My wife - I came out to her just a few weeks ago - keeps calling me a selfish person because I finally decided to transition. She also told me that fathering our children was a grossly negligent act while knowing I was trans.... She is really struggling hard to accept that her husband is in fact a woman and during a recent joint therapy session she almost fainted because my GT kept using female pronouns when referring to me in front of her...
I have my next therapy session - alone - next week and I'm expecting her to give me the reference letter for the endo but I'm struggling really hard right now with myself because I decided pro-transition - I see no other way - and since my wife cannot accept the female me - especially in front of the kids - she will move away with the kids... at least for now.... I feel really bad and selfish....
Life sucks!
-Jessie
I don't think selfish is the word and I can't really think of a word that fits. The problem is TG or not, humans have found a infinite number of ways to mess up their lives. We don't plan or wish it to turn out that way but the unexpected happens and things turn out in a way that if we could change it, we would. There is a very old saying that you may have heard before "best-laid plans of mice and men oft(en) go astray" which reduces it to a few simple words.
When this happens, you only have two options. Let it fester and get worst or pick up the pieces and try to put something back together again. Attending therapy is a good start towards building a future. I don't know which option your wife will pick, but i hope she attempts to build the best future possible.
Short answer. Yes.
Transition is one of the most selfish things we can do - we are doing it for no one else other than ourselves, our sanity, our peace of mind. But you know what? That is OK. And who knows, when we have transitioned and become ourselves and are better able to function in society and contribute better to it because of that then maybe it will turn out we weren't so "selfish" after all.
It sounds like your wife is confusing your need to transition with some nefarious deception and/or random lifestyle choice. The sense of deception and betrayal is common with SOs whose partners come out as trans. A lot of them say their partner should have told them before marriage, or before children and sure, they have reasonable grounds to expect transparency, but they often can't or won't see or understand why we keep it to ourselves as a shameful, fearful secret...until we no longer can.
So yes we are selfish, but not for the reasons others imagine.
Jessica, each of transition because we need to because of who we are. I suppose one could view that as a selfish act, but in fact we do so because have to and that our own survival depends on our transitioning. I know it can be difficult seeing your relationship with your wife fall apart as you move forward. I can only hope in the long run things improve between the two of you. It's wonderful your attending therapy already and that is a step in moving forward both in your transition, but your life. Ultimately your spouse can't live your life and only you can. I can only hope in time she understands that. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah
I don't really see transitioning as being a selfish act. Not at all. I remember the first time that my mom threw that "you are just being selfish" line at me a long time ago. I told her the truth: I wasn't selfish at all. The only reason I kept it to myself, (well, from age 13 onward anyway. From 4 to 12, I gave off so many signs it was absurd), was that I didn't want to burden her.
I told her if I truly was selfish, I would have blown my brains out at age 10 and let them deal with the aftermath. I would have considered THAT to be selfish. But, I didn't. I stuck around ONLY because of her and the rest of my family. I certainly wasn't enjoying my life at that point. (Being bullied and all of that crap)
I also brought up how, again, I didn't bring up transitioning at age 19, because she was divorcing my dad and I didn't want to throw more stuff on top of what she was going through. Of course, she tells me now that none of it would have mattered and we would have did this and did that, yadda, yadda, yadda. But, I remember how things were and how everyone was reacting. (Even though they weren't able to put 2 and 2 together. ::))
But, eventually a decade went by and I finally did what I had to do. Yeah, it caused a lot of problems at first. But, after a few years, everyone (well...most of them) saw that this is what I truly needed to do.
I'm sure they would prefer my current situation to going and grooming my grave a couple times a year. Because that was exactly was where I was headed.
Dear Jessica,
If your wife just heard a few weeks ago, she is probably experiencing whiplash. You probably thought about this a long time, maybe all of your life. Might I suggest considering giving her some adjustment time. Many times our first response isn't the way we really feel. People need time to come to terms with such a big change. Maybe she could talk to someone without you? I wish you luck.
Moni
Quote from: Mariah2014 on January 29, 2016, 09:07:51 PM
Jessica, each of transition because we need to because of who we are. I suppose one could view that as a selfish act, but in fact we do so because have to and that our own survival depends on our transitioning. I know it can be difficult seeing your relationship with your wife fall apart as you move forward. I can only hope in the long run things improve between the two of you. It's wonderful your attending therapy already and that is a step in moving forward both in your transition, but your life. Ultimately your spouse can't live your life and only you can. I can only hope in time she understands that. Good luck and Hugs
Mariah
Thanks Mariah - especially for the hugs :)
my relationship with my wife has been falling apart way before I came out to her. I've been a terrible husband and father mostly because I was there physically but mentally I was far away....
She now calls me a liar and tells me that she could never trust me anymore as our entire life was based on a bunch of lies... If she only would understand that I was just too ashamed to ever tell her about those feelings that I wasn't even sure what they were.
Her biggest fear now is that our kids could "get it", too which makes me feel like I have some highly addictive disease like ebola while I personally don't hate being trans - I don't even think I would choose - if I could - to wakeup tomorrow morning as a normal cis-male. Does this make sense?
Love
-J
Your welcome. It completely makes sense. It's hard for some to grasp and as a result of not having their own frame of reference some think you can catch it as a result. I can only hope in time that we can educate people so they understand that this isn't something you catch. I can only hope your spouse understands that some day. Hang in there. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: JessicaSondelli on January 29, 2016, 09:39:07 PM
Thanks Mariah - especially for the hugs :)
my relationship with my wife has been falling apart way before I came out to her. I've been a terrible husband and father mostly because I was there physically but mentally I was far away....
She now calls me a liar and tells me that she could never trust me anymore as our entire life was based on a bunch of lies... If she only would understand that I was just too ashamed to ever tell her about those feelings that I wasn't even sure what they were.
Her biggest fear now is that our kids could "get it", too which makes me feel like I have some highly addictive disease like ebola while I personally don't hate being trans - I don't even think I would choose - if I could - to wakeup tomorrow morning as a normal cis-male. Does this make sense?
Love
-J
When I see questions like this, I have to redirect the question slightly.
If we are selfish, is there something inherently wrong with that? I've been selfless at my expense most of my life. I've gone out of my way to help and heal others. It has halted my own progress through life and I've suffered greatly for it. Now I'm being selfish and I'm owning it. I'm not doing it to spite anyone. I'm doing it because I need it to survive after going so long without it. I never stopped caring about others. I just started caring about myself for once.
Some people are rather selfish and self serving, others not so much
Seems there could be a balance found between selfishness and consideration for others where all individuals find harmony
But this balance can only be achieved by each individual having the ability to obtain confidence within themselves while still being able reach out to help others
Often conceit, greed and insecurity will obstruct such ability
My wife called her Employee Assistance Program (EAP) shortly after I came out to her.
It was scary for her to admit who because she started the call saying "a family member" just announced that they were trans. She was glad that she told them "who" because they connected her with an awesome, compassionate woman therapist for a phone consultation. We trans are excited about finally being "out", but for the mate, it can be like slowly watching a loved one die (to be reborn as a better person for certain, but it takes time for others to feel it). The therapist advised my wife of some things she could expect/anticipate and told her about the books My Husband Betty and She's Not The Man I Married. Reading these, plus being honest about our feelings, have really helped both of us during these past few months of being "under the radar" with family and others.
You're acknowledging who you are. Please be gentle with yourself and with your wife. Blessings.
"Selfish" is such a nonsense, broad, loaded term. Nearly every, maybe all, human actions are selfish. They are motivated on some level by self interest, either direct benefit or protecting the ego.
It is selfish to transition. It is also selfish to prevent a trans person from transitioning. How do you resolve the competing selfish motives? Utility!
In the transition scenario, the trans person gets to get a whole bunch of utility, because they are aligning their mind and body. Nearly everyone who gets on board gets utility, because they get to know the best version of the person they care about. Children get better parents, friends get better friends, businesses get better employees. Mostly, it's only the unsupportive who lose utility. About the only supportive person I can see that loses utility is a spouse without sexual fluidity. They lose a romantic partner, but can recoup most of that with a gain of a great friend or co-parent.
In the preventing transition scenario the trans person who needs to transition loses a lot of utility. In some cases all of it. We can't turn off the part of our brains that needs to transition, so we just slowly drive ourselves into depression, anxiety, and other bad parts of brain town. The people that rely on this person who is circling the drain, the ones that would have supported transition, also lose utility. The ones that *may* gain utility are those that would not have supported, and they can only gain if the utility they gain from preventing the transition outweighs the losses derived from the collapse of the trans person.
Basically, put on a balance, it's hard to think of a scenario when preventing a necessary transition leads to a net increase of utility in the world.
Is it selfish for your wife to live as a woman? If you demanded she live as a man and she refused, would it be reasonable to call her selfish?
Given that the answer to this question is pretty clearly "no", I don't see why it's reasonable to call us selfish to want to be ourselves either.
A better question might be, is it selfish to ask a trans woman to continue to live a lie and not be herself?
Since I kind of grew up with the conviction that my misery didn't matter, a conviction that I've never been able to really shake, I have a different way of answering this:
I have two children. (Okay, they're in their 20's, but only chronologically.) What do they need? Some miserable, depressed parent who is likely to die soon because he can't look forward to anything except being dead? A parent who preaches honesty but is all too obviously living a lie?
The claim that you're harming your children by transitioning is, pardon my French, BS. Your kids may not like it, but then, they probably don't like having to go to school or cleaning up their room, either. In the long run, though, they need an honest parent, one who can give of their entire self, rather than a fraud. (And what kind of example does that set them, if you and your wife in effect run away when faced with something tough?)
And that's the point. People who insist you should deny your TG nature are asking you to participate in a lie, a mutual lie to spare them a momentary bit of inconvenience. It's like painting over dry rot -- in the long run, the lie will spread and ruin everything until the whole structure collapses. Better in the long run to dig out and remove the dry rot (the lie) as soon as you see it.
I mean, if you'd broken your leg, going on walking around on it would, in the (very!) short run, spare the people around you some hassle, but of course in the long run, it would be a whole lot worse for everyone.
I understand the desire to deny it. If you break your leg, usually the first thought is like, no, this isn't happening, can't I pretend it's just a bad bruise? But you have to address it, and address it promptly, to avoid much bigger problems down the road.
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 29, 2016, 09:04:38 PM
Short answer. Yes.
Transition is one of the most selfish things we can do - we are doing it for no one else other than ourselves, our sanity, our peace of mind. But you know what? That is OK. And who knows, when we have transitioned and become ourselves and are better able to function in society and contribute better to it because of that then maybe it will turn out we weren't so "selfish" after all.
Ms. Grace says it well . . . Rachel
There is selfish and then there is selfish. Do you have every right to follow the right path for you? Yes! Is it okay to be transgender and want everything to happen yesterday? Yes! It's the nature of being trans in many cases. Right? I see it as finally paying attention to your needs that you probably ignored for so long. Selfish? I wouldn't say so.
On the other hand, and I don't know your relationship, it kind of sounds selfish for you to expect her to adjust overnight. You are ready to move like greased lightening while she is at a totally different place. She sounds protective of the kids. Did she just have the baby recently? Has she had a chance to talk to someone about the subject, maybe without you there? It sounds like she needs some facts about what being transgender means. Also, maybe she needs a little time to grieve the family she thought she had. Or to just calm down a bit!
All I am saying is every transgender person on this planet probably wants to be respected by others. Don't we have a bit of responsibility to try to respect the feelings of others as well? In your case, even if you split up, you will still have to deal with her, hopefully in a good way, for the benefit of your kids. Maybe trying to see how she feels and giving her some time to understand might even avoid a breakup. In no way is this saying you should stop your plans.
Just maybe start your new life as a person aware of other people's feelings. I kind person.
Hope this doesn't sound preachy too much. I am married with two kids myself (although older). My family is very supportive. I don't think they would be that way if I didn't show the respect and patience I show them.
Honestly, I wish you luck finding happiness.
Moni
For Pete's sake....
Everyone is selfish to some extent. If you never put yourself first, how would you be alive right now? No one can ever be 100% selfless because you need to care for yourself since you are human like an other individual.
When people give, even they are kinda selfish, cause they did that because they wanted to.
Everyone is selfish.....so anyone who call's you selfish are pointing at themselves. Most parents, for example have kids and push their own failed ambitions and expectations onto them because...they are selfish.
Or the other way to look at it someone saying you are selfish for doing x is that THEY are being selfish for only thinking about x affects them and not how x might help the person.
Quote from: JessicaSondelli on January 29, 2016, 08:43:45 PM
My wife - I came out to her just a few weeks ago - keeps calling me a selfish person because I finally decided to transition. She also told me that fathering our children was a grossly negligent act while knowing I was trans.... She is really struggling hard to accept that her husband is in fact a woman and during a recent joint therapy session she almost fainted because my GT kept using female pronouns when referring to me in front of her...
I have my next therapy session - alone - next week and I'm expecting her to give me the reference letter for the endo but I'm struggling really hard right now with myself because I decided pro-transition - I see no other way - and since my wife cannot accept the female me - especially in front of the kids - she will move away with the kids... at least for now.... I feel really bad and selfish....
Life sucks!
-Jessie
Hi Jessica.
I completely understand what you are saying. My main reason for not intending to go full transition is that I know it could potentially ruin my marriage, leave my child with emotional issues, & that's not to even say what could happen with my career, friends, family, etc.
The truth is that most of us would have been better off transitioning before we met our spouses, but we can't change the past. All you can do is decide what you can potentially live less with, your body, or your marriage. Only you can make the call on that decision.
Dana
Quoting my favorite author:
QuoteSelfishness is not living as one wishes to live, it is asking others to live as one wishes to live. And unselfishness is letting other people's lives alone, not interfering with them. Selfishness always aims at creating around it an absolute uniformity of type. Unselfishness recognizes infinite variety of type as a delightful thing, accepts it, acquiesces in it, enjoys it. It is not selfish to think for oneself. A man who does not think for himself does not think at all. It is grossly selfish to require of one's neighbor that he should think in the same way, and hold the same opinions. Why should he? If he can think, he will probably think differently. If he cannot think, it is monstrous to require thought of any kind from him. A red rose is not selfish because it wants to be a red rose. It would be horribly selfish if it wanted all the other flowers in the garden to be both red and roses.
― Oscar Wilde, The Soul of Man and Prison Writings
I really wish there was a like button for posts, there is a lot of good posts in this thread.
I don't think transistion is selfish. If transistion is selfish, taking painkillers are selfish too. You care about yourself for a better life that is worth to live and for better health. Even you just transistion because you, it's still not selfish. As long as you are kind and friendly to other people, it would be fine. I think we all should care about both parts, our self and other people. It's important to care about other people and be nice to them, but it's also important to care about yourself so you can live a good life. People who tell transgenders people transistion is selfish isn't better. Telling other what they should do or not to do in a rude way is mean. Telling other people they are selfish is mean. There aren't anything wrong with you. It's the people around you who choose a fundamentalist way to think. I don't say fundamentalists are always wrong, but I'm often disagree with them.
Quote from: BlindCourage on February 03, 2016, 01:40:33 PM
At the end of the day, you have to decide what you can live with a be happy. Can you be happy not fully transitioning in order to save your marriage? Can you give that a go for a little while to see if it works for you and your family? The option to fully transition isn't going to disappear if you explore other avenues first.
Our problem is slightly more difficult... I guess. Even if I would not fully transition to female, my wife still has big issues as I see myself as a female no matter how far I will go and she is 100% heterosexual so she will always see a woman in me no matter how I present myself which would make her a lesbian so I see no option at this time that could save our marriage but we're working on transforming our marriage into a friendship...
Why is life so complicated and confusing??
-Jessie
Quote from: JessicaSondelli on February 03, 2016, 03:03:32 PM
Our problem is slightly more difficult... I guess. Even if I would not fully transition to female, my wife still has big issues as I see myself as a female no matter how far I will go and she is 100% heterosexual so she will always see a woman in me no matter how I present myself which would make her a lesbian so I see no option at this time that could save our marriage but we're working on transforming our marriage into a friendship...
Why is life so complicated and confusing??
-Jessie
I understand Jessie. My wife is 100% heterosexual and despises any conversation of woman on woman(Believe me I have tried to probe her in the past by watching lesbian videos to gauge her reaction). I've known since I was kid that I was different, just realized how I was different too late to spare her from marrying me. She isn't happy sexually, but we both are from traditional families and stick it out for that reason.
Dana
People nowadays are entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness... I don't see how it's selfish to transition, since transition is for the want of these things. If everyone else has the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and that is not considered selfish of them but acceptable for all, then people who whine about someone's transition being selfish are only doing so because they're annoyed or inconvenienced by it. In the end, changing yourself is the only true freedom we have in this world, because we can't really change the world itself. Only ourselves. If that is selfish, then screw this world and its values... I'll be selfish then and I don't care.
Quote from: Mavis on February 03, 2016, 02:14:05 PM
I really wish there was a like button for posts, there is a lot of good posts in this thread.
I totally second that!!
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Quote from: Adchop on February 03, 2016, 03:40:06 PM
I understand Jessie. My wife is 100% heterosexual and despises any conversation of woman on woman(Believe me I have tried to probe her in the past by watching lesbian videos to gauge her reaction). I've known since I was kid that I was different, just realized how I was different too late to spare her from marrying me. She isn't happy sexually, but we both are from traditional families and stick it out for that reason.
Dana
But honestly, I prefer a great friendship over a miserable marriage. I still love my wife but I rather keep her as a good friend where both sides can find their piece of happiness...
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Are we selfish because we eat 2-3 times a day, when we could survive on one? Are we selfish in working out and spending that time and money on something as selfish as body shape, looks etc? Are selfish when we exercise our mind by reading a book or watching a movie, these are not necessary to survive. Are we selfish when we want to have an orgasm during intimacy?
Part of being a good person for others in your life is also taking care of yourself, and having those loved ones hold your interests high in importance. Indeed, you could only really do a good job in looking out for their interests if you are also taken care of in turn. It's a symbiotic circle. Sure there are seasons for very intense selflessness, but as a whole we always come back to ourselves.
What she is really saying is " You want to change, i don't want you to - so i expect you will not change for me" That is unrealistic as all people change, some dramatic and some subtle. The other person's choice is to change with them, support them, ignore it all or move along to some other place.
Quote from: JessicaSondelli on February 03, 2016, 06:04:18 PM
But honestly, I prefer a great friendship over a miserable marriage. I still love my wife but I rather keep her as a good friend where both sides can find their piece of happiness...
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All our paths are different. Each of us is responsible for finding our own way to peace.
If you & your wife can be friends, that sounds like a good start.
My wife is a jealous woman, which is why I'm sure she couldn't handle me being honest with her. She would want nothing to do with just being friends.
Too, too often someone who accuses you of being selfish is really saying "I want what I want and you won't give it to me." They're being selfish.... Hmm, I guess I'm feeling cynical today.
Quote from: Ms Grace on January 29, 2016, 09:04:38 PM
Short answer. Yes.
Transition is one of the most selfish things we can do - we are doing it for no one else other than ourselves, our sanity, our peace of mind. But you know what? That is OK. And who knows, when we have transitioned and become ourselves and are better able to function in society and contribute better to it because of that then maybe it will turn out we weren't so "selfish" after all.
It sounds like your wife is confusing your need to transition with some nefarious deception and/or random lifestyle choice. The sense of deception and betrayal is common with SOs whose partners come out as trans. A lot of them say their partner should have told them before marriage, or before children and sure, they have reasonable grounds to expect transparency, but they often can't or won't see or understand why we keep it to ourselves as a shameful, fearful secret...until we no longer can.
So yes we are selfish, but not for the reasons others imagine.
I'm very disagree with you. Transistion isn't selfish, it's about taking care of yourself. Is eating selfish, is using painkillers selfish, is having fun selfish? I don't see it as selfish. It's important to care about people around you, but it's also important to care about yourself so you can be happy, and survive. Some people take medicine to survive and live a life with better quality. Is they selfish too?
In my opinion being selfish is being greedy,
just thinking at yourself and make other people suffer/give people pain. If you balance these elements: thinking sometimes at yourself and sometimes at other people around you, I don't consider you selfish. That means you care about other people and are kind, but also want to live a happy life. I think transistion isn't the most selfish thing we can do, because for me it's not selfish. Killing, stealing, greediness, don't care and make people suffering is the most selfishness thing we humans can do. I don't get it why you see transistion as selfish, but I respect your opinion.
I am not selfish. I am in transition to be happier person. I did not hurt any one, just need acceptance by my family, friend and society. That not much to ask.
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Is breathing selfish? How about needing food on a regular basis? Clothing? Shelter? Affection?
Guess I'm guilty. But I'm okay with that. Offing myself would, in my view, be rather more selfish.
Thomas
Not that I think this is a hugely important issue,
unless on an individual or group basis the actions therein are harmful to oneself or others.
____________________
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/selfish
Merriam‑Webster
1 : concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others. 2 : arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others <a selfish act> ... She's interested only in ...
____________________
It's quite possible to be selfish and still avoid being as apposed to judged as <bad, evil, scheming, . . . etc.> Of course, ones POV has a lot to do with how and from where one judges another, and for the record generally I find the act of being judged distasteful regardless of the outcome.
If as trans-folk we can give up the paradigm of right and wrong associated with our condition, then we become free see for what it actually is in all various aspects over time. Being trans is as powerful, whole and complete state of the human condition as one can imagine if there's no right/wrong and/or good/bad associated with it; rather, it simply is. This includes all those folks who aren't trans and cling to the r/w and/or g/b and how we as trans community members respond to them.
This doesn't excuse them (or us) for behaving poorly or even judging for that matter, but it does say something about the discourse occurring about/for/of transgender of humanity's more base frailties set against permitting a generative social commons that lifts us all as a species.
So, yes . . . it's fine to be selfish when a degree of focus and commitment is necessary to create/protect life that generates full self-expression, freedom, and power including without fear for doing so. Indeed, this demands that there are times when the needs of the one do out weigh the needs of the many . . . it's often difficult for the many in those times (and the one as we so often find), but that does not make the matter somehow subject justified in and deserving of spurious judgements when something so fundamental as "self" is at stake. For if we don not know ourselves then who do we know?
Take care all and may we all have love and self-awareness in abundance,
Rachel
QuoteMerriam‑Webster
1 : concerned excessively or exclusively with oneself : seeking or concentrating on one's own advantage, pleasure, or well-being without regard for others. 2 : arising from concern with one's own welfare or advantage in disregard of others <a selfish act> ... She's interested only in ...
well then if you are married with children then coming out is selfish, as I have been told I should have taken being trans to the grave. I am told that there is no follow ups to children in their adult years on the psychological damage caused by their parent being trans. My father in law says he would have taken it to the grave if it was him to protect his wife and kids mental anguish. My wife says she would suffer to protect her children. Now I am stuck feeling like I cannot transition because doing so would mean that I care more about myself then my children and wife.
p.s. my mother says her neighbor came out as trans to his two sons in their teens and they never grew up, still living in parents garage as hermits now in their 30's
From the Oxford Dictionary:
(Of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure:
So the question is are you doing this for profit or pleasure.
I don't think doing something for one's health, physical or mental, is selfish at all.
The problem isn't in selfishness. The problem is that most other people refuse to see this for what it is. It's akin to if you had epilepsy in the days before modern medicine. If someone came from the future and offered you a medicinal cure, for a price, you would be called selfish for spending money your family could use. Because everybody knows the real cause is demons and you can get an exorcism for free.
Actually this is worse because generally lacking external symptoms people just deny its existence altogether. Most lack the intellectual curiosity and empathy necessary to understand or accept anything outside their own personal sphere of experience.
Sapere Aude
nicely put!
Dear Mavis:
Without taking anything away from what you said for I'm sure it's pretty accurate, the argument you are making is a false equivalence. First, it's easy to say what one would do when there aren't any real consequences in doing so; second, embedded in the argument is an evaluation without any evidence that you are worth less than . . .; and third, it's prejudicial given the position being taken by those who don't have to take a position that confronts their own personal well-being, i.e. it would be better to take "it" to your grave. Until you or them have looked into the abyss, neither you nor they are informed enough to make such comments; and this is not a recommendation to take a look. From personal experience, it doesn't end well however it ends.
I'm not arguing here with you. I agree, YOU ARE BEING SELFISH and there are times when that's the only logical thing to do . . . this is one of them. This may land poorly with you now, but you are a good person too with all the rights and pursuits we all should have . . . being trans does not change that, even if we wish it did. It just makes us suffer from existential guilt.
Take care and tanks for posting,
Rachel
I'm sorry to sound depressing here, but anyone who wants to guilt trip me by saying that my transitioning is hurting them or others who love me really has two choices. Either they get their feelings hurt by watching me transition or they get to deal with the far worse alternative of dealing with my suicide (yes, I have stood at the edge of that cliff before). I know that isn't something every trans person faces, but there are other consequences besides that which make the threat of selfishness seem petty.
Quote from: JessicaSondelli on January 29, 2016, 08:43:45 PM
My wife - I came out to her just a few weeks ago - keeps calling me a selfish person because I finally decided to transition. She also told me that fathering our children was a grossly negligent act while knowing I was trans....
Dropping the t-bomb on a partner often turns their world upside down and I really do feel for them, but does that make you selfish? No, but it is terribly unfortunate that many of us didn't disclose our trans status
prior to building a life with someone. I'm guilty of this, and it caused a
lot of damage. Before marriage, I had not disclosed my feelings to anyone, and I thought I could live with it being my little secret forever. Besides, in the early stages of the relationship, the dysphoria was manageable. Back then, I didn't fully understand why I felt the way I did, and I had no idea that the dysphoria would gradually intensify to such an extent that it completely overwhelmed my coping mechanisms; It was literally sucking the life out of me! Had I known then what I know now, of course I would've told her beforehand.
If only the internet was around back then...
It is healthy to be selfish, normal even. What isn't healthy is to deny yourself your own identity in fear of reproach. To constantly sacrifice yourself for others isn't a good thing, and you won't be thanked for it. People may call you selfish for transitioning, but it's a moot point. If you transition, it's for yourself and your own happiness, what another person thinks about it doesn't matter. Live your truth, and deal with the consequences as they arise.
Hugs,
- Katie
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Family is not always blood - it is the close bond of people who stay together through thick and thin. The time is now to create your own, new family. Your old family can choose to remain with you in your new family or fall off into their own abyss.
You are NOT selfish for transitioning to wherever you know you need to be. Transition will bring out the best in you to be a better person for those who are your true family and friends. You already know this; we at this thread are merely confirming what you know.
Speaking from personal experience, I got hit with my family's selfishness. They had no reluctance to express their selfishness.
There was no great announcement because mine were child and teen years of frequent feminine protest tantrums.
My family had no complications accepting me during my part-time as long as they saw me only during or when I presented to them as my 'male' persona. They did not want to know and see me as my devolving female self.
When I made my change to full-time and forever female, my family en masse rejected me. They left me to pick up my pieces and move elsewhere on my own in life. That was okay. A lifetime of their letdowns and my own counselling prepared me for my life without them. I live with my self just fine, thank you very much.
- My parents went to their graves hating me and refusing to accept me.
- My sister is quite the piece of work. She has a long, written history of her attacks against me yet within the past month she told me what she wrote never happened and she demands among her 'ground rules' that I must forget all the past hurt she committed against me.
- Other cousins - whether near or far, socially or geographically - also rejected me. The worst denial came last year from one cousin who was more of a sister to me than my sister. She now denies my entire existance; she removed me entirely from her life. I feel sad for her.
I choose that famous 'Godfather' quote: 'Keep your friends close, your enemies closer'.
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I personally believe it is a selfish act. Here is some advice my priest who was also a psychologist gave me years ago on an unrelated matter.
To sum up what he said.... You are spreading yourself so thin and making yourself so miserable. When we get to this point due to helping others, not only are you not helping them you are killing your soul. You can only truly make a difference in their lives after you have made one in your own. You have to make sure you are happy and whole mind, body, and spirit. Otherwise, your misery wears onto everyone you come in contact with, and your discontentment shows through the mask you put on everyday. You will help no one living in misery no matter what consequences being a bit selfish creates it will all come full circle. Once you are happy it will radiate off of you and then your help will be not only better received, but also better quality.
OK, I couldn't put that in quotations because it was almost 10 years ago. The monologue was very ling the way I wrote it, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I think of this very often and apply it to many situations. I believe this is an appropriate advice for our situations. I have always been super self sacrificing and this has helped me prioritize.
I really hope this helps you. It has helped me through a lit including coming out as trans. I sincerely wish you good luck .
Delilah ❤
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I think is excellent advice. We have to be happy first before help any body else.
Luanne
Quote from: Mavis on February 05, 2016, 04:00:52 AM
Well, if you are married and have children, then coming out is selfish, as I have been told I should have taken being trans to the grave. I am told that there is no follow ups to children in their adult years on the psychological damage caused by their parent being trans. My father in law says he would have taken it to the grave if it was him to protect his wife and kids mental anguish. My wife says she would suffer to protect her children. Now I am stuck feeling like I can not transition because doing so would mean that I care more about myself then my children and wife.
p.s. my mother says her neighbor came out as trans to his two sons in their teens and they never grew up, still living in parents garage as hermits now in their 30's
Coming out of the closet and being yourself isn't selfish. It's not selfish to transistion either. Transistion can happening social and medical.
People who refuse you to be yourself are selfish, not you. If the people around you can't respect you, it's not a good thing thought. Then they do hurt you. Being transgender doesn't harm anybody around you and transistion doesn't harm people around you either. You have full right to be yourself. If your wife can't respect you and don't wish anything good upon you, it's not real love. I don't cheering for a breakup. My point is a person who truly love you would respect you for who you are. Living a life as a role to your death isn't the same as being yourself. It's important to be yourself for a good and valuable life. You don't need to listening to your wife, father, mother or anybody around you always. You know yourself better. Even you have a close relationship to them doesn't mean they are always right. In many fundamentalists society they think and experience difference than what we do. Your father is probably not transgender, so he doesn't know how it feels. He can't decide what you should do or not, especially since he don't know how your experience and feelings are.
Quote from: Qrachel on February 05, 2016, 04:32:47 AM
Dear Mavis:
Without taking anything away from what you said for I'm sure it's pretty accurate, the argument you are making is a false equivalence. First, it's easy to say what one would do when there aren't any real consequences in doing so; second, embedded in the argument is an evaluation without any evidence that you are worth less than . . .; and third, it's prejudicial given the position being taken by those who don't have to take a position that confronts their own personal well-being, i.e. it would be better to take "it" to your grave. Until you or them have looked into the abyss, neither you nor they are informed enough to make such comments; and this is not a recommendation to take a look. From personal experience, it doesn't end well however it ends.
I'm not arguing here with you. I agree, YOU ARE BEING SELFISH and there are times when that's the only logical thing to do . . . this is one of them. This may land poorly with you now, but you are a good person too with all the rights and pursuits we all should have . . . being trans does not change that, even if we wish it did. It just makes us suffer from existential guilt.
Take care and tanks for posting,
Rachel
How are she selfish? I can't see anything that do her selfish. Maybe the comment is edited or something. I don't get it why you think she is selfish. When other from the forum think someone are selfish, it's really scary. I thought our community stand up together, not work against each other. Marvis may believe at people around her because she has always been told what's right and wrong by people that raised her up. As I understands it, she's a bit unsure or do questioning something. When a fundamentalist group or family always tell you what they think and you don't know about difference ideas, it's natural to believing at they you know from the past.
If I didn't know which color the sky was because I haven't seen it, and my friends and family always tell me it's pink, I would probably believe them until I get others perspectives. I don't think Marvis are selfish, I believe she just have more to learn. I understands the comment difference from you. Maybe you understand it right, maybe I do it. I have no idea. :)Marvis comment:QuoteWell, if you are married and have children, then coming out is selfish, as I have been told I should have taken being trans to the grave. I am told that there is no follow ups to children in their adult years on the psychological damage caused by their parent being trans. My father in law says he would have taken it to the grave if it was him to protect his wife and kids mental anguish. My wife says she would suffer to protect her children. Now I am stuck feeling like I can not transition because doing so would mean that I care more about myself then my children and wife.
p.s. my mother says her neighbor came out as trans to his two sons in their teens and they never grew up, still living in parents garage as hermits now in their 30's
Dear Sebby Michelango:
Read your post carefully and think I understand and appreciate your POV. I'm comfortable with what I said and am willing to accept there are many opinions on this subject and mine is simply part of that pool of discourse.
I hope this note finds you well . . . :)
Take good care,
Rachel
Quote from: Qrachel on February 06, 2016, 12:57:55 PM
Dear Sebby Michelango:
Read your post carefully and think I understand and appreciate your POV. I'm comfortable with what I said and am willing to accept there are many opinions on this subject and mine is simply part of that pool of discourse.
I hope this note finds you well . . . :)
Take good care,
Rachel
Maybe we just understands same text difference. I didn't get it why she is selfish. For me her family sounds very fundamentalists and refuse to accept her. That sounds worse. But anyway, everybody has difference opinions and experience the world difference. ;)
If you plan on going into the medical field, that gives you the added bonus that you will likely work for non-profit which means you are only obligated to pay off loans for max of ten years, percentage based on your income (you would only end up paying more if you earned more).
What if you literally have nobody else in your life you can possibly affect in any real way by transitioning? No significant others, no friends or family...
Kinda like if a tree falls in the forest and nobody's there to hear it, did it even make a sound.