I'm thinking of quitting........
I had to get my car re-tested for an MOT this week. I wore a bright pink top, pale coloured crop jeans, sandals, handbag and I just had just got my blonde hair re-highlighted.
However, when I arrived at the garage one of the petrol fuel pipes had burst and the garage man temporarily fixed it for me but shockingly he said I could fix it myself if it goes again? I am not in the slightest bit familiar with cars and the last person to be able to work on cars or crawl underneath one. He then told me to wait in line for the MOT's and told the guy behind me that he should wait behind me and the mechanics words were 'you wait behind him' pointing to me. At no time did they ever think I was female.
I am fully aware that I don't pass and after 14 years of full time transition it is very hard for me to except. But obviously I wasn't going to make a point or rock the boat when I'm getting an MOT test done for my car. But this happens a lot and I don't pass anymore and there is no point in me trying to kid myself or pretending I pass. I used to pass a lot years before I started my transition which is strange.
I now don't know what my next move will be? Obviously I have never ever wanted to be male but I may have to grit my teeth and bear it. Maybe join a gym, work out and get a male body that is going to at least look good, then at least I have achieved something in my life. My legs are skinny and stick thin, I have no hip development and the fat only seems to deposit in the belly area. 14 years of constant Hormones and anti-androgens have done zit to change my fat distribution pattern.
I will never get a short hair cut, never conform to a male stereotype but I have to except that this transition hasn't worked out for me and I gave it my best shot for many years.
A similar situation did occur last year, also at a garage which was mentioned on another forum. But these are my recent experiences from this week. Instead of negativity, how about some positive comments from you?
I'm really sorry to hear how things have been for you Naturally Blonde. Whilst I may not understand what it's like for you to the full extent I have had things like this happen to me before though I am still pre-transition. I was actually called a boy and everything when I went to get my eyebrows done a few days ago and was told to get it done like a boy and that getting it different would make me look too girly... that's exactly what I was going for but I didn't speak up regarding it, I never really do. >.< I was having a really bad day so that just made it even worse and made me feel even more crap about myself, plus I had to look in the mirror and see my trachea bulging out my neck. T_T I just kept my eyes closed for most of it.
I'm not sure what to say, but I have no doubt this must be extremely painful and disappointing for you. I can only hope you are able to find happiness else where or are able to find the strength to continue down this path.
Quote from: Valleyrie on August 06, 2014, 07:06:42 AM
I'm really sorry to hear how things have been for you Naturally Blonde. Whilst I may not understand what it's like for you to the full extent I have had things like this happen to me before though I am still pre-transition.
I am not pre-transition I am 14 years down the line Valleyrie. If I was just starting out it would be a lot easier to except. But this situation has happened over and over.
I know, I meant I can't really understand how it must be for you since you've been on hormones for 14 years already and I am still yet to start. Sorry for any misunderstandings.
Quote from: Valleyrie on August 06, 2014, 07:15:02 AM
I know, I meant I can't really understand how it must be for you since you've been on hormones for 14 years already and I am still yet to start. Sorry for any misunderstandings.
I am of the opinion that hormones don't work and for the majority of TS woman this is a normal occurrence that they don't pass all the time. I've met a lot of TS women over the years (over here in the U.K) and I haven't seen anyone who strikes me as physically looking female.
Over in the USA you have shots (HRT injections) which are not legal over here but shots may be better than the tablets we get over here? I tried for ages to try and get some but could get them. I also haven't tried Spiro (anti-androgens) which I also can't get over here. We can only get Androcur and Zoladex (or Decapeptyl).
One thing to keep in mind. Regardless of what people say or do in certain situations, you have to deal with you 24/7. How do YOU feel happiest? Whatever your path, you ALWAYS have to live with you. Others who are negative, you don't live with are only annoyances. Just be true to yourself whether it's staying on this path or another. Just don't let others choose for you, after all it is YOUR life...not theirs.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 06, 2014, 07:22:42 AM
I am of the opinion that hormones don't work and for the majority of TS woman this is a normal occurrence that they don't pass all the time. I've met a lot of TS women over the years (over here in the U.K) and I haven't seen anyone who strikes me as physically looking female.
Over in the USA you have shots (HRT injections) which are not legal over here but shots may be better than the tablets we get over here? I tried for ages to try and get some but could get them. I also haven't tried Spiro (anti-androgens) which I also can't get over here. We can only get Androcur and Zoladex (or Decapeptyl).
That's completely contrary to my experiences... I was getting spiro prescribed at my GP's since Jul 13 till June 14, then after my first appointment at the gender clinic my gender therapist changed my HRT to anti-androgen injections (prostap) and added some more E in a gel form.
Prostap is very strong anti-androgen, and one of its benefits is the fact that it's not as damaging to your liver as spiro or androcur (or at least that's what my gender therapist said)
I can feel a difference already!
Ask your GP for help, they may help you with hair removal, HRT, voice training etc.
good luck!
Quote from: MelanieH74 on August 06, 2014, 07:23:34 AM
One thing to keep in mind. Regardless of what people say or do in certain situations, you have to deal with you 24/7. How do YOU feel happiest? Whatever your path, you ALWAYS have to live with you. Others who are negative, you don't live with are only annoyances. Just be true to yourself whether it's staying on this path or another. Just don't let others choose for you, after all it is YOUR life...not theirs.
I understand what you are saying but this is more related to a problem with fat distribution and the inability to facilitate the physical attributes of a female. People are not wrong if they see you as male, they only see what they see and most people are not politically correct or gender friendly. These are not annoyances, this is the reality of everyday life.
Quote from: crowcrow223 on August 06, 2014, 07:38:03 AM
Prostap is very strong anti-androgen, and one of its benefits is the fact that it's not as damaging to your liver as spiro or androcur (or at least that's what my gender therapist said)
I can feel a difference already!
Ask your GP for help, they may help you with hair removal, HRT, voice training etc.
good luck!
Hair removal? I started having laser on my face nearly 20 years ago and I have never had body hair.
I have never needed voice therapy. My voice is 100% female sounding, so that isn't the issue for me. As mentioned in my original post I am 14 years full time!
Prostap is another (LHRH) analogue like Zoladex and Decapepty.
Silly question but have you tried to refresh/change your style of attire? I ask because I often straddle gender lines on purpose (though I have fully transitioned) and I find that if someone with some masculine attributes (in my case my height is the worst one) wears very feminine things, the masculine attributes pop out more. I get ma'amed most consistently wearing female clothes but those that are very andro, jeans, plain shoes, hair tied back, stud earrings instead of big danglies, light makeup instead of heavy, etc.... just a thought. Of course after 14 years, I do assume you've tried various approaches, but maybe worth considering. Also, have you stayed in your town where you used to be known as a male? If you have financial resources or can save a bit, have you considered FFS or fat transplants to get some curves? Lots of women wear bodyshapers, padded bras, no shame in that if you do too... Can you move to a more accepting community or state? Just throwing things out there... sorry that you're hurting in any case.
Quote from: GendrKweer on August 06, 2014, 07:56:40 AM
Silly question but have you tried to refresh/change your style of attire? I ask because I often straddle gender lines on purpose (though I have fully transitioned) and I find that if someone with some masculine attributes (in my case my height is the worst one) wears very feminine things, the masculine attributes pop out more.
Yes, that's correct. I am aware only too well.
Quote from: GendrKweer on August 06, 2014, 07:56:40 AM
I get ma'amed most consistently wearing female clothes but those that are very andro, jeans, plain shoes, hair tied back, stud earrings instead of big danglies, light makeup instead of heavy, etc.... just a thought. Of course after 14 years, I do assume you've tried various approaches, but maybe worth considering. Also, have you stayed in your town where you used to be known as a male? If you have financial resources or can save a bit, have you considered FFS or fat transplants to get some curves? Lots of women wear bodyshapers, padded bras, no shame in that if you do too... Can you move to a more accepting community or state? Just throwing things out there... sorry that you're hurting in any case.
Yes, this is a factor. People who know you in your home town will react in that way but these situations I've mention are not always in situations where people knew me before. Besides it was a long time ago I started my transition and places change, people move on.
I wouldn't want to wear body shapers in the sweltering heat of summer, so no I don't wear that stuff in the summer. I have also been as far as pre-meds with FFS and have tried to find out about fat transplants which there isn't a lot of information about. I am a bit limited financially, so my options are limited.
It does highlight from what your saying that meds are not the solution when going through transition. It appears that surgical intervention is the only way forward for a serious transition.
Quote from: Samantha007 on August 06, 2014, 08:01:16 AM
Sorry to hear what you're going through, naturally blonde.
Unfortunately, there is only so much hormones can do to feminise your face and body. They, among other things, can re-arrange fat distribution, smooth your skin and change the texture & density of your hair. They can also make you develop some breast tissue. In my opinion, transwomen who pass thanks to hormones are those who already had a feminine face prior to transition. Hormones gave them that extra little help. Unfortunately, if your bone structure is too masculine, hormones can't create a miracle.
I disagree totally. Prior to hormones I had a feminine round face. Now on hormones my face is thin, my cheek bones stick out and my face looks very skeletal. As for my hair hormones have made it thin and fine. Prior to Hormones my hair was very thick and had more body. I haven't noticed fat re-distribution, only fat acumilating on my belly.
Quote from: Samantha007 on August 06, 2014, 08:01:16 AM
Before you go ahead and decide to de-transition, have you ever thought about having some ffs? I know it's expensive, but that might give you what you're looking for. i.e. passing! Reading your post, it doesn't sound to me like you are unhappy with being a woman. The issue you seem to be having is your "failure to pass" and be treated as a woman by others. If you detransition, and start living as a man you won't be addressing the core issue hun. You might even make it worse. Running away from reality i.e. pretending to be something you are not may not is not the solution, in my opinion.
Always remember, you can't change your gender, but you can certainly change your physical appearance to make it much your gender. You are a woman no matter what. Let's keep it real and start looking for remedies elsewhere hun.
hugs,
Samantha x
My body is a lot worse than my face. It looks like a typical male type fat distribution pattern with skinny legs, skinny butt and pot belly. The hormones have infused the fat into the belly area and have ignored other areas which are gender indicators like the legs and butt.
How often do you have your blood checkups done?
NHS offers help with surgical procedures, such as FFS, breast augmentation and even body sculpting. Have You read the 2013/2014 guidelines?
x
Have you considered gaining some weight or finding some money for breast augmenation and ffs?
I know from my experience, when my breasts grew it made a huge difference in how easy it was to pass.
Well, I am on hrt for very nearly six months, so too soon to see any significant changes other than my breast growth. I was on hrt a few years ago but quit due to circumstances I had no control over. Anyway, I'm 60 and should have transitioned when I was a young teenager or at least in my early twenties. Just didn't really know what was wrong with me and the support structure was no where near what it is today. Quitting is probably not a good idea, in my opinion. I deeply regret not transitioning in the mid 90's after my therapy. I cannot pass as I am and I am not full time. I think if you quit, especially after so many years, you will regret it and be more miserable. I look forward to being full time at some point in my life and I don't expect to pass well, but at least I will finally be living my life, and that is really more important. Not all of us can be the pretty woman we'd like to be, but I'd really rather be an unattractive woman than a man anytime. Hugs.
Kathy
*hugs* That must be really tough. It does sound from what you say that you don't want to live as a man, so detransition probably won't make you feel any better... if misgendering is bad now, *asking* people to misgender you will be worse. :(
This is the sad part of HRT - it can work magic for some people, but just as there are cis women with no breasts/curves/masculine faces, some of us are going to be less lucky than others. The one thing you do have going for you is your perfect voice, and possibly if you correct people (in a slightly affronted, slightly shocked tone) the way a cis woman would, you can embarrass some of them. After all, there ARE cis women who get misgendered, and so long as your documentation is in order there's no way for some random jackass to know you're not among them.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 06, 2014, 12:34:57 PM
This is the sad part of HRT - it can work magic for some people, but just as there are cis women with no breasts/curves/masculine faces, some of us are going to be less lucky than others. The one thing you do have going for you is your perfect voice, and possibly if you correct people (in a slightly affronted, slightly shocked tone) the way a cis woman would, you can embarrass some of them. After all, there ARE cis women who get misgendered, and so long as your documentation is in order there's no way for some random jackass to know you're not among them.
I haven't seen much evidence of HRT working on other transsexual women? I only know of one who passes with flying colours. My voice does overrides situations because it sounds female and has deterred people on a number of occasions who might of otherwise mis-gendered me.
I'm not sure how documentation relates to this thread?
Transition is for me both internal and external. I have been luckier than I deserve. HRT, polish and makeup have made me at least ambiguous physically. Two years on, people who know me accept me. People who don't know me wonder and guess. Sometimes him, sometimes her - but it is me, that's for darn sure ;). What living full time has done is confirm the Julie in my self view.
I have had to do endless sit ups, run endless miles to help estrogen shape me. The results are what they are. I will never look as curvy as "Jessica Rabbit" more like "Twiggy" in 1965. (shows how old I am) I have done what I can, chemistry has done what it can. The remarkable thing is that when I look in the mirror, I see Julie, and she is a woman, and she is okay.
What anyone else thinks is nothing I can control, nor something I have time to waste over. Shoot I got sired Saturday in a Safeway grocery store wearing a tight tee-shirt, my thought was, poor guy needs to have his glasses checked. I am wearing a pink top, bright red nails and if I do say so myself a cute gal with a smile. If someone misses that, I guess it sucks to be them. So is there a point to this drivel? Only this:
We are all an inside job, if you feel pretty, you are, if you feel feminine, you are. I transitioned because the person I saw, and the way that I felt didn't fit with who I was. HRT, exercise, diet, but mostly friends changed that. The incongruity between who I am and how I feel is gone. The girl I see is the woman I want to be. What anyone else chooses to recognize is just not that important any more. I try to hang out with other T-girls when I can. It pretty much guarantees that we will be read, and pretty much guarantees that it won't matter.
Fair Winds,
Julie
I'm one of those people who hasn't become dillusional on hormones.
LOL, honey, neither am I. You don't have to be delusional to see the beauty and femininity that was lacking before. You have to be accepting of reality and authentic in your life. I'm both. I'm also functional and happy. I hope for nothing less for you.
Julie
Quote from: JulieBlair on August 06, 2014, 01:46:27 PM
LOL, honey, neither am I. You don't have to be delusional to see the beauty and femininity that was lacking before. You have to be accepting of reality and authentic in your life. I'm both. I'm also functional and happy. I hope for nothing less for you.
Julie
I'd like to reply to your posts but I don't want to be rude.
Sorry, the documentation was an aside because - obviously - if a trans woman corrects someone and her ID (your license, in this case) says "male," that person is going to know she's trans at the very least. But if you correct people in a female voice with a female license, there's no way for them to know you're NOT a cis woman who happened to look masculine at that moment. If the voice works, work the voice. ;)
I've known quite a lot of trans women who pass unquestioned, but that's probably not gonna help you in this thread so I'll drop it. I just wanted to mention that yes, HRT does work for some people.
Quote from: Jenna Marie on August 06, 2014, 01:53:52 PM
Sorry, the documentation was an aside because - obviously - if a trans woman corrects someone and her ID (your license, in this case) says "male," that person is going to know she's trans at the very least. But if you correct people in a female voice with a female license, there's no way for them to know you're NOT a cis woman who happened to look masculine at that moment. If the voice works, work the voice. ;)
I've known quite a lot of trans women who pass unquestioned, but that's probably not gonna help you in this thread so I'll drop it. I just wanted to mention that yes, HRT does work for some people.
I haven't had any male documentation for well over a decade but never had to ever produce ID for anything. Yes, my voice is good but I wish my body matched my voice.
No worries. Thanks for the picture. You are beautiful, feminine, and most assuredly a girl. I'm sorry If you take offence from my posts, but you needn't worry about being rude. I never intend to belittle or to imply that someone's angst isn't real. It is, sorry to be light hearted today.
Cheers,
Julie
Never mind; the documentation thing was a tangent and it's not worth confusing you any more. (You're lucky you don't have to produce ID, though; seems to happen to me a lot.)
Basically, there are a small set of features that people will read as "female unless there's overriding/overwhelming evidence" - feminine voice, large breasts, very small/slight body - and if you are gifted with even one of these, it's good to play it up as hard as you can. Most cis people are too ignorant to realize that a trans woman CAN have these features, so they assume someone with them is a cis woman.
I do hope that you aren't saying that those of us who believe HRT worked are delusional...
If that is your picture on the profile i would say the problem is just someone knows or knew about you being GD.
They are just small minded people and you should not let them overshadow the woman you are.
Move forward and if possible stop using the service of the garage if they treat there customers that way.
Hugs
Quote from: mrs izzy on August 06, 2014, 02:04:56 PM
If that is your picture on the profile i would say the problem is just someone knows or knew about you being GD.
They are just small minded people and you should not let them overshadow the woman you are.
Move forward and if possible stop using the service of the garage if they treat there customers that way.
Hugs
Yes it's my picture in my profile. I like that garage and will continue to use them regardless of how they misgender me. Previously I would get very upset and go home and cry my eyes out. Now I see the clear reality of my poor transition.
Wish to add one more thing.
Great people talk about ideas;
ordinary people talk about things;
small minded people talk about other people.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 06, 2014, 02:08:27 PM
Yes it's my picture in my profile. I like that garage and will continue to use them regardless of how they misgender me. Previously I would get very upset and go home and cry my eyes out. Now I see the clear reality of my poor transition.
Ok sorry for the suggestion.
I understand now.
Quote from: JulieBlair on August 06, 2014, 02:01:16 PM
No worries. Thanks for the picture. You are beautiful, feminine, and most assuredly a girl. I'm sorry If you take offence from my posts, but you needn't worry about being rude. I never intend to belittle or to imply that someone's angst isn't real. It is, sorry to be light hearted today.
Cheers,
Julie
Hi Julie, I think you have misunderstood me. I didn't take offence by your posts at all but it appears you are just starting out on your journey. I have been full time for many years and have a lot of experience.
I know I'm not done yet and it's heartbreaking when I think I look ok but clearly I'm not doing enough and my body isn't cutting it. Strangely, it's guys that read me not women.
With 14 years behind you, I dont see you how you would want to quit that. You may want to live a more masculine women life style. Withdrawing from hormones would probably make you feel more depressed than what you are now.
Quote from: izzy on August 06, 2014, 02:37:37 PM
With 14 years behind you, I dont see you how you would want to quit that. You may want to live a more masculine women life style. Withdrawing from hormones would probably make you feel more depressed than what you are now.
No I don't want to live a masculine woman's lifestyle. I have always been feminine and I am not about to get my hair cut off or anything horrible like that. Hormones are having unwanted effects on me giving me a large excess of belly fat and making my face thinner. They seem to have reverse effects to what I was expecting. I have another TS friend who is experiencing similar problems who at least understands the problems I am having.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 06, 2014, 02:08:27 PM
I like that garage and will continue to use them regardless of how they misgender me. Previously I would get very upset and go home and cry my eyes out. Now I see the clear reality of my poor transition.
Nope, there's nothing wrong with your transition, the mechanic is a pillock. Find the manager/owner of the garage and let them know you are getting grief. If they are unsympathetic then introduce them to the 2010 Equality Act. If it ever happens again after that make your complaint to Citizens Advice and let them guide you on where to go for a payout.
I had something similar happen (albeit far earlier in to transition than you are) about a year ago and complained to the company's head office. The next time I was in the shop I received an apology and I haven't been misgendered since. No-one but no-one has the right to make you feel bad about being yourself and anyone who tries to needs to be called to account.
Rosie
Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on August 06, 2014, 03:11:23 PM
Nope, there's nothing wrong with your transition, the mechanic is a pillock. Find the manager/owner of the garage and let them know you are getting grief. If they are unsympathetic then introduce them to the 2010 Equality Act. If it ever happens again after that make your complaint to Citizens Advice and let them guide you on where to go for a payout.
I had something similar happen (albeit far earlier in to transition than you are) about a year ago and complained to the company's head office. The next time I was in the shop I received an apology and I haven't been misgendered since. No-one but no-one has the right to make you feel bad about being yourself and anyone who tries to needs to be called to account.
Rosie
The mechanic is also the manager/owner and it's not his fault that he sees what he sees, I don't think it's deliberate. I can't complain about other people when it is me that's at fault. The guy does a really good job and they are best garage for that type of work. I've heard about people suing this and that company for gender mis-interpretation but if we're honest it's us that's at fault. A cis female isn't going to be mis-gendered or at least I've never seen it happen. So it really is down to the visual interpretation of what someone else sees regardless of clothing or presentation.
When you started this thread, there was no picture of you, but now there is and I have to say based on your face alone of course I have no idea why anyone would misgender you. I'm 37 and have...um shall we say lived a diverse and interesting life so far, meaning I've been lucky enough to interact with pretty much everyone on whatever spectrum you'd like to present. And based on your face, it would be tough for me to clock you. Your hair is nice as well, and I don't think you face is skeletal at all. If your voice is as good as you say, there can only be malice behind anyone saying "him", and if it were me, I'd take my business elsewhere. After all, if they have such little respect for me, why would I think they have any more respect for my bankbook or vehicle? Incidentally, when I have more femme accessories (purse, nailpolish, etc) and someone sirs me, often as not I smile and say something like "Purse? Nailpolish? You really think I wanna be sirred?" I find that confidently humiliating someone who deserves it is a wonderful thing...because anyone who would really overlook clearly female clothes and accessories no matter how they believed you were underneath deserves it.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 06, 2014, 03:33:20 PM
The mechanic is also the manager/owner and it's not his fault that he sees what he sees, I don't think it's deliberate. I can't complain about other people when it is me that's at fault. The guy does a really good job and they are best garage for that type of work. I've heard about people suing this and that company for gender mis-interpretation but if we're honest it's us that's at fault. A cis female isn't going to be mis-gendered or at least I've never seen it happen. So it really is down to the visual interpretation of what someone else sees regardless of clothing or presentation.
Nope. The fault is with the person who is mis-gendering. If you have told them and they haven't stopped mis-gendering you then they don't deserve to have a business and deserve to be sued out of business. My garage reminded me that I hadn't told them what my new name was and the old one certainly didn't seem right. The owner of your local garage is an absolute arse and has absolutely no excuse for their behaviour.
Rosie
This sort of thing really does suck. Do you feel that it would be of any help to get some sort of cold evaluation from a third party of what you might alter in concrete terms, and then go down the list as you can? It sounds as if you feel it's entirely that too many masculine markers remain and are still working in concert to undermine you. You might be able to lessen some with effort. For example, you have written of how weigh accumulates, and while one can't control distribution, one can reduce overall weight if that helps. Exercise can help with muscle shaping (and butt boosting), and I found that helped me. You mention pre-med FFS, does that mean you had it and it was not enough, or were there things you decided not to do?
I'm also post transition about two years, I've had FFS, and I still think about getting this or that on my face redone. I haven't been misgendered by strangers in that time (habits of family and friends are another matter), but I also live in a very PC-aware area. What people think and say are different, and I am sure I get zapped time to time. But I am comfortable day to day and able to pretty much forget old me.
I'd also ask: what would be the level of experience to make you comfortable again, and what do you feel it would take to get there?
Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on August 06, 2014, 03:56:54 PM
Nope. The fault is with the person who is mis-gendering. If you have told them and they haven't stopped mis-gendering you then they don't deserve to have a business and deserve to be sued out of business. My garage reminded me that I hadn't told them what my new name was and the old one certainly didn't seem right. The owner of your local garage is an absolute arse and has absolutely no excuse for their behaviour.
Rosie
I'm not getting this Rosie what do I have to tell them? if you've never seen a person before why would you have to go through your life story with them? you should be taken on face value, if not it's your fault no theirs.
I can just see all these transsexuals going up to people and saying 'sorry I look like a man but I'm not really a man, I'm a transition so can you call me madam please', 'thank you very much'. That would be so stupid and gives you zero credibility.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 06, 2014, 04:03:28 PM
sorry I look like a man but I'm not really a man, I'm a transition so can you call me madam please', 'thank you very much'. That would be so stupid and gives you zero credibility.
It would which is one of the reasons I wouldn't dream of apologising or using that many words. If someone calls me 'sir' (like the butcher did last month) I correct them by saying "it's madam". Why on Earth would I be grovelling acceptance from someone who is relying on my custom?
I am really sorry that they got to you lovely but they have the problem, not you.
Rosie
Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on August 06, 2014, 04:24:15 PM
It would which is one of the reasons I wouldn't dream of apologising or using that many words. If someone calls me 'sir' (like the butcher did last month) I correct them by saying "it's madam". Why on Earth would I be grovelling acceptance from someone who is relying on my custom?
I am really sorry that they got to you lovely but they have the problem, not you.
I think her point is that these people don't misgender her out of malice, but because they react to what they see, and that this is understandably very discouraging. It's demoralising after 14 years to deal with it day to day. Correcting them doesn't change that it happens, it just means those you correct won't use the wrong pronoun with you. Unaddressed, it will happen again and the cycle continues. It drags one down.
I think we all wonder if we are deluding ourselves if we seem to pass day to day, often because we still see enough of our old selves in the mirror to sow doubt. Every "sir" from any source shakes our confidence. It also slaps us with the past and who we are not nor how we wish to be seen.
I would only ask, is there a way to first figure out what it is that still lingers to undermine your presentation, and whether there are steps you can take to fix them?
Quote from: Sabine on August 06, 2014, 04:40:48 PM
I think her point is that these people don't misgender her out of malice, but because they react to what they see, and that this is understandably very discouraging. It's demoralising after 14 years to deal with it day to day. Correcting them doesn't change that it happens, it just means those you correct won't use the wrong pronoun with you. Unaddressed, it will happen again and the cycle continues. It drags one down.
I think we all wonder if we are deluding ourselves if we seem to pass day to day, often because we still see enough of our old selves in the mirror to sow doubt. Every "sir" from any source shakes our confidence. It also slaps us with the past and who we are not nor how we wish to be seen.
I would only ask, is there a way to first figure out what it is that still lingers to undermine your presentation, and whether there are steps you can take to fix them?
Your spot on Sabine with your comments and understand this thread well. I've never been sir'd yet but it's the way I was referred to as him in conversation at the garage or the way they look at you, you know it's not working. Even in shops you see people being called madam or sir but with me it's neither, I'm a non entity, a non gender.
What about voice? No matter how you look if you sound masculine then people read you as masculine. Based on your picture it is impossible to misgender you so therefore it must be something we cannot see.
Judging from your photo you look very feminized. :angel: Perhaps you could wear some more color on your face to help you pass even more? :-*
Quote from: aaggat on August 06, 2014, 06:13:30 PM
What about voice? No matter how you look if you sound masculine then people read you as masculine. Based on your picture it is impossible to misgender you so therefore it must be something we cannot see.
Please read the rest of thread before you comment. I'll say it again to save you scrolling up. My voice sounds female, my voice didn't break, I have never had a guys voice. so this isn't related to voice.
Quote from: Kyra553 on August 06, 2014, 06:54:30 PM
Judging from your photo you look very feminized. :angel: Perhaps you could wear some more color on your face to help you pass even more? :-*
Thanks for your comment. I'm not wearing any make up in my pic. I haven't noticed any feminization as I haven't changed much over the years. I wish I did have some feminization. I think your face is lovely Kyra, you have a nice round face which always looks feminine. But I'm probably a lot older than you are?
At the risk of jumping into a thread with a post I'll regret, here's my few cents:
I'm 100% with you, Naturally Blonde, on the idea that trans girls are often not as passable as they think they are. It's not hard to pick us out if one looks carefully enough. If we enter the transition process expecting to come out the other side as the functional equivalent of cis girls, many of us are in for a nasty surprise. And the world is full of morons who feel it's their right to insult us because of who we are.
How do we deal with it? We adjust our bodies as best we can, but we also need to adjust our attitudes and expectations. We deal with our shortcomings by fixing what can be fixed and learning to live with what can't. We surround ourselves with friends and family who accept us for who we are, and we learn to ignore those members of society who are stupid/rude/insensitive and who call us out when they see us.
In other words, we learn to love ourselves as successful trans girls rather than failed cis girls. Life's too short to hate yourself for not being a perfectly passable woman, but it's plenty long enough to be a pretty, interesting, loveable and happy trans girl.
Look, it sounds like you've had a ->-bleeped-<-ty day. The guy in the garage sounds like a dick, and for the life of me I can't fathom why you're not taking your car elsewhere for service - that's your business though.
After working at it for fourteen years, you've tried everything. Hormones, the voice, appearance, mannerisms, the whole lot. There's probably nothing anyone here can suggest that will make you more female in terms of your external characteristics. And if you've gotten stuck at a point, physically, where you're not 100% passable, welcome to the club!
All of this leads me to believe that the problem isn't what you look like, but your attitude. I truly don't mean that in an insulting way. From your posts in this thread, you sound like you're making the mistake of trying to reach a standard that you'll never reach, not in a million years. Few of us will. So instead of becoming a grumpy, bitter, disappointed person who quits because she'll never be perfect, figure out a way to be happy with the girl you've ended up as. Therapy? Anti-depressants? A bottle of vodka for a cocktail at the end of each day? New friends? Whatever it takes to stop beating yourself up over you perceived lack of success, do it.
Yeah, life sucks that we weren't born girls. We can either have a lifelong hissy fit about how unfair it all is and how we want to quit, or we can do our best with what we have available, knowing that we'll never be perfect, and live life as happily as we can.
Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I'll throw it out there anyway. ;)
You know I think like this at times also. I wonder is it me that I'm fooling!! Even though I was being misgendered 1 1/2 years before even thinking of going FT, and being intimate with a few men that had no idea....and then all the people that knew me in the past but have no clue that I am anything other than a woman.....I still feel at times is everyone just being too nice.
Its really not too difficult for a trans to spot another trans....we know what were looking for. But the biggest thing is if you know that someone is trans, it then narrows your vision....your now looking for things that look manly. I am one that does that quite often when I see another person I feel is trans.....its not something I do intentionally, its just nature.
Now in saying that, I have a story to tell you. First a little background. Ten years ago a good 4 years before I started my transition my wife (ex now) worked with a trans girl, it was quite a shock to me!! I didn't say or think too much of it, even though my wife did know I was cross dressing at the time. Its not that I intentionally didn't make a fuss,...I just didn't care much. I didn't rush down to see her or anything like that. I was amazed that even though my wife did not like working with her, it had nothing to do with her being trans and not one time did she call her he....not even in anger. Well one day I happened to be at her work, I seen the trans girl...I knew right away it was her, even though my wife didn't describe her much. Its not that she looked manly, its just she looked a little out of place. Yes she did have bigger shoulders and some tattoos, that also made her look a little manly.
Well fast forward 10 years. I'm driving home from work and everyday I see this lady at a tent on the corner selling corn and other produce. I must of seen her 10-15 times, I once commented to myself that.....geez, she's always wearing a dress, no matter what the weather. Well one day I stopped for corn, I spoke with her a bit and ended up buying some corn. It was only in the last 2 minutes that I noticed she was the trans girl that worked with my wife!! All that time I never though anything different....no, she is not the most attractive, nor is she unattractive, her voice wasn't very feminine, nor was it manly, she did wear too much lip stick....but nothing I have not seen before....and she still had her tattoos and her arms and shoulders were quite big. But with all of my special trans radar and noticing a couple of those features that weren't the most feminine, I still did not know until I seen the tattoo and then remembered her face. This is coming from someone that may be a bit more discriminating than many others on here.
I just find it strange that after 14 years people would be misgendering you! I have not been misgendered once since starting my transition.....early on I was shocked....and even now at times I still wonder.....but then I look at myself and think....do I really look like a man, and even when my voice is bad in the morning its still not a mans voice!
I'm also from an area that is not very familiar with the tg community or accepting. This could go both ways, in some places you may be more accepted but also may be more easily recognized. Here I believe I would easily be recognized and definitely not accepted by all, though the few people who do know seem to be very accepting, but I am sure they don't quite see me as the woman most other people do....mostly because they now know, not necessarily because their not accepting.
Quote from: Just Shelly on August 06, 2014, 10:31:33 PM
I just find it strange that after 14 years people would be misgendering you! I have not been misgendered once since starting my transition.....early on I was shocked....and even now at times I still wonder.....but then I look at myself and think....do I really look like a man, and even when my voice is bad in the morning its still not a man's voice!
It is difficult after 14 years and earlier on in my transition and even before I ever started my transition I was usually perceived as female. So, yes I've got worse in the last year or so. Why? I'm not completely sure?
Quote from: Brenda E on August 06, 2014, 09:01:15 PM
After working at it for fourteen years, you've tried everything. Hormones, the voice, appearance, mannerisms, the whole lot.
I have never had to work on my voice and it's probably my best feature. The problems are more physical, lower body, upper body ratio. Not my face, not my voice. Over the years the hormones have targeted my belly area leaving the legs and butt skinny. This gives a male type fat distribution appearance, especially in the summer when you can't cover up as much. I need to quit hormones for a while in order to get rid of the wrong fat distribution that's happening from them. Also I need to work out and try and erase the damage the hormones have done. It's crazy when you gut is a lot bigger than your boobs and your legs are like sticks and the rest of your body is thin.
Quote from: Brenda E on August 06, 2014, 09:01:15 PM
Look, it sounds like you've had a ->-bleeped-<-ty day. The guy in the garage sounds like a dick, and for the life of me I can't fathom why you're not taking your car elsewhere for service - that's your business though.
No, he's not a dick, he only sees what he sees, it could be a genuine mistake. Some guys do have feminine long hair and carry little bags these days, especially musicians, artists etc. I've seen very feminine looking guys attending rock concerts that look more feminine than I do. I don't want to take my car elsewhere where the same thing will probably happen again. I'm at fault not anyone else and unlike many Transsexual women I can understand how we are seen from the other side side of the fence. Some transsexual women are happy to complain and bury their head in the sand, then the situation arises again, they complain again and so on.
If you ask me, I think it is a little crazy to want to completely de-transition just because you can't completely pass. You picture looks extremely feminine, and your body issues may actually be something you could do something about if you still wanted to. You could probably dramatically improve the fat distribution problem by looking into cosmetic fat transfer. A masculine rib cage can also be reduced by corset training, if you're willing to put the time and effort into it. But it does kind of sound like you have already made up your mind, so I guess that's your decision. I mean, if you're 14 years into things and there is still a part of you that wants to go back to being male, I don't think it's wrong for you to want to do it. But it does surprise me that it would have taken you a full 14 years to realize that was the case. Are you sure there isn't something else going on here?
Quote from: Miyuki on August 07, 2014, 04:39:35 AM
If you ask me, I think it is a little crazy to want to completely de-transition just because you can't completely pass. You picture looks extremely feminine, and your body issues may actually be something you could do something about if you still wanted to. You could probably dramatically improve the fat distribution problem by looking into cosmetic fat transfer. A masculine rib cage can also be reduced by corset training, if you're willing to put the time and effort into it. But it does kind of sound like you have already made up your mind, so I guess that's your decision. I mean, if you're 14 years into things and there is still a part of you that wants to go back to being male, I don't think it's wrong for you to want to do it. But it does surprise me that it would have taken you a full 14 years to realize that was the case. Are you sure there isn't something else going on here?
You could go through my photo's from the last 25 years and through the years I look pretty much the same as I do now. So my suggestion of de-transition wouldn't be what you think. I have never seen my self as male so I wouldn't be going back to something that I wasn't in the first place. I've never been married to a woman, I've never been to a barbers. That isn't and never has been me. By quitting I meant quitting hormones and trying to work out to get a better shaped body. The hormones are giving me a male type body fat which I detest.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 04:59:50 AM
You could go through my photo's from the last 25 years and through the years I look pretty much the same as I do now. So my suggestion of de-transition wouldn't be what you think. I have never seen my self as male so I wouldn't be going back to something that I wasn't in the first place. I've never been married to a woman, I've never been to a barbers. That isn't and never has been me. By quitting I meant quitting hormones and trying to work out to get a better shaped body. The hormones are giving me a male type body fat which I detest.
Oh, I guess I misunderstood. In that case, my suggestion of doing fat transfer still applies. Going off HRT and working out is only going to make your upper body look bigger, unless you focused entirely on your legs. And it's not like it's impossible to burn fat on hormones. If you go on an intense cardio regimen, and limit your calorie intake, you should be able to get rid of the belly fat at least. But it would also probably make your breasts/butt/legs smaller too, which is why I think fat transfer is a better solution.
Quote from: Miyuki on August 07, 2014, 05:08:33 AM
Oh, I guess I misunderstood. In that case, my suggestion of doing fat transfer still applies. Going off HRT and working out is only going to make your upper body look bigger, unless you focused entirely on your legs. And it's not like it's impossible to burn fat on hormones. If you go on an intense cardio regimen, and limit your calorie intake, you should be able to get rid of the belly fat at least. But it would also probably make your breasts/butt/legs smaller too, which is why I think fat transfer is a better solution.
Nope! before hormones my upper body was a lot smaller. The ratio was more balanced pre-hormones with upper body and lower body being the same clothing size. Since hormones the upper body has got bigger and the ratio is worse. My upper body now is two sizes bigger than my lower body.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 05:13:36 AM
Nope! before hormones my upper body was a lot smaller. The ratio was more balanced pre-hormones with upper body and lower body being the same clothing size. Since hormones the upper body has got bigger.
Wah, really? I didn't think that was even possible. Are you sure your levels are okay, because that does not seem like something that should happen normally. Are you exercising your upper body a lot, or did it just happen on it's own?
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 04:21:20 AM
I'm at fault not anyone else and unlike many Transsexual women I can understand how we are seen from the other side side of the fence.
Many of us do just fine thank you. I know some who totally fail to pass but are happy in themselves and do not much care what others think. I know others who passed well enough but did not believe that and outed themselves without meaning to because they thought that "everyone must know already" and they did not. There are examples here on this forum of people who had similar experiences.
For myself, I am older than you and I have not been misgendered in years and the sport I am involved in calls for close proximity to both men and women many of whom I often do not know. I am never misgendered. I share female bunk spaces, locker rooms and toilets all without question.
All we can see of you here is a picture. We cannot hear your voice or see you move or how you stand or a hundred other little details that might give you away. Maybe you pass better than you think but you do not believe that you pass - people can pick up on a lack of confidence and it triggers them to examine more closely.
If you do not believe in yourself then you will never find a solution that will make you happy. Knowing yourself is the key.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 04:21:20 AM
Some transsexual women are happy to complain and bury their head in the sand, then the situation arises again, they complain again and so on.
Pot ... kettle...
This thread is little more than a series of complaints from you. Instead of complaining to the mechanic you complain about the mechanic elsewhere (here) or about the solutions other posters have offered.
Gender Dysphoria happens inside the head and the cure for it has to happen in there as well. Physical transition means nothing without self-acceptance. Maybe your solution lies not in the outwardly visible but rather internally.
Quote from: aaggat on August 07, 2014, 05:21:41 AM
All we can see of you here is a picture. We cannot hear your voice or see you move or how you stand or a hundred other little details that might give you away. Maybe you pass better than you think but you do not believe that you pass - people can pick up on a lack of confidence and it triggers them to examine more closely.
Gender Dysphoria happens inside the head and the cure for it has to happen in there as well. Physical transition means nothing without self-acceptance. Maybe your solution lies not in the outwardly visible but rather internally.
I'll give you my number you can hear my voice for yourself. I always seem to pass on the phone hon. Gender Dysphoria happens inside the head? yes it does and you try to align the physical appearance to the brain. Nope! the problem is definitely physical.
Quote from: aaggat on August 07, 2014, 05:21:41 AM
For myself, I am older than you and I have not been misgendered in years and the sport I am involved in calls for close proximity to both men and women many of whom I often do not know. I am never misgendered. I share female bunk spaces, locker rooms and toilets all without question.
Are you sure you are older than me? I'm glad for you that you don't get misgendered, it must be a very nice feeling. Most of the time I pass but I still get the odd episode where I don't. Strangely I always pass in the ladies loo. So with me it's a fine line.
Quote from: Miyuki on August 07, 2014, 05:18:12 AM
Wah, really? I didn't think that was even possible. Are you sure your levels are okay, because that does not seem like something that should happen normally. Are you exercising your upper body a lot, or did it just happen on it's own?
I don't know why it's happening? but it pisses me off. I used to be (U.K size) 14 upper body and size 14 lower body pre-hormones, a good balanced ratio. Since being on hormones the lower body has dropped to size 12 and upper body increased to size 16 to 18.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 05:22:17 AM
I don't know why it's happening? but it pisses me off. I used to be (U.K size) 14 upper body and size 14 lower body pre-hormones, a good balanced ratio. Since being on hormones the lower body has dropped to size 12 and upper body increased to size 16 to 18.
Is it just muscle, or do you think there have been actual bone structure changes? Testosterone can continue to masculenize your bone structure even after puberty, so if your levels weren't under control, that could explain it. I'm really skeptical that estrogen could actually increase upper body mass, but hormones do seem to affect everyone differently, so I guess it's possible. In theory at least. But I doubt going off hormones would make things better at this point, if the changes were the result of bone structure development.
Quote from: Miyuki on August 07, 2014, 05:30:21 AM
Is it just muscle, or do you think there have been actual bone structure changes? Testosterone can continue to masculenize your bone structure even after puberty, so if your levels weren't under control, that could explain it. I'm really skeptical that estrogen could actually increase upper body mass, but hormones do seem to affect everyone differently, so I guess it's possible. In theory at least. But I doubt going off hormones would make things better at this point, if the changes were the result of bone structure development.
No, pre-hormones I had very low testosterone levels and even now they are around the 0.4 mark. As male I had no sperm count. My psychiatrist says they are always very low, even for a female. I don't think any bone mass has changed this is just fat that distributed the wrong way round.
Ah, I see. Well if it is just fat, and you don't have testosterone to worry about, going off estrogen for a while to help lose weight could help. Again, in theory. ::) No estrogen or testosterone is pretty bad for you though, so if your testosterone levels are going to remain super low you really need to keep taking at least enough estrogen level to keep your levels within the normal male range. Otherwise you'll have bad things like bone density loss to worry about. If I were you I'd just try to lose the weight while on HRT, because I don't think going off of it is going to make a lot of difference unless you're willing to supplement testosterone too. Why did this thread turn into a philosophical argument on the merits of passing again?
Quote from: Miyuki on August 07, 2014, 05:48:31 AM
Why did this thread turn into a philosophical argument on the merits of passing again?
Because that is the core of the thread.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 04:59:50 AMBy quitting I meant quitting hormones and trying to work out to get a better shaped body.
Ah, ok. So now we've finally realized - after four pages of posts! ;) - that this thread is about quitting
hormones and not quitting being female, let me ask the most obvious question:
What does your doctor say about this?
(And another question that needs to be asked: what did your doctor say in the past about your dissatisfaction with the effects of HRT? Did he adjust doses, medications, etc. to try to produce more feminine fat redistribution?)
Quote from: Brenda E on August 07, 2014, 06:19:41 AM
Ah, ok. So now we've finally realized - after four pages of posts! ;) - that this thread is about quitting hormones and not quitting being female, let me ask the most obvious question:
What does your doctor say about this?
(And another question that needs to be asked: what did your doctor say in the past about your dissatisfaction with the effects of HRT? Did he adjust doses, medications, etc. to try to produce more feminine fat redistribution?)
Doctor? covers a multitude of options, do you mean my GP or psychiatrist? or someone else?
My GP agrees with me that I don't have a female shape, my psychiatrist doesn't know enough about meds and I don't have an endocrinologist or specialist who is more familiar with the meds. With meds it's trial and error on my part and most endo's I've seen in the past are quite negative and say there's nothing I can do about it. I only have myself to rely on to try new ideas and meds.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 05:22:17 AM
I'll give you my number you can hear my voice for yourself.
No thank you. The call would not go well...
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 05:22:17 AMAre you sure you are older than me?
If the picture is genuine then yes, I am older than you. Probably by 20 years or so
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 05:22:17 AMMost of the time I pass but I still get the odd episode where I don't.
In that case I fail to see what you are complaining about. Anyway, I will leave you to it. Good luck in your journey and I hope you manage to find acceptance within yourself.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 07, 2014, 07:03:04 AM
Doctor? covers a multitude of options, do you mean my GP or psychiatrist? or someone else?
Don't be obtuse. We're only trying to help. Obviously, the doctor prescribing the hormones.
QuoteMy GP agrees with me that I don't have a female shape, my psychiatrist doesn't know enough about meds and I don't have an endocrinologist or specialist who is more familiar with the meds. With meds it's trial and error on my part and most endo's I've seen in the past are quite negative and say there's nothing I can do about it. I only have myself to rely on to try new ideas and meds.
Have you gone to an endo specializing in TG care?
Or a nutritionist? Are you eating properly? Is your body supposed to be naturally bigger than you're making it, because most of us look far better when a little plumper.
If so, it looks like you've probably gone as far as HRT can take you. You could try quitting the meds on a trial basis. Next steps would be the plastic surgeon (expensive) or learning to accept who you are. I don't know what else to suggest.
Quote from: Naturally Blonde on August 06, 2014, 07:22:42 AM
I am of the opinion that hormones don't work and for the majority of TS woman this is a normal occurrence that they don't pass all the time. I've met a lot of TS women over the years (over here in the U.K) and I haven't seen anyone who strikes me as physically looking female.
Over in the USA you have shots (HRT injections) which are not legal over here but shots may be better than the tablets we get over here? I tried for ages to try and get some but could get them. I also haven't tried Spiro (anti-androgens) which I also can't get over here. We can only get Androcur and Zoladex (or Decapeptyl).
Without AAs, I am of the opinion that HRT does not work. You need to suppress T with AAs. Otherwise, the T is being suppressed by E, which renders it's other feminization qualities useless, since all it's doing is suppressing T. And that's just free or total T there is other T that will convert to it's ugly half breed cousin DHT. For two months, I only used E, at a higher dose, and P, but only for one month, and maybe it's just in my head, but I swear I started masculinizing, started masturbating which I hadn't done in ages, had erections (sorry if this is TMI but I need to say it to help explain and trust me I don't like thinking about it), and I gained ten pounds. Now, after three weeks of the same does of E and the near max dose of Spiro, I feel I look almost completely different and def female. I don't wear makeup sometimes, and even was unshaved yesterday, but the spiro slows facial hair growth big time, so...anyhoo, nobody looked at me weird or said a thing and I walked by two women having a convo. They didn't give me a second look or even bat an eyelash. Also, there were no whispers when I went in the stall.
As far as never seeing one TS who passed or looked physically female, well, if someone looked totally female howwould you know they were TS if you didn'tknow them. Maybe in the circle you travelled becuase o fthe lack of AAs no one looked female, but I am 5'5, 120 lbs, Am a 32D, and look decidedly female. I think I'm still being clocked residually from the prior experiment (AAs costed too much and I didn't call insurance company, stupid stupid stupid me) but everyone I meet and talk to addresses me as she and her. But maybe those whispers I hear every once in awhile lately, and the last one was "no, she's a girl, look at her" maybe that's allin my head. My whtever he is FWB/BF A-Hole says guys walk by me and stare all the time, particuarly at my boobs. I'm going to dump him as i have had enough and I can better, but that's a story for another day. I dont sdeserve the lack of respect and can't save him from himself and refuse to go down with the ship.
I have been on HRT since Sept. 25, not even a year. I was on for 7 months before that but at a veyr very low dose and almost no AAs, so I shouldnt count that too much and then with the last couple months, I'm just going to say I have been on them for 10months. Seems right. Does it?
This topic has run it's course. A lot of good advice has been given and argued with.
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