I am curious about denial. What our journeys have been. Some have been mtf or maybe ftm then found themselves here. Others came here and found themselves there. It seems really hard for most of us to figure out who we are, vs who we were trained to be, vs who we wanted to be. And then there is the dsyphoria working some of us over, one of my close friends says "the mirror is not our friend"... I can certainly agree with that one, on body dysphoria.
I denied being GQ, it cost me, figured it out in time, Aisla and the shrink having both intervened...bringing me to the unicorn forest, a term I didn't know of until tonight... cool
Yet many mtf's think I am in denial and ultimately I will full time transition some day. Which does not ring true in my spirit for me.
And I do know self deception can be exceedingly dangerous, especially when irreversable surgery comes into play.
Thoughts? Thought it could be beneficial to us as nonbinaries.
Well, for me it was more a revelation about the flexible and breakable nature of gender. I think that I was in denial for several years on the subject because it was the only way I could make sense of my need to transition: That you are either a man or a woman, and everything from the way you speak to the clothes you wear must fall into one of those two categories. It took a year or so of living full time to realize that this notion was completely illogical. That being said, I can't speak for not desiring surgery-I like looking androgynous, but I am genuinely transexual (as well as nonbinary) so I am seeking FFS and bottom surgery-I think that transexism must be entirely different in cause than ->-bleeped-<-, because no matter how liberated I feel in realizing that gender is a flexible thing, I still can't get over the fact that my body is simply incorrect.
I know what you mean about being looked at as "in denial"-It's almost certainly a generational thing, but in my circles the stigma is on people who DO seek surgery. I only know one binary trans* person, and everyone else keeps telling me that I only want surgery because the world around me is pressuring me to do so. It's very interesting how that's completely reversed over the years, I must say!
I spent the best part of my life denying being trans. I'd make plans for transition, and never followed through. I only made it to one support group meeting, and I vehemently said to myself "I am not like them..."
In my deepest heart of hearts, I'm probably a girly girl. But there has been so much deep inculcation as a male, that I doubt I could ever fully shake it off. Lifetime of habits and all, so I accept that I am a chimera.
Having been on low dose HRT, I see glimpses of her in the mirror at times. I don't deny her existence, but for now she has to stay safely cosseted away from the world, as it can be such a cruel place at times.
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 29, 2014, 08:56:11 PM
Yet many mtf's think I am in denial and ultimately I will full time transition some day.
SJ I only say that because of your post's at times. You have a lot of depressive times and some times elude to not being happy with the conditions placed on you by others. I honestly feel that if these restrictions or conditions were not in place you would definitely go further down transition road. How far I cannot say, but you would go further. Of course this is my personal interpretation of the tone in your post's. I could very well be wrong, but my intuition says no I am not. :)
Jessica,
We all tend to chafe when placed under the restrictions and expectations of others. It's human nature.
Placing oneself voluntarily so, as SJ has, makes things all the harder - and there is hat need for release/relief at times.
Unfettered, I probably would have undergone a full binary transition, I make no secret of it. But there are sufficient reasons not to do so. A few different decisions at a few crossroads in life, and I would have been done more than 10 years ago, if not sooner. Would I have been happier? Hard to say.
So I'd say I'm not in denial of what I am anymore. I'm just being pragmatic about it...
I still think that if my wife had not had to go and live in a nursing home would I have transitioned.
We all carry guilt I guess.
I don't honestly know where I do, or where I will, fit into the spectrum. Maybe I will end up binary, and maybe I will not. Are my thoughts still welcome here?
My entire life has been a struggle between denial and dysphoria. At times one or the other holds so much sway that I don't even notice the struggle. I worry that the struggle itself has completely destroyed my self-identity, and that it may perhaps never be found.
Denial has been so strong for me, that it gives me what I feel like is a strange sense of dysphoria, reversed from the experiences that most others seem to have shared here. As one example, I will often grow out my hair, though out of self-neglect more than the typical desire to have longer, more feminine hair. Eventually though, it reaches the point where when I look into the mirror, I see her, or an echo of her. The first time this happened my heart actually stopped, followed by a tumult of conflicting elation and despair, joy and heartache, epiphany and confusion.
Seeing myself triggers my dysphoria, opening a floodgate of uncertainty. Then denial takes hold, and the uncertainty must be destroyed, so I shave myself bald. That is what the man in the mirror must look like, even as I dissociate myself from it.
There is strength in denial, uncertainty and weakness in acceptance. One is comfortable and secure, the other, terrifying. One is easy, and the other, so very hard. How do you even begin to wade through the comfortable self-deception to find a true self you've desperately buried for so long? What if the two are now blended, never to be separated; can the Self still be found?
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 29, 2014, 08:56:11 PM
Yet many mtf's think I am in denial and ultimately I will full time transition some day.
Transitioning isn't just for traditional MtFs. I'm non-binary, but I transitioned fully.
Though I've always wanted to transition. If that's not true for you, then don't act on it.
It really isn't about labels. We can drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out whether we're MtF, GenderQueer, bigender, genderfluid, etc., when what's really important is that we find the presentation that works for us.
Quote from: suzifrommd on July 30, 2014, 08:00:18 AM
It really isn't about labels. We can drive ourselves crazy trying to figure out whether we're MtF, GenderQueer, bigender, genderfluid, etc., when what's really important is that we find the presentation that works for us.
I have been pushing this sense that labels can lead us into boxes that we have a hard time finding our ways out of.
What is worse?
Not having a label for ourselves or finding ourselves in one that we feel just as obligated to stay in and deny ourselves our true selves?
It's been coming around to this breaking down the barriers that have been in place for too long between binary and non-binary.
Sarah7 has such a good handle on this, I can't even begin to tell you all the revelations of reading her short and sweet comments about this.
The barriers are beginning to fall, we don't have to classify our
selves as anything other than what we truly want to be.
Isn't this the point? Isn't getting away from the rules imposed by a cis world the point?
To be who we truly are?
Then why do some impose the same kinds of standards of having to fit somewhere within the trans community?
It's a carry over from what they imposed in the first place? The security of knowing you fit in yet another box?
Doesn't make sense to me, it has placed far to many restrictions on people over the years, yet it also brings a sense of belonging to many.
It's time to stop this nonsense of imposing standards on anyone within the community, to let everyone explore who they are.
Isn't that the end goal here? To be who you are without the imposed boxes that society wants you to be placed it?
The tipping point is near, the old way of looking at ourselves is getting us into areas that keep coming up as a problem for to many people.
Support is broken down into those who fit these boxes and those who don't, yet there is a sense of relief that I read more frequently, all the time.
I see it when someone does this and the rebel in me says very quietly, 'good for you'.
And then I turn around and read comment after comment of people explaining to others about why you have to tow the line of a certain box or label.
I always advocate for people to be who you are, not a label, not a box, be descriptive about yourselves, not another damn description you have to live up to or live within, we just aren't that kind of people to start with.
If anything, there are some who delude themselves into thinking they have to fit somewhere, when just being yourself is the best fit of all.
Look at the nature of so many posts that deal with the explanations that describe who you are supposed to be, when the question had nothing to do with that.
It was a question of how do you get away from the boxes of imposition that society, cis and otherwise have placed on you to start with.
You do it by defying those boxes in the first place.
Be yourself.
Stop telling people they need to fit in one, they just managed to get out of one that suppressed them for too many years.
Support isn't another box or label, it's supporting the person's journey, not their destination, that will come soon enough.
Ativan
I think my problem with denial for so long was the influence of my father. My mother died when I was 8 and my father took care of me and my siblings. He never remarried and as far as I'm aware never dated after her death. He was aware of my special condition and lovingly tried to point the way to manhood. I think it caused me to try so hard to bury my inner self out of respect for my father. I was in such conflict for so long until finally accepting who I was .
SJ
Boxes, destinations, delusion v reality. Deep down I suspect that we all just wish to be accepted. In many cases this leads us to trade off self acceptance for group acceptance. The irony is powerful.
As trans* we have accepted that our dysphoria needs to be addressed and that we need to change to grow. Far easier, less risky to accept the norms of another group than to journey through uncertain country and across unchartered seas. I suspect that, for some, it is just more practical, easier, less stressful and affirming to find the more comfortable box and to establish a home.
The non binary, the free spirit, the soul that doesn't seek a box, is uncomfortable with restricted choices and seeks full and authentic self expression, boxes are constraints, they don't provide shelter, they imprison, restrict choice and imprison.
(As an aside I have some sympathy for Winston Churchill when he reportedly said that he would not seek to join any club whose membership criteria permitted him to join.)
And so to Jera's comment ... What if our identity has changed, what if we are 'deluded' and our true self can no longer be found? Is this a Gordian knot to be undone or a tangle to be sliced by a sword? ... What is reality and what is illusion?
Does it really matter? In making choices and in expression, we bestow legitimacy, we change and we transmute. Nothing is permanent. At our very core, is what exactly? A spirit, a soul? A set of deeply held, but rarely questioned values? Nothing? Pick something, join a new group, pick a box, any box or why not pick up a compass, find a chart then map your course. A little more confronting, a little more empowering, but the views are spectacular, the fellow travellers more compelling. Committing to the journey is an heroic quest - the experience, the perspective will be yours alone and indeed second to none.
At the end of their days when the weary traveller, knows that they have exhausted themselves, that they are fully spent. Will they yearn for, or regret, not having built a home within a box, or to have travelled long and far? Both are legitimate choices but for the non binary, the choice was ever clear.
Safe travels
Aisle
Denial, that is a river I know something about. Pretty much every important existential change I have had in my life has had denial as a precursor. In every case I have clung to the familiar, held on to the conventional, chosen the mundane, until I was forced to choose between light and darkness. Jera commented on how terrifying it is to discard self deception and move into authenticity. The terror is sometimes unfounded, sometimes not. I knew the possible consequences of being a transexual woman. I have seen the pain, heartbreak and sadness in people I have loved. I know the terminal stages of addiction. I have watched friends die of aids. Denial is a tool to cope with the unthinkable. The problem is it eventually fails and we are left with desolation of spirit.
Until I become desperate I have extraordinary difficulty with leaving the inauthentic lie, and living an uncomfortable truth. Denying that in my deepest heart I was a girl for almost six decades was a root of denying that drugs and alcohol are poison in my system. Looking for anything that let me believe that I was not a fake and a fraud is a big piece of many dysfunctional relationships and was a foundation for a couple of co-dependent marriages.
A tool is only valuable for as long as it works. For two and a half years I have sought to become authentic; to discard the lies, fear, and loss; to embrace life, health, and love. I don't fear for those of us who are seeking a non-binary authentic life. That they are here, that they are seekers, that they are beautiful and courageous, transcends any possible element of denial. We are a community. I've never felt community before. I would do almost anything for anyone here who is in pain or needs a friend.
That we seek, that we journey towards truth is the critical element in my pilgrimage to authenticity, and acceptance. Truth comes in small bits for me. Enough to need to seek more, not so much as to destroy my sense of self.
An edit: Thank you Aisla, once again you are spot on ;)
Love to you all,
Julie
Quote from: androgynouspainter26 on July 29, 2014, 09:56:46 PM
Well, for me it was more a revelation about the flexible and breakable nature of gender. I think that I was in denial for several years on the subject because it was the only way I could make sense of my need to transition: That you are either a man or a woman, and everything from the way you speak to the clothes you wear must fall into one of those two categories. It took a year or so of living full time to realize that this notion was completely illogical. That being said, I can't speak for not desiring surgery-I like looking androgynous, but I am genuinely transexual (as well as nonbinary) so I am seeking FFS and bottom surgery-I think that transexism must be entirely different in cause than ->-bleeped-<-, because no matter how liberated I feel in realizing that gender is a flexible thing, I still can't get over the fact that my body is simply incorrect.
I know what you mean about being looked at as "in denial"-It's almost certainly a generational thing, but in my circles the stigma is on people who DO seek surgery. I only know one binary trans* person, and everyone else keeps telling me that I only want surgery because the world around me is pressuring me to do so. It's very interesting how that's completely reversed over the years, I must say!
I do see a generational difference in perspective and I do sense that, as Ativan believes, significant change is afoot. Folk are an interesting contradiction - we are social and like to 'belong' yet we bridle and we resent normative constraints. Younger folk have new lenses, they can see, touch and smell the bs. Self expression is highly valued and we are starting to see its impact. This is a very good thing indeed.
Aisla
I had no deviant gender or sexual proclivities whatsoever and had been something of a womanizer early on and up to my marriage. I enjoyed sexual trysts with attractive women and more than that I enjoyed the process of coming on to them so subtly that they would think that it was all their own idea. As time passed I began to realize that it wasn't the sexual aspects of relationships between men and women that had attracted me, but that I was more attracted to the female gender because I loved the feminine side over the masculine aspects of life.
I had been through a war doing as men do, stalking and killing each other and had become repulsed by the idea that this rite of passage was my only due and was expected because I was a male. I began to question the attitudes and ideas put forth in Playboy Forum and began to loathe that leering bastard in his pajamas with the pipe for foisting his crap off on men and women. I had seen a Playboy centerfold of a beautiful woman presented to me in Vietnam and was asked if I'd like to do her, and in my mind I said, "Hell no, I want to be her far away from this awful place!" That along with seeing Joey Heatherton's pouty beautiful face and long sexy legs at a Bob Hope event was the internal revelation that would never let up.
Initially I had decided that I was indeed MtF and it didn't take any counselor to convince me that was where I was headed, that was well over twenty years ago. I started HRT back in 1994 and had an orchiectomy thirteen years ago. It was about eleven years ago that I paid Dr. Marcie Bowers $500 for an SRS consultation and met her at her part-time office in Nordstrom Tower at Swedish Hospital here in Seattle. She agreed that I was a good candidate and since I had letters from a therapist and Dr. Anne Lawrence who I had seen early on, and from the urologist in Portland, Oregon who had removed my family jewels, also from the VA endocrinologist, I was good to go. I had brought my spouse along who hit it off rather well with Dr. Bowers and asked a lot of questions, many of which I had not even considered because I was head long and hell bent to do this thing. It was an interesting and lengthy conversation and to be honest, it opened up my eyes to a lot of stuff that I had not considered, things that I really didn't want to have to deal with later, and then this would have been the straw that broke the camel's back in our relationship though divorce was not an option, we felt we would be miserable living together like that, one real woman and one pseudo-woman, it just wasn't going to work.
As time passed I began to realize the gravity of what I had done, we were hinged at the hip as married couples go and we were forever getting "ma'am-ed and you ladies" until I finally felt that I had been suffering from self delusion as I looked in the mirror and said "Are you shi**ing me you dumb fu*k?" I pulled my diamond stud earrings out of my ears and had my spouse mow my head into a GI-Joe buzz cut and went off HRT for two years and became very ill with no hormonal base at all and now have to take a thyroid booster because of it as my thyroid took a big hit. I tried injectable testosterone which lasted for only one week, I hated it because it turned me into an instant a** hole and caused my face to be red as if I had drinker's flush. I went back on female HRT but since I had fallen through the endocrinology department's cracks at VA I decided to self medicate and gave myself a nasty life threatening case of DVT. That being history I have now come to the place where I realized that I had taken everything way overboard in my initial enthusiasm and that we are all uniquely different and should never think that transitioning is a one size fits all proposition, because obviously it's not. I have become quite content with adapting to a non-binary androgynous persona and outward expression and have found great acceptance from family and friends who love me as I am even though they consider me a bit eccentric. One of the women we meet daily at our Starbucks coffee Klatch is making me my favorite, a carrot cake for my upcoming birthday August 3rd I am well loved and accepted by those that count and I couldn't be happier.
I don't think I have ever really denied it. Sure I have hidden it maybe I did try to deny it at times but it was always there no matter what. I have tried to do the masculine manly man things and so on and spent four years of my life stuck as having to be full male with tiny little breaks in between. There was nothing more reaffirming that I wasn't a real man while constantly being around a lot of real masculine males with no way to escape. Even though it was an experience and I probably wouldn't change it, it was also one of the most oppressive uncomfortable few years of my life. It did let me see that I am not really a male in the true sense of the word. I am nonbinary I think but lean heavily toward female. Yes it is confusing sometimes and dysphoric at others but most of the times I can fight it back or beat it down. nature did do me some favors though and I really don't know how to explain it but it just seems to have become a part of me. Who knows? Maybe I have done driven myself insane 'cause what I wrote sure sounds crazy even to me. ???
Quote from: Shantel on July 30, 2014, 10:49:16 AM
I have now come to the place where I realized that I had taken everything way overboard in my initial enthusiasm and that we are all uniquely different and should never think that transitioning is a one size fits all proposition, because obviously it's not. I have become quite content with adapting to a non-binary androgynous persona and outward expression and have found great acceptance from family and friends who love me as I am even though they consider me a bit eccentric. I am well loved and accepted by those that count and I couldn't be happier.
Shantel
We are indeed each very different. We are unique. We shouldn't be in a hurry to pick one box or one set of norms over another. A journey of discovery and authentic self expression has many twists and turns, but is never boring. At the end of the day if the most negative comment you receive, is that you are a little unusual or eccentric, then it is a pretty decent outcome and fair reward for a life well lived.
Safe travels
Aisla
Quote from: Jess42 on July 30, 2014, 11:04:48 AM
I don't think I have ever really denied it. Sure I have hidden it maybe I did try to deny it at times but it was always there no matter what. .... It did let me see that I am not really a male in the true sense of the word. I am nonbinary I think but lean heavily toward female. Yes it is confusing sometimes and dysphoric at others but most of the times I can fight it back or beat it down. nature did do me some favors though and I really don't know how to explain it but it just seems to have become a part of me. Who knows? Maybe I have done driven myself insane 'cause what I wrote sure sounds crazy even to me. ???
Jess
If you are insane then I suspect that you are not alone. What you have experienced and what you have written, sounds pretty sane to me. As non binary we may not be a homogeneous group but our respective journeys feel familiar. Our journeys do not feel like denial or even optional, I experience it almost as a need or a compulsion to explore and in so doing to discover and to express myself.
Aisla
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 30, 2014, 01:59:39 AM
SJ I only say that because of your post's at times. You have a lot of depressive times and some times elude to not being happy with the conditions placed on you by others. I honestly feel that if these restrictions or conditions were not in place you would definitely go further down transition road. How far I cannot say, but you would go further. Of course this is my personal interpretation of the tone in your post's. I could very well be wrong, but my intuition says no I am not. :)
Ah my dear you are only wrong about you being the trigger! No worries there at all, or with anyone here for that matter. The trigger in one sense me in my own self deception, and in something my shrink said.
As to the transition compromise, yes I would go farther down the road, but the price is too high.
I have to go back off forum, and I love all of you very deeply. It may be a while... but I don't want Lady Jess or anyone else to think they were the mtf triggering the denial thread. Denial is simply something we all have to overcome as trans, whatever box may be around or not around, we are pretty good at hiding our cores from ourselves and need help to find that diamond.
Blessings and love, now I really must disappear for a while :(
Tears are flowing. Be well
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 30, 2014, 04:30:00 PM
Ah my dear you are only wrong about you being the trigger! No worries there at all, or with anyone here for that matter. The trigger in one sense me in my own self deception, and in something my shrink said.
As to the transition compromise, yes I would go farther down the road, but the price is too high.
I have to go back off forum, and I love all of you very deeply. It may be a while... but I don't want Lady Jess or anyone else to think they were the mtf triggering the denial thread. Denial is simply something we all have to overcome as trans, whatever box may be around or not around, we are pretty good at hiding our cores from ourselves and need help to find that diamond.
Blessings and love, now I really must disappear for a while :(
Tears are flowing. Be well
C'mon SatinJoy, don't leave. It would be a cold day in hell before anyone self-identifying as MtF would manipulate my feelings on the Non-Binary Forum, I don't care who it is! This is a support site, I resent militant types or anyone trying to play mental health counselor questioning other people's motives for their personal choices.
Quote from: Satinjoy on July 30, 2014, 04:30:00 PM
Ah my dear you are only wrong about you being the trigger! No worries there at all, or with anyone here for that matter. The trigger in one sense me in my own self deception, and in something my shrink said.
As to the transition compromise, yes I would go farther down the road, but the price is too high.
I have to go back off forum, and I love all of you very deeply. It may be a while... but I don't want Lady Jess or anyone else to think they were the mtf triggering the denial thread. Denial is simply something we all have to overcome as trans, whatever box may be around or not around, we are pretty good at hiding our cores from ourselves and need help to find that diamond.
Blessings and love, now I really must disappear for a while :(
Tears are flowing. Be well
You will be missed, but I completely understand doing what you have to do. Safe journeys. :icon_hug:
I am sorry SJ! I really am. I also apologize to all the non binaries who are offended by my posting. I do not discriminate against any group at all even though some of you seem to think differently. A question was asked and I responded from my own personal experience which is what I thought this great place was for. I DO understand non binary and do not try to talk ANYONE into transition if they have no interest in it. I will refrain from posting in non binary topics anymore. I will just moderate and edit according to Susan's guidelines. Again SJ and all non binaries accept my apologies for any offense taken. :(
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 30, 2014, 05:58:28 PM
I am sorry SJ! I really am. I also apologize to all the non binaries who are offended by my posting. I do not discriminate against any group at all even though some of you seem to think differently. A question was asked and I responded from my own personal experience which is what I thought this great place was for. I DO understand non binary and do not try to talk ANYONE into transition if they have no interest in it. I will refrain from posting in non binary topics anymore. I will just moderate and edit according to Susan's guidelines. Again SJ and all non binaries accept my apologies for any offense taken. :(
Aw Hon. I didn't take any offense whatsoever. Chill sis. I'm nonbinary and have absolutely no idea what is down the road for me but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. I find all your post extremely helpful to me and others. All we can ever give is our own view points. To be completely honest some days I am right on the edge of jumping the cliff and going full out and other days I am perfectly satisified and others still torn between the two directions.
I can't speak for everyone but I don't feel you discriminated toward me in the least little bit. As a matter of fact I wish someone would push me toward what I want but am so unsure of. You know what I mean? :-\ Believe it or not everyone's experiences and opinions are extremely imortant when it comes to someone like me and where I'm at right now. ;)
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on July 30, 2014, 05:58:28 PM
I am sorry SJ! I really am. I also apologize to all the non binaries who are offended by my posting. I do not discriminate against any group at all even though some of you seem to think differently. A question was asked and I responded from my own personal experience which is what I thought this great place was for. I DO understand non binary and do not try to talk ANYONE into transition if they have no interest in it. I will refrain from posting in non binary topics anymore. I will just moderate and edit according to Susan's guidelines. Again SJ and all non binaries accept my apologies for any offense taken. :(
It was a good heartfelt apology Jessica, I'll speak for others and say thank you! I hope whatever happened won't affect her sobriety, she is a sweet soul. We and myself especially have to be careful that we don't inadvertently drive someone over the edge with our own thoughts and comments. I'm careful to temper my own stuff and still fail miserably at times. So many have delicate sensibilities which is often exacerbated hormonally. I appreciate you and your comments here girlfriend!
My thoughts are real simple. Be you. That's it. If you aren't an ->-bleeped-<- or something then I have no problem whatsoever in what a person does with themselves, how they lead their lives, its their's after all, not mine. I have my own life and lead it accordingly to how I need to and don't expect anyone to tell me any different, besides if they did I'd still lead my life the way I always do. I spent too many years in denial as was early in my life, scared of what people would think, this cost me years of happiness which caused me to be self-destructive, and to hide away from people which once I did come out of hiding now finding it difficult to find my place. If only I had been able to let me out earlier. But I wasn't ready, not yet. It takes a lot of courage to be yourself in such a harsh, judgmental world where conformity rules true freedom, that is being you without fears of being unaccepted or worst. Don't ever feel you have to be forced to do something, whatever it be, or be something you're not, just because others think you should. Anyone trying to force change on you or make you feel bad about being who you are, that person is an ->-bleeped-<-. You find your comfort zone and if that's where you wish to stay, so be it, then that is who you are. Change for yourself, not for others, and as much as need be, to do less or too much or in the wrong way will only lead to unhappiness.
Girls, guys, so sorry I triggered all this
No applogies of any kind are needed
I am in a personal family and work and financial crisis familiar to most of us who transition and keep our families and jobs etc. Every moment and ounce of my energy must go to this, and I am in hostile environments. If it all crashed down, and it stands upon a hair right now, I have a wonderful mtf binary dear friend that will take me in and keep me safe.
I have rock solid sobriety
Do not fear, I am a survivor
I will return when I can, right now, I must preserve the life I was gifted with, and I have to keep from crying so much.
PM's will get to me
I have to go I could get fired for posting
Love to all here, I mean it. No binary or non binary issue here, and Jessica is a dear friend and triggered nothing. I was denying that the light at the end of the tunnel, instead of sunlight, is a train, and I am going to stop it before it takes me down.
Nails out and head up. I will return when it is safe.
Be well and take care of yourself, you know what is at stake living as a transsexual, binary, non binary, or purple. We have to be very smart.
God Bless You.
This post has been edited based on Jessica's comments, which are truth. I am very embarrassed but will leave this here anyway. :( Since it came from the heart, and I need to look at it and learn from it.
_______________________________
Denial is pervasive for me. It is exascerbated by dysphoria, by fear, by all kinds of emotions. Eyes are not open enough to see the consequences of actions. Dysphoria powerfully blinding me to the needs of others, as it hungrily seeks for more, more, always more. The pain of dysphoria when it is not accommodated increases into its own deceptions and causes rationalization to make that pain more manageable. Meanwhile, the dysphoria takes more and more of mental time and energy, until it gradually becomes everything, not just a simple fact of being both male and female, or in transition, or on hormones, but transobsession begans quietly and subtly to steal, relationships, precious time from family and loved ones, hours in front of the computer instead of in laughter and incense and candles... tricky stuff this stuff.
Then the denial of the sheer power of dysphoria kicks in, the possibility that it can take me over the edge to self destructive behaviors.... I cannot deny that I need help, and am foolish to think i can handle this alone, bluster through, recognize myown cognitive distortions while a powerful need inside will push us to justify anything and everything we need to do to ease that suffering from the recoil of seeing ourselves in the mirror in a way that does not agree with our self perception, our physical dysphoric needs, or our core personalities.
Triggers have taken deep into depression. Obsession is destroying my marriage and job. The need for acceptance causes me to act out in ways that can be unsafe in a society that is clueless of who we are and what we have to deal with.
Leading me into deep interdependence with each other, seeking nurturing, validation, just help getting through the day. Needing each other since the others get it, they understand,but I am easily unbalanced and can spiral suddenly to the edge, finding the only way out is through looking up to the God that made us who we are, and being wise to the enemy of our souls that would pull us down into the abyss using his tools of deception and despair.
I do not want to be in denial, I need by eyes wide open to all that my dysphoria will do, good and bad.
Blessings my dears.
Love to all here.
I know everyone here will take this wrong, but it is not meant to be that way. :(
SJ, you know I really care about you and the others here, a lot. I have dedicated my new life to helping those who are lost and alone to deal with an incredibly hard and stressful issue in their lives. I have to admit your post upset me quite a lot. To call a known and recognizable medical issue a Transobsession and give the reader the idea that this is an attack by an evil entity that can be cured by belief is quite simply doing all an injustice. I feel I am at this point in my life by a plan of the creator. I have lived as a dedicated Christian all my life and have even taught several classes on it and used the lessons learned to help the victims of terrible trauma's in their lives. I entered their lives when family members were killed or permanently disabled by horrific accidents or acts of humankind. I sat with them for hours and even visited them on my own time and money. I still get the occasional check in call and thanks for what I did for them in their time of need. There is no way I could have done that being under the control of some evil entity guiding me from the right path. I believe the creator placed this issue in my path to teach me tolerance and acceptance of others in a spirit of honest and genuine caring which are or should be Christian value's. In my humble opinion it it equally evil to deny what the creator is telling you to do. Have you ever wondered why we are so controlled by this and feel much better when we finally accept it and follow this guiding voice? I feel your last post smacks of pride that you honestly believe you can or are in charge of this. You simply are not, period. If being trans was an attempt to bring us on the wrong path why has the creator given gifts to individuals to assist and provide medical assistance to us in a loving and caring manner? You remind me a little of all the reparative pray the gay and trans away I was subject to as a child. I know what you are thinking right now, did I pray to see if this was the act and will of our creator. The answer is yes. I prayed every day for 40 years that I would not have to endure this and upend my life. I received my answer when I was close to ending my life. THAT was the thought (suicide) an evil entity who did not want to see the creators plan come to fruition. When I accepted what me creator wanted me to do I actually felt doubt, denial and to some degree hatred leave my body all at once. I suddenly saw why I was subjected to my career and all it entailed. My life plan was revealed and I know now I was placed here at Susan's by our creator to continue to provide love, compassion and make sure the evil one did not corrupt any of the creators work and plans for those here. I had to endure what I did for 40 years so I could honestly support others with the wisdom gained all those years. We do not have the answers for a lot we go through in life and lose, but true Christians trust the creator and his will and do not argue against it with mans logic or rationalization, but trust the creator fully. I suggest you look deeper inside yourself and see why you do not trust what your creator is telling you to do. I am not accusing you of a lack of faith, but I am wondering why you cannot accept the feelings inside you. Your life and all the possessions and people in your life are not yours, but the creators to do with what he needs and desires. If you are a strong believer you will know this is true and we will be reunited with them all one day for eternity. We are only here for a very small amount of time to do the creators work and to glorify and praise him for the blessings we have or had.
Good post Jessica, I think this has been bothering you and I'm glad that you got it off your chest so beautifully. We are all uniquely different and see things through different eyes and so we often internalize things a bit differently but what would be so unusual about that, especially among believers? I have often said that Jesus Himself is like a diamond in many ways, multifaceted and each new way we see him as we grow in maturity and in grace and knowledge, then we understand something new as we get some insight from yet another angle. For that reason we all need to be patient and accepting of one another. Interestingly, the last on the list of the fruits of the spirit is self control, something we all can work on as we try to get our point across to others, some points are acceptable now and others not so much so but will be later as it's all a matter of growth and maturity. My comments here are not aimed at anyone but are applicable to all of us.
jessica, i have seen your love and care in all your posts. even when the things you've said might have seemed like a push towards full transition, i always read them as a push to be true to yourself and find out what you really need, rather than place all kinds of limitations on yourself because it feels safer to stay in, or partly in denial. your wish to help is genuine, and i respect you a lot for that.
and thank you for this latest post. it has taken me time to accept and come to love the fact that i was born trans rather than cis. so many say they wish they weren't, which is as natural as it is for a one-armed man to wish he'd been born with two. but i do believe there is purpose in learning to live with it, and learning to love myself just the way that i was created, seems to be necessary in order to love my neighbor and my creator the way i should. accepting reality has helped me let go of so much unneeded bitterness.
i'm still not closer to transitioning, but that's just because of society. i can still live true to myself without transitioning, it just takes more effort as i don't have any diagnose to show people as proof that i'm born different.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on August 05, 2014, 05:55:07 PM
I know everyone here will take this wrong, but it is not meant to be that way. :(
SJ, you know I really care about you and the others here, a lot. I have dedicated my new life to helping those who are lost and alone to deal with an incredibly hard and stressful issue in their lives. I have to admit your post upset me quite a lot. To call a known and recognizable medical issue a Transobsession and give the reader the idea that this is an attack by an evil entity that can be cured by belief is quite simply doing all an injustice. I feel I am at this point in my life by a plan of the creator. I have lived as a dedicated Christian all my life and have even taught several classes on it and used the lessons learned to help the victims of terrible trauma's in their lives. I entered their lives when family members were killed or permanently disabled by horrific accidents or acts of humankind. I sat with them for hours and even visited them on my own time and money. I still get the occasional check in call and thanks for what I did for them in their time of need. There is no way I could have done that being under the control of some evil entity guiding me from the right path. I believe the creator placed this issue in my path to teach me tolerance and acceptance of others in a spirit of honest and genuine caring which are or should be Christian value's. In my humble opinion it it equally evil to deny what the creator is telling you to do. Have you ever wondered why we are so controlled by this and feel much better when we finally accept it and follow this guiding voice? I feel your last post smacks of pride that you honestly believe you can or are in charge of this. You simply are not, period. If being trans was an attempt to bring us on the wrong path why has the creator given gifts to individuals to assist and provide medical assistance to us in a loving and caring manner? You remind me a little of all the reparative pray the gay and trans away I was subject to as a child. I know what you are thinking right now, did I pray to see if this was the act and will of our creator. The answer is yes. I prayed every day for 40 years that I would not have to endure this and upend my life. I received my answer when I was close to ending my life. THAT was the thought (suicide) an evil entity who did not want to see the creators plan come to fruition. When I accepted what me creator wanted me to do I actually felt doubt, denial and to some degree hatred leave my body all at once. I suddenly saw why I was subjected to my career and all it entailed. My life plan was revealed and I know now I was placed here at Susan's by our creator to continue to provide love, compassion and make sure the evil one did not corrupt any of the creators work and plans for those here. I had to endure what I did for 40 years so I could honestly support others with the wisdom gained all those years. We do not have the answers for a lot we go through in life and lose, but true Christians trust the creator and his will and do not argue against it with mans logic or rationalization, but trust the creator fully. I suggest you look deeper inside yourself and see why you do not trust what your creator is telling you to do. I am not accusing you of a lack of faith, but I am wondering why you cannot accept the feelings inside you. Your life and all the possessions and people in your life are not yours, but the creators to do with what he needs and desires. If you are a strong believer you will know this is true and we will be reunited with them all one day for eternity. We are only here for a very small amount of time to do the creators work and to glorify and praise him for the blessings we have or had.
Clearly I am not well at the moment, hence off forum. I do not believe I am trans by accident.
That being said, the obsession is the issue for me, not being trans. I will have more later, your post is powerful, you are right about the pride, and I am still adjusting to my world being rocked at home and at work.
I am very tired. Why can I not accept? I don't know. But I had one horrible childhood and some of the church things has been destructive.
You words have power, I am greatful for them.
Blessings, and thank you for that post.
I may edit mine later.
As a former long term member of the unicorn forest I know a little about denial. Note that I am *not* saying that the unicorn forest is a place where people stay for awhile before going over the falls of transition, but it was the case for me and it was the case for a number of other forum members that I could name. Many find the unicorn forest a comfortable place to be while figuring things out.
Some people believe that a non-binary person is just a transsexual in denial; I totally disagree with that view; not every non-binary needs to transition. And that's perfectly OK - be who ya are. The fact that some non-binaries feel pressured by others to transition is just wrong. There is no shame in taking the time to think about who you are; figuring this stuff out can be hard and can be hard to accept. If you decide that you are somewhere in the middle that's OK.
I stayed in the unicorn forest for a long time because I suspected that I was a TS and I didn't want to admit it. When my self destructive behavior finally drove me to see a therapist I was still in denial and I wanted her to provide a "fix" so I could keep living the old life. After 3 months of therapy I was forced to accept the truth of who I am. And I went over the falls of transition. I will admit that on some days I feel more genderfluid than female, but I mostly just feel like "me".
SJ - just be yourself Hun. If you are a non-binary that's fine, and if you figure out you're a TS that's fine too. Whatever you are people are here willing to support you.
Jessica - nice perspective on spirituality and being who the Creator wants us to be.
I edited that which was probably offensive or ego driving out of that post.
I am still unstable. Working on getting it back. Just had too much hit at once, I have a breaking point, and I reached it.
So sorry.
It is important to me to separate the concepts of religion with the idea of spirituality. Acceptance is essential to the latter, not to the former. For me there can not be a connection to the infinite sans acceptance and without that connection I am unable to live authentically. To put it another way there are no inauthentic paths to acceptance, and without acceptance, authenticity is impossible.
I cannot live a life of self deception (denial if you will) about who I am and how I see my place on this amazing planet if I am unable or unwilling to face myself. I cannot embrace my sexuality, I cannot express my gender, I cannot find my core without acknowledging that I am greater than the sum of my parts and that that piece of the universe inside is what gives me my humanity.
Without connections, I am doomed to psychopathy. My life may be rich materially, but it will be barren emotionally. I do not think that living a life of gender fluidity needs to be less authentic nor less based on spirituality and acceptance than any other. There are lots of reasons to not fully transition, not the least of which is that both ends of the gender dichotomy are lousy approximations for who someone is.
I identify as a woman. I usually but not always, identify as female. I am in transition. Is that bogus? I don't think so. I think it is the expression of who I authentically am. I wish I could have figured this out long ago. If I had, would I have moved decisively to the feminine? Maybe, I very much like it over here, but maybe I could have expressed myself outside of a bimodal space and found joy there.
At my time of life I do feel pressure to become authentic, become female, and do it now! I fear that I will lose my last, best chance at finding both my temporal and spiritual self if I am not decisive. If I were to die without living and being Julie, that would be the greatest and saddest piece of futility that I can think of. I cannot let this slip from my grasp, no matter the cost. That is my reality and I am comfortable with it. Someone else may and probably does, experience life quite differently but no less legitimately.
Last weekend I spent with friends, children and grandchildren camping on the Olympic Peninsula; surrounded by forest on a blue-green lake. Next weekend I will spend time making music, and sailing on the Columbia River. In September I will meet friends and lovers on the east coast. This is how my life, as I have grown, has evolved. This is the fruit of authenticity for me. What someone else's path is, is their path. Male, Female, a bit of each - whatever makes a person whole and gives them joy.
I listen to my stomach, when I am on the correct spiritual path it is calm - I am living authentically and accepting life on life's terms. Yesterday my house was broken into and camping gear and food stolen. I probably know who did it and will take steps to lesson the chance that it is repeated, but I find it hard to stay angry. I understand desperation, addiction, and fear, but today my stomach is content
Fair Winds and Calm Seas,
Julie
Never ever be sorry that you are facing the challenges that life throws at so many of us.
Do you realize just how much you are making many of us turn and face our own, just by writing about yours?
You're setting a very good example for many of us, whether it is big or small, we are now doing some of the same.
You help when you think your not. You are that strong of a person, caring and lifting us up.
The best we can do is to stand behind you and do our best to see you through when we can be of help.
You inspire even when you think you're not deserving of it, yet you are so much more than you might know right now.
Ativan
Knowing that I am not well - so take it with a grain of salt if you will -
First, I am not saying anyone at all in this forum is not authentic. I have never met more authentic, caring, brilliant people in my life.
Second - I have said and always will maintain that self deception can be fatal. It is that way in alcohol, and for me it is the same with transition. For me to fully transition is for me to not be authentic to who I am. For me to deny being a nonbinary transsexual is also not authentic. I feel that I am where I need to be, physically and presentationally.
I wish I had not offended anyone. But who wouldn't be offended, if they thought someone was questioning their choices or their validity or authenticity or motives. Especially on something as intense as this.
What I deny is the far reaching effects of my choices personally. Being on full hormones, with a now female body with an attachment. How it affected my wife and my feelings. Denying that I could possibly overcome this after 50 purges that say not a chance.
I can deny parts of my personality, lose the male that protects, and is out right now by the way, unusual for me in Susans to swing to the male gender roles and dynamics.
Can I deny that I am ego driven? Wish I could. I seek validation here on the forum based on a very deep need for approval. Approval for being trans that I don't have anywhere else, past or present. Just here.
So I found that I had value in here and it made me feel like I am more than I am. A trap of pride. It happens, I am human, and I am not used to this validation so I feed on it and the attention it gives me. Just being honest here with everyone, that's how it goes with me.
Spiritually, I still feel and believe that there is a negative force that wants to twist my perceptions of being trans, that pushes me to obsess, and to disregard the family while I obsess. All hell is still breaking loose around me and I don't have any idea what is going to happen to me now. I have absolutely no sense of security except for some members of the forum here that have sworn they wont let me fall. The only good news lately, other than my wife not leaving me last week, is that my hormone levels have finally gotten to full female levels. The ramp up has been bad on the memory. I am beginning to adjust now.
Can I deny that the hormones could be too much? Don't know. Gave that one totally to the endo, no control over that. Leg shots each week.
But these spiritual attacks have been uncanny. Really scary and I can't figure out what I did to have this stuff go down, snakes, job, loss of income, going broke, angry wife, 24/7 work required to hold it together, and depression and despair all hitting at once. The only thing I really know is who I am transgendered. I see my therapist Monday and that can help. Once again it was suggested to me by Christians that my problem with being trans is of a spiritual origin, and I just cannot buy into that. Nor that I can walk away from it, ever. I am a DES Son, my body and central nervous system was transitioned before I was born - I think we can assume those findings are correct even though it is not fully bought in on my the med community. But the Baptist position rejecting trans has been another blow I did not need to feel.
Anyway, I try to have my eyes open about how it all affects me and others, like my emotionally challenged daughter with the anxiety disorder, who can't even handle my nails. Its life on life's terms. I have to live with it.
So that is what I had in mind on this denial thread, and then I wound up in real trouble and am still fighting for sanity here.
Frankly I am scared shi---less about what is going to happen to me. I am even closer to booze or drugs than in years, though it is not an option. I have no denial that this would be suicide for me.
So, I'm still around. But I have to be careful or I will obsess about the forum and forget about anything else in life, it is that consuming for me. Not neg on the forum, this is an alcoholic tendency for obsession that I have to watch out for. Was the same for racing, for bras, you name it.
Blessings regardless, and I'll keep my nails long, even in this more aggressive mindset.
I wish I could just accept that all I am is someone with a female body and nervous system and endo system, and its that simple. That I could then just get on with it. But it doesn't work that way with me.
And the dysphoric pain levels are real. Manageable, better on heavy dosed estradiol, but still real anyway.
I am a mess right now. I wish you all well. Sorry to stir up the hornets nest, I don't know when to shut up.
Have to focus on work now, have to try to forget I am trans for a bit and just accept that I am me and that is that and nothing now can change it without serious consequences.
Blessings. And Love to all here still. Not something I can say easily when the male is presenting, more of my Satinjoy center, where all the love and nurturing seems to be.
Boy did I go into a dark place this time. Yuck.
When you come back to the light, we will be waiting. Whenever you need love and support in the dark, we will be waiting. No matter what, we will be waiting.
Love to you my friend,
Julie
Quote from: Satinjoy on August 06, 2014, 12:05:33 PM
Really scary and I can't figure out what I did to have this stuff go down, snakes, job, loss of income, going broke, angry wife, 24/7 work required to hold it together, and depression and despair all hitting at once.
You did not do anything SJ. It is simply called life. There is no one or entity keeping track of bad things and meting out punishment. If you have a flat tire, you have a flat tire. My life has been totally nuts with more broken dish washers, hot water tanks, tornado damage, etc. If I thought these were punishments for something I would not be stable either. No one in vehicle wrecks I ran did anything. No one who lost a house to a fire did anything. These things just happen. You are not under a microscope sweetie. You have to get this out of your mind and realize ALL of us go through this stuff. I have lost a lot in my life and transition, but I am not at the helm of the S.S. Jessica. My creator is. :)
You know out of all this I found out I am a bit childish. How funny
The depression broke I am doing fine now
Great posts Jess. Really. Love the stuff especially concerning God. I don't believe in a punishing God at all, but I do think we have an adversary who wanted to be God and was cast down. I suspect he got into my head.
Love to all here - nails out, hair on, looking gorgeous right now
:)
Quote from: Satinjoy on August 07, 2014, 07:12:40 AM
The depression broke I am doing fine now
YAY!!! :eusa_clap: :eusa_dance: :icon_caffine: :icon_joy: :icon_dance: :icon_yes: :icon_woowoo:
the funny thing about breaking points, is that when you reach one, there are pretty much only two ways out. it's either giving up completely, or start fixing things. i'm really glad that you seem more intent on fixing things.
that addiction thing you said about the forum is true. i have a brother who turned to pc games because that's what was easily available to him when he needed something to obsess over enough to forget other worries. and another brother who switched from alcohol to games. most obsessions seem to be a way of avoiding to deal with another problem, unless it's something like mad love or some kind of mental disorder.
Quote from: Satinjoy on August 07, 2014, 07:12:40 AM
You know out of all this I found out I am a bit childish. How funny
The depression broke I am doing fine now
Great posts Jess. Really. Love the stuff especially concerning God. I don't believe in a punishing God at all, but I do think we have an adversary who wanted to be God and was cast down. I suspect he got into my head.
Love to all here - nails out, hair on, looking gorgeous right now
:)
:eusa_clap: :icon_bunch:
I'm glad that you found your way out of the darkness SJ :)
Now that I am stable...
I am amuzed by the classification of me as NB by non binaries, and Binary mtf by binaries. Universally. LOL.
I have no diagnosis except that I am a Satinjoy. And need hormones.
Here is the thing, and this is directed gently and lovingly to my binary friends.
--My shrink has diagnosed me as not a classic transsexual. Its on my hormone letter.
-- I am on a huge estrogen dose and am female mtf noop, in fact, physically.
--My shrink will not sign off on surgeries, it is AMA.
-- the consequence of going full time:
Loss of wife and one daughter.
Loss of acting career.
Not being true to my core, which does not feel socially female. It feels third gender.
and on and on but no matter.
Yes I live with a measure of dysphoric pain. No doubt. I have to choose the lesser of two pains.
So I live genderqueer.
Last night, my wife got curious, and lifted up the nightshirt. She took a long look, and a close one, at the leftovers of transition without surgery. As usual I was in something yummy underneath.
The point is, she was able to do it, smile, hug me and go back to bed.
Does anyone have any idea how priceless that is with a woman that is straight????
Love to all here. I risk a lot being so open, but it is to help other trans. For me, these sacrifices are worth it, and as long as I am trans on the inside out I am ok. But the clothes fly off and the transition completes any time I have a chance. Its just the way it is.
Blessings
Quote from: Satinjoy on August 11, 2014, 10:35:20 AM
Last night, my wife got curious, and lifted up the nightshirt. She took a long look, and a close one, at the leftovers of transition without surgery. As usual I was in something yummy underneath.
The point is, she was able to do it, smile, hug me and go back to bed.
Does anyone have any idea how priceless that is with a woman that is straight????
Yup happens here all the time and much more. We sleep naked because there's nothing to hide or be ashamed of.