo  ;D
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Mermaid on May 09, 2014, 08:54:38 PM
Brave and beautiful. It's a very aggressive statement, one that blurs the line between what's man and what's woman, which is what we need. Not more reinforcing of stereotypes. People are people, I loathe this man and woman thing, I wish I didn't have to transition to feel right, but I do it because there's strict guidelines on how women should behave and how men should behave... and I didn't fit in with what men should be like.

What Conchita does here, is enforce the idea that men and women can do all they want to do, that people are free, and that's beautiful.

What saddens me is conservative attitudes... people who never wanted to cook as men but suddenly become interested in it as women because of retarded stereotypes that'll help make their fantasies more believable (then saying it's because of hormones lol!), people who go out of their way to parrot dellusional stereotypes of what "women" should be... these are the people that hold the TS community back, if you ask me, not Conchita. I'm pretty sure that if these people weren't transgender, they'd be traditionalists or some sort of conservatives. The only reason this sub-group of transsexuals is "accepting", is because it serves their own purposes, lol.

I'm not saying TS people should go out there and shake the world, mess with society's notions and stick out, but... please don't conform or dellude yourselves. Be your own person, that's who you were born to be, not a "man" or a "woman"... be yourself first, and then decide if you want people to call you a man or a woman, but just be yourself, it'll make things easier for the future generations.

I think if we're going to bash anything, it should be conservative/traditional "transsexuals", not a beautiful person who's amazingly brave!
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: JamesG on May 09, 2014, 09:07:17 PM
I thought it was pretty cool. Of course he was only doing it for shock value and to get votes... but still.  Nice dress.  :angel:
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Jill F on May 09, 2014, 09:13:58 PM
I don't really see much difference between this and a standard drag performance.  A little gender->-bleeped-<- here and there is good for the world. 

There's a MAAB that I see around town here every so often that presents female from the neck down and completely male from the neck up.  I applaud xim.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Carrie Liz on May 09, 2014, 09:17:37 PM
So, a drag performer who decided to keep their beard rather than shaving it?

What's the problem? This is no more an offense to trans people than "normal" drag performances are. And even if this person was like trans-genderqueer and not a drag performer, what would the big deal be? It's not like this person is doing it for the purpose of making trans women look bad or anything. Maybe if the performance included jokes about "I'm really a woman" in a mocking tone" or "ignore my facial hair, I'm a GIRL!" In a way that was clearly belittling trans people. But I don't see any of that. It's just someone doing an atypical drag performance.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Randi on May 09, 2014, 09:18:51 PM
Nothing new with Conchita.  David Bowie did it in 1970 with this album cover

(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.theage.com.au%2Fffximage%2F2006%2F10%2F20%2FJTBOWIE_big.jpg&hash=3e48230565beeee106b3029cbe97aa793f9264dc)
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Ronnie on May 09, 2014, 09:19:11 PM
that was a pretty good performance not gonna lie
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Ms Grace on May 09, 2014, 10:29:13 PM
Gotta say I thought they were cis female!!
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Ltl89 on May 10, 2014, 12:59:27 PM
Given my andro appearance and that laser has still left me with a bit of beard shadow, I feel like the bearded lady at times, lol. 

Seriously, I don't see the problem.  She is living for herself and doing what she wants.  Even if we choose to differ in our presentation, I would think someone like this should be praised for being herself and not allowing pressure to dictate who she is.  She owes us nothing nor do we owe her.  We've all got to live our life as we see fit without letting other people dictate our path.  Sadly, that's been a very hard thing for me to get through with my whole validation problem.

That's just my view and I mean no disrespect to anyone who differs in their opinion.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Dahlia on May 10, 2014, 05:31:28 PM
She won the ESC!! The public adores her and so do I!

I'm so happy for Conchita! You go girl!
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Adam (birkin) on May 10, 2014, 06:21:35 PM
Well, I support Conchita and I think the song was beautiful. I also think it's nice to send the message out there that you can be yourself and do what you want to do. I just hope that people don't conflate Conchita's presentation with transsexualism.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Julia-Madrid on May 10, 2014, 06:45:43 PM
My initial reaction was a bit of "Oh Gawd," but on reflection I have totally changed my view.

This is a very strong, extreme, and visible case of non-binary gender presentation, and in this forum we actively stand for the freedom to be who we are.   

And like it or not, Conchita is going to become something of an ambassador for non-conventional gender presentation in Europe.  This both raises awareness of something that affects many people, and, extrapolating a little here from the Eurovision voting process, it also indicates that people's attitudes across the continent are changing.  This can only be a positive thing for us.

So, yes, WELL DONE CONCHITA for having the, er, balls, to go out there and WIN!!!
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Dahlia on May 11, 2014, 03:55:26 AM
Quote from: birkin on May 10, 2014, 06:21:35 PM
Well, I just hope that people don't conflate Conchita's presentation with transsexualism.

No such thing...the media all over Europe speak about the bearded lady and no one mentions the word MTF or transsexualism in general...because that's totally irrelevant.

It's quite clear people won't confuse her with MTF or transsexualism because she is just what she is: a DQ, and a very good looking, a very well dressed and a good singer at that :-)

And this gorgeous person has a mission too :-)
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Ms Grace on May 11, 2014, 03:57:28 AM
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on May 10, 2014, 06:45:43 PM
This is a very strong, extreme, and visible case of non-binary gender presentation, and in this forum we actively stand for the freedom to be who we are.   

Indeed!
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Ms Grace on May 11, 2014, 04:23:59 AM
Didn't a trans woman from Israel win Eurovision a few years ago?
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Veronica M on May 11, 2014, 04:37:09 AM
I absolutely loved it, and didn't find it offensive at all. Courageous indeed, but the performance was excellent.

Quote from: Jill F on May 09, 2014, 09:13:58 PM
A little gender->-bleeped-<- here and there is good for the world. 

LMAO... I love you way with word Jill... I totally agree with this statement. People get to wrapped up in boy / girl thing. Especially cis people. good to rattle their cage a little...
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Cindy on May 11, 2014, 04:41:11 AM
 :police:

A warning.

We do not miss-gender people on this site.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Declan. on May 11, 2014, 04:55:28 AM
http://wiwibloggs.com/2014/04/06/conchita-wurst-transgender/45930/

QuoteBut we were already fans of Conchita before we saw her sizzle on stage. Earlier in the day we caught up with her to discuss how long it takes her to put on her face, what it's like to swim with a painted-on beard, and the fact that she is not transgender. "[Dana International] is a transgender person and it's such a huge decision and it's just incredible what you have to go through to become a woman," Conchita tells us. "But me as a drag artist, this is just dressing up and painting."

Tom only uses female pronouns when referring to Conchita. She's his character. He isn't transgender. He has made that quite clear in multiple interviews; this is just one.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Serenation on May 11, 2014, 04:57:01 AM
My mum was asking me how this woman can grow a beard like that. I had to tell her Conchita was a drag queen.

Kinda reminds me of when Andrej Pejic was on the news. Everyone was talking about gender.

Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Ms Grace on May 11, 2014, 05:01:55 AM
Quote from: Declan. on May 11, 2014, 04:55:28 AM
http://wiwibloggs.com/2014/04/06/conchita-wurst-transgender/45930/

Tom only uses female pronouns when referring to Conchita. She's his character. He isn't transgender. He has made that quite clear in multiple interviews; this is just one.

Yes, I imagine it's a bit like Barry Humphries and Dame Edna
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Dahlia on May 11, 2014, 05:14:02 AM
Quote from: Ms Grace on May 11, 2014, 04:23:59 AM
Didn't a trans woman from Israel win Eurovision a few years ago?

Yes, Dana International, 1998.

And there have been a few more dr->-bleeped-<-erformers the last 5  or 6 years, can't remember their names and what countries they represented, but they didn't have a mission like Conchita has.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Dahlia on May 11, 2014, 06:42:03 AM
http://zagria.blogspot.nl/ tells you all about T-related ESC contestants etc over the past 10 or so years.
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Hugh on May 11, 2014, 10:11:35 AM
Quote from: Ms Grace on May 11, 2014, 05:01:55 AM
Yes, I imagine it's a bit like Barry Humphries and Dame Edna

True.

For me, the song was poor and was not a winner. Malta was the best followed by the Netherlands :-)
Title: Re: I just cannot believe how this person can do this...
Post by: Adam (birkin) on May 11, 2014, 01:09:28 PM
Quote from: Dahlia on May 11, 2014, 03:55:26 AM
No such thing...the media all over Europe speak about the bearded lady and no one mentions the word MTF or transsexualism in general...because that's totally irrelevant.

It's quite clear people won't confuse her with MTF or transsexualism because she is just what she is: a DQ, and a very good looking, a very well dressed and a good singer at that :-)

And this gorgeous person has a mission too :-)

I'm glad to hear that people haven't been mixing up the two! That's encouraging.