okay, so i'm so proud of caitlyn jenner. i seriously love her to bits and i think she's so brave, strong, and lovely.
but i decided to torture myself by reading some transphobic comments (i know, i should never do that) and now i feel like my chest is caving in.
even with people like her being so inspiring and promoting equality/acceptance of trans people, there's still so much ignorance in the world. and it hurts. seeing some of these comments makes me wish i'd never realized i was trans, and i don't want to make this about myself but it just feels so hard exist as a transgender person sometimes. i wish i had half her strength, but i just don't.
the world is still so far behind and it physically hurts. i see people dropping the t-slur and i see intentional misgendering, i hear laughter and hatred and it makes me realize how broken and twisted society is.
i'm so proud of caitlyn, and i love how much support she's been getting, but the negative comments (even though they're not aimed at me!) just hurt so badly.
i wish that we could just exist without judgment and transphobia. (and, i wish i was half as fabulous as caitlyn)
The peanut gallery will always exist, some people are raised in a hateful environment, and it's going to take a lot of time and education to end the cycle.
there are people that use any excuse no matter how trivial to make fun of people. When I was a kid they made fun of me for crying all the time , as a teenager I had severe acne , made fun of for that. A person I knew and never said a mean thing to or about one day came up to me and made fun of my acne. not too long ago at a job I had again been the object of fun of ridiculing someone with acne scars. It's a problem with all cultures. There are those that always make comments about others. You can't let your life be run by what others think.
It may seem like there are a lot of haters, but the reality is, they are a small but very vocal minority. Sixteen years ago when I thought I was a cis guy, I fell in love with a beautiful girl from the Philippines. When I arrived there to see her, the first person I met from her family was her cousin -- who happened to be a beautiful, five foot ten inch tall, MTF transgender. By circumstance, I spent the better part of a day running around the city of Manila in her company, trying to track down the girl I was going to marry. (We missed her at the ferry landing). Yes, there were catcalls and some teasing, directed at me as well as her.
I had been bullied all my life for being a small and effeminate guy, so i just didn't let it get to me. So what if those guys thought the crazy American had a transgender girlfriend. It was none of their business anyway.
Long story short, I met my beautiful girl, later married her, and also found out that her youngest brother is gay. And one of her best friends is, and he comes to our parties all the time.
And last year I had to finally admit to myself that I am not as cisgender as I once thought I was.
But because I am 52, and lived most of my life as a cisgender male, I can tell you that I have seen sweeping changes in society. Huge progress has been made.
This is easily as big as MLK's "I have a dream" speech.
Don't let the haters get to you. They are irrelevant. This is our moment.
thank you all.
sorry for being a bit of a downer, just hard to keep my focus off of the haters sometimes.
<3
The majority of these comments are made by the dregs of society that have nothing better to do than troll the internet all day long. I'm thinking unemployable losers that live in their parents' basements amongst bongwater stained rugs, stacks of questionable pornography and unlaundered spank socks.
In other words, not a representative sample of society.
Rule #1: Don't read the comments.
Rule #2: DON'T READ THE COMMENTS!
Meh. The hell with the wankers that make those types of comments. I just hope that the karmic wheel rolls over them and crushes them to dust.
synesthetic, look at it this way: There are so few such nuts in the world that the only way they can find validation is by trolling Internet comments.
I don't read them often, but when I do I focus on the more enlightened, supportive comment and they give me hope.
I never really even knew who Bruce Jenner was, until he came out as trans. Now, as Caitlyn, she is becoming a huge inspiration to me. True, tons of people are still twisted on the topic of being trans. There are still tons of misconceptions, but there are also tons of people who accept trans people, and understand that it's a struggle for us. I gained some mad respect for Vanity Fair today, they are on the side that inevitably will win. We just have to stay strong, and true to ourselves. Caitlyn is in the public eye, and is helping us all win our own personal battles. Haters gonna hate, it's what they do. Personally, I think it comes from them having their own issues that they are afraid to face. Whatever they may be, these people are just jealous. At least that's what I think.
~Maddy
I hope Kaitlyn Jenner does right by the community and is received well by the press.
Open minded independent people will make up their own minds when presented with the facts. Sheep will follow the crowd.
I'm not so sure it's the fringes of society that are nasty and transphobic to be honest. I know it's nice to think people are accepting us but today I got a huge reality check.
Today I was walking down the street in midtown and I spotted two guys holding hands in an obviously affectionate manner. They passed by a school and the kids outside started pointing and laughing loudly and commented about "why the f*gs gotta be holding hands." This wasn't "the ghetto" part of town. This was midtown and the school was a specialized school with competitive admissions. This means that the kids attending are above average.
So I'm cautiously optimistic. To be honest I really don't like the idea of making a big splash, especially associated with the kardashian clan. I like stories like Lynn Conway who are ordinary people who made significant contributions to the well being of society. Sure, Jenner was an athlete who achieved greatness but lately she's known more for gossip than anything else.
She's just some D-list celebrity ::) I would rather see acceptance and understanding from everyday people who aren't in the spotlight.
Being that she's in the spotlight, controversy is always going to surround her no matter the subject. It's no surprise that transphobes are gravitating towards her and using the comment sections of stories about her to post their transphobic ramblings. They just crawl out of the woodwork when they want to make themselves heard, they hardly represent the majority.
Quote from: Jill F on June 01, 2015, 02:19:43 PM
The majority of these comments are made by the dregs of society that have nothing better to do than troll the internet all day long. I'm thinking unemployable losers that live in their parents' basements amongst bongwater stained rugs, stacks of questionable pornography and unlaundered spank socks.
This. Their lives must be very sad if all they have to do is comment on things they have no clue about for the sole purpose of bigotry. Kinda like bullies and them having problems with themselves, I think its the same thing here. They must have problems with themselves so they take it out on others. Especially when they can do it hiding behind a computer screen under a fake persona. If they were face to face with a trans person I highly doubt they would have the guts to say a word of what they spew online. They are disgusting trolls plain and simple
I have seen a vast majority of positive comments though regarding Caitlyn. The only bad I've seen are on yahoo. That place is infested with trolls, bigots and the lowest form of life in society with nothing better to do with their life. If there is ever comments not to read, its yahoo's. Its the breeding ground of the bigot
I think she has been very well received though. We are making progress its just very slow and comments from bigots pull us down again to feel as if we arent progressing but we are. There are less of those type of comments now than there would have been before. They will always exist however far we go cause there is no getting away from this type of person. Look how far things have come with the gay community, it was illegal to be gay and an abomination. Now its like 'so what'. No one really cares anymore on the whole. Its just the minority who keep making a big deal out of it and spewing hatred. They will always exist, their voices will just become tuned out more as they become extinguished
It is important that things like this happen in the spotlight for more people to understand. If we all just did it in the shadows we would never progress. We need visibility as well and I think Caitlyn is really contributing to that
^ Spot on, Garry. My sentiments exactly.
Any hate comment tells you only one thing: the person who wrote it is MISERABLE, both in their personal life and in how they fit with society at large.
Rather than internalizing their issue, understand that they're no more important that a wind-up toy monkey with cymbals.
*clang* *clang* *clang*
The people in the comments do not represent the rest of society, nor the tenor of it's overall sentiment in any meaningful way. The only thing you learn when you read the comments (which you should not do) is how the dregs of society feel about a thing, which is not a thing anybody needs to be informed of.
Don't read them, and if you do, just realize they represent literally nothing and can be ignored.
Quote from: Contravene on June 01, 2015, 06:50:36 PM
She's just some D-list celebrity ::)
Unless you are over 50 years old. I was 13 when Bruce Jenner won the Olympic Decathlon gold medal in 1976, at the height of the Cold War with the Soviet Russians. It was a big, BIG deal. We had lost the Vietnam War a year earlier to the Communists. America needed a hero, and Bruce delivered, big time.
really interesting reading everyone's input on this! thanks for all the responses
Quote"The majority of these comments are made by the dregs of society that have nothing better to do than troll the internet all day long. I'm thinking unemployable losers that live in their parents' basements amongst bongwater stained rugs, stacks of questionable pornography and unlaundered spank socks.
In other words, not a representative sample of society".
So I am happy for Caitlyn, it looks like her transition is going well. I think this is basically a good thing for the older generation, and help them understand the trans* thing a little better who know her as the Olympic gold medalist. As far as bigots/trolls go, I think Jill F. has it right, except that they seem to makeup a rather sizable segment of society.
In my work I am often in the public's eye, usually standing outside my bus waiting for my passengers...
Fwiw, it felt to me like an abnormally high number of passersby made eye contact with me today, and smiled (with mouth and eyes). I got the impression that the morning's "headline" about Caitlin really made people aware of us, and in a good way.
I didn't get but a handful of angry looks, no more than usual.
Meh. I don't worry about what the public thinks. Sure, if people are cool to me, I will be cool with them. But, I don't worry about that like I did when my transition started. I never was the type to worry about the opinions of other people anyway.
They can step off cuz I'm doing the hump, G!
Quote from: CarlyMcx on June 01, 2015, 08:01:39 PM
Unless you are over 50 years old. I was 13 when Bruce Jenner won the Olympic Decathlon gold medal in 1976, at the height of the Cold War with the Soviet Russians. It was a big, BIG deal. We had lost the Vietnam War a year earlier to the Communists. America needed a hero, and Bruce delivered, big time.
You do have a really good point. It's a shame that my generation and a lot of others never got to see her earlier accomplishments and all she's been know for to us is her involvement with the Kardashians. I think this time the transgender community needed a hero and she's delivered on that which is great, I just still wish the focus wasn't always on celebrities. When there are negative issues in the community they happen to regular people. For once it would be nice if the spotlight was put on an average person who had something good come from them being trans.
Quote from: Contravene on June 01, 2015, 09:41:16 PM
I just still wish the focus wasn't always on celebrities.
To be fair, there have been an explosion in past months of stories about ordinary transgender folk (with an emphasis on children).
Any positively aimed exposure in the press for trans people is still positively aimed exposure for trans people (celebrity or not). To me, that is all that matters.
As long as the exposure remains positive it's going to help. It won't by itself cure the ignorance that many in the public have, but it will help start changing some of those misconceptions. Admire the courage she has to share her journey in such a public way.
Mariah
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 02, 2015, 06:01:36 AM
Any positively aimed exposure in the press for trans people is still positively aimed exposure for trans people (celebrity or not). To me, that is all that matters.
This is right on point.
Quote from: Jill F on June 01, 2015, 02:19:43 PM
The majority of these comments are made by the dregs of society that have nothing better to do than troll the internet all day long. I'm thinking unemployable losers that live in their parents' basements amongst bongwater stained rugs, stacks of questionable pornography and unlaundered spank socks.
Personally, I find it hard to see them as actual people. I can't place exactly why.
Quote from: Jennygirl on June 02, 2015, 06:01:36 AM
Any positively aimed exposure in the press for trans people is still positively aimed exposure for trans people (celebrity or not). To me, that is all that matters.
This is key. The key is POSITIVE exposure. It remains to be seen whether Caitlyn Jenner is going to be give us that but I'm trying to stay positive.
I am already growing exhausted from a few posts I've seen from my more activist friends on fb. They are picking her apart along with the media coverage.
Who are we to judge her or expect things out of her like some kind of chess piece? That is ridiculous if you ask me.
I don't think a community backlash would be well deserved. Sometimes people are way too trans radical for my tastes. Live and let live. The only person we should expect anything from is ourselves, and not try to skitch what we want from life through the life of another. Sorry, just had to vent because it was eating me and this place feels like a safe haven at the moment.
Hi All,
Not really sure what to think on this topic. I noticed one of my daughters talking to her friend about it. It wasn't offensive, they were just talking about how unusual the situation is. She doesn't know I'm transgender.
My wife on the other hand does and she's asked me quite a few pointed questions about my feelings on this. I think this has made her very nervous. I think she believes that I could follow Caitlin's lead. I'm sure many will but I'm not sure if this hasn't made it harder for me with all the world watching us now. It feels even more scary.
Take care,
Paige :)
I am with you Paige. Really this does scare me as I am call it starting to transition and to how far not sure yet truthfully. But due to Jenner its mixed blessing yes jenner has in my opinion promoted our issues well thus far it does get funny in a sense that really some or guessing most want to be left alone to do this. Yet jenner also brings more of an understanding to most pioeple that care at least. As for wishing the average joe/jane would come into the spotlight realistically no it wont happen nor get the attention. Why average person lives their lives either in seclusion or in small community or even bigger community where the famous they live in the world community. Just a thing that is what it is.
As for jenner one thing I hope for her is that she takes this on her own time and not feel pressured that could cause problems and in turn cause problems for the view people have on the issue.
Picking her apart ya I couldn't judge her myself its just not right and ads for her comments she has stated her motives its not about the fame, the money, or attention per say its more like she has to say something but I am doing it for me that simple but yes I forced to say something since famous so she is doing something in the media for it that isn't really her choice.
I saw more negativity yesterday about her than I have in my first year combined. With that said, it was only a tiny fraction of the positive feedback I saw about her. I continue to be surprised by how much positivity shes gotten out of people. I've been putting myself out there on the internet a lot lately and I continue to be impressed by how well I've been treated. I've even had some people comment that they were shocked by the positive support they saw in reaction to my comments.
Yes the negative stuff can hurt, but its been so positive, that it gives me hope for our society.
Just remember that her journey is her own, and whatever she does or how much time it takes is her choice.
And we all get the same right to make our own transition, our own. Everyone's journey is unique, if the public gets the impression that there's "only one way to transition", then its up to us to gently clarify things.
Quote from: Contravene on June 01, 2015, 09:41:16 PM
I just still wish the focus wasn't always on celebrities. When there are negative issues in the community they happen to regular people. For once it would be nice if the spotlight was put on an average person who had something good come from them being trans.
Well, with Jazz getting a TV show, there are also avenues opening up for someone a little more out of the celebrity spotlight and there is great potential for positive representation there.
Quote from: Laura_Squirrel on June 01, 2015, 09:17:08 PM
Meh. I don't worry about what the public thinks. Sure, if people are cool to me, I will be cool with them. But, I don't worry about that like I did when my transition started. I never was the type to worry about the opinions of other people anyway.
They can step off cuz I'm doing the hump, G!
Working on it with the help of my therapist. my self-conscious issues have always made me way too concerned about what others thought of me. Which (and apologies to all) have shown in an excess of "how do I look" postings where I seek some validation. I am beginning to re-place that emphasis on myself and how I feel, which is far more valuable. I believe that is what Caitlyn is doing, despite all the media attention, and she is an inspiration.
I am also very inspired by Caitlyn! In my experience, many people who make hateful comments are either ignorant and haven't educated themselves on issue (or have tried, but just aren't intellectual enough to understand) or they are hateful people in general. I agree it is hard to ignore comments like that. I try to focus on the positive comments the best I can.
Thanks for the support and +1, Beth :)
I will say something.
I was asked in the coffee room today by my colleagues who have seen the hate posts why are trans*people so loathed? Why can't people just accept you for being you? This from about 12 cismales and women. They all know I'm trans*.
One particular large alpha male even said that if he ever heard anyone say anything against me or other trans* people he would 'bury' them. I asked him not to, just explain that he knew a trans*person and she was just a normal woman.
Caitlyn Jenner is 'brave' yes she is privileged, yes she does have advantages. But she will also read all of the ridicule, the foul jokes and the nasty comments. Even worse than the ones we get.
Yes she has friends in high places, the world's leading photographers, leading magazine editors, powerful people in the media. If they love and accept her, they do also accept us, the community.
Powerful friends are needed, we are getting them. Let the powerful haters come out and hate and joke about us. They label themselves for who and what they are. And they will be seen for that and the backlash will occur.
I also love the T-shirt I saw today with the slogan:
I came out as Transgender before it was cool to do so.
<No offence meant to anyone!>
This is interesting. Because of all the Jenner news:
I came out to all the rest of my family. They were shocked but in the end they accept.
I came out to another large forum community I've been a part of for over 10 years. I expected them to support me but it's been overwhelmingly positive.
Some of my other "friends" have been saying really transphobic and really just gross things about Jenner. When I tell them I'm trans they change their tune. This leads me to conclude that the Jenner news is not really helping me. In fact it's the other way around.
Honestly I didn't expect Jenner's transition to do anything other than make her happy, and that's what it has done. As far as the community goes we still have our work cut out, but this gives us a push to be brave basically.
You know what's great about my city's online paper? You can flag hateful messages, and they go away. I suspect most papers are this way. I just flagged several dozen transphobic comments in a Caitlyn Jenner article. :)
First off, I do agree that any positive exposure for us can only be a good thing. Secondly, my post is worded with respect to the fact that I'm commenting on a person in the public spotlight. I do think it is fair to hold such people to a different standard.
I am having difficulty viewing Caitlyn Jenner as more than another version of the 1% capitalizing upon privilege and access. From my perspective, she has breezed through that which the rest of us have had to work and struggle through for many years. Personally, I believe the struggle, the little victories and setbacks we experience day-to-day, all make us who we are, and we are all the better and stronger for having weathered the storm.
I remember a frightened child who grew up in a repressive Midwestern environment, scared and alone. Her first exposure to transgender culture were the daily horrors of the Jerry Springer Show. She needed a Caitlyn Jenner to do then what Caitlyn is doing now. Having accepted the additional responsibility upon herself as a public figure, she could have saved many trans folk a lot of pain and uncertainty by coming out ~1980 and taking a stand. She proved her strength of character and spirit through her amazing accomplishments as an Olympian, so why did she choose to wait so long?
I am reminded of the classic Spidey adage that 'with great power comes great responsibility'. Indeed, Caitlyn has had the privilege of incredible wealth and status, which currently are prized in American society. She also bears responsibility for the lost opportunity to have helped countless young transgender folk over the last ~30years.
Again, my critique is with respect to a public figure. I am proud of any of us that take up the challenge of facing transition at any age, or under any circumstance.
Am I being unfair? Being a generation behind her, am I asking too much of those who have gone before? I am interested in what others may be willing to share.
Thank you.
Quote from: MugwortPsychonaut on June 03, 2015, 12:46:06 PM
You know what's great about my city's online paper? You can flag hateful messages, and they go away. I suspect most papers are this way. I just flagged several dozen transphobic comments in a Caitlyn Jenner article. :)
+1 for the good work, check your rep!
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: orangeskipper on June 03, 2015, 01:53:21 PM
First off, I do agree that any positive exposure for us can only be a good thing. Secondly, my post is worded with respect to the fact that I'm commenting on a person in the public spotlight. I do think it is fair to hold such people to a different standard.
I am having difficulty viewing Caitlyn Jenner as more than another version of the 1% capitalizing upon privilege and access. From my perspective, she has breezed through that which the rest of us have had to work and struggle through for many years. Personally, I believe the struggle, the little victories and setbacks we experience day-to-day, all make us who we are, and we are all the better and stronger for having weathered the storm.
I remember a frightened child who grew up in a repressive Midwestern environment, scared and alone. Her first exposure to transgender culture were the daily horrors of the Jerry Springer Show. She needed a Caitlyn Jenner to do then what Caitlyn is doing now. Having accepted the additional responsibility upon herself as a public figure, she could have saved many trans folk a lot of pain and uncertainty by coming out ~1980 and taking a stand. She proved her strength of character and spirit through her amazing accomplishments as an Olympian, so why did she choose to wait so long?
I am reminded of the classic Spidey adage that 'with great power comes great responsibility'. Indeed, Caitlyn has had the privilege of incredible wealth and status, which currently are prized in American society. She also bears responsibility for the lost opportunity to have helped countless young transgender folk over the last ~30years.
Again, my critique is with respect to a public figure. I am proud of any of us that take up the challenge of facing transition at any age, or under any circumstance.
Am I being unfair? Being a generation behind her, am I asking too much of those who have gone before? I am interested in what others may be willing to share.
Thank you.
I'm not so sure working on transitioning for three decades qualifies as breezing through. Also, the 1980s weren't a great time for coming out, probably even less so for an iconic male Olympian. Everyone gets to do this at their own pace, and no one owes the community anything, in my opinion.
Hugs, Devlyn
Also, Ms. Jenner stated that concern for her children stayed her hand in the 80s. Many of us have made the same choice. How can we fault her? At that time we had Renée Richards, just as prominent if less a national hero. Given how she was treated, I'm not sure the time was right for a catalyst to be born among us.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on June 03, 2015, 02:00:43 PM
+1 for the good work, check your rep!
Hugs, Devlyn
Merci boucoups!
A couple of day ago i read thread on some site about Caitlyn and how the media is normalizing and even celebrating what the original poster called a freak show or abomination or words to that effect and that it was an attack on men in society. Many agreed and nasty things were written but quite a few were appalled and expressed their dislike of such an attitude vehemently. i went a step further and questioned and attacked their manhood, taunting and aiming with my choice of words to hurt and upset them as much as i could and it worked, i pretty much killed the thread, but i don't feel particularly proud of myself for having done that. i allowed them to upset me. All i can say in my defense is that reading that insecurity inspired judgmental trashy drivel reminded me of the feeling of being in the midst of loathsome bullies, it really brought out the mean rough side in me. i just have to learn to steer clear of these so called discussions on other sites, it does me no good to take part in them. i want to be kind, feminine and understanding, not what i showed that day.
I too have read some nasty or dumb stuff. While I am apprehensive to respond sometimes you can respond with a intelligent response that isn't offensive yet gives your opinion that maybe their view is off. That being said that isn't always easy either and some you wont convince either but we have to fight to a degree. Just hard to fight the oppressors for fear of being oppressed as strange as that sounds.
I couldnt imagine going through my entire life living in a shadow. I applaud Caitlyn for doing what she did. and she did it with class and style. I overlook the transphobic crap
One of my friends (a former LEO) said Jenner is a man because he (she) has a penis. I told him where to stuff himself. He said come on I know when they put inmates in jail that if you have a penis you go with the men.
I told him well bud, if you are so ignorant you belong on my unfriend list and for what it's worth the prison policy sucks. So I unfriended him. He has a big apology for me. I'm not accepting anything less than a FULL apology.
Should have said this earlier but Devlyn you are absolutely right she owes only herself to go at the pace she is comfortable with . Sadly I am sure due to the spotlight she will be pushed a bit more then she would like which would make her journey harder.