Hi,
It's been a few days since anyone has added votes to my poll. I guess I'll leave it open so that people who change their mind can change their vote. Also, new people can add votes as they find the poll.
This post is just a summary of the poll results. I want to allow others to comment before I do.
Just for honesty's sake, I am admitting that I edited a few of the questions for this post so they wouldn't be overly long.
As of 8/14/07
Question: Do FtM's & MtF's think androgynes are wierd or crazy? (Be Honest)
Androgynes need not respond.
| Question | # of votes | % of votes |
| I accept Androgyne as a gender alternative. | 23 | 46.9% |
| I don't really accept Androgyne as a gender alternative | 8 | 16.3% |
| It's a form of gender expression, not a gender identity. | 7 | 14.3% |
| Don't understand/know enough about it to have an opinion. | 4 | 8.2% |
| I really just think it's a phase. | 3 | 6.1% |
| You people are deranged. Please leave me alone. | 2 | 4.1% |
| Undecided | 1 | 2% |
| I somewhat believe it's a valid gender identity / don't know for sure | 1 | 2% |
Total Voters: 49
So all-with-all that basically means the following:
48.8% Believes or somewhat believes that Androgyne is a valid Gender Identity
40.8% Does not believe that Androgyne is a valid Gender Identity
10.3% Is undecided or unsure
I don't think there's a need to point out that those are close numbers, but I do wonder how everyone feels about it.
Personally, I admit that during the time this poll dragged on I did feel somewhat forced to re-explore my mindset. Nevertheless, in the end all that brought was
more confirmation that I
am Androgyne.
Additionally, I do feel that asking the same questions outside the TG-community would result in a similiar outcome although it wouldn't suprise me if there was
more acceptance for Androgyny, and as an argument I'll attach a quote:
Quote from: Andra on August 10, 2007, 01:57:56 AM
Trans people are often those with the most invested in the idea of binary gender, the idea that even though your gender can end up the complete opposite of your body and chromosomes, any other mix-up is somehow completely impossible. Most cisgendered people will be completely clueless about androgyne/intergender identities but a fair proportion will accept they exists when its explained to them. If we explain it as another form of gender dysphoria they have no reason to think it's any less likely to be real than transsexualism.
(Yeah I know a lot of people don't believe TS exists either, but it's probably not as many as 90%)
Peace 8)
hi No_id,
I had to re-examine myself too as the voting went on. I finally concluded that I am exactly what I thought I was, only a little fuzzy as to specifics. :-\
At least we know that if we could figure out a way of educating people, we will have some test subjects to try it out on.
I'm really curious as to how we are thought of by the people who don't believe our gender identity is as true for us as theirs is for them. I mean, why do they think we came to this support site?
Oh well, I'm too tired to think about it right now.
See you around,
Rebis
they probably ignore our posts, as i ignore posts about breast forms.
QuoteI'm really curious as to how we are thought of by the people who don't believe our gender identity is as true for us as theirs is for them. I mean, why do they think we came to this support site?
Yes, that got me too. Almost 50% believed that androgyny was a valid gender identity, so we're off to an OK start though. I also know how long it took me to understand androgyny as a psychological and spiritual sense of self as opposed to merely a form of gender expression. And most of the world around us is highly invested in maintaining (and policing) the gender binary, even other transpeople. As Ricky used to say to Lucy, we've got a lot of 'splaining to do...
Zythyra
The result is higher then it would have been had you put that poll post up last year before the androgyne section was renamed, or back before the genderqueer section was added. I think at least half of the acceptance vote has been "educated" since this section has been in existence. Though it would not have been zero, it might have been lower or near 25%, I believe, based on a rough guess of the reactions back when the first posts were being posted. And that quarter or so only because of never hearing or knowing about a large group of people feeling that way. And even at this site not having a body of persons representing that view. Except a few buried posts in the TS, IS, and CD/TV sections which would oddly seem out of place. And some androgynes being a silented few, not feeling comfortable even to post anything, for fear of being targeted for those views.
When the section was growing and renamed, many ts were interested in reading and researching more about us, since it was the first time really hearing about it. Though really many have probably read posts about people feeling in between or neither for many years. Probably existing ever since humans have been conscious and anatomical sexes with separate gender constructs have existed. That people have felt different then their "assigned" genders.
The people that make the androgyne section here are called different categories in different communities. Really a name is just a name. No matter what its called, the name doesnt determine the concept of behavior, actions, thinking, beliefs, or related influence. Calling its name one thing or another, doesnt matter to me as long as its not vulgar or disrespectful.
Although the results to me did not mean anything really on how I feel about myself, and have felt since a teenager. Its good to know there are some outside of this androgyne community that support, know, understand, and even accept how I feel. Thank you for those TS that accept me for how I believe, feel, and live as being valid and real. Although it would not have changed what I feel about myself gender wise, it helps me feel a little bit better socially on TG group basis.
I hate to state the obvious but I thought why not?
I don't need people to believe in me or my extraordinary situation in order to embrace it myself. Sure the more people that understand it the easier it is to just express ourselves without any restraint. I think its wonderful that some of those who are not androgynes have questions because they want to understand. I don't mind in the least to answer any and all of their questions as fast as they send them.
When people reach out to you, reach back.
Marq and Mia
Quote from: Rebis on August 15, 2007, 04:10:04 PM
I'm really curious as to how we are thought of by the people who don't believe our gender identity is as true for us as theirs is for them. I mean, why do they think we came to this support site?
Quote from: y2gender on August 15, 2007, 09:19:22 PM
Yes, that got me too. Almost 50% believed that androgyny was a valid gender identity, so we're off to an OK start though.
There was a bell in the distance. Someone told me to rumble.The majority of that
40.8% did not elaborate on their vote while it is in fact their point of view that allows Androgynes to be able to isolate important fragments that
should be explained further
in order to establish more understanding. Therefore the majority of those voters completely missed the initial, and most important motivation by which the poll was created; they
completely missed the point. To take that even a step further, as Jaycie would say (although reworded): "If an individual cannot explain their reasoning it is not their business to vote. An opinion; a standpoint should be supported by arguments whether these are biased or unbiased." Now it's just another paper of statistics that means
absolutely nothing.
Additionally, I'd like to impose a question for KK and M&M in order to take things a step further:
Under similar circumstances would you be able to brush off the outcome as easily if some of the supported phrases would be "Bigenderists are simply CD's in denial" and/or "Bigenderism equals MPD/Shizotypical personality disorders" ?
... And then then bell rang again, and I figured I'd rather take a breather.
Quote from: Marq and Mia on August 15, 2007, 10:44:25 PM
I hate to state the obvious but I thought why not?
I don't need people to believe in me or my extraordinary situation in order to embrace it myself. Sure the more people that understand it the easier it is to just express ourselves without any restraint. I think its wonderful that some of those who are not androgynes have questions because they want to understand. I don't mind in the least to answer any and all of their questions as fast as they send them.
When people reach out to you, reach back.
Marq and Mia
I prefer to reach into their wallets. :D
Quote from: no_id on August 16, 2007, 07:46:36 AM
Additionally, I'd like to impose a question for KK and M&M in order to take things a step further:
Under similar circumstances would you be able to brush off the outcome as easily if some of the supported phrases would be "Bigenderists are simply CD's in denial" and/or "Bigenderism equals MPD/Shizotypical personality disorders" ?
I would follow such phrase with this process.
First, I think such statement would be academic not practical. There is sufficient numbers of bigenderists, CDs, and MPD that I know are out there. I dont know of any derogatory label of any of the 3, that would present one as being more desirable than the other, realistically. How is being CD better than mpd, or bigenderist better than cd, or mpd better than bigenderist?
Second, I would question the reason for such claim. Sounds to me like someone who once identified and now doesn't (revenge: throwing stones back), someone trying to gather more numbers (discount their beliefs to make them come to their side), someone trying to minimize the other's identity and self esteem (I am greater than you), journalistic (in search of real answers, education, or sensational stories) or scientific enquiry hopefully followed by tests, review, further q&a, and credible research.
Third I would question the credentials and credibility. What psychology or sociology experience or education. Or is it just a amateur inquiry, diagnosis, or definitions.
Quotewould you be able to brush off the outcome
Quite easily!
Quote from: Ken/Kendra on August 16, 2007, 10:52:56 AM
Quotewould you be able to brush off the outcome
Quite easily!
Must be nice to be that secure/confident. 8)
Nevertheless, it wouldn't suprise me if someone threw in a legit argument along the lines of DSM-recognition, and point out Bigenderism in terms of Two-spirited phenomena in Native Tribes which is surrounded by quite some controversy. *shrugs* But, I'm not sitting at
that side of the table.
DSM?
One can quote the DSM, but the DSM itself warns against non professionals doing so. It also mentions built in weaknesses, lack of research for future diagnosis. It focuses on diagnosis that can be treated with therapy, drugs, surgery, or other procedures.
And even then it creates NOS = Not otherwise specified diagnosis as a sorta catch-all for other related possible people.
What does the DSM say about itself?
About categories and criterion
Quote"there is no assumption that each category of mental disorder is a completely discrete entity with absolute boundaries..."
About only professionals using it
QuoteIt is important to understand that the appropriate use of the diagnostic criteria requires clinical training and that they cannot be simply applied in a cookbook fashion.
There is no medicine, no surgical procedures, no therapy that can cure bigender. Its a bible for TS, because such diagnosis can lead to a letter, that leads to hormones, that leads to a year rlt, that leads to surgery.
Bigenderists dont need letters, hormones, srs, or anything like that. None that I know of at least.
To other transgender people, its worthless. Even the TV or CD, except to compare to TS. And even then there is no clear cut definitions citing exact circumstances. The leave open ended things like the NOS.
QuoteGIDNOS
And, to accommodate anyone who does not meet the specific sub-classification criteria, the DSM-IV has a "catch-all" classification:
302.6 Gender Identity Disorder Not Otherwise Specified (GIDNOS)
As for TS, it just comes down to 5 main things. Persistence of desire, need to pass, desire to live as, conviction, and desire to get rid of birth characteristics.
QuoteIn adolescents and adults, the disturbance is manifested by symptoms such as
A. stated desire to be the other sex,
frequent passing as the other sex,
desire to live or be treated as the other sex,
or the conviction that he or she has the typical feelings and reactions of the other sex.
B. preoccupation with getting rid of primary and secondary sex characteristics
DSM is mainly a TS topic.
About topics not included. Well what does the DSM say about it?
QuoteQ: What does it mean if a diagnosis is not included in the DSM?
A: It only means that, as of 1994, there was not sufficient data to justify its inclusion in the DSM-IV. Just because a category is not included in DSM-IV does not necessarily mean that it is invalid, or not worthy of being a focus of research or treatment.
QuoteAs the DSM has become increasingly more informed by research, so has the basis for inclusion of new categories in the DSM. As stated above, originally categories were included because they were felt to represent what psychiatrists were treating. In later editions of the DSM (DSM-III-R and DSM-IV), new categories were only considered for inclusion if there was significant data available to allow critical consideration of the relevant merits and risks of inclusion. In contrast, some categories that date back to older editions of the DSM may have relatively little empirical data. Thus, because the data requirement for consideration of new categories has become more stringent, some proposed categories that were ultimately rejected may have had more data available than grandfathered categories already in the DSM.
http://dsmivtr.org/2-1faqs.cfm
Thanks for the info KK ;D Don't forget to breathe though :P
Also, I do feel like suggesting to add this thread to the FAQ because if the dice does continue to roll like this, and individuals do dare to impose questions on one another (eh roleplay???) then this could turn into quite a source for information.
So people, let's get to work! 8) Think about possible questions and throw them at someone (whoever)!
.... Gah I love being moronic!
Androgynes don't need to steenking DSM. >:D
to be perfectly honest, people are perfectly able to decide how they want to live and who they want to be. The only time I would think any kind of professional person need be involved is when the person desires surgery. I know that some people think even that is unnecessary, but I prefer to stay on the safe side and encourage people to work with designated professionals.
Although, if I decide on an orchi, I don't think I should need somebody's approval. But, if I were just a confused person going through a bad time, I would appreciate some guidance. How do I prove that I'm not confused? ???
Although there's no official DSM diagnosis for androgyne, we could be included in TS non-op category. Unfortunately, as I understand it, if an androgyne desires surgery or hrt, zie would still need to find a therapist to sign for that.
Zythyra
Ah, crud.
Don't you think being in the DSM pathologizes androgyny? I suppose it might seem to give a ring of legitmacy to have it listed as a condition, but doctors tend to conflate variations from the norm with illness. For example, I'm rather flat-footed and had to wear goofy orthopedic shoes as a kid. I have absolutely no trouble walking, but it was decided it was unhealthy. Why? Because most people have higher arches than I do. Of course, it's a ridiculous example, but I'd hate to have people thinking they have some authority backing them when they label us crazy or perverts.
QuoteDon't you think being in the DSM pathologizes androgyny?
Yes, absolutely. I'm not advocating that androgynes be included in the DSM, I have no wish for my gender identity (or lack thereof) to be considered mental illness. Just pointing out that if we wish HRT or surgery, we need to go through the same procedures as TS, or try to find medical professionals who will treat us regardless of a diagnosis.
Zythyra
Believe me, I understand its actually pretty easy for someone to conjure up some sort of doubt about being bigendered or "two spirited" because for the most part its near impossible for someone else to observe. People don't react well to what they can't really explain or see. Where such a poll to form, I doubt theres any chance it would change my resolve so again I'll reach back where those who reach for me that choose to try to understand. There will always be people (most likely a lot of people) that will never choose to understand or accept people like me but that doesn't make me less valid in my eyes. I am who I am and if thats Marq and Mia then thats who I'll always be. No matter how personal the poll's target was, I'll still react the same way, those who choose to listen are going to hear me.
So I say let them throw around whatever opinions they want to make themselves feel comfortable, I'm comfortable already with who I am. Thats not something that can be taken away.
Marq and Mia
I wish it had been possible to answer twice. I believe that "androgyne" is a valid form of gender identity. There are many androgynes who will stay that way their whole life and not wish to be either male or female. But I think that some androgynes are in that place to work out their gender dysphoria. For a time, I considered myself "above gender" (I was about fourteen), but was relentlessly pulled toward the male side. Now I'm a happy FTM, and I'm sure that others have felt the same.
So I wouldn't put all "androgynes" in the category of "true androgyne," but I recognize that it is a valid form of gender expression and that many are very happy being neither gender.
I'd avoided responding to this, but I wanted to... I've been drawn to it for a bit.
I was hurt by that poll. Not by the numbers of people who didn't see us as valid. I was hurt by the fact that they wouldn't elaborate or give reasons. There was one person in particular, but there was a general trend of saying "Because I think so."
I think that's the most hurtful thing.
I know that many people don't see my gender identity as valid. But I don't understand WHY. I don't understand why the world lives in an unworkable binary--and it is unworkable. Nature does not contain any true binaries. They all have some level of mutation in them. I can't think of a single binary other than "exists" or "does not exist."
Binaries are man made and I don't understand why we worship them so.
I just don't get it. Nature is not binary. We are part of nature. Why do we try to fit into a binary?
And no one will tell me why this binary is so bloody important. No one will tell me why they see it as the only possibility.
They all just seem to say "Cause I said so."
And I just want to know why.
Quote from: Tay on September 02, 2007, 12:33:13 AM
I'd avoided responding to this, but I wanted to... I've been drawn to it for a bit.
I was hurt by that poll. Not by the numbers of people who didn't see us as valid. I was hurt by the fact that they wouldn't elaborate or give reasons. There was one person in particular, but there was a general trend of saying "Because I think so."
I think that's the most hurtful thing.
I know that many people don't see my gender identity as valid. But I don't understand WHY. I don't understand why the world lives in an unworkable binary--and it is unworkable. Nature does not contain any true binaries. They all have some level of mutation in them. I can't think of a single binary other than "exists" or "does not exist."
Binaries are man made and I don't understand why we worship them so.
I just don't get it. Nature is not binary. We are part of nature. Why do we try to fit into a binary?
And no one will tell me why this binary is so bloody important. No one will tell me why they see it as the only possibility.
They all just seem to say "Cause I said so."
And I just want to know why.
I'd be interested to know why, too. There've been gender variant people throughout the ages. And no anamoly is absolute. Look at the many types of intersexed people.
Maybe androgynes developed from the same cause of transsexuals, with a mind imprint that doesn't match their sex.
Just that the abnormality was more severe in the transsexual - causing their sex to be at the North Pole, and their gender at the South Pole, whereas androgynes are at the equator.
androgyn is da same as be trans. its another gender. dont got no problems with nobody that want to be seen as androgyns we gotta be together on this if we wanna get acceptence by society.
Quotewe gotta be together on this if we wanna get acceptence by society.
Well spoken Chris... We're all minorities (LGBTQetc).. we really need to be a united front if we want the rest of the world to accept... How can we expect "them" to accept us if "we" can't even accept us.
Quote from: Alison on September 02, 2007, 04:16:52 AM
Quotewe gotta be together on this if we wanna get acceptence by society.
Well spoken Chris... We're all minorities (LGBTQetc).. we really need to be a united front if we want the rest of the world to accept... How can we expect "them" to accept us if "we" can't even accept us.
I agree 100%. We should celebrate our differences and stay united because when it comes to the crunch, the majority always rules. :)
buttercup :)
Quote from: Tay on September 02, 2007, 12:33:13 AM
I'd avoided responding to this, but I wanted to... I've been drawn to it for a bit.
I was hurt by that poll. Not by the numbers of people who didn't see us as valid. I was hurt by the fact that they wouldn't elaborate or give reasons. There was one person in particular, but there was a general trend of saying "Because I think so."
I think that's the most hurtful thing.
I know that many people don't see my gender identity as valid. But I don't understand WHY. I don't understand why the world lives in an unworkable binary--and it is unworkable. Nature does not contain any true binaries. They all have some level of mutation in them. I can't think of a single binary other than "exists" or "does not exist."
Binaries are man made and I don't understand why we worship them so.
I just don't get it. Nature is not binary. We are part of nature. Why do we try to fit into a binary?
And no one will tell me why this binary is so bloody important. No one will tell me why they see it as the only possibility.
They all just seem to say "Cause I said so."
And I just want to know why.
Tay,
I agree with you 100%. I also wished to hear elaboration regarding their reasons, yet they didn't appear to want to engage in dialog. That silence is more hurtful than someone telling you why. It's as if they've slammed the door in your face. If someone is willing to discuss it with us, that's a gesture of willingness to get to know us. If we all listen to each other then we can start to understand each other. Of course, they'd be equally hurt by someone telling them that being TS didn't exist.
My opinion is that the people who don't believe that we exist are highly invested in the binary. They NEED the binary to exist, without it, their existence is brought into question. In other threads we've heard some people say how they feel they are 100% the gender/sex that they are. They don't want to be seen as anything less than their target gender, I can respect that. But we've also heard strict adherence and policing of binary gender roles, and dissing of people who "don't pass".
I think that the idea that there might be an in between must be very scary to them, especially since they've internalized societal pressures that anything outside the binary, or other, is considered to be less than the "real" thing. Our existence brings everything into question that they hold as absolute. They're truly scared of the possibility of variation, and thus have a hard time accepting us or wanting to engage in dialog. In many ways, we are pioneers, exploring the outreaches of gender. Everyone around us is sure that if we go far enough out there beyond binary gender, we're going to fall off the edge of the world. :icon_help: They don't want to follow us into the raging sea. ::)
Well, there's my 2 cents on the subject, whether or not anyone wanted to hear it. ;D
Zythyra
I think Zythara is hitting at the root of the issue here. This comes up quite a lot actually in some of the topics in the transexual sections. An investment into as clear cut a binary gender model as possible helps to keep the more insecure about their journey from questioning themselves. If the definitions start to blur because theres people like us outside their lines, then the solid structure they rely on is found to be built upon sand.
What can you do though? We should extend our hands to those that wish to understand. Some people won't ever come around but that applies to everything.
Power to our peoples!!
Marq and Mia
QuoteWhat can you do though? We should extend our hands to those that wish to understand.
Indeed, we should reach out to anyone who expresses interest in understanding us. And live our lives openly, demonstrating by our actions that the edge of the cliff really isn't so scary... oooops, I slipped, oh no, I'm meltinnnnnnng :icon_help:
zythyra
Just because bisexuals exist doesn't mean that a man is any less straight or any more straight. Just because bisexuals exist doesn't mean a man is any less gay or any more gay.
Why invest yourself in something that doesn't make sense? You're setting your self up for failure and you're creating the cliff for people who cannot be invested in that something to fall off.
For me, the binary means either complete self-repression or death. I just can't see why they would have to be any more invested in a binary than homo or heterosexuals. And homo and heterosexuals don't all (or even mostly) deny the existence of bisexuals.
I want the answers in their own words--not our guesses as to what their answers are. I find it unfair that I don't get that.
Quote from: Tay on September 02, 2007, 02:53:16 PM
Just because bisexuals exist doesn't mean that a man is any less straight or any more straight. Just because bisexuals exist doesn't mean a man is any less gay or any more gay.
Why invest yourself in something that doesn't make sense? You're setting your self up for failure and you're creating the cliff for people who cannot be invested in that something to fall off.
For me, the binary means either complete self-repression or death. I just can't see why they would have to be any more invested in a binary than homo or heterosexuals. And homo and heterosexuals don't all (or even mostly) deny the existence of bisexuals.
I want the answers in their own words--not our guesses as to what their answers are. I find it unfair that I don't get that.
Me too, young one. For a while I was hurt, but I've been distracted lately.
I have an even more bizarre idea that I am going to start a thread on.
By the way, everybody, don't worry. When Z fell off the cliff I was able to save hir sandwich! :) and we all get to split hir portion of dessert.
QuoteBy the way, everybody, don't worry. When Z fell off the cliff I was able to save hir sandwich! Smiley and we all get to split hir portion of dessert.
Hold on, I can deal with you eating my sandwich, but my dessert... that's sacrilege! :eusa_naughty:
Z
I agree with Zythra that the reason many others do not accept the existence of androgyny as anything other than a temporary confusion on the way to discovering one's "true" gender is that these people have a lot tied up in gender essentialism. Unfortunately we all have a tendency to judge reality based on our own individual experiences. If one's experience is tied to a single gender identity, then it is just obvious to that person that gender must be bipolar. If all your life you are convinced that your are "really" a man or a woman despite what your anatomy proclaims you to be, then you are also convinced that the differences between being male and being female must be either/or. For those of us who experience in our own lives the ambiguity of gender, it is "obvious" that gender is not merely bipolar. For those who do not share our experience, it is just as obvious that gender is bipolar.
Nature does have a tendency to gender dimorphism. Those of us who are androgynes are exceptions. We are a minority, not the norm. Because we are exceptional it is difficult for others who do not share our experience to recognize us.
Quote from: Tay on September 02, 2007, 02:53:16 PM
I just can't see why they would have to be any more invested in a binary than homo or heterosexuals. And homo and heterosexuals don't all (or even mostly) deny the existence of bisexuals.
I don't think the cases are completely similar. For most monosexuals ( :) ), it is completely understandable that one can be attracted to the same sex or the opposite sex, and from that it is a small step to realising that one can be attracted to both. Of course, there is the religious fringe for whom homosexuality is evil: for those, acknowledging the existence of bisexuality would mean leaving people like Senator Craig on the wrong side of the fence, but as long as there are only two labels to choose from, such people are happily married heterosexuals.
The case of the transsexual extremists (so to speak) is slightly different. They have gone through a very deep crisis, typically ending in a pretty hard transition. If gender is not binary, there is a very serious doubt as to whether that crisis could have been avoided. They lost everything (or most things) important to them in order to be the correct gender; doubting gender would mean that they just lost that, too. As a consequence, they
must believe in the binary, and also in the inevitability of transition. Or at least, that's how I've been able to view this.
Quote from: y2gender on September 02, 2007, 06:09:01 PM
QuoteBy the way, everybody, don't worry. When Z fell off the cliff I was able to save hir sandwich! Smiley and we all get to split hir portion of dessert.
Hold on, I can deal with you eating my sandwich, but my dessert... that's sacrilege! :eusa_naughty:
All right, we'll throw some of the chocolate down the cliff as a sacrifice to your spirit.
Nfr
QuoteAll right, we'll throw some of the chocolate down the cliff as a sacrifice to your spirit.
Ummmm, gee, thanks :P
Z
I've always thought that humankind's fondness of binaries were due to the big binary. Life or Death.
That comes down to "exists" or "does not exist."
Life either exists or does not. The absence of life is death.
I think binaries come down to simplistic categorisation.
Regardless of whether they work.
Quote from: Tay on September 03, 2007, 01:10:40 PM
That comes down to "exists" or "does not exist."
Life either exists or does not. The absence of life is death.
I think binaries come down to simplistic categorisation.
Regardless of whether they work.
agreed.
There are just two kinds of people--those who think there are two kinds of people and those who don't. >:D
Quote from: Louise on September 07, 2007, 04:16:43 PM
There are just two kinds of people--those who think there are two kinds of people and those who don't. >:D
good one, Louise. :)
Posted on: September 07, 2007, 10:17:20 PM
Hi,
I went and updated the little charty thing here based on the slightly different stats.
As of 9/20/07Question: Do FtM's & MtF's think androgynes are wierd or crazy? (Be Honest)
Androgynes need not respond.
| Question | # of votes | % of votes |
| I accept Androgyne as a gender alternative. | 29 | 49.2% |
| I don't really accept Androgyne as a gender alternative | 8 | 13.6% |
| It's a form of gender expression, not a gender identity. | 7 | 11.9% |
| Don't understand/know enough about it to have an opinion. | 4 | 6.8% |
| I really just think it's a phase. | 3 | 5.1% |
| You people are deranged. Please leave me alone. | 3 | 5.1% |
| Undecided | 2 | 3.4% |
| I somewhat believe it's a valid gender identity / don't know for sure | 3 | 5.1% |
Total Voters: 59
The poll at
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,17281.0/viewResults.html (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,17281.0/viewResults.html)
says there were 55 voters but the votes add up to 59. I'm not trying to mess with anyone. I don't get it.
the percentages add up to 100.2%
Hmmmmm,
I just realized that some of the options above can be combined. So I'm going to try that:
| Question | # of votes | % of votes |
| I accept Androgyne as a gender alternative. | 29 | 49.2% |
I don't really accept Androgyne as a gender alternative
It's a form of gender expression, not a gender identity.
I really just think it's a phase. | 18 | 30.6% |
| You people are deranged. Please leave me alone. | 3 | 5.1% |
Don't understand/know enough about it to have an opinion.
Undecided
I somewhat believe it's a valid gender identity/don't know for sure | 9 | 15.3% |
I'm not trying to be funny, I just thought that a couple of categories amounted to the same thing like
no opinion /
undecided / and
not knowing for sure mean about the same thing.