. . . then what is it, for you? I've heard a lot of people say that the "born in the wrong body" paradigm distresses them or doesn't work for them or is incomplete or inaccurate. So I'm curious to hear how other people look at and describe their situations.
Boy, that's a good question.... All I know is I should have born a girl ;). I know that's not what you are asking but ever sense I can remember All I wanted to do was play with girl toys, dress in girl cloths, play girl games. This did not sit well with my dad and he did every thing he could to get me to repress these feelings(I wont go into that right now). Which I did...! I look forward to seeing some other's opinions on this thread.My the angles always be looking down on you.
Hugs,
Melissa Ann
I was born a girl with a medical condition that required surgical and hormonal intervention to correct my birth defects. Nothing more.
Natalie
I like your response, May I use it in the future?
Hugs,
Melissa Ann
I always have viewed it as being assigned the wrong gender considering the number of surgeries that were done in the gentile area. Even after learning what the chromosomes were I still view it that way even though the route they went with does match the chromosomes. It hasn't changed my feelings regarding this. How I feel and think is more important than those chromosomes. I suppose it comes from the point that when someone is born they assign based on what they see without taking into account other things.
Mariahed
Quote from: Arch on November 01, 2014, 04:41:00 PM
. . . then what is it, for you? I've heard a lot of people say that the "born in the wrong body" paradigm distresses them or doesn't work for them or is incomplete or inaccurate. So I'm curious to hear how other people look at and describe their situations.
There is a lot of evidence, good hard science, that gender is controlled by a number of genes, mutations in them, including the androgen receptor genes are responsible for gender ID.
Have to remember as well that there are over 300 natal females who have given birth who are XY. The numbers are small because most people are not karyotyped routinely.
So I would go with gender misassigned at birth since it was based on external physical gender characteristics.
Quote from: Natalie on November 01, 2014, 05:12:09 PM
I was born a girl with a medical condition that required surgical and hormonal intervention to correct my birth defects. Nothing more.
This is how I see it.
I dislike the "X in a Y body" way of describing it, because it fails to explain to cis-folks the GD side of it. Short of whatever interventions the individual needs, which are usually some form of HRT and surgery, the GD cannot be beaten.
It is a demon worse than death. And will kill you, grinding you away like a millstone till there is nothing left.
I think that if more cis-folks really understood that, many more of them would be come to understand and support trans folks. Hopefully with some of the more genuine media portrals coming from Amazon and such understanding will increase.
"X in a Y body" just seems unrelatable, and fails to convey the true deapth and darkness of the abyss that many trans folks have to defeat just to be healthy and whole.
QuoteI was born a girl with a medical condition that required surgical and hormonal intervention to correct my birth defects. Nothing more.
I do like this way of saying it though! :)
- Jaded Jade
For me, it's more an intense feeling that if I somehow COULD become female it would be the most wonderful thing that could happen to me.
I'm a girl who was dealt a "Y" chromosome with the body and expectations that go along with it. I tried to cope the best I could and hoped I could just get by as-is until I could no longer do so. Once my brain began to run on the correct hormones, it became evident that I was best off with the body aligned to the brain.
It's also nice to rock a cute maxi skirt.
I was born with the wrong brain.
I've always felt it fit me well. I definitely feel like a woman trapped in a man's body.
my phenotype got confused and ended up the mirror image of my genotype
I can't work it out either, but I've decided it doesn't matter. Its been driving me crazy and the only thing that helps is moving towards transitioning.
HRT feels great, stopping is terrible. I've been around that loop a few times, and now I really don't care what the reason for it all is.
Quote from: Natalie on November 01, 2014, 05:12:09 PM
I was born a girl with a medical condition that required surgical and hormonal intervention to correct my birth defects. Nothing more.
This is exactly how i see it. We have a birth defect that needs fixing, the same as anyone else.
Quote from: Cindy on November 01, 2014, 05:26:28 PM
There is a lot of evidence, good hard science, that gender is controlled by a number of genes, mutations in them, including the androgen receptor genes are responsible for gender ID.
Have to remember as well that there are over 300 natal females who have given birth who are XY. The numbers are small because most people are not karyotyped routinely.
So I would go with gender misassigned at birth since it was based on external physical gender characteristics.
This is pretty much the way I'm looking at it right now. It's still kind of a
"X brain in Y body" perspective, but it's a little more technically descriptive. Saying something along the lines of
"I have/had an androgen resistance/intolerance which caused my brain and several physical characteristics to develop to be more atypically female than male, so I am / have been / will be changing my body to match" (or vice-versa for FtM, or some shade of grey for non-binaries etc) actually makes a lot of sense. And the science does back that standpoint up - MtF transexuals for example have been shown to have brain activity (while in an MRI scanner) far more consistent with cis-female brains than cis-male brains.
So personally I think the
"X brain in Y body" is a fairly accurate description and is a nice shoot-from-the-hip type explanation, but having a slightly fuller description like above underlines the point that there's real science backing this up, plus it highlights the fact that gender isn't all about what's between your legs and that transsexualism isn't some kind of mental disorder (it's a mis-match between the body and the brain, and it's no one's fault). I also think it's a good segway for talking about GD too (I agree with Jaded Jade on that one - GD isn't talked about enough in these conversations I don't think).
One other thing I would like to point out though:
Quote from: Jaime R D on November 01, 2014, 07:16:17 PM
I was born with the wrong brain.
With all due respect hun, I personally feel this is a completely backwards way of thinking about it :) ♥︎
At the end of the day, you are your brain. The body is nothing more than a vehicle for transporting you around. If you removed the brain from the body, and plugged it into another one (even an artificial / mechanical / virtual one), you would still be you, with all your personality and memories. Whereas another brain being plugged into your body would be a different person without your memories or personality, but their own instead (sure, it would
*LOOK* like you, but it wouldn't actually
*BE* you, if that makes sense? ;) ). Remember the cells of the body are constantly dying and being re-born a new, whereas most of the cells of your brain, spine and nervous system generally stay with you for most of your life. The brain you have now is pretty much the brain you were born with, whereas the body you have now isn't the same body that you had even 7 years ago. The body is "disposable" (don't take that too literally though lol), whereas the brain is you, your soul, your spirit.
This kinda thinking (that I had the wrong brain) is what kept me in denial for so many years. I tried to change the brain to match the body, which is not only impossible, but is also (I have come to realise) really wrong and stupid even if it could be done. Why should I change who I am just to fit in with this shell I've ended up with? Doesn't it make far more sense to change the shell to fit who I actually am inside? Trying to change your brain to match your body would be like a cis-woman (for example) changing her body to male just to suit the masculine car that she drives. Surely it makes more sense to change the car, doesn't it? ;) ♥︎
This is kind of hard for me to answer. I am hesitant to say I was born in the wrong body. Mostly because it gets me to thinking that if I'd been born in the right body, my mind would likely be different in that my experiences, feelings and interactions would likely have led me down a different path. I guess I prefer to think of it in terms of my body builder misreading the blueprint created by my mind architect, and making incorrect changes at birth to the plumbing, wiring, and a putting in a water feature that definitely wasn't built to spec. It built an apartment block instead of a quaint little cottage, lol.
Quote from: ♥︎ SarahD ♥︎ on November 02, 2014, 05:27:13 AM
One other thing I would like to point out though:
With all due respect hun, I personally feel this is a completely backwards way of thinking about it :) ♥︎
At the end of the day, you are your brain. The body is nothing more than a vehicle for transporting you around. If you removed the brain from the body, and plugged it into another one (even an artificial / mechanical / virtual one), you would still be you, with all your personality and memories. Whereas another brain being plugged into your body would be a different person without your memories or personality, but their own instead (sure, it would *LOOK* like you, but it wouldn't actually *BE* you, if that makes sense? ;) ). Remember the cells of the body are constantly dying and being re-born a new, whereas most of the cells of your brain, spine and nervous system generally stay with you for most of your life. The brain you have now is pretty much the brain you were born with, whereas the body you have now isn't the same body that you had even 7 years ago. The body is "disposable" (don't take that too literally though lol), whereas the brain is you, your soul, your spirit.
This kinda thinking (that I had the wrong brain) is what kept me in denial for so many years. I tried to change the brain to match the body, which is not only impossible, but is also (I have come to realise) really wrong and stupid even if it could be done. Why should I change who I am just to fit in with this shell I've ended up with? Doesn't it make far more sense to change the shell to fit who I actually am inside? Trying to change your brain to match your body would be like a cis-woman (for example) changing her body to male just to suit the masculine car that she drives. Surely it makes more sense to change the car, doesn't it? ;) ♥︎
Something you may not know about me is that I'm not a fan of explaining why I am what/who I am. I think it doesn't matter why we're trans, we are, we're not actually hurting anyone by being who we are. If they claim we are, then that's their own issues and hangups talking. So when asked, I may give a different answer every time. Also, I think that too many of us try to justify why we are and that's just not a good idea in the long run.
I guess I see it more being born with the wrong primary and secondary sex characteristics.
Quote from: Natalie on November 01, 2014, 05:12:09 PM
I was born a girl with a medical condition that required surgical and hormonal intervention to correct my birth defects. Nothing more.
I fully jive with the being born in the wrong body statement.
But, Natalie's quote is how I have explained it to other people.
I think the issue you encounter when you tell someone that your body and brain don't match is that they don't/can't understand why you can't just change the brain. In their minds, certainly it must be easier to go to therapy or take a prescription medication for the rest of your life instead of transitioning, taking hormones, and having surgeries. They haven't had the experience, they can't genuinely understand it.
I just think of myself as an undeveloped man.
To me its being born in wrong body + issues that came with it because of it .
I kind of hate it when cis people parrot back "born in the wrong body" to me. That model seems so reductive and simplistic.
Jumping in here...
I was big into why when I first figured out that the word transgender fit me. One of my therapists told me about a study about hormone flooding in utero at certain times during development. She went into a lot more detail that makes total physical sense to me. No offense, please, but the wrong body theory sounds like a cosmic mistake and I'm not really able to wrap my head around.
but regardless, my working on aligning my inner vision of myself with my outer appearance. That inner vision comes from my brain and my soul. I'm a guy. Being able to interact in society as a guy makes me feel authentic and worthy of being alive while having to interact as a woman feels like I'm constantly on guard and faking it for the benefit of everyone around me.
Guy=at peace with myself
Woman-anxious actor
Just my take on things,
Chris
For me, that would imply I had an understanding of what the mismatch was. I've always known I'm "more than a tomboy", actively tried to mirror male mannerisms, and grew up into science and geek culture so there was always a certain expectation to be able to keep up with the guys at least, or even just be "one of the guys". With puberty I guess... I figured it was normal not to be thrilled with the changes, and I didn't have the self-awareness to say that I didn't like them "because I'm a boy". Looking back, I kinda wish I had, but now I know it's something I've always sort of felt, I just didn't understand how to talk about it or what to call it. Getting more seriously into acting has led me to explore a much more binary expression of gender and helped me realise just how much of the female stereotype I not only don't fit, but just plain don't GET.
I'm totally with you on that, PucksWaywardSon.
I have always been all the words that made up transgender, I just didn't know that transgender was a word (okay, that made sense inside my head. Not sure it makes as much sense written down, though.) But now that I know, there is no stuffing me back in that societal expectations box.
Well, not quite true. Until I get some things fixed on the home front, I'm living a double life 1)me :) vs 2) what I look like :'( But this in-between place won't last forever.
Chris -who knows who I am but is still trying to figure out how to live who I am
Makes sense to me, Chris! And totally agreed, once you have the word for it, going back in the box just isn't possible.
I am not "a man in a woman's body". Nobody performed a brain swap between me and a woman. I am a man, and this is my body, there's just some reassembly required.
The "birth defect" model is what makes most sense to me. Another way of describing it is a factory mix-up. They installed the wrong parts and my OS just isn't programmed to deal with this crap.
Quote from: Arch on November 02, 2014, 01:42:44 PM
I kind of hate it when cis people parrot back "born in the wrong body" to me. That model seems so reductive and simplistic.
I think this is the issue, if people want to describe their lived experience in that way it's perfectly fine, many people do have intense physical dysphoria regarding their bodies which is why some trans people go to great lengths to correct it via surgery. The problem is when it gets turned into the totality of trans experiences, usually by cis individuals who mean well but aren't really helping. The born in the wrong body narrative can absolutely erase non-binary trans identities, also non-op identities because the usual assumption is that if you're born in the wrong body then you'll got to every possible lengths to change it, which we know is absolutely not the case.
[quote author=ftmax link=topic=176783.msg1555769#msg1555769 date=1414950686
I think the issue you encounter when you tell someone that your body and brain don't match is that they don't/can't understand why you can't just change the brain. In their minds, certainly it must be easier to go to therapy or take a prescription medication for the rest of your life instead of transitioning, taking hormones, and having surgeries. They haven't had the experience, they can't genuinely understand it.
[/quote]
Agreed. I am encountering a lot of "well, can't you just live with it?" type of responses. The answer is "quite frankly, not anymore."
As for me, I have been trying to explain it to people as I would to a child. My insides and outsides don't match up and I am going to go through a medical process to make them match.
-Bear
I just prefer being the other gender.
I was more than a little surprised to read this. Evidently it's true:
5) Frydman, R. et. al. (1988) Pregnancy in a 46 XY patient. Fertil. Steril., 50:813-814.
6) Sauer, M.V., et. al. (1989) Successful twin pregnancy after embryo donation to a patient with XY gonadal dysgenesis. Amer. J. Obstet. Gynecol., 161:380-381.
7) Kan, A.K.S., et. al. (1997) Two successful pregnancies in a 46, XY patient. Hum. Reprod.,12(7):1434-1435.
8) Selvaraj, K., et. al. (2002) Successful pregnancy in a patient with a 46, XY karyotype. Fertil. Steril., Aug.; 78(2):419-420.
Quote from: Cindy on November 01, 2014, 05:26:28 PM
Have to remember as well that there are over 300 natal females who have given birth who are XY. The numbers are small because most people are not karyotyped routinely.
On the whimsical side I say "Tomato syndrome.. Mistaken for a vegetable, but really a fruit.."
In more serious tone I'll say "The abridged explanation is that because I physically looked like a guy, I mistakenly though I was a guy, despite numerous signs that this was an incorrect assumption on my part. So I spent the last 20-25yrs trying to 'Guy the most guy that I could guy' rather than seek treatment to correct some issues"
Either one I'll chase with a quick dictionary explanation of dysphoria, then a somber statement of some things that have triggered my dysphoria & the multitudes of feelings/reactions I've had ranging from touching beard stubble and having a panicked "get it off me! get it off me!" feeling, to more intense feelings like the time I got so queasy from just a soapy wash cloth touching down there, that I instantly doubled over in a near dry heave, slamming my head into the shower wall. "It's a nightmare-ish roll of the dice for what will cause it & how bad it's going to be.. and its slowly getting worse."
I believe I am not a girl born in a boys body. This body is the only one I have. I am just a woman with the wrong body part and that thing between my legs does not define me.
Yeah, I've never been a fan of saying that I was "born in the wrong body" or that I'm a "woman trapped in a man's body."
I had no issues with my body until puberty. And that's the thing... had I known that I really could be female despite my body, and that I had the option to start hormones once I recognized that I was starting to hate the puberty I was going through, I wouldn't have the "wrong body." Society is the one who told me that it was "wrong." Had it not been for that assumption that being female was somehow contrary to my body, I'd have gotten on hormones and just been another woman after that. And I'd love my body, my voice, everything. It's just that I didn't realize what my gender identity was, and that this gender identity was valid, soon enough.
Basically, I personally find it easier to just see myself as a tomboyish gender-nonconforming girl who later grew out of that gender-nonconformity when puberty started, but unfortunately a hormonal imbalance caused it to masculinize against my will. I don't even like calling myself trans, honestly, because it's not like I ever self-identified as male and then arbitrarily decided to switch. I was assigned male at birth based on my genitals, and I went along with it because people kept telling me I was a boy. Granted, my overall behavior was more androgynous, so I probably would have been equally able to accept myself as female had I been assigned female at birth instead, with the exact same body. So much cultural gender BS is involved with the notion of being "a girl trapped in a boy's body." I'm not trapped in anything. My body is mine, and it's just that I'm more comfortable with female hormones and a vagina. That doesn't mean I was a mistake or something. It's just that society assumes that all people born with penises have to be boys and therefore have to be mentally programmed to go through a male puberty, and vise versa.
So yah... In my mind, I'm not a "woman trapped in a man's body," and wasn't "born in the wrong body," I'm just a girl who was born with a penis. That doesn't make anything about me "wrong."
I do not like the brain and body not matching scenario. I never felt trans as a young person. This was most likely due to being babies to a very extreme degree. I see myself as the same person I always have been. My male self was just an immature version of myself. The female version of me is the mature more refined version of who I am. Think about in terms of music. Would rather listen to a song on a clock radio or on a sound system with a subwoofer? A sub woofer is a speaker that produces the base. My male and female versions are the same. Neither one was fake, but one is a more complete version. The male version of me would be like listening to a song without any bass, and the female version would be like listening to the song with all the bass intact. Neither version of the song is wrong, but one version does not sound as good as the other.
I will also add that I almost felt the other way round - not a boy trapped in a girl's body, but maybe a girl with a boy's brain, because that was the only way I could reconcile the fact that I'm genetically/biologically/physically female but always wanted those "what gender is your brain?" quizzes to come out as male, and they usually do. On the very rare occasions that they didn't, it felt wrong. I just hadn't really thought about the possibility of actually changing the body to fit the mind - I think in a weird way as a kid I was kinda proud of being a bit different like that, but I was also in an all-girls school 11-17 so I didn't have a lot of guys to compare to and go "that's what I should be" just a lot of girls I hated because I couldn't figure them out and didn't want to be like them, and a handful of more tomboyish girls who became pretty much the only friends I had.
Quote from: Arch on November 01, 2014, 04:41:00 PM
. . . then what is it, for you? I've heard a lot of people say that the "born in the wrong body" paradigm distresses them or doesn't work for them or is incomplete or inaccurate. So I'm curious to hear how other people look at and describe their situations.
when I was coming to grips with my gender identity I really didn't relate to the whole being born in the wrong body thing or being a women trapped in a mans body. I never thought about what i could not change( how i was born). It was very distressing because it caused a lot of doubt in whether or not i was trans, even though i was absolutely thrilled by the idea that i could physically transition to a women. so i was going in and out of denial for years. I knew i felt how i felt, and i knew i wanted more then anything to be a women.
If i was asked if i could change the way i was born, i wouldn't have a sure answer. Being born with female parts would have changed how i was raised. it would have changed my whole life. im not sure where i would be, and that sounds terrifying.
I am alive. i am proud of myself for being the person i want to be. I know i will be happier after i transition, and i am comfortable with that. that's all i need.
The initial problem, I believe, was being born "into the wrong body" with the meaning that my brain has the innate and unchangeable opinion, mindset, or whatever that my physical form should be that of a human male while the reality, initially, was that I was born into a typical female form. This implies that the mind and the body are two separate entities which I don't know if I 100% believe. Then again I don't know that I don't.....
Unlike some on here, I always felt trans. I told people when I was younger all the time that I was born into the wrong body... then life happened... I got distracted. Eventually it was unavoidable to face my feelings on the matter once again. Something had to change, and here I am. For me its always been mostly about physical comfort.
I actually don't think I'd have a problem at this point being recognized, or labeled, as a girl.. Seems odd, I guess.. At this point its literally not even a question in anyone who meets me's mind. Maybe I don't know what I'm on about. Really whats important to me is that I want to feel and look how I feel I should. Having changed names and gender markers is kind of just a convenient way to not stick out. I wasn't even planning on a name change, but my mother convinced me. I don't regret it. I kind of just see myself as just a human... I just want to be a human with a form I can be comfortable in. I couldn't be comfortable with the form I was born in. Sometimes it feels weird. I feel like is this all cosmetic? I know it runs so much deeper... I know I couldn't have kept on keepin on without having undergone the changes I've made... I don't know if I've just rambled to oblivion or if any of that was pertinent.
I guess as my form becomes more like I feel it should be, slowly step by step, the more connected my mind and body feel. At this point its hard for me to visualize myself being born into the wrong body because as scarred and punctured as by body may be its mine. I connect with the experiences I've had within it. I'm me in a great part because of these issues I've experienced. So I guess thats why I say I believe the initial problem was being born into the wrong body... but at this point I feel its gotten a little bit more complicated than that.... to say the least.
That post echoes my sentiments exactly, gnome kid. The physical discrepancy is the painful part.
For someone who has recently comes to the realization that i desire to transition this subject is where i really question my trangender-ness. I never played with girl toys. I did love crossdressing, which started when i was 9, that's when i first wanted to be a girl. I wanst into many "male" activities (like sports...i throw like a girl...no pun intended)....What my thing was was that i couldn't see myself sexually as a male.....When my friends ogled over supermodels i couldn't relate...I didn't seem them as sexually as they did...I had no aggression nature towards being with women like most men do...Male on female porn never aroused me....only lesbian porn...where i imagined i was a girl being with a girl... I could masturbate forever thinking about having sex as a man and nothing would happen, but when imagined myself as a woman...not even being sexual...just being dolled up in a miniskirt feeling sexy...it arouses me so much....I'm my heart i really want to transition now that i've come to terms with this part of myself....my first meeting with a therapist is tomorrow and im nervous about what she will say about me...So i just wanted to share
PucksWaywardSon, I think we've had parallel lives, even down to the all girls high school! :D
I am (ever so slowly) physically transitioning because of how it feels to wear my body ie how my shoulders feel square like I've always thought they should, how my center of gravity is slowly evolving as I gain top muscle ad loose bottom fat, etc not necessarily because of how my body looks from the outside. (But I'm getting more pleased w/ how I look. I don't have to squint and look sideways at the mirror as much anymore. I can look eyeball to eyeball for a few seconds now without having to avert my focus.)
Chris
I just don't know.
To me it isn't question of why and how, but rather what am I? that should suffice for me. Science is limited, and we basically no nothing about life in general. It is safer to say that we're ignorant. Science likes to think it knows everything, but it can't even recreate one leaf of grass and blow life into it. If something is explained, the explanation then demands a cure. And that is where things start to become scary. These days doctors can know if your child will be born retarded. Are we willing to play God? what if they could detect that your child would be born transsexual? what would you do? abort it? That is the risk of cold hearted science. Ah, ignorance is bliss, sometimes...
i was born with DSD, and i never thought it as "Being Born in the Wrong Body . . ." i am different from others and this is a fact. i am who i am. i sometimes think it is homologous to the relation between different brands of same product. e.g. cars, if everyone drives a toyota and you drive a honda, does it mean you are driving "the Wrong CAR . . ."? obviously not. it is not "Wrong", it is "Different".
lmbo, i sound totally nerd :laugh:
I find that a very hard question to answer... sure I would prefer to be born as a girl. It would save me of all the issues I have been dealing with and still will have to deal with. But to say I was born into the wrong body I am not sure. I haven't felt like this my whole life, I just felt different about it.
This is me. Jennifer
I like to think of it as "Just a girl stuck in a sea of masculine expectations." ;)
I was born in the right body, just wrong plumbing and lower parts.
Quote from: Ferretty on November 13, 2014, 12:57:52 AM
I like to think of it as "Just a girl stuck in a sea of masculine expectations." ;)
I love this one
I was supposed to be a boy, but my mother suffered from miscarriages and at the time Doctors where told by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe massive ongoing doses of an artificial estrogen called D.E.S.
Sadly it did not work and wasn't tested properly and caused massive health issues in the mothers, children and grandchildren. In me it disrupted my sex determining hormones and made me a jumble of both sexes. I developed a physically female brain, this creates a horrific sensation called Gender Disphoria that is so traumatic suicide rates in sufferers are up around fifty percent. I take female hormones to give my brain the right chemical balance it was designed for, and slowly regenerate my body to female on a cellular level using my female DNA. I am female, this mind in this brain, but my body is out of alignment.
I know for me I'm 95% certain how and why I am transgendered. I believe I should have had an older sister. My mother had a tubal pregnancy terminated August 1970. I was born in November of 1971. I believe her spirit refused to die so she melded herself into me. My sister got my male spirit cause she's more manly than feminine. That's what I think.
I describe myself variously, depending on my moods. Generally I'd say I'm "a female soul born into a male body". I like using this word "soul" (1) because it accurately reflects how I think about myself, but also (2) because it's a word that a lot of people, especially religious people can relate to, even though my concept of the word isn't really religious, given that I don't view the soul as eternal. I don't have a soul. I am a soul. My body doesn't define me. It's only the place my soul inhabits.
Sometimes I describe myself as having been born "of mixed gender"--i.e., psychology female but physically male. And sometimes I describe myself by saying, "I am a woman. I just got the wrong kind of body, that's all."
Good question.
I actually don't think I am in the 'wrong body' but rather with the WRONG GENITALS (initially at least). If I had the right genitals from the beginning, I wouldn't have additional things I don't accept like breasts and oversized hips. So right now, I disassociate basically my entire torso from who I am. This is not to say that I love my limbs that are cursed with the estrogen fat but they're mine.
I hate the "X trapped in a Y's body" and "born in the wrong body" phrases, personally. It's way too simplistic to the point of being even more confusing. Honestly I think it makes cis people assume we're a bit crazy. It sounds like a spiritual explanation; implying there's some greater control over my birth, and that events should/should not happen a certain way. Mostly it sounds like the tagline of a bad science-fiction film.
I was born female-assigned, and this wasn't right or wrong. It just happened that way.. nature is weird. People are also weird, because they assign very specific social roles based on your genitals. I think gender variation is natural and fairly common. There was nothing inherently wrong about my behaviours and self-identity not "matching" my body. But for whatever reason, I've experienced gender dysphoria and I felt like some aspects of my body were alien, and didn't feel right with some innate sense that I am male and want my body to look a certain way. I like to think of it like my brain has a "body map" of a masculine body, and this is why I felt so alienated from my 'female' characteristics. Everything about developing into a woman felt wrong and distressing, and transitioning has made me so much happier and comfortable within myself.
I like some of the other explanations I've seen here, but the ones that ring the most true still have the same spirit of wrong body, right mind, and that explanation has always worked fine for me. Maybe it's an oversimplification, but it kind of needs to be. You have about one sentence before a cis person's eyes start to glaze over.
I think the essence of simplicity that is conveyed by the phrase works, but, I agree, it is too simple. How do you sum up the internal struggles, expectations and culture into just a few words? I have a male, XY body, which I have had from birth. My mind/spirit is female. Somehow, there is a disconnect between the body and mind/spirit which creates horrible feelings of anxiety and depression. I tried to play the part that the outward appearance conveyed. Internally, I struggled the whole time. It took me 25 years to finally realize what was going on between me and my body. Once I finally accepted who I was, I was and am able to do something about it.
What irritates me most about the phrase is the immediate write-off that happens after someone says it or hears it. Something like, "oh it's just that simple, right?" No, it isn't that simple. You have to account for relationships, education, habits, feelings, emotions and everything in between that makes us who we are. As others have said, I would not wish this on my worst enemy.
I'm in the right body.. my body.. it just went through an unfortunate process in which it was doused with testosterone.. I long to think of how I'd appear outwardly had I had the correct puberty. Funny story: my parents said I didn't breathe for a long time after I was born.. like 15 minutes.. not sure how I survived, but my sister and I joke that my former boy soul left in that time span and a girl soul entered into me. Haha! Kind of interesting to think about. What a crazy thing for a soul to do.
its not really being born in the wrong body, its more like your body receiving the wrong instructions for puberty/genital development in the womb.
Folks, this is a description thread, not an explanation thread. How do you describe yourself and see yourself? Not "how did you get this way?" because that question does seek causes.
If you don't think the "born in the wrong body" paradigm is a good explanation, that's because it cannot really function as an explanation for our condition. "Oh, there were a bunch of empty bodies floating around, and my consciousness accidentally slipped into one" doesn't quite cut it as a cause for how we are. But so many people outside of the trans community--and some within--describe themselves as born into the wrong body (an apparent effect from whatever cause), so I was wondering how many people here use that same description for themselves.
Quote from: Arch on December 16, 2014, 09:38:04 AM
so I was wondering how many people here use that same description for themselves.
Given I'm a simpleton I have to keep things simple otherwise I confuse myself. "Hi, I'm Rosie" is about as much description as I ever give anyone.
Rosie
well, to solve my medical condition I would prefer to have the female body cloned from my genes and have my brain transplanted into the clone or just keep on HRT and hope for the best
Quote from: H, H, H, Honeypot! on December 21, 2014, 04:06:04 PM
Given I'm a simpleton I have to keep things simple otherwise I confuse myself. "Hi, I'm Rosie" is about as much description as I ever give anyone.
I've often categorized myself as "a <lastname>." That makes me unique, even if my last name is actually quite common. :P
I've tended to think about myself as "A man with a female body," which, to me, has some subtle differences from the "born in the wrong body" paradigm. It emphasizes that this is my body, and it's biologically female, and that neither my body nor my mind are "wrong", nor necessarily incongruent except that culture sees them as such. For myself, I don't know how much I would want to change my body if the gendered cultural expectations attached to it were different. It's mostly the desire to have my social role and my gender be congruent that drives me. I don't think it's possible for the mind and the body to ever be 100% congruent.
Then again, not a day goes by that I'm not surprised by the degree of my body dysphoria. So my current model of gender variance may well be influenced by repression and denial ;)
Well depends on how I'm asked. If someone tries telling me something like, "God made you that way and He made you as you are" I say, "Exactly. God made my life a little harder than some, gave me a little harder obstacle course I go through, and He made me a man. Just my dads sperm and moms egg couldn't agree on that."
If someone asks me just why I usually say, "I guess I always knew I was a boy."
Now if I'm joking with friends or a friend asks me I sometimes say, "Maybe my dads sperm knew my mom was gonna have two boys and thought to give her a girl to be fair."
Quote from: Arch on December 16, 2014, 09:38:04 AM
Folks, this is a description thread, not an explanation thread. How do you describe yourself and see yourself? Not "how did you get this way?" because that question does seek causes.
If you don't think the "born in the wrong body" paradigm is a good explanation, that's because it cannot really function as an explanation for our condition. "Oh, there were a bunch of empty bodies floating around, and my consciousness accidentally slipped into one" doesn't quite cut it as a cause for how we are. But so many people outside of the trans community--and some within--describe themselves as born into the wrong body (an apparent effect from whatever cause), so I was wondering how many people here use that same description for themselves.
I think of it kind of like this–my body is not me, it's mainly a means of conveyance (other things too, ofc, but it's still not where my consciousness exists).. Since my body and assigned gender role at birth were in conflict with my mind/consciousness/who I am at my core, I just think of it as being born in the wrong body for this mind/consciousness I do have. That's why, tho simplistic, I kind of feel it is a good explanation for me.
Natalie I love your answer, that is exactly how I view it. From the first time my neighbors two girls had talked me into playing dress up I knew something was a miss because I loved being made up and dressed as a girl. It was like a tingly calming feeling came over my body. Even when we showed their moms and they said I made s cute girl, without think in a girls voice I said thank you and courtesied.
Quote from: Rudy King on November 23, 2014, 04:53:36 AM
I was born in the right body, just wrong plumbing and lower parts.
I guess I should clarify. I'm Intersex.
Although I'm male, I have a girls body. Just with male junk.
Right body, wrong junk.
I can't claim I AM (1) a female born in the wrong body. But for as long as I can remember I had a huge desire to be female. This is way before puberty, so there wasn't a sexual element to it. Being female just *fits* my nature better, I suppose.
(1) sorry for the edit - it's Friday night - I've had a few
Quote from: amber roskamp on November 09, 2014, 10:41:56 AM
If i was asked if i could change the way i was born, i wouldn't have a sure answer. Being born with female parts would have changed how i was raised. it would have changed my whole life. im not sure where i would be, and that sounds terrifying.
I am alive. i am proud of myself for being the person i want to be. I know i will be happier after i transition, and i am comfortable with that. that's all i need.
I really like this sentiment. I've always said every decision I've made has resulted in the person I am now. Change any one decision, who knows what else changes? Even going into repression mode meant I was able to have my daughter who is the light of my life.
I have never liked the ol' "women trapped in a man's body," but I never knew exactly why. This thread has cleared some of that up.
Good topic.
It's mostly experiential to me. Of course, the experiences I have affect my quality of life and happiness, so its a big deal.
Basically only a fraction of *who* I was, felt congruent with *what* I was, and I let it go for a very long time. Mainly because I was unaware of the options. I know I started investigating as soon as I realised I *had* options ...
Nonetheless my experience of life was *mostly* internalised, expressing it was mostly out of the question. That over time became pathological and in many ways the old me was just kinda dying.
Anyhow its all been turned upside down - a bit like flipping an hourglass, where every small thing about me is a grain of sand. Now I am *all* me, *all* the time, and its like something out of a fantasy.
I really do feel like I have a second chance at life. It's impossible to feel regret :~)
my (cis) dad has always had a testosterone deficiency - it was passed down to me, though in a more extreme form this time.
i was born closer to the gender line than some.i knew something wasnt right but i was in a family where it just wasnt possible to mention it.as i grew up i felt most comfortable with the girls who were tomboys,i felt that was my place. body wise and feeling wise i came to accept i had female feelings and a body dysphoria. its hard been different from the accepted transgender but its how i am. as you all know its a feeling deep inside that you cant switch off. its about being content. at first i worried i wouldnt "pass" but now im finding out where i fit.the only way i can describe where i feel comfortable is if you imagine a trans man who has decided to de transition.the gender spectrum is odd like that. there used to be a tv series called quantum leap where a guy jumped about in time but jumped into other peoples bodies.i remember watching that and thinking i feel like that.im me always will be but bits are wrong.
For me, it isn't so much "wrong body" as it feels like I just developed wrong. I had a birth defect on my genitals that had to be repaired when I was young, but ever since, every few years, I've needed to have maintenance done to fix problems that would come up. And it's like... maybe it's the whole thing that's the defect. Or maybe I just have too much testosterone and that explains the hair everywhere. But it doesn't feel like the "wrong body" per se. Just that certain parts did't come out right.
The rest of it feels sociological. Because I had this defect, I was raised to be a certain way, to act a certain way, to wear certain kinds of clothes and live up to certain expectations. That because I have these defects, I was taught a completely different way to be, much of it never felt right. And in that process, the girl I should have been allowed to become got locked away in a dark box of secrets, hidden under the bed. She screams inside of me. She screams so loud and so desperate, and she doesn't even remember why she got locked away. And because she never got to grow up, my growth has been stunted. My ability to cope with everything is limited. My willingness just to get up and out of bed everyday, to simply exist, has been worn down to nubs. I don't actually want to live. For years, I've only just been waiting to die.
She cries, just wanting to be held and loved by every girl she's ever dreamed of. Every girl she's ever wanted to be, to be with, and hates this thing I've turned her into. It's not her body that scares her, anymore. It's that it's become her prison. She's not in control. Everyone else's expectations for her body is, because her body doesn't match X Y and Z. She might even be able to live with the parts that don't always work, the hair that's everywhere that makes her feel gross and ugly. But she can't live in that world where, "no, you can't wear that. That's girls' clothes," anymore. "No, you can't call yourself Daria, that's a girl's name". "No, you can't want this or that, because you're a boy".
No, I'm not a boy. I don't want to be a boy. And I also think that, as a girl, I have a right to have short hair if I want. Or wear comfortable shoes. Or have sexual thoughts and feelings for other women. But that's my choice. I want to be able to express my femininity as it feels right to me. As a boy, I'm not allowed to do any of that. I'm still at a point where I talk about myself in the third person, sometimes, because that's how this feels. Because I haven't been allowed to be me for so long, she feels like someone else.
"being in the wrong body" is just a very uncomplex way of explaining a very complex thing, an experience that isn't as universal as the narrative trope suggests. The truth is, at least for me, it's a contention of an entire identity, that everything I'm "supposed to be" stands in opposition to everything I actually am. And the line blurs on who actually sees it and who doesn't. When I was young, it was like everyone else saw it but me. But nowadays, I'm the only one who knows, no matter how loud that little girl inside of me screams out in everything I do. And all I want to do sometimes is ask, "if you all saw me acting like a girl when I was young, why didn't you just let me BE one?" Now, I want to be one so bad, it crushes me, and I don't have the first clue how. I don't even know what questions to ask, and the ones I do feel so clunky and complicated.
I wish it was just as simple as "being in the wrong body". It denotes something that could be fixed with a few procedures. It's more like someone twisted my soul like some kind of balloon animal, and I don't even begin to know how to get it all untied. I may never get it all untangled. I may never be "fixed". I may never know how to.
I know this is a little off topic but I will explain something that might have a bearing on GID.
My sister happen to lose an eye when she was young then she got a transplant now here is where it gets odd. This has been know to happen with others with organ transplant but basically some of the personality of the donor organ can pass to the recipient. My mom told me that my sister did act a little different after the transplant and really today she is more tomboyish but not dysphoric about it either.
Long story short much earlier someone said the wrong brain well some validity to it ya more the wrong body since its the brain that thinks but it Is possible that the body itself does have a bearing on ones personality. So that brings me to how the heck does that pertain to GID well maybe its a lot more something that happened with the DNA or something that is miss-matched.
Whatever the cause matters little just something happened and nature goofed time to fix it and be you true self body and soul. I know I had put this simply an daria happen to post just second before me but what she had said yes I agree with that 100%. Its the soul and if we can at least in some shape or form get closer to our true self all the better if that makes sense and by no means is that any simple matter. The way I look at the Xn vs Y thing well that's like saying the world is black and white what about the grey:)
Personally after I have looked into trans I have learnt that ya I am one now the next step is correction whatever that be. Keep reading things on this site that its like omg that's me and starting to see things in my really young childhood. I had guess always aspired to be female yet not born as such so had to deal with what I was dealt now though i have found I can change that and why not if it doesn't hurt anyone etc. Really at the point starting to not care why or what caused it but how and when the change will occur and the who is me:)
One side note dang it Jill F not sure how you put things always short simple yet very honest and true keep that up:)
I think it is basically an issue where the brain doesn't match the the rest of the body and it is much more simple to make the rest of the body right than to change the structure of the brain to match the rest of the body. There is a social aspect to it, where not only do we have the wrong body, but we also have been socialized as the wrong gender (with the exception of transgender children raised in accepting families), so many of us have still have mannerisms, speech patterns, and ways of interacting with the world that are stereotypical of he wrong gender. There is nothing innately wrong with this, but it can be a dysphoria trigger (for me at least), and makes passing difficult and requires a lot of work to overcome. My name for it is "raised by wolves syndrome"
I was born in the right body to be transgender ;) I identify and describe myself as transgender and likely always will. The rest of the world may describe me as they see it but i feel we are clearly not limited to our external appearance.
I see the 'birth defect' interpretation is popular. It's not how I feel personally, however.
The way I see it, my body beforehand was perfect. It was what it was, did what it did. Being born biologically male was not a defect in itself.
My frame could have carried almost any male stereotype. Labourer, truck driver, wrestler, bodybuilder, action movie hero - you name it.
---
My issue was that *who* I am did not fit.
While I couldn't change *who* I am - I could change *what* I was.
So, once I knew the option was there, the decision was easy.
ill let you know when i find out. im at the start of a journey which i decided had no preconceived ideas so i can become myself. guessing that a level of transition will cure my dysphoria just isnt for me ill know when i get there.