I am due to have vfs with Yeson on 8th Jan. Here are my readings from my speech therapist.
Speaking fundamental frequency: 172.11 Hz
The rage was 146.9 - 237.6 HZ
Mean Pitch: 180.54 Hz
At reading task:
Modal pitch was:198.85 Hz
Range was: 143.6 - 284.5 Hz
mean: 199.14 HZ
Girls who've had vfs, what are your thoughts?
Did you have similar readings?
What improvements did you get and how much increase did you achieve?
Thanks
Rita
Pitch wise, 150Hz to 220-250Hz, sometimes as low as 180-200Hz. But the biggest improvement is the timbre or "color" of the voice.
Other noted improvements are feminine laughs, coughs, sneezes, and other involuntary sounds. Yes, even those. :)
I'm assuming these are your postop readings. What do you mean by timber of the voice plz?
Rita
Quote from: Ritana on January 02, 2016, 11:37:37 AM
I'm assuming these are your postop readings. What do you mean by timber of the voice plz?
Rita
Timbre is the difference in tonal quality. For example, a trumpet and a saxophone can play the exact same pitch, but you can tell the difference because they each have a distinct timbre. Even within the same instrument (human voice, for example) tonal differences exist which is how you recognize people by their voices. There are many factors that come into play in terms of what creates timbre- resonance and the overtone series being two major ones.
Your pre op readings are in a female pitch range already. Its going to be interesting what Dr Kim will suggest.
The change in timbre is not always dramatic, but it can be the difference between a voice at 150 Hz sounding male or female. The shorter vocal folds make for a changed timbre because there is less mass that will swing. Its not really like trumpet and tuba but more like flute and trumpet - the part that creates the vibration is different. The size of the resonance body is still the same - so you cannot make a trumpet from a tuba with surgery, this part is more something that comes from speech therapy which lets you control your voice in a way that uses different resonances. With VFS I believe however that it becomes harder to use the male resonances and easier to use the female ones - or more precisely the male resonances are broken and sound hoarse and unclean, while using the female resonances gives a good voice.
Great replies from both, thanks!
Like. I said i work in a call centre and I take hundreds of thousands of calls a year. I only had two queries out of these as to whether i was a man or a woman. Otherwise, O have never been misgendered, whether on the phone or elsewhere. I guess my voice is in the lower female range already. However, with age it will inévitably get deeper, which might result in it becoming in the upper male range. To prevent this from happening, I am recoursing to vfs.
Hmm - I am not sure about the age - even so, it would be compensated by the fact that you are older then and people would take that into account. Your pre OP readings are very similar to my post op readings , incidentially ;)
But of course Dr Kim tries to find your original pitch, the one you had before transitioning, which can be lower than the everyday voice later on.
Quote from: Ritana on January 02, 2016, 11:37:37 AM
I'm assuming these are your postop readings. What do you mean by timber of the voice plz?
Rita
Pre op my fundamental was around 158Hz. Now it is around 220-250 depending.
Timbre is best explained like this - you play a note on a guitar and the same note on a piano they will sound different. Same thing, you listen to a man and listen to a women and both are different, even at the same pitch. :)
I have the full pre op report from Yeson, I think my range was 80 to about 300+Hz.
Quote from: iKate on January 02, 2016, 05:53:56 PM
Pre op my fundamental was around 158Hz. Now it is around 220-250 depending.
Ikate
My understanding is that pitch determines people's perception of a person's gender. I thought if two people(from two opposite biological genders) have the same pitch, then they will automatically be categorised in the same gender?? I really don't seem to get it.
^There are many, many factors that come into play when our ears and brains assign a gender to a voice. Pitch, prosody, tempo, inflection, timbre, etc all play a role in the final assessment. Pitch is only one factor, albeit an important one.
Quote from: Ritana on January 02, 2016, 06:05:19 PM
Quote from: iKate on January 02, 2016, 05:53:56 PM
Pre op my fundamental was around 158Hz. Now it is around 220-250 depending.
Ikate
My understanding is that pitch determines people's perception of a person's gender. I thought if two people(from two opposite biological genders) have the same pitch, then they will automatically be categorised in the same gender?? I really don't seem to get it.
Pitch is only part of the story. It is feminine timbre that gets a voice gendered correctly and that is more complex than just pitch. In fact there is a thread here of someone who is post op from Yeson, 250Hz and still sounds masculine. There is resonance and prosody primarily. With pitch all 3 work in tandem to produce a male or female voice.
Quote from: kwala on January 02, 2016, 06:44:36 PM
^There are many, many factors that come into play when our ears and brains assign a gender to a voice. Pitch, prosody, tempo, inflection, timbre, etc all play a role in the final assessment. Pitch is only one factor, albeit an important one.
I will say that pitch isn't all that important as people make it out to be. Yes it's important but not critical. However most MTFs can benefit from a pitch increase.
Here is my pre op data
Untrained relaxed voice:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1188.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz403%2Frjairam%2F9A4E7007-284F-4E03-BA10-595A68A8E445_zpsj9blod5t.jpg&hash=ccffd39684564852f448178b4a4aba558b34be2f)
Higher pitch (still pre op):
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1188.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fz403%2Frjairam%2F9ED177A1-BEC0-499E-BC5F-A3DEDF2F1554_zpsadh7slgl.jpg&hash=3e14abd7edc244941b1181e6116a0a71f63652f7)
That is very interesting, Ikate.
So vfs can change both pitch and timber?
When Jessi talks about vfs, she usually refers to an pitch increase (74htz in average), I've never heard her mention timber!? Not sure why.
Rita
Quote from: Ritana on January 03, 2016, 01:07:45 AM
That is very interesting, Ikate.
So vfs can change both pitch and timber?
When Jessi talks about vfs, she usually refers to an pitch increase (74htz in average), I've never heard her mention timber!? Not sure why.
Rita
It's probably because the goal of this surgery is to correct pitch, and pitch alone. Changes in timbre do usually occur, but are often very slight. Most of what creates timbre has to do with the shape or your oral and nasal tracks, which are unaffected by this type of procedure. The doctors don't want to advertise changes that can be imperceptible and I don't really blame them. Timbre is something that can be changed with therapy and that's why most (if not all) voice surgeons recommend voice therapy in addition to surgery.
Great, my speech therapist says i have a perfect intonation, and a passable pitch and voice. She advised me against vfs. I just hate when I hear my voice in recordings. I also hate it when i caugh or laugh. Laughter is an important aspect of expressing joy. Restricting/ controlling it can only affect the quality of your life.
Quote from: kwala on January 03, 2016, 01:51:58 AM
It's probably because the goal of this surgery is to correct pitch, and pitch alone. Changes in timbre do usually occur, but are often very slight. Most of what creates timbre has to do with the shape or your oral and nasal tracks, which are unaffected by this type of procedure. The doctors don't want to advertise changes that can be imperceptible and I don't really blame them. Timbre is something that can be changed with therapy and that's why most (if not all) voice surgeons recommend voice therapy in addition to surgery.
Timbre changes because the lower male tones are gone and other artifacts such as glottal fry sound different with shorter vocal folds.
Timbre is important indeed. Also prosody and resonance.
I had a 130-160 Hz speaking pitch pre OP but was usually gendered female because of the resonance and prosody. Timbre was low though , so on the phone I did get misgendered. With surgery, pitch went to 160-190 Hz and timbre changed, so that hopefully the darker timbre is gone well enough to not be misgendered anymore.
Anjaq,
Do you now pass all the time on the phone.or do you have to strain a bit? Have you ever been phone-misgendred since having vfs?
I have not been misgendered at all in the past year, which is great, but I must admit I did not really push ist. I did not have many phone calls where the other does not either know my name or myself already. There are little such occasions somehow. And if so, people usually do not gender someone. Its not like in the US where people constantly call each other sir or madam...
Quote from: Ritana on January 03, 2016, 05:36:59 PM
Anjaq,
Do you now pass all the time on the phone.or do you have to strain a bit? Have you ever been phone-misgendred since having vfs?
I was misgendered once about a month post op on a scratchy line by someone who knew me by my old name and gender. I don't think that really counts. I've not been misgendered since, I always get feminine pronouns more or less instantly IRL and on the phone even with my old name which actually can be unisex.
I can't wait to have the surgery. 2 days to go!
My pre-op conultation is in 2 days' time, on 6th. e had this nasty flu for the last 2 weeks. A dry cough, combined with swollen glands. I have been battling it with some strong antibiotics and home remedies. The infection.serm to have cleared completely this morning. Phewww:)))) What a relief!!!! I was worried sick!!
I wish you the best. Make sure you have no fever at all when you fly. Because the airports have heat detectors in Asia because they are worried about some of these dangerous flu viruses that have been spreading there - and Dr Kim will not do the surgery if you have any flu symptoms or high temperature. Make sure the cough is really gone totally. I went there and had a flu and cough a week before and the coughing just had cleared the day of the flight, I still had a dry throat. I believe this caused me to cough a lot while being in the wake-up stage after surgery and that was not really a good thing, obviously. So really make sure your throat is nice and wet and not swollen anymore... soothe it well :)
I will do Anjaq,
I got here earlier today. I had to pay 69000 won for a taxi from the airport to phil house. Which i found extortionate!
I checked in a couple of hours ago. I can't understand anything as everything is in korean.
I have my appointment tomorrow with dr kim for a preop consultation. Feeling nervous already !!
Rita
Ah darn, you did not ask about this - there is a fast train and a bus going from the airport to the city as the airport is an hour drive away, so taxi is expensive. It makes sense to take the bus to the city and then take a taxi only for the short distance within the city. Within the city, taxi rides are just 10-20 EU usually. But the subway is usually all you need. there are 2 subway stations near Yeson, both are about equally long walk, but I think one of the lines had a shorter transfer walk to the connecting subway to Phil house...
I would taka a taxi on the afternoon of surgery day, its worth it. But other than that, the subway is great. If you plan on sightseeing, get a rechargeable subway card, its a bit cheaper and more convenient.
The people at Phil House usually have one or two of them speaking english quite good, but in the restaurants sometimes it all just korean and you can already practice ordering and paying by pointing with your fingers and making photos of dishes on the posters outside and then showing them to the people in the restaurant - lol - its how things will work for you in the next weeks anyways ;)
Good luck for the examination ... maybe you could ask them one thing , if you dare - usually they do the voice exercise explanation after the surgery when you cannot really ask questions anymore. Several patients so far found this very inconvenient because you cannot test the exercises , so you just forget about them and then do them not right later on. Mabye if you want, you can ask if they would be willing to do this with you pre-OP, so you can memorize them better. But probably they are on a tight schedule and have no time.
I took the subway everywhere.
There are guides online such as korea4expats.com which help you navigate as a foreigner
Well, I guess it's too late now, but no one had warned me about this on here. I assumed it's Seoul.Airpirt and Phil House is in Seoul too. I had arrived from a 24 hour flight, was knackered and i thought it was ok to take a taxi. Plus, Jessi did advise me to take an orange taxi (she said is much cheaper), whiwh is what I did.
Phil house is OK for the puroose, but i mean what's the point of having a self-contained studiio with a fridge a'd A COOKER if there's are no utensils in the cupboards to prepare food or even a kettle to boil water to make a coffee in the morning!!?
Anyway, I know there's a supermarket around here. but not sure where exactly?
Rita
LOL, yeah, Jessie is concerned more about your comfort and making it all easy rather than money. They figure if you can spend $8000 on a surgery, you can afford a taxi as well.
Regarding Phil House - you are allowed to take pots and pans and everything from the guest kitchen downstairs! You are however supposed to bring them back in a clean state again. Also if you want to use the washing machine, you can get soap at the reception, no need to buy a big box of it for just one or two loads. You also have to bring down your towels and fetch new ones if you want them changed. Also , you can get toilet paper at the reception if you need more. Lastly, if you happen to be very cold, the reception has some additional blankets that they can give you if it is really needed. Oh and if the toilet clogs - don't worry, its apparently a typical Korean problem that they do. They have a plunger at the reception , but better to do it like all koreans do, even in the public restraurants and dispose of toilet paper in a trashcan instead of trying to flush it down. I know, its really weird, but it seems like everyone in Korea is doing this because they do not have the same kind of flush toilets as we know them.