I Just dont get It . Why 1 year ? Like if I am going to change My mind when I deeply want a vagina since im 5 year old not even knowing I was A woman at this time . Ive Been followed closely by psychologist for Months And she Just wrote me A 15 page report about My transexuality And that SRS is required for me . I Also met à psychiatrist this week who confirmed It And gave me second letter . I had FFS And A breast augmentation 1.5 month ago ... Like ... Why doesnt they do exception for sure case.. This piss me off... Having to live another 8.5 month with this crap I Hate down here for ABSOLUTELY no reason ... Sad
Yes there is a reason. Living a year as a woman throws a bunch of stuff at you that some may not be able to handle and gives you time to really consider your decision. Money issues gave me two years to think about things and my mind set was much different at the end of those two years than it was at the start. I made the decision for the right reason and not the reason I would have at the start. I hope you are taking full advantage of the time and are living the life you will live after surgery - working and engaging in normal social activities so you to will make the decision for surgery for the right reasons.
I don't think that's the reason. It just social baggage from decades ago.
Having FFS is gong to have far more impact that SRS on how you cope socially, and she's already done that.
It was never about passing, it's about being able to adjust to society. If you can't be comfortable in society as a woman you should very carefully consider your decision to have surgery.
Quote from: Dena on April 06, 2016, 09:28:43 PM
It was never about passing, it's about being able to adjust to society. If you can't be comfortable in society as a woman you should very carefully consider your decision to have surgery.
I think that would apply far more to ffs than srs, and yet that's already done.
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 06, 2016, 09:33:41 PM
I think that would apply far more to ffs than srs, and yet that's already done.
Personally, I think it should apply to both but I don't set the standards. I had my adams apple reduced before going full time, a decision I was pretty sure I wouldn't regret. At the same time I had my nose corrected but I specified I wanted the nose to be able to work for both genders. The results were exactly that and I am still very happy with the results.
I am a little disturbed by how often people get FFS before any public exposure and when they already have a passable face. I tell people the truth about their face but yet they often decide to have FFS when they could get by without it. I could benefit from it but I have decide what I might gain from it wouldn't be worth it as I am comfortable in life and that's what's important.
sadly there's going to be a 6-12 month wait for a surgeon anyway
Oh yes Dena I am living my life so much . Im so happy about my body but im tired of this handicap Ive been hating for decades. Also I was full time before FFS , It wasnt about A passing issue but to be confortable with how I look And to get rid of complexes. I had the money for It And I m waited years before accepting the real me . Now accepted, I want to be this person 100% you know And not living any other minute as the men I was . For me its like wasting more time And I did that for way to long .
Im having sexual Life , I tried with A few mens but ..... How am I supposed to show him I am happy And enjoying It when im an incomplete woman.. I want to get eaten , penetrated And I REALLY dont want My butt involved ... This is so wrong to me. There is no way I can experience the woman sex Life this way... And this is last step I need to explore with transition Lol
I don't know what your circumstances are, but if you're paying yourself and depending on the surgeon you don't need to wait nearly so long.
I am going with dr. Brassard wich is covered by government .. Thats why
I'm guessing your in your twenties so that gives you another 70 years you don't have to wait.
I would also like to have ASAP. from very young, was hiding what is down there, while I did not know how the other gender looks. I also had to wait almost one year to start HRT with forced RLE. I try not to think about it too much right now. I just have a plan which I would like to achieve in several years. If it would be just one me I would perform GRS at the start and then HRT not to take any anti-androgens at all. I already accepted how the system works. Looking forward for the next 2-3 years :) .
I have been very outspoken about this subject ...its a bunch of bs and not required under wpath, for those in doubt please read it carefullu. I would only question those who are very young as this decision deprives them of having children....unless you have the finance to freeze ypur sperm. I never lived as a female and had my srs and it feel perfectly normal. Just the USA and some EU countries have this inane rule. If you have all the letters then it's easy to have it done overseas.
"Why"? Because cis gendered people can't believe we'd really want to have "that" operation, it boggles their mind and makes them cross their legs in wincing discomfort. They probably consider the one year wait their "Get Out of GRS Free Card" gift to us.
That said, I'm glad I waited over a year, it made me realise I didn't need to have the op to be a woman or to feel like one. Didn't need it but I still wanted it. Yes, what a pain the unwanted appendage has been to deal with since going full time but the wait, and living my life in the meantime, really helped confirm to me I was a happy woman regardless and that my genitals did not define my gender identity.
I never really felt that I wanted to go to the trouble of SRS until I had been basically full time for several months. Now I don't feel that I need it, which is good as I really can't see how I'll ever afford it, but I most definitely want it. I want it really, really badly!
Waiting a year is absolutely unnecessary to me, just twelve more months of longing.
Quote from: archlord on April 06, 2016, 10:59:13 PM
I am going with dr. Brassard wich is covered by government .. Thats why
Hi Archlord,
I thought Dr. Brassard had a long wait list anyway. I was under the impression that even if you paid for the operation with Dr. Brassard yourself you couldn't get it done any quicker? Do you live in Ontario and are going through CAMH for approval?
By the way, I'm also of the opinion that it's no ones business when you have the surgery. Quite frankly I think people who live in stealth should be able to have GRS. It's a private matter and your body.
Take care,
Paige :)
Can you answer this question. Supposed you are one of a number of board members who's surgery failed for some reason and are unable to have normal relations. Can you build a life where you can still be happy or would you regret ever taking this path. I answered the question before surgery and have had a life without sex and without regrets.
Hello, kindred spirit here. Well you don't really have to wait if you are paying the bill. But if you desire or need someone else to pay, then unfortunately you must play by their rules.
Your desire is remarkably similar to mine. I often felt alone and isolated in my views. Not surprisingly I underwent SRS ASAP, on my own dime and prior to other procedures. In my opinion SRS should perhaps come first then all the nice stuff later.
Doing so was an incredible experience as my womanhood started a short 10 weeks prior to surgery. Everything was so new (including peeing). It was a magical time for this new girl.
Now on SRS wait times: You can get it done right now if you are ready to go. You just need to find the right surgeon and bring cash.
So, if you have the means, then by all means do it! Good luck you will get there Kiddo! :P
Thank you,
Anne
EOM
As a happy participant in an Informed Consent HRT program, I prefer it being up to the individual, their circumstances, their desires. As those informed consent programs become more prevalent, it's possible SRS may follow suit in some areas.
The one year wait is an arbitrary restriction and is specifically a form of gatekeeping to care. Yes, it is helpful for some to have that in place, and comes from a mentality of "caring" ... but definitely not necessary and certainly not needed for everyone. In fact, for many, the wait can be tied to saving money, doctor/insurance availability, time to get electro, etc. rather than an arbitrary timeframe.
I don't think it's an issue of gatekeeping. Since, Canada is socialized country on socialized health care everyone has to wait even if you look like supermodel due to the long wait list and of course the surgery is free. It's just how the system works. If a patient couldn't wait they can absolutely seek surgery outside of the country and pay for it.
About a year and a half ago I had several email exchanges with a person who had surgery and now feels nobody should have it. From what I gather, surgery was obtained by spoofing the surgeon about RLE. Most of us need surgery but there are those who it will do much damage to surgical programs and RLE is the only way to filter them out. Failure to do so could result in something like the bathroom bills where it becomes near impossible for any of us to receive treatment. The name of the person I had the conversation with? Walt Heyer. Google that name and you will learn a story of caution.
Quote from: Dena on April 07, 2016, 08:28:36 AM
Can you answer this question. Supposed you are one of a number of board members who's surgery failed for some reason and are unable to have normal relations. Can you build a life where you can still be happy or would you regret ever taking this path. I answered the question before surgery and have had a life without sex and without regrets.
I don't think waiting an extra year is going to make it any easier to cope with that. People can cope or not, they will think or not, what difference will a year make except add to the stress. Its not like you'll suddenly get cured and no longer be trans.
Quote from: Dena on April 07, 2016, 09:49:05 AM
About a year and a half ago I had several email exchanges with a person who had surgery and now feels nobody should have it. From what I gather, surgery was obtained by spoofing the surgeon about RLE. Most of us need surgery but there are those who it will do much damage to surgical programs and RLE is the only way to filter them out. Failure to do so could result in something like the bathroom bills where it becomes near impossible for any of us to receive treatment. The name of the person I had the conversation with? Walt Heyer. Google that name and you will learn a story of caution.
Unless you're going to have someone follow you around for a year, all I get from that is you may as well lie, because it works. The interesting question is hows he got past a psych evaluation, but I don't suppose that's too difficult either. Psych's are only human, and I'm pretty sure I could like my way though one of those if I wanted (not that I need to). I'm quite sane though, and he doesn't appear to be.
I think both these points are based on worst case assumptions about what may happen and how people think. If everyone lived their lives like that we'd live in a police state to protect ourselves from what might happen.
Its not helpful to the majority of us, and actively harmful to a minority of us. Those kinds of policies would harm me in particular as I'm interested in SRS and to present male both before and afterwards.
I feel like it's kind of like the therapy requirement. When I first started the process, I was furious about all the stuff that seemed like gatekeeping to me. In reality, I absolutely needed that therapy. Without it I would not have been prepared for the transition. I didn't have the self esteem to cope.
Now that I'm full time, I'm realizing there are a lot of situations I hadn't expected and each one takes a bit of coping power to get over it. I was very reclusive prior to this, now I'm very outgoing. I get invited out to bars for happy hour and it still scares me to death to actually go. I hate sand, but I love swimming in the ocean. I haven't had to experience that as a woman yet. My spouse has family in the deep south and every time we go to visit, I'm just as nervous as the last time. I always find a way to find that 20 seconds of courage, but what if I couldn't? What if I had rushed through the process to SRS thinking that would make me indisputably a woman and take these fears away, and it didn't? At that point, there's really no going back.
Do I really want to have to wait a year? Not at all, but I think it's kind of a blessing in disguise. I have to wait almost a year on a waiting list just to get a consult. I added myself to the list about a month after I went full time. Like it or not, I'm waiting for about 1.5-2 years, not because of rules, but because of the long line of people before me.
I don't think anyone should have to wait. Cis people are allowed to make "mistakes" with their bodies; so should we. And I didn't learn anything about *having a vagina* from living as a woman; I learned a lot about living as a woman, and something about the very real dangers of doing so WITHOUT a vagina, but I didn't need a vagina to have male coworkers talk down to me or be told that my political column was better when my "brother" wrote it.
Essentially, the rest of the world assumed I had a vagina already; getting one installed was purely for my own peace of mind.
(Oh, and as a private pay at least, Brassard offered me a date only three months away...)
From https://www.susans.org/2015/08/03/rle-civil-rights-issue/ :
QuoteI came across no data that indicate better outcomes by forcing transgender people to wait before our bodies are made whole. In fact, the data I came across indicated exactly the opposite. Every study seemed to show that the existence or duration of RLE had no effect at all on the outcome. According to a study posted by NIH, "Compliance with minimum eligibility requirements for SRS ... was not associated with more favorable subjective outcomes."
RLE is a patronizing, paternalistic hurdle devised by cisgender doctors. That it persists despite being scientifically indefensible from observed results is a testament to how far transgender people have to go before the scientific community sees us as intelligent, mature human beings capable and not children they can order around as they please.
An advice to save some time with Brassard if you are from quebec is to take your appointment at least a month before the year mark. This way the CHUM will get to evaluate your paper sooner (it usualy take 30-60 days for them to peek at it anyway).
There is a LOT of cancelations so if your schedule let you you, just accept the new date everytimes they call you.
I got my srs about 2 months and a half after the year mark because of cancelations and earlier sent papers.
I must admit that this waiting time is a needless stress. T blockers are pretty harmful also, some scientists are proposing to do srs before even starting HRT to avoid the problems that t blockers bring.
Quote from: liz on April 07, 2016, 02:03:59 PM
T blockers are pretty harmful also, some scientists are proposing to do srs before even starting HRT to avoid the problems that t blockers bring.
I never heard that before. Where did it come from?
Two points come to mind.
Firstly in a world where trans patients can, and regularly do, successfully sue their doctors for compensation when they "change their minds" for whatever reason after surgery, you can hardly blame the doctors for wanting a "cooling off" period. Perhaps if there was some way to make patients sign some sort of cast iron waiver of the legal right to sue if they changed their mind then it might seem less risky...
Secondly I could turn the tables and ask how long it took you to make the decision to come forward for treatment. Anyone answering that they came forward at the age of 16 (which in the UK at least is the minimum age at which a patient can be treated without parental consent) I will grant has possibly got a point - however if that didnt happen then clearly there was some hesitating - and hesitation implies doubt... which raises the legitimate question what if the doubt later returns... which bring us nicely back to point one.
Now of course in under a year's time now :o I shall be fully medically qualified and hence possibly being the one asked to write the letters or wield that knife... Now I KNOW what its like to be trans, and from my experiences about 30 years ago I also know what it is like to have somebody delay your surgery, and yet... if you came to me asking me to operate on you without an RLE I would tell you politely but very firmly no way! Not because I am ignorant or cruel - but because I now recognise that much as I hated the gatekeepers they were right - and they made me think about what I was doing and WHY.
Trust me, in the years that follow surgery it wont all be a barrel of laughs - and when it isnt, THAT is when you'll be grateful that you waited out that hateful extra year - because the fact that you did, and the memory of how miserable that delay made you feel is the thing which will make you realise that however bad things may be in the future, pre-operatively it was worse - and therefore you will be sure you made the right choice.
Quote from: Rejennyrated on April 07, 2016, 02:58:58 PM
Now of course in under a year's time now :o I shall be fully medically qualified and hence possibly being the one asked to write the letters or wield that knife... Now I KNOW what its like to be trans, and from my experiences about 30 years ago I also know what it is like to have somebody delay your surgery, and yet... if you came to me asking me to operate on you without an RLE I would tell you politely but very firmly no way! Not because I am ignorant or cruel - but because I now recognise that much as I hated the gatekeepers they were right - and they made me think about what I was doing and WHY.
But you won't be qualified to make that decision since you're not a psych, and you also get to pass off legal responsibility on to that psych.
I'm curious your thoughts on non-binary people who want SRS?
Quote from: Paige on April 07, 2016, 08:18:56 AM
I thought Dr. Brassard had a long wait list anyway.
About five months from booking ...
*hugs*
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 07, 2016, 02:57:11 PM
I never heard that before. Where did it come from?
Some meds can have side effects ...
technically SRS seems the better solution ...
by the way there were children who were strongly dysphoric and got srs ...
*hugs*
Quote from: Jenna Marie on April 07, 2016, 11:21:34 AM
I don't think anyone should have to wait. Cis people are allowed to make "mistakes" with their bodies; so should we. And I didn't learn anything about *having a vagina* from living as a woman; I learned a lot about living as a woman, and something about the very real dangers of doing so WITHOUT a vagina, but I didn't need a vagina to have male coworkers talk down to me or be told that my political column was better when my "brother" wrote it.
Well said, Jenna!
Quote from: suzifrommd on April 07, 2016, 12:01:57 PM
RLE is a patronizing, paternalistic hurdle devised by cisgender doctors. That it persists despite being scientifically indefensible from observed results is a testament to how far transgender people have to go before the scientific community sees us as intelligent, mature human beings capable and not children they can order around as they please.
I agree completely. My transition is my business. It's hard enough as it is. There is nothing "real life" about RLE. Cis-women don't worry about getting clocked, or possibly being subjected to physical violence for anything from using the ladies room to simply existing in public. Cis-women don't have to walk around with a penis between their legs and deal with the dysphoria that causes. I could go on and on.
My girlfriends warn me about what it's like to get ignored, disrespected, talked-over, not getting credit for work accomplishments, passed over for promotions, etcetera. I get some of that already, and being near the end of my professional career, I don't care about the job-related stuff or other social shortcomings of being female. It's a small price to pay for the chance to transcend a lifetime of unhappiness.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: Laura_7 on April 07, 2016, 04:44:22 PM
Some meds can have side effects ...
technically SRS seems the better solution ...
by the way there were children who were strongly dysphoric and got srs ...
True enough, but I've never heard a scientists/doctors suggest SRS before HRT.
Funny how WPATH says you can get an orchi without RLE though. I wonder why the difference...
Actually that logic applies to any form of elective surgery. There's usually an expensive way to undo it if you regret it later, and every plastic surgeon protects themselves legally from "change of heart" patients a few months later.
To suggest that SRS is somehow different doesn't fit logically.
Again, there's huge value in being right about why we all transition... But arbitrary timelines and gate keeping aren't the answer.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: archlord on April 06, 2016, 10:35:08 PM
I want to get eaten , penetrated And I REALLY dont want My butt involved ...
Oh, I hear ya... ;)
Quote from: Dena on April 07, 2016, 08:28:36 AM
Can you answer this question. Supposed you are one of a number of board members who's surgery failed for some reason and are unable to have normal relations. Can you build a life where you can still be happy or would you regret ever taking this path. I answered the question before surgery and have had a life without sex and without regrets.
I'm not sure what you're asking. I already don't function as a male sexually. Are you asking if I would have SRS if my vagina were non-functional? No, probably not. I can be sexually dysfunctional right now, without the pain and expense. What I want out of SRS is to
fix that.
With kindness,
Terri
Edit: You know, under those conditions, I might have SRS regardless. I don't like having male genitalia. Even a non-functional vagina would be better.
After an initial psychiatric evaluation I was given OK to seek SRS prior to starting HRT. Still had to jump through the WPTH 'suggestions' including two letters but no RLE. That was negotiable based on time served as a man. No further prison time was deemed necessary. Was able to satisfy everyone's requirements in a much shorter period than 1 year.
I would say getting name and gender legally changed and starting genital electrolysis made an impression on all those involved. Did use the penetration without my butt involved line, it appeared to work!
Thank you,
Anne
EOM
Rejennyrated : I would not assume, at all, that "hesitation implies doubt." If anything, it might imply the stress, difficulty, and fear of going through the selfsame hurdles (set by cis people) that this thread is about.
I figured out that I needed to transition in June; I was seeing a therapist by October, on HRT by February, and would happily have had SRS and HRT from basically the day that I knew I was trans. Those delays were caused by having to jump through all the hoops. I never changed my mind, and I never hesitated about those things - what I *did* doubt, constantly, was whether I was "trans enough" by the rules set out by the gatekeepers. And again, nobody makes a cis woman undergo half the medical supervision or demands any of the proof we have to provide in order to get HRT; I can pretty much guarantee that if a cis man lost his penis, nobody would make him wait a year to be really sure he wasn't happier without it before phalloplasty. Do trans people make medical and/or life decisions they later regret? Sure. Do cis people? ...absolutely.
Imagine the outcry if we made people take tests, go to therapy, and wait a year before having kids! But that's at least as life-changing, albeit in a different way.
(And I, at least, am on a dose of HRT that is well within the range provided to cis women, so it's a direct comparison. My cis friend who had a hysterectomy at 35 left the hospital with a prescription - for a dose twice what mine is! - and did not have to go to therapy for three months and get a letter to prove she deserved it. Nor did anyone suggest that perhaps she doubted herself or her womanhood or had made a catastrophic mistake of some kind when she wondered if she'd rather stop taking it, either.)
Honestly a lot of the answers, deception of RLE and palpable anger in this topic scare me. We all have to play by the rules. They are set by WPATH and adopted by most countries. You don't have to agree with them, but they will remain anyway. Channel that anger somewhere constructive.
Jessica, I'd like to point out that the rules are not what they appear to be. I know of a number of surgeons who'll do SRS without RLE, and I believe there's a lot more. I think you still need the letters.
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 07, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
Honestly a lot of the answers, deception of RLE and palpable anger in this topic scare me. We all have to play by the rules. They are set by WPATH and adopted by most countries. You don't have to agree with them, but they will remain anyway. Channel that anger somewhere constructive.
Its not rules its guidelines.
There are some local regulations stateside in thailand, which only apply to foreigners.
There were young people who were severely dysphoric ... with all consequences.
Imagne the headlines if they had no way out.
They were accomodated.
Some guidelines may make sense but imo always remember its about people.
With the onset of the internet people have information and can compare.
So they can see where there are rules deemed necessary and where not.
People usually have an evaluation by one or two psychologists.
Is there more needed ?
People can discuss if it is ... or not.
*hugs*
Quote from: Jessica Merriman on April 07, 2016, 09:03:05 PM
Honestly a lot of the answers, deception of RLE and palpable anger in this topic scare me. We all have to play by the rules. They are set by WPATH and adopted by most countries. You don't have to agree with them, but they will remain anyway. Channel that anger somewhere constructive.
No. We don't have to play by the rules. We can have the rules changed. They were made by cisgender people who do not believe trans people have the decision making skills to figure out for themselves how long we should wait before SRS.
Personally, I believe that channeling my anger toward people who insist on imposing their will on me and trying to end the oppression IS constructive.
I know I'm in the minority on this subject , but for me personally it's good to wait a year. when I finally put everything together where the opportunity was there for me to do it I thought of things I never thought about. I realized in my particular case I needed a lot more planning than the instantaneous fulfilling of the need. Given my age I'm still in the strategy stage , but I realized there's a lot to process. I know my circumstances are somewhat different , but I have to consider my age , my physical disability , how I'm going to be able to care for myself until I heal enough because I'm alone. There are just a whole boat load of things I never considered through all those years of wanting it. To me a year is quite short and gives you enough time to plan and prepare for a smooth healing process. Also 1 year compared to the rest of your life is quite reasonable. This is just my own opinion which would seem to me reasonable for all that's involved in an operation that has a major impact on ones life.
Stephanie : You're actually a great example, because you *choose* to wait. :) The thing is, anybody could choose that. The issue is having it forced on us. (I'm sure you'd be unhappy if the rules said you had to wait 10 years, or 15...) I think you're smart, and you're right to make sure you're ready emotionally and prepared for the aftercare.
QuoteI know I'm in the minority on this subject , but for me personally it's good to wait a year.
Honestly, I think its likely somewhat rare that everyone has their life in a perfect enough order to jump right in and make every single change within a 3 month timeframe. :)
That being said though, I think it should be up to the patient to determine their priorities, and for the doctor to help make those priorities as safe as possible to accomplish. I like that you used the phrase "for me personally", to me, that's what this very individual journey is all about.
FFS can be just as impactful on a person as SRS .... but doesn't seem to have anywhere near the same restrictions. That's odd to me, but not surprising given there's likely a slightly different code of conduct for plastic surgeons vs internal medicine.
If someone is on HRT for a year before coming out, and then decide they want SRS .... forcing 1 year of RLE seems excessive. Finding practicioners who treat guidelines as guidelines is important.
And yes, the idea of being evaluated by multiple people to get "letters", proof, validation, permission. is a fairly harsh thing for people to go through and adds cost to an equation that doesn't really need to be there for everyone.
I had SRS back in 2005 and spent very little time living as a woman in society because I didn't feel comfortable being a woman with a penis. I told my psych I would have a much easier time living if I had a vagina and so, she wrote me a letter, followed by another one written by a psychiatrist who was shocked at how womanly my arms were LOL (passing well sometimes helps to get you a letter more quickly). It was that easy, spent barely any time living as a woman pre-op and had my SRS. No regrets whatsoever. :)
From Wikipedia. Bolding is mine.
"The Standards of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender Nonconforming People are non-binding protocols outlining the usual treatment for individuals who wish to undergo hormonal orsurgical transition to the other sex. Clinicians' decisions regarding patients' treatment are often influenced by this standard of care (SOC).
Prior to the advent of the first SOCs, there was no semblance of consensus on psychiatric, psychological, medical, and surgical requirements or procedures. Before the 1960s, few countries offered safe, legal medical options and many criminalized cross-gender behaviors or mandated unproven psychiatric treatments. In response to this problem, the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association (now known as the World Professional Association for Transgender Health) authored one of the earliest sets of clinical guidelines for the express purpose of ensuring "lasting personal comfort with the gendered self in order to maximize overall psychological well-being and self-fulfillment." These standards are still the most well-known; however, other sets of SOCs, protocols and guidelines do exist, especially outside the USA."
The WPATH is a self appointed group acting on behalf of the medical profession. ICATH ia also a self appointed group, they act on behalf of the patient. I know which approach I prefer.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: melissa_h on April 08, 2016, 10:03:32 AM
FFS can be just as impactful on a person as SRS .... but doesn't seem to have anywhere near the same restrictions. That's odd to me, but not surprising given there's likely a slightly different code of conduct for plastic surgeons vs internal medicine.
For me, FFS would have a massive and possibly devastating impact on my life, while SRS would have none (apart from in my head).
I don't understand why people regard SRS as having such an impact. You're trans, its not like its a big deal. You don't walk around naked, so its not like anyone can see. I think its just some kind of social taboo where there can be no rational thought.
I'm a bit confused with our discussion. I don't think the OP was told that she can't have the surgery and has to do a year RLE. The wait is based on her province wait list for GCS since it is a first come first served basis. However, everyone can go anywhere and get all the necessary surgery even if you just realized you were transexual yesterday. You will just be required to pay.
Unfortunately, in Ontario where I live I have to wait almost 2 years due to a long wait list of patients trying to go for socially funded GCS. It's just how the system works when you are using socialized health care.
Quote from: April_TO on April 08, 2016, 10:52:58 AM
I don't think the OP was told that she can't have the surgery and has to do a year RLE.
That was my understanding if she wants the op to be covered and this has nothing to do with wait list but instead has all to do with the 1 yr rule.
QuoteWhy 1 year ?
Was the original question.
I think the true answer is that covered, "elective" procedures are generally given a lower priority on staffing in a socialized setting.
That being said, some may invoke the one year concept as a "best practice" as a defense against offering the service more quickly. Not sure if it was actually confirmed that the 1 year concept was the reason for the delay.
Quote from: April_TO on April 08, 2016, 10:52:58 AM
I'm a bit confused with our discussion. I don't think the OP was told that she can't have the surgery and has to do a year RLE. The wait is based on her province wait list for GCS since it is a first come first served basis. However, everyone can go anywhere and get all the necessary surgery even if you just realized you were transexual yesterday. You will just be required to pay.
Unfortunately, in Ontario where I live I have to wait almost 2 years due to a long wait list of patients trying to go for socially funded GCS. It's just how the system works when you are using socialized health care.
Hi April_TO,
I live in Ontario as well. The province came out last fall I think and said they would open the funding approval process up to more clinics than just CAMH. I know Sherborne Health Clinic was talking about it. Have you heard if any of these other approval sites are up and running yet.
Thanks,
Paige :)
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 07, 2016, 03:30:07 PM
But you won't be qualified to make that decision since you're not a psych, and you also get to pass off legal responsibility on to that psych.
I'm curious your thoughts on non-binary people who want SRS?
It is actually becomming increasingly likely that I will be training in psych so while your argument holds true for about three years it will eventually likely become an incorrect assumption.
As for non binary people I don't see a problem. I don't call myself non binary because I just don't feel the need to analyse my identity to that extent. However others might easily assume that I was NB bcause I'm definitely a mixture of masculine and feminine traits, and I don't care a jot about "gender", the ONLY thing I ever cared about was that I wanted the physical bits to be female.
So I dont see any issue - to me its obvious that the only thing that matters in respect of SRS is what sex you percieved yourself to be physically and as far as that is concerned the RLE IS and always should be about presenting as that PHYSICAL sex - NOT about some airy fairy notions of "gender".
I know of lots of people who have successfully done their MTF RLE in the UK while always wearing tousers and "going drinking with the boys" - the only thing they did differently in that time was to physically feminise their bodily appearance - and none of them ever had an issue with the psychiatrists involved...
I think the problem may be that there are maybe still antiquated psychiatrists and therapists out there who are still insisting on the old fashioned "if you want to be a women you must always wear makeup skirts and take up flower arranging" concept of RLE which, in the circle that I move in, frankly went out with the Ark! I certainly never did any such thing and that was over 30 years ago... nor would I ever expect others to be asked to do so.
In short perhaps the problem is that we have a totally different conceptualisation of what an RLE involves.
Hi Paige,
I just had my assessment yesterday by my clinical therapist which will then be used as a secondary recommendation for GCS along with my primary health provider. She said it will then be submitted to OHIP for approval and recommendation for GCS which will take a few months. Followed by Brassards wait list lol.
The only improvement in the new process is that you can get evaluated faster. But the wait list isn't going to change and I am willing to wait patiently :)
Ask your gender therapist now for an assessment and your MD as well to get it started. You must be aware of it's risk and share why it is important for you. Basic questions that I know you can handle.
Hope this helps.
April
Quote from: Paige on April 08, 2016, 04:12:10 PM
Hi April_TO,
I live in Ontario as well. The province came out last fall I think and said they would open the funding approval process up to more clinics than just CAMH. I know Sherborne Health Clinic was talking about it. Have you heard if any of these other approval sites are up and running yet.
Thanks,
Paige :)
It's been a year since I got my surgery and the year wait is definitely needed. It gives you much needed time to live and adjust to being a woman, it gives time to build the much needed support system for recovery. I personally don't think one should consider surgery until they're comfortable living as a woman because it is so intense, most intense thing many of us will ever do. With all that said it is absolutely amazing to have gone through it and I am so grateful that I was given the opportunity to have it
Quote from: April_TO on April 09, 2016, 07:49:58 AM
Hope this helps.
April
It did. Thanks for the reply.
Paige :)
Quote from: Rejennyrated on April 09, 2016, 06:51:04 AM
It is actually becomming increasingly likely that I will be training in psych so while your argument holds true for about three years it will eventually likely become an incorrect assumption.
As for non binary people I don't see a problem. I don't call myself non binary because I just don't feel the need to analyse my identity to that extent. However others might easily assume that I was NB bcause I'm definitely a mixture of masculine and feminine traits, and I don't care a jot about "gender", the ONLY thing I ever cared about was that I wanted the physical bits to be female.
So I dont see any issue - to me its obvious that the only thing that matters in respect of SRS is what sex you percieved yourself to be physically and as far as that is concerned the RLE IS and always should be about presenting as that PHYSICAL sex - NOT about some airy fairy notions of "gender".
I know of lots of people who have successfully done their MTF RLE in the UK while always wearing tousers and "going drinking with the boys" - the only thing they did differently in that time was to physically feminise their bodily appearance - and none of them ever had an issue with the psychiatrists involved...
I think the problem may be that there are maybe still antiquated psychiatrists and therapists out there who are still insisting on the old fashioned "if you want to be a women you must always wear makeup skirts and take up flower arranging" concept of RLE which, in the circle that I move in, frankly went out with the Ark! I certainly never did any such thing and that was over 30 years ago... nor would I ever expect others to be asked to do so.
In short perhaps the problem is that we have a totally different conceptualisation of what an RLE involves.
I can't say I agree with your first post, but I definitely do with this one. In comparison the first one feels almost like your arguing a point without necessarily believing it. I expect I'm wrong and I don't understand you very well (I've read a lot of your other posts, but somehow never felt the need to say anything before).
Are you going to work with trans people? I'm sure you can make an enormous difference if you do.
Was this bit "we have a totally different conceptualisation of what an RLE involves" referring to me or "antiquated psychiatrists" in the previous paragraph? (its definitely not me).
I'm curious now what you think of my case. Just curious, it has no bearing on how I think or what I'll do. I want SRS but I don't want to socially transition before or afterwards - ie no RLE. Yet I am binary, and RLE would from a certain point of view mean presenting female. On the other hand I intend to live as male, so RLE would be doing that instead.
Assume for the sake of argument that I'm fully informed and sane. At this point in my life I've decided social transition is a last resort, and I'd only do it to avoid depression and/or suicide. Its not an ideal choice, more like the lesser of two evils. So I decided that if I get to the point where I can't deal with it any more, where I have to do something, then I'll have SRS because, well, why not. It might work, at least for a while.
I seem to be in a tiny minority, and I can't understand why. It seems a very logical approach to the problem, at least when you're older.
I'm in favor of informed consent for SRS, using the medical meaning of it.
As AnonyMs's post shows, the rules may sometimes be too rigid. Some may be perfectly fine with SRS without the need for social transitioning. Have the authorities accounted for the various type of people within the transgender community? Not quite. Rather, they see it one way and one way only (my way or the highway!). Black and white, no gray. This is wrong. But, people like you, AnonyMs, must share this with the authorities so they become more aware. I've come across others like you before whose goals are the same and some have had to follow the less travelled route to get to their goal. No regrets so far but who knows?!
Thus topic together with the preference for surgeons seems to bring on the very biased views we have and so much anger.
I can honestly say that those that have gone thru RLE ...for whatever the reason ..old rules, finances etc feel that this is what everyone has to go thru...' I have paid my dues and you all have to'.. ' i know its the best thing for you' then there is the other camp that feels it's a bunch of baloney and that we have the right to make our choices in life.
We already have to get 2 letters from therapists and that in itself is sufficient....no other surgeries submit individuals to such indignities.
please I emphasize the fact that this is just my opinion and I have absolutely no control in the enactment or enforcement of the rules, but I've been on this forum for 3 years and heard all the arguments for and against. I really can't understand why planning and making sure this decision is what is going to help you is such a bad idea, Again I mean no harm or controversy and this is totally my own personal opinion which has absolutely no bearing on anyone else. As an extreme example a person under only informed consent can walk into the hospital and set up a surgery date and within a week go under the knife and have their genitals rearranged.
As for having SRS while still living as male, one should not forget that some trans men (FtM) have decided to not go to SRS and live with a vagina while presenting as men in their everyday life.
So I don't see any reason why having SRS for a trans woman should imply she presents as female.
I'm sorry , again I mean no harm or disrespect nor have any intention for conflict , but you say yourself that the trans men present as the preferred gender with or with out surgery , so where is there a problem. Given the nature of this question I will not comment further due to the fact it's just my personal opinion and I mean no ill will.
Quote from: stephaniec on April 10, 2016, 03:45:51 AM
I'm sorry , again I mean no harm or disrespect nor have any intention for conflict , but you say yourself that the trans men present as the preferred gender with or with out surgery , so where is there a problem. Given the nature of this question I will not comment further due to the fact it's just my personal opinion and I mean no ill will.
Stephanie, I am just saying that I see no reason for forcing trans girls to present as female (for any length of time) before SRS.
Quote from: stephaniec on April 10, 2016, 03:05:56 AM
As an extreme example a person under only informed consent can walk into the hospital and set up a surgery date and within a week go under the knife and have their genitals rearranged.
You can do this for everything but your genitals. Whats the big hangup about genitals?
no further comment
This so reminds me of a conversation I had with a gay friend 30 years ago. He thought all bisexual men were really gay but too afraid to admit it. He thought there was no such thing as bi. At the time this struck as extremely ironic considering how many heterosexuals thought there was no such thing as gay. By the way, he had a Masters in psychology at the time.
So what am I getting at? GRS before or without transition may not seem or feel right for some of us but that doesn't mean it's necessarily not right for others. Perhaps we of all people should realize this.
Take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: Paige on April 10, 2016, 09:51:12 PM
GRS before or without transition may not seem or feel right for some of us but that doesn't mean it's necessarily not right for others. Perhaps we of all people should realize this.
Absolutely.
To each their own and to each, to assume the consequences of their actions. :)
Quote from: KayXo on April 11, 2016, 02:39:49 PM
To each their own and to each, to assume the consequences of their actions. :)
Sounds like being a responsible adult.