hey all is there anyone from the uk here ? ^.^
i know things are different in the usa to the uk as we have thge NHS and usa have to pay for everything as far as i know that is i could be wrong . ;D
I'm from the UK. The NHS is free at the point of need, but try getting the NHS to pay for anything that is costly quickly. In England, there is at least a 12 week wait to see a psych at a GIC after referral from your GP and massive 3 year wait for surgery after proving you're worthy following a two year RLE.
If you have the means, it may be quicker to go private in UK.
Hi Saiya. ^^
I'm in the UK too (in Scotland, which has a different NHS system). It took around 10 weeks for me to get my psychiatric appointment at the local mental health department after GP referral, and a further 8 weeks to get the follow-up psychology appointment (although they messed that up -- it should've been sooner). A few days ago, I received my referral letter from the national GIC, and if I'd waited until now, I'd have a further 12-month wait before my appointment with them. Fortunately, I self-referred to them in June, so my appointment is backdated and I 'only' have about 7 months left to wait.
Even more fortunately, I have a GP who has been willing to provide me HRT as bridging therapy in the meantime, but not everyone is so lucky. :(
I won't even be able to get on the waiting lists for surgery until I'm at the GIC, but at least things are moving forward for me in the meantime. I'm paying for my own hair removal, since I would have to wait for the GIC otherwise -- and I think they only provide 8 sessions anyway.
Quote from: Leila on November 15, 2014, 11:30:52 AM
I'm from the UK. The NHS is free at the point of need, but try getting the NHS to pay for anything that is costly quickly. In England, there is at least a 12 week wait to see a psych at a GIC after referral from your GP and massive 3 year wait for surgery after proving you're worthy following a two year RLE.
If you have the means, it may be quicker to go private in UK.
well i have seen a physicist and had refurels from my GP and im waiting to see the ~NHS to evaluate me now then they will tell me were i am in the waiting list
Quote from: Cat on November 15, 2014, 11:47:16 AM
Hi Saiya. ^^
I'm in the UK too (in Scotland, which has a different NHS system). It took around 10 weeks for me to get my psychiatric appointment at the local mental health department after GP referral, and a further 8 weeks to get the follow-up psychology appointment (although they messed that up -- it should've been sooner). A few days ago, I received my referral letter from the national GIC, and if I'd waited until now, I'd have a further 12-month wait before my appointment with them. Fortunately, I self-referred to them in June, so my appointment is backdated and I 'only' have about 7 months left to wait.
Even more fortunately, I have a GP who has been willing to provide me HRT as bridging therapy in the meantime, but not everyone is so lucky. :(
I won't even be able to get on the waiting lists for surgery until I'm at the GIC, but at least things are moving forward for me in the meantime. I'm paying for my own hair removal, since I would have to wait for the GIC otherwise -- and I think they only provide 8 sessions anyway.
i asked my gp if they would sopply me with the pills i needed and they are asking about it ahead of NHS schedual so i could start urlyand id still pay for them as the pills would cost about £60 but cos i got mine off the usa the shipping and handling pushed up the price to £110, thats why i asked my GP , but yet to hear back from that , at this rate may as well just wait till NHS get in touch , i do admit i feel
Quote from: SaiyaDarkfire on November 15, 2014, 12:43:13 PM
well i have seen a physicist and had refurels from my GP and im waiting to see the ~NHS to evaluate me now then they will tell me were i am in the waiting list
If you've just been referred on by your GP then unless it's to a local psychiatrist (which is unlikely as you say you've already seen one), I guess you'll be waiting at least 12 weeks (depending on the GIC you've been referred to) to see someone at the GIC. In that case, do you know which GIC your GP has referred you to?
Quote from: Leila on November 15, 2014, 01:00:49 PM
If you've just been referred on by your GP then unless it's to a local psychiatrist (which is unlikely as you say you've already seen one), I guess you'll be waiting at least 12 weeks (depending on the GIC you've been referred to) to see someone at the GIC. In that case, do you know which GIC your GP has referred you to?
i beleave it was leeds GIC
Hello from a Blackpool girl
Quote from: big kim on November 15, 2014, 01:07:01 PM
Hello from a Blackpool girl
hehe hello from manchester XP
Quote from: SaiyaDarkfire on November 15, 2014, 01:06:05 PM
i beleave it was leeds GIC
I have heard that Leeds had closed their books for the rest of this year, how true I do not know. At least two people who have been referred there have been six months plus with no sign of a first appointment.
If you are able to get a re-referral from your GP, Northampton GIC are currently running at 12 weeks wait time for an appointment.
Quote from: Leila on November 15, 2014, 01:12:36 PM
I have heard that Leeds had closed their books for the rest of this year, how true I do not know. At least two people who have been referred there have been six months plus with no sign of a first appointment.
If you are able to get a re-referral from your GP, Northampton GIC are currently running at 12 weeks wait time for an appointment.
well what i was thinking of doing was going to my GP and asking if they hurd anything and maybe sending out a letter for an update on what is going on as i have not herd anything for a little wile
Quote from: SaiyaDarkfire on November 15, 2014, 01:15:47 PM
well what i was thinking of doing was going to my GP and asking if they hurd anything and maybe sending out a letter for an update on what is going on as i have not herd anything for a little wile
i just had a look at all my letters i have had as i kept them safe and the last one i got was on the 25-7-14
In any case, good luck with whatever you do. You're going to need a lot of it and also plenty of patience.
You may want to use this time waiting, to change your name officially by deed poll or statutory declaration and document this as well as all other name changes and prove that you are living in your preferred gender before your first appointment. All of this will count as evidence towards your two year RLE you will need with the NHS. Put all of this into a file and take it with you to your first appointment to show the consultant. Also if you haven't already, ask for the report from your psychiatrist and any letters from your GP. These should all go into your file.
The GIC will help you towards getting your hormones, GRC and SRS; but ultimately it is down to you to direct your own path. Showing that you are serious will hasten your progress through it.
Quote from: Leila on November 15, 2014, 01:25:53 PM
In any case, good luck with whatever you do. You're going to need a lot of it and also plenty of patience.
You may want to use this time waiting, to change your name officially by deed poll or statutory declaration and document this as well as all other name changes and prove that you are living in your preferred gender before your first appointment. All of this will count as evidence towards your two year RLE you will need with the NHS. Put all of this into a file and take it with you to your first appointment to show the consultant. Also if you haven't already, ask for the report from your psychiatrist and any letters from your GP. These should all go into your file.
The GIC will help you towards getting your hormones, GRC and SRS; but ultimately it is down to you to direct your own path. Showing that you are serious will hasten your progress through it.
i wasent sure about the name change untill i started hormones but tbh i think its the having everything needing to be changed that bothers me the most lol
Actually the longer in life you leave name changing the more things that need changing. I found that out the hard way. I made a very, very, very long list and I'm much older than you.
There's no guarantee they'll give you a script for hormones on your first visit to the GIC, but the sooner you start with getting a new name then your RLE will be counted from that date. Surgery won't be considered on the NHS without RLE being carried out. After two years of RLE you'll be able to apply for a GRC (Gender Recognition Certificate) which will enable you to apply for a new Birth Certificate in your preferred gender.
Private4lyfe.
HRT in 3 months. Sorted.
Me too. Went private and on HRT in 3 months. Will transfer to GP for shared care :)
Quote from: Leila on November 15, 2014, 01:38:55 PM
Actually the longer in life you leave name changing the more things that need changing. I found that out the hard way. I made a very, very, very long list and I'm much older than you.
There's no guarantee they'll give you a script for hormones on your first visit to the GIC, but the sooner you start with getting a new name then your RLE will be counted from that date. Surgery won't be considered on the NHS without RLE being carried out. After two years of RLE you'll be able to apply for a GRC (Gender Recognition Certificate) which will enable you to apply for a new Birth Certificate in your preferred gender.
so its better to have my name done sooner than later
Yes, the GRP (Gender Recognition Panel), the people who decide if you get a piece of paper to get to apply for a new Birth Certificate (GRC), need at least two years proof of name change and evidence of living with that name change before they grant you the GRC.
If you wait a year to change your name, you'll effectively wait three years to get an amended BC.
ah ok i see , ill look in to that then
i semi settled in to a name that i want
my male name is Thomas Henry Whitehead >.>
but i carnt have darkfire as my last name so had to think of something a little more normal lol
i so far settled on
Saiya Elizabeth whitehead
I'm a non-transitioner based in the East Midlands who plans on moving to Nottingham early next year.
Quote from: SaiyaDarkfire on November 15, 2014, 11:24:44 AM
hey all is there anyone from the uk here ? ^.^
i know things are different in the usa to the uk as we have thge NHS and usa have to pay for everything as far as i know that is i could be wrong . ;D
Hey sweetie :) I am from the USA, there's plenty of those from UK here. In the US, insurance pays for transgender treatment such as HRT since the ever so popular "obamacare" was enacted. I have a couple of trans women best friends from UK that tell me you have to prove it to be medically necessary for NHS to pay for it, but I could be wrong. Good luck, and take care :)
I live in Manchester, and I am on the books at Leeds GIC. I was referred in June 2013 and had my first appointment in June of this year. They definitely won't prescribe hormones on your first, or even second or third visit. At Leeds, the first appointment is basically a getting to know you session and risk assessment. They'll ask you a load of questions about substance abuse, self harm etc. At this point you are just in the assessment phase, and not actually on the 'care pathway'. If you are still living as male at this point, you're assessment period will last longer. I had been full time for seven months beforehand, so my assessment period was two appointments; the first initial one and the 'decision' one where the 'lead professional' and a psychiatrist will both quiz you and make a decision on whether to treat you or not. I've met people in the waiting room whose assessment period had lasted two years, but these people had gone to their first appointments having not even come out to anyone. Basically they are looking for proof that you are serious about the entire thing.
At the end of your assessment period, if you are accepted onto the pathway, you will then have another appointment where they work out a care plan. If you want hormones at this point they will make an appointment for you with the endocronologist. I have been on hormone privately since February but I have my appointment with the NHS hormone clinic in December (there was a three month wait). On the same day I'll be getting my first referral for surgery. You need two opinions and the guy who used to do the second has retired so I'm looking at a six month wait for that one. They have told me to expect surgery in December next year. From what I have heard I think that might be optimistic, but I don't think the waiting time is three years.
Basically if you are committed to it and have already done things like name change and living full time in work or education you'll get through it all much faster.
Hope this helps. Did you know about Transgender Day of Remembrance on Sunday 23rd, 4.30pm in Sackville Gardens?
Quote from: Squircle on November 15, 2014, 04:19:52 PM
-snip-
They have told me to expect surgery in December next year. From what I have heard I think that might be optimistic, but I don't think the waiting time is three years.
-snip-
Sorry to say it will equate to three years if you are referred for surgery at Charing Cross Hospital. There's no money in the NHS pot for funding and Imperial College NHS Trust are dragging their heels with the number of operations per month with one surgeon and another in training coupled with a waiting list of over 300+ and counting.
See here for further analysis http://uktrans.info/medical/48-other-medical-resources/252-imperial-college-healthcare-nhs-trust-charing-cross-grs-waiting-times (http://uktrans.info/medical/48-other-medical-resources/252-imperial-college-healthcare-nhs-trust-charing-cross-grs-waiting-times)
Quote from: Leila on November 15, 2014, 04:33:28 PM
Sorry to say it will equate to three years if you are referred for surgery at Charing Cross Hospital. There's no money in the NHS pot for funding and Imperial College NHS Trust are dragging their heels with the number of operations per month with one surgeon and another in training coupled with a waiting list of over 300+ and counting.
See here for further analysis http://uktrans.info/medical/48-other-medical-resources/252-imperial-college-healthcare-nhs-trust-charing-cross-grs-waiting-times (http://uktrans.info/medical/48-other-medical-resources/252-imperial-college-healthcare-nhs-trust-charing-cross-grs-waiting-times)
You may be right, I certainly hope not, I'm just going on what I've been told at Leeds. I won't be going to Charing Cross for my GRS, but the alternative is still Phil Thomas in Brighton. I'll ask about waiting times next time I'm at Leeds in December.
Quote from: Squircle on November 15, 2014, 04:50:15 PM
You may be right, I certainly hope not, I'm just going on what I've been told at Leeds. I won't be going to Charing Cross for my GRS, but the alternative is still Phil Thomas in Brighton. I'll ask about waiting times next time I'm at Leeds in December.
I know of someone else at Leeds GIC and she was recently bumped up the list to go to Brighton to see Dr Thomas. In her case it was a cancellation and the secretary at Leeds GIC rang around a number of possible candidates on the waiting list. The reason for the cancellation was that the previous patient hadn't met the pre-surgery requirements, so had to bail. That was at the end of September and she is now booked in for surgery in January. If you have been given the cleared funds to go Brighton, then the wait should hopefully be short, and certainly not as long as the poor souls referred to Charing Cross.
Sadly at a lot of the other GICs, they will only refer to Charing Cross. Apparently in Wales everyone is referred to Charing Cross.
Quote from: Leila on November 15, 2014, 01:12:36 PM
I have heard that Leeds had closed their books for the rest of this year, how true I do not know. At least two people who have been referred there have been six months plus with no sign of a first appointment.
If you are able to get a re-referral from your GP, Northampton GIC are currently running at 12 weeks wait time for an appointment.
It's looking really really bad for getting an appointment at Leeds GIC
Quote
Q1 2014/2015 - 218.9 days average wait to first appointment offered in quarter
Q2 2014/2015 - 353.2 days average wait to first appointment offered in quarter
The Service has been funded by NHS England to see approximately 160 new clients during 2014 / 15 financial year, all appointments for this year have been allocated therefore any new referrals received will be added to the NHS England waiting list. New assessment appointments will be allocated again next financial year once further funding is agreed.
http://uktrans.info/medical/78-information-from-specific-nhs-gender-identity-clinics/leeds-gender-identity-clinic/308-leeds-gender-identity-service-waiting-time-to-first-appointment-offered (http://uktrans.info/medical/78-information-from-specific-nhs-gender-identity-clinics/leeds-gender-identity-clinic/308-leeds-gender-identity-service-waiting-time-to-first-appointment-offered)
Yeah I've been given the choice of three: Oliver Fenton (can find no info on him), Phil Thomas at Brighton or Phil Thomas/Tina Rashid at Charing X. I spoke to a really nice lady at the hospital in Brighton and she said they do take referrals from Leeds so I'm pretty certain I want to go there. She said once funds have been cleared, the waiting list for them is 3-6 months depending on what conditions you need to meet (smoking, weight loss, whether you are circumsized etc). It's annoying that I have to wait so long for a second referral (unless they appoint someone in the meantime).
Quote from: Squircle on November 15, 2014, 04:19:52 PM
I live in Manchester, and I am on the books at Leeds GIC. I was referred in June 2013 and had my first appointment in June of this year. They definitely won't prescribe hormones on your first, or even second or third visit. At Leeds, the first appointment is basically a getting to know you session and risk assessment. They'll ask you a load of questions about substance abuse, self harm etc. At this point you are just in the assessment phase, and not actually on the 'care pathway'. If you are still living as male at this point, you're assessment period will last longer. I had been full time for seven months beforehand, so my assessment period was two appointments; the first initial one and the 'decision' one where the 'lead professional' and a psychiatrist will both quiz you and make a decision on whether to treat you or not. I've met people in the waiting room whose assessment period had lasted two years, but these people had gone to their first appointments having not even come out to anyone. Basically they are looking for proof that you are serious about the entire thing.
At the end of your assessment period, if you are accepted onto the pathway, you will then have another appointment where they work out a care plan. If you want hormones at this point they will make an appointment for you with the endocronologist. I have been on hormone privately since February but I have my appointment with the NHS hormone clinic in December (there was a three month wait). On the same day I'll be getting my first referral for surgery. You need two opinions and the guy who used to do the second has retired so I'm looking at a six month wait for that one. They have told me to expect surgery in December next year. From what I have heard I think that might be optimistic, but I don't think the waiting time is three years.
Basically if you are committed to it and have already done things like name change and living full time in work or education you'll get through it all much faster.
Hope this helps. Did you know about Transgender Day of Remembrance on Sunday 23rd, 4.30pm in Sackville Gardens?
i am female in and out of work
Quote from: SaiyaDarkfire on November 15, 2014, 06:53:07 PM
i am female in and out of work
In that case then, get a letter from your boss or someone in hr or something saying that you've been working as a female with a date of when this started. And get the name change done and change your name with something like a utility company or insurance or something. Or bank account. You can then take all of this as proof and they'll be much more likely to get you into the pathway quickly. They'll also back date the two years RLE to when you first went full time.
I know a girl who managed to get referral to both Leeds abd Nottingham. The latter gave her an appointment fairly quickly but she didn't hear anything from Leeds, so she's going to Nottingham now. I have no idea what it's like there but might be worth looking into?
I got a referral from my GP for Leeds GIC back int July last year and finally have my 1st appointment booked in for 10th December...be prepared for a long wait there!
In October 1989 I was referred to Charing Cross,I got my appointment in May 1991.Things did progress quickly after my first visit though
I'm with Daventry mental health centre and the wait was significantly shorter than the one for Leeds clinic. Do you girls know if she could potentially change her GIC? Just to make things quicker
If you're not on HRT, you can ask your gp for it, according to the guidelines you're entitled to it without having to visit GIC
Quote from: Kaylee on November 16, 2014, 04:25:09 AM
I got a referral from my GP for Leeds GIC back int July last year and finally have my 1st appointment booked in for 10th December...be prepared for a long wait there!
We will just miss each other... I have my next appointment on the ninth!
I'm also in the north of the uk it's been about a month since I went to my gp I haven't heard anything yet I'm thinking of going back to see what's happening . It's interesting what's being said about the go possibly giving hormones I'll be asking about that
Chrissie Rose xx
Quote from: crowcrow223 on November 16, 2014, 05:32:43 AM
If you're not on HRT, you can ask your gp for it, according to the guidelines you're entitled to it without having to visit GIC
You can indeed ask your GP but there are few who agree to prescribe on their own. It is not unknown but it is rare.
As for the GUIDELINES repeat GUIDELINES - they ENTITLE you to nothing. They are not rules or laws. The GICs have their own rules.
For Leeds they have appointments every 4 weeks and usually offer hormones on visit 3 or 4. For Charing they offer hormones on or after the second visit which is udually 4to 6 months after the first.
I know of no clinics offering hormones on the first visit.
As regards GP prescriptions...
It can happen. It should happen -- assuming the patient meets the criteria -- but unfortunately it isn't happening often enough. I had to push for it, which I did by writing numerous letters highlighting the relevant passages in the Scottish protocol, the Royal College of Psychiatrists' guidelines and the WPATH Standards of Care. Even then, the initial result of the practice meeting was a refusal. They're cautious, and I can understand why up to a point, but once it's clear that the patient is stable and settled in their new gender role, has no comorbid/contraindicating conditions and has full capacity to give informed consent, it's just frustrating that most are still so reluctant to offer treatment. It's driving people to self med... or worse in some cases. I can understand the need to be certain of the diagnosis, but in clear-cut cases where all criteria have been met, I think general practice needs to catch up.
Ultimately, my SO wrote a letter to the practice manager outlining the debilitating effects dysphoria and lack of treatment were having on me, and this, along with our convincing my GP to contact the GIC and talk to an expert, made the difference. The GIC doctor advised my GP that treatment ought to be an option in my case (assuming that the psych reports were in order, which they were), and I got my prescription almost five weeks ago.
So it's worth a shot, but it's definitely pot luck and will depend a lot on your specific circumstances and how your GP and practice feel about it all. If you think you have a case, though, it's worth pushing for it.
I got reffered to porter brook clinic in sheffield in february, and have my firat appointment on the 15th of December :)
If im being honest, I didnt mind the wait too much, as it gave me a chance to get things sorted out (coming out to freinds, electrolysis, voice therapy, and gaining new freinds and confidence)
My advice would be to use the time wisely, and dont let the wait get you down :)
I do have a quick question, will a gic in the uk prescribe hormones if im not currently out at work? I live the rest of my time as female, but dont currently work as female, as Im afraid of losing my job :/ ive been frantically applying for new jobs, but I really feel id be bullied if I were to come out at my current place :/
Zoe
X
Quote from: Zoe Louise Taylor on November 17, 2014, 12:03:55 PM
I got reffered to porter brook clinic in sheffield in february, and have my firat appointment on the 15th of December :)
If im being honest, I didnt mind the wait too much, as it gave me a chance to get things sorted out (coming out to freinds, electrolysis, voice therapy, and gaining new freinds and confidence)
My advice would be to use the time wisely, and dont let the wait get you down :)
I do have a quick question, will a gic in the uk prescribe hormones if im not currently out at work? I live the rest of my time as female, but dont currently work as female, as Im afraid of losing my job :/ ive been frantically applying for new jobs, but I really feel id be bullied if I were to come out at my current place :/
Zoe
X
Based on what they've said to me at Leeds, they do put a pretty big emphasis on living your 'preferred role' in full time education or work. I know that definitely applies to the criteria for RLE, so there's a chance they may say no, but I don't know for sure, I think every gic is slightly different in how they interpret guidelines.
I'm based in the East Midlands, and I'm going to see the CAMHS in Leicester hopefully soonish (they've accepted my case and are giving me an appointment when one is available). Hopefully I can get referred to Tavistock and Portman soonish as well which has a four month waiting list according to Mermaids. They can prescribe oestrogen there I think and can definitely prescribe blockers and I believe I am old enough now to choose to have HRT anyway so I should hopefully be getting somewhere by summer time next year.
I've heard about clinics refusing to give treatment based on RLE and living in a preferred role however I also recall reading somewhere about this being classed as something like 'non-clinical delay' as the guidelines state it is not needed and can be challenged.
Quote from: Squircle on November 17, 2014, 01:01:28 PM
Based on what they've said to me at Leeds, they do put a pretty big emphasis on living your 'preferred role' in full time education or work. I know that definitely applies to the criteria for RLE, so there's a chance they may say no, but I don't know for sure, I think every gic is slightly different in how they interpret guidelines.
I wouldnt mind coming out at my current job if I really needed to, I just feel I wouldnt be accepted at my current place :/ I feel I would maybe need alot of support from a councillor who is experienced in this sort of thing if I were to come out!! Xwould a gic help me with this? Xx
Quote from: Zoe Louise Taylor on November 17, 2014, 12:03:55 PM
I got reffered to porter brook clinic in sheffield in february, and have my firat appointment on the 15th of December :)
....
I do have a quick question, will a gic in the uk prescribe hormones if im not currently out at work? I live the rest of my time as female, but dont currently work as female, as Im afraid of losing my job :/ ive been frantically applying for new jobs, but I really feel id be bullied if I were to come out at my current place :/
I do not know anyone at Sheffield. I was initially referred there but the waiting list was beyond a joke at that point (3 to 5 YEARS) so I want to Charing from which I have now been discharged. I know about a dozen people at Leeds and what they have gone through.
Both Leeds and Charing put a big emphasis on RLE as do most GICs because they reckon that you need to be committed to transition to make a success of it and RLE is seen as commitment. As for getting bullied at work, you are not in the USA - here in the UK there are laws about discrimination and gender related violence. Your employer will come down hard on anyone who violates that. Also we seem to lack the bible-thumping crazies who make the life of american trans folk such a misery.
Quote from: speckyhailey on November 17, 2014, 01:15:37 PM
I've heard about clinics refusing to give treatment based on RLE and living in a preferred role however I also recall reading somewhere about this being classed as something like 'non-clinical delay' as the guidelines state it is not needed and can be challenged.
Look hun - if you are basing your hopes on that document then you are in for disappointment. Maybe they will do it differently for minors, but for adults that document and its "guidelines" mean very little. Maybe one day the medical establishment will change but right now they follow their
own guidelines and the official ones are just sparkles and moonbeams. Nonetheless I come across trans people clinging to the "official guidelines" like a magic talisman that will produce results for them and they all get so frustrated.
--
More people need to understand that hormones are not magic bullets - the changes they make are mostly internal, inside your head and no one can see those. That is why so many people on trans websites spend so much time under surgeon's knives for GRS and FFS, or getting hair restoration or having bristles killed off or having voice coaching, voice surgery, learning makeup, wardrobe, deportment and so on. Most of a transition is not hormone dependent, most of it is hard work and determination and sheer bl**dymindedness.
Hormones will produce some boobage and softer skin and a bit of fat redistribution and it will help but it maybe 15% - 20% of what will help. Just remember that in the UK your employer will not stand in your way and the police take gender related crime seriously.
Compared to many places worldwide the UK is a good place to transition, but the real key to a good transition is to take control of it yourself and make sure that all the admin happens on time, that appointments are made on realistic timescales and that you have clear objectives about what you want and be prepared to work with the gender clinics whatever their requirements are. Being politley pushy is OK but being demanding or unreasonable will just slow things down.
Before you go, get your name change sorted (takes less than an hour in any Magistrates' Court - cost £20) and get it changed on some utility bills or anything official and then
take it with you because it shows you are willing to push forward. If you can (and I will get roasted for this) go in a skirt. I know it is not supposed to matter and maybe you will never want to wear one again but are you seriously telling me that you cannot do it for less than an hour to tick whatever silly boxes exist? Yes I know it is dumb, yes I know we should not have to do it, yes I know women wear trousers (heck - I wear them all the time) but if it cuts down the length of time you have to deal with GICs then surely it has to be worth it. I know people who took a "principled stand" over many of the points I have mentioned and their transitions are so slow and take years - mine took less than 18 months.
You can drive a lot of this forward by simply finding out what the GICs want you to do and then doing
before they ask you to. It is amazing how much that speeds everything up.
Quote from: Zoe Louise Taylor on November 17, 2014, 01:21:16 PM
I wouldnt mind coming out at my current job if I really needed to, I just feel I wouldnt be accepted at my current place :/ I feel I would maybe need alot of support from a councillor who is experienced in this sort of thing if I were to come out!! Xwould a gic help me with this? Xx
Yes, they will give you support. I don't know what the provision is for actual counselling but the impression I got from Leeds is that they will help in any way they can. Because I was already working as a female they didn't elaborate on that area to me.
If you want to speed things up though, being full time at work will help a lot.
Quote from: ayhdrb on November 17, 2014, 02:04:32 PM
Look hun - if you are basing your hopes on that document then you are in for disappointment. Maybe they will do it differently for minors, but for adults that document and its "guidelines" mean very little. Maybe one day the medical establishment will change but right now they follow their own guidelines and the official ones are just sparkles and moonbeams. Nonetheless I come across trans people clinging to the "official guidelines" like a magic talisman that will produce results for them and they all get so frustrated.
Nevertheless, if they decide to go on their own guidelines, I will challenge it. The fact that a person has come to the point where they are seriously considering HRT and other treatment shows quite a commitment, especially for minors seen as they want you to go through a mental health service before they see you. If the NHS can make people wait for months, even years, just for an appointment, I'm not going to let them put me through further stress reorganising my life and trying to pass when I've not had any help towards it.
Quote from: ayhdrb on November 17, 2014, 02:04:32 PM
If you can (and I will get roasted for this) go in a skirt. I know it is not supposed to matter and maybe you will never want to wear one again but are you seriously telling me that you cannot do it for less than an hour to tick whatever silly boxes exist? Yes I know it is dumb, yes I know we should not have to do it, yes I know women wear trousers (heck - I wear them all the time) but if it cuts down the length of time you have to deal with GICs then surely it has to be worth it. I know people who took a "principled stand" over many of the points I have mentioned and their transitions are so slow and take years - mine took less than 18 months.
The people at Leeds (the ones I've dealt with anyway) are young and open minded. I have never once gone in anything other than jeans and t shirt, but they put me straight through to the pathway and the hormone clinic, and I'm getting my first opinion for surgery in a few weeks. I see a lot of women in the waiting room who have taken the whole 'dress femininely' advice to heart and it doesn't do them any favours. I think you are better off wearing what makes you feel comfortable and being yourself.
Quote from: speckyhailey on November 17, 2014, 02:50:57 PM
Nevertheless, if they decide to go on their own guidelines, I will challenge it. The fact that a person has come to the point where they are seriously considering HRT and other treatment shows quite a commitment, especially for minors seen as they want you to go through a mental health service before they see you. If the NHS can make people wait for months, even years, just for an appointment, I'm not going to let them put me through further stress reorganising my life and trying to pass when I've not had any help towards it.
My own experience of my gic is a long way from the torturous path full of old gatekeepers with old fashioned views of gender that I read about in forums. I think with you being young youll be fine. I think with some of the older patients they tend to be a lot more cautious.
Good luck anyway
Quote from: Squircle on November 17, 2014, 03:02:12 PM
My own experience of my gic is a long way from the torturous path full of old gatekeepers with old fashioned views of gender that I read about in forums. I think with you being young youll be fine. I think with some of the older patients they tend to be a lot more cautious.
Good luck anyway
I don't know. I've had bad experiences with the NHS. They prevented me from playing sports for more than a year, and sports is a huge part of my life, basically due to their incompetence and long waiting times, as well as making me go halfway across the country to attend appointments that I didn't need to. Two years later I have only just received treatment for the injury and I've never received the physiotherapy I was promised at the start. I cannot bear to be forced into RLE before I am ready or to be forced to wait for treatment to take place because a GIC decides to do what it wants rather than follow the guidelines given by the NHS. I can't afford to go private so the NHS being decent about it is all I can hope for.
Quote from: Squircle on November 17, 2014, 02:35:56 PM
Yes, they will give you support. I don't know what the provision is for actual counselling but the impression I got from Leeds is that they will help in any way they can. Because I was already working as a female they didn't elaborate on that area to me.
If you want to speed things up though, being full time at work will help a lot.
Fab :) im willing to go along with whatever they require of me :) as long as I get help and support to do so :) having read through the document that the gic sent me, it does appear asthough there is a great deal of councilling and support groups! So thats good :)
Im just kinda hoping that I can find another job soonish, I think transitioning In such a masculine environment would be very tricky :/ I know there are laws against bullying in the workplace, but I dont want to feel too alienated!! Xx
QuoteI don't know. I've had bad experiences with the NHS. They prevented me from playing sports for more than a year, and sports is a huge part of my life, basically due to their incompetence and long waiting times, as well as making me go halfway across the country to attend appointments that I didn't need to. Two years later I have only just received treatment for the injury and I've never received the physiotherapy I was promised at the start. I cannot bear to be forced into RLE before I am ready or to be forced to wait for treatment to take place because a GIC decides to do what it wants rather than follow the guidelines given by the NHS. I can't afford to go private so the NHS being decent about it is all I can hope for.
Well that sounds bad, but treatment for injury isn't what I was referring to, I was talking about Leeds GIC. The guidelines you are talking about aren't the official opinion of the NHS, they are literally just guidelines and not many GICs follow them to the letter. I'd imagine a lot of this is to protect both themselves and the patient. I don't agree with everything they do but once I met some angry trans women I perhaps realised why they are less inclined to hand out hormones without any kind of commitment from the patient. There are some there I've spoken to who aren't full time, haven't come out to many people, and dress in the hyper feminine way I mentioned before, and they expect the Doctors to let them straight onto the books and hormones. My electrolysist works with the NHS and she says she's seen plenty of people who are demanding hormones with no commitment on their part, but when the hard work starts and the reality of how tough transition can be hits home, they drop out and go back to their male lives. I'm not saying that's you because I know nothing about you, but the GICs can only afford to treat so many people per year and so they like to make sure that those spots are going to the right people.
If you go along and say that you feel like you are making a commitment because you are 'seriously considering' hormones then they will want you to do just that - seriously consider it until you know that this is the right path for you. They will see you every month and there's a chance especially considering your age (I'm assuming you are 16ish?) that you might be able to get blockers or even bridging hormones, but they'll want to be convinced before they put you onto the care pathway because they only want people who are fully committed on that list. Again I'm not casting any aspersions on you or your situation because I don't know you. The guidelines are all well and good but then you get the actual funding levels that are available, then issues of liability etc.
The GICs are certainly not perfect and the NHS can be a nightmare at times but I still think it's better than the alternative, because there are people in other countries who can't transition because they can't afford to. My personal experience of the people working at Leeds is that they do genuinely care for their patients and are doing their best whilst dealing with meagre budgets and increasing demand.
Quote from: Zoe Louise Taylor on November 17, 2014, 03:36:14 PM
Fab :) im willing to go along with whatever they require of me :) as long as I get help and support to do so :) having read through the document that the gic sent me, it does appear asthough there is a great deal of councilling and support groups! So thats good :)
Im just kinda hoping that I can find another job soonish, I think transitioning In such a masculine environment would be very tricky :/ I know there are laws against bullying in the workplace, but I dont want to feel too alienated!! Xx
Yeah I can't really preach because I work as an artist in a studio full of creative types, I would've found it much harder in a more masculine environment. You might be surprised by how people react though. And you look good which helps! :)
I think it's a fair point about the commitment. I suspect my own case was helped enormously by the fact that I had unilaterally gone full-time prior to having my psych appointments, but it was easier for me to do that over the summer since I had time to adjust before going back to university this autumn. If I'd been working instead, it might have been more difficult, depending on the work environment.
The guidelines do take account of this, given their emphasis on being 'established in your acquired gender role' as one of the prerequisites for HRT.
When I first came out, I was resentful of the idea of RLE full stop -- and especially prior to receiving any help in passing. I was terrified of people seeing me as a 'man in women's clothes' and imagined all kinds of terrible situations arising from it. Pretty soon I realised that I needed my transition to be as fast and as smooth as it could possibly be and I had to make a tough choice. Did I stick to my guns on 'no attempting to pass until I get help' and risk not getting that help because I hadn't convinced them I was serious enough? Or did I take the (incredibly tough) route of trying to live my life as the woman I knew I was inside, irrespective of anything else? I'm glad I chose the latter. Sure, it sucks going out and knowing you don't pass well, but it also makes you stronger (as a friend on here told me prior to my doing it). And despite my fears, I didn't get any bad reactions from anyone. Moreover, I felt empowered and in control of my situation (up to a point) and that helped ameliorate my dysphoria somewhat. With the right clothes, hair & makeup, breastforms, etc., no one looked twice at me... although I found it impossible to talk at first (I'm only starting to get more confident with that now).
Everyone feels differently, and everyone's circumstances are different. I would never presume to say there's a right or wrong way of doing things. There are all kinds of reasons why a person can't or won't come out, and in an ideal world, the assessments would take account of those factors and judge on a case-by-case basis whether those ought to slow progress toward HRT -- if it were truly felt that the person was unsure or unstable in their gender identity, for example -- or whether they represented an external block that ought not to stand in the way of treatment. I do understand the resentment toward 'gatekeeping', but I guess I also understand why the NHS needs to be sure.
The least I would hope for the future is that faster and wider access to HRT could be facilitated for those patients who clearly meet all the requisite criteria, however. At present, it's too much of a lottery.
The NHS interim protocol states that there is no requirement for any social transition but that there must be persistent gender dysphoria. RLE is required for surgical procedures.
RLE is not very viable for me. I am heavily involved in the local rugby club, as player, referee and coach, and I am an instructor at a martial arts club. Being forced into RLE would greatly compromise these roles. Furthermore, despite there being many who would support me, there are also a large number of people at my school who wouldn't. As much as I want to start, there is too much at risk for RLE, in particular my A levels. I could start HRT and hide a years worth of physical changes quite easily and then begin full time when I start university. Surely it is better to allow someone to gradually ease into living as their preferred gender over a year's time rather than pushing them into an overnight change?
I agree with you. I think it would be far better if the system were able to take such things into account.
Sorry, the reference I made to being 'established in [one's] affirmed gender' is made specifically with regard to GPs prescribing bridging treatment; you're right to say it's not a blanket prerequisite for HRT according to the guidelines. I can't comment on how the GICs are with that (i.e. how ready they are to prescribe when someone is unable to undertake RLE). My anecdotal impression is that they're more reluctant than perhaps they ought to be, but I have no direct experience of that.
As regards the GP situation, I feel that my GP would never have prescribed bridging treatment if I hadn't been full-time already. Which, again, is not necessarily how it should be, but that's been my experience.
Quote from: speckyhailey on November 17, 2014, 05:40:11 PM
The NHS interim protocol states that there is no requirement for any social transition but that there must be persistent gender dysphoria. RLE is required for surgical procedures.
It does not matter. The GICs have their own rules and that is what they will follow. If you yell and scream about it they will just say to go to some other GIC. It is their way or the highway.
Quote from: speckyhailey on November 17, 2014, 05:40:11 PMRLE is not very viable for me. I am heavily involved in the local rugby club, as player, referee and coach, and I am an instructor at a martial arts club. Being forced into RLE would greatly compromise these roles.
So are you planning never to live as female? Or are you planning to give these activities up at some point anyway? Surely it is obvious that if you are going to keep doing these things and you are going to transition then at some point people will notice?
Once you go on hormones you will almost certainly lose physical strength, your metabolism will slow and you will tire more easily. Activities requiring physical strength will become much more difficult. There is no way round that.
Quote from: speckyhailey on November 17, 2014, 05:40:11 PMSurely it is better to allow someone to gradually ease into living as their preferred gender over a year's time rather than pushing them into an overnight change?
Indeed. So why wait for doctors? Why not ease yourself into the change? Why not start making changes now? Start growing out your hair, start grooming yourself more, exfoliating, moisturising and so forth? Start practising your voice changes because voice is important. Start watching how women move and interact with each other. Transition is a long process because bodies change so slowly so you might as well get started now.
The doctors/GICs will not present you with a solution on a plate. We all have to figure out our own transitions. All the doctors do is watch for you going crazy or depressed and seeing that the medication is not killing you. Everything else is in your hands which is why they want to see that you are committed to the process.
I totally understand why they would want pepple to be full time before hormone treatment is prescribed, and as I said before I am willing and ready to take that step! Would the fact that I am actively seeking other employment in which I could attend work as female work in my favour in this regards? X
As in ayhdrb, that I would enter RLE when I go to university. I will be giving up my roles in local places anyway and the benefit of them in terms of CV building are there. I will give up playing rugby next summer regardless as I cannot risk any injuries impacting my A levels but coaching and refereeing I will stick with. I will also have graded for 2nd Dan black belt by then, meaning I can go into a less physical, more instructing role at martial arts. The problem is I'm more than 1 1/2 years away from going to uni now and feeling like sh*t everyday. I am growing my hair out, I keep as clean shaven as possible, I'm gradually trying to act more feminine so as to ease everyone around me into it as well, I moisturize my skin anyway. The only stuff I'm not really doing is wearing make up and practicing my voice due to the fact that I have a largeish family that is often in the house, so anything I try to wear or speak like is noticed.
You not out to your family Hailey?
Quote from: Seras on November 18, 2014, 01:47:58 AM
You not out to your family Hailey?
I'm out to my parents. They are supportive but they just don't quite understand. My siblings are all younger than me and to be honest I don't want to come out to them until I need to.
Well that's really cool. You are already doing a lot better than me at that age, I was 22 before I didn't work up the courage and my mum made me tell her what was wrong! But you know in hindsight I wish I had come out at your age, and I wish more than anything I got HRT and all this stuff earlier. It has actually been really getting me down recently. You should think hard on what you think matters more to you. Playing rugby and all that or doing this.
If transitioning is something you really wanna do, the earlier the better, so long as you are ready.
Quote from: Zoe Louise Taylor on November 18, 2014, 01:26:05 AM
I totally understand why they would want pepple to be full time before hormone treatment is prescribed, and as I said before I am willing and ready to take that step!
Good for you. Being ready is half the game, maybe more.
Quote from: Zoe Louise Taylor on November 18, 2014, 01:26:05 AMWould the fact that I am actively seeking other employment in which I could attend work as female work in my favour in this regards? X
I do not know. All I can say is that GICs like to see you being involved in other things because, in the past, they have discovered that sitting hibernating and waiting for the magic of HRT rarely works well.
One thing I do know is the experiences of women who transitioned in very male work environments - one of them was a road-gang boss - and they were all accepted. Some of the guys thought they were a bit crazy, but many of them respected the making of such a difficult decision. All the women involved were very, very nervous before coming out, afterwards they wondered why they let themselves get so worked up.
Be confident in yourself because it shows and others pick up on it and know that what you are doing is right for you and people can respect that.
Quote from: ayhdrb on November 18, 2014, 04:29:49 AM
Good for you. Being ready is half the game, maybe more.
I do not know. All I can say is that GICs like to see you being involved in other things because, in the past, they have discovered that sitting hibernating and waiting for the magic of HRT rarely works well.
One thing I do know is the experiences of women who transitioned in very male work environments - one of them was a road-gang boss - and they were all accepted. Some of the guys thought they were a bit crazy, but many of them respected the making of such a difficult decision. All the women involved were very, very nervous before coming out, afterwards they wondered why they let themselves get so worked up.
Be confident in yourself because it shows and others pick up on it and know that what you are doing is right for you and people can respect that.
Thanks for your advice :) I think alot of the time I fear the worst :/ im sure I wouldnt be bullied at work as the people I work with arent mean! I would however be abit alienated I fear, but this is something I would be able to cope with and the fact that there are patient support groups at the gic may help with this :)
As I said previously, I feel ive used the 10 month wait wisely and have already started electrlysis, come out to alot of my freinds, and made new freinds, gained a qualification in beauty therapy (which im hoping to further later next year) abd joined many dance and social groups that have given me extra confidence, and new freinds :)
I am gona need alot of support to come out at work, but im so determined to move forward in my transition that I cant let my fears stand in the way :/
Make sure that you take documentary evidence that you are doing all this and it will really help your case. It sounds like you are off to a good start.
Also, have some objectives - tell them what you want and ask when is it likely to happen. Asking is fine, discussing is fine, but "demands" are likely to cause delays. Polite pushiness and showing that your mind is settled will work well.
I think you will be OK, it is just you are at that scary point were everything is on the verge of crystallising into a new reality and it is impossible to tell how people will jump until they do. I remember it well, but in retrospect the fear of it was worse than anything that happened.
Good luck!
Quote from: Seras on November 18, 2014, 02:09:41 AM
Well that's really cool. You are already doing a lot better than me at that age, I was 22 before I didn't work up the courage and my mum made me tell her what was wrong! But you know in hindsight I wish I had come out at your age, and I wish more than anything I got HRT and all this stuff earlier. It has actually been really getting me down recently. You should think hard on what you think matters more to you. Playing rugby and all that or doing this.
If transitioning is something you really wanna do, the earlier the better, so long as you are ready.
Rugby matters and all but by the time I will be at a point where HRT could start I would have given up the playing side of it anyway. The big deal about rugby and martial arts, as well as my A levels, is that the stuff I'm doing with them could be the deciding factor in getting into a university like Oxford or Cambridge. As much as I want to do it, RLE could seriously screw with some of it and I know for definite that there are people who would make my life hell at school. I understand they want commitment but when I'm working on other changes but not switching into full time due to the potential to compromise my chances with university am I considered less committed than someone who is in the position to go full time straight away?
I am not talking about what GICs want I'm not saying you should get on RLE without HRT either. Screw them, I went private so I can do it how I want. I am asking what you want. Cause to me it sounds like you do not particularly want to go the NHS route, at least not he CHX GIC route. I don't know where you live but the CHX GIC was extremely unaccommodating and unwilling to budge to the point that if I wanted to progress on my terms I had to go private.
Don't expect the NHS to be accommodating, they won't be unless you are lucky. I wish I hadn't, I wasted almost 2 years being strung along by them after all the NHS delays before getting out my money.
Quote from: Seras on November 18, 2014, 10:20:41 AM
I am not talking about what GICs want I'm not saying you should get on RLE without HRT either. Screw them, I went private so I can do it how I want. I am asking what you want. Cause to me it sounds like you do not particularly want to go the NHS route, at least not he CHX GIC route. I don't know where you live but the CHX GIC was extremely unaccommodating and unwilling to budge to the point that if I wanted to progress on my terms I had to go private.
Don't expect the NHS to be accommodating, they won't be unless you are lucky. I wish I hadn't, I wasted almost 2 years being strung along by them after all the NHS delays before getting out my money.
I want to go the NHS route because I simply don't have the money to go private, nor does my family apart from my uncle, but he isn't exactly LGBT friendly...
Then you will have to be prepared to do what they say if you want treatment.
I'm living in the UK, Nottingham ^^
I'm in Devon :) Just waiting for my first appointment at The Laurels in Exeter, which I've read good things about. I'm a late one, 46 :) and nowhere near ready to go full time. I'll see what happens at the GIC but if it comes down to going private what kind of cost do you think I would be looking at?