So as the title says. :(. In the past few months ive been clocked more than need be. Its strange because im not quite sure why. My surgeon was dr cardenas, but I have gotton regular recomendations from other doctors and they tell me I dont need anything else! And that anything else would to subtle changea. This is frustrating because I dont want to be clocked unintentionally. Im supposedly stelth at work, howver ive been clocked there a few times. Does any have a third party app such as kik? Or email I can send picw to for recommendations? And advice... im literally mind boggled... right now I just want a whole new face. I have no idea what it could be. My voice is suuperb. Never got the chance to get deep... as well as no adams apple. Im confused.. maybe its my 5"8 height?? Stressed...
Hi, sorry to hear something's not working for you. Passing isn't all about looks though... presentation, clothes, hair, posture...? Could be height but I'm 6'3" and not having the issue you seem to be having.
So sorry to hear that. Grace hit this on the nose though much of passing is other little things and not necessary how our face or breasts look. Hugs.
Mariah
Also, what do you mean by "clocked" exactly - are people calling you "sir" or misgendering you? Or are they staring intently at you? Or are they maybe just glancing at you? If it's the latter it probably isn't being read, it's probably "wow, she looks nice"... :)
Quote from: Ms Grace on May 02, 2015, 10:48:09 PM
Also, what do you mean by "clocked" exactly - are people calling you "sir" or misgendering you? Or are they staring intently at you? Or are they maybe just glancing at you? If it's the latter it probably isn't being read, it's probably "wow, she looks nice"... :)
Yeah its so weird cuz I get hit on a lot by guys! There has only been one time I was called sir... hut then later she corrected herself after doing it a lot. I also went on a date and a guy asked me was I a man. Wow. I hate to even say that.. crushes me. Now, im told all the time im absolutely gorge... but in a male way or woman way. Someone told me I look like michael jackson ... I dont know if this is good or bad
For some reason I just feel completely un fixable.
Quote from: Mariah2014 on May 02, 2015, 10:10:39 PM
So sorry to hear that. Grace hit this on the nose though much of passing is other little things and not necessary how our face or breasts look. Hugs.
Mariah
Give you face time to heal. You might look like you have had work done and that could be bringing the attention and people questioning your gender. It take a long time for the face to settle, then once it settles it needs to mold and age along with you, kinda get broken in. How long ago did you have surgery?
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 02, 2015, 10:55:22 PM
Yeah its so weird cuz I get hit on a lot by guys! There has only been one time I was called sir... hut then later she corrected herself after doing it a lot. I also went on a date and a guy asked me was I a man. Wow. I hate to even say that.. crushes me. Now, im told all the time im absolutely gorge... but in a male way or woman way. Someone told me I look like michael jackson ... I dont know if this is good or bad
Re the date - there are just some people who can tell, doesn't matter what you do. Keep in mind he may ask that of a lot of genetic women too because he's a jerk.
Also, good advice from Danielle.
Loveless
Do you wear any makeup? A little does go a long way to correcting any androgyny left in your face, so do try it if you aren't using it.
Regarding people who find you attractive, but may not be sure of your gender - this is not a disaster, although I perfectly understand your distress. Some guys are just attracted to androgynous reatures. Believe this if you will: before my FFS I was stopped by random interested guys many more times than since having my FFS. And, with a bit of makeup, I always pass now. Weird... :D
It sounds like you're a pretty balanced person, so gently correct people when they get it wrong and just move on...
xxx
Julia
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 02, 2015, 10:55:22 PM
Yeah its so weird cuz I get hit on a lot by guys! There has only been one time I was called sir... hut then later she corrected herself after doing it a lot. I also went on a date and a guy asked me was I a man. Wow. I hate to even say that.. crushes me. Now, im told all the time im absolutely gorge... but in a male way or woman way. Someone told me I look like michael jackson ... I dont know if this is good or bad
Quote from: Danielle11746 on May 03, 2015, 12:16:35 AM
Give you face time to heal. You might look like you have had work done and that could be bringing the attention and people questioning your gender. It take a long time for the face to settle, then once it settles it needs to mold and age along with you, kinda get broken in. How long ago did you have surgery?
Last june. I only did partial ffs tho.... but I passed bfor ffs about 50 percnt of the time. Ive always had androgynous face.. but I am to gt more ffs... so maybe thats why... I just felt to past right now since everyone keeps telling me I dont need anything
Quote from: Julia-Madrid on May 03, 2015, 12:44:56 AM
Loveless
Do you wear any makeup? A little does go a long way to correcting any androgyny left in your face, so do try it if you aren't using it.
Regarding people who find you attractive, but may not be sure of your gender - this is not a disaster, although I perfectly understand your distress. Some guys are just attracted to androgynous reatures. Believe this if you will: before my FFS I was stopped by random interested guys many more times than since having my FFS. And, with a bit of makeup, I always pass now. Weird... :D
It sounds like you're a pretty balanced person, so gently correct people when they get it wrong and just move on...
xxx
Julia
You are right.. I do wear make up and pass 100 percent of the time. Its only whn I dont... but im a simple girl... I dont like makeup all the timee! I only got a rhinoplast and pass now most of the time but iidk if people are think is that a man.. or wow she could be a model.. im told the second one a lot. Idk...I am due to have some more tweaks done to my face, for improvement... but surgeon says it would be subtle cuz I already look feminine.
Clocking is not only face, there are also various subtle factors as the way you walk, mannerism and if you 'over-feminize' your gestures that's a clocking factor too. And it could be your body form, lack of hips, curves etc...If you want send me your face in private, I'll tell if it's that. I'm more a less an expert in pinning. ;)
Speech patterns have given me away. Have you checked into a speech therapist so see if that could be the clue?
This may sound silly.
Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).
I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.
from a >30 year transition perspective / lesbian perspective
my cis partner "gets clocked", so have many of my cis friends over the years. sometimes it pisses them off, other times they f&ck with the people who can't get it right. It really has to do with people's stereotypical images of gender. My best description of this is when a group of us, leather wearing biker women, went through a buffet line after leading a gay pride march. Almost every other food server said sir or ma'am to us, we got a big laugh out of it. I'm 6'3", occasionally it happens, when it does I correct them, they end up embarrassed.
You have to be comfortable in who you are.
FWIW, I'm seriously considering FFS 'cause I'm nearing 60 and 30 something years of outdoor activities are wearing on my face.
Quote from: Cindy on May 03, 2015, 05:51:52 AM
This may sound silly.
Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).
I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 03, 2015, 12:59:56 AM
Last june. I only did partial ffs tho.... but I passed bfor ffs about 50 percnt of the time. Ive always had androgynous face.. but I am to gt more ffs... so maybe thats why... I just felt to past right now since everyone keeps telling me I dont need anything
This^^^ it says you passed about 50% of the time. Before FFS. It makes me wonder, how long have you been on HRT, and how long full time?
FFS and a good voice aren't All that's needed to pass. I'm sure you are passing much more then 50% of the time now tho, so instead of focusing on the times that it's happened. Why not focus on how much better than before it is you're passing? i would automatically think of mannerisms, behaviour, stuff like that.
Another thing I have noticed is many tgirls decide they are more comfortable with no make up on, hoodies and jeans and wouldn't touch a flowery dress cause they think it's overkill. I say wear whatever is your personality without overthinking things. Height won't have much, if at all to do with it. But I am still wondering about time on HRT and full time... If you simply posted a pic on your profile it would be easy to tell you. Obviously you're the kind that isn't comfortable sharing anything on here. Which I think it's a little paranoid but we do what we can to help from whatever info you provide. Living in complete stealth from new dates and relationships isn't a very healthy thing to do either. There was a story I read of a couple in Belgium and she didn't tell her husband, many years later like 30, he found out, left her not just because she was trans but because he felt lied to and like she didn't care for him enough to tell him the truth early on or at all!! It was a very sad story. I am stealth to a degree. Only my BF and my birth family know. Expecting more than that is asking for trouble!
Anyhow many hugs your way. If you haven't at least been on HRT and full time for at least 2 years then I would argue that there's where the issue lies. :)
Xo
Well if you don't like makeup you might think about some nourishing products for your face and hands...
maybe plant based and organic...
for example jojoba or coconut oil products (unless allergic)...
this could give you a fresh and well tended look, something people notice...
well concerning makeup some lipstick could also make a difference... you might simply give it a try...
you could look up a vid called "Plastic Surgery With MakeUp Fuller, Bigger Lips", its possible to do this with two lipsticks in unobtrusive colours.
A few minutes and its done... I'd also recommend organic, two lipstick and a pencil. I'd rather have a few items of good quality.
And imo part of it all is simply a natural aura... not too stiff, a bit relaxed, nice and easy gait... I'd say try to relax...
and if people misgender, which seems to be rare enough, you might think about taking it with humour...
hugs
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 03, 2015, 12:59:56 AM
Last june. I only did partial ffs tho.... but I passed bfor ffs about 50 percnt of the time. Ive always had androgynous face.. but I am to gt more ffs... so maybe thats why... I just felt to past right now since everyone keeps telling me I dont need anything
I don't believe in 50 percent passing, I believe someone is either passable or not. Passing takes a long time. For me it took a few years. It wasn't because of surgery but more hormones and softening everything, then combined with practice and living in the role. Surgery only does so much, and I find with surgery less is more. Too much surgery looks odd and often times brings attention and people start looking crazy.
In my early years I thought I was the BOMB, and I thought no one knew. I find a lot of trans go through this stage of denial. For me, it took actually becoming passable to see the difference in experience than my younger years. Is it possibly that you are just more aware?
5'8" is not that tall, unless you're in an area where women tend to be very short... a little taller than average, but not strikingly so. (I started at 5'8" myself. I was paranoid about it for years until various cis women friends laughed at me, and more than one pointed out that she was taller than I was and I didn't notice - one of my closest friends is 5'9" and still wears 4" heels.) I'm with others in wondering if it's partly that you're second-guessing yourself over questioning looks etc., because in my experience a perfect voice coupled with a reasonably feminine appearance adds up to blending in 99% of the time.
I am 5'10 and a half, and I have no problem wearing a pair of Christian Louboutains with a 4 inch heel. Height has no different if you are in female height range, meaning 6'5 isn't female range. Although the taller someone is the more real the rest of the package should be just because you will stand out more and get noticed so more eyes will be on you.
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 02, 2015, 10:57:25 PM
For some reason I just feel completely un fixable.
your not the only one, I have the same problem
I had full FfS in Peru then revisionnal FFs and still being called sir
I think I need DD breast maybe it will take the attention off of my face
Quote from: Cindy on May 03, 2015, 05:51:52 AM
This may sound silly.
Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).
I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.
Works for me, Cindy..
Quote from: Danielle11746 on May 03, 2015, 10:12:06 AM
I don't believe in 50 percent passing, I believe someone is either passable or not. Passing takes a long time. For me it took a few years. It wasn't because of surgery but more hormones and softening everything, then combined with practice and living in the role. Surgery only does so much, and I find with surgery less is more. Too much surgery looks odd and often times brings attention and people start looking crazy.
In my early years I thought I was the BOMB, and I thought no one knew. I find a lot of trans go through this stage of denial. For me, it took actually becoming passable to see the difference in experience than my younger years. Is it possibly that you are just more aware?
Agree with the intention of you post 100%. But really it depends, some people tend to overestimate their ability to pass, and others tend to be hypercritical and severely underestimate their passability.
Let me tell you one thing
People are just evil. And that is the way they are. You look like a model and that grabs a lot of attention. Maybe you have some masculine shades but every woman does. They ask you if you were a man to put you down. That happens to many good looking cis women. I don't think you should worry about it. Confidence is what makes the trick. Keep confident ;)
Quote from: possessed on May 04, 2015, 02:42:04 AM
Let me tell you one thing
People are just evil. And that is the way they are. You look like a model and that grabs a lot of attention. Maybe you have some masculine shades but every woman does. They ask you if you were a man to put you down. That happens to many good looking cis women. I don't think you should worry about it. Confidence is what makes the trick. Keep confident ;)
I agree. Confidence and voice is the key. Confidence to look em in the eye and voice to remove any doubts.
Maybe you need some more curves? If you really want to spend money maybe get body contouring like Jenny did in Fat transfer to hips 'n' bum thread ;)
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180220.0.html
Or at least have BA, but it could be a bit top heavy without the hips.
It's the flip side of more awareness in the media, people really know what to look for these days. It was a lot easier to pass in the 90s, but if you didn't pass the reactions were worse.
It would really help if you posted a photo and/or a voice recording. Otherwise we're just guessing what it might be. :~)
Quote from: Charlotte2 on May 04, 2015, 06:45:00 AM
Maybe you need some more curves? If you really want to spend money maybe get body contouring like Jenny did in Fat transfer to hips 'n' bum thread ;)
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180220.0.html
Or at least have BA, but it could be a bit top heavy without the hips.
It's the flip side of more awareness in the media, people really know what to look for these days. It was a lot easier to pass in the 90s, but if you didn't pass the reactions were worse.
It would really help if you posted a photo and/or a voice recording. Otherwise we're just guessing what it might be. :~)
It was easier to pass in the 90s, or even before then, people like Alesha Brevard who is like 6'1 today wouldn't pass. Yet like you said the reaction was worse if someone did find out. Like the book "In Search of Eve", the group of trans women stayed anonymous so they didn't educate society on who they were and then able to be picked out. What way is better?
In my mind if you pass 100% of the time with makeup then the issue isn't your features, mannerisms, or voice rather it may be your skin. As guys and former guys we tend not to take care of ourselves (or at least we didn't) and our skin shows it... from scars to blotchy dry skin the neglect is oblivious and when we transition most of us will correct these issues with makeup but with out makeup we still have guy skin. I recommend at least taking a good look at your skin and if you have spots, blotches, dry skin, or big pores look in to ways to correct its issues (creams, chemical peals, laser treatment, etc...)
Quote from: Danielle11746 on May 04, 2015, 10:41:55 AM
It was easier to pass in the 90s, or even before then, people like Alesha Brevard who is like 6'1 today wouldn't pass. Yet like you said the reaction was worse if someone did find out. Like the book "In Search of Eve", the group of trans women stayed anonymous so they didn't educate society on who they were and then able to be picked out. What way is better?
@Danielle, absolutely. I have noticed on Susans that there's been lots of women who transitioned long ago coming back for FFS, VFS, etc. I had voice surgery in Korea last year and I'm having hair transplants to correct my widows-peak later this year. I thought I was done 15 years ago. I used to think I could tell if someone had clocked me and then I found out that some people who I thought didn't know had known for years. That really unnerved me.
Also living for so long as a woman does make you more self-critical and you become aware of all the subtleties there are.
Quote from: Emily E on May 04, 2015, 12:59:32 PMIn my mind if you pass 100% of the time with makeup then the issue isn't your features, mannerisms, or voice rather it may be your skin. As guys and former guys we tend not to take care of ourselves (or at least we didn't) and our skin shows it... from scars to blotchy dry skin the neglect is oblivious and when we transition most of us will correct these issues with makeup but with out makeup we still have guy skin. I recommend at least taking a good look at your skin and if you have spots, blotches, dry skin, or big pores look in to ways to correct its issues (creams, chemical peals, laser treatment, etc...)
^This^
Your skin has a LOT to do with passing. Even just learning how to do a few quick things with makeup well goes a LONG way in passability. FFS, for the most part, doesn't do anything to your skin. 20 years of acne, no facial care, and even just bad genetics means that even after FFS, rolling out of bed on a Saturday morning and looking in the mirror, I look BAD. Will I still get ma'am'ed if I answer the door? Yes, but I wonder why sometimes, and I hate how I look when I look like that - it does nothing good for my self-esteem and dysphoria if I just stare in the mirror. But two minutes of quick makeup and a hair tie later, it's so totally a different story that it's almost spooky. Even skin tone (or just more-even-than-usual) does MIRACLES!
And who is saying that 5'8" is tall?? I'm in my mid-20s and 5'8", and compared to cis women my age, I'm just slightly taller that average but still definitely middle-of-the-pack.
About the skin, I'm thinking about a peel (laser or chemical).
I've read it's bad after you've had all your facial hair removed, but I still have some vellus.
What's the best peel to do? I have big pores, and uneven tone, even if I religiously applied sunscreen everyday. for the last few years, the damage had already been done.
Quote from: calicarly on May 03, 2015, 08:46:00 AM
This^^^ it says you passed about 50% of the time. Before FFS. It makes me wonder, how long have you been on HRT, and how long full time?
FFS and a good voice aren't All that's needed to pass. I'm sure you are passing much more then 50% of the time now tho, so instead of focusing on the times that it's happened. Why not focus on how much better than before it is you're passing? i would automatically think of mannerisms, behaviour, stuff like that.
Another thing I have noticed is many tgirls decide they are more comfortable with no make up on, hoodies and jeans and wouldn't touch a flowery dress cause they think it's overkill. I say wear whatever is your personality without overthinking things. Height won't have much, if at all to do with it. But I am still wondering about time on HRT and full time... If you simply posted a pic on your profile it would be easy to tell you. Obviously you're the kind that isn't comfortable sharing anything on here. Which I think it's a little paranoid but we do what we can to help from whatever info you provide. Living in complete stealth from new dates and relationships isn't a very healthy thing to do either. There was a story I read of a couple in Belgium and she didn't tell her husband, many years later like 30, he found out, left her not just because she was trans but because he felt lied to and like she didn't care for him enough to tell him the truth early on or at all!! It was a very sad story. I am stealth to a degree. Only my BF and my birth family know. Expecting more than that is asking for trouble!
Anyhow many hugs your way. If you haven't at least been on HRT and full time for at least 2 years then I would argue that there's where the issue lies. :)
Xo
Hi, to be honest... I think im overly beautiful.. seriously. I use to get complimenta about how beautiful I was before hrt... which was 5 yeara. Ago that ivw started at age 18. My body is curvy... I am stealth. Not saying I wouldnt disclose.. im not in a relationship . No need. Its my business, no one elses. Ita my atory against theres. People hold in embarassing things that they feel about themselves as well. Im not the kind to flatter it in someones face. Unless I wanna. .
I think me not.passing is all in my head.
I was off hrt for about 9 months last year, due to being out of work. Not by choice. So maybe during that time frame... because this is when it all happened... took place... no peole just stare and me... then when I ask people why they are staring they just say because im beautiful.. idk
Needless to say
My skin is pretty flawless. Im always glowing. I think im overly paranoid... not of someone finding out... but only because I just want to smooth through life.. idc what people think.. its just the fact that u want to be able to have a normal day sometimes lol.
Quote from: JJohnson on May 04, 2015, 06:08:44 PM
^This^
Your skin has a LOT to do with passing. Even just learning how to do a few quick things with makeup well goes a LONG way in passability. FFS, for the most part, doesn't do anything to your skin. 20 years of acne, no facial care, and even just bad genetics means that even after FFS, rolling out of bed on a Saturday morning and looking in the mirror, I look BAD. Will I still get ma'am'ed if I answer the door? Yes, but I wonder why sometimes, and I hate how I look when I look like that - it does nothing good for my self-esteem and dysphoria if I just stare in the mirror. But two minutes of quick makeup and a hair tie later, it's so totally a different story that it's almost spooky. Even skin tone (or just more-even-than-usual) does MIRACLES!
And who is saying that 5'8" is tall?? I'm in my mid-20s and 5'8", and compared to cis women my age, I'm just slightly taller that average but still definitely middle-of-the-pack.
One thing I can say is I have a bangin body loll. Ive started hrt when I was 18 . Hips were a given
Quote from: Charlotte2 on May 04, 2015, 06:45:00 AM
Maybe you need some more curves? If you really want to spend money maybe get body contouring like Jenny did in Fat transfer to hips 'n' bum thread ;)
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,180220.0.html
Or at least have BA, but it could be a bit top heavy without the hips.
It's the flip side of more awareness in the media, people really know what to look for these days. It was a lot easier to pass in the 90s, but if you didn't pass the reactions were worse.
It would really help if you posted a photo and/or a voice recording. Otherwise we're just guessing what it might be. :~)
Quote from: possessed on May 04, 2015, 02:42:04 AM
Let me tell you one thing
People are just evil. And that is the way they are. You look like a model and that grabs a lot of attention. Maybe you have some masculine shades but every woman does. They ask you if you were a man to put you down. That happens to many good looking cis women. I don't think you should worry about it. Confidence is what makes the trick. Keep confident ;)
Awww thank you!!
Xoxo
Iiii really think I do this. This guy that has a desk across from me at work... kept staring at me constantly... until he finally came over and told me Im mesmerizing... I get asked/ hit on all the time... idk maybe its the things I see
Quote from: AmySun4400 on May 03, 2015, 10:04:36 PM
Agree with the intention of you post 100%. But really it depends, some people tend to overestimate their ability to pass, and others tend to be hypercritical and severely underestimate their passability.
When I went full time I got read all the time where I lived simply because they knew me from before, Even though I looked so much different I was well known because of my old job and my ex wife spread the rumour in the village before I returned there full time. I spent 2 years without any facial surgery trying to improve and the more I tried the worse it got. I got to the point where I decided the best way was not to care even though of course we do. I had a female Birth Certificate and Passport and I decided no matter what people thought I am a woman. It is all about confidence and experience as others have said. Now people say I pass and mostly I probably do but no matter who you are or how good you look someone somewhere will read you one day. I only wear make up when I'm going to be out all day or it's somewhere I want to look good as obviously I look better with it than without. I have days where I am not so confident going out and I feel I'm being read by everyone and them days I am more likely to be read because I give myself away.
I hope you can find a way to not be bothered by this and then I'm sure it will stop happening
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
Quote from: SorchaC on May 05, 2015, 09:02:26 PM
When I went full time I got read all the time where I lived simply because they knew me from before, Even though I looked so much different I was well known because of my old job and my ex wife spread the rumour in the village before I returned there full time. I spent 2 years without any facial surgery trying to improve and the more I tried the worse it got. I got to the point where I decided the best way was not to care even though of course we do. I had a female Birth Certificate and Passport and I decided no matter what people thought I am a woman. It is all about confidence and experience as others have said. Now people say I pass and mostly I probably do but no matter who you are or how good you look someone somewhere will read you one day. I only wear make up when I'm going to be out all day or it's somewhere I want to look good as obviously I look better with it than without. I have days where I am not so confident going out and I feel I'm being read by everyone and them days I am more likely to be read because I give myself away.
I hope you can find a way to not be bothered by this and then I'm sure it will stop happening
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
So is this to say... no matter how passable I am... someone would clock me? Are we talking about random people here? Is this to say cis gets clock at some point in their life to? I never understood this. Please elaborate.
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 06:29:14 AM
So is this to say... no matter how passable I am... someone would clock me? Are we talking about random people here? Is this to say cis gets clock at some point in their life to? I never understood this. Please elaborate.
Damn, I hate the phrase "clock". People are stupid, face it. They base their observations on stereotypes. Many cis women get taken for men, not because they are shaved head butches, but because they don't meet societal norms. I've played a lot of team sports over the years, with a lot of cis women. They are muscled, athletic women, who don't wear makeup all the time, they don't wear girly clothes. Also, they present an air of confidence that a lot of women who've been brought up in a male dominated culture don't have.
This perception that you need to wear makeup all the time to "present" female is ridiculous. I'm an engineer, and work at a facility with a lot of female engineers. Do you think they all layer up with makeup everyday? No, they are no nonsense women who know who they are and they have a job to do. I'm also part time farmer/rancher and interact with a lot of "salt of the earth folks". These women don't layer up with makeup, nor wear sun dresses all day. They get up in the morning, drive tractor, births calves, work in the field, etc. You doubt they are female and you'll get wacked up the side of your head.
I should go back to the shadows.
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 06:29:14 AM
So is this to say... no matter how passable I am... someone would clock me? Are we talking about random people here? Is this to say cis gets clock at some point in their life to? I never understood this. Please elaborate.
Sadly yes no matter how good you are someone somewhere will work it out one day but that doesn't mean they'll say anything nor should they. If someone was presenting as female most decent folks would address them as such unless they were making the point they'd worked it out or thought they had.
When I went full time I had a cis friend who would hang out with me and she got read as trans often even though she wasn't because she worked as a lighting coordinator in a theatre and was always in her scruff without make up because she had to climb rigging or go under stages so was hardly going to go out all dolled up. People are just cruel or their own lives are such a mess that they feel better about themselves by making someone feel worse than they do. I've no idea what you look like but I'm sure you're a lovely woman so try not to let what people think of your appearance spoil your happiness :)
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
Quote from: deeiche on May 06, 2015, 07:46:53 AM
Damn, I hate the phrase "clock". People are stupid, face it. They base their observations on stereotypes. Many cis women get taken for men, not because they are shaved head butches, but because they don't meet societal norms. I've played a lot of team sports over the years, with a lot of cis women. They are muscled, athletic women, who don't wear makeup all the time, they don't wear girly clothes. Also, they present an air of confidence that a lot of women who've been brought up in a male dominated culture don't have.
This perception that you need to wear makeup all the time to "present" female is ridiculous. I'm an engineer, and work at a facility with a lot of female engineers. Do you think they all layer up with makeup everyday? No, they are no nonsense women who know who they are and they have a job to do. I'm also part time farmer/rancher and interact with a lot of "salt of the earth folks". These women don't layer up with makeup, nor wear sun dresses all day. They get up in the morning, drive tractor, births calves, work in the field, etc. You doubt they are female and you'll get wacked up the side of your head.
I should go back to the shadows.
Exactly. I love dressing up, dont get me wrong... but I dont want to have to cake my face on with makeup just to pass. You have a point. One friend of mine, at work was sird... and is gg. But I gueas at the end of the day... people get clocked... rathere they are born in their gender or not.
So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.
Quote from: SorchaC on May 06, 2015, 03:18:25 PM
Sadly yes no matter how good you are someone somewhere will work it out one day but that doesn't mean they'll say anything nor should they. If someone was presenting as female most decent folks would address them as such unless they were making the point they'd worked it out or thought they had.
When I went full time I had a cis friend who would hang out with me and she got read as trans often even though she wasn't because she worked as a lighting coordinator in a theatre and was always in her scruff without make up because she had to climb rigging or go under stages so was hardly going to go out all dolled up. People are just cruel or their own lives are such a mess that they feel better about themselves by making someone feel worse than they do. I've no idea what you look like but I'm sure you're a lovely woman so try not to let what people think of your appearance spoil your happiness :)
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.
I'd say you've got the idea :)
Just be you and don't worry what others think or say unless they are close to you like family friends or a partner.
Hugs
Sorcha ;D
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.
Spot on.
FWIW, I transitioned on the job in 1984. It was not easy to transition then, I doubt it is any easier to transition now.
may you have a good life
Quote from: Danielle11746 on May 03, 2015, 12:16:35 AM
Give you face time to heal. You might look like you have had work done and that could be bringing the attention and people questioning your gender. It take a long time for the face to settle, then once it settles it needs to mold and age along with you, kinda get broken in. How long ago did you have surgery?
This is very true!!!!
I had a lot of help from my ex wife.. she is my BFF and has given me so much advise.. and is 100% honest with me.
I pass 100% but did have FFS and my body has changed a lot in 16 months of FFS.. Been full time 5 months..
Here are some of her tips.
Shoulders back head upright.. posture is important.
Confidence.. look straight ahead and do your thing like its no ones business..
Wear appropriate clothing.. I have a thick upper body and am 18 inches wide and 5-6 so I am thick.. so I wear loose fitting clothes to enhance my hips and butt. to make up for my thick upper body.
Women come in all sizes and shapes..
Look people straight in the eye when you talk and smile...
It takes time.. I have about another year I would say before I can wear a tight t shirt and no makeup..
I am sure I have had people wonder.. but no way would they think for sure I am a guy.. might think I am a bodybuilder chick.. but that is in public not on a date ...
Dodie
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 06, 2015, 09:46:44 PM
So I guess its safe to say... bbeing clocked isnt just for trans. Its for people period. People get race, ethnicity, gender and people confused all the time.
That is so right. You know, in some places, people who are not ethnically white do also try to pass as white and have the same fear of being read. I guess everybody wants the advantages of the "normal" group.
Even after FFS I think I occasionally get read but I've never had someone misgender me.I tend to think they are just nice and polite.My partner thinks it's all in my head.All she sees is a woman and she's not the sort to be dishonest in her assessment.Yet I still have my insecurities but honestly they actually are really small compared with with the dysphoria and unhappiness I felt prior to transitioning.The fact that I feel things more,am more open and sensitive does mean that these insecurities can play on me.
Dodie, this is the best tip ever. I have never been clocked in the last little while and I agree - straight posture with shoulders back, confidence, knowing what to wear for your body type, subtle and glowing makeup and of course smiling a lot - BAM - That's a woman!
Quote from: Dodie on May 11, 2015, 03:57:06 PM
I had a lot of help from my ex wife.. she is my BFF and has given me so much advise.. and is 100% honest with me.
I pass 100% but did have FFS and my body has changed a lot in 16 months of FFS.. Been full time 5 months..
Here are some of her tips.
Shoulders back head upright.. posture is important.
Confidence.. look straight ahead and do your thing like its no ones business..
Wear appropriate clothing.. I have a thick upper body and am 18 inches wide and 5-6 so I am thick.. so I wear loose fitting clothes to enhance my hips and butt. to make up for my thick upper body.
Women come in all sizes and shapes..
Look people straight in the eye when you talk and smile...
It takes time.. I have about another year I would say before I can wear a tight t shirt and no makeup..
I am sure I have had people wonder.. but no way would they think for sure I am a guy.. might think I am a bodybuilder chick.. but that is in public not on a date ...
Dodie
You will be a better judge of this than me but if you are extremely attractive you are going to get a look from women you come in contact with. Women are always checking out other women for tips that they can incorporate into their own look and they aren't very subtle about it. I am not around strange women that much and when I am, I am in a store where I am dressed down so I tend to be just one of the crowd. The reason why women have to have that perfect look when the go to a formal party is because they know they will be undressed by every woman there. It could be a sign of acceptance that they are trying to steal your beauty secrets.
Quote from: Cindy on May 03, 2015, 05:51:52 AM
This may sound silly.
Cis women don't worry that they are seen as trans*. So no one cares. Trans* women do. They get 'clocked' (horrible term).
I don't care. No one clocks me. If they do I don't care.
I agree, just be a woman, dress nice, nice makeup, speak nice, be proud of yourself.....If anyone calls you sir just say I beg your pardon! Just enjoy being a woman more maybe, smile, be happy........
Maybe it's just your imagination. My test is to go to the mall and walk through a group of teenage girls. The theory is that teen girls are superficial by nature and tend to scrutinize other females with a vengeance. If something is off they will most likely let you know it. I've done this several times and so far I guess I pass the test. They barely even notice me at all other than a quick glance but that's about it. Kids are another excellent test because they don't know yet know better. If somthing isn't quite right they will stare a hole in you. Fortunately I have managed to pass the kid test too.
Quote from: Amy1988 on July 07, 2015, 02:51:02 PM
Maybe it's just your imagination. My test is to go to the mall and walk through a group of teenage girls. The theory is that teen girls are superficial by nature and tend to scrutinize other females with a vengeance. If something is off they will most likely let you know it. I've done this several times and so far I guess I pass the test. They barely even notice me at all other than a quick glance but that's about it. Kids are another excellent test because they don't know yet know better. If somthing isn't quite right they will stare a hole in you. Fortunately I have managed to pass the kid test too.
I disagree with this. Kids are dumber than you think. All it takes is long hair for them to get confused about whether someone is male or female especially because they get gender roles drilled into their heads by todays society, girls have long hair boys have short, girls wear pink, boys wear blue ect.
As for teenage girls... yes they look at girls, but they don't notice older women they are too busy focusing on other teens or younger girls, those are the people they really drill into.
I think the best tests are just interacting with people normally in day to day life and pay attention to how they react to you. If you don't pass, honestly most people will react kind of strangely even if they don't say anything outright.
Quote from: lovelessheart on May 02, 2015, 09:10:49 PM
So as the title says. :(. In the past few months ive been clocked more than need be. Its strange because im not quite sure why. My surgeon was dr cardenas, but I have gotton regular recomendations from other doctors and they tell me I dont need anything else! And that anything else would to subtle changea. This is frustrating because I dont want to be clocked unintentionally. Im supposedly stelth at work, howver ive been clocked there a few times. Does any have a third party app such as kik? Or email I can send picw to for recommendations? And advice... im literally mind boggled... right now I just want a whole new face. I have no idea what it could be. My voice is suuperb. Never got the chance to get deep... as well as no adams apple. Im confused.. maybe its my 5"8 height?? Stressed...
Well, I'm trying to think about my own situation... I find myself at this juncture at which I'm considered to be super-attractive as a female, yet a handful of people have asked if I'm "secretly a boy". Two of the instances, I know were because of my voice (I'd say it's androgynous, but still has resonance to it, as I don't have space to train it), while one of them was brought on due to me being so "fit". This person stated that women are never as "fit" as I am, and that that makes them suspicious that I am a man. People just say ->-bleeped-<- like that, I think, because they know that trans women are in existence perhaps.
So, the thing is -- I'm 5 ft. 10 with my shoes on, and I probably have classic "transsexual voice", and I'm really toned from having low body fat, but these traits are traits I'm complimented on most frequently I have friends who are uber-gorgeous trans women, and who
also occasionally get clocked for reasons that make no sense, and I think it just comes down to certain members of society fearing with all they have that they've encountered a "man dressed as a woman" and accidentally treated them as female.
In order to reconcile with my own instances of being clocked, I've tried to consider all of the super-gorgeous female celebrities that people have decided are "secretly a man", with no rationale whatsoever. I mean, even a diva like Ciara doesn't meet society's expectations and
must be a "man"???? Really???
It seems that many women occasionally get this -- especially if they're beautiful -- but if it's someone thinking you're male at first glance, I'd examine your musculature. I don't think that people realize how much more muscular guys are then women, and I think it plays a huge role in people's perceptions at first glance.
Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive.
Ally
Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
SNIP
Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive.
Ally
just my US$.02 worth
Do you know how condescending and misogynistic that sounds?
Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
Well, I'm trying to think about my own situation... I find myself at this juncture at which I'm considered to be super-attractive as a female, yet a handful of people have asked if I'm "secretly a boy". Two of the instances, I know were because of my voice (I'd say it's androgynous, but still has resonance to it, as I don't have space to train it), while one of them was brought on due to me being so "fit". This person stated that women are never as "fit" as I am, and that that makes them suspicious that I am a man. People just say ->-bleeped-<- like that, I think, because they know that trans women are in existence perhaps.
So, the thing is -- I'm 5 ft. 10 with my shoes on, and I probably have classic "transsexual voice", and I'm really toned from having low body fat, but these traits are traits I'm complimented on most frequently I have friends who are uber-gorgeous trans women, and who also occasionally get clocked for reasons that make no sense, and I think it just comes down to certain members of society fearing with all they have that they've encountered a "man dressed as a woman" and accidentally treated them as female.
In order to reconcile with my own instances of being clocked, I've tried to consider all of the super-gorgeous female celebrities that people have decided are "secretly a man", with no rationale whatsoever. I mean, even a diva like Ciara doesn't meet society's expectations and must be a "man"???? Really???
It seems that many women occasionally get this -- especially if they're beautiful -- but if it's someone thinking you're male at first glance, I'd examine your musculature. I don't think that people realize how much more muscular guys are then women, and I think it plays a huge role in people's perceptions at first glance.
Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive.
Ally
Your description of the average cis women gave me a laugh. Also I agree. I know in Asia you have modeltier looks people always joke that you must actually be gay (be trans) because I don't even know its just like a thing where if you are "too perfect" they say that. Part of it I guess is that some of the best feminine looks need some masculinity to really get into beautiful territory, like some strong bone structure here or there. And yea body types are important. I know whenever I see a cis women who is very fit with some muscle I stare for a bit and its kind of fascinating almost. LUCKILY FOR YOU crossfit and female body building is catching on and I've seen like cuties sporting abs and some nice guns and very muscled toned bodies. Hopefully this dilutes the waters. Of course most mtfs have larger bone structure so any muscle they put on will look more masculine than the muscle a cis women puts on, oh well.
Quote from: deeiche on July 09, 2015, 07:42:08 AM
just my US$.02 worth
Do you know how condescending and misogynistic that sounds?
How is it misogynistic? Our society is so silly, like you can't criticize women at all or you are some horrible women hater now. I wonder if she was talking about men and their beer guts if she would be called "misandristic". Its not like shes talking about anyone in particular.
Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AMI'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive.
I'm literally LoL after reading this... that's awesome on multiple levels.
Sorry, I deserve a down-vote as I have nothing to add to this thread :icon_ashamed:
Quote from: Jasper93 on July 08, 2015, 11:44:07 PM
Well, I'm trying to think a
Kids may not be that smart but they sure as hell notice when somthing is strange about another person. Especially the face. As for teen girls I maintain my original assertion.
Quote from: Jasper93 on July 09, 2015, 12:04:51 AM
Well, I'm trying to think about my own situation... I find myself at this juncture at which I'm considered to be super-attractive as a female, yet a handful of people have asked if I'm "secretly a boy". Two of the instances, I know were because of my voice (I'd say it's androgynous, but still has resonance to it, as I don't have space to train it), while one of them was brought on due to me being so "fit". This person stated that women are never as "fit" as I am, and that that makes them suspicious that I am a man. People just say ->-bleeped-<- like that, I think, because they know that trans women are in existence perhaps.
So, the thing is -- I'm 5 ft. 10 with my shoes on, and I probably have classic "transsexual voice", and I'm really toned from having low body fat, but these traits are traits I'm complimented on most frequently I have friends who are uber-gorgeous trans women, and who also occasionally get clocked for reasons that make no sense, and I think it just comes down to certain members of society fearing with all they have that they've encountered a "man dressed as a woman" and accidentally treated them as female.
In order to reconcile with my own instances of being clocked, I've tried to consider all of the super-gorgeous female celebrities that people have decided are "secretly a man", with no rationale whatsoever. I mean, even a diva like Ciara doesn't meet society's expectations and must be a "man"???? Really???
It seems that many women occasionally get this -- especially if they're beautiful -- but if it's someone thinking you're male at first glance, I'd examine your musculature. I don't think that people realize how much more muscular guys are then women, and I think it plays a huge role in people's perceptions at first glance.
Other than that, I'm not entirely sure, but I'd rather be a gorgeous-ass vixen of a trans woman, as I am, than one of society's everyday rotund, corn-fed little cis woman who passes with ease but is considered unattractive.
Ally
Sorry, but Ciara does have masculine features, strong jaw, robust nose, large chin