Susan's Place Transgender Resources

It seems like mainstream media has really began covering transgender topics in a very positive light lately such as Transparent; Laverne Cox, Andrej Pejic; NBC Nightly News/Today coverage this week, etc. etc.  I also was really surprised at how many people from all walks of life have rallied against the type of bullying and hate that leads to so many deaths and suicides in our community. 

So, for what its worth, if tomorrow's Bruce Jenner interview is her public "coming out" as everyone is anticipating, I hope and pray that it is presented and received by the public in a positive light.  Such a huge chance to really change people's hearts and further pave the way forward for everyone in our community.  *keeping fingers and toes crossed*


 

I can only imagine the relief she will be blessed with having faced this off, I pray our media will understand enough to not haunt her and let her enjoy her life going forward. I have been following the coverage on NBC nightly News and felt that they have given those kids and families fair coverage, we may not see the fallout for them but we can hope the will allowed the privacy to develop and grow as they are

Having a well respected celebrity is good for us. People tend to respect celebrities who are well adjusted, well liked and respected and have shown themselves to be kind, compassionate people.

As much as it will be good for us, it will be better for her. I can't imagine the pressure she is under with this though. Everyone will be watching, not just family and friends. She is strong though, and I think her news will be well received. However the public views her, she should feel better not having to struggle daily with  having to present as the gender she does not identify with.

sam1234

I've seen mixed reactions from the media about her. The more respectable radio and TV personalities are empathetic towards her and more open to the transgender community now but I've seen many who claim it's merely a publicity stunt or a cry for attention. Even though we all know (or at least hope) someone wouldn't transition merely for publicity, I can't blame some people for wondering after things like Jenner's involvement with the Kardashians and all of their reality show stunts. So is she really helping raise awareness for the transgender/transexual community or is she simply fueling the ignorant misconception that transgender people just want attention?

She will be fine.  Money and fame and it's good and bad are a big part of his/her life.  What will change, nothing....as a matter of fact there is an huge interview coming up yes? 

Teams, gay or whatever who cares.   Where I live honestly no one that I know of gives a rats you know what.  Maybe they do but not really.   Yes some places people do but these same folks whom claim to be the high and mighty and righteous cheat, lie, steal and have affairs just like their neighbors and my neighbors.  I find that crap more offensive.  Especially the two faced act all righteous and condemn but behind closed doors don't do as they say. 

Who cares what the media says really, Bruce is built to exist and thrive in this sewage.  Now where are my flippers


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"there is no such thing as bad publicity". If the cis can see more trans*, good for us - even if I plan to go stealth should I be blessed by good surgical results, I don't forget the girls who don't have that choice.

I just did an interview with a local station that will air immediately after the special. I have a newly-increased respect for Laverne and Carmen and their ability to shut down silly questions.

I just want this Jenner business over and done with. I'm tired of seeing it all over the place.  just think, every time someone comes out, how many times will people say, "Oh, so you're like Bruce Jenner?"

For those in my geneartion and in my social bracket her transition virtually mirrors mine in time frame and age. I so very much admire her and I know that I will need to come out in my City to a mass of news and press but nothing like what she has to face. Because of her I have spoken to and told many friends and building a support bloc before I go public. I know they will be comments with barbs but I am legally protected against prejudice and I will take legal action if it is ever overt. Many of my male friend have posed delicate questions to me and raised Bruce Jenner, maybe this will open their eyes.

The interview tonight should be good. I know many of my male friend will watch. I think many will guess what I am and I am glad...

Well you have one rock you can lean on for support in me Warlockmaker! I told a friend tonight that it takes people of note to come out in peoples lives to make it easier for those who follow.

Anyone with such a huge and public profile is going to improve the image of all, as long as it gets presented and handled the right way, either Bruce or the Interviewer(s) can make or break the interview... one of those times where we can say "thank god for TV"
Hope its presented worldwide... NBC?... hope it gets onto one of the FOX presented channels.

L Katy

Bruce, if you're reading this, good luck. You're going to be the center of attention in the days ahead. I'm sending good thoughts your way.

Hugs.  :icon_hug:

Maybe so, we are nice people & mean no one any harm. Perhaps the world will become a little softer & more understanding after this person explains her needs & desires.

Quote from: Rainbow Dash on April 23, 2015, 10:14:40 PM
I just want this Jenner business over and done with. I'm tired of seeing it all over the place.  just think, every time someone comes out, how many times will people say, "Oh, so you're like Bruce Jenner?"

Yes!!! I really am dreading this. You know next week the supermarket checkout tabloids will have outrageous pictures and headlines. I'm nervous someone will see it and see me and put 2 and 2 together.

Quote from: iKate on April 24, 2015, 08:19:14 AM

Quote from: Rainbow Dash on April 23, 2015, 10:14:40 PM
I just want this Jenner business over and done with. I'm tired of seeing it all over the place.  just think, every time someone comes out, how many times will people say, "Oh, so you're like Bruce Jenner?"

Yes!!! I really am dreading this. You know next week the supermarket checkout tabloids will have outrageous pictures and headlines. I'm nervous someone will see it and see me and put 2 and 2 together.

If and when they do. You look them in the eye and smile and be proud for being a unique and wonderful woman.

We have nothing to be ashamed off.

We are strong.

I never asked to be transgender, but I will never let anyone try to shame me or make me a joke.

I kind of have that fear too, having to hear the Bruce Jenner jokes is going to a little annoying when I come out.

So much better to hug someone when they come out. We have never expressed fear about any members here coming out and casting us in a bad light. Let's not do it to B.

Hugs, Devlyn

Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 24, 2015, 08:52:51 AM
So much better to hug someone when they come out. We have never expressed fear about any members here coming out and casting us in a bad light. Let's not do it to B.

Hugs, Devlyn

^this^

I think it will do us more good than harm, but I see a paradoxical result for those of us in stealth from my own experience. Transgender becoming more visible will help clueless people like I was realize the truth about themselves and these same people will be accused of just jumping on a popular bandwagon to be "unique". We have to be careful (as we typically are) to accept other's truth, even if we doubt it, and encourage others to do the same. Somehow, I suspect, if the announcement is what we expect, Jenner will be facing just such accusations. I stand by B. Jenner's right to be themself, regardless of what the interview brings out.

I think we can acknowledge the potential for it bringing challenges and negativity to the community as a whole without assigning blame for it to Jenner. There is a chance that it will be portrayed in a sensational, yucky manner. If it does, it will not be Jenner's fault, but I am certainly bracing for that.

I think any negativity it will bring is already there, just not so much outspoken until someone with the sort of fame that Jenner has comes along. Also, there will be some misplaced stuff due to the association with the Kardashian Clan. So maybe bringing it all out of people will create more opportunity for positive discussion that could lead to wider spread education. But the main thing is that Jenner should not get any flack from our community at all, everyone has the right to come out when and how they feel is appropriate for them, not based on what we would do for ourselves, so don't let your own personal experience cloud your own view, Jenner is in a much different situation than most of us will ever be in.

A brief anecdote, just heard this on the (country music) radio...

"Bruce Jenner will be interviewed by Diane Sawyer tonight tonight...just so you know, Diane will be the one on the right."

ba-dah-bump!

I giggled when I heard it, because it is a clean joke about passing well enough to confuse viewers.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on April 24, 2015, 04:30:10 PM
A brief anecdote, just heard this on the (country music) radio...

"Bruce Jenner will be interviewed by Diane Sawyer tonight...just so you know, Diane will be the one on the right."

ba-dah-bump!

I giggled when I heard it, because it is a clean joke about passing well enough to confuse viewers.

And it rhymes!  :)

Hugs, Devlyn

good luck on the interview sister :)

Ugh, I knew I was getting into a challenge when I agreed to be interviewed. But the commercial they're playing for it right now is done in typical 10 o clock news style.  Totally sensationalized.

Crap, that's tonight?  Could someone TiVo that for me?  I guess this is what I get for not keeping up with the Kardashians.

I guess trans issues are going to be on people's minds this week.  It's going to be a great opportunity to educate people.  I would love to see this taboo smashed once and for all now that we have some momentum on our side.

Knock 'em dead Ms. Jenner!

So is anyone else watching the interview? What do yall think? I'm listening to it in the background while doing stuff around the house but have heard a lot of similarities between his early life and mine....well minus winning the olympics lol

Quote from: Jill F on April 24, 2015, 08:21:56 PM
Crap, that's tonight?  Could someone TiVo that for me?  I guess this is what I get for not keeping up with the Kardashians.

I guess trans issues are going to be on people's minds this week.  It's going to be a great opportunity to educate people.  I would love to see this taboo smashed once and for all now that we have some momentum on our side.

Knock 'em dead Ms. Jenner!

You should still have two and a half hours before it comes on. So far, its good, all things considered.

Don't spoil it for those who can't see it until west coast time.

It's not on here, yet, but I am planning to watch.

I really want to see it, the little bit I can see from tidbits online seems good.  Wish I could find somewhere that will let you watch live :(

My (very recent) ex just Texted me to say she's crying. Apparently it's everything I tried explaining to her but she never understood. Does it really take a celebrity to get people to listen!?!

I am so disappointed on how wrong they got it. 

For me I felt so bad for her. 

Just another non educated interview and I agree the backlash in tabloids will be great.

Sad,  very sad. But as always it could have been a inspiration to the community. 

Quote from: mrs izzy on April 24, 2015, 09:39:18 PM
I am so disappointed on how wrong they got it. 

For me I felt so bad for her. 

Just another non educated interview and I agree the backlash in tabloids will be great.

Sad,  very sad. But as always it could have been a inspiration to the community.

Could you explain? 

Quote from: femmebutt on April 24, 2015, 09:02:32 PM
My (very recent) ex just Texted me to say she's crying. Apparently it's everything I tried explaining to her but she never understood. Does it really take a celebrity to get people to listen!?!

Yes, unfortunately. Most people (imho) rely on authority figures to tell them what to think. The few who truly think for themselves are ridiculed for being on the "fringes" or "radicals."

Wish I'd seen it now! :(

Quote from: mrs izzy on April 24, 2015, 09:39:18 PM
I am so disappointed on how wrong they got it. 

For me I felt so bad for her. 

Just another non educated interview and I agree the backlash in tabloids will be great.

Sad,  very sad. But as always it could have been a inspiration to the community.

I don't have cable, and would be unlikely to watch it. Maybe start a discussion thread so we can hear about it without worry about "spoilers" for those who will watch?

I'm watching it (DVR) now. It started off good and not surprisingly a lot of what she said I've said to other people. I hope she finds herself and I hope she is sincere that this is not just a stunt. It may be good for the community after all. However I will reserve judgement until I see the whole thing.

Quote from: Beth Andrea on April 24, 2015, 10:26:10 PM
I don't have cable, and would be unlikely to watch it. Maybe start a discussion thread so we can hear about it without worry about "spoilers" for those who will watch?

It was on ABC which is available free over the air with a digital tuner and antenna. :)

The family is going to be on GMA on Monday.

Quote from: marsh monster on April 24, 2015, 09:47:12 PM

Quote from: mrs izzy on April 24, 2015, 09:39:18 PM
I am so disappointed on how wrong they got it. 

For me I felt so bad for her. 

Just another non educated interview and I agree the backlash in tabloids will be great.

Sad,  very sad. But as always it could have been a inspiration to the community.

Could you explain?

I heard more he an him and maybe a once in a while she or her.

As always no respect and she let the interview process that way.

Respect starts first and foremost with respect for who we are.

I cried but I cried for the community and her.

Quote from: iKate on April 24, 2015, 10:32:49 PM
It was on ABC which is available free over the air with a digital tuner and antenna. :)

The family is going to be on GMA on Monday.

Well, it would be, but I've tried the tuner and antenna route. I had to return all 3 combinations to the store, and then they asked me where I live in my city, and they said, "Oh yeah, that's a well-known dead spot. We get returns from that area all the time."

:(

Well it may end up online sooner or later.

Quote from: mrs izzy on April 24, 2015, 10:36:17 PM
Could you explain?

I heard more he an him and maybe a once in a while she or her.

As always no respect and she let the interview process that way.

Respect starts first and foremost with respect for who we are.

I cried but I cried for the community and her.

True but apart from the misgendering a lot of the stuff is dead on accurate.

However the part where Dianne is confused about sexual orientation is very misleading.

Quote from: mrs izzy on April 24, 2015, 10:36:17 PM
Could you explain?

I heard more he an him and maybe a once in a while she or her.

As always no respect and she let the interview process that way.

Respect starts first and foremost with respect for who we are.

I cried but I cried for the community and her.

Jenner apparently told her to use he/him for now, that was mentioned in the show. I imagine that this is all very difficult for Jenner being under so much scrutiny in their everyday life and knowing that people are following, even to the point of putting a tracker on the vehicle Jenner drives. Jenner is also not allowing themselves to be photographed dressed as a woman as Jenner needs to come fully out in their own way and time that makes them comfortable and we should respect that.

And really, its like Jenner is kind of separating Bruce from "her" like they are different people for now. Probably due to the extreme pressure put on by the media. Overall, I though the interview was good and positive and ABC did put some effort towards educating those watching, which is commendable.

I thought the interview was great and don't see how it could have the negative impact others think it did. Was it perfect? No. A lot was said that I could relate to. Like hearing personal stories of other trans people I have met.

Quote from: marsh monster on April 24, 2015, 10:46:36 PM
Jenner apparently told her to use he/him for now, that was mentioned in the show. I imagine that this is all very difficult for Jenner being under so much scrutiny in their everyday life and knowing that people are following, even to the point of putting a tracker on the vehicle Jenner drives. Jenner is also not allowing themselves to be photographed dressed as a woman as Jenner needs to come fully out in their own way and time that makes them comfortable and we should respect that.

And really, its like Jenner is kind of separating Bruce from "her" like they are different people for now. Probably due to the extreme pressure put on by the media. Overall, I though the interview was good and positive and ABC did put some effort towards educating those watching, which is commendable.

I get that as well. Also remember a lot of what they are describing is past tense so there is more "he" and "him" because that is what was back then.

Just my Own perspective I am giving.

I guess I read to much about people and our community and i feel so much right prospective lies in our own way we come out or be present in public.

So i do feel it was to wrong for being helpful for others to understand.

To many flags flying in different directions.

I can add a whole list to his but will not.

I so wish her the best and i know she will have a easier way through all the process then the teens who suffer everyday from bullying.

They are who i feel sad for the most.

So that is my prospective on the whole Jenner transition.

I think it is a good thing personally.  Could this actually be the most public coming out for a trans person ever? 

Also, hopefully this will stop all the stupid tabloid nonsense.  All of that was terribly hurtful and I even cried for her- even if I wasn't sure if she was trans or not at the time.  Even if not, it was hurtful to all trans people to report things in that way.  I don't blame her. 

What really surprised me was that she was on HRT for 5 years in the 80's, but ended up stopping it because it was too hard to come out in that spotlight back then. 

I think this will good for the community, honestly.  Yeah the misgendering was awkward and won't help, but that is how Bruce prefers to be referred to for now and that should be respected and that's what they did.  There isn't, after all, only one narrative that we all must adhere to in lockstep.  There is no one right way to be trans, and there's certainly no one right way to handle how one presents oneself early in transition.

The bigger picture is everybody everywhere is talking about transgender issues tonight, and surprisingly, I am seeing way more positivity than trolling.  A lot of that should be credited to Bruce for being vulnerable and relateable and human.

It's a good thing.  I promise.

this is going to be one of the biggest things for the community ever, maybe the interview could have been a little better maybe diane should have just realized she is a Lesbian and is attracted to women, thats the only thing that made me want to throw the remote at the tv.

but even tho we all have very different stories we all have alot of similarities in the end, im happy to see her finally come out and maybe more people in the world will start to think that we are not wierdos opr pedophiles that want to look at kids in the washroom

things are all up hill from here

Bruce tried to keep away from discussion of orientation which is good, might help people to understand that its not the same and as Bruce said, that isn't the issue they're dealing with currently. And if I recall correctly, Bruce did say they leaned more towards asexual at this point.

I am so pleasantly surprised. There were only a couple face palm moments for the entire two hours and a lot of good, accurate information. Considering the reality tv/tabloid nature of Jenner's celebrity, I am impressed how much of a authentic, human story they gave as opposed to a sensationalized one. I think this special is going to do far more good than harm.

And better yet, my interview on the local newscast afterward went pretty well too!

For many of the younger girls Bruce Jenner may not be as well known. My generation he was a hero. I need to be pushed to come out in my city, in Bangkok it's easy ...no one knows me. Next week will be interesting for me as the questions from my male friends and the friendly jokes will surface after his headline interview. I have only come out to my girlfriends. Next week with some strength from Bruce I will tell my male friends, just had a lunch with  global head of a major US bank and he was so supportive it brought me to tears. I will tell my best friend and one of my business partner next week ....He has asked a few times about Bruce so he senses it. It's going to be an interesting week ahead and I am prepared that there will be negativity. Like all of us after over 2 years on hrt we have this overwhelming need to come out. I personally feel that Bruce will be major boost for us

It's difficult for the younger girls to understand, but to come out as an older person who was a major Alpha male us much more difficult. So many male traits to let go of.......

I thought it was great.  I got a sense that it was not just to announce that Bruce is going through gender transition, but it was also a final time to reflect on his life in the past.  To help prepare people for the time it will not be Bruce and male pronouns.  I am sympathetic because Bruce is in very uncharted waters.  It is very tricky planning how to come out, being a male athletic hero and in the forefront of the media. 

They did an amazing job handling this. It was a fitting way to close one book to make room to write the next one.
Mariah

I recorded the interview and I will watch it later. From what I am reading here I am really anxious to see the interview.

 I was 14 years old in 78 when Bruce won the Decathlon. I remember watching it. I can't stand the Kardashians. Anyway, i'm nearly 51 now and I have always felt like a male in a female body. I've kept it to myself and tried to not acknowledge that part of me.

Bruce made me see that I needed to quit hiding and at least come out to those who know the struggles. I doubt I will ever come out to my family but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them started questioning me.

I really didn't pay attention when Chasity Bono did her transitioning to Chaz. I guess I was still in denial but Bruce opened my eyes up that if he could do this at 64 it wasn't too late for me. I really resonated with his feelings even though he is transitioning the opposite way.

I think he is a very brave person for doing this.

The TV interview went well. I just hated to see her dressed all drabby, ugly clothes. She should have dressed nicer & more of a woman, not the old person. Also she should have been more open about her GRS & looking forward to a nice normal vagina. Overall it went well I think.

Quote from: FrancisAnn on April 25, 2015, 06:44:03 AM
The TV interview went well. I just hated to see her dressed all drabby, ugly clothes. She should have dressed nicer & more of a woman, not the old person. Also she should have been more open about her GRS & looking forward to a nice normal vagina. Overall it went well I think.

Actually, I'm glad Bruce stayed away from a lot of that aspect of transition, we need to get people's focus away from genitals.

I felt the interview went extremely well. Bruce deflected a lot of the unimportant questions like sexuality and GRS, and was able to accurately show that he is just another emotional human being. He did say to refer to him with male pronouns for the time being and ABC did a good job teaching throughout the interview. His reaction to being asked if it was a publicity stunt was perfect.

I watched it with my grandparents and I did cry a few times. I am so happy he has the support of his family and can finally be his true self.

Missed the show but my local paper had a short article this a.m. about the interview. Article positive in tone. In my opinion took a lot of guts to sit in front of the world and discuss it.......

Quote from: marsh monster on April 25, 2015, 06:48:16 AM

Quote from: FrancisAnn on April 25, 2015, 06:44:03 AM
The TV interview went well. I just hated to see her dressed all drabby, ugly clothes. She should have dressed nicer & more of a woman, not the old person. Also she should have been more open about her GRS & looking forward to a nice normal vagina. Overall it went well I think.

Actually, I'm glad Bruce stayed away from a lot of that aspect of transition, we need to get people's focus away from genitals.

Totally agree.

Quote from: FrancisAnn on April 25, 2015, 06:44:03 AM
The TV interview went well. I just hated to see her dressed all drabby, ugly clothes. She should have dressed nicer & more of a woman, not the old person. Also she should have been more open about her GRS & looking forward to a nice normal vagina. Overall it went well I think.

Not every transwomans perception of femininity entails wearing a dress and having GRS Francis.

Overall I was surprised at the dialogue, it was a professionally thought out and openhearted exchange. My fears of the interview being cynical and poking fun in order to test his cool (think John Oliver's interview with Snowden) was thankfully unfounded. I like the interviews added history elements of trans people and their struggles finding acceptance in society, it really helped strengthen our platform for increased understanding of who we are to the masses.

I think this is the year of our becoming, for transgender coming into its own. I really hope so.

So I watched a good part of it before I just plain fell asleep, I was tired. But enough to draw a good conclusion.

It was mostly good and I feel that it is good for the community. In fact it is already good for me as I have friends who know texting me this morning saying how they finally understand what I went through.

I think with all the focus lately on young transitioners like Jazz and others, it is absolutely refreshing to see them focus on an older person and the struggle that we go through. I am not as old as ms Jenner but I have a life, two wives, kids and much of the same struggle. I don't have the paparazzi but I have people gossiping. In short we have different struggles from teens and kids and while we don't have high school we do have bullying and from adults it can be far worse. The difference is we have life behind us and a thicker skin.

As much as I am not a fan of Diane Sawyer for her other work I have to hand it to her.

However tabloids and TMZ will do their thing. Can't escape.

Quote from: FrancisAnn on April 25, 2015, 06:44:03 AM
The TV interview went well. I just hated to see her dressed all drabby, ugly clothes. She should have dressed nicer & more of a woman, not the old person. Also she should have been more open about her GRS & looking forward to a nice normal vagina. Overall it went well I think.

I get why. She wanted to come out on her own terms. This is the butterfly moment. In many places I still present male because I'm not ready yet. Once I have my VFS, my hair grows a bit and my facial hair is managed to a point I'm comfortable with I will be confident in going full time. It's a psychological barrier too. I suspect Ms Jenner has much of the same to deal with. I wonder if she is also doing any surgery like VFS and GCS soon.

I've watched most of it..........

It seems odd that there was quite a long gap between the date of the actual interview and its being shown. I am guessing that she will next present openly in public as herself, as this was the last interview as Bruce Jenner. I would imagine the next interview would be fairly soon.

I did not know she had had 5 years on oestrogen in the '80s?! As well as electrolysis (aargh!) in many ways, despite all the celeb paparazzo bluster around her.........her story's not that different to many on this site.

I actually think the interview went well and Diane Sawyer, did a good job. I was also afraid that this was going to be terrible, that they would turn this interview into a joke. I think what Jenner is doing is great for the trans community, you got this Olympic hero who is going through the same struggles as us. Kind of what he said in the interview, why would he go through with transitioning and going through this journey just for publicity. I also like how he kept saying sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things.

I agree that the Jenner interview will benefit the transgender community as millions were watching and now better informed.  Ms Jenner's well earned Olympic star power has terrifically increased transgender visibility even as they have been the subject of massive ridicule and hurtful media types. 

It would seem this situation is well choreographed and we can likely expect a major coming out as "her" TV event or series.  Bruce's answer to the orientation question may have been confusing to some viewers as he chose to call himself heterosexual when referencing his past life experience.  How they view their future seems to start with currently feeling "asexual" and we will likely hear more about that evolution.  We may yet hear that they will consider them self to be lesbian but that is their call.  I would love to see the suggested meeting and type of support Ms Jenner receives from GOP leaders Mitchell and Boehner. ;)  Wouldn't we love to be surprised by the GOP leaders announcing their support for a comprehensive LGBTQIA non discrimination policy for the USA!  We can dream along with Ms. Jenner of a day when hearts, minds and civil rights provide for all of us.

I appreciated the questions and comprehensive nature of the interview and supportive references and much of Bruce's experience resonated with me as a similarly aged girl.  I so recognized that point at which "I was no longer able to pull back the curtain" and hide my true self.  The rest is transition and personal growth.

ok well on a more positive note than my last post... I still see no posts about Bruce Jenner or the interview last night and what happened...how many of you actually watched it or knew what happened before this post? Thoughts

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,186980.0.html

there you go sweetie

I loved the interview and so did my wife.  Looked at me and said this is your story.  I said.  Hopefully some doubting spouses had their eyes opened last night.   He represented me and I think all of us well.    I believe this is a watershed moment in the transgendered world!  Thoughts?


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QuoteI actually think the interview went well and Diane Sawyer, did a good job. I was also afraid that this was going to be terrible, that they would turn this interview into a joke. I think what Jenner is doing is great for the trans community, you got this Olympic hero who is going through the same struggles as us. Kind of what he said in the interview, why would he go through with transitioning and going through this journey just for publicity. I also like how he kept saying sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things.

I completely agree. It was much better than I was expecting, and I liked that Jenner didn't present as the ultra-femme stereotype of a trans woman which far too many people still hold. He (I will refer to him by male pronouns as long as that's his stated preference) seems to be doing his transition on his own terms, at his own pace, pretty much feeling his way into it, and I loved that he conveyed that so clearly.

It was nice, too, that ABC seemed to want the interview to be a "teachable moment" rather than something to exploit for its shock value. They presented a lot of basic information about trans folks in a way that (one hopes) made it accessible to people who are uninformed on the subject.

I also liked that they made a point of showing his family's love and support for him. OK, the Kardashians are pretty much a joke, but there was a real sense of family there, and it was great that they conveyed the difficulty of accepting and adjusting to what "Dad" is doing, as well as the kids' commitment to doing that.

Jenner isn't the brightest guy around, or the most articulate, but I thought he was inspiring in his honesty and thoughtfulness about what he's doing, and his desire to make his own process something which helps other people.

that for article was before the interview though and nothing was known or whether it was for sure

I think it was one of the best treatments of a trans person I've ever seen by the media. The highlight is when Bruce said he wasn't trapped in a man's body, it was his body. I loved that.

Bruce, you did good!  :eusa_clap:

My take is that the interview was great.  It sounded much like many of the discussions I have had with family and close friends over the past several months in my own back yard.  Almost word for word at times.   

While we all are certainly entitled to our own opinions, I was actually surprised to read some of the more negative comments.  I think we all should agree that while each one of our paths is similar, each is also very unique and personal.  I support anyone that is able to come out on his/her own terms, which is how I felt about the interview last night. She did it how she wanted to.  And for the delay, I think that she asked for it to be postponed due to the car accident which I think is totally a respectful thing

In my view she is much more a hero than ever.

Quote from: rosinstraya on April 25, 2015, 08:54:42 AM
I've watched most of it..........

It seems odd that there was quite a long gap between the date of the actual interview and its being shown. I am guessing that she will next present openly in public as herself, as this was the last interview as Bruce Jenner. I would imagine the next interview would be fairly soon.

I did not know she had had 5 years on oestrogen in the '80s?! As well as electrolysis (aargh!) in many ways, despite all the celeb paparazzo bluster around her.........her story's not that different to many on this site.

The estrogen thing was quite shocking to me for the fact Bruce was still able to have children after! :icon_eek: And very beautiful children at that. I want my FFS surgeon to give me Kylie's nose and pouty lips! Bruce sure has produced some good looking offspring.

Quote from: Vanny on April 25, 2015, 01:05:14 PM
I loved the interview and so did my wife.  Looked at me and said this is your story.  I said.  Hopefully some doubting spouses had their eyes opened last night.   He represented me and I think all of us well.    I believe this is a watershed moment in the transgendered world!  Thoughts?


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Sweetie recorded it. I don't know why, she didn't say. Neither one of us has watched it yet. What I've heard about it has been mostly positive, here and elsewhere.

17 million people watched the interview in the US alone.

I really admire his courage in coming out. I'm sure it was not easy whatsoever being in the public eye, and I'm sure it brought him a lot of turmoil until he reached the point where he was finally ready to do it.

I know I will get a little flak for this but ... here goes.  :o I thought the interview was very good and to me the best part was that he did not spaz out about pronouns. Too many times I have seen or heard of Trans* persons doing us all a disservice by turning a pronoun mistake into a huge deal. Flying off the handle and being so focused on the he/she issue that it took away from the humanity of the situation. Sometimes making cis people completely unwilling to learn about and accept Trans*. I have a friend and he had in the past, friends who transitioned. He was concerned when I told him about my transition because as he said, "They are nut jobs". He respects me and so I dug deeper and it is because of these people flipping out about pronouns, this is why he said they were nuts.  He said that he was always carful to use proper names and pronouns but their other friend (who had all known each other since children) had slipped up a few times and their Trans* friend just lost it. To the point that none of her friends want to be around her anymore.

I love it when people say "she", or "her", Ma'am or Miss when referring to me. Makes me glow. Some of my friends will just never do it, they knew me as "him" for so long. I will never get mad at them or flip out, it just seems trivial to do so. Even with my Mom, who loves me very much. She just has a hard time saying "she" or "her" when referring to me. I called her to tell her she should watch the Jenner interview. She said "I don't know who that is, I don't watch TV... Besides I get to live my own transition story with you." I said "Yup, you get to see your own daughter emerge." She giggled nervously. I asked, "Does that bug you, saying I am your daughter?" She said, "No, its just weird hearing it, I love you no matter what!"  ;D

I do wish Bruce well, and I am glad that he is now open about this and the paparazzi and media can stop speculating.

Bruce can finally wear his nail polish until it chips off! Yay!

Much love to you all!

-Jade
:-*

I'm happy for Ms Jenner, I think she did a good job on this interview, I appreciate that she thinks about herself as a tomboy instead of a super femme trans woman, and that she is declaring a difference between sexual orientation and gender identity. I don't like how Diane sawyer was asking sexuality questions like that, it was too much, Ms. Jenner touched upon this once, how many times does she needs her to repeat it?

Also, for the trans people who feel like this was a media circus move, we have to remember that Ms. Jenner was a victim of paparazzi, she clearly didn't like the attention, and the questions made by the paparazzi were inappropriate, also she said in her interview, that she is not a spokesperson for everyone who's transgender. I personally don't relate to her experience, I started transitioning before I turned 18, and I will not get  a job as a male, and experience male privilege that way, like she did, and be able to afford all the things Ms. Jenner can afford at this point. I am not married, so I will not experience what she went through that neither. Plus, she also acknowledge the fact that trans women of color have it way harder, and trans suicides, murders, etc... And for those stealth trans women, Ms. Jenner doesn't have the possibility of being stealth, so she can't just hide this, and for sure, she didn't want any of those ugly cover stories, speculating about her transition.

Jenner: Athlete, Christian, Parent, Celebrity Advances Visibility and Understanding of Transgender People
Susan's Place Transgender Resources
https://www.susans.org/2015/04/25/jenner-athlete-christian-parent-celebrity-advances-visibility-understanding-transgender-people/

HRC Commends Jenner for Sharing Transition Journey, Olympic Champion Inspires Others

Washington, DC – The Human Rights Campaign (HRC), the nation's largest lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) civil rights organization, commended Bruce Jenner for making history tonight, sharing her powerful story and, in doing so, raising the visibility of transgender people and issues facing the transgender community.

"Tonight Jenner shared her story with the world and, in doing so, brought viewers to a new level of understanding when it comes to transgender people," said HRC's Jay Brown, Director of Public Education and Research. "Her story touched on so many of the challenges we transgender people face — rejection, harassment, ridicule, and self-doubt."

"But in the end, Jenner's story is one of resiliency, faith, family, strength and love, and one that can inspire countless others to live their truth," Brown said. Jenner's interview comes at a time when more and more Americans know transgender people, and support them. A recent national HRC survey revealed that 22 percent of likely voters personally know or work with someone who is transgender, and, of that group, two-thirds expressed favorable feelings toward them. That's up from 17 percent who said they knew a transgender person just a year ago.

[Read More] (https://www.susans.org/2015/04/25/jenner-athlete-christian-parent-celebrity-advances-visibility-understanding-transgender-people/)

Also includes video clip

There were a couple cringe-worthy moments (ie Diane going on about orientation) but Bruce just handled it with so much class (much more than I would've had haha). I laughed, I cried, and I was filled with such an intense feeling of pride.

This is a huge step for our community, and it's going to help more and more people understand what being trans means. It's amazing.

Quote from: Jade_404 on April 25, 2015, 02:34:20 PM
I know I will get a little flak for this but ... here goes.  :o I thought the interview was very good and to me the best part was that he did not spaz out about pronouns. Too many times I have seen or heard of Trans* persons doing us all a disservice by turning a pronoun mistake into a huge deal. Flying off the handle and being so focused on the he/she issue that it took away from the humanity of the situation. Sometimes making cis people completely unwilling to learn about and accept Trans*. I have a friend and he had in the past, friends who transitioned. He was concerned when I told him about my transition because as he said, "They are nut jobs". He respects me and so I dug deeper and it is because of these people flipping out about pronouns, this is why he said they were nuts.  He said that he was always carful to use proper names and pronouns but their other friend (who had all known each other since children) had slipped up a few times and their Trans* friend just lost it. To the point that none of her friends want to be around her anymore.

I love it when people say "she", or "her", Ma'am or Miss when referring to me. Makes me glow. Some of my friends will just never do it, they knew me as "him" for so long. I will never get mad at them or flip out, it just seems trivial to do so. Even with my Mom, who loves me very much. She just has a hard time saying "she" or "her" when referring to me. I called her to tell her she should watch the Jenner interview. She said "I don't know who that is, I don't watch TV... Besides I get to live my own transition story with you." I said "Yup, you get to see your own daughter emerge." She giggled nervously. I asked, "Does that bug you, saying I am your daughter?" She said, "No, its just weird hearing it, I love you no matter what!"  ;D

I do wish Bruce well, and I am glad that he is now open about this and the paparazzi and media can stop speculating.

Bruce can finally wear his nail polish until it chips off! Yay!

Much love to you all!

-Jade
:-*

Sorry but you and I have a different definition of love.

They may say they love you but if they aren't respecting your identity they aren't taking you seriously. This is why we "flip out" about pronouns. I would just gently remind people though, rather than completely flip out, and if friends keep misgendering you to the point of embarrassment in public, are they really worth keeping around? I know it takes time but I am willing to give months not years. An occasional slip is OK but not every single time, as if they completely ignored your transition.

I was really nervous about the potential impact of the interview and that people wouldn't get an accurate depiction on transgender people, but I thought it was very well done.  My mom and sister forced me to watch with them, which was uncomfortable, but I was pleasantly surprised with it and think it may have helped my mom a bit.  While I never would have imagined I'd have anything in common with them, I actually found some of it to be relatable.  Even though I see things differently (perception and politics being two big ones) than them and much about our lives  is very different, I thought it was well done overall. 

Having said that, Im a little confused that someone can be on hrt for 5 years and have 2 kids.  While there is always a rare chance to have children, its very unlikely and usually it makes you completely sterile.  How can he have 2 kids after that?  I don't know, but I was told I can never have kids if I started hrt which was a very difficult thing for me to accept.  This is the case for most people I've talked to, so how was he able to?

And what pronouns are they going by now?  I don't want to make a mistake and want to use the ones they are comfortable using.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 25, 2015, 03:58:31 PM
I don't know, but I was told I can never have kids if I started hrt which was a very difficult thing for me to accept.  This is the case for most people I've talked to, so how was he able to?

You should not believe everything doctors say. It's a risk, not a certainty, both for MTF and FTM. I plan on an orchi, and couldn't care less about kids -- except if I could give birth naturally.

Sadly, we don't have the technology for that yet. Maybe one day artifical uteruses will exist?

Quote from: charlotte15 on April 25, 2015, 04:16:28 PM
You should not believe everything doctors say. It's a risk, not a certainty, both for MTF and FTM. I plan on an orchi, and couldn't care less about kids -- except if I could give birth naturally.

Sadly, we don't have the technology for that yet. Maybe one day artifical uteruses will exist?

But isn't it a huge and likely risk?  I thought the chances of having children after a decent amount of time on hrt was very unlikely.  Everything I read about it said that and so did the two endocrinologists I've seen for hrt.  All the power to them, it just sounds like a very unlikely thing to have happened.  Maybe they were on a very low dose and didn't take an anti-androgen.  I think that wasn't used until recently,right?

I doubt that will ever be the case in my lifetime or while I still have my youth.  I've accepted that I'll have to adopt somehow if I ever get the chance to one day have a family.

Yes Diane asked a lot of questions about Orientation.  But nothing too inappropriate.  All of the questions were pre-done in advance I am sure.  They also have to ask things people at home will, to quiet down where the media will go with things, and try and keep the focus on the journey.

I think Ms. Jenner decided to dress the way she did, and not make a spectacle so as to give people a way to ease into it, and prepare.

I respect that.

I applaud the courage of her doing this.  Bravo to her, and to Diane Sawyer and ABC.

Quote from: femmebutt on April 24, 2015, 09:02:32 PM
My (very recent) ex just Texted me to say she's crying. Apparently it's everything I tried explaining to her but she never understood. Does it really take a celebrity to get people to listen!?!

Yes. Sadly. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I applaud her for doing the interview easing the people into her transition. Hope to be able to see her out and about living as her true self without the media hounding her. Sadly that wont be the case.

Quote from: charlotte15 on April 25, 2015, 04:16:28 PM
You should not believe everything doctors say. It's a risk, not a certainty, both for MTF and FTM. I plan on an orchi, and couldn't care less about kids -- except if I could give birth naturally.

Sadly, we don't have the technology for that yet. Maybe one day artifical uteruses will exist?

It is a risk. I am producing absolutely nothing now. I have kids already though.

Quote from: learningtolive on April 25, 2015, 03:58:31 PM
Having said that, Im a little confused that someone can be on hrt for 5 years and have 2 kids.  While there is always a rare chance to have children, its very unlikely and usually it makes you completely sterile.  How can he have 2 kids after that?  I don't know, but I was told I can never have kids if I started hrt which was a very difficult thing for me to accept.  This is the case for most people I've talked to, so how was he able to?

He could have banked sperm before he started HRT.

Quote from: Jade_404 on April 25, 2015, 02:34:20 PM
I know I will get a little flak for this but ... here goes.  :o I thought the interview was very good and to me the best part was that he did not spaz out about pronouns. Too many times I have seen or heard of Trans* persons doing us all a disservice by turning a pronoun mistake into a huge deal. Flying off the handle and being so focused on the he/she issue that it took away from the humanity of the situation. Sometimes making cis people completely unwilling to learn about and accept Trans*. I have a friend and he had in the past, friends who transitioned. He was concerned when I told him about my transition because as he said, "They are nut jobs". He respects me and so I dug deeper and it is because of these people flipping out about pronouns, this is why he said they were nuts.  He said that he was always carful to use proper names and pronouns but their other friend (who had all known each other since children) had slipped up a few times and their Trans* friend just lost it. To the point that none of her friends want to be around her anymore.

I love it when people say "she", or "her", Ma'am or Miss when referring to me. Makes me glow. Some of my friends will just never do it, they knew me as "him" for so long. I will never get mad at them or flip out, it just seems trivial to do so. Even with my Mom, who loves me very much. She just has a hard time saying "she" or "her" when referring to me. I called her to tell her she should watch the Jenner interview. She said "I don't know who that is, I don't watch TV... Besides I get to live my own transition story with you." I said "Yup, you get to see your own daughter emerge." She giggled nervously. I asked, "Does that bug you, saying I am your daughter?" She said, "No, its just weird hearing it, I love you no matter what!"  ;D

I do wish Bruce well, and I am glad that he is now open about this and the paparazzi and media can stop speculating.

Bruce can finally wear his nail polish until it chips off! Yay!

Much love to you all!

-Jade
:-*

I agree. I think people flip out about the pronoun issue a little too much but that's just my opinion. Also I laughed at the nail polish comment because i thought that way for so long!

I really liked how Jenner brought up how much harder it can be for trans WOC, and I liked how the show chose to spell some of that out.  The show really did take it upon itself to teach and did a pretty good job of it.

I wish that we got a new name and request for proper pronouns because it is pretty awkward to write about respectfully.  It's hard to feel like it's ok to say "Bruce" or "him" when they made it pretty clear they identify as a woman.

Also, Kanye West the trans ally.  Who knew?

I just watched the interview.

Overall it was well done.

I am sure we will see more of Jenner over the next year.

Ok I will say it.

I liked that Jenner was not the stereotype of an atheist liberal democrat, and I think he's a gun owner too. He said he was a republican and a Christian. I think that is great because I want to see all political parties and the churches accept us. We won't get the fringe nutters but we will win over the middle. Look, I'm a libertarian and unashamed Christian and gun owner myself (both have nothing to do with each other btw). I thought some of my friends I know through local 2nd amendment advocacy organizations would think I am a freak or something. But I've had an unexpected acceptance from a good few of them. One even wants to encourage me to be an advocate for LGBT and 2nd amendment issues, such as what pink pistols does. I'm honestly not sure I want to do that but it goes to show that we are winning over people. Sure I lost a few friends who couldn't stop with the gossip but my other friends have been respectful at least to my face. They're having trouble with pronouns occasionally and one has a fixation on genitals but I'm giving them time and I'm hoping we can do something positive.

Quote from: jessical on April 25, 2015, 05:48:23 PM
He could have banked sperm before he started HRT.

For transgender women, the only absolute path to sterility is an orchiectomy, and a hysterectomy for trans men.  Femininizing hormones, especially coupled with anti-androgens, will eventually cause sperm production to cease for most people, which may or may not be reversible.  Some women remain fertile indefinitely, some have fertility restored by temporarily going off of HRT, and some are rendered sterile.  For men, T rarely causes permanent sterility, and they can actually become pregnant while on T; if this happens, hormones have to be stopped if the guy intends to carry the child to term.  Most men have highly diminished fertility while on T, and even after stopping it if they've taken it for a long time or are already approaching menopause.

So, yes, trans women can have children while on HRT.  There was a couple interviewed last year, I think, who have three biological kids - both parents are trans. 

If you think that you might ever want biological kids, banking sperm (or eggs) is your safest bet.  Banking eggs costs around $10,000 upfront and then storage fees (part of why I don't want to go on T indefinitely...).  Banking sperm costs around $1,500 per potential offspring, plus storage.

Contrary to popular belief, many transgender people want to and do have genetic offspring post-transition.

Last night my mom watched that interview with Bruce Jenner last night and now understands what I'm going through. She is more supportive than ever after watching. There is hope for me yet. After all these years of never truly seeing my own future, it has finally revealed itself. It is good and filled with light. Have faith my sisters, the light will shine on us all.

I don't have cable TV so I couldn't watch it live; I just finished watching the interview on the internet.

I really thought the interview was well done. You have to remember that we are the experts in all of this because we've lived it and judging the show from that position - maybe it could have used a few changes. However, the interview was targeted toward mainstream America that thinks we have all chosen to be this way for nefarious purposes, and from that standpoint I think that Diane Sawyer did a great job. I believe we should offer our support and abstain from any criticism of the interview. This is history in the making; a giant step towards us gaining acceptance.

I will have to admit to reaching for the tissues a few times, especially when the topics of acceptance by his family was touched upon. I think it's great that his mom said that she was proud of him in 76 and is proud of him now, and I think it's great that his relationship with his kids has survived intact and has maybe brought them closer together. I have to admit that I don't have the same level of acceptance and that hit me hard after watching the interview. I hope that some of the people that don't accept me watched the interview.

I also think that he has a lot of very famous people that will defend him when the media steps out of line. You could kind of see it happening during the interview at times. The media companies had better tread lightly in case their bread and butter relationship with the Kardashions gets cut off due to articles that disparage Bruce. I think it is this support system that will work behind the scenes to change peoples hearts and minds.

I wish her success in whatever she chooses to do going forward.

Quote from: iKate on April 25, 2015, 08:36:08 PM
Ok I will say it.

I liked that Jenner was not the stereotype of an atheist liberal democrat, and I think he's a gun owner too. He said he was a republican and a Christian. I think that is great because I want to see all political parties and the churches accept us. We won't get the fringe nutters but we will win over the middle. Look, I'm a libertarian and unashamed Christian and gun owner myself (both have nothing to do with each other btw). I thought some of my friends I know through local 2nd amendment advocacy organizations would think I am a freak or something. But I've had an unexpected acceptance from a good few of them. One even wants to encourage me to be an advocate for LGBT and 2nd amendment issues, such as what pink pistols does. I'm honestly not sure I want to do that but it goes to show that we are winning over people. Sure I lost a few friends who couldn't stop with the gossip but my other friends have been respectful at least to my face. They're having trouble with pronouns occasionally and one has a fixation on genitals but I'm giving them time and I'm hoping we can do something positive.

I am very liberal but I too liked that Jenner was like, "I'm a conservative, I believe in the constitution." Because maybe, just maybe, that will help make this not a political issue in the eyes of the people watching.  I feel like those lines being drawn in the sand can actually slow progress.

Quote from: Sabrina on April 25, 2015, 09:11:54 PM
Last night my mom watched that interview with Bruce Jenner last night and now understands what I'm going through. She is more supportive than ever after watching. There is hope for me yet. After all these years of never truly seeing my own future, it has finally revealed itself. It is good and filled with light. Have faith my sisters, the light will shine on us all.

There always was hope, for you and for all of us. If the interview helps others to understand us, the future will be better than ever!

*hugs*

*high five*

Congrats. Wonder if my father will watch it? Highly unlikely, me thinks. :-\

Sorry, I'm going to merge this with the main Bruce Jenner thread. To many threads on more or less the same subject gets confusing.

  My parents watched the program and enjoyed it.  I think for my own mother it helped her even more to hear someone else expressing a lot of the same feelings and experiences that I've tried to explain to her.  Mom tried today to explain the Jenner story to my grandmother but the poor old woman had never even heard of the concept of gender transition and was completely at a loss to comprehend it!  I'd been hoping I could come out to my grandmother soon so that she'd have some warning about my FFS and transition but it sounds like I'll have much more of a problem explaining it to her than I will having her accept it if she does eventually 'get it'.

Quote from: BunnyBee on April 25, 2015, 09:23:12 PM
I am very liberal but I too liked that Jenner was like, "I'm a conservative, I believe in the constitution." Because maybe, just maybe, that will help make this not a political issue in the eyes of the people watching.  I feel like those lines being drawn in the sand can actually slow progress.

Agreed! Not for nothing I don't care which party supports us. I just want us to be respected and to be quite honest, left alone. I just want to live my life on my own terms. All political parties can and should take note.

Diane was definitely shocked though.

Another thought. Jenner says s/he is a woman, but I get the feeling that s/he may end up being non-binary. I just get that vibe. Anyone else?

It wouldn't surprise me considering all the family ties that she is surround with, but I don't get that feeling. I feel she will transition at least to a certain extent.
Mariah

Quote from: iKate on April 25, 2015, 10:10:25 PM
Another thought. Jenner says s/he is a woman, but I get the feeling that s/he may end up being non-binary. I just get that vibe. Anyone else?

Quote from: Mariah2014 on April 25, 2015, 10:51:07 PM
It wouldn't surprise me considering all the family ties that she is surround with, but I don't get that feeling. I feel she will transition at least to a certain extent.
Mariah

Oh, I most certainly do see transition, but remember some people start off as MTF then go MTA or something else.

Tis true and that interview in many ways left us with more questions than answers that only time can tell if Ms Jenner decides for us to know those things.
Mariah

Quote from: iKate on April 25, 2015, 10:52:13 PM
Oh, I most certainly do see transition, but remember some people start off as MTF then go MTA or something else.

Watching the recording now here in Aussie...

Awkward, my SO wants to watch it, just waiting for a question that may force a discussion...

Ummm keep you posted girls... Not ready financially yet!!!

I am so nervous sitting here... Maybe it's my time?

L Katy

Quote from: katrinaw on April 26, 2015, 08:31:55 AM
Watching the recording now here in Aussie...

Awkward, my SO wants to watch it, just waiting for a question that may force a discussion...

Ummm keep you posted girls... Not ready financially yet!!!

I am so nervous sitting here... Maybe it's my time?

L Katy

I feel you on that, I came out to my Sweetie last June, she still has some trouble with it. She recorded the interview, but we haven't watched it yet. I have heard about it here and elsewhere. I'm very concerned that she'll listen to it, see how we differ and, once again, tell me, "you weren't like that, you're not trans."

Quote from: Ms Grace on April 25, 2015, 09:27:23 PM
Congrats. Wonder if my father will watch it? Highly unlikely, me thinks. :-\

Sorry, I'm going to merge this with the main Bruce Jenner thread. To many threads on more or less the same subject gets confusing.

I thought the same thing when I watched it. My father being the only person in my family who hasn't accept me as my true self.

My wife and I watched the interview last night (on TiVO.) I was delighted how well it was done. I though Diane Sawyer did an excellent job and they did try to explain things and they even had a website displayed to help people understand the terms that weren't clear in the interview. I think a lot of positive things will come from this especially considering Jenner spans across several generations. Jenner is well liked, a wonderful personality and seems very realistic. (Can't say some much for the Kardashians family, but I have to applaud there reactions to this for the most part.) At first I was upset they female pronouns were not used nor was their female name, however once Jenner explained that this was the last interview as Bruce and kind of a farewell to Bruce, it kind it made more sense.

I do feel that Jenner is holding out on a lot for the upcoming show which seems to be a little bit of a sell out, but that is Jenner's source of income, so it's not any different that someone writing a book about their transition. As long is the show/documentary is done tastefully (and I expect it will), then I think it will be great.

So many things about the interview really hit home. While all of our journeys are different there is a lot of commonality. At least now I think people who took the time to understand the interview now have a better and more realistic view for us that are transgender.

Quote from: Rainbow Dash on April 23, 2015, 10:14:40 PM
I just want this Jenner business over and done with. I'm tired of seeing it all over the place.  just think, every time someone comes out, how many times will people say, "Oh, so you're like Bruce Jenner?"

This is a bit of a double-edged sword.  I'm "like Bruce Jenner" in that I've lived a normal, healthy, and productive life as an athletic and fairly butch male... but I no longer feel right in the body I was born in.  If his^* approach to this is good as his transition continues, people will empathize with him and the process he's going through.  His experience has some similarity to my experience, so people will have an easier time transferring that empathy to my situation.

Haters are gonna hate, and some people will "assume that he's doing it for publicity."  Those are people who are jealous of his fame, and cannot even conceive of the reality that is gender dysphoria... so when they see the evidence before them, their empathy responses use the strongest neural pathways that resonate with the situation.  They don't understand what they haven't felt.  Explaining this stuff to some people is like explaining colors to the blind.

^* According to the articles I've read, Bruce still prefers male pronouns.  I'm going to respect that.

I didn't watch the interview because I don't have TV and I don't really like Jenner so, I didn't bother with it.  But that said, it's definitely true that not every transgender woman is super feminine; just like cisgender women, there can be incredible variation in identity and presentation.  Jenner may end up non-binary, or super butch, or super girly, or any combination of these things, and each one is totally valid. ^_^

The guns and conservatism, though... :P (Hence me not caring to watch).

Quote from: Dee Walker on April 26, 2015, 10:16:07 AM
I feel you on that, I came out to my Sweetie last June, she still has some trouble with it. She recorded the interview, but we haven't watched it yet. I have heard about it here and elsewhere. I'm very concerned that she'll listen to it, see how we differ and, once again, tell me, "you weren't like that, you're not trans."

Do you think it would help to preemptively tell her that trans people don't have a one size fits all story?

Quote from: Daisy Jane on April 26, 2015, 05:59:52 PM
Do you think it would help to preemptively tell her that trans people don't have a one size fits all story?

so far it hasn't. I must have told her that half a dozen times. She tends to forget parts of things that disturb her. She remembers a little more each time. Just takes patience.

Well we watched, I was nervously ready, it didn't come yet, I checked, I was flushed in anticipation... In some ways wish she had raised the question with me... After all, hard to hide changes... I think looking at the show has probably stirred thoughts...
As far as Ms Jenner, and I've never really watched the Kardashians, although I've caught odd parts of it... My thoughts are that she did not really do much more (and I did miss bits) than explain how we all come to the same point in our lives... However she won't be able to hide from the entourage of press and TV that will hound her. Still unsure of whether the outcomes will be a massive positive for the rest of the community or not... I know we all desire a really positive outcome.

Dee thanks for your comment on last June and current position, maybe she might surprise you? I was surprised that my nearest and dearest did not cast any caustic comments this time... Which is a first, but I think also may be my signal... Come-on job offers, need that income  >:-)

L Katy

The impact from that interview is what I would have expect so far. Clearly my friends are seeing comments that I'm not from people not on my list on facebook in regards to it and as result comments in regards to me because 2 of them took a huge stand without mentioning my name directly.
Mariah

Quote from: Ian68 on April 26, 2015, 04:58:01 PM
I didn't watch the interview because I don't have TV and I don't really like Jenner so, I didn't bother with it.  But that said, it's definitely true that not every transgender woman is super feminine; just like cisgender women, there can be incredible variation in identity and presentation.  Jenner may end up non-binary, or super butch, or super girly, or any combination of these things, and each one is totally valid. ^_^

The guns and conservatism, though... :P (Hence me not caring to watch).

There really wasn't any discussion of those subjects...Bruce did mention guns once, and looked quickly to one side (suggesting to me that he had guns down the hallway or similar), and Diane asked if he was a Republican, to which he dramatically looked to one side, then the other, then back to her and said in a low voice, "Yes."

He also mentioned that he liked the idea of having a "Tom-boy" feminine style.

I watched it with my local relatives, and everyone liked it. I liked especially that Diane (the host) mentioned "pronouns are very important." I also liked how Bruce shared what he was thinking in the image of him getting a Gold medal, and other times in his life when he seemed to be on top of the world, but one can catch quick glimpses of a great internal sadness. As we know, there is severe emotional turmoil (angst?) in wrestling with "should I transition? Am I a man? Am I a woman? What about my wife, family, job/income source, reputation, etc?" So much to think about and agonize over! It is literally to the core of a person's Being...and this, cis-people simply do not understand. But seeing a real person, a "hero" too, talk about these things with tears flowing...I appreciated it, since I don't cry when I'm in "teaching" mode.

It was my impression that this was Bruce's public goodbye, kind of like Bilbo's goodbye in LOTR..."I bid you all a very fond farewell." [whispers to Frodo] "Goodbye." Sometime in the next year or so we'll be introduced to Ms Jenner, whose name has not been revealed yet. He did suggest coyly that SRS may happen in the next year.

Posting from the desert, got sick of my brother, dad and his friend finally. Now they are blowing stuff up, but thankfully done talking about the LGBT stuff.

Haven't seen the interview myself, but it already has affected me. My youngest brother saw it yesterday morning I think, and I guess he was confused on the idea of trans. Which sparked my dad, brother, and surprisingly my aunt to talk pretty negative about trans people, finishing with something along the lines of only rich, mentally ill people being trans.

Then the conversation continued today, and mixed with politics, was bad enough that I walked away and emailed my friend about it.

Now I am pretty thankful I didn't come out ever. My family would probably tolerate me being trans, but I shall wait now until I know for sure it is safe. Thankful for the whole thing with Bruce because it has revealed my family's opinions, and given me a possible chance to come out safely in the future.

Now to go charge my phone and hope they are done with the explosions.... Really don't want to have someone go to the hospital again this trip...

Quote from: Beth Andrea on April 26, 2015, 09:58:02 PM

I also liked how Bruce shared what he was thinking

...one can catch quick glimpses of a great internal sadness. As we know, there is severe emotional turmoil (angst?) in wrestling with "should I transition? Am I a man? Am I a woman? What about my wife, family, job/income source, reputation, etc?" So much to think about and agonize over! It is literally to the core of a person's Being...and this, cis-people simply do not understand. But seeing a real person, a "hero" too, talk about these things with tears flowing...I appreciated it...

Fully agree with the above observations, it is hard, its exactly where I am, and have been before... I personally never went on HRT prior to when I did... stopping would have been very hard... The last 10 for me on HRT, absolutely determined to change are still hampered by my torment on how I break the news to all my close family (Wife, Kids, Grandkids etc...)

That and my desire to fully be me is what still brings me to tears some nights!

I think Ms Jenner was genuine, definitely brave actually bringing it all onto TV...

As I may have mentioned before definitely going to polarise people tho...

L Katy  :-*

I finally just watched it.   The things that truly stood out to me were the acknowledgement of statistics for transwomen of color and the fact that Ms. Jenner may have the ears of conservative lawmakers in this country.  If we can flip them, the battle for our civil rights is won.

I have google now installed on my tablet and in addition to the weather and info on my two favorite baseball teams and updates to websites I go to frequently it shows news related to topics I've read recently. It presented me with an article about Kris Jenner and their marriage from a sleezy gossip rag. I ignored it as long as possible but, like a train wreck you just can't look. I have no idea, and little interest, in the truth of the story but the take away is that even some sleezy gossip rags are taking Bruce's side. Imagine that!

Quote from: Jill F on April 27, 2015, 01:24:10 AM
I finally just watched it.   The things that truly stood out to me were the acknowledgement of statistics for transwomen of color and the fact that Ms. Jenner may have the ears of conservative lawmakers in this country.  If we can flip them, the battle for our civil rights is won.

Honestly, even if the Republican leadership personally agreed with our cause behind close doors, they would never publicly support us. Going so far against "Christian values" would get nearly all of them ousted by Michelle Bachmann and Todd Akin types in the next election.

Quote from: Jill F on April 27, 2015, 01:24:10 AM
I finally just watched it.   The things that truly stood out to me were the acknowledgement of statistics for transwomen of color and the fact that Ms. Jenner may have the ears of conservative lawmakers in this country.  If we can flip them, the battle for our civil rights is won.

I will go one step further and say that there should not really be" flipping" going on but a return to the principles of the founders, particularly the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

A lot of "conservatives" have lost their way and have strayed so far from this. Returning to this will solve a lot of issues including ours.

Quote from: Daisy Jane on April 27, 2015, 07:29:15 AM
Honestly, even if the Republican leadership personally agreed with our cause behind close doors, they would never publicly support us. Going so far against "Christian values" would get nearly all of them ousted by Michelle Bachmann and Todd Akin types in the next election.

I doubt it, the GOP is badly trying to shed her. Only the fringe nuts are hanging on to people like her.

Quote from: iKateI will go one step further and say that there should not really be" flipping" going on but a return to the principles of the founders, particularly the Declaration of Independence.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed."

A lot of "conservatives" have lost their way and have strayed so far from this. Returning to this will solve a lot of issues including ours.

Actually, a return to the "principles of the founders" wouldn't be such a great thing. When they wrote "all men are created equal," they meant men, and white men at that. Women... not created equal... people of color... not created equal (at that point, whether black Africans were even fully human was open to debate).

When many conservative types talk about "returning to the principles of the founders," that, in their hearts, is what they actually want to return to: a system in which white guys run things, because they're inherently better than everyone else. It's taken the hell of a long time to make inroads in those beliefs and for people who aren't white men to begin to have their rights respected; let's, for goodness' sake, not encourage that kind of conservatism.

That's exactly why I try to point that out to them. People don't realize the problem with that idea and what they are actually wanting.
Mariah

Quote from: Tysilio on April 27, 2015, 10:19:10 AM
Actually, a return to the "principles of the founders" wouldn't be such a great thing. When they wrote "all men are created equal," they meant men, and white men at that. Women... not created equal... people of color... not created equal (at that point, whether black Africans were even fully human was open to debate).

When many conservative types talk about "returning to the principles of the founders," that, in their hearts, is what they actually want to return to: a system in which white guys run things, because they're inherently better than everyone else. It's taken the hell of a long time to make inroads in those beliefs and for people who aren't white men to begin to have their rights respected; let's, for goodness' sake, not encourage that kind of conservatism.

I don't do that as much as I did, but when I first came out there was my Allen half and my Ashley half. (Its more like Ashley 70% Allen 30%), but I don't try to separate my gender sides anymore.

I do think it would have been beneficial if he asked for female pronouns instead of male pronouns. Its confusing to even me.

Quote from: marsh monster on April 24, 2015, 10:46:36 PM
Jenner apparently told her to use he/him for now, that was mentioned in the show. I imagine that this is all very difficult for Jenner being under so much scrutiny in their everyday life and knowing that people are following, even to the point of putting a tracker on the vehicle Jenner drives. Jenner is also not allowing themselves to be photographed dressed as a woman as Jenner needs to come fully out in their own way and time that makes them comfortable and we should respect that.

And really, its like Jenner is kind of separating Bruce from "her" like they are different people for now. Probably due to the extreme pressure put on by the media. Overall, I though the interview was good and positive and ABC did put some effort towards educating those watching, which is commendable.

Quote from: Tysilio on April 27, 2015, 10:19:10 AM
Actually, a return to the "principles of the founders" wouldn't be such a great thing. When they wrote "all men are created equal," they meant men, and white men at that. Women... not created equal... people of color... not created equal (at that point, whether black Africans were even fully human was open to debate).

When many conservative types talk about "returning to the principles of the founders," that, in their hearts, is what they actually want to return to: a system in which white guys run things, because they're inherently better than everyone else. It's taken the hell of a long time to make inroads in those beliefs and for people who aren't white men to begin to have their rights respected; let's, for goodness' sake, not encourage that kind of conservatism.

There were debates about this, and those arguing that it applied to white men only also argued that it the Declaration was just worded this way to (paraphrased) get away from England. Lincoln famously turned this around, and the end result was the end of slavery.

Personally I like the idea of self determination.

QuoteThere were debates about this, and those arguing that it applied to white men only also argued that it the Declaration was just worded this way to (paraphrased) get away from England. Lincoln famously turned this around, and the end result was the end of slavery.

Not exactly... applying the "all men" principle to everyone required two constitutional amendments: the 14th, which addressed, among other things, the citizenship rights of ex-slaves, and was passed in 1868, well after Lincoln's death; and the 19th, which recognized the citizenship rights of women, and wasn't passed until 1919. The founding fathers were long gone by the time either of these were passed.

Even if the Emancipation Proclamation was the "beginning of the end" of slavery, it still took 87 years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.  Had the founding fathers actually been in favor of citizenship rights for women and black people (there were free blacks at the time, whose civil rights were also very restricted), they had plenty of time (there were 12 years between the Declaration of Independence and the ratification of the Constitution) to make that the law of the land.

The belief in the inferiority of women and people of color was deeply ingrained among the founding fathers, and it still runs very deep today. This is why the rhetoric of returning to "original principles" and using them as a guide to interpreting the Constitution is, in my opinion, very dangerous.

I like the idea of self-determination too, but it's naive to think that it was something for which there was wide support in the 18th century.

Omg, I just quoted Kanye West to my mom regarding B.J. (nothing to do with ME, of course,, no way ;) ...) whilst also mentioning Kim Kardashian in the same sentence.  I feel uneasy, like my reality is all topsy turvy.

It was so much easier when I could simply write off that media circus / "those" people as being incapable of producing a substantive thought. Let alone an undeniable truth. This?? This is what it's taken for me to break the ice about being transsexual to my family?

Still, I like the foundation it provides. All of our rights may not have been recognized in the founding documents.

Hell, even the bill of rights not part of the constitution originally.

It still beats the heck out of being ruled over by a royal family or dictator and having the Government decide how, when and even why you live your life to every nth degree.

O well,, I (italics)tried to steer it back on topic..

So...what did everyone think of the "negligée" style dress they showed? Wow! He's braver than I would be...

Quote from: femmebutt on April 27, 2015, 01:26:29 PM
Omg, I just quoted Kanye West to my mom regarding B.J. (nothing to do with ME, of course,, no way...) whilst also mentioning Kim Kardashian in the same sentence.  I feel uneasy, like my reality is all topsy turvy.

It was so much easier when I could simply write off that media circus / "those" people as being incapable of producing a substantive thought. Let alone an undeniable truth. This?? This is what it's taken for me to break the ice about being transsexual to my family?

I also cringe at referencing anything that Kanye said, LOL!

On other forums they are talking about the interview. What I have found is that most people are supportive. Those who aren't are largely keeping their comments down.

I think we have a wave coming.

Quote from: iKate on April 27, 2015, 01:47:15 PM

I think we have a wave coming.

I'll go get my surfboard, lol

I spent last night browsing the comments sections of various UK newspapers and I'm happy to report that the vast majority of comments are positive.
The negative comments are primarily from people stating that they don't like anything to do with the Kardashians, there are very few negative comments about people transitioning so for the most part this has been a positive thing for the trans community worldwide

I saw one negative comment from a former 'friend' of mine, but this guy is pretty much a very unpleasant person to be around, in that he's very boorish and very proud of it. He also complains that no women want to date him.

The comment was along the lines that Jenner is not a real woman. First and only one I've seen among people I know.

Quote from: iKate on April 27, 2015, 01:47:15 PM
I also cringe at referencing anything that Kanye said, Lol!

Seriously, Kate! Tho I chalk that up more to my being white and nerdy and never having given any effort to realizing his "genius"
***recalls that hurricane Katrina comment with Mike Myers (a personal fav)

I was only kidding about being off topic, btw! 

You had to say "white and nerdy", Femmebutt! Now I have Weird Al stuck in my head.

Only I can say everybody deserve to be happy and no matter what they say... I send her all the energy and good vibes..

Quote from: Dee Walker on April 27, 2015, 03:22:59 PM
You had to say "white and nerdy", Femmebutt! Now I have Weird Al stuck in my head.

I was wondering who would get the reference... You win!

Quote from: awilliams1701 on April 27, 2015, 11:18:21 AM
I don't do that as much as I did, but when I first came out there was my Allen half and my Ashley half. (Its more like Ashley 70% Allen 30%), but I don't try to separate my gender sides anymore.

I do think it would have been beneficial if he asked for female pronouns instead of male pronouns. Its confusing to even me.

The way I see it, Jenner is entitled to ask for whichever pronouns he wishes to use, and shouldn't feel pushed into using female pronouns or male pronouns. Every person's experiences and preferences are different, and if he wishes to use a different name/pronouns until he's comfortable with feminine ones, it's all good.

The interview made it clear that people have different preferences, different experiences, and was very considerate of all identities and narratives.

Quote from: erisrenee on April 27, 2015, 08:18:13 PM
The interview made it clear that people have different preferences, different experiences, and was very considerate of all identities and narratives.

Yes, that's why I liked it so much. Too many pieces seem to focus on a very narrow narrative, whereas this interview managed to touch on a lot of the diversity.

I stand by my take on it...while it's a great way to really get us out there in terms of visibility and possible acceptance, I'm highly irritated that it took someone from that annoying family coming out to get to that point. I mean, don't get me wrong - good on her, I'm glad she's finally free to be herself, but...seriously. It took Bruce Jenner coming out for "transgender" to become a household word in that respect. Jesus christ.

Quote from: StrykerXIII on April 27, 2015, 08:50:01 PM
I stand by my take on it...while it's a great way to really get us out there in terms of visibility and possible acceptance, I'm highly irritated that it took someone from that annoying family coming out to get to that point. I mean, don't get me wrong - good on her, I'm glad she's finally free to be herself, but...seriously. It took Bruce Jenner coming out for "transgender" to become a household word in that respect. Jesus christ.

I was chatting with my yankee neighbor today about the interview and general stuff and one of the things we agreed on was that for most of us older people, we recall Bruce from the seventies for being such a great athlete, the reality show thing is just recent and not a big factor in how we viewed Bruce. So if it takes someone like Bruce Jenner(world famous athlete) to come out as trans to make people think and talk openly about it, then great.

Quote from: marsh monster on April 27, 2015, 08:55:54 PM
I was chatting with my yankee neighbor today about the interview and general stuff and one of the things we agreed on was that for most of us older people, we recall Bruce from the seventies for being such a great athlete, the reality show thing is just recent and not a big factor in how we viewed Bruce. So if it takes someone like Bruce Jenner(world famous athlete) to come out as trans to make people think and talk openly about it, then great.

I'm too young to know Bruce as an athlete, and I don't keep up with sports of any sort anyway. I'd never even heard the name til all that Kardashian crap popped up. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I definitely see it as a great way to make the world better for us. I just have a slightly more narrowed view of the world, willing to admit to that, and therefore it makes me shake my head a little. I'll probably cringe the first time I tell someone I'm trans and they reference Bruce Jenner. But it's definitely a good thing.

Quote from: StrykerXIII on April 27, 2015, 09:00:33 PM
I'm too young to know Bruce as an athlete, and I don't keep up with sports of any sort anyway. I'd never even heard the name til all that Kardashian crap popped up. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I definitely see it as a great way to make the world better for us. I just have a slightly more narrowed view of the world, willing to admit to that, and therefore it makes me shake my head a little. I'll probably cringe the first time I tell someone I'm trans and they reference Bruce Jenner. But it's definitely a good thing.

Yeah, back in the day, people actually gained notoriety for doing great things that had nothing to do with reality tv, lol.  I may grumble at times about being in my fifties, but one nice thing is that I got to see great things growing up as they happened and got to see major social changes and technical innovations through the years as well.

Quote from: StrykerXIII on April 27, 2015, 08:50:01 PM
It took Bruce Jenner coming out for "transgender" to become a household word in that respect.

Talked about the interview with my wife last night.  She remarked that "Queer eye for the straight guy" had a significant impact on viewers' view of gay marriage.  People of a certain age get all of their information from television.  If their entire exposure to the trans* community is stereotypical misogynist drag queens, are they wrong for drawing the natural conclusion from that?  All we can work with is the information we've received.

What I like^* about Jenner's story is that it's discontinuous.  It's messy.  It's real.  He's suffered, struggled, taken false starts.  Gotten dumped by an ex for it.  When the world got to know Laverne Cox, she was already "drop-dead gorgeous".  She's accepted as a woman because that's how most people came to know her.  But Bruce?  People are actually going to witness a transition.  As a hidden bonus, they're  seeing a glimpse of nonbinary gender with the pronoun ambivalence.  And they aren't going to change the channel 'cause it's the most interesting thing on.  They're fascinated by their ignorance, and they're going to learn.

^* I should be clear, I don't like watching anybody suffer... I like that it's being brought out into the open.

Quote from: sparrow on April 27, 2015, 09:13:48 PM
Talked about the interview with my wife last night.  She remarked that "Queer eye for the straight guy" had a significant impact on viewers' view of gay marriage.  People of a certain age get all of their information from television.  If their entire exposure to the trans* community is stereotypical misogynist drag queens, are they wrong for drawing the natural conclusion from that?  All we can work with is the information we've received.

What I like^* about Jenner's story is that it's discontinuous.  It's messy.  It's real.  He's suffered, struggled, taken false starts.  Gotten dumped by an ex for it.  When the world got to know Laverne Cox, she was already "drop-dead gorgeous".  She's accepted as a woman because that's how most people came to know her.  But Bruce?  People are actually going to witness a transition.  As a hidden bonus, they're  seeing a glimpse of nonbinary gender with the pronoun ambivalence. And they aren't going to change the channel 'cause it's the most interesting thing on.  They're fascinated by their ignorance, and they're going to learn.

^* I should be clear, I don't like watching anybody suffer... I like that it's being brought out into the open.

+1 for that, check your rep!

Hugs, Devlyn

I haven't seen the full interview yet, but what I saw was pretty good, all things considered!

Then I looked at the comments... and it was pretty horrible. I didn't think there'd be as much hate as there was.. but it was an official news site, so I guess all camps go there..

Quote from: StrykerXIII on April 27, 2015, 09:00:33 PM
... I'll probably cringe the first time I tell someone I'm trans and they reference Bruce Jenner...

Really good points, sparrow!  I could rep you x2 for that.  That may have even lifted my inclination to cringe when I first get B.J.'d ! (Am I a total jerk for trying to make that a verb?)

I've heard people say this was our "Ellen" moment.  Such big strides being made.  Remember 3 years ago, when everything was different?

Quote from: femmebutt on April 27, 2015, 09:59:40 PM

Really good points, sparrow!  I could rep you x2 for that.  That may have even lifted my inclination to cringe when I first get B.J.'d ! (Am I a total jerk for trying to make that a verb?)

B.J.'d...laughed way too friggin' hard at that one.

Quote from: marsh monster on April 27, 2015, 09:08:36 PM
Yeah, back in the day, people actually gained notoriety for doing great things that had nothing to do with reality tv, lol.  I may grumble at times about being in my fifties, but one nice thing is that I got to see great things growing up as they happened and got to see major social changes and technical innovations through the years as well.

Jenner's win in the '76 Olympics was really inspirational for me.  I had followed him all through the Olympics that year and became a huge fan.  That win stays fresh in my memory to this day and I get goose bumps just thinking about it.  I've never seen a single Kardashian show, so whatever Jenner's participation in that was, my opinion of him has been unaffected.  I just remember him as a hero, and his work ethic that got him there, inspired me often.

We the new Bruce began to emerge, we all knew where he was going. (I'm using pronouns as per Jenner's request during the interview.)  I know a couple of public figures who came out.  They were nowhere near as well known as Jenner but both described the public frenzy surrounding their coming out as very difficult and challenging, even hellish.  So it wouldn't have surprised me if Jenner continued to try to transition in private (impossible though it was.)  That he agreed to do the interview is commendable, regardless of the reason.  I thought he handled things pretty well.  And I was happy to see the interview didn't become a dress up party.

As for Bruce's request to use his birth name and male pronouns, I understood that to be just for that interview, which would be his last as a man, and until he came out as a woman.  I get that.  Bruce is about 1-1/2 years older than me.  I transitioned at 58.  Bruce is now 65.  No matter how you feel during your life, the longer you remain in the gender role of your birth, the more time it will take to realize that what you've wanted all your life is finally becoming a reality.  I fully understand wanting to ease into it rather than one day being male, the next female.  And as far as the people around you go, slow is far easier on them and you need them in your life at a time like this.

I was with a bunch of other trans folks last night, and someone made a slip of the tongue and referred to "Bruce Gender."

Not the last time that happens, I bet.

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Nice! Hahahah

Well, it happened. Wasn't expecting this so fast! My first time as patient with this dermatologist who had an under study with her, "shadowing".  So the Dr. was explaining the different treatments I am interested in and said regarding one, "but you wouldn't want that. That's more for a feminine look." Perfect opportunity! I clue her in that I'm medically transitioning. Without pause she asked about hrt and who my primary doctor is - conveying pure acceptance and concern. Then the shadow chimes in with a "like, eww"  attitude "how about that Bruce Jenner? Why is he  trying to get all that attention in the media? What a circus!" 

I cringed in a way I hadn't expected.

I kept my cool and launched a strong defense but didn't want to make her feel stupid. "I was amazed what a real person he is! It's great that he could help being attention to the difficulties trans people face...   what courage it must have taken to come out to millions of people. I mean, some of us have a hard time facing the scrutiny of the grocery store. Etc etc" I spoke enthusiastically.

Yeah, I stood up for you, person formerly known as Bruce. Cuz when it comes down to it I have nothing but respect and gratitude for you. I'll try to keep the jokes tasteful, please try to do the same with all the attention.

Is there a place to watch the entire interview online? Abc 20/20 has a link but you have to be a cable subscriber or satellite to login and watch it.

It's on hulu, or at least was the other day.  You may have to do the free trial thing for hulu plus.

yeah that requires hulu plus (well if I want to watch it now) or I can wait a week (just like abc)

Shawn there is,  which is available through watchabc requires cable/ sat subscription.
Mariah

I'm glad for him/her but it sure would be nice to have a "glam" room as he/she plans. Overall I think it's good for mtF people all over the planet. Most people are preoccupied with their lives, rightly so & never think about it.

Tabloids seem mixed.

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Vs
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Tabloids are just that.  I've read like six different names, that Ms. Jenner has already been to Thailand and paid $1,500(!) for GRS, one of the Kardashian kids is actually OJ Simpson's, and all sorts of other nonsense.  Tabloids exist to sell tabloids, nothing more.  Maybe I can lose 30 pounds in 30 days now just like Kim did by following her secret diet plan? 

I was more shocked that Us weekly was positive.

As for me I'm more old school, national enquirer and weekly world news.

Quote from: iKate on April 28, 2015, 07:05:42 PM
I was more shocked that Us weekly was positive.

As for me I'm more old school, national enquirer and weekly world news.

We used that as wallpaper in college.  Did they ever discover the origin of Batboy? LOL...

InTouch seems to be the gold standard in shamelessness these days.   They were the ones who photoshopped Jenner's face onto one of an actress.  Get over it folks, this taboo is getting smashed as we speak and a dwindling minority will salute that flag now when raised.

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There is my own tabloid from the future.

Quote from: Shawn Sunshine on April 28, 2015, 05:34:03 PM
Is there a place to watch the entire interview online? Abc 20/20 has a link but you have to be a cable subscriber or satellite to login and watch it.

  If you don't mind using a torrent downloader then you can get it that way and even in 720p.  When it aired I missed the first hour because I wasn't home from work yet so I downloaded it the following evening and watched it whole.

Just wanted to leave this up. IDK why but this picture makes me sooooo happy. I think thats the first time i've ever seen her smile. And she looks great! This was taken on saturday

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One thing I don't understand about him (he asked for male pronouns I'm sticking to it for now). If he wants to transition on a new reality show, why is he always wearing a hoodie and trying to hide from the media? It would make since if he DIDN'T want a new reality show. I don't get it. You're out girl! You don't have to hide anymore!

I think it would be a bit annoying to have the media in your face 24/7, no matter who you are. 

Which goes back to my question of why have a reality TV show?

Quote from: awilliams1701 on April 29, 2015, 12:53:36 PM
Which goes back to my question of why have a reality TV show?

Control over how things are presented.

I am choosing not to call it a "reality" show because, in my opinion, that term immediately conjures up negative connotations.  E! Entertainment channel is calling it a "docu-series" which I hope would mean its more of a documentary presentation which to me comes across more factual in nature and no buffoonery. 

Because the interview was presented in such a positive way, fingers crossed that this upcoming show will be done as well or better. 

Well girls I have an opinion on this... based on my experience before and after the interview.
My ex and I were so excited for Bruce.. coming out finally in a public way. We anticipated this for months.. after all he is the greatest athlete to ever live in many folks opinions and well known to the older crowd.
We thought it was going to be a positive thing.. and it was.
I have seen some trans girls be negative on this..
There are positives and negatives to everything.. I feel the positive for exceeds the negative fore what Bruce did and I have personal examples.
Following days after interview I had several calls, texts and emails.
Most saying how proud they are to know me and know such a brave and courageous person.  I had many say they understand more now than ever and so wish me well.
One of my neighbors said wow you are the talk of the neighborhood now.. I said what do you mean.. he said he was with a group of neighbors and someone said did you see the Bruce Jenner story?  And one spoke up and said thats nothing we have our own Bruce Jenner right here and was an amazing athlete.. remember.. and my name came up.. and they were all positive remarks...
All along, If someone posted.. not here but FB negative things I would ask why and they would get offended..
I chose to live glass half full, Live not as a victim but as victorious.. and I am.
Love you Bruce.. I could care less if they do the reality show... it would be done well and I love that we have Bruce out there as an example that this can happen to anyone... even me!!
My two cents
Dodie/Keri

Quote from: TransSasha on April 29, 2015, 12:22:27 PM
Just wanted to leave this up. IDK why but this picture makes me sooooo happy. I think thats the first time i've ever seen her smile. And she looks great! This was taken on saturday

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Yes, she does look great in that picture; pretty  :)

Today I heard one of my coworkers talk about Jenner. It was the first time I even heard anyone mention it.

Those magazine write untrue stuff about all of the Kardashian, not just Ms. Jenner, I feel like it's not right to use male pronouns at this point. I think I heard that she said that the interview with Diana Sawyer was the last interview as "Bruce", and therefore I think that male pronouns were only ok for that interview only.

  I am not concerned about the pronouns in this case at this time. Bruce is only 2 years older than me and Bruce and I have similar timelines on the transition. I've got the same ponytail and similar clothing at this point as Bruce's. I came out to my mother in 1977, a year after Bruce won the Olympic Gold Medal for the Decathlon and was selling a lot of Wheaties. This is a good case of us transitioning whilst old. Patience please, give Bruce and me time.

Joelene

I loved watching this interview (after the fact, on ABC's website). I had been avoiding anything on Jenner because of all the cruel jokes I had been hearing, but I saw my therapist the day after it aired, and she had watched it. I didn't even know about it until then. I went home and watched it. I came out publicly the same day. That interview was a big part of it, as previously only a few people knew. Watching that interview helped me immensely. I loved every second of it.

Quote from: kittenpower on April 29, 2015, 02:07:22 PM
Yes, she does look great in that picture; pretty  :)

Peaceful, confident,, "knowing" grin.
Media = pwned

Omgosh! Lemme post one more time about her!! Quick!!!

I love hearing that this interview has helped people.

So do I. It seems like the few who were vocal in the opposite direction have become mostly silent again.
Mariah

Quote from: awilliams1701 on April 30, 2015, 01:43:00 PM
I love hearing that this interview has helped people.

Most of the negative comments I saw or heard, seem to be coming from people who are making Bruce's experience all about them.

I guess everyone is going to have their own opinions on anything, and that's fine. Good, even. All I know is how the interview impacted me. I'm getting nothing but support from friends and fam, but as I explain to people I know who are asking questions (and it's good that they are!), this interview is proving to be invaluable in helping me explain myself.

It wasn't that long ago that "stealth" was the only safe way to transition.  There was nothing positive in the media like you occasionally see now. Being TG was like having ebola.  I was convinced I would not see any dramatic change, toward the positive, in society's attitude toward Trans people. At least not in my lifetime.

I watched the interview and occasionally I cringed.  Other times I felt like Jenner was taking words out of my mouth.  But never was I expecting much of a positive reaction following the interview.  Then, after the interview, I saw real human compassion towards a Trans person. Sure, there were the phobes, throwing their barbs, devoid of any thought.  But there seemed to be far more positive comments, certainly more than I ever expected.

Maybe the most unaccepted of all TGs is the late transitioner.  After hormones, social demands and conditioning have done their damage, and after spending decades living life in their birth gender, they are the ones who seem to be most reviled, most criticized and most dehumanized.  Then along comes Bruce Jenner, the good-looking, masculine man and onetime hero of so many Americans.  At the age of 65.  And he announces he is Trans and will be transitioning to female. 

That was probably a "wow moment" for many who knew Bruce back in the Olympic hero days. And I think some of them, who are more likely to be transphobic than those who first knew Jenner through the Kardashians, finally got it.  This isn't a choice.  This is just who you are.  And just maybe, some of them got an inkling of what it must be like being pressured to live a life that's not you because you fear you'll become an outcast if you don't.

I really didn't think another public coming out would make any difference, but I'm beginning to think I was wrong. 

It has more impact here than I thought

I was on the bus, on the way to the YMCA when I spotted an older man in his 70s sporting a hat and what i would call golfers casual clothing. In his hand was this book here:

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So I was quite surprised. Was this person secretly transgender and picked up the book and brought it on the bus to explore? Was he perhaps a Grandparent who due to the Bruce Jenner Interview, decided to get some material to try to understand it better. Whatever the case may be, I really do think we are seeing a trend towards goodness here. Sure this is San Francisco  (where I live) , but It was still surprising.

The interview went a lot better than I thought it would. Ii don't think it was right for me to assume it would be some horrible spectacle that would make a joke of trans people. I'm sorry.

I had that fear myself. Its perfectly rational. The Khardashians are considered a joke. Most people in my generation know him from that. Actually in my case I only knew of him from everyone making fun of him since I refuse to watch that garbage. I was so worried that it would be taken as a joke, but I'm so glad I was wrong. I just wish he had asked for female pronouns. I find it confusing.

Quote from: rachel89 on May 01, 2015, 12:45:05 PM
The interview went a lot better than I thought it would. Ii don't think it was right for me to assume it would be some horrible spectacle that would make a joke of trans people. I'm sorry.

Please everyone, do not read too much into the pronoun thing with Bruce Jenner. 

That name and image, independent of the human being they are attached to, are a money making business that has been in operation since 1976.  I have a feeling that, like it or not, "Bruce Jenner" has a lot of legal and contractual obligations that need to be sorted out or wound up before the butterfly can shed the chrysalis.

This is probably the reason for things being done the way they are.  One last interview as Bruce Jenner, then a break of several months while the lawyers and the surgeons work their behind the scenes magic, then we get a new reality show in late July, with a beautiful new someone at the center of things waging a very public fight for acceptance.

I think the main thing about the choice of pronouns is that it's Jenner's to make. He said that right now he still prefers masculine pronouns, and that's good enough for me. I'll refer to him that way until he says otherwise. (Not that he'll ever know, of course, but for me it's a matter of respect.)

It's not about what makes us comfortable, it's about his own comfort with his transition and the pace at which he chooses to make it. None of us would be happy if someone were to say to us, "Well, I think you should be using different pronouns!"

His transition, his rules.