I know this is probably an obvious question, but I'm still curious about it. After starting to come to terms with my transgender feelings, I noticed something started happening immediately. Every time I see a woman now, I feel incredibly jealous. Something inside me just gets set off, and I start getting really, really upset. Did anyone else experience this? Is it normal to suddenly feel such intense jealousy so suddenly?
Well, since we're all transgender folks here, I probably should refrain from using the word "normal", but what you're feeling is very, very common. I feel the same way, and I've been on hrt for two years now. I can't tell you if it goes away, but I can say that you're not alone in feeling this way.
Quote from: JynxRosalie on February 02, 2015, 09:24:13 PM
I know this is probably an obvious question, but I'm still curious about it. After starting to come to terms with my transgender feelings, I noticed something started happening immediately. Every time I see a woman now, I feel incredibly jealous. Something inside me just gets set off, and I start getting really, really upset. Did anyone else experience this? Is it normal to suddenly feel such intense jealousy so suddenly?
Yes hon this is one of the symptoms of gender dysphoria, and yes it is normal for those with gender dysphoria to experience.
At one point I would break down and start to cry when I saw cis women going about their daily lives. It drove me to transition and now that I'm transitioning I don't get these feelings much anymore. When I look at myself slowly yet rapidly feminizing every day I become very excited and happy. I know one day soon I will be full time and leave my male self behind and finally live the way I was supposed to.
I feel the same way. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one. And usually I'm not a jealous person.
We cannot help but feel jealous of our cis sisters as we try to emulate their lives. However, regardless of what sex/gender you were assigned to at birth or whatever stage of transition you are in makes you no less of a woman than what you see around you.
We (women) come in all different shapes and size - You are a woman to us and that's all that matters.
Love,
April
I felt that way too and to be completely honest, I still feel that way sometime. I can't help but feel jealous of cis woman when I see them. It's not a bad type of jealousy where I secretly hate them, more like jealous in a way that I envy them and wish I was born as a Cis woman.
Me too, however I always have been very envious of CIS women looks... slowly getting there and still feel envious and may still be true after transition... after all, they have been there for life, I am like... starting my journey (although 10 years into it :-\ (late starter))
L Katy
A little hint....CIS girls are very envious/jealous of other girls as well! We are perhaps just a little late to the game ;)
Envy hits me pretty hard when I see a girl with a youthful, extremely pretty face, I just do a huge "sigh" and frowny face and try and talk myself into being happy with what I've got.
The occasional compliment is like gold though! Like when my spouse says she would give anything to have my long legs and flatter tummy than her.
Yeah, this all makes sense to me. I have a girlfriend (online) who has seen how I look, and she tells me not to feel jealous and that no matter how I look she loves me. That makes me feel pretty good, however no matter how many times she says that, I still get a little upset when I see how certain women look or see cute outfits and such. I don't want to be envious...I just am. I can't help it.
Quote from: Michelle G on February 03, 2015, 02:11:02 AM
A little hint....CIS girls are very envious/jealous of other girls as well! We are perhaps just a little late to the game ;)
Envy hits me pretty hard when I see a girl with a youthful, extremely pretty face, I just do a huge "sigh" and frowny face and try and talk myself into being happy with what I've got.
The occasional compliment is like gold though! Like when my spouse says she would give anything to have my long legs and flatter tummy than her.
First point is so true Michelle
I find the youthfulness quite a bit tougher as I have wasted decades through fear and ignorance... However getting there now and may well try (if financially able to) ways to reduce the impact of age???
L Katy
I posted this in another thread ages ago but it bears repeating...
I had this problem for many years, and if know many if us likewise often have intense feelings of jealousy towards cis people of our identified gender...during my first transition attempt I spent a whole bus trip home crying because I "wasn't as pretty as the beautiful women on the bus". Ugh. Anyway, I have worked through my envy and jealousy issues over the last twenty or so years. I have to say I don't envy anyone for their lives anymore, not for a few years anyway. I read this article a few weeks back and it gave me an angle on jealousy that I think I've been utilising but without realising it.
-------------
4 Difficult Ways to Simplify Your Life (That Are Worth It) (http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-difficult-ways-to-simplify-your-life-that-are-worth-it/) (by Daniel O'Brien/ on Cracked) - Point #3: You Have to Be Jealous of Everything
"If you choose to be jealous of someone, you have to be jealous of everything." It sounds simple, and maybe you had that thought before, but you're much smarter than me. I'd never considered it, but it's important. The times that I'd been jealous, I'd been jealous of an opportunity that another person got. Or I'd been jealous of someone else's relationship. Or I'd been jealous of someone else's height, or rent, or patience, or ability to grow substantial facial hair, or any other damn thing. But you can't do that. You can't pick one thing to be jealous of. If you're going to be jealous of someone's nice car, you have to be jealous of everything else in that person's life. Are they living in a terrible apartment in a bad part of town to be able to pay for that car? Then you have to be jealous of that, too. Are they insecure enough that they think they need a nice car in order to be liked? Then you have to be jealous of that, too. It's not a straight trade. You don't get to trade your shortcomings for someone else's best assets. It's a package deal. It's the full suite, or it's nothing.
-------------------
Many people may seem to be having "great lives" because they are cis, but a lot of that is the very tip of a not so great iceberg. For trans women, the pretty cis woman you are jealous of might have incredible insecurities about her appearance, eating disorders, period cramps, a family history of breast cancer, candida/thrush, had a miscarriage and/or a violent unappreciative boyfriend, etc - can you be jealous of any or all of that too?
I just felt that I need to be clear in why I sometimes respond the way I do... And I sort of agree and understand the comments others have made on the subjects of passing, FFS and other perfecting threads; I think that there is a fine line between Jealousy and Envy... Jealousy tends to be all consuming, where envy is more of "I wish" which is where I am, because of my age and because of wasted years...
The comment on "always was"... Was based on the fact that I so wanted to be female through all those dark years (from 4 or 5). I am now 61 and have hidden, through fear, understanding and available options until around 15 years or so ago...
So when I understood I planned on how to embark on my journey, so now rather than being envious of something I could not be, I am envious of the time lost and the fact I should of been born female... Therefore I want to be as womanly as possible.
We all deal with our Dysphoria in different ways, mine is this way... It's not distructive just "I wish" it is not consuming me in any way shape or form. But as a female we all want to look better and feel good about ourselves, regardless of born gender.
As I have stated before I am a bit of a perfectionist and am a bit of a compulsive obsessive person...
But I do beleive some would burn up so much energy in jealousy or envy, more the former, the point made certainly is valid!
L Katy :-*
I can be very jealous at times, wishing I had some of the features a real female has. But all I can do is work with what I have and learn from observing the real thing.
I used to be extremly jealous since very early childhood, basically since I can remember. At some point during transition, I just wasn't anymore. I would still feel a little jealous when I see a dropdead gorgeous girl, with a perfect body I can never have, because I didn't start with hormones before the age of 11 or 12 ... But I'm shure most cis women younger or older get a little jealous sometimes. I do get jealous in a strange way when I see a pregnant woman.. that's one thing I'll have to deal with probably for quite some time. I suspect it will get worse when I'll be in my 30s
I have had the same feelings and they hit me hard, like nuclear bomb to the heart hard a few weeks ago. It almost undid me completely and I was on edge and tearful the rest of the night.
Had I been home and not going out with friends I shudder to think of what I might have done to myself.
My earliest memories were being envious of girls in my class.
I am from time to time envious of another woman, however as my transition has progressed the feelings have lessened dramatically for me.
Entertaining jealousy will just eat you up alive, as Katrina says it really uses a lot of mental and emotional energy. Best to move on... and as Hikari so rightly notes, as your transition progresses it lessens anyway.
yuuuup :(
just like you, it only started after i accepted that im trans
I know I might get some flack for saying this but I'd rather channel my energy on how I can improve myself and be a better version of myself every single day.
I still think having a good and kind heart makes a woman beautiful. It makes her glow and stand out.
No amount of make up can mask an ugly heart -Kevyn Aucoin.
Quote from: carmenkate on February 03, 2015, 07:17:34 PM
I know I might get some flack for saying this but I'd rather channel my energy on how I can improve myself and be a better version of myself every single day.
I still think having a good and kind heart makes a woman beautiful. It makes her glow and stand out.
No amount of make up can mask an ugly heart -Kevyn Aucoin.
I second that, much better way of burning up your energy :-*
L Katy
I'm usually jealous of women being able to wear some nice boots or things about their body , such as having wide hips or a nice curvy shape. Although this is true, I usually feel pretty good about my own body. I think that dysphoria and jealousy are normal and it does help one validate with oneself that you are transgender, it is bad to get carried away with it, especially with things that cannot be easily changed.
I know that I shouldn't be so jealous, and I try not to. Honestly, my biggest source of jealousy probably stems from me being stuck in a state where I can't even explore the possibility of transitioning yet, and so my mind just goes over how much I want to and how great it would be over and over. And in that state of mind, seeing other women just gets to me...
I live in the country where transitioning isn't easy and usually is very, very slow. I used to be angry at system and jealous at men around, but now I just observe, I study what makes man a man, and try to apply it on myself. A small change can be very significant, I saw some guys who transitioned without T and look pretty good.
CIS girls do the same thing with other cis girls that have features they admire and feel they will never attain. My wife of 24 years has long been that way. She is taller than most women, including me. She absolutely hates it when I just go up to the rack and find cute clothes that fit. I think she has the same sort of jealousy mentioned in the original post. She will never have a petite, stereotypical cute feminine size (in her mind). We both will see a girl that has features we both admire and look at each other and say the same thing: "B!@ch!" Of course we do not dislike that girl at all, but we get that jealous feeling and I think it is normal for all girls. Just that some are jealous of other girls for different reasons and attributes. There are plenty of cis girls I know that I am not at all jealous of....
I get jealous of cis-women, I also get a little jealous of other trans-women who are beautiful and have had successful transitions. I try not spend too much time thinking about because I usually end up more depressed.
I'm so over it. I admit I had it pretty bad toward the end of dude days, but I realize now that jealousy is as pointless as the "what if" game.
"Oooh, she's got great hair/legs/body/blah blah blah. I'll never have that and I wish I could trade places with her right now." *wallows in it*
But the thing is that I'm probably a lot smarter, wiser, more talented and funnier. I have a great wife, family and friends that I would not trade for anything. I live in a nice house and am finally financially secure. My life has no more unpleasant drama in it. Apart from that whole unfortunate plumbing issue, my life is pretty awesome now. And hell, I'm about ready to have that outdoor plumbing put back indoors where it belongs.
Those women are probably more jealous of me now than I ever was of them.
I'm good.
I sometimes get jealous of trans-women. Like i'll see a trans-woman who has had a successful transition and think, "Why can't I be pretty like her?"
I'm not sure if this but I'll try the discussion.
Why are people jealous? It is a very common human trait, I think it is even commented on in various holy books as being 'sinful' whatever that means. But when you think about it. Jealousy in internalized hatred. There is something we hate about ourselves that someone else has and we want it. That something can be ethereal, looks, money, friends; and other things such as freedom. self expression, friendship.
Now let us look at our trans*community. Lets look at some positive things. You are all members of a family, a community here of some 15,000 people. You are accepted and as long as basic civility is followed, you can discuss anything, ask for help about anything, cry, laugh: talk freely about what concerns you. Most of the time you will get a reply, sometimes heaps, sometimes a few. But you are family; we all feel alone at times but to be honest when you are alone and post here someone will reach out.
Now look at our haters. People stuck in a rigid society where differences are not accepted, differences are insulted and vilified. Freedom is not encouraged, indeed it is actively inhibited.
Take this for example: if a member posts a pic or whatever saying I like my green hair, short skirt, beard and boots what do you think? We accept and ask questions and learn. Try doing that in mainstream society!!
We get jealous that cisgender people are accepted etc. But are they? They are forced into uniformity, to never express themselves.
So when we feel jealous of cis people what are we jealous off? Being accepted in society? Well do you really want to be a member of that society?
Yes we want acceptance, but on our terms please. Yes we want health care, but too be honest that in at least USA is not really a trans*issue. It is a political issue for all. We want equal work opportunity; don't all minorities? We want freedom of education for our trans*kids; I want equal education for ALL children. We want to stop violence against our community; I want violence against ALL women stopped.
All of these are political issues, so why and where does jealousy come in? If it is political we can change it. No matter how hard that is.
Jealousy of things we cannot have: I would have loved to have carried children, I would have loved to have a man and a family, even if my children had been adopted and not mine by birth. I couldn't; I cannot. Jealousy of this is futile and self destructive.
In this journey we have choices, most of them are tough ones. In my mind jealousy does not help us in anyway.
Sorry, badly written but some thoughts I wanted to try out.
Cindy
(my personal comments only)
That makes sense. My jealousy generally stems from hating my current body, and seeing what I'd like to be, but can't have. I've slowly been sinking lower and lower on the self image scale lately. At first, when I accepted I wanted to be a woman, I pulled my hair straight and felt really good about how feminine it looked. Lately, however, I find it harder to see that part of me in the mirror...so when I see women I get....upset.
I always wondered if that intense jealousy I felt was common. I guess it is :P It still kinda sucks though, and I feel the same jealousy when seeing the amazing timelines of beautiful transwomen who start off looking manly like me but end up so beautiful and feminine.
I'm never jealous, I'm frequently inspired!
It seems to me that jealousy is only nasty if it accompanied by the dismissal of oneself, or the dismissal of another. The dismissal of oneself in that, you see a trait, accomplishment, or possession that you have decided is impossible for you. Dismissal of another in the sense that you see their trait, accomplishment, or possession as undeserved, or them being unworthy, or having gotten it through a more expedient route than you even could (*pouty face*). One makes you feel bad about yourself, and the other makes you feel bad about someone else.
There's a lot of inspiring people out there.
Revisiting this;
Going out in public and finally being a woman full time almost everywhere makes me jealous of some women. Those who are pretty and "pass" effortlessly especially. Those who are pregnant too. I love my kids a lot. I wish I had carried them. :( they've been calling me mommy daddy for as long as I remember except for my son. It feels nice when they stop at the "mommy" part. At the same time I don't want to take away what they have with their mom.
Haha that was one of the ways I realized I was in need of transitioning: whenever I saw a beautiful woman, I would rarely think I wanted to sleep with her first, rather I wanted much more intensely to BE her. And of course THEN sleep with her... but I'm a little funny like that. :P
Women feel envious of each other all the time, it's totally normal but dysphoria sure amplifies it. It will get better as you become more comfortable with yourself. It's bad news to compare yourself to other people, because they're not you. :)
I felt that way all my life until now.
Transition cured me.
Dodie
Honestly? Yes, at first especially I did at times get rather jealous... Not so much due to how they looked , but rather how they where treated better by strangers in general when we went out because of how they looked... (Getting invited to drinks, or success rate when asking a stranger for a cigarette in the street... Etc...)
Then I started to focus on my strong points instead.... I'm the slimmest among my friends and most other girls I've seen, have big pretty eyes that always get a lot of attention, and except for my genitals I have a great body.... I mean, I've never said I was trans in a few 'dating' sites where I posted very revealing (almost-nude) pics which got a LOT of attention... (Ego boost, yay!)
My point? Instead of looking at what others have 'better' than you... Look at what you have 'better' than others...
PS: I'm an adult that knows what she's doing and I'm also a bit crazy, hence the pics on that site... I'm not suggesting anyone else do it... Seriously, don't want to be told off for being a bad influence :P
I was always more jealous of all the girl stuff cis women get to do. Even when I would see two of my female co workers going off together chatting, I'd think "why am I not included?" And I'd get so sad. But taking this step is how I may finally be let in on the chat, so... Sure the I wish game is being played out in my head as far as my body is concerned and I look all around me at the women of every stripe and shape, I wish I had elements of all of them but what can I do. I'm pretty happy and hopefull with what I have got. A cis friend and I were talking last night, (yay chat time) I mentioned my brow ridge and she pointed out that her and most of her sisters have significant brow ridges. She also expressed, for the second time in a week, that she is a bit jealous of my body. We are close to the same height but she's a little heavy and couldn't even hope to fit in what fits me. Body jealousy does make me feel more like the woman I am because it puts me right there in the conversation. It is something women share!
You wouldn't want to be the cold hearted bitch who thinks she's perfect and looks down on the other ladies would you? I'd rather get to bitch about her to my girlfriends than feel left out for one more day!
Quote from: Cindy on March 06, 2015, 01:28:01 AM
...Now let us look at our trans*community. Lets look at some positive things. You are all members of a family, a community here of some 15,000 people. You are accepted and as long as basic civility is followed, you can discuss anything, ask for help about anything, cry, laugh: talk freely about what concerns you. Most of the time you will get a reply, sometimes heaps, sometimes a few. But you are family; we all feel alone at times but to be honest when you are alone and post here someone will reach out.
Now look at our haters. People stuck in a rigid society where differences are not accepted, differences are insulted and vilified. Freedom is not encouraged, indeed it is actively inhibited.
Take this for example: if a member posts a pic or whatever saying I like my green hair, short skirt, beard and boots what do you think? We accept and ask questions and learn. Try doing that in mainstream society!!
We get jealous that cisgender people are accepted etc. But are they? They are forced into uniformity, to never express themselves.
So when we feel jealous of cis people what are we jealous off? Being accepted in society? Well do you really want to be a member of that society?
Yes we want acceptance, but on our terms please. Yes we want health care, but too be honest that in at least USA is not really a trans*issue. It is a political issue for all. We want equal work opportunity; don't all minorities? We want freedom of education for our trans*kids; I want equal education for ALL children. We want to stop violence against our community; I want violence against ALL women stopped.
...Jealousy of things we cannot have: I would have loved to have carried children, I would have loved to have a man and a family, even if my children had been adopted and not mine by birth. I couldn't; I cannot. Jealousy of this is futile and self destructive.
I love this, so wise...
Quote from: Cindy on March 06, 2015, 01:28:01 AM
I'm not sure if this but I'll try the discussion.
Why are people jealous? It is a very common human trait, I think it is even commented on in various holy books as being 'sinful' whatever that means. But when you think about it. Jealousy in internalized hatred. There is something we hate about ourselves that someone else has and we want it. That something can be ethereal, looks, money, friends; and other things such as freedom. self expression, friendship.
Now let us look at our trans*community. Lets look at some positive things. You are all members of a family, a community here of some 15,000 people. You are accepted and as long as basic civility is followed, you can discuss anything, ask for help about anything, cry, laugh: talk freely about what concerns you. Most of the time you will get a reply, sometimes heaps, sometimes a few. But you are family; we all feel alone at times but to be honest when you are alone and post here someone will reach out.
Now look at our haters. People stuck in a rigid society where differences are not accepted, differences are insulted and vilified. Freedom is not encouraged, indeed it is actively inhibited.
Take this for example: if a member posts a pic or whatever saying I like my green hair, short skirt, beard and boots what do you think? We accept and ask questions and learn. Try doing that in mainstream society!!
We get jealous that cisgender people are accepted etc. But are they? They are forced into uniformity, to never express themselves.
So when we feel jealous of cis people what are we jealous off? Being accepted in society? Well do you really want to be a member of that society?
Yes we want acceptance, but on our terms please. Yes we want health care, but too be honest that in at least USA is not really a trans*issue. It is a political issue for all. We want equal work opportunity; don't all minorities? We want freedom of education for our trans*kids; I want equal education for ALL children. We want to stop violence against our community; I want violence against ALL women stopped.
All of these are political issues, so why and where does jealousy come in? If it is political we can change it. No matter how hard that is.
Jealousy of things we cannot have: I would have loved to have carried children, I would have loved to have a man and a family, even if my children had been adopted and not mine by birth. I couldn't; I cannot. Jealousy of this is futile and self destructive.
In this journey we have choices, most of them are tough ones. In my mind jealousy does not help us in anyway.
Sorry, badly written but some thoughts I wanted to try out.
Cindy
(my personal comments only)
Aaaaaaaaaactuallllyyyyyyyyyy........
I'm not allowed to share links as far as I recall so I'm not going to bother looking for the articles... But you should be able to find them without a problem on Google...
Yes, we can... Or at least, may be able to have kids in the near future... Been hearing a lot about uterus transplantations, which added to stem-cell aided genital 'regeneration'... Makes it a rather likely future.... Both articles (about both kinds of 'surgeries') actually had an ending quote on how this could potentially help us TS women potentially get pregnant and give birth...
The question is... Once this is available in the mainstream market.... How much will it cost? Will there be a chance it'll be covered by public health care?
(I'm not a scientist and read these articles a while ago, so my way of explaining and terminology may be very off... Sorreh ._.)
I definitely wouldn't want to be that kind of person! :o
Honestly, the only reason I feel this way is because I'm stuck in a place where I can't do anything to start feminizing myself. I can't see a counselor or anything because I would not feel okay looking into that while I live with my family, and wearing female clothing would be out of the question. So, since I can't do anything to make my body feel more like the woman my mind sees, I channel that in the only way that I can: online. So when I see women (heck even hyper feminine men that can totally pass as women) I get upset. Not the nasty, hateful towards others kind of upset. Just more of a....I wish I could have this in my life upset.
YES! Every time I would see a male on television or just walking past me, I'd get so jealous, wanting a flat chest, facial hair, etc. Some days I can't even concentrate in school because I'm looking at the guys in the class and wanting to be like them. It's so frustrating!
Dean
So amazing the contrast between mtf and ftm
Now that I am cured I see men and think how cool it would be to be a dude but I am not.
I love having a chest and like my body but makeup and hair takes so much time
Good luck with ur transition kiddo
Quote from: DeanJulian on March 06, 2015, 01:53:48 PM
Some days I can't even concentrate in school because I'm looking at the guys in the class and wanting to be like them. It's so frustrating!
I had to go to an all boys school - I know you'd probably think that was awesome, I didn't think so at the time. But I have to say, on reflection I think going to a co-ed school where there were female students as well probably would have sent me into the pits of despair too... being so near to girls and feeling that I couldn't be one of them would have not been fun at all.
I don't think jealousy quite describes it...I tend to lash out at the ciswomen in my life sometimes. When they're trying to console me during a bad bout of dysphoria-induced depression, I wind up saying things like "You wouldn't know! You're happy with your body!" or "Easy for you to say! You don't have to live with this like I do!"...
...thankfully, I have some really freakin' awesome friends. It just bounces right off them and they go right to reminding me that my body has nothing to do with me being a woman. I even have a fully-lesbian (and I mean RAGING lesbian) friend who flirts with me from time to time to help pick me back up. I brought it up one day ("Why do you flirt with me? I'm not built right, after all...") and her response was, "I don't give a crap how you're built, you ditz, you're a woman and that makes you fair game". :icon_chuckel: I really do love that gal.
My girlfriend tells me the same thing, and I love her so much for it. I don't know...I'm just at a point where I NEED to feel more like a girl physically, because the longer I go without it the more I fear that I will be masculine/male with no other choice, what my body will become unchangable and there's no way I'll ever be able to feel -physically- like a woman. That's where my jealousy comes out in me.