I'm just curious if this changes for any of you during HRT, I don't mean in function or level of desire which are pretty much a factor of androgen activity as far as I know, but on changes in what gender (if any) you find yourself more attracted to..
As for me, I'm not really attracted to either right now, I love females in a friendly way but definitely not sexually, with males I know many I respect and like etc., but not in any sexual way either, the idea of 'homosexual sex' does not appeal to me at all! So right now I'm pretty much asexual in most regards, but I know I'd love some kind of intimacy with someone, I'm just not sure who lol.. I'm wondering if HRT might change things, maybe through helping to sort out my sexual role issues, I'm not sure. I really interested to hear about anyone else's experiences here..
Thanks :)
This has been an interesting area in which I have changed.
Pre-HRT - I felt like I was 99.975% attracted to girls, and .025% attracted to men - back then juuuusstttt the riiiighhhttt guy would be attractive to me.
Now?
At first, I strongly resisted it, but around the 2 month mark on HRT I started realizing I had an involuntary attraction to certain guys.
I've still got my attraction to girls, but now I've got this attraction to guys that I can't ignore because it just happens without me doing anything. If anything I was wanting to -not- be attracted to guys! Now it's almost like I see at least one guy every day I find attractive. Only recently has this begun, with me being like 6 days from my 3 month mark on hormones. I saw a guy walking on the sidewalk as I was stopped at a red light in my car, today. I was thinking -that- type of thoughts about him, if you get what I mean - and it just blows my mind.
Never in a thousand years did I think I would develop an un-ignorable attraction to guys, like the attraction I have/had for girls. But now it's there, not there by will AT ALL, because I was resisting it big time, but it is there, and I can't ignore it. I've sort of had to cope with my newfound attraction to guys, but I'm coping with it and I'm OK with it. I can totally see myself falling for the right guy. It's so weird because it feels so good and I love it, but I can't explain it, because it's different from my attraction to girls, yet it gives me the same feeling as when I'm really attracted to a girl. It's just so weird to me - but I've grown to be OK with it.
I can now for the first time see myself being with either a girl or a guy. It's super weird but it's not unheard of or uncommon. It's just weird. I didn't expect it to happen like this, but it has. Now I find certain guys attractive - it's still similar to my previous tastes in men, but my range and general level of attraction has changed a lot.
I understand the concern. I'm an asexual panromantic. So...I'm concerned of somehow gaining a sexuality that I don't have now. I'm actually a little scared of somehow becoming sexual. Some are confused by that...but when you'be never had sexual attraction to anyone ever for your entire life... that's a big change. By teh same token, I have a BF. So If I ever do HRT, or can do it, he wouldn't mind if I grew an attraction to guys ^~^ But honestly, the idea scares me a little.
I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record by now, but If you're trans you're already beyond queer anyway. You like who you like. It's really no big deal. Just be happy and let it flow.
I identify as a lesbian but hrt has definitely made me more attracted to guys at least physically. The emotional attraction to them just doesn't seem to be there though.
What I find fascinating though is how much my attraction for women increased. So basically my attraction for women is like 200% while my attraction for guys is about 20% if that makes sense lol
Wow, very interesting Ath... Especially as you were so far one way, and only 3 months! It never seems to amaze me how hormone dependent most many parts of the mind are, and wonder about the others that are less typically associated with change due to HRT. As someone who loves science and has always attempted to understand and reduce the influence of the anthropomorphic filter through which I observe all that is around me, transition will be very interesting and maybe help provide some parallax to my observations :)
I wish you well on your journey and I hope the changes to your sexuality don't trouble you too much :P How do you feel your attraction 'ratio' is about now? It certainly sounds like its grown by a few orders of magnitude at least lol
As for me, I'm definitely not worried about a change in sexuality, in fact I really hope it does, I'd love to fall for someone eventually. My current position, stuck in the middle, does not satisfy my human 'need'* for at least some intimacy. I personally think it will fall towards being straight (as a female obviously lol) as I suspect my current issues towards my lack of attraction to males are mostly down to issues about my birth assigned gender, and very strongly not wishing to be perceived as a male in any relationship with one, which has created an aversion over time. This a hypothesis only, the truth will unfold in good time I'm sure... :)
*may or may not be a basic human need, possibly an artefact of my own individual anthropomorphic filter :P
Quote from: Lady_Oracle on May 21, 2014, 11:09:22 PM
I identify as a lesbian but hrt has definitely made me more attracted to guys at least physically. The emotional attraction to them just doesn't seem to be there though.
What I find fascinating though is how much my attraction for women increased. So basically my attraction for women is like 200% while my attraction for guys is about 20% if that makes sense lol
Damn lol.. that's a very good point Lady oracle.. I can't see myself with and emotion attraction to men right now, but who knows once I've been swimming in girl juice for a few years : P
Well, I wasn't really attracted to anything before. Now, I am kinda man-crazy. Problem is, I don't have the right equipment yet. :(
Quote from: TaoRaven on May 21, 2014, 11:45:21 PM
Well, I wasn't really attracted to anything before. Now, I am kinda man-crazy. Problem is, I don't have the right equipment yet. :(
Lol, sounds like trouble :P I hope the wait wont be too long for you.. :) That's great to hear though, I certainly don't mind if that is also the case with me :) Thanks so much!
Before I could picture myself with a guy BUT only if I was a girl.
Now I see a cute looking guy go down the street and think to myself "If only he has a sister" So deffinatley girl crazy over here.
Being trans that can be the easy part for the rest "Ladies and gentlemen please make sure your seat bealts are done up nice and tight, and keep your arms and legs inside the carriage at all times until it come to a complete stop". Enjoy the ride we all call life
Quote from: ath on May 21, 2014, 10:07:48 PM
This has been an interesting area in which I have changed.
Pre-HRT - I felt like I was 99.975% attracted to girls, and .025% attracted to men - back then juuuusstttt the riiiighhhttt guy would be attractive to me.
Now?
At first, I strongly resisted it, but around the 2 month mark on HRT I started realizing I had an involuntary attraction to certain guys.
I've still got my attraction to girls, but now I've got this attraction to guys that I can't ignore because it just happens without me doing anything. If anything I was wanting to -not- be attracted to guys! Now it's almost like I see at least one guy every day I find attractive. Only recently has this begun, with me being like 6 days from my 3 month mark on hormones. I saw a guy walking on the sidewalk as I was stopped at a red light in my car, today. I was thinking -that- type of thoughts about him, if you get what I mean - and it just blows my mind.
Never in a thousand years did I think I would develop an un-ignorable attraction to guys, like the attraction I have/had for girls. But now it's there, not there by will AT ALL, because I was resisting it big time, but it is there, and I can't ignore it. I've sort of had to cope with my newfound attraction to guys, but I'm coping with it and I'm OK with it. I can totally see myself falling for the right guy. It's so weird because it feels so good and I love it, but I can't explain it, because it's different from my attraction to girls, yet it gives me the same feeling as when I'm really attracted to a girl. It's just so weird to me - but I've grown to be OK with it.
I can now for the first time see myself being with either a girl or a guy. It's super weird but it's not unheard of or uncommon. It's just weird. I didn't expect it to happen like this, but it has. Now I find certain guys attractive - it's still similar to my previous tastes in men, but my range and general level of attraction has changed a lot.
This is almost exactly how I feel. I'm still primarily attracted to girls, but with increasing frequency I've been seeing guys and thinking to myself... I could go for that. It doesn't happen with every guy I see by any stretch of the imagination, but the attraction is definitely there. It seems to happen more often in person than if I was just looking at a picture of an attractive guy or something like that. Maybe pheromones are to blame? I dunno, it's not something I expected at all, but I can't say I really mind it. I'm not really that interested in actually acting on these feelings though, because in general I want to avoid dating or anything like that until I'm further along in my transition. But in a few years when I'm a little bit more comfortable with my level of progress... who knows? I think I would prefer to stick to dating girls to start out with though, because even if I do find myself occasionally attracted to men, the guys out there that are attracted to transgender girls scare the crap out of me, and I have some serious doubts that I will ever be passable enough that normal guys would find me attractive. :(
I'm not sure if HRT changes anything but acceptance and perspective. I could never accept my homosexual desires, but now my heterosexual desires are extremely pleasant and fulfilling.
Nearing 3 months here. I had a brief crush on George Clooney a few weeks ago, but that was fleeting. Actually how many straight guys might have questioned their sexuality after looking at him?
But then Evelyn wrinkled her button nose at the thought of being spoken at by a guttural voice, emanating man stench, body hair, dog breath, smelly socks, oil stained finger nails and accompanying controlling chauvinistic attitude.
For the love of Venus - please. ::) Men? No.
Just. NO. Oh gawd. Please stand on the other side of the street! Go awaaaaY!
Or I'll stomp you!!!
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi61.tinypic.com%2F21adzeu.jpg&hash=ab0b6da9a273b2639568789e0ff5ff57038a64f3)
I din't get the George Clooney obsession on here. It's like when closet lesbians say they love Johnny Depp but even fakier lmao. FYI as a young person who's always liked guys, George does nothing for me, but that may be an age thing.
But, yeah, my sexuality hasn't changed. Always been 100% into guys always will be. The only change is functionality tbh.
But heey, what's with all the manhate haha? I have to say, if that's your view of guys you've met up with some real duds. I've met as many gross girls as guys, anybody can be poorly groomed.
The right kinda guy can just...drive you crazy if that's what you go for. The way his skin looks or feel...not in a creepy way lmao. And I love men's fragrances and deoderant.
The worst thing is when you see a hot guy and can't help but stare...then he misinterprets it and asks for your number. That's depressing. Cause you know you have to say no. Ugh. Life sucks sometimes haha
I don't hate men I admire beauty in all its forms. One of my best friends is perfect to curl up with 6 foot 3, loaded with muscle yet surprisingly soft enough to sleep on. Plus he is paitent and flexiable enough to put up with me using him as my own personal pillow, couch ect every time we catch up. But sexually he dose nothing for me, just like girls do nothing for you Abby. We are all different and that is what makes life so fun and exciting
Quote from: Abbyxo on May 22, 2014, 05:02:17 AM
I din't get the George Clooney obsession on here. It's like when closet lesbians say they love Johnny Depp but even fakier lmao. FYI as a young person who's always liked guys, George does nothing for me, but that may be an age thing.
But, yeah, my sexuality hasn't changed. Always been 100% into guys always will be. The only change is functionality tbh.
But heey, what's with all the manhate haha? I have to say, if that's your view of guys you've met up with some real duds. I've met as many gross girls as guys, anybody can be poorly groomed.
The right kinda guy can just...drive you crazy if that's what you go for. The way his skin looks or feel...not in a creepy way lmao. And I love men's fragrances and deoderant.
The worst thing is when you see a hot guy and can't help but stare...then he misinterprets it and asks for your number. That's depressing. Cause you know you have to say no. Ugh. Life sucks sometimes haha
When you're 45 and George lives down the street, it's different. Actually he's much better looking in person. Just sayin'...
From personal experience I identified as asexual, a handful of months on hrt hasnt changed that (if anything I more strongly identify as such). If it did, that doesnt scare me, it would be nice to have that rush that people get from being attracted... It might change, it may not, either way like it has been said above, just go with it.
So, I'm 28 and up until recently I would describe to someone that I had the sexual preferences of Switzerland. Pretty much neutral on the topic. Maybe attracted to about 2-3 people of either gender.
HRT Type: Pellets (E + P), No AA
About 2-3 months on a moderate dose I would definitely now tell you or anyone who asked that I am strongly attracted to men. This has gotten stronger as I have went to a high dose at about month three. I have found that I melt under an U.K. accent, which luckily doesn't come by to often here in the Midwest. I also find myself acting possibly nervous and fidgeting/straitening certain clothing/hair/accessories when around a guy I might be attracted to, but can't seem to make eye contact. Like if he catches me looking at him, then I reflexively avert my gaze. A little distressing, because I want to act on certain urges that are now present, but don't want to as I still have something that other girls don't. Plus when I do start dating I will have had (0) experience in anything in that area, which has me somewhat distressed. Not helping that GRS is probably at least 2yrs off for me.
Hope that helps, but like everything here it seems MMV.
~Jen
P.S. Never really had a thing for George Clooney, more of a Benedict Cumberbatch/Liam Neeson gal.
Before HRT - Primarily unsure, leaning on Bi or Pansexual, had a sexual interest in mostly women and a little bit for men, had a kind of appreciation for the male anatomy, and had sexual fantasy interest in both.
After only 2 months of HRT - Complete lesbian, can't fathom a relationship with a man in neither a romantic or sexual way. I am not above appreciating a man's body for its physique, but it does nothing for me in any aspect. Love women eternally, both sexually and emotionally and romantically. However, more romantically and emotionally now than before, before it was about 80% sexually and 10% Emotional/romantically. Now I barely think about the sexual aspect and just appreciate the entirety of the female species. Another thing I've noticed is that back in my male days I would look at lesbian couples and react/feel unlike the common male response (sexually aroused and curious about what they do behind closed doors), instead I felt envious because their relationships seemed so... adorable. I had this desire to be in a relationship with a woman AS another woman, despite being a male and not knowing anything about trans-related anything.
So i guess in a way I've always been a lesbian and just started to dabble in other aspects in my male denial, and after hormones kinda "regulated" my system out, I came out 100% attracted to women.
Also; an interesting development - all the things that use to turn me on (kinks, fantasies, role play situations) literally RESET like a new computer, I no longer feel turned on by the same things and it feels as though I'm rediscovering my sexuality all over again. Its maybe a quarter dismaying but 3/4ths exciting :D like going through puberty again and trying all those crazy sexy things for the first time again xD
I use to be afraid that i would lose interest in my wife and become attracted to men (didn't want to experience the guilt of leaving her because i lost attraction.) but now our relationship is even BETTER than it ever was when I was male (even though my wife doesn't identify as lesbian) because we're more intimate and more loving towards each other, and sex is such an intense experience xD
Sorry, i get excited talking about the sexuality changes of HRT lol Another interesting discovery is that while before I would only look for sexual attraction in others, now when i look at people and admire their beauty, its in a different way, almost like I admire things that wouldn't be considered sexually driven. Like a person's hair or their skin color, or the way their calves are shaped lol, it doesn't arouse me as much as it just makes me appreciate it... I don't really know how to properly explain it :P my wife and other girl friends just tell me "now you know what its like to be a girl and not think with your d**k".
love it. never really "thought with my D**k" to begin with, but still ;D ;D ;D
Jill,
What? I am not queer!!.. was my first thought. That cracked me up LOL..
Anyway, UH yea... I see guys in a total different way now.. from a female perspective.
On hrt I had moments when I think guys are yuck...... then I started noticing guys...in a different way like wow.. he is good looking and I never thought of guys as attractive.. or at least let myself admit it.
I now realize after SRS I may want to be with guys.....and thats a mind trip.
But not surprising because with any sexual fantasy or sexual experience I have never been the guy ever.. I put myself in the girls place because thats how I felt from early childhood.
So seems natural to like guys later.. but not before srs.
I never dreamed HRT would change me so much.. I am a total woman now.. not presenting but wow have I changed mentally and physically..
I love it..and for me thats a good and bad thing....
Carrie
Quote from: Jill F on May 21, 2014, 10:39:11 PM
I know I'm probably sounding like a broken record by now, but If you're trans you're already beyond queer anyway. You like who you like. It's really no big deal. Just be happy and let it flow.
Quote from: Abbyxo on May 22, 2014, 05:02:17 AM
But heey, what's with all the manhate haha? I have to say, if that's your view of guys you've met up with some real duds. I've met as many gross girls as guys, anybody can be poorly groomed.
The right kinda guy can just...drive you crazy if that's what you go for. The way his skin looks or feel...not in a creepy way lmao. And I love men's fragrances and deoderant.
I hate most things related to testosterone, its consequence to beauty and aging (mine), and testosterones violence effect in society. Masculinity in general. Heck, so much so it's actually a problem for me. :-\
The way his skin feels? Greasy sebum, huge pores, and scuzzy facial hair? And these things get more pronounced with older men.... Just saying since you have youth on your side.
Nasty. No thanks!
Before self acceptance- identified as straight, with guilty attraction towards males that I never admitted to
After self acceptance- bisexual, but could only find attraction to very feminine males
after 3 months HRT- attracted to masculine men as well, and still remain my attraction to women. So I guess just bi/pansexual. Although I've caught myself checking out males more probably because its so new! Normally when I look at girls now I'm looking at what they're wearing or getting jealous of their boobies :P
HRT didn't change my preference.. Self-discovery did.
I went in to my transition thinking I was a straight woman, it was a logical choice, I'd been living as a gay guy for a long while.. And then I fell in love - with a woman. This forced me to have a long, hard look at my past.. Which made me realise I'd never loved a man, not one, even the ones I'd wanted to. But I had loved women.
Given my lack of any real physical attraction to men and complete lack of romantic attraction to men, it was safe to assume I was not straight.. Or even bi.. However, my physical and emotional attraction to women was undeniable..
Ditto to quote below..
Carrie
Quote from: Debussy on May 22, 2014, 06:09:06 PM
Before self acceptance- identified as straight, with guilty attraction towards males that I never admitted to
After self acceptance- bisexual, but could only find attraction to very feminine males
after 3 months HRT- attracted to masculine men as well, and still remain my attraction to women. So I guess just bi/pansexual. Although I've caught myself checking out males more probably because its so new! Normally when I look at girls now I'm looking at what they're wearing or getting jealous of their boobies :P
Quote from: Jennifer. on May 22, 2014, 11:39:55 AM
Liam Neeson gal.
<Jessica gets interested in the topic now> ;D
I highly relate to this topic. I am about two months on HRT now and before HRT I was highly depressive and asexual. Now, im super social and I think i might be attracted to guys as a woman. I've always read erotic novels between a man and a woman and wanting to be the woman in that scenario but outside of those stories, I would feel no physical attraction to anyone but now my attraction level to guys is slowly rising....
Nope, my preference itself never changed but there have been some alterations to my sexuality. I've considered myself straight prior to hrt and still do after starting treatment. I still see women very much the same way in the sense that I can find some women to be pretty or cute, but lack any sense of romantic or sexual attraction to them. With men, I've always been attracted both romantically and physically which has remained true all along. What has changed is that I find myself craving more romantic things since starting estrogen. I don't know how to explain it, but my desires are more romantically inclined and the longing for a relationship has gotten very stronger which sucks as it can make me feel even more lonely. Like I now get butterflys in my stomach when I'm around a crush much more than I used to. Not a big change, but those things are the only noticeable shifts I've picked up on.
In any case, go with the flow. It's cool to be gay, bi or straight. Just follow your heart and don't apologize for what it wants. That's all that matters.
Quote from: ath on May 21, 2014, 10:07:48 PM
This has been an interesting area in which I have changed.
Pre-HRT - I felt like I was 99.975% attracted to girls, and .025% attracted to men - back then juuuusstttt the riiiighhhttt guy would be attractive to me.
Now?
At first, I strongly resisted it, but around the 2 month mark on HRT I started realizing I had an involuntary attraction to certain guys.
I've still got my attraction to girls, but now I've got this attraction to guys that I can't ignore because it just happens without me doing anything. If anything I was wanting to -not- be attracted to guys! Now it's almost like I see at least one guy every day I find attractive. Only recently has this begun, with me being like 6 days from my 3 month mark on hormones. I saw a guy walking on the sidewalk as I was stopped at a red light in my car, today. I was thinking -that- type of thoughts about him, if you get what I mean - and it just blows my mind.
Never in a thousand years did I think I would develop an un-ignorable attraction to guys, like the attraction I have/had for girls. But now it's there, not there by will AT ALL, because I was resisting it big time, but it is there, and I can't ignore it. I've sort of had to cope with my newfound attraction to guys, but I'm coping with it and I'm OK with it. I can totally see myself falling for the right guy. It's so weird because it feels so good and I love it, but I can't explain it, because it's different from my attraction to girls, yet it gives me the same feeling as when I'm really attracted to a girl. It's just so weird to me - but I've grown to be OK with it.
I can now for the first time see myself being with either a girl or a guy. It's super weird but it's not unheard of or uncommon. It's just weird. I didn't expect it to happen like this, but it has. Now I find certain guys attractive - it's still similar to my previous tastes in men, but my range and general level of attraction has changed a lot.
I'm scared that this will happen to me, but you make it sound much more exciting than I am expecting it to be! lol
Quote from: FilaFord on May 23, 2014, 03:44:56 PM
I'm scared that this will happen to me, but you make it sound much more exciting than I am expecting it to be! lol
guys can be intensely interesting after starting HRT.
Quote from: stephaniec on May 23, 2014, 03:49:09 PM
guys can be intensely interesting after starting HRT.
I find lots of guys interesting right now, but I just don't find them to be sexually attractive.
If that changes, then I will be okay with it. I just don't see how it could possibly change! :D
Quote from: FilaFord on May 23, 2014, 04:46:33 PM
I find lots of guys interesting right now, but I just don't find them to be sexually attractive.
If that changes, then I will be okay with it. I just don't see how it could possibly change! :D
I've been bi all my life so its not a big change
Curiously, does anyone think HRT non-sexual attraction to guys is really just inferred role playing? The power of suggestion?
We are presenting female after all.
Before hrt, I had become pretty much asexual and remain so after being on it 10 years. not expecting it to change any either.
Quote from: learningtolive on May 23, 2014, 03:11:09 PM
In any case, go with the flow. It's cool to be gay, bi or straight. Just follow your heart and don't apologize for what it wants. That's all that matters.
I agree with this. Many people seem fearful of being open to new possibilities, but in the end you do yourself a disservice if you don't listen to your heart.
As for me, I guess I have a future as a Lesbian, I have been on hormones some time and my only attraction is to women, unfortunately fairly feminine women too, which means my potential dating pool is
very small. I honestly think it is too bad I don't like men, or even butch women in a romantic way, because that would be more potential partners but, C'est la vie I can only be that which I am, and small dating pool or not I know I deserve to find someone again so it won't dissuade me.
^ Same here, and I would be willing to accept a trans woman also. But she would have to be at least as pretty as me ;D
No seriously, it would all have to click of course. And I'd hope whoever she is, was and is a good girl. That's what I would bring to the table.
Quote from: Evelyn K on May 23, 2014, 05:26:11 PM
^ Same here, and I would be willing to accept a trans woman also. But she would have to be at least as pretty as me ;D
No seriously, it would all have to click of course. And I'd hope whoever she is, was and is a good girl. That's what I would bring to the table.
Oh yeah, same here Trans or cis doesn't really bother me, to me a woman is a woman, I don't get too hung up on parts.
Quote from: Evelyn K on May 23, 2014, 04:57:14 PM
Curiously, does anyone think HRT non-sexual attraction to guys is really just inferred role playing? The power of suggestion?
We are presenting female after all.
It might be more about "feeling OK" about feeling that way. Dunno. I rarely noticed guys when I was in guy mode myself, even when I was on HRT. Now I'm presenting female full time I certainly notice guys I like the look of more frequently. The sexual fantasies I had about women pre HRT have all but dwindled to nothing. Something's going on but I don't know what.
Oh god, I'd certainly hope there is no HRT re-wiring of my brain going on. I'd have to plug a cardio defibrillator into my spine if that happened to me. ;D
Quote from: Evelyn K on May 23, 2014, 05:52:44 PM
Oh god, I'd certainly hope there is no HRT re-wiring of my brain going on. I'd have to plug a cardio defibrillator into my spine if that happened to me. ;D
invasion of the body snatchers just sit back and take a nap
Quote from: Evelyn K on May 23, 2014, 05:26:11 PM
^ Same here, and I would be willing to accept a trans woman also. But she would have to be at least as pretty as me ;D
No seriously, it would all have to click of course. And I'd hope whoever she is, was and is a good girl. That's what I would bring to the table.
^^
Very interesting :) , that was the next question I was hoping to ask of you Evelyn, very convenient of you thanks :P
Would you prefer one over the other if you clicked with both, and they both had a comparable level appearance (not meaning to be shallow, attraction does usually have some physical component, which I am trying to control for in my question :P )
Quote from: Evelyn K on May 22, 2014, 12:07:14 PM
I hate most things related to testosterone, its consequence to beauty and aging (mine), and testosterones violence effect in society. Masculinity in general. Heck, so much so it's actually a problem for me. :-\
^^
The way his skin feels? Greasy sebum, huge pores, and scuzzy facial hair? And these things get more pronounced with older men.... Just saying since you have youth on your side.
Nasty. No thanks!
I would be interested to talk about this with you sometime, not to question your point of view at all :) I just love stimulating discussion.
I certainly have to agree with several points you make there, testosterone and masculinity certainly isn't for me!! lol, and many of todays current ills are indeed perpetrated by those with an over supply of T or not enough maturity to control it... However as for me I do have a great respect for masculinity and I guess testosterone too by default. It was the brave and driven, typically males who have driven forward the exploration of our earth and now in its early stages, the cosmos; who have also been mostly responsible for massive advances in science and technology in the last two centuries, and indeed the many wars which, despite their terrible human cost, were the hot houses of so much of the technology we rely on today. I don't think many would doubt that it was an orgasm (lol) of testosterone that in the 50's and 60's drove us into space. However I actually feel quite sorry for many males today, so many traits that were essential to them (and all of us) during most our evolution are now, in our modern civilisation, redundant; and are often now being expressed in very negative ways.. I hope we can find more ways to direct them in a more positive direction :) I know so many good and amazing men, as well as some monsters. I think our world we be much the poorer if we lost them, in fact for all their warts and body odour lol, I think we will really need their drive and direction to surmount the many terrible problems that are rushing toward to us in our very near future..
Anyway that's my spiel lol, I certainly don't expect you to agree, I think our diversity of opinion gives us strength :)
Philippa
ps sorry, that was way off topic lol, please don't follow my lead here ladies, this has been so interesting with some great posts thanks :)
lemon, lf all things where basically equal, physically, interests, morals, I would say I would choose the trans woman. Because I would have more rapport with her. Given what she and I are.
And just to pre-empt, I don't really like taking discussions off board much in case anyone was wondering. Unless I have a genuine concern about something or someone.
;D
Quote from: lemon_ice on May 23, 2014, 06:21:16 PM
However as for me I do have a great respect for masculinity and I guess testosterone too by default. It was the brave and driven, typically males who have driven forward the exploration of our earth and now in its early stages, the cosmos; who have also been mostly responsible for massive advances in science and technology in the last two centuries, and indeed the many wars which, despite their terrible human cost, were the hot houses of so much of the technology we rely on today. I don't think many would doubt that it was an orgasm (lol) of testosterone that in the 50's and 60's drove us into space. However I actually feel quite sorry for many males today, so many traits that were essential to them (and all of us) during most our evolution are now, in our modern civilisation, redundant; and are often now being expressed in very negative ways..
This rings truth and you said it nicely. But I don't see why a perfect utopia of women can't seek technical advancement of their own. Breast cancer for instance is still a scourge and motivating factor. As well as women's physical weaknesses. Who knows, instead of landing on the moon, we might have artificial intelligent automatous cyborgs doing the heavy lifting and home defenses for us now. ;D
Hormoans + pheramoans + desirability ?
right now sexualy im sub, meaning im intrested in poeple intrested in me, but they also need to make moves for me to react to. so far this has mainly been men.
Id say i have a type but i dont its just the person has to have this hidden quality idk maybe that quality is what people call the click.
Im cant make an opinion regarding Es affect on this but i can say i hope it only intensifies my receptivaty, im too picky ironicaly so maybe with an increace in suitors ill have better luck finding someone, or choosing someone that chooses me.
Quote from: lemon_ice on May 23, 2014, 06:21:16 PM
However as for me I do have a great respect for masculinity and I guess testosterone too by default. It was the brave and driven, typically males who have driven forward the exploration of our earth and now in its early stages, the cosmos; who have also been mostly responsible for massive advances in science and technology in the last two centuries, and indeed the many wars which, despite their terrible human cost, were the hot houses of so much of the technology we rely on today. I don't think many would doubt that it was an orgasm (lol) of testosterone that in the 50's and 60's drove us into space. However I actually feel quite sorry for many males today, so many traits that were essential to them (and all of us) during most our evolution are now, in our modern civilisation, redundant; and are often now being expressed in very negative ways..
I tend to attribute this more to social roles/barriers that deterred or prevented more females being involved in the past (especially in more tech/cutting edge stuff), rather than to anything useful about testosterone/masculinity.
Quote from: lemon_ice on May 23, 2014, 06:21:16 PM
I think our world we be much the poorer if we lost them, in fact for all their warts and body odour lol, I think we will really need their drive and direction to surmount the many terrible problems that are rushing toward to us in our very near future..
I don't see why gender/sex/hormone balance/whatever really needs to come into this. We are capable of being driven and motivated without testosterone or masculinity. We just need intelligent, capable people able to dream/worry about the future and care enough to do something.
I'm guessing it's not quite what you meant when you wrote it, but to me, it sounds a bit like 'we need the men to save us!!!' because in the past they haven't been keen on letting us contribute nearly as much. If I sound angry/combative it's because of that and I'm sorry for coming across that way.
As for the main topic, I find HRT actually reduced my sexual interest in men. I've never had any romantic interest in men, just women. I think my attraction to men was more so I could be the 'woman' in sex helping to temporarily reduce my GD. Sexual interest in women was always mixed with jealousy and envy and intense sadness at my body, making the GD worse. As a result I never bothered with relationships. Just kept to myself.
Now that my body has changed a bit (mostly breasts that are just starting to be noticeable even under a thick jumper, not many facial changes/body shape changes that I have noticed, but my T is still a bit high and the E dose is still a little bit low I think, so the breast growth is somewhat surprising), I see myself as female in the mirror much more often, facial hair going and that I've been internally 'seeing' myself as female for about 2.5 years (oddly I found out about being TG, went with that but didn't really know about transitioning till like 14 months after identifying as female...) I don't really experience much attraction to men unless I'm really down. I'm just too female most of the time to need to use gender roles as a way of validating/boosting myself anymore. Consequently, I'm much more comfortable with being lesbian. When I was a teenager I would occasionally 'slip' and think of myself as lesbian, then reject the idea. Because of my body, it just felt dirty and weird.
This has been by far the hardest part of my transition. I wish so much that I was still attracted to women!! I'm actually going to try and meet some lesbian women, but its only out of necessity!! It just sucks to attract the attention of men and have the wrong plumbing, wrong designation (I'm still a father to my children) or worse yet, not having a normal childhood or upbringing any other woman would have. I am just an average women until someone gets to know me better :(
Sure I could inform a man the minute he asked me out, but why can't I just have a normal type courtship all other women have!!
I wish I could narrow it down to why my attraction as done a complete 180, I would avoid whatever it is!! Its not that I don't like it, it just does me no good to be attracted to men. I have noticed that the acceptance of society of me as a woman has probably made the most impact on my attraction. My socialization with men is 110% different, mostly good but also some of the typical female prejudices. I am treated so nice by men and even boys and yes I do get flirted with maybe even more than I think. I really don't think I am anything special and it has only been the last year that I have figured out men have been hitting on me.
My sexual attraction seems to involve everything I have lost or want to loose :) I love a hairy chest! and hair on the arms and legs is just so amusing now. Muscles also are so attractive to me now, though I still have some in the upper arms and shoulders UGH! I also think the pheromones men give off have created some attraction as well, though most of the men I have been with smell strange, including my boys. I have always wanted to ask a cis woman or even my sister to see if they smell the same smell...or is it just trans girls. I know before hrt the only thing I could smell on a man is either sweat or cologne.
The penis is another story...I was a very heterosexual male before, seen a couple of friends organs but not because I wanted too!! I never had any type attraction to a man and especially his organ. I now am very very curious and fascinated with this organ, even though I have a similar type one. I have found out though, I wouldn't consider mine now or even before HRT anything similar to any other man's.
Quote from: lemon_ice on May 23, 2014, 06:21:16 PM
I think our world we be much the poorer if we lost them, in fact for all their warts and body odour lol, I think we will really need their drive and direction to surmount the many terrible problems that are rushing toward to us in our very near future..
This got me thinking... aren't most of those "problems" rushing towards us rooted by testosterone's pig headed influence in the 1st place? Wars, crime, ... beer? ;D
Anyway I had a thread run a bit against the grain of the spirit of the forum related to this very topic and was veto'd. I think it's better to move on.
At least we agree on some points.
Quote from: Just Shelly on May 23, 2014, 10:31:27 PM
This has been by far the hardest part of my transition. I wish so much that I was still attracted to women!! I'm actually going to try and meet some lesbian women, but its only out of necessity!! It just sucks to attract the attention of men and have the wrong plumbing, wrong designation (I'm still a father to my children) or worse yet, not having a normal childhood or upbringing any other woman would have. I am just an average women until someone gets to know me better :( ......
Wow, that is an amazingly significant change given your prior inclination... I hope this does not remaining disturbing to you, or that you manage to find that girl that can still drive you crazy :)
And my apologies to Evelyn and Goldfish, sorry I did not mean to rock the boat or stir controversy :) I think we would definitely agree on more than we disagree on! You both sound like very intelligent and passionate too which I admire :) Yes I think we'd better get things back on topic, especially me as the TA lol.
I'm more to guys ( I haz boyfie FYI ) but I still have this thing for girls. NO! Not all girls, just those girls that have those kawaii faces. I told my brother about it, he says I'm probably Bi and its normal for girls to like other girls? I have been kissed by a girl before, on the cheek, well we used to be close till she joined up with some girls who totally changed her attitude... WAIT! *has flashback* There was this once when a cashier at Watsons was giving me "the look" did she like me? Well I don't know but anyway she was REALLY nice to me. Like when I was lining up she was all meh take your stuff and get lost towards the other customers, but when it was my turn she went from all gloomy to some rainbow inspired unicorn with giggle talk. ( Akward ) She kind of did freak me out tho. Anywaaaay I like both guys and girls sooo lets put it like this: Guys= 60% and Girls=40%.