How many here believe in God, how many here are atheist/agnostic, etc. . .
I think this question would be better suited for the Spirituality section, but yes, I do believe in God. :)
Are you just trying to conduct an informal poll or was there some sort of follow-up question/topic? There's a whole lot lumped into that "etc".
I don't, and identify as an atheist.
Quote from: Spiritwlker on May 24, 2014, 02:06:04 AM
Are you just trying to conduct an informal poll or was there some sort of follow-up question/topic? There's a whole lot lumped into that "etc".
^agree^ the number of believe systems are in the thousands. From, no way god exists to hundreds of gods, to the life system as a whole being the "god", to people can become gods. Yes the etc. is ginormous, and incredibly entertaining and interesting.
To answer your question; hard for me to believe this is all by chance, also hard for me to believe that a "great power" of some sort loves us and wants the best for us. This is mostly to chance but something had to put the chicken and noodles together to make soup and there is definitely a hand " stirring the fishbowl" from time to time. A god as most define it, no.
I don't know. The universe is vast, the multiverse infinite. Given unlimited possibilities complexity, life, even us is inevitable. A creator is too limited a concept in the traditional pantheon of peoples beliefs.
I do believe in something like spirit. I think it is an inevitable feature of consciousness, and that this is where transcendence comes from. It doesn't have to persist past the end of life, but there is something inside of everyone I have ever met that is greater than the sum of their parts.
Call it grace or whatever works for you, but this is where I find strength in darkness, and joy in light. It is manifest in the smiles of babies, the eyes of lovers, and it is the look my dog gives me when I come home. I think it is what the essence is of being human, being aware.
Peace,
Julie
Quote from: Stephanie95 on May 23, 2014, 10:17:02 PM
How many here believe in God, how many here are atheist/agnostic, etc. . .
This thread and poll may answer some of your question: https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,138057.0.html
Quote from: Stephanie95 on May 23, 2014, 10:17:02 PM
How many here believe in God, how many here are atheist/agnostic, etc. . .
I believe in
gods and goddesses so probably the etc.
I believe in Beyonce LOL
Quote from: Emily29 on July 05, 2014, 11:25:28 PM
I believe in Beyonce LOL
So you do believe in God!
Quote from: ThePersona on July 05, 2014, 11:31:26 PM
So you do believe in God!
Ahhaha yeah and I love your fav quotes :3 #Disneygals
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, you know, i'm on the fence with this one. lol
I believe in the existence of God. Just look around you and see the beautiful beings the Creator creates. I don't believe in any of the organized religions. To me they seem to be man made. Look at a beautiful flower and wonder how it got here. Outer Space by looking at the stars at night. There are so many beautiful things. When in trouble God will help you out. By the way, no ones knows if God is male or female.
Quote from: Emily29 on July 05, 2014, 11:45:05 PM
Ahhaha yeah and I love your fav quotes :3 #Disneygals
Disney is Life, Disney is Forever!
Quote from: janetcgtv on July 05, 2014, 11:58:44 PM
I believe in the existence of God. Just look around you and see the beautiful beings the Creator creates. I don't believe in any of the organized religions. To me they seem to be man made. Look at a beautiful flower and wonder how it got here. Outer Space by looking at the stars at night. There are so many beautiful things. When in trouble God will help you out. By the way, no ones knows if God is male or female.
There is "neither man not woman in Christ" quote from the bible
Christ is Neither Gender
I believe we create our own reality through perception, therefore any god we choose to pray to exists within our own perceived reality and within ourselves as they are created through our own perception
I believe in math and physics and funny cat videos. And trees and words and music and the broccoli in my ramen and the smell of a guy's skin filtered through his button-up business shirt. I believe in almonds and astronomy and nostalgia and chemistry. I don't believe in god, but it seems unfair to just say I'm an atheist. All the stuff I care about carries the same meaning and importance as god, just averaged out across a lot of concepts and experiences.
I believe god exists, but as to whether it is a supernatural entity or not I can't say. As long as some people are governed by what they see as their God['s] will, it doesn't matter whether that God is divine or not, because through that believer its will is imposed.
Yes, I believe in God.
Yes I believe in God or a Creator but I believe the same is uncomprehensible in the human brain and mind and therefore leads to all the strife we see connected to religions and just the sheer amounts of religions.
I'm an Atheist.
I've never seen any evidence for a god or gods
Quote from: f_Anna_tastic on July 10, 2014, 11:17:11 AM
I'm an Atheist.
I've never seen any evidence for a god or gods
How do you expalain the formation of the solar system and the development of the earth and life on it? Yes, I support evolution to a great extent and believe that evolution and creationism coexist. However, what force do you believe is responsible or controlling in the formation?
Quote from: f_Anna_tastic on July 10, 2014, 11:17:11 AM
I'm an Atheist.
I've never seen any evidence for a god or gods
I am definately on the other side because I see no evidence that there isn't something that is planned. Especially as chaotic and dangerous and destructive as our physical universe is yet we are in a very special part of the galaxy that is extrememly tame enough for complex organisms to thrive and the blueprints of life to become so complex. That this planet is so perfectly balanced to support life when so many others are not and not just in this solar system alone. Are we special? No just extrememly lucky for now. But maybe, just maybe a little bit of intervention caused it to be this way. I think life is fairly abundant in the Universe but complex life, maybe not so much. But again and I have to state that my views of a Creator does not stem from any religion. Just coincidence and evolution and the and the way things seem to be in a balance of constant cycle of life and death and rebirth and destruction. It's pretty much self sustaining.
Some of us may believe in God and some of us not, personally I think we are all right to an extent, but I think a bigger more philosophical question is, does God believe in us? Or better yet, do we believe enough in ourselves to keep from self destruction? Or to be able to survive a global catostrophic event and be able to send some of us to another place in order for the human race to survive? I know it sounds far fetched but not really. Look at the asteroid that blew up over Russia? What if it would have been a thousand times bigger? The Yellowstone volcanoe is really getting close to its normal cycle which as big as it is would probably kill most of the humans in this country and possibly on a global scale too and possibly set off chain reactions around the ring of fire that may very well end human existance on this planet. The world and nature and the cosmos are dangerous places and we have been really lucky. But the biggest threat to us are ourselves through ideas of genocide, hate for one another and some ideas of religion that may or may not even be true or may or may not be the whole picture. So the big question is if God exists, does God have enough faith in us or believe enough in us to allow us to continue on? This question I have never heard from any religion.
So I've never really seen any proof of God either 'cause I have never had my prayer answered. But I've never really seen any proof that there isn't a God either. The complexity of life and evolution is just too coincidental to be a coincidence.
The subject of a god is so very controversial. I usually play it safe by saying I am agnostic. So, middle of the road, as I could go either way. It is like the paranormal. I seem to have some "evidence" of that, as in EVP's (Electronic Voice Phenomena), but we really don't know what it is for sure. Many skeptics on that, as well. Interesting topic, though.
Quote from: Stephanie2 on July 10, 2014, 02:26:08 PM
The subject of a god is so very controversial. I usually play it safe by saying I am agnostic. So, middle of the road, as I could go either way. It is like the paranormal. I seem to have some "evidence" of that, as in EVP's (Electronic Voice Phenomena), but we really don't know what it is for sure. Many skeptics on that, as well. Interesting topic, though.
And really it shouldn't be a controversial subject at all. Either you believe or you don't believe. Or you believe this way and others believe that way. But we all have the choice to believe how we do and much of that is formed by life experiences. For some there is evidence and for others there is not. We should never judge others regardless and that is especially true about beliefs. But unfortuantley that isn't the case because a lot of lives throughout history have been lost because of someone else's views of God and the vanity that their view is the only right view. I guess I could be agnostic because I really wouldn't be surprized if there is or isn't but tend to believe more that there is but way more complicated than just good=heaven and bad=hell.
I'm also an atheist. As for the questions about who 'built' the universe, who says it was built? And just because we don't know where something came from, or don't know how it works doesn't mean it's magic......
I'm agnostic.
I don't believe in any god or goddess, nor is there any actual proof of one. But I also don't disbelieve in the notion of something greater existing.
I feel that I'm in a similar position to Nami. I don't discount the possibility that there may be one or multiple beings with abilities beyond our comprehension. One or more of which may well have been responsible for life on Earth.
I don't however believe for one moment that if there is a deity that would lay down a set of instructions to a select few individuals in remote locations with no witnesses. It's illogical. If a deity wanted to make their will known then they would tell everyone.
Quote from: Jess42 on July 10, 2014, 02:50:09 PM
But unfortunately that isn't the case because a lot of lives throughout history have been lost because of someone else's views of God and the vanity that their view is the only right view.
I think it's fear rather than vanity.
The fear that they might be wrong and that they don't have any understanding of what will happen when they die.
If there are dissenters who question their doctrine or propose an alternate thesis then they are compelled to silence them, because if everyone agrees with them then they "can't be wrong" right?
I mean "we can't all be wrong now can we?"
It reminds me of the Asch experiments into conformity. He found that the majority of people would change their answers (when the answers were always obvious) to conform with an incorrect majority provided that the other members of the group were united in their position.
When questioned several of the participants said that they didn't think that the rest of the group could all be wrong, so they felt that they themselves must not have been interpreting the information correctly.
But if even one of the experimenter's confederates gave the correct answer then the participants were far less likely to be swayed by those who were obviously wrong.
I think a lot of religious leaders live in fear that if people speak up against their teachings then the rest of their followers might start thinking critically and daring to raise their own questions.
Questions to which they do not have the answers.
I guess you could say that I believe in the possibility of god, but not the possibility that an organised religion based around god knows anything about god.
I neither believe nor disbelieve. Maybe God exists, but until I'm more sure, I won't break my back to please someone who might not even be there. I don't put that much faith into the unknown.
No.
.........
The little cousin dashed in
from her friends outside:
"Mother, what
do we think about God?"
My aunt's brisk answer:
"We think God is silly."
My cousin dashed back
with the news.
-- Thom Gunn
Quote from: Falconer on July 22, 2014, 12:33:54 PM
I think it's fear rather than vanity.
The fear that they might be wrong and that they don't have any understanding of what will happen when they die.
If there are dissenters who question their doctrine or propose an alternate thesis then they are compelled to silence them, because if everyone agrees with them then they "can't be wrong" right?
I mean "we can't all be wrong now can we?"
Well you could be right on the fear thing Falconer but I still tend to believe it is more in vanity than anything else. Sort of like, "My God is better than your God." Or rather "My perceptions of God are better than your perceptions of God." Or better yet, "I am right and everyone else is wrong because God told me." But also the fear element is instrumental when it comes to controlling the masses. Like, "If you don't do what I say because God told me this is the way, you will be punished and tortured forever." Hold people's eternal selves hostage and they will do anything you want if they think you have inside information and the key to eternal bliss.
Personally when it comes to God or the perceptions of who or what God is, I say this over and over again, there are no rights and there are no wrongs. A lot of our perceptions are formed psychologically through our life experiences. But I do think a lot of organized religions tend to bring the concept of God down to a human level and in no way do I believe God can even be relateable completely to humans either through perceptions or concepts. I mean most religions when talking about God reference God as "He". To me that is a lot of assumption. I have said many times that I believe God is so far above our understanding that we may never know or grasp exactly what the true concept of God is.
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 10, 2014, 03:28:29 PM
I'm also an atheist. As for the questions about who 'built' the universe, who says it was built? And just because we don't know where something came from, or don't know how it works doesn't mean it's magic......
I definately agree with this line of thinking. I'm not athiest but man has an incessant need for a beginning and and ending. So we have the Big Bang theory but what if the Universe is and always has been? With no beginning or ending just recycling itself and sustaining itself through destruction and reconstruction or death and life? Even our concepts of time are linear, a straightline that had to begin somewhere and is going to end somewhere. Even theoretical physists like Michio Kaku theorize that the multiverse theory exists possibly at different resonances and vibrational levels right along side one another. Einstien theorised that the past, present and future are happening simultaneously. Which isn't that far fetched if you think about it. All we can percieve is this tiny moment of awarenss of being. The past is nothing more than memories in our Psyches and the future is nothing more than fantasies in our Psyches. The only thing we have proof positive of is right now, wait for it...
NOW. Then it's gone that fast and then resides in a mental state only. One thing that we can all agree on is that the Universe and the possiblities in it are as infinate as our imaginations. Whether you believe in God or some other devine entity or not. I personally believe in God but my mind remains open to who or what God may be. Or eventually may be or even just a story to make humans feel better to beat back the fear of death.
Now the local susan's crazy lady, me, will shut up. :P
Quote from: Stephanie95 on May 23, 2014, 10:17:02 PM
How many here believe in God, how many here are atheist/agnostic, etc. . .
Hard not to believe when She talks to me every day... I love Her so very much!
Quote from: peky on July 22, 2014, 05:38:05 PM
Hard not to believe when She talks to me every day... I love Her so very much!
I thank god everyday for me
I have a hard time with the concept of god or any religion. My personal believe is religion or spirituality are very personal things. God, gods, goddesses or whatever people believe is what they deal with. If you are Christian you follow your book and do your ritual or whatever you need when you die you go to heaven. You believe in Buddhism you go thru the cycles of life and death. And so on with other religions. Not sure if this has to do with the topic but yeah finally on to the topic.
For me no I don't believe in God. Or any god. I tried the whole church thing from 16-19 I never once heard anything that made me feel like the stories of the bible weren't just gross exaggerations of people's accounts of what was heard and said. I can understand that some of the morality issues are important, and the bible does have good concepts but as a whole I can't get behind outdated beliefs.
Also "If Lot was righteous, I think I'd rather not be" very much rings true for me.
I used to believe in a personal god. I was a member of a mainline christian church for about 20 years. However I have found much of what they believed about god and much of the worldview held by these churches and their members to be wrong (imho). This leaves me doubting whether they - or I - really believed in a real god.
Since discovering I am trans 6 months ago I find the concept of a caring god hard to grasp. Why would s/he do this to me? Perhaps after I transition I will have the room to admit the existence of a god. Right now I have to go with agnostic.
Quote from: f_Anna_tastic on July 10, 2014, 11:17:11 AM
I'm an Atheist.
I've never seen any evidence for a god or gods
The point is to believe WITHOUT evidence, I mean we asks for signs but do they ever get answered? Point is, that's why it's called faith.
Quote from: ThePersona on July 22, 2014, 10:31:10 PM
The point is to believe WITHOUT evidence, I mean we asks for signs but do they ever get answered? Point is, that's why it's called faith.
And therein lies the problem, or at least a major problem for many people. One can have faith that Grasshoppers will eventually take over, but faith is nothing more than an 'unfounded belief'. People had faith that the planet was flat, at one time.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs, but the whole 'faith' argument is so flawed. I can have faith that I will eventually become filthy rich, but what are the odds of that for a regular ole American? Not too good.
It's tough when people walk up with a book, tell you to read it and have faith that it's all true. Never mind that a great deal of it can't possibly be true. I look back and am appalled at all the attrocities that have been committed by religion, it's sad.
I respect spirituality far more than religion. In my eyes, religion is a business...
No offense meant to anyone, just a conversation. :)
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 23, 2014, 02:49:28 PM
And therein lies the problem, or at least a major problem for many people. One can have faith that Grasshoppers will eventually take over, but faith is nothing more than an 'unfounded belief'. People had faith that the planet was flat, at one time.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs, but the whole 'faith' argument is so flawed. I can have faith that I will eventually become filthy rich, but what are the odds of that for a regular ole American? Not too good.
It's tough when people walk up with a book, tell you to read it and have faith that it's all true. Never mind that a great deal of it can't possibly be true. I look back and am appalled at all the attrocities that have been committed by religion, it's sad.
I respect spirituality far more than religion. In my eyes, religion is a business...
No offense meant to anyone, just a conversation. :)
You are extremely worng in that as asessment Khaleesie, It won't be grasshopper it'll be cockroaches. They can supposedly survive a nuclear holocaust. And that's probably gonna be what wipes us out. ;)
I definately agree with you on riligion being a bif business, probably way more profitable than normal businesses and coporations. They don't have to pay taxes.
Quote from: Kaydee on July 22, 2014, 08:00:19 PM
I used to believe in a personal god. I was a member of a mainline christian church for about 20 years. However I have found much of what they believed about god and much of the worldview held by these churches and their members to be wrong (imho). This leaves me doubting whether they - or I - really believed in a real god.
Since discovering I am trans 6 months ago I find the concept of a caring god hard to grasp. Why would s/he do this to me? Perhaps after I transition I will have the room to admit the existence of a god. Right now I have to go with agnostic.
This unfortunatle is the big proble that I see with religions. People get fed up with what that organization thinks pr believes or the veil is lifted from their eyes and they just feel something isn't quite right or they see just how many people don't practice what they preach.
This is the problem if there is a God, plenty of organized religions that seem to have all the answer claim it is God that gave them the answers. God doesn't endorse religions I believe, as a matter of fact the Book of Revelation pretty much states this and the Churches will be judged. Like i say everybody judges God by these organized relgions and when they become disenchanted with them they end up blaming God. I know I have been one of them in the past. Most people relate God to these establishments when there is really very little God in them. It's mainly words that were written thousand of years ago. I ripped a Bible up to show a "true" Christian that the gates of Hell wouldn't open and swallow me, unfortunately he thought I as posessed but that's been 15 or 16 years ago and I'm still here.
As for an afterlife and the consciousness surviving outside of the body, I have some sort of proof through EVPs that something intellegent is reacting to questions I ask, or on a few quite clear answers.
I'm agnostic because I believe absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but I will, if I find there is one, ask what KIND OF SICK F**K makes transsexuals and allows someone to live this life of pain, misery, depression, and self-hatred. One that doesn't care or one that's a giant dick and get their jollies off watching.
Agnostic
Some would say I am a 'fence-sitter' but I just think it's reasonable. If I had to worship something it would be sun: It has no gender ,I love the warmth on my skin and it punishes me if I sunbathe without lotion ;D
Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 04:25:08 PM
I'm agnostic because I believe absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but I will, if I find there is one, ask what KIND OF SICK F**K makes transsexuals and allows someone to live this life of pain, misery, depression, and self-hatred. One that doesn't care or one that's a giant dick and get their jollies off watching.
You make a really good point and I used to feel the same way too. Yeah and it is messed up and being trans led me to look at different possiblities in the realms of Psycholgy, reincarnation and a bunch of other stuff that seems to be left out of more modern mainstream religion.
If you really sit back and think about it though, who really is the sick ones? God or the society we live in or culture of the area or the warped minds of man. We have the technology to change genders. Even if not, if society could accept us as our inner true spiritul gender, as other certain cultures and societies have in the past, would we hate a Creator or ourselves near as much? I think a lot of hate is misdirected toward a Creator instead of that which persecutes us publicly, laughs at us behind our backs Makes us the "joke" and really haven't a clue of who they are even. God created our self awareness or Soul or Spirit or whatever else that allows us to think and be aware. Nature and the luck of the draw dictated what our bodies would be. We have the technology to be who we truly are, but still society has it's ignorance.
I agree but I'll still be pissed when I reach the Sumerlands, Heaven, Nirvana, wherever the hell it is because, science, whilst it can do wonders, can't give me the girlhood I've always wanted, it won't let me menstraute, bear children, grow breasts naturally; all the things I hope and wish for. Hopes, prayers, and wishes amount to so much pissing in the wind.
Sorry, I'm a wee bit pissy today.
Quote from: Jess42 on July 23, 2014, 05:25:33 PM
You make a really good point and I used to feel the same way too. Yeah and it is messed up and being trans led me to look at different possiblities in the realms of Psycholgy, reincarnation and a bunch of other stuff that seems to be left out of more modern mainstream religion.
If you really sit back and think about it though, who really is the sick ones? God or the society we live in or culture of the area or the warped minds of man. We have the technology to change genders. Even if not, if society could accept us as our inner true spiritul gender, as other certain cultures and societies have in the past, would we hate a Creator or ourselves near as much? I think a lot of hate is misdirected toward a Creator instead of that which persecutes us publicly, laughs at us behind our backs Makes us the "joke" and really haven't a clue of who they are even. God created our self awareness or Soul or Spirit or whatever else that allows us to think and be aware. Nature and the luck of the draw dictated what our bodies would be. We have the technology to be who we truly are, but still society has it's ignorance.
Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 05:33:56 PM
I agree but I'll still be pissed when I reach the Sumerlands, Heaven, Nirvana, wherever the hell it is because, science, whilst it can do wonders, can't give me the girlhood I've always wanted, it won't let me menstraute, bear children, grow breasts naturally; all the things I hope and wish for. Hopes, prayers, and wishes amount to so much pissing in the wind.
Sorry, I'm a wee bit pissy today.
That's OK. I'm pretty much the same but believe me I do not want periods, I can always adopt and be a mother if I find that special someone. Even as a male I can't have children so.... But I did grow natural breasts, little A cups, due to gynecomastia in my puberty. Secretly I liked it but it cause me so freakin' much joking, harrasment and such in school. Doctor mentioned breast removal and I used the old, "God made me this way so I'll stay this way" argument. But I still faced a lot of crap from it though. Yeah it would have been nice to grow up full female but when life pees in your cup add a little suger and sell it as lemonade.
Quote from: Jess42 on July 23, 2014, 05:45:53 PM
That's OK. I'm pretty much the same but believe me I do not want periods, I can always adopt and be a mother if I find that special someone. Even as a male I can't have children so.... But I did grow natural breasts, little A cups, due to gynecomastia in my puberty. Secretly I liked it but it cause me so freakin' much joking, harrasment and such in school. Doctor mentioned breast removal and I used the old, "God made me this way so I'll stay this way" argument. But I still faced a lot of crap from it though. Yeah it would have been nice to grow up full female but when life pees in your cup add a little suger and sell it as lemonade.
I'd be quite fine with having a period. It would mean I'm the really real me. I'll take the bad and the good.
I hate the idea of an infallible God, as I think my biological sex was a mistake and no idiot telling me I should love myself the way He made me will change that (I love my body, I just don't think I should be the one in it). Besides, how am I supposed to look up to someone so inhuman as to have no flaws? In the end, I'm not sure where I stand and I don't really care because the focus of my life is myself and the people I love. I'm not saying you can't balance that with a belief in God, but worship just isn't for me.
I am not sure if I believe in a God but I believe in good and evil and that good will eventually dominate the whole universe. And I feel like my soul will go into eternal heaven one day. I believe I am a part of the goodness or a part of God and so are
millions of other humans while others are evil or contaminated with the evil.
Quote from: Jess42 on July 23, 2014, 03:39:10 PM
You are extremely worng in that as asessment Khaleesie, It won't be grasshopper it'll be cockroaches. They can supposedly survive a nuclear holocaust. And that's probably gonna be what wipes us out. ;)
Hahahaha.......
Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 04:25:08 PM
I'm agnostic because I believe absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but I will, if I find there is one, ask what KIND OF SICK F**K makes transsexuals and allows someone to live this life of pain, misery, depression, and self-hatred. One that doesn't care or one that's a giant dick and get their jollies off watching.
There's far more questions that a theoretical diety should be asked besides that!!
As for absenence of evidence, OK, agnostic. Cool. So that means you 'just don't know'. Much in the way atheism, the 'belief' doesn't really affect you, so what's the harm? Right?
I thought about that a long time ago, and decided that I want to pick a side. ;)
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 25, 2014, 03:38:25 PM
Hahahaha.......
There's far more questions that a theoretical diety should be asked besides that!!
As for absenence of evidence, OK, agnostic. Cool. So that means you 'just don't know'. Much in the way atheism, the 'belief' doesn't really affect you, so what's the harm? Right?
I thought about that a long time ago, and decided that I want to pick a side. ;)
Belief has caused no end of harm so therein lies my hostility towards organized religion. Religion is like having a penis. It's all well and good to have one but I don't want one of my own or someone else waving one in my face.
I'm agnostic in the old sense of the words: meaning I can neither prove or disprove therefore I can neither believe or disbelieve. I vaccilate between pragmatic and temporal agnosticism but I maintain a strong antipathy towards religion: Abrahamic in particular.
Fair enough. :)
I think we limit ourselves to either atheism or creationism. Things aren't always so black and white. One side of the argument is that if there's no measurable proof of some kind of eternal sapience that governs the universe then it doesn't exist while the other side insists that there is such a thing, it's male, and is somehow an anthropomorphic entity that is both Love and Wrath. The idea that "God" could simply be consciousness and energy that makes up all things sentient and non-sentient — including ourselves — has been turned into blasphemy by the church or just New Age balderdash. I don't think it has to be either.
I think the firm belief in a deity is just as naive as completely dismissing all possibility of higher, supernal intelligence, because spirituality just isn't something you can measure, but it is something you can experience. We all put names to those experiences, but religion and scientism just can't let go of ego long enough or suspend disbelief long enough allow for new understandings and perspectives. It all comes down to fear.
Also, a lot of mythology (Christianity included) could very well be talking about events that were far more "tangible" than gods, angels, and talking snakes. It's all in the symbolism.
So, personally, my belief is centered on Western mystery traditions that explore all avenues by blending scientific thought with mystical insight. The method of science, the aim of religion. Separating the two is like dividing the balance between masculinity and femininity, or the Right Brain and Left Brain. A fun way of exploring this concept is to watch The Dark Crystal. :)
Quote from: sororcaeli on July 28, 2014, 08:45:36 PM
I think we limit ourselves to either atheism or creationism. Things aren't always so black and white. One side of the argument is that if there's no measurable proof of some kind of eternal sapience that governs the universe then it doesn't exist while the other side insists that there is such a thing, it's male, and is somehow an anthropomorphic entity that is both Love and Wrath. The idea that "God" could simply be consciousness and energy that makes up all things sentient and non-sentient — including ourselves — has been turned into blasphemy by the church or just New Age balderdash. I don't think it has to be either.
I think the firm belief in a deity is just as naive as completely dismissing all possibility of higher, supernal intelligence, because spirituality just isn't something you can measure, but it is something you can experience. We all put names to those experiences, but religion and scientism just can't let go of ego long enough or suspend disbelief long enough allow for new understandings and perspectives. It all comes down to fear.
Also, a lot of mythology (Christianity included) could very well be talking about events that were far more "tangible" than gods, angels, and talking snakes. It's all in the symbolism.
So, personally, my belief is centered on Western mystery traditions that explore all avenues by blending scientific thought with mystical insight. The method of science, the aim of religion. Separating the two is like dividing the balance between masculinity and femininity, or the Right Brain and Left Brain. A fun way of exploring this concept is to watch The Dark Crystal. :)
OK, lets say for a second that there is some energy that actually created the universe and thus the humans, why should I feel the need to worship them?
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 29, 2014, 09:52:54 AM
OK, lets say for a second that there is some energy that actually created the universe and thus the humans, why should I feel the need to worship them?
God, I dislike that word so much when it comes to Spirtuality. I would rather think that God would have us try to understand and be enlightened about ourselves, the universe, creation and evolution and not so much worshipping. The word worship sort of gives me the impression of fear and I do believe it is about time we stopped fearing so much and shed that fear and truly try to be enlightened about such things. With science and a Spiritual awareness and context, not religious but an awareness that consciousness may be able exist without a body, we may have whole other worlds opened up before us.
Just look into the Multiverse theory and how whole demensions may exist simultaneously at different resonances. Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku on youtube mentions it even.
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 29, 2014, 09:52:54 AM
OK, lets say for a second that there is some energy that actually created the universe and thus the humans, why should I feel the need to worship them?
Absolutely not. Worship sets you BENEATH this energy rather than PART of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with being devotional, though, because that really has nothing to do with worship. Devotion is an inner thing that you do for yourself and your connection to the divine, however you feel like defining it. Worship is really quite counterproductive to spirituality.
Every man and every woman is a star.
Liber AL vel Legis
Hear, hear! 93s
Quote from: Jess42 on July 29, 2014, 10:26:58 AM
God, I dislike that word so much when it comes to Spirtuality. I would rather think that God would have us try to understand and be enlightened about ourselves, the universe, creation and evolution and not so much worshipping. The word worship sort of gives me the impression of fear and I do believe it is about time we stopped fearing so much and shed that fear and truly try to be enlightened about such things. With science and a Spiritual awareness and context, not religious but an awareness that consciousness may be able exist without a body, we may have whole other worlds opened up before us.
Just look into the Multiverse theory and how whole demensions may exist simultaneously at different resonances. Theoretical Physicist Michio Kaku on youtube mentions it even.
Quote from: sororcaeli on July 29, 2014, 04:54:03 PM
Absolutely not. Worship sets you BENEATH this energy rather than PART of it. I don't think there's anything wrong with being devotional, though, because that really has nothing to do with worship. Devotion is an inner thing that you do for yourself and your connection to the divine, however you feel like defining it. Worship is really quite counterproductive to spirituality.
Awesome, I like your 'take' on things. However, the mainstream religions do refer to it as worship. You are supposed to be god-fearing and such. Again, I don't believe in any of this sort of thing, however I find the conversations to be enlightening especially when I hear more down to earth paradigms like those I've quoted above.
One of my complaints is that if someone were to actually live by the paradigm of being a good person and all the things that entails, the fact that I don't believe means I would be smited or left out of 'heaven' and such types of punishment. that belief seems rather un-god-like to me. If he wants people to be good, then cool. If he wants people to worship or believe or fear him, I'm not good with that, hypothetically speaking.
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 30, 2014, 03:06:49 PM
One of my complaints is that if someone were to actually live by the paradigm of being a good person and all the things that entails, the fact that I don't believe means I would be smited or left out of 'heaven' and such types of punishment. that belief seems rather un-god-like to me. If he wants people to be good, then cool. If he wants people to worship or believe or fear him, I'm not good with that, hypothetically speaking.
I think our ongoing dilemma is that we don't stop and decide for ourselves what "God" is and base everything on someone else's idea. Hardcore atheists are really bad about that, especially when they take quotes from the Bible out of context to try and prove a point. One such example is from Psalm 137, verse 9:
"Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." Instead of reading the whole psalm and understanding it to be a lament of a people against the destruction of Jerusalem, they take that one quote and say, "SEE! CHRISTIANS CONDONE INFANTICIDE!" Puhlease...
There are some wacky Christians out there, but they didn't invent the Abrahamic religions. Plus, the Bible isn't
Christianity For Dummies; it's a book of parables, and it's full of symbolism and metaphor. It's like a double-edged sword: one side contains a secret history and the other side is a tall tale that the masses take literally. Plus, it's my opinion that the Old Testament and New Testament are speaking from two very different perspectives.
The OT was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic which both have very symbolic alphabets, so when they say "elohim" that actually translates into the plural, "gods" while "el" is "god". Think of Superman's name: Kal-El. So, all of the judgmental, wrath-like tendencies you see in those stories is really more like the behavior of a mortal being... perhaps from another world? I think that's far more plausible than angels and demons.
The NT was written in Greek, which is also full of symbolism. You can even apply Jewish numerology (gematria) to certain words that correlate and they each add up to the same number. For example, the Greek word for 'Will' is Thelema. It's numerological number is 93. The Greek word for 'Love' is Agape. It also adds up to 93. Together, Will and Love become the force of liberty and individual strength. Not the lower will of the ego, but the higher Will, or divine Will.
You'll find that Abrahamic religions that have eliminated their mysticism speak against any kind of direct spiritual connection and insist that you go through an avatar or a priest. This isn't the rule of a God of Love; this is the rule of men.
Anyway, sorry for the giant history lesson. This stuff has been an obsession of mine for almost 15 years now. The main point is, who cares what the Christian God is on about, because it's either a) a fabrication, or b) symbolic of something mortal and powerful, human or non-human, posing as gods. :)
Love is the Law. Love under Will.
You must keep in mind that the events in the Bible took place in a much different time where people's knowledge of life and the universe was rather limited. Also, the people were less educated, hygene and food preservation was minimal, and they required more structure in their daily lives. God is still omnipresent but he relates to us today on a different level.
I appreciate some people find faith personally valuable but I'm an agnostic atheist. I don't believe in any of the thousands of deities described by cultures across history but I also don't believe in certain knowledge. As a result, I consider it technically possible an entity matching the definition of a deity could exist but also think it's almost infinitely improbable that humans have ever interacted with such things since there's never been any proof that meets the standards of evidential rigour I try to use. Of course, I could be wrong about that but if there had been then I expect I would've read about it in my scientific textbooks and journals.
I do not value endless speculation when the speculation is unfalsifiable. I'd rather move on to questions humanity can attempt to answer with the tools presently available. If other people think the speculation warrants their time then I entirely support them being entitled to that, they have the right to seek their own happiness and judge what's best for it. However, the second they step beyond that then I have a rather large problem, irrespective of whether that's religious people, anti-vaccine activists, homeopaths, psychics, anthropogenic climate change sceptics, or countless other groups.
Quote from: sororcaeli on July 30, 2014, 04:59:11 PM
I think our ongoing dilemma is that we don't stop and decide for ourselves what "God" is and base everything on someone else's idea. Hardcore atheists are really bad about that, especially when they take quotes from the Bible out of context to try and prove a point. One such example is from Psalm 137, verse 9: "Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." Instead of reading the whole psalm and understanding it to be a lament of a people against the destruction of Jerusalem, they take that one quote and say, "SEE! CHRISTIANS CONDONE INFANTICIDE!" Puhlease...
There are some wacky Christians out there, but they didn't invent the Abrahamic religions. Plus, the Bible isn't Christianity For Dummies; it's a book of parables, and it's full of symbolism and metaphor. It's like a double-edged sword: one side contains a secret history and the other side is a tall tale that the masses take literally. Plus, it's my opinion that the Old Testament and New Testament are speaking from two very different perspectives.
The OT was originally written in Hebrew and Aramaic which both have very symbolic alphabets, so when they say "elohim" that actually translates into the plural, "gods" while "el" is "god". Think of Superman's name: Kal-El. So, all of the judgmental, wrath-like tendencies you see in those stories is really more like the behavior of a mortal being... perhaps from another world? I think that's far more plausible than angels and demons.
The NT was written in Greek, which is also full of symbolism. You can even apply Jewish numerology (gematria) to certain words that correlate and they each add up to the same number. For example, the Greek word for 'Will' is Thelema. It's numerological number is 93. The Greek word for 'Love' is Agape. It also adds up to 93. Together, Will and Love become the force of liberty and individual strength. Not the lower will of the ego, but the higher Will, or divine Will.
You'll find that Abrahamic religions that have eliminated their mysticism speak against any kind of direct spiritual connection and insist that you go through an avatar or a priest. This isn't the rule of a God of Love; this is the rule of men.
Anyway, sorry for the giant history lesson. This stuff has been an obsession of mine for almost 15 years now. The main point is, who cares what the Christian God is on about, because it's either a) a fabrication, or b) symbolic of something mortal and powerful, human or non-human, posing as gods. :)
I couldn't agree with you more. Well said.
QuoteI think our ongoing dilemma is that we don't stop and decide for ourselves what "God" is and base everything on someone else's idea.
I have two possible thoughts on the subject:
a) We're here due to a huge number of accidents that cause full evolution.
b) Some thing created something that we evolved into.
b1) If this is the case, then cool, thanks, whom/whatever. But I don't believe I owe you anything, anymore than people or a race of people owe the descendants of wronged people.
Does a child of a set of parents intrinsically owe their parents anything because they made the child? No. People love and respect the parents that have earned that behavior. If my mom had me, dumped me and I made it on my own, then I owe her nothing.
I dunno, just my current thoughts.
--hugs--
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 31, 2014, 03:32:38 PM
I have two possible thoughts on the subject:
a) We're here due to a huge number of accidents that cause full evolution.
b) Some thing created something that we evolved into.
b1) If this is the case, then cool, thanks, whom/whatever. But I don't believe I owe you anything, anymore than people or a race of people owe the descendants of wronged people.
Does a child of a set of parents intrinsically owe their parents anything because they made the child? No. People love and respect the parents that have earned that behavior. If my mom had me, dumped me and I made it on my own, then I owe her nothing.
I dunno, just my current thoughts.
--hugs--
Yeah, I wouldn't claim that we are owed any explanations from on high, wherever/whatever that is. Besides, that removes the mystery and the curiosity to delve deeper into oneself. Without mystery we wouldn't have philosophy, or even art. The Self where the best truth is; not some special book. Our holy books are full of lessons and teachings, and they are worthy of our attention, but they are not absolute.
I think your (a) and (b) are analogous. If you check out the work of Lloyd Pye you'll see some fascinating stuff on the existence of four different hominid types that still exist and how they're only partially related to homo sapien. Pye suggests a genetic [alien] interference, and there's plenty of evidence to see how this could have been possible. As far as there being some kind of celestial/supernatural creation event set in motion by a deity, that's where I become atheist.
Another great speaker is Mark Passio who touches on the subject of the abandonment by our supposed extraterrestrial ancestors, and how we are still subconsciously suffering from it. Whether you can believe in that stuff or not it's still worth the listen.
Check it out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCnrn6LkUo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiCnrn6LkUo)
I'm an Episcopalian, I believe in God.
From Buddhism to raelians to Scientology to Christianity to Islam to mormons and beyond. It's all just comic book characters to me, written by "men" for "men" as a form of entertainment in the dark ages (or modern times) when there was nothing better to do and no one smart enough to question authority.
I have found that living without religion is itself a form of freedom since I no longer have to conform to some ancient rules or other social silliness.
Could there be a god? Perhaps. Is it very likely or is everything just chance? I would say that random chance over billions of years is more likely than a 6000 year old earth with fake dinosaur bones buried in it to keep us on our toes lest we doubt the beliefs. That's my take,
Some of this has been excerpted from writing I have done here and elsewhere.
Do I believe in God? It is important to me to separate the concepts of religion with the idea of spirituality. Acceptance is essential to the latter, not to the former. For me there can not be a connection to the infinite sans acceptance, and without that connection I am unable to live authentically. To put it another way there are no inauthentic paths to acceptance, and without acceptance, authenticity is impossible.
I cannot live a life of self deception (denial if you will) about who I am and how I see my place on this amazing planet if I am unable or unwilling to face myself. I cannot embrace my sexuality, I cannot express my gender, I cannot find my core without acknowledging that I am greater than the sum of my parts and that that piece of the universe inside is what gives me my humanity. Connectedness with people and my environment are a definitive part of my growth as a person. I think that without connections, I am doomed to psychopathy. My life may be rich materially, but it will be barren emotionally. Without seeking to expand my connection to every part of my environment I will not grow and evolve and my spiritual life will stagnate.
I identify as a woman. I usually but not always, identify as female. I am in transition. Is that bogus? I don't think so. I think it is the expression of who I authentically am. I wish I could have figured this out long ago. If I had, would I have moved decisively to the feminine? Maybe, I very much like it over here, but maybe I could have expressed myself outside of a bimodal space and found joy there. I do not think that living a life of gender fluidity needs to be less authentic nor less grounded in spirituality and acceptance than any other. There are lots of reasons to not fully transition, not the least of which is that both ends of the gender dichotomy are lousy approximations for who someone is.
At my time of life I do feel pressure to become authentic, become female, and to do it now! I fear that I will lose my last, best chance at finding both my temporal and spiritual self if I am not decisive. If I were to die without living and being Julie, that would be the greatest and saddest piece of futility that I can think of. I cannot let this slip from my grasp, no matter the cost. That is my reality and I am comfortable with it. Someone else may and probably does, experience life quite differently but no less legitimately.
This summer I have been rocketed into a new dimension of living. I have experienced grace, I have connected with some of the most remarkably outwardly centered people I have ever known, and I have spent hours and days exploring my spiritual nature both here and in other, both secular and sacred venues. I am I think, at the core a spiritual person. What I mean by that is that I am capable of connecting to the essence of everyone I come into contact with. I am touched by more than just the temporal, physical, existential reality of this chunk of spacetime that I inhabit. I am also touched by the spirit of that reality.
I have felt that intuitive connectedness before; not in the context of gender exploration, but in the context of social change. I have worked in soup kitchens, led AA meetings in prisons, participated in social justice and peace initiatives for my entire adult life. In each of those worlds I have known and been known by people whose essential goodness moved my life into the direction of light. Some of my mentors have been deeply and sincerely religious in their beliefs and creed. Some have been secular but just as illuminated by love.
So what is the result of a life with a potpourri of influences on my attitudes and beliefs? I feel enveloped by hope and connected to an infinite goodness. If you wish to call this God consciousness I have no objection. Where I part ways with my more devout fellow travelers is embracing dogma and ritual as the mechanism of connecting to the universe. I eschew supernatural explanations, particularly those that proclaim a single truth, or who find solace in proclaiming any seeker as a heretic. The concept of God for me does not require anthropomorphism, but only the desire to place service above self, love above desire, and generosity above greed.
The relationships with people and with my environment that change me always have a component of giving, of sharing, of placing the well being of others, if not ahead, at least on a par with my own needs and desires. I hope that comes through here, I fervently hope this comes through in my daily interactions. I am by no means saintly. I am by measure impatient, tired, depressed, and angry with people, places and things. What I am discovering is that transition from persona to person provides relief for me from the bondage of self centeredness. In my case at least, the journey to authenticity is also a journey into spiritual growth. The two seem to be inextricably intertwined. I am on a pilgrim's path, but the destination is neither defined, nor does it need definition. I am grateful for the journey, and I am grateful to everyone who has been my teacher, friend, and muse.
Fair Winds and Calm Seas,
Julie
Short answer: No!
Yes I am Christian. I've been though to much and have seen to much to not believe in God.
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on July 23, 2014, 02:49:28 PM
And therein lies the problem, or at least a major problem for many people. One can have faith that Grasshoppers will eventually take over, but faith is nothing more than an 'unfounded belief'. People had faith that the planet was flat, at one time.
I don't begrudge people their beliefs, but the whole 'faith' argument is so flawed. I can have faith that I will eventually become filthy rich, but what are the odds of that for a regular ole American? Not too good.
It's tough when people walk up with a book, tell you to read it and have faith that it's all true. Never mind that a great deal of it can't possibly be true. I look back and am appalled at all the attrocities that have been committed by religion, it's sad.
I respect spirituality far more than religion. In my eyes, religion is a business...
No offense meant to anyone, just a conversation. :)
Its called faith, My prayers have been answered on numerous occasions. So your arguement is flawed but I respect that not everyone has the same beliefs as me.
Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 06:05:06 PM
I'd be quite fine with having a period. It would mean I'm the really real me. I'll take the bad and the good.
Not all women experience periods though.
Quote from: Wynternight on July 23, 2014, 04:25:08 PM
I'm agnostic because I believe absence of evidence does not equal evidence of absence but I will, if I find there is one, ask what KIND OF SICK F**K makes transsexuals and allows someone to live this life of pain, misery, depression, and self-hatred. One that doesn't care or one that's a giant dick and get their jollies off watching.
God didn't do that though the devil controls sickness and birth defects not God that clearly states that in the bible. Yea I use to ask the same thing but your not suppose to question God.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2014, 01:55:13 PM
Not all women experience periods though.
I'm well aware of that.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2014, 01:52:46 PM
Its called faith, My prayers have been answered on numerous occasions. So your arguement is flawed but I respect that not everyone has the same beliefs as me.
Wow, I'm wrong because coincidences occurred in your life? And it's not possible that those things would have occurred without 'prayer'? OK
Quote from: Khaleesie Fiona on August 27, 2014, 03:06:11 PM
Wow, I'm wrong because coincidences occurred in your life? And it's not possible that those things would have occurred without 'prayer'? OK
Thoes were answers from God and I am damn sure not gonna argue with you. Your wrong period but as I already stated I know everyone doesn't believe in the same thing I do. God doesn't need anyone to defend him so I am not gonna. You don't gotta come at me like that, Yea I can understand why you would think its stupid to believe in God. But I have bern through stuff that proves someones up there. I'm not even suppose to be alive right know from an accident that happend a while so yes that fustrates me when people like you don't even believe theres a slight possibility I mean because I also believe in science but its more so God.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2014, 01:59:30 PM
God didn't do that though the devil controls sickness and birth defects not God that clearly states that in the bible. Yea I use to ask the same thing but your not suppose to question God.
:D ::)
Wow.
So, I suppose that my premature birth that required me to live in an incubator and also required the insertion of a Ventriculoperitoneal Shunt was "the devil's work", eh? So, would that mean that: 1. My mother was somehow an agent of Satan since I was born a three month preemie? and 2. I suppose that the doctors were also doing the Devil's work when they performed the many shunt revisions?
Let me guess...if I had died at six months old or prior to my 18th birthday, (as the docs told my mother when they sent home after six months since they felt there was nothing more that could be done for me at that point.) that would have been, "God's will", right?
Oh wait...I bet you're going to flip flop and say that "It's God's will" that I am still here now. Never mind that pesky modern medicine.
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on August 27, 2014, 03:31:42 PM
:D ::)
Wow.
So, I suppose that my premature birth that required me to live in an incubator and also required the insertion of a Ventriculoperitoneal Shunt was "the devil's work", eh? So, would that mean that: 1. My mother was somehow an agent of Satan since I was born a three month preemie? and 2. I suppose that the doctors were also doing the Devil's work when they performed the many shunt revisions?
Let me guess...if I had died at six months old or prior to my 18th birthday, (as the docs told my mother when they sent home after six months since they felt there was nothing more that could be done for me at that point.) that would have been, "God's will", right?
Oh wait...I bet you're going to flip flop and say that "It's God's will" that I am still here now. Never mind that pesky modern medicine.
You can believe what you wanna believe but either way your gonna be judged on judgement day as we as everyone else. And yea it's Gods will, Its Gods will that I'm still here and I hit an artery in my brain. I had a lazy eye in my right eye and if you look at my right eye in my avi its no longer there and I never had surgery because my mom didn't want me to get it. So how you explain that haha lmaooooo and don't say luck because I am just gonna lmfao lol. You and that other women are not even worth arguing with real talk.
So, you chose to not answer my question?
Typical.
Yes, I whole heartedly believe in God. There are entirely too many incidents in my past that were clearly controlled by God; He protected me or caused me to make a change in my life for His purpose. There is no other plausible explanation.
What I generally have no use for is organized religion. People often confuse organized religion and a personal relationship with God and they are not the same.
I also believe in live and let live so whatever your own beliefs are on this subject is fine with me.
I believe there is something. Some people call it God, I prefer to call it balance. Yes there are happening terrible things but there are also happening great things. How could we ever recognize the best of things if there isn't a worst of things. Thats what made me an optimist for most of the time. If something terrible happens, for example a family member died, I'le remember what he did and the great moments we had and how we are united as a family in those times. If its more personal and I get alone and sad, I see it as it means its time I figure myself out. I know there is no messias or some gigantic opportunity thats suddenly going to pop up, its up to myself and being real with myself about it is what made me feel strong. With that mindset, if I ever encounter a problem, I look into myself and that feels like some giant force is pushing me in the air and directly makes me realize that I always can do everything no matter what as long as I act.
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on August 27, 2014, 03:43:29 PM
So, you chose to not answer my question?
Typical.
I answered yours you haven't answered mine how do you explain my eye being straight oh wait let me guess you can't.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2014, 04:09:00 PM
I answered yours you haven't answered mine how do you explain my eye being straight oh wait let me guess you can't.
You can say whatever the hell you want.
I don't care. You are a loser.
You aren't any better than the moronic zealots that I've dealt with since 1988.
I've come across a tiny minority of people that were religious, but they were super cool.
They actually had the ability to think. You just come off as the typical religious robot.
And I don't give a damn about what you or anyone else thinks about this post. You shove your rubbish down people's throats all of the time. When people challenge on it, you just spout the same crap that I've heard for decades now.
:icon_pissed:
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on August 27, 2014, 04:17:01 PM
You can say whatever the hell you want.
I don't care. You are a loser.
You aren't any better than the moronic zealots that I've dealt with since 1988.
I've come across a tiny minority of people that were religious, but they were super cool.
They actually had the ability to think. You just come off as the typical religious robot.
And I don't give a damn about what you or anyone else thinks about this post. You shove your rubbish down people's throats all of the time. When people challenge on it, you just spout the same crap that I've heard for decades now.
:icon_pissed:
Yea what ever. You can't answer me my point exactly.
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on August 27, 2014, 04:17:01 PM
You can say whatever the hell you want.
I don't care. You are a loser.
You aren't any better than the moronic zealots that I've dealt with since 1988.
I've come across a tiny minority of people that were religious, but they were super cool.
They actually had the ability to think. You just come off as the typical religious robot.
And I don't give a damn about what you or anyone else thinks about this post. You shove your rubbish down people's throats all of the time. When people challenge on it, you just spout the same crap that I've heard for decades now.
:icon_pissed:
And actually I am more liberal and I am trying to be respectful to bad you aren't.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2014, 04:20:15 PM
And actually I am more liberal and I am trying to be respectful to bad you aren't.
You're an idiot. You don't even know what liberal means. Nor do you know the true meaning of respect. You only "respect" them when they agree with you.
Quote from: Laura Squirrel on August 27, 2014, 04:22:38 PM
You're an idiot. You don't even know what liberal means. Nor do you know the true meaning of respect. You only "respect" them when they agree with you.
No thats actually not true lol but ok and I am far from an idiot lmaooooo haha, If you ask all of my family and friends they will tell that I am one of the most respectful kids they know. But again ok whatever you say. I am not even gonna argue with you its pointless.
Based on how amazingly impossible the universe is, I do, yes, believe in God. My brain, tho, like many others, does not comprehend how it would work though... As I am usually a person of logic.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2014, 04:26:54 PM
No thats actually not true lol but ok and I am far from an idiot lmaooooo haha, If you ask all of my family and friends they will tell that I am one of the most respectful kids they know. But again ok whatever you say. I am not even gonna argue with you its pointless.
Just saying, people say a lot of things like that with no way to back it up, due to the fact they think they can get away with not showing evidence. And it's always said in the exact same style you just said it.
Quote from: iiMTF on August 27, 2014, 04:32:20 PM
Just saying, people say a lot of things like that with no way to back it up, due to the fact they think they can get away with not showing evidence. And it's always said in the exact same style you just said it.
Well I am not disrespectful I am actually a pretty good kid. And I did give her evidence but she didn't answer it.
Quote from: iiMTF on August 27, 2014, 04:32:20 PM
Just saying, people say a lot of things like that with no way to back it up, due to the fact they think they can get away with not showing evidence. And it's always said in the exact same style you just said it.
Exactly. It's the same broken record style of thought over and over.
Quote from: Brandon on August 27, 2014, 04:40:50 PM
Well I am not disrespectful I am actually a pretty good kid. And I did give her evidence but she didn't answer it.
You can drop that, dude. It has nothing to do with "respect". Your supposed connection between intelligence and respect is invalid.
Woah, relax all, the question is 'Do you believe in God?'. Its personal...
For combat training go play call of duty :P
Ugh this verification: computer seems to think it knows the answer better then me, what a joke ;D
Ok all, respect is out of control here.
I have locked the thread for everyone to calm down.
24 hrs is the locked limit. Will reopen then.
Ok going to un lock as promised.
Just keep it to topic, keep it peaceful and respectful.
If it does gets out of hand please send a report asap.
Listen to Izzy or otherwise....
Soldier, see that topic? Take it out!!
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 28, 2014, 07:43:51 PM
Listen to Izzy or otherwise....
Soldier, see that topic? Take it out!!
Charlie don't lock topics!
I love the smell of locked topics. They smell like...victory.
Quote from: Wynternight on August 28, 2014, 07:46:21 PM
Charlie don't lock topics!
OK, that one made me laugh!! :laugh:
Quote from: iiMTF on August 28, 2014, 08:07:05 PM
I'm just confused.
It was a famous line from the movie Apocalypse Now, just messed with a little. Watch the movie, you will understand. ;)
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 28, 2014, 08:10:50 PM
It was a famous line from the movie Apocalypse Now, just messed with a little. Watch the movie, you will understand. ;)
I tend to prefer to avoid things with apocalypse in the title. After all, I almost exploded after my science teacher forced me to watch a documentary on black holes.
I believe in God. (:
I believe in God.. I have to have a higher standard in my life to look up to, and try to be like, its made me a much better person..
I believe in the bible, when its read in correct context.. I don't believe the bible has been translated correctly over the centuries, because it was done by man, and everything man touches becomes corrupt.. The bible is used as a weapon too often to condemn and judge, and not enough as a message of love and hope for the world..
That's my take on it... :)
I believe in God but something that has always confused me is that I believe God is a personal perception, an inner entity that leads to something far beyond our comprehension. But wars have been fought over this entity and a lot of people killed. Spanish inquisition, the Holy Crusades, The Salem Witch trials and so on. Whole civilizations have been wiped out over nothing more than perceptions and what is written in a book. :( When it is something that is so personal and pertains and is formed by a person's unique life experiences hardships and good times, feast and famine, good and evil and so on.
I don't perceive a God that is micro managing everyone's lives. Just waiting on prayers coming from people to be answered. But I can see where others may perceive that due to their life experiences. I can also see why others can't perceive God when some people seemed to be truly blessed and have good lives and others seem to be cursed. It really seems unfair and out of balance. Believe me I am the latter and one of the reason's that my perceptions of God are what they are.
I guess what I am saying is God or rather the perceptions of God is just as varied and unique as we as unique individuals are. From Nothing to All Encompassing. No rights or wrongs in the perceptions because I truly believe if we could understand and know exactly who or what God is, we couldn't handle it at this point in time. In the Gnostic Books, I can't remember which one but Christ himself says that the search for God begins within one's own self.
I believe in Jessica and Izzy, they directly affect my life in tangible ways, occasionally capriciously. ;)
j
I believe in God and God believes in me otherwise I would cease to exist.
I personally don't, but I also won't claim there is none.
I like to think that we(the human race and earth as a whole) are just some supreme being's little antfarm and sometimes a little supreme being shakes us up for fun when their parents aren't looking.
Quote from: ThePersona on July 22, 2014, 10:31:10 PM
The point is to believe WITHOUT evidence, I mean we asks for signs but do they ever get answered? Point is, that's why it's called faith.
That's called being an idiot. Faith is not a virtue.
Why would I ever believe in something without evidence?
Extraordinary claims, such as the existence of a deity, require extraordinary evidence. There is no evidence for God. Zero.
If you present me evidence of a god I would change my mind.
Quote from: mac1 on July 10, 2014, 11:39:21 AM
How do you expalain the formation of the solar system and the development of the earth and life on it? Yes, I support evolution to a great extent and believe that evolution and creationism coexist. However, what force do you believe is responsible or controlling in the formation?
Read a basic science text book. It is really quite simple but also majestically beautiful.
The solar system is like billion of other solar system, formed after the explosion of a star and ordered by gravity.
Life has had billions of years to evolve. Evolution is a scientific fact. People say that "It's just a theory" (and those who do don't grasp what a scientific theory is) well so is heliocentric theory: the idea that the earth orbits the sun. New evidence could emerge showing we don't orbit around the sun, but I sincerely doubt it.
Now,
Name a scientific theory which has later been replaced by a supernatural explanation?
Of course I believe in God! God is with us every moment of our lives. God loves us. Take a little time today, and reflect on what He has done for you. If you share your joys with Him, whether that may be starting hormones, SRS, etc. you will feel a great sense of peace. Even if your family has disowned you, God will never disown you, because He loves you! :)
Because the supernatural is by definition outside of reality. The null hypothesis can never be proved. It is solipsism, but a cherished, closely held and defended fallacy. God does not need to be defined in terms of magic. That which is real and has power need not be ephemeral. The trouble is that God has become narrowly defined as the God of the gaps, or worse just the God of desert tribes. Choose an understanding outside of that and you are labelled a heretic, or condemned as possessed.
The labeling and condemnation are specious. I fully defend the right of anyone to believe as they choose. I do part company when it is attempted to legislate those beliefs to oppress other humans, or inculcate sloppy thinking in children. If you want citations, I'll be glad to oblige, but women's health is an easy one. Religious education another.
Peace,
Julie
Quote from: Mark3 on August 28, 2014, 11:58:27 PM
I believe in God.. I have to have a higher standard in my life to look up to, and try to be like, its made me a much better person..
I believe in the bible, when its read in correct context.. I don't believe the bible has been translated correctly over the centuries, because it was done by man, and everything man touches becomes corrupt.. The bible is used as a weapon too often to condemn and judge, and not enough as a message of love and hope for the world..
That's my take on it... :)
The Bible is man's account of their experiences in light of their knowledbe at the time. Originally the stories were not written but passed down by word of mouth. The texts which comprise the Old Trstament were originally written in ancient Hebrew which did not contain any vowels, the vowels were inserted later in the translations. The texts which comprise the New Testament were originally written in ancient Greek. The translations of both were subject to man's knowledge of the time, the language, and other documents available at the time.
Keep in mind that the Bible as we know it did not exist in it's present form until much later. The tests included in the Bible are only a selection of the original writings which were available. Also, aditional pieces of those documents and other related documents have aided in the newer translations. Our faith allows allows us to accept the stories included in the Bible as being Devine inspired.
I believe that our scientific knowledge only serves to further our understanding of the creation.
My wife is a nurse, and often prays with her patients, if nothing else, it makes them feel better at the moment.. Its pretty well documented also that statistics show that the patients that pray or have others pray with them in the hospital have a higher and quicker recovery rate.. I'm not saying that's evidence of God, but its evidence of something good..
Quote from: Mark3 on August 29, 2014, 06:38:55 PM
My wife is a nurse, and often prays with her patients, if nothing else, it makes them feel better at the moment.. Its pretty well documented also that statistics show that the patients that pray or have others pray with them in the hospital have a higher and quicker recovery rate.. I'm not saying that's evidence of God, but its evidence of something good..
Exactly, I had a lazy eye when I was 5 and maybe because I was to young my parents didn't want me to get lazer eye surgery so they just prayed over it know if you seen me on the street and I told you I had a lazy eye you wouldn't believe it. I know not everyone believes in the same thing but its worth a thought.
I have had my own evidence with spirits, so there must be some sort of higher up type of force that some may claim is a God.
I am an atheist/pastafrian , imo if there was a god, i'll have such hate and anger stored in the deepest pit in my heart for him .
Jesus is my Lord
I absolutely believe in God; not sure about the "bible" though.
My thoughts and feelings about a god are mixed, my feelings on organised religion telling people how to think feel and behave are not.
God ? Which one ?
Does it really matter ?
Blind faith or intelligent conviction ?
People, due to their blind faith are beheading people. Someone else who believes in the same God, but different religion is dropping bombs on them in retaliation. God seems to be a bit quiet about the whole affair.
Hmmmmm.
I used to believe in something. But I really don't know anymore. ??? The more I think about it, the more paranormal investigations I do and what or who seems to be stuck and in misery, I just really don't know anymore. Time loops, distorted time from EMF fields, information holding minerals? I can't figure it out and I keep trying with no conclusive results. All I know is some people's prayers seem to be answered and mine never are. So yeah, God seems to exist for some and not for others. Not so much for me it seems. :(
I won't give him the satisfaction after making me trans.
(No.)
Quote from: sebster on September 27, 2014, 11:44:33 PM
I won't give him the satisfaction after making me trans.
(No.)
He didn't make you trans, I used to think the same thing.
Quote from: Jess42 on September 27, 2014, 11:19:44 PM
I used to believe in something. But I really don't know anymore. ??? The more I think about it, the more paranormal investigations I do and what or who seems to be stuck and in misery, I just really don't know anymore. Time loops, distorted time from EMF fields, information holding minerals? I can't figure it out and I keep trying with no conclusive results. All I know is some people's prayers seem to be answered and mine never are. So yeah, God seems to exist for some and not for others. Not so much for me it seems. :(
One thing you have to remember is that God does not work on anyone elses time he works on his own but its understandable to feel that way.
Even though I'm agnostic and I don't know who or what exists for sure, lately I've been hoping that God doesn't exist. He's been used as a weapon against me far too often lately and I'm sick of it. If this God or his followers are going to treat me like this, then I want nothing to do with him.
Quote from: Brandon on September 28, 2014, 03:03:15 PM
He didn't make you trans, I used to think the same thing.
Who did, the debil? If there's a god he's cruel and capricious. If the universe has sentience it has a sick sense of humour. I'm fairly certain it was the DES my mum took when she was pregnant with me. I'm quite firmly agnostic and despise organised religion.
Quote from: Wynternight on September 29, 2014, 01:24:45 AM
Who did, the debil? If there's a god he's cruel and capricious. If the universe has sentience it has a sick sense of humour. I'm fairly certain it was the DES my mum took when she was pregnant with me. I'm quite firmly agnostic and despise organised religion.
Yes its the devil you can laugh or argue me down but only the devil puts sickness, disease and birth defects on people God is just testing us to see if we can handle it, God never puts anything on you that you can't bare.
I do believe in God. I have questioned my belief throughout my life but now after miracles in my life I am firmly on the "God is real and I believe" camp.
I was baptized Presbyterian, but grew up around different faiths - Hinduism, Jainism, Islam, Buddhism, Baha'i, Judaism. I even have good friends who are atheists and agnostics. I love science and I don't think it is mutually exclusive of faith either.
As for making me trans, well I believe that God has a plan for me and he will guide me through. He hasn't failed me so far.
Quote from: Brandon on September 29, 2014, 06:00:56 AM
Yes its the devil you can laugh or argue me down but only the devil puts sickness, disease and birth defects on people God is just testing us to see if we can handle it, God never puts anything on you that you can't bare.
He failed in this one because I can't handle this. Thanks, bearded dude in the sky, thanks for nothing and kiss my hindquarters. Proselytize elsewhere.
I used to, when I was a kid. Because my parents believed in God and made me very scared of God.
Today I don't believe in God anymore. But I think it's possible that there's a God. The universe could exist in a computer.
So that would make the person who made the computer God, I guess?
I don't believeve in the Bible, though.
Quote from: ✰Fairy~Wishes✰ on September 29, 2014, 02:20:21 PM
I used to, when I was a kid. Because my parents believed in God and made me very scared of God.
Today I don't believe in God anymore. But I think it's possible that there's a God. The universe could exist in a computer.
So that would make the person who made the computer God, I guess?
I don't believeve in the Bible, though.
Spirituality has been reduced to such a simplistic, highly polarised ideal that when one religious depiction of God fails to give conviction and meaning to our lives we just shut down and stop believing anything. We all base our idea of God on Christianity: a male deity that is somehow jealous and vengeful and loving and compassionate at the same time. To think that God is something far less descriptive and personal seems to be difficult to do for many people. It actually requires one to contemplate deeply, but we're all too busy slaving away and watching American Idol.
The Bible has a lot of philosophical (and even mystical) value, but it is no authority on the divine. All that matters is how
you choose to connect to it. A religion that insults intelligence, inhibits individuality and personal liberty, and tries to sway you through fear is a religion to stay far, far away from. Religion and God are not mutually exclusive, and being spiritual is a personal experience. I was raised Christian, and it was my faith until I was 16, but I never abandoned my spirituality. I just found it elsewhere, and it only got stronger.
So, don't let a religion that failed you keep you from God, however you choose to define it. If God, to you, is simply the cosmos and the enormity of nature, then let that be your foundation. There is no right or wrong approach if light and love fill your being and you allow others to do the same.
"More than ever, it is time now for us to move from religiosity to spirituality, which means definitively replacing the sole belief in God with the knowledge of divine laws – that is, universal, natural, and spiritual laws. The well-being we seek, including on a material plane, is to be found in this knowledge and in the wisdom that ensues. An ancient Rosicrucian adage says, "It is from ignorance and ignorance alone that humans must free themselves." It is indeed at the origin of the worst things a person can do to oneself, to others, and to one's environment. It is also the source of different superstitions that demean humanity and prevent it from finding complete fulfillment. So give a spiritual direction to your life. In other words, do not be just a living thing, be a living soul."
— The Rosicrucian Appellatio Manifesto - http://www.rosicrucian.org/appellatio_manifesto/appellatio_manifesto.pdf
No, plain and simple.
I was thinking about writing some more but I'm sure it would just offend some people even if it's just my personal opinion and view on things... so I won't.
Quote from: Tossu-sama on October 03, 2014, 04:00:47 PM
No, plain and simple.
I was thinking about writing some more but I'm sure it would just offend some people even if it's just my personal opinion and view on things... so I won't.
Is your lack of belief due to some past experience, or based on any resentment for organised religion, or did you simply just conclude by your reasoning that any idea of God is preposterous? This isn't a hostile reply, I'm just curious. A lot of atheists I've talked to seem to arrive at their conclusions due to perceiving the God of Abraham as absurd and malevolent, and then from that point just lumping in all things metaphysical as just more of the same.
I have no problems with or judgments of atheists. I would consider myself one simply for the fact that I do not believe in a deity. I would consider myself more of a Pantheist, seeing "God' as impersonal and permeating all things without bias or favoritism, kind of like The Force. My particular spiritual path is Thelema which is easily adaptable by any perspective.
"The Method of Science; The Aim of Religion" is the motto of the Thelemic fraternal order of
The A.'.A.'..
Anyway, you should definitely expound upon your views, albeit tactfully. There are people here who are most definitely more sensitive than others. Everyone should be able to share their beliefs and how they arrived at them so that we can all better understand each other.
Quote from: sororcaeli on October 03, 2014, 07:30:09 PM
Is your lack of belief due to some past experience, or based on any resentment for organised religion, or did you simply just conclude by your reasoning that any idea of God is preposterous? This isn't a hostile reply, I'm just curious. A lot of atheists I've talked to seem to arrive at their conclusions due to perceiving the God of Abraham as absurd and malevolent, and then from that point just lumping in all things metaphysical as just more of the same.
I have no problems with or judgments of atheists. I would consider myself one simply for the fact that I do not believe in a deity. I would consider myself more of a Pantheist, seeing "God' as impersonal and permeating all things without bias or favoritism, kind of like The Force. My particular spiritual path is Thelema which is easily adaptable by any perspective.
"The Method of Science; The Aim of Religion" is the motto of the Thelemic fraternal order of The A.'.A.'..
Anyway, you should definitely expound upon your views, albeit tactfully. There are people here who are most definitely more sensitive than others. Everyone should be able to share their beliefs and how they arrived at them so that we can all better understand each other.
As an aside, I love your current avatar pic!
Quote from: Wynternight on October 03, 2014, 07:48:06 PM
As an aside, I love your current avatar pic!
Why thank you! It's totally Photoshopped, but so far it's the best "passable selfie" I've done. :P I don't know if you can see it, but my pendant is the Star of Babalon. :)
Quote from: sororcaeli on October 03, 2014, 07:30:09 PM
Is your lack of belief due to some past experience, or based on any resentment for organised religion, or did you simply just conclude by your reasoning that any idea of God is preposterous? This isn't a hostile reply, I'm just curious. A lot of atheists I've talked to seem to arrive at their conclusions due to perceiving the God of Abraham as absurd and malevolent, and then from that point just lumping in all things metaphysical as just more of the same.
I have no problems with or judgments of atheists. I would consider myself one simply for the fact that I do not believe in a deity. I would consider myself more of a Pantheist, seeing "God' as impersonal and permeating all things without bias or favoritism, kind of like The Force. My particular spiritual path is Thelema which is easily adaptable by any perspective.
"The Method of Science; The Aim of Religion" is the motto of the Thelemic fraternal order of The A.'.A.'..
Anyway, you should definitely expound upon your views, albeit tactfully. There are people here who are most definitely more sensitive than others. Everyone should be able to share their beliefs and how they arrived at them so that we can all better understand each other.
First of all, a disclaimer: I'm not a native English speaker so while my writing might come off as aggressive or something, it really isn't. Also, I find it easier to discuss things like this face to face.
Well, I could borrow your words and say that the idea of god is preposterous in my mind. I find religious writings a mere product of fiction and honestly, I sometimes do read the Bible but for me it's like any other book I could grab from the shelf. Just a mere pastime and it usually leaves me deeply confused mainly due to all the contradictions it has.
And as a disclaimer, I mainly refer to Christianity because that's the background from which I come from, more accurately Evangelical Lutheran one like a majority of Finns.
I think a huge influence in my life has been the access to science. I have always had science-related books ever since I was a child. I couldn't read them so I asked someone from my family to do it for me. I was very young when someone happened to read me about the Big Bang Theory and compared to what the Bible says, it seems much more plausible explanation.
I always had an interest in science and no one in my family was ever there to say that the evolution isn't true etc so I grew up to... well, basically to believe in science.
Of course, I must admit I am fascinated by religions from study point of view. Kind of like I'm fascinated by the fictional world of Tamriel from the Elder Scrolls series and everything it holds within. This is not an attempt to offend anyone, it's just the way I see things and tells how I see religions.
Also, from the literature point of view, I really like the way the Bible was written, Finnish or English. I just... have a thing for everything that is overly dramatic and epic. I don't know why, it's just always been like that. It might have something to do with me having dabbled in writing myself.
That being said, I suppose I should mention that I actually live (and have lived my whole life) in Finland's equivalent of the Bible Belt. But the presence of church is still much more muted down than it is in the US, I would say. Generally, people turn to religion and church here only when they need it, whether it is to baptize a child, marriage, funeral or to seek some way to oppose something they don't like and justify it.
This is so not a topic for text-based discussion just after waking up, lol...
I don't believe in imaginary friends...
Quote from: Tossu-sama on October 04, 2014, 03:56:33 AM
That being said, I suppose I should mention that I actually live (and have lived my whole life) in Finland's equivalent of the Bible Belt. But the presence of church is still much more muted down than it is in the US, I would say. Generally, people turn to religion and church here only when they need it, whether it is to baptize a child, marriage, funeral or to seek some way to oppose something they don't like and justify it.
It's so odd how Scandinavia seems to be covered in churches and yet there are far less Christians. Or maybe that's just Norway? So, how do the Finnish compare the God of Abraham with Ukko?
Quote from: Natalie on October 04, 2014, 04:34:37 AM
I don't believe in imaginary friends...
I do. The voices in my head tell me they are my friends. ???
Quote from: Jess42 on September 27, 2014, 11:19:44 PM
I used to believe in something. But I really don't know anymore. ??? The more I think about it, the more paranormal investigations I do and what or who seems to be stuck and in misery, I just really don't know anymore. Time loops, distorted time from EMF fields, information holding minerals? I can't figure it out and I keep trying with no conclusive results. All I know is some people's prayers seem to be answered and mine never are. So yeah, God seems to exist for some and not for others. Not so much for me it seems. :(
I think one of the biggest issues people have is trying to find evidence based on someone else's reported experiences or what some religion has claimed as the true nature of God. God, to me, isn't something to go looking for, or something that you can just suddenly accept as real. Your life experiences must lead you to that moment of realisation. If you never get there, then no big deal, because all that matters is how you move through this life, how you treat others, and your journey to self-love. Spirituality doesn't have to be so specific for everyone. Simply being genuine, compassionate, and appreciative of the wonders of nature is spiritual enough.
Quote from: sororcaeli on October 04, 2014, 11:57:30 PM
I think one of the biggest issues people have is trying to find evidence based on someone else's reported experiences or what some religion has claimed as the true nature of God. God, to me, isn't something to go looking for, or something that you can just suddenly accept as real. Your life experiences must lead you to that moment of realisation. If you never get there, then no big deal, because all that matters is how you move through this life, how you treat others, and your journey to self-love. Spirituality doesn't have to be so specific for everyone. Simply being genuine, compassionate, and appreciative of the wonders of nature is spiritual enough.
I know. You can go back and read some of my posts and I have always defended "something" But I am losing that now. Sort of like, "Hello, is there anybody out there?" Think Pink Floyd. I am just to the point that I don't think there is anyone out there anymore.
BTW, nice pic for your avatar. I just can't defend a myth anymore. I'm done, I think anyway.
Quote from: Jess42 on October 05, 2014, 12:58:18 AM
I know. You can go back and read some of my posts and I have always defended "something" But I am losing that now. Sort of like, "Hello, is there anybody out there?" Think Pink Floyd. I am just to the point that I don't think there is anyone out there anymore.
BTW, nice pic for your avatar. I just can't defend a myth anymore. I'm done, I think anyway.
Thank you. :) And you don't have to defend any myths. I certainly don't. I do try to explain them, though, from occult perspectives. If someone wants to participate in a religion, in my opinion, they should be prepared and willing to study its origins and contemplate its mysteries. To call oneself Christian and not be able to explain every last psalm, parable and metaphor in their scriptures is like calling oneself an artist simply for appreciating the works of Dali and Picasso. It's lazy, mindless, and utterly pointless.
Quote from: sororcaeli on October 05, 2014, 01:34:55 AM
Thank you. :) And you don't have to defend any myths. I certainly don't. I do try to explain them, though, from occult perspectives. If someone wants to participate in a religion, in my opinion, they should be prepared and willing to study its origins and contemplate its mysteries. To call oneself Christian and not be able to explain every last psalm, parable and metaphor in their scriptures is like calling oneself an artist simply for appreciating the works of Dali and Picasso. It's lazy, mindless, and utterly pointless.
You are completely right. I use to ask my catholic ex wife why she didn't eat meat on Fridays during lent and she never could tell me. This went on for 4 years. You would figure she would at least ask someone that knew why. Not that I care. I respect it but at least know why and she didn't. Just she knew that during lent you didn't eat meat on Fridays. I'm not even catholic and I fasted totally on Fridays to be a stubborn bitch. She wasn't near the bitch as me. She had to eat. ??? Sorry to any Catholics out there, I mean no offense whatsoever.
I should also add that there's a big difference between being an orthodox Christian and being a follower of Christ's teachings. If someone is the latter then there's nothing wrong with that. You're simply trying to live a moral and humanitarian life. There's nothing pointless about that. I wouldn't say that makes anyone officially a Christian, though. I appreciate many of the views of Ayn Rand as well as Carl Jung, but that doesn't make me a Randian Objectivist or a Jungian acolyte. Labeling oneself under any religion or philosophy should come with great responsibility and dedication to all of its doctrines and duties. If you can't do that then you're really nothing more than a bystander with just enough appreciation to stay a while.
Quote from: sororcaeli on October 05, 2014, 01:56:05 AM
I should also add that there's a big difference between being an orthodox Christian and being a follower of Christ's teachings. If someone is the latter then there's nothing wrong with that. You're simply trying to live a moral and humanitarian life. There's nothing pointless about that. I wouldn't say that makes anyone officially a Christian, though. I appreciate many of the views of Ayn Rand as well as Carl Jung, but that doesn't make me a Randian Objectivist or a Jungian acolyte. Labeling oneself under any religion or philosophy should come with great responsibility and dedication to all of its doctrines and duties. If you can't do that then you're really nothing more than a bystander with just enough appreciation to stay a while.
Humanitarian? Yeah. Moral life, not so sure anymore. I just don't know. I see a lot of evidence for nature but not too much for even a non intervening devine entity anymore. I pray for two things every night, this or that, and neither one is granted. But others pray and it seems like those are answered. Even when the person is a butthole. And I wake early in the morning and watch TV and these poor children dying from cancer at St Jude's Hospital. But a 66 year old man has his prayers answered. I don't know. I guess I'm just bitter. I see things like that and at 46 I would trade my life with theirs for them to have a life past 13 or 14. I have lost my Faith. Evil is all there is or seems to be and an all powerful God can't make a 12 year old little girl live a full life. Especially when I pray to die and pray for God to take me and let one of those little children live?
So do I believe in god. Not really anymore. I pray, I would sacrifice my life for one of those little children 'cause I'm just tired and my prayers fall on deaf ears but someone that is so scared to die, prays to live and that is granted? Life seems to be my curse. Even if it is a little fun sometimes. I don't want to be 80 years old.
I think sometimes to Jessica that we mistake what appears as prayers being answered or not answered with just the natural struggles of life and death.?
I don't believe prayers are answered as often as some wish, or not in ways our minds can understand.?
I'm becoming much more cynical about God also, but mostly cuz I'm so angry at preachers and believers alike, who use the bible as a way to punish and condemn others they don't understand, nor will bother to even try to understand,
Oh I could go on.! But I left my soap box home..
Quote from: Jess42 on October 05, 2014, 02:17:26 AM
And I wake early in the morning and watch TV and these poor children dying from cancer at St Jude's Hospital. But a 66 year old man has his prayers answered. I don't know. I guess I'm just bitter. I see things like that and at 46 I would trade my life with theirs for them to have a life past 13 or 14. I have lost my Faith. Evil is all there is or seems to be and an all powerful God can't make a 12 year old little girl live a full life. Especially when I pray to die and pray for God to take me and let one of those little children live?
Well, I think when you stop thinking of God as some bloke in the sky who answers (or doesn't answer) prayers, and more of an impersonal, higher state of consciousness, you'll find more appreciation for what it means and how it really has no interference in free will. Prayer, to me, is just the force of intent, and has no guarantees upon anything terminal whether it's death, lack of success, or poverty. It isn't meant to guarantee results, just as in Thelema when Crowley explains that in your magickal working one should do so "without lust of result". A god that has been set up as a saviour is a god that is going to disappoint you quite a lot. Personally, I'm more of a Pantheist. I don't rely on any higher entities, or venerate them, or deify them, or expect them to grant my wishes. Nature has its rules and its order, and "God" simply provides the formula and the foundation. When you can tune into that, as you go about your life, you can start to see that formula manifest itself, and then you can begin to apply it. Then a new clarity sets in and you can navigate with far more ease. The only down side is that the obstacles become more challenging, because this newfound clarity is a brand new set of tools so that you can take on these obstacles when you might not have been able to previously. :)
Quote from: Mark3 on October 05, 2014, 02:40:33 AM
I think sometimes to Jessica that we mistake what appears as prayers being answered or not answered with just the natural struggles of life and death.?
I don't believe prayers are answered as often as some wish, or not in ways our minds can understand.?
I'm becoming much more cynical about God also, but mostly cuz I'm so angry at preachers and believers alike, who use the bible as a way to punish and condemn others they don't understand, nor will bother to even try to understand,
Oh I could go on.! But I left my soap box home..
You wanna' borrow my soapbox? Yeah the whole universe may be misunderstood.
Quote from: sororcaeli on October 05, 2014, 02:43:42 AM
Well, I think when you stop thinking of God as some bloke in the sky who answers (or doesn't answer) prayers, and more of an impersonal, higher state of consciousness, you'll find more appreciation for what it means and how it really has no interference in free will. Prayer, to me, is just the force of intent, and has no guarantees upon anything terminal whether it's death, lack of success, or poverty. It isn't meant to guarantee results, just as in Thelema when Crowley explains that in your magickal working one should do so "without lust of result". A god that has been set up as a saviour is a god that is going to disappoint you quite a lot. Personally, I'm more of a Pantheist. I don't rely on any higher entities, or venerate them, or deify them, or expect them to grant my wishes. Nature has its rules and its order, and "God" simply provides the formula and the foundation. When you can tune into that, as you go about your life, you can start to see that formula manifest itself, and then you can begin to apply it. Then a new clarity sets in and you can navigate with far more ease. The only down side is that the obstacles become more challenging, because this newfound clarity is a brand new set of tools so that you can take on these obstacles when you might not have been able to previously. :)
But I have never thought of God as some old dude in the sky. One thing I pray for myself. the other things I pray for those children at St Jude's and another for al the people like us that is contemplating the unthinkable. So that may work but some it didn't though. But I think I could pray until my face turns blue and they would never be heard. Maybe I really don't need to pray anymore. It seems to hurt more than it helps. :-\ :'(
Quote from: sororcaeli on October 04, 2014, 10:26:51 PM
It's so odd how Scandinavia seems to be covered in churches and yet there are far less Christians. Or maybe that's just Norway? So, how do the Finnish compare the God of Abraham with Ukko?
It could also have to do with our peculiar religious... habits, I suppose? Like I mentioned earlier, really the only occassions when people need church are the specific events in life and some also use the Bible to justify certain things, like for example why homosexuality etc is wrong. Other than that, especially Finns keep to themselves minding their own business. It's in our culture that we don't poke our noses in other people's business.
Thus there might be a considerable amount of Christians but we just don't make a big fuss about it. It's not a big part of people's lives, it's just in the background and taken out whenever it's needed, which is very rarely.
I must say I'm impressed that you know the name of the head deity of the ancient Finnish mythology! But sadly, there isn't much left of the said mythology in the modern day. Finnish as a language wasn't a written language when Christianity was brought into Finland so nothing about the traditions and beliefs were written down by their original practitioners. I'm quite sure that's the reason why Christianity effectively wiped out our original beliefs and replaced them with their own teachings while also combining them with the ones we already had. For example, I noticed that Hell in the Bible is referred to as Tuonela in the Finnish translation, and Tuonela is the underworld of the Finnish mythology where everyone went after death, good or bad. The only punishment for bad people were beds made of stone!
But as for Ukko, as far as I know he was more like a force of nature given personality. He was, after all, the god of thunder and to this day, thunder is called
ukkonen in Finnish. The weather condition with possible thunder is known as
ukonilma, more or less "air of Ukko".
We also have several other words and sayings in modern Finnish that have their roots in the old beliefs.
But really, one has to do some serious studying to find out things about the ancient Finnish mythology. The most easiest access in a way is the Finnish national epic Kalevala which has lots of characters from the mythology. Also, quite interestingly its events end when Christianity arrives, hmm...
I did read however that the early Christian priests in Finland were frustrated because people here weren't giving up their old beliefs very easily. We held tight to our belief that every house has a house elf (
tonttu in Finnish) and it was given food and drink to prevent it from leaving which would've meant bad luck for the house. Even some saunas had them. So I wouldn't be surprised if we had been holding onto the old gods as well.
I can't really say much about this matter, though. Internet is really poor in this subject and really the best source so far I've found has been Wikipedia. I repeat myself like a broken record but I put quite a lot of weight on the status of Finnish language. It became a written language in the 1500s when one man decided to make it so but even after that, it was the language of the poor people and all the educated and rich people used Swedish.
But honestly, if I ever were turn religious in anyway, I think I would turn to the old Finnish pagan gods.
Quote from: Wynternight on September 29, 2014, 08:48:34 AM
He failed in this one because I can't handle this. Thanks, bearded dude in the sky, thanks for nothing and kiss my hindquarters. Proselytize elsewhere.
He didn't fail you failed yourself because you can't handle it and God never gives you trials and tribulations that you can't bare or handle don't blame this on God, why is it so hard to believe that God had a plan maybe you were weak and this was his plan to make you stronger.
Quote from: Jess42 on October 05, 2014, 12:58:18 AM
I know. You can go back and read some of my posts and I have always defended "something" But I am losing that now. Sort of like, "Hello, is there anybody out there?" Think Pink Floyd. I am just to the point that I don't think there is anyone out there anymore.
BTW, nice pic for your avatar. I just can't defend a myth anymore. I'm done, I think anyway.
Nah maybe many people are afraid to speak out about what God has done for them because there are alot of atheist on this forum. But God doesn't need anyone to defend him he will show himself in time.
Quote from: Brandon on October 05, 2014, 11:36:54 AM
He didn't fail you failed yourself because you can't handle it and God never gives you trials and tribulations that you can't bare or handle don't blame this on God, why is it so hard to believe that God had a plan maybe you were weak and this was his plan to make you stronger.
Do me a favour and ignore me. I come here to be free of preachers and proselytizers. I failed myself?
Quote from: Wynternight on October 05, 2014, 11:49:24 AM
Do me a favour and ignore me. I come here to be free of preachers and proselytizers. I failed myself? Go screw yourself.
Yea you did, no ones trying to preach to you I am not one of thoes guys who trys to judge everyone, but I do try to get people to look at both sides of the picture, just because you have had bad experiences doesn't mean become a non believer, when thats probaly not evn how God views you, you have completely missed the point but its ok.
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Quote from: Brandon on October 05, 2014, 11:56:39 AM
Yea you did, no ones trying to preach to you I am not one of thoes guys who trys to judge everyone, but I do try to get people to look at both sides of the picture, just because you have had bad experiences doesn't mean become a non believer, when thats probaly not evn how God views you, you have completely missed the point but its ok.
You've been judgmental every time you post. I'm done with you.
Quote from: Brandon on October 05, 2014, 11:36:54 AM
Quote from: Wynternight on September 29, 2014, 08:48:34 AM
He failed in this one because I can't handle this. Thanks, bearded dude in the sky, thanks for nothing and kiss my hindquarters. Proselytize elsewhere.
He didn't fail you failed yourself because you can't handle it and God never gives you trials and tribulations that you can't bare or handle don't blame this on God, why is it so hard to believe that God had a plan maybe you were weak and this was his plan to make you stronger.
You are not to pass judgments on others beliefs any more than they are welcome to pass judgement on yours. You are free to talk about how
your spirituality affects
your life, but you cannot proselytize or attempt to convert others.
You know when your puppy has nightmares? That's who I pray to. Seriously though, for the sake of brevity, I'm atheist but I believe in the possibility of some form of afterlife(as the word atheist implies, a godless afterlife). I'm always somehow insulting in conversations like these so I can't usually have them with people who aren't close. However, I've never been close enough with anyone religious to actually have the conversation. I laugh a LOT at religions expense, which doesn't usually sit right with them. Great job anyone who got the reference.
Quote from: TabbytheDruid on October 13, 2014, 03:16:30 AM
I'm always somehow insulting in conversations like these so I can't usually have them with people who aren't close.
I tend to be like this, too which is kinda lame considering I'd like to have sensible conversations on this matter but... meh.
Quote from: TabbytheDruid on October 13, 2014, 03:16:30 AM
I laugh a LOT at religions expense, which doesn't usually sit right with them.
I do this, too.
Also, I see what you did there, hehehehehe. :D
I know there is a positive, healing, pure, and wonderful energy out there but I do not believe there is an intellectual and/or intelligent being, deity, or 'God' in control. There is FAR too much anger, rage, violence, murder, hatred, etc in the world and its only getting worse. How could ANY 'God' allow or desire this? It's ridiculous to think there's a grand plan here that benefits humanity.
Quote from: Brandon on October 05, 2014, 11:56:39 AM
Yea you did, no ones trying to preach to you I am not one of thoes guys who trys to judge everyone, but I do try to get people to look at both sides of the picture, just because you have had bad experiences doesn't mean become a non believer, when thats probaly not evn how God views you, you have completely missed the point but its ok.
But that is exaclty what it means Brandon. Our life experiences dictate what we believe. There is no difference between non belivers and believers. Bith want to have and deserve a comfortable happy life. Lived to their fullest potential. If there is a heaven and a hell, who has control over who goes where? I have seen some non believers that would go to a heaven and I have seen some blelievers that would go to hell. I have seen some non believers that have live more "righteous" lives than some believers.
We can't judge. I won't even try to. I have no authority or Devine power to Judge anyone who is right or wrong. Me personally, I am in no way deserving of a Heaven. If I burn in hell then fine. But I will stand with my brothers and sisters. If I burn, according to some, then so be it. I did and am doing what I think is right. Right? That is the first part of Righteousness?
Sorry Susan. I hope I didn't break any TOS.
I always try to engage in discussions about religion, god, and the nature of reality as peacefully and non-biased as possible, because I didn't used to. I was very preachy in my Christian years, and when I found my home in paganism and occultism I was very hostile towards Christianity. Not the people, just the religion, but attacking a religion is often taken personally, anyway.
Today, I see the value in all sorts of belief systems, and I see where they all can connect on common ground. It's easy to be angry with a religion where people have done terrible things in its name, or when you really don't understand the metaphors being used in scriptures; and the big one is associating tragedy with the God of Abraham even when you don't believe he exists. People base their opinions far too much on mythos rather than taking responsibility for their own actions.
So, whether one believes in God or not isn't nearly as important as how we choose to treat each other, and how we choose to live our lives.
Spirituality is a personal matter, and should also be a very private matter. Those beliefs will be in vain if people go into the world with judgment and self-righteousness. Smiting wasn't the lesson of Jesus, or Buddha, or Mohammed no matter what anyone proclaims to justify their behavior. It's also not the lesson in any esoteric path. We are to shine a light so that others may see and come to find their own light.
Spirituality, under any name, is your own revelation in your own time. It is not a military protocol for occupation and conversion. You just cannot make someone enlightened. They are either ready for it and accept it, or they are not. From my own experience, God is not a needy child who has tantrums when nobody gives him/it attention. God just is. We either discover it or we don't. Either way, no one is in danger of some eternal punishment. Heaven and Hell are things we allow within ourselves. Hell just happens to be less likely when you live a spiritual life, because you have that guidance with you like an astronaut has mission control. Without it, that astronaut is lost in the cold, dark space, navigating on a whim, and depending on hope.
Hope is not the way of the enlightened. Hope is for the lost, the helpless, and for those who have given their power away. Enlightenment and spirituality is about knowing, because what is there to hope for when you know that everything is as it should be? When you think "like God" your perspective changes dramatically, and you understand that good and evil have a symbiotic relationship. One can transmute to its opposite in either direction. For an excellent expression of this concept watch The Dark Crystal and pay attention to its meaning, especially at the end.
"When religion is experienced as a wall that blocks us from others by thinking our way is superior than someone else's, we are restricted from the all-encompassing 'true religion' that serves as the primordial foundation of all religions (universal law) and all benefits that we would enjoy if we were living in harmony with said law. A religion is a failed religion that doesn't teach the unity and interconnectedness of everything and has supremely failed when they have withheld certain things that prevent people from discovering who they are and living their life to the fullest all in the name of 'power' and 'control'."
— Bret Trismegistus
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i don't want to believe in god but i have been taught to believe in god since my childhood, so it is kinda difficult to remove that "belief" from within. it is imprinted in my mind, lol
Quote from: evadenzin on November 10, 2014, 11:46:14 AM
i don't want to believe in god but i have been taught to believe in god since my childhood, so it is kinda difficult to remove that "belief" from within. it is imprinted in my mind, lol
We're raised to believe in only one limited idea of God, and punished for questioning it. That's what ruins it for people. It makes us unreceptive to spirituality, and I'd like to think that's by design. Organised religion is too often restrictive and oppressive, but spirituality is liberating. You can't have a world of unthinking, unquestioning, subservient automatons when we're all awake and can see through the dark.
Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 09, 2014, 07:02:38 PM
I know there is a positive, healing, pure, and wonderful energy out there but I do not believe there is an intellectual and/or intelligent being, deity, or 'God' in control. There is FAR too much anger, rage, violence, murder, hatred, etc in the world and its only getting worse. How could ANY 'God' allow or desire this? It's ridiculous to think there's a grand plan here that benefits humanity.
Not trying to go against susans policies but, We have turned our backs on God so why should he do anything for us I mean look how we act, this world isn't getting any better so no don't expect God to move for you or anyone we can't even follow simple commamdments if I was God I wouldn't do anything for humanity either unless you deserved it tbh.
Quote from: Jess42 on November 10, 2014, 12:03:47 AM
But that is exaclty what it means Brandon. Our life experiences dictate what we believe. There is no difference between non belivers and believers. Bith want to have and deserve a comfortable happy life. Lived to their fullest potential. If there is a heaven and a hell, who has control over who goes where? I have seen some non believers that would go to a heaven and I have seen some blelievers that would go to hell. I have seen some non believers that have live more "righteous" lives than some believers.
We can't judge. I won't even try to. I have no authority or Devine power to Judge anyone who is right or wrong. Me personally, I am in no way deserving of a Heaven. If I burn in hell then fine. But I will stand with my brothers and sisters. If I burn, according to some, then so be it. I did and am doing what I think is right. Right? That is the first part of Righteousness?
Sorry Susan. I hope I didn't break any TOS.
I completely understand that but who puts you through thoes experiences and most of the time its only to make you stronger if anything by me giving you trials and tribulations it shows that I care about you more instead of letting you be weak in this world, its only getting worse and worse tbh and it will never get better I'd rather be strong thamd weak and I have grown strong from my situation and this whole process.
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2014, 02:47:19 PM
Not trying to go against susans policies but, We have turned our backs on God so why should he do anything for us I mean look how we act, this world isn't getting any better so no don't expect God to move for you or anyone we can't ven follow simple commamdments if I was God I wouldn't do anything for humanity either unless you deserved it tbh.
When you wait around for a deity to come in and save the day then you completely miss the point. God isn't separate from us. We are all each divine expressions; shards of the whole. We create and destroy our own world. We are responsible for the outcome. There is no saviour besides ourselves.
Imagine looking into a mirror and you take your brush to its surface as if to touch your hair. You keep doing that over and over and wonder why your hair isn't changing. That's basically the way we go about our lives. We keep combing the mirror; projecting everything away from us; giving up responsibility to someone else and expecting to see results. You don't change the reflection, you change what's being reflected. Faith without action is useless.
Quote from: Illuminess on November 10, 2014, 03:42:28 PM
When you wait around for a deity to come in and save the day then you completely miss the point. God isn't separate from us. We are all each divine expressions; shards of the whole. We create and destroy our own world. We are responsible for the outcome. There is no saviour besides ourselves.
Imagine looking into a mirror and you take your brush to its surface as if to touch your hair. You keep doing that over and over and wonder why your hair isn't changing. That's basically the way we go about our lives. We keep combing the mirror; projecting everything away from us; giving up responsibility to someone else and expecting to see results. You don't change the reflection, you change what's being reflected. Faith without action is useless.
I am sorry but I disagree with almost everything you said, God indeed created this world while it is true we have definately destroyed it. There is a savior and that is my lord and savior Jesus Christ. Sorry I love God and you will never change my mind if it wasn't for his grace and mercy I wouldn't be here I am just stating the facts. But you don't have to agree with me. And if we are really our own saviors than why is everybody dying all the time, why has the love of man waxed cold we can't even love eatchother instead we judge eacthother oh I know why its because God is the only one who can step in and help we can't do everything ourselves, we need some type of guidance.
:police:
Just a reminder to everyone to keep things calm and civil. That is all I ask! :)
The beauty of individuality is the choice to believe however you choose. It's when someone tries to insist you believe a certain way — condemning all others — that suspicion arises, and your individuality becomes nil. Nobody has to be in complete agreement, because each experience is our own. One is not better than the other. Different perspectives make for some amazing diversity. The challenge is learning to coexist within it, without judgment.
Religion has been the cause of MORE violence, murder, mayhem, and mass confusion and manipulation than anything else known to mankind. Religion is slowly falling to the wayside because it's simply NOT working.
Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 10, 2014, 08:14:32 PM
Religion has been the cause of MORE violence, murder, mayhem, and mass confusion and manipulation than anything else known to mankind. Religion is slowly falling to the wayside because it's simply NOT working.
The basis of those religions is mystic in origin, but men have stripped away that essence and turned them all into tools of war: physical, mental and spiritual. So, what we need is to reconnect what was removed, not throw it all in the bin. What is written in holy books has one perfect meaning, but we all end up finding our own that best fit our worldview or agenda.
All religions have value if you know how to look. It's just not easy for people to shake their biases and become receptive to the mystical. Just research Gnostic Christianity and you'll see how very different it is to what Christianity has become. If Jesus existed he was most definitely a mystic, not a vicar or an evangelist. He said the Kingdom of Heaven was within. It doesn't look like many are heeding that advice. Everyone is too busy puffing up their chests and pointing fingers. That's not spiritual behaviour.
People do NOT need organized, or disorganized, religion to have a relationship with 'God'. Religion, in MANY cases, brainwashes people. Spirituality is a direct connection to the power that IS and does very well without religion. Yes, men screw up religion and at this point it's screwed up almost beyond the point of no return. Religion has been around a LONG time yet the world is NOT in ANY better shape. Religion is just as much a disease to mankind as politics is.
Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 10, 2014, 08:41:33 PM
People do NOT need organized, or disorganized, religion to have a relationship with 'God'. Religion, in MANY cases, brainwashes people. Spirituality is a direct connection to the power that IS and does very well without religion. Yes, men screw up religion and at this point it's screwed up almost beyond the point of no return. Religion has been around a LONG time yet the world is NOT in ANY better shape. Religion is just as much a disease to mankind as politics is.
It just depends on what you consider to be a religion. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are the major ones that are always trying to one-up each other, preaching fear and defending immoral behaviour in the name of God.
My personal path is Thelema, and whether or not it's a religion is debatable. Some people take it in that direction, and some don't. The Thelemic order of The A.'.A.'. has the motto,
"The Method of Science, The Aim of Religion". Their use of the word has nothing to do with dogmatic barbarism. Religion is simply the structure that surrounds a belief, and the foundation that keeps it unwavering.
The problem that has made that word into a vulgarity is the self-righteousness in claiming authority or superiority over others. Thelema forbids anyone to interfere with another's personal path. It's a "religion" that embraces individual liberty, and the act of restriction (to oneself or to others) is the greatest sin. The pillars that uphold this philosophy are Will and Love. Follow your unique path, and do so under the law of Love. It's a shame this ideology isn't practiced in most other religions.
Quote from: angelina.vail.7 on November 10, 2014, 08:14:32 PM
Religion has been the cause of MORE violence, murder, mayhem, and mass confusion and manipulation than anything else known to mankind. Religion is slowly falling to the wayside because it's simply NOT working.
No there is just no love in this world anymore. Just look around ya, I agree that they could teach better and not condemn everyone though.
Quote from: Illuminess on November 10, 2014, 08:04:34 PM
The beauty of individuality is the choice to believe however you choose. It's when someone tries to insist you believe a certain way — condemning all others — that suspicion arises, and your individuality becomes nil. Nobody has to be in complete agreement, because each experience is our own. One is not better than the other. Different perspectives make for some amazing diversity. The challenge is learning to coexist within it, without judgment.
I understand that 100% and agree its just people can be really rude about there beliefs and I try not to..
Quote from: Brandon on November 10, 2014, 09:25:28 PM
I understand that 100% and agree its just people can be really rude about there beliefs and I try not to..
That's good. :) I know my words can often come across as blunt, but I never intend to offend. I like to look at religion/spirituality like Mexican food: it's all the same core ingredients, just arranged and prepared differently. However you ingest it, it's all going to the same inner place and filling you with goodness. :P
Brandon, there's plenty of love in the world but we aren't talking about love, we are talking about religion and they don't necessarily go hand in hand. I run into many good, decent, and loving people but religion has a way of twisting and distorting people's views, beliefs, perceptions, and feelings. I'm not anti religion but can clearly see it just doesn't seem to be making a positive contribution to the planets population.
No I don't believe in god and no disrespect to people who do. I believe in karma I treat people how I want to be treated
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I am starting to think that if there really was a god, he (or she) would have the decency to at least give us the body (gender) that we were meant to have!