I'm passing lately and it felt totally awkward at the urinal with men on either side. My hair is girlish long and I felt out of place. I'm presenting andro (well trying to).
When will I know?
... and what was your 1st time in a busy public women's restroom like for you?
I go to the one without a line...works for me. :)
I don't make going pee a statement and it depends where I am and how im presenting myself. I try to use gender neutral restrooms if possible. I run in and run out asap as Ive had bad experiences in both. Men turning around quickly as they think they are in the wrong room and women scorning me for being in the wrong room; a no win situation for sure and all I want to do is pee.
I was getting some really weird looks at work recently....I just quite but, I dunno maybe I am starting to male fail.
I think if I was wearing a dress (and neighboring stalls where also occupied) I probably would be made to know. ;D
or maybe not? People do tend to be PC though.
But I'm blurring the lines here. I'm actually scared to go in the women's restroom. :D
I had a hard time at first. I remember how nervous I was. It was a two stall bathroom at a Denny's restaurant. Both the stalls were full. When a woman with child came out of the stall, I looked down and to the right so they couldn't see my face. As soon as they passed me I rushed into to stall shutting the door quickly. From that day on I considered myself full-time. If your presenting as a woman you should use the woman's restroom. It got a lot easier once I got my gender marker changed. I was afraid up till then. I thought someone would out me and I would get arrested.
I think the general rule is, if strangers are gendering you female, use the women's room. If strangers are gendering you male, use the men's room.
And I don't mean completely... I just mean a reasonable majority of the time, where you can safely say to yourself that an average rational person looking at you is probably going to be able to see you as a member of your identity gender. (And even if you're not getting properly gendered, you still have a right to use the bathroom of the gender you're presenting as. Get a carry letter or something if you have to, and nobody has the legal right to tell you that you don't belong in there.)
Another good indicator would be that if you're getting stared at while using the bathroom, or if people are giving you weird looks, it's getting about time to move to the other one. (Everyone goes through an androgynous phase, though, so there's a chance you'll get stared at no matter which bathroom you go in, so take your choice.)
Back in February, I was starting to get gendered female by strangers at work rather often. (Once or twice a day at least, sometimes more, while pretty much the only people still gendering me male were those who knew me already. And there were a lot of people who were asking me what my name was before gendering me, which was another big affirmation that I'd reached the andro phase where people couldn't necessarily tell my gender just by appearances anymore.) And there were a few times where when I went into the men's room at work, people were staring at me. And there was even one time where one of the guys at the urinal lurched back a bit and hid himself when he saw me coming in.
One night, I finally reached a point where I said "you know what? When I pull my hair into a ponytail and wear dangly earrings, I don't see any way that someone could gender me male." And so I decided to try using the women's room.
Nobody stared at me. I was nervous as hell (as probably everyone is when using the women's room for the first time,) but people pretty much just ignored me. And I've been using it ever since, and it's been 4.5 months since then, and still nobody's given me even a sideways glance.
So seriously. If lots of strangers are gendering you female, and if people are asking your name before gendering you, that's probably a good indication that you can start thinking about using the women's room.
I personally waited until I was really confident that I was passable, but again, that's not a requirement, that's just because I'm an overthinker and a worrywart. But hey, it worked.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 12:49:48 AM
I think the general rule is, if strangers are gendering you female, use the women's room. If strangers are gendering you male, use the men's room.
And I don't mean completely... I just mean a reasonable majority of the time, where you can safely say to yourself that an average rational person looking at you is probably going to be able to see you as a member of your identity gender. (And even if you're not getting properly gendered, you still have a right to use the bathroom of the gender you're presenting as. Get a carry letter or something if you have to, and nobody has the legal right to tell you that you don't belong in there.)
Another good indicator would be that if you're getting stared at while using the bathroom, or if people are giving you weird looks, it's getting about time to move to the other one. (Everyone goes through an androgynous phase, though, so there's a chance you'll get stared at no matter which bathroom you go in, so take your choice.)
Back in February, I was starting to get gendered female by strangers at work rather often. (Once or twice a day at least, sometimes more, while most of the people who were gendering me male were people I'd known for months.) And there were a few times where when I went into the men's room at work, people were staring at me. And there was even one time where one of the guys at the urinal lurched back a bit and hid himself when he saw me coming in.
One night, I finally reached a point where I said "you know what? Looking at myself, I don't see any way that people could think I was a guy." And I decided to try using the women's room.
Nobody stared at me. I was nervous as hell (as probably everyone is when using the women's room for the first time,) but people pretty much just ignored me. And it's been 4.5 months since then, and still nobody's given me even a sideways glance.
So seriously. If lots of strangers are gendering you female, that's probably a good indication that you can use the women's room with no problems.
+1 to you Carrie. Thank you this was insightful. I am scared out of my wits to go into the women's restroom. Will have to find a way to get over it. Let me test a little longer on my passability (I could start wearing makeup, but then Evelyn will probably look like a clown) ;D
Thinking about all this, it also parallels dressing rooms as well.
I guess it's all part of the "ride" we call transition. :-\
I use the woman's room most of the time, but if I am presenting uber-male I use the men's but I run in and out and usually get stared at by everyone if it's packed. Awkward. In the woman's room, I haven't had a single issue, and even talk to people sometimes, though generally it's in, wash my hands, check makeup, out. The other day there was a long line and no one stared or gave me so much as a "you don't belong here look." I would go when you're presenting female or when you're being gendered female by people more than once, as in like for a couple weeks. For me, everyone just started calling me she, and then I got stopped by the police when presenting male and they thought I was being crude for saying I was male and called a female cop to search me. I was adjusting myself a little, enough so they thought I was hiding something down there, since female's have nothing to "adjust." Ugh gross. and TMI. After that, I pretty much used the woman's room unless totally male. This was 13 months ago. Not one problem in the woman's room since. Though once I was wearing all male clothes and walking to the woman's and a woman said wrong one. But this was like three months into transition and I was wearing all male, and obviously male clothes. So, this is what has worked for me.
Maybe for the women's restroom I should carry a thing of lipstick and go straight to the mirror first (in case I get stared at, see! I'm a gal!) - then make my way confidently to the stall. :D
Thanks Carrie, you saved me a lot of writing, lol!
As for myself I've been using the ladies room for many years now, but I have exclusively since I had my major male fail and went full time in August of 2008.Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 01:06:28 AM
Maybe for the women's restroom I should carry a thing of lipstick and go straight to the mirror first (in case I get stared at, see! I'm a gal!) - then make my way confidently to the stall. :D
If it makes you feel more comfortable it's a good idea. Just try not to show how nervous you are.
Allie :icon_flower:
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 24, 2014, 11:35:24 PM
I'm passing lately and it felt totally awkward at the urinal with men on either side. My hair is girlish long and I felt out of place. I'm presenting andro (well trying to).
When will I know?
... and what was your 1st time in a busy public women's restroom like for you?
If you're nervous about your first time, and this goes for anyone, go in a group with other female friends. The herd will keep you safe (until you feel confident to go on your own.)
One of my Youtube subscribers was also a big factor in giving me the confidence to use the women's room for the first time. About 3 weeks before I used it for the first time, she told me the following story, which was a huge confidence boost for me, so I thought I'd share it:
"I had apprehension when I first used the women's restrooms. I was at a movie, before starting HRT, one night with a friend, and I was wearing unisex clothes and make-up, and my hair was long. He said I had better not use the men's room, so I stood in line with the women. Other than one comment that I overheard, that I was taking a spot in a long line, it went ok. I was uncomfortable but everyone was OK about it.
Another occasion early (4 weeks) into transition, I was out to dinner with friends and went into the ladies room. Now I was only 4 weeks on HRT and had no shape at all, and I am tall, and I was wearing unisex slacks, and my back was to the door. A woman came in, shrieked and left immediately. I could hear her tell a friend "there's a man in there". So they both came in and by that time I had turned around and was facing them. The other woman said "what are you talking about? it's just a tall woman". Other than those two incidents, nothing else has happened in the past 40 years.
Don't feel like an invader, because you are not.
Good luck. Love and best wishes from alice. stay positive and pee where you want to ... ha ha"
First time for me I was in a dress and I needed to pee, no way I was using the men's! Had no hassle using the women's - there were a few women in there but no one looked twice at me.
My recommendation that if you are the female size if andro then there is less likelihood of grief, the male side of andro may cause problems depending on where you are. If you look freaked out then you look suspicious, that will draw attention so be calm, maybe make the first time you go when it isn't an emergency.
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 01:06:28 AM
Maybe for the women's restroom I should carry a thing of lipstick and go straight to the mirror first (in case I get stared at, see! I'm a gal!) - then make my way confidently to the stall. :D
If you ask me, that just sounds like a surefire way to draw unnecessary attention from people who otherwise would have just ignored you. The more you have a laid back attitude of "I'm just using the bathroom, who cares?" people likewise don't care, and just assume you know what you're doing and won't bother you. If you go in there strutting around and deliberately asserting your femaleness in a "See! See! Look at how much of a woman I am! Look at how much I deserve to be in here!" it's a surefire way to draw unnecessary attention.
Seriously, just go in and pee. Don't make a big deal about it. You don't have to prove anything.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 02:12:29 AM
If you ask me, that just sounds like a surefire way to draw unnecessary attention from people who otherwise would have just ignored you.
Seriously, just go in and pee. Don't make a big deal about it. You don't have to prove anything.
Agree 100%!
You know I actually did a image.google.com search for "women's restrooms mall" to see what the restrooms might look like.
Bad idea. :( Seems there's a lot-o pervs in this world.
But thankfully with passing i'm also 5'3" as well so that's gotta count a lot for something.
Well Evelyn, you know what my response would be >:-)
The first day I went to work I used the correct loo and every woman in the place knew I use to try and be a guy. The response was.......
Hi Cindy, how are you. Nice skirt etc etc etc.
Americans and toilets really kill me :laugh:
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 03:08:42 AM
You know I actually did a image.google.com search for "women's restrooms mall" to see what the restrooms might look like.
Lol... sometimes I seriously wonder about you, Ev. :P
Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.
It's not like the men's room has a horse trough and pictures of strippers on the walls, and the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.
Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 03:26:38 AM
Lol... sometimes I seriously wonder about you, Ev. :P
Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.
It's not like the men's room has a horse trough and pictures of strippers on the walls, and the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.
Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.
uh yah. I was just curious (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi62.tinypic.com%2F1zyes5k.jpg&hash=dc57a274ec2ce428f00414842dda3c29e1f75186) Don't know why it seems so alien to me. I'm sure it'll pass with practice. ("practice" (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi58.tinypic.com%2Frmsdv7.jpg&hash=e8004dc2aaba06ceb641b06b64369a5f4f710674))
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 03:34:32 AM
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 03:26:38 AM
Lol... sometimes I seriously wonder about you, Ev. :P
Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.
It's not like the men's room has a horse trough and pictures of strippers on the walls, and the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.
Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.
uh yah. I was just curious (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi62.tinypic.com%2F1zyes5k.jpg&hash=dc57a274ec2ce428f00414842dda3c29e1f75186) Don't know why it seems so alien to me. I'm sure it'll pass with practice. ("practice" (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi58.tinypic.com%2Frmsdv7.jpg&hash=e8004dc2aaba06ceb641b06b64369a5f4f710674))
You need practice to have a pee?
Quote from: ♡ Emily ♡ on July 25, 2014, 03:37:25 AM
Practice makes perfect!
I'll qualify - many girls need practice after surgery ::)
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 03:26:38 AM
...It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals...
Hopefully no urinals!! ;)
And you know, that is the one thing that makes all the difference in the world - when I used the lady's for the first time... no wall will a line of guys peeing up against it! It was seriously awesome.
It's not like I hadn't expected it, I think I got my first look at a girls loo block when I was about eight and for some reason my family were briefly visiting my primary school on a weekend, there was no one else around except the cleaner who must have opened the loo blocks, so I snuck a peek. Yep, just cubicles!
But I tell you the result of not having urinals means that the lady's loos smell much much better because there's no gallons of pee stagnating in a trough or whatever. :P
Quote from: Cindy on July 25, 2014, 03:35:48 AM
uh yah. I was just curious (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi62.tinypic.com%2F1zyes5k.jpg&hash=dc57a274ec2ce428f00414842dda3c29e1f75186) Don't know why it seems so alien to me. I'm sure it'll pass with practice. ("practice" (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi58.tinypic.com%2Frmsdv7.jpg&hash=e8004dc2aaba06ceb641b06b64369a5f4f710674))
You need practice to have a pee?
Cindy truthfully, that's a good point - I do have to practice feminine-like potty training too. ;D That whole sit down thing.
You know what, with this much fear I have about the female restroom, I'll probably wait until the last minute, and then finally running in and shucking my drawers behind me into the stall so maybe I won't care much after-all. ;D
You can practice that at home! Even if I could stand to wee I don't think I would :o
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 03:41:36 AM
...I'll probably wait until the last minute...
Don't do that - the other feature of the women's rest rooms is often the queue to get in!
Quote from: Cindy on July 25, 2014, 03:45:01 AM
You can practice that at home! Even if I could stand to wee I don't think I would :o
Yeah. Hehe.
Was just thinking, god forbid I cough while in loo company. I have a passing voice. But not a passing cough. That might "raise a few eyebrows" lolz.
Trials and tribulations ahead for sure! ;D
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 25, 2014, 03:49:55 AM
Don't do that - the other feature of the women's rest rooms is often the queue to get in!
I'll just pay each person a $1 and rush right in. ;D
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 03:51:57 AM
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 25, 2014, 03:49:55 AM
Don't do that - the other feature of the women's rest rooms is often the queue to get in!
I'll just pay each person a $1 and rush right in. ;D
I can tell you ain't been in the queue!!!
Quote from: Cindy on July 25, 2014, 03:55:41 AM
I can tell you ain't been in the queue!!!
Welp. With my best sounding baritone voice, "howdy" and a cowboy nod, I'll have to avant-garde my way into the men's room instead. ;D
Male privilege yo! ;D
^^ That's hilarious. I can totally visualize that awkwardness because I felt it today. Give a little extra swagger. ;)
With that in mind, say all the men's stalls and urinals are occupied. Would you just continue standing there? (staring at the men) ;D
Pre-op -- would you use a urinal?
Step right up! ;D
^^ BAHAHHAHAAHA on both counts!
I'm pee-shy as well. ;D
I'd just grab the handle and keep flushing, maybe it'll sound "busy".
:D
Sitting down to pee is: sit down to pee, pee, wipe
Nothing hard about it, trust me Ive done it forever :P
I started using the womens whenever I was presenting as a woman - right from the start.. Never had any problems.
Once, in an emergency, while I was out clubbing at Adelaide's only LGBT club, I ducked in to the mens and was making my way to the hated, but empty urinal, when a rather polite young guy suggested that I was in the wrong place.. The look on his face as I used the urinal was priceless.
Quote from: Cindy on July 25, 2014, 03:12:38 AM
Americans and toilets really kill me :laugh:
Yeah, me too.. :laugh:
The breaking point for me was after going to the cinema with some friends after about seven months of HRT. Up until then I had still been using the male restroom because I didn't want to make a scene or cause trouble to others. But when I tried to go to the male bathroom after the movie, two of my female friends grabbed me, told me I didn't belong there, and actually dragged me, kicking and screaming, into the female one. :'D I figured if it was getting to the point where other girls were uncomfortable with the thought of me using the male bathroom, nevermind guys, then it was probably time to stop. And I never used a male bathroom again. :'D
I started feeling uncomfortable in the men's room well before I had bewbs...once I started wearing makeup and "showing" more, both I and the men were clearly uncomfortable (this was at work, with familiar faces). I waited until I could change my gender marker on my d/l before I started using the women's room.
I read on here somewhere, "just walk in like you OWN the place", and it's worked for me every time. Once as I was leaving, an older woman remarked "this is the ladies room", and I replied, "Yes. Yes, it is."
Quote from: Nala on July 25, 2014, 09:34:38 AM... two of my female friends grabbed me, told me I didn't belong there, and actually dragged me, kicking and screaming, into the female one. :'D I figured if it was getting to the point where other girls were uncomfortable with the thought of me using the male bathroom, nevermind guys, then it was probably time to stop...
This might be a hint, yes. ;D
I really don't have anything to add except to say that, the first few times in the "Womens" it is scary, then fun, then it just becomes a place to pee. Look like a girl and nobody much cares. Tell you what though, I relaxed a lot once my Drivers License said Julie Blair (F) ;)
j
the biggest thing I'm afraid of is going in to pee and accidentally peeing while standing up ;D
I still stand up when I pee because I'm like 90% guy mode when I go out to do errands etc., and I find it more of a convenience to pee while standing at home... it's there, might as well use it :P
I've never been misgendered while I'm in girl mode, but I'm afraid of slipping up in one of the myriad ways one can slip up.
Evelyn, Since you seem so (understandably) nervous about it, I would suggest a different approach for your first time. Rather than using the women's while presenting as andro, make a specific effort to go out presenting as female. That, along with your 5'3 size and long hair, no one will question that you belong in the women's room. Also, pick a women's restroom that isn't likely to be crowded, like a mall.
Do this a few times and you will see (1) that it is more in your head than anything...and that (2), like Carrie said, the women's room isn't pink and frilly with copies of Marie Claire lying around. After those first few times I'll bet that you will be far less nervous about using the women's when you find yourself out somewhere, presenting as andro, and really NEED to get to a restroom.
Kim :)
For me it was the second time I got a double-take and "this is the men's room!" I figured if unobservant people who *expected* to see only men in there were still startled...
(I agree that small size + long hair = nobody will take a second glance.)
Just putting this here :D
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi57.tinypic.com%2Ffxrss3.jpg&hash=94cb656e2e448968a6941d4311b3b0a8e2c91cf8)
Maybe they should remove the titles and just leave it up to "preference"?
I started using ladies room when I was getting Male-Fail. This was conclusively proven on an occasion where women followed me into the men's room. They definitely did double takes. The bottom line is it was just time. At work they passed a specific rule that I had to have SRS before I could use the ladies room, then promptly relabeled all the bathrooms unisex. I have no idea what the company lawyers were telling them. Lol.
I say go for it, worst they will do is tell you your in the wrong bathroom or just ignore you like they do me lol I use the womens room at work still, which is just getting awkward, this one lady was in there with her daughter and her daughter starts laughing saying why is he in the girls room washing his hands lol I bolted out of there before I can hear the mom respond (good luck to her explaining that).
Let's see... I was wearing a cute dress and full makeup and I had to go really badly.
No way in hell I was going to the men's room, out myself to a bunch of random guys in a strange town and risk being a statistic.
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 02:53:39 PM
Just putting this here :D
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi57.tinypic.com%2Ffxrss3.jpg&hash=94cb656e2e448968a6941d4311b3b0a8e2c91cf8)
Maybe they should remove the titles and just leave it up to "preference"?
I find it ironic that the female depicted is streaming at the same straight-forward angle as the male! :laugh: They also seem to be simultaneously using a hair dryer on their long hair to save time.
I have used the ladies' room whenever presenting female, but it felt a bit awkward until my facial laser treatments got far enough along and until I started shaving my arms. Never one bad glance. I'm 6'1" although I'm quite thin thankfully. If anyone ever noticed they certainly didn't say anything.
One really funny scene was just before the Pride March in Toronto this summer. Near the march staging area everyone very quickly found the one washroom in the area in a nearby mall food court. Immediately a big line formed at the womens' and the mens' had no line. A couple women briefly debated aloud skipping the line and using the mens'. Nobody seemed to be concerned. I said to them, "Well, it is in the spirit of the event!" Just to make myself happy I waited out my turn in the womens' line. And with that I'd truly joined the girls' club! You haven't made it until you've had to wait in line.
We'll see tomorrow when Ill go shopping
Maybe I would pee my pants prematurely due to the anxiety :-X
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 02:12:29 AM
Seriously, just go in and pee. Don't make a big deal about it. You don't have to prove anything.
Agreed ^^___^^ just go in and pee, then leave. I hadn't thought about putting on lipstick attracting extra attention because women in my local Wal-Mart do it all the time. I can see though now why it prolly might not be a good idea. Evelyn if your 5-3 your shorter than I am at 5-5, and if your passing you shouldn't have any problems.
Allie
I use the ladies room if I have make up on or wearing a dress, otherwise I use the men's .
I jumped in head strong, day 1 of going full time I started using the womens restroom.
This one's easy: When you're out and your A. Need to pee and B. More people call you you "ma'am" than "sir".
After 3 months on HRT (dressed andro), I knew it was time one day when I got a strange look when I walked into the mens bathroom at a clients office building and the got a really shocked look by someone when I walked up to use a urinal. Later that day, a female employee at that client asked if I had left a ring in the women's bathroom. From then on I started going full time and using the women's restroom. Never had a problem since even at 6'7".
In the NYC area there are a lot of gender neutral restrooms. The two signs that I found kind of funny were this one:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fecx.images-amazon.com%2Fimages%2FI%2F719Lk-kuT0L._SY355_.jpg&hash=ae9a7ef5e111bec860e577ca1b33afb779bfceae)
and another one with the same logo that said: "Whatever" (It was at Henrietta Hudson, a lesbian bar in the the west village. Wish I had taken a picture of it.)
I use the women's bathroom when I am presenting as female and I use the men's room when I am presenting as male. Even though I have gotten some male fails no one has said anything about me using the men's room as of yet. No one has ever said anything to me in the women's room although I have gotten a few stares while waiting in that dang bathroom line for some reason. To heck with them.
I'm about to file my name and gender change and when that's complete it's full time women's room.
The laws in Hawaii are on my side.
So, if I expect to be treated like a woman, I use the woman's restroom.
I have had an odd look or two but really, you care less when you have to go.
I confess, I tend to frequent places that I know well enough to have a bathroom strategy, and I do prefer unisex rooms.
It is really comforting when a girlfriend will go in with me. Makes me feel like I have every right to be there. Then we sit, do our thing and chat the whole time.
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 02:53:39 PM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi57.tinypic.com%2Ffxrss3.jpg&hash=94cb656e2e448968a6941d4311b3b0a8e2c91cf8)
Designed by someone (ie a guy) who doesn't have much clue which direction women pee, if women
could pee forwards like that they wouldn't need to sit to pee!
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 25, 2014, 11:05:12 PM
Designed by someone (ie a guy) who doesn't have much clue which direction women pee, if women could pee forwards like that they wouldn't need to sit to pee!
Yup, definitely designed by a guy. I Agree 100%. Not only is the design wrong when it comes to how women pee, I think it's indecent.
Allie :icon_flower:
I'm weird.
I thought that pic was hilarious. But then again, I'm very hard to offend.
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 25, 2014, 02:53:39 PM
Maybe they should remove the titles and just leave it up to "preference"?
Here's a knock-on
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi60.tinypic.com%2F2ir2kb6.jpg&hash=f1115ca32362c3ffb901e6cc4259a95247d1e739)
Works for me ;D
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 26, 2014, 12:16:02 AM
Here's a knock-on
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Foi60.tinypic.com%2F2ir2kb6.jpg&hash=f1115ca32362c3ffb901e6cc4259a95247d1e739)
Works for me ;D
Hey I like this one. Here where I live unisex rest rooms are becoming popular though.
Allie :icon_flower:
Its almost that time for me.
I was at the pub with friends last night. Suddenly, that moment dreaded by all 'androgynous presenting trans' appears, too much wine. I see a sign on a door and after a long while cross legged, hoping the moment will pass, I take the plunge.
But I'm not there yet, so I sneak into the masculine. I do my business and hide/wait for others to leave before sneaking back out. I feel the shame on my face as I leave.
Why so sneaky? I think to myself. Is it my long hair, tied back in a cheeky pony tail? Or the two increasingly obvious bumps on my chest? The earrings? The light lip gloss? The tight shirt and sweater?
Today was a different story. Shopping in the city. A few too many coffees. I'd been ma'am'd already and I was feeling much better about everything. Even had a male stand to give me his seat on the tram, but being female isn't an enfeeblement, so I remained standing. So today I wasn't going to sneak and hide in the gents.
Today I would take my rightful seat... in the ladies!! (perhaps with some sneaking and hiding)
Quote from: Ms Grace on July 25, 2014, 11:05:12 PM
Designed by someone (ie a guy) who doesn't have much clue which direction women pee, if women could pee forwards like that they wouldn't need to sit to pee!
I've heard some women with practice can pee standing up much like a guy, at which point anyone they proudly tell of their 'accomplishment' accuses them of penis-envy. I suppose also nowadays no one is supposed dispute the validity of a (trans) woman proudly retaining and using their penis as they see fit. With that in mind, the cartoonish images on the doors actually look more like a standing cis woman and a squatting non-/pre-op transwoman.
Just curious - Have any transmen on here learned to pee standing without prosthetic help?
My first time in a group restroom was at Walmart with my mom. I had been on hrt for about 3 months. I didn't even think about, I simply followed her in. It was only afterwords that I realized it had been my first time.
My real defining moment came the next year. I was at the drive in movie with my mom and sister. At intermission, EVERYONE uses the restroom. I stood in line with them and literally 100 other women, did my business and walked out smiling.
I've sat down to pee all my life so it isn't really that different for me.
Quote from: Juliett on July 26, 2014, 10:13:54 AMI was at the drive in movie with my mom and sister.
Drive in movie? Was this in the 1960s?
Quote from: Lyric on July 26, 2014, 10:28:37 AM
Drive in movie? Was this in the 1960s?
A bit off topic, but they do still exist to this day, not nearly as popular as it once was, and frightfully expensive (as going to the movies in any capacity is). If you have never been I recommend it, just for the experience. I went to this one some years back" http://www.thefamilydriveintheatre.com/id81.html
Back on Topic, I have to say, that sometimes the family restroom is better anyways, in some places due to the line at the womens restroom. Mainly this is at the mall were there are hundreds of teenage girls, but not all that many families shopping.
Quote from: Evelyn K on July 24, 2014, 11:35:24 PM
I'm passing lately and it felt totally awkward at the urinal with men on either side. My hair is girlish long and I felt out of place. I'm presenting andro (well trying to).
When will I know?
... and what was your 1st time in a busy public women's restroom like for you?
I would say if you are passing and dressing as a woman, now would be the time. Definately when guys start kicking you oput of the men's room. Or start hitting on you like.... well I won't go into that.
I would like to be able to use the women's restroom now but that isn't possible.
If I would be able to get rid of those dangly things (no matter how else I looked - even without SRS)
I would try to use the women's. If questioned I could always say, "would you like to feel my crotch".
My take on this is simple, once you start being a woman, this means everything that comes with it. Including the proper restroom.
Here is an exert from the wpath
Rationale for a preoperative, 12-month experience of living in an identity-congruent gender role: The criterion noted above for some types of genital surgeries—i.e., that patients engage in 12 continuous months of living in a gender role that is congruent with their gender identity—is based on expert clinical consensus that this experience provides ample opportunity for patients to experience and socially adjust in their desired gender role, before undergoing irreversible surgery.
I'm gathering that the shared experience here is that often we are afraid to just use it regardless of how we present as female, and that we sometimes underestimate how unnoticed we might be if we try. I think when we look in the mirror as we transition, we do not see what others see. We're harder on ourselves, and it's hard to be coldly objective. We worry about fooling ourselves. We also are understandably a little risk-averse given that we get so much grief as a group, and the publicity some get when they are confronted.
I'm not hearing that many here have had problems, which is encouraging. Confidence and common sense seem to be the guide everyone is sharing.
What has been a little interesting for me is how the men's room now feels so off limits, as much so as women's was before I ever started.
The other interesting first for me was when I went in with my mother for the first time. I don't think she expected it, but she was very cool about it.
Quote from: Sabine on July 26, 2014, 02:23:30 PM
I'm not hearing that many here have had problems, which is encouraging. Confidence and common sense seem to be the guide everyone is sharing.
What has been a little interesting for me is how the men's room now feels so off limits, as much so as women's was before I ever started.
The other interesting first for me was when I went in with my mother for the first time. I don't think she expected it, but she was very cool about it.
The only time I've ever had a problem was when I wandered into the men's room by mistake, lol! The looks I got would slice right through you. The one comment I got when I realized my mistake and turned to leave I won't repeat for decency's sake.
Allie :icon_flower:
Well, I got lucky. I've spent most of my transition at home or on campus, and Portland State has restrooms for gender nonconforming people. While I was slowly tweaking my look to be more andro, I used those. I began using female restrooms on campus when I decided I had figured out the tipping point from andro to fem, and I made the commitment to go full-time.
My first time in a women's restroom was on campus, but it was still kind of scary. I was afraid I'd get maced and read as a guy, but I've never had any kind of bad interaction. I have also used women's rooms in other places. Most recently I got brave enough to do it in a local dive and nobody batted an eye.
The bathroom thing is really high on the list of benchmarks in your transition. If you're ready to do it, then you can be proud of yourself because it means you've come a long way.
Quote from: Sabine on July 26, 2014, 02:23:30 PM
What has been a little interesting for me is how the men's room now feels so off limits, as much so as women's was before I ever started.
Yes, i personally found it very surreal and quite humorous when i was out with my boyfriend and he used a public restroom. I had to stop myself and remember that I'm not allowed and it would actually cause quite a scene.
I am fortunate that my new workplace already has gender neutral toilets, so when I eventually get to the stage of being full time, and at work, I won't have problems with which toilet to use.
I observed something at my workplace that might make everyone feel a little bit better about using their washroom of choice. In addition to large gendered washrooms, the store where I work also has a single "Family Washroom". A number of the staff use this separate room almost exclusively because they are too self-conscious about doing their 'business' around anyone else. I know this for certain because a few of them have happened to clearly state that fact in conversations I've overheard. Probably for similar reasons I also have frequently observed male customers skipping the available urinals in favour of standing to urinate in the privacy of the toilet stalls. (This is the one thing I'll miss least about abandoning male washrooms for good - men insisting on splashing all over the seats. It's so unnecessary and rude!)
I used to be somewhat self-conscious about washroom use myself so I understand where they're coming from. Keep in mind the next time nature calls that many cis people you're sharing the washroom with may be significantly more uncomfortable than you about being in there. The last thing on their mind is who you are and what you look like.
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 03:26:38 AM
Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.
It's not like... ...the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.
Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.
B-b-but, I was promised
COUCHES! :'(
Quote from: Carrie Liz on July 25, 2014, 03:26:38 AM
Lol... sometimes I seriously wonder about you, Ev. :P
Seriously, it's not that hard to imagine. It's a bathroom. It looks exactly like the men's room, just with more stalls and less urinals. Aside from that, and maybe a disposal container for feminine hygiene products next to the toilet, they're exactly the same.
It's not like the men's room has a horse trough and pictures of strippers on the walls, and the women's room has frilly pink toilet seats and issues of Marie Claire in each stall or anything. It's just a bathroom. You go there, you pee, you wash your hands, you leave.
Again, don't make such a big deal out of it. Bathrooms are utilitarian places.
That is a valid arguement for eliminating gendered restrooms. Multi user unsex restrooms would also save space and be more cost efficient. They would provide more security for all vulnerable users as the existance of greater number of users would make it less likely that they would be alone with a pervert (either male of female). All that would be required would be the elimination of open urinals (or urinals in general) and adequate privacy for the stalls. There is absolutely no logical reason for separate facilities.