So when I first told my SO that I wanted to transition she seemed okay with it, the other day we where hanging out and she just broke down into tears and told me she didn't want me to. Which is understandable, I did what I could to address her concerns and ultimately decided to not transition. We also talked about things she would feel comfortable with me as far as dressing and mannerisms but she never really responded. Last night I asked her again and she basically told me she wouldn't feel comfortable with any of it as well as not being attracted to women.
Again this is all understandable from her point of view. However is has made me feel very trapped and now I must basically choose to live a fake life with the person I love or leave the person I love to live life who I am and who I'm supposed to be. Any thoughts, because I could really use the help...
I had to break up with my boyfriend when I came out, it was hard and a shame but he was strictly straight and wasn't attracted to men. I think it was for the best in the end, he has a girlfriend he loves very much now and I am working towards transitioning which makes me happy. it is ultimately up too you, but i think you should do what makes you happy.
Quote from: The Saint on May 07, 2016, 11:24:13 AM
However is has made me feel very trapped and now I must basically choose to live a fake life with the person I love or leave the person I love to live life who I am and who I'm supposed to be. Any thoughts, because I could really use the help...
Are you really going to be any good to her as someone who feels like you must put on an act to keep her?
You can't control whether she ultimately accepts you as you are. Putting on an act is an attempt to "fool" her into staying with you.
That is a soul-destroying way to live. Dozens of people on this site will tell you the same.
In the end, she is going to either accept you as you are or she will leave. You can't make her do one or the other. It is up to her. What is up to you is how much angst and stress you both will have in the meantime.
Well I'm really on the fence, I am more then willing to not transition but to don't be able to feel more comfortable in changing my mannerisms and dressing more feminine kinda takes me back. It seems most of you are older and married so I was just curious. Am I really in the wrong to expect to be loved regardless of my femininity?
Quote from: The Saint on May 07, 2016, 12:07:13 PM
Am I really in the wrong to expect to be loved regardless of my femininity?
No, not wrong, but it is entirely up to the person doing the loving, right?
I would look very very hard at how you will survive being trans and not transitioning as you get older. Will you resent your SO and will the resentment grow in time?
My life choices have me at my present state. I love my daughter, now 18, and my wife, soon to be ex. In some ways I wish I had chosen other choices and in some ways I am glad for the experiences I had. Perhaps if I chose another path I would have found happiness and avoided all the pain and suffering along the way.
When my husband came out to me that he's trans, I was upfront that I married a man, I like men, I will never find intimacy with a female body anything less than repulsive and will never do it. At the same time I told him to do what makes him happy. He's not transitioning, partly because of me, mostly because he's discovered he's actually gender fluid. He wears panties some (most) days. He has a drawer full of women's lingerie that he occasionally wears, along with several pairs of shoes. Sometimes he has polished nails (fingers & toes). He has a few outfits that he's never worn because he knows I'll tolerate it, but never accept it let alone allow him to touch me dressed like that. I'm about as straight, heterosexual, gender inflexible as they come. Is the situation perfect for either of us? No. Does it work for us? So far yes it does. Will that change in the future? Maybe. The point is, if you want to stay together, then both of you have to give up some things and learn to tolerate others. Truly, that's no different than how most relationships work anyway.
The sad reality is is that people will say the right thing because it is expected of them. You know the drill, doing what is expected. But, as the harsh reality of life with a trans SO slowly sinks in......
My wife was always accepting of gender issues, to a point. I had settled on being just a CD. I had no hope of being/doing anything more. When I dropped the T-Bomb she was far from thrilled. Today she is still not thrilled over a possible future. She is also a lot more accepting thanks to all the positive changes in my life, hence ours.
Just as I cannot cannot ask my wife to stay no matter what, she cannot ask me to stop. In fact, during many a WTF am I doing meltdowns she flat out said Do Not dare stop for me. Which in time became you know you cannot stop.
Her decision to stay, or go is her's alone. My decision to live as a male, do HRT, present as female when I can is mine. We both balance our personal needs against those of the US. A relationship is a partnership. Both have to be willing to put in the work for some net benefit. If one party sees no possible benefit, there is no relationship.
BTW - The realist in me says; The cat is out of the bag. If she was going to split, you going back to deep stuffing mode will only delay it. By doing that 'for her' some resentment is bound to come out.
I credit a lot of very hard, difficult, and gut wrenching discussions has helped my wife and I ride out the T-Bombing. Communication is key. Net positive changes help. I still hear "I did not marry a woman" "I like how men make me feel" "Rubber doesn't do it for me" etc. Just not as often
Here are a few resources that might help explain:
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,208438.msg1847638.html#msg1847638
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,208438.msg1847661.html#msg1847661
You might talk it through with an experienced gender therpist. They might help find out what you want.
There are also online therapists.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,187135.0.html
Its a step by step process. It might be possible to talk and say changes do not happen overnight.
hugs
Quote from: Rachel Lynn on May 07, 2016, 12:18:51 PM
I would look very very hard at how you will survive being trans and not transitioning as you get older. Will you resent your SO and will the resentment grow in time?
My life choices have me at my present state. I love my daughter, now 18, and my wife, soon to be ex. In some ways I wish I had chosen other choices and in some ways I am glad for the experiences I had. Perhaps if I chose another path I would have found happiness and avoided all the pain and suffering along the way.
I was about to write almost everything Rachel Lynn just wrote.
My wife was the one who during a tearful discussion brought resentment up. I had said, I had made it this far without any movement. Couldn't I just stick it out. She stopped and said, "You will come to resent me. We love each other but you have to do this. Even if it means we can't be together romantically anymore. You will always be my best friend". She was right. I would come to resent her.
I hope you find the right path(not always or ever the easy way).
With warmth,
Joanna
Thanks for all the insight! My SO has been fairly understanding with it all, its just a hard line of what makes me happy and how she feels about those things. After talking a bit more, its not so much she would be uncomfortable with me CDing but more the fact that she feels that she would feel less attractive. Aside from a fairly masculine face I have a very feminine body type. I do wear panties all the time its very comfortable as well as bras at home. In fact she was the who introduced me to them as well as yoga pants (worn as PJ's and never outside the bedroom) yet I still feel like I need more femininity in my life. If that makes any sense what so ever.
Sorry if the post seems clustered and what not, just lots of things going on in the old noodle at the moment.
I'm trying to figure this out right now. Is our lives together (25+ years) more important than moving forward. Also, is the 'traditional' path to transition really what I need or simply somehow the way it's supposed to be done. Would the pain I would feel losing her be worse than what I would feel staying pretty much where I am? I know what the latter feels like. I'm not sure I could handle the former.
Claire (née Dori)
Quote from: dori on May 07, 2016, 01:52:32 PM
I'm trying to figure this out right now. Is our lives together (25+ years) more important than moving forward. Also, is the 'traditional' path to transition really what I need or simply somehow the way it's supposed to be done. Would the pain I would feel losing her be worse than what I would feel staying pretty much where I am? I know what the latter feels like. I'm not sure I could handle the former.
Claire (née Dori)
Right?! For me I just can't wrap my head around it... I think I would rather be where I'm at not rather then move forward to transition. Yet at the same time the urge is very strong, I don't know how long I can keep her locked away...
Mine didn't pan out that way, but I did plan for it. It's not an easy decision to make either. How would you feel if she wasn't there in 30 years and you still hadn't done this? Would you be able to handle knowing that you wanted to transition, but chose not to for her and now you don't have her anymore? If she accepts you, it's all of you, not just the parts she's okay with seeing.
Quote from: Emileeeee on May 07, 2016, 05:48:15 PM
Mine didn't pan out that way, but I did plan for it. It's not an easy decision to make either. How would you feel if she wasn't there in 30 years and you still hadn't done this? Would you be able to handle knowing that you wanted to transition, but chose not to for her and now you don't have her anymore? If she accepts you, it's all of you, not just the parts she's okay with seeing.
So basically your saying either she loves me or doesn't love me regardless of who/what I am?
I'm not trying to be mean and say anything harmful, but what you wrote in your original post sounded like you were sacrificing your own happiness for hers. How many compromises will it take for her to be happy with you? I just feel like you both need to put your feelings on the table and it sounded like hers were the only ones being taken into account.
Quote from: Emileeeee on May 07, 2016, 06:23:31 PM
I'm not trying to be mean and say anything harmful, but what you wrote in your original post sounded like you were sacrificing your own happiness for hers. How many compromises will it take for her to be happy with you? I just feel like you both need to put your feelings on the table and it sounded like hers were the only ones being taken into account.
Ah okay, I see what you mean now. Honestly that is how I feel about it. As much as I want her to be happy, I just want to be happy too, and for the most part I am. I do have a few off days a week where I just really want/need to be the girl I know I am.
I cant tell the future, I all I know is I know I need to start transitioning, sooner rather then later... That being said I cant see myself getting GRS but who knows... I do however loath not having a female form, because I know what I am supposed to be. Simple as that. I know I can't change her stance on her personal sexuality and that's not what I want, but communicating doesn't seem to be working either.
I have even talked with my parents about all of this (as of last night) and they both agree they could care less what I do all that matters is what makes me happy in live. Which (I really never expected to get an answer like that) felt amazing to be honest. Yet I feel the urge to transition even more now because of it...
Life = Totally difficult...
Boy, I know where you are coming from. I've been married for over 21 years and my wife knew that I was a CD before we married. We went to a gender therapist then and worked it out, sort of. Like most of us, it comes and goes in cycles, we buy clothes, purge them, etc. The kids came along quickly and we now have 5 kids. I told her at the time we got married that I wasn't going any further, but in the last year I find I can't live with myself anymore. I started seeing a gender therapist not so regularly where I live now as it's expensive and she just confirms what I've always known, but was afraid to admit: That inside I am a woman. My wife went to the therapist with me and it didn't go well. My wife says that I said I'd never take it further and that I should stick to that. She says she doesn't want to be married to a woman. SO, the choice is that I lose everything except who I am or I stay miserable until I die. She seems fine with that. What's confusing to me is that in my conversations with the original gender therapist said my wife has her own gender issues and that she doesn't know if she wants to be like her mom or dad. My wife has admitted that she has some gender issue, but that she lives with it. She's somewhat masculine in mindset and gets along with men better than women, but in terms of expression, she's female and seems to like that or at least that what she goes for. I love this woman and in a perfect world, if I was a woman and she was a man, we both be happier as individuals and a couple, but she doesn't want to let go of something and to show her true self. For instance, once during sex she said she wished she had a penis (she will deny it now)...I don't get it...Is social enculturation that strong? She tells me to wait a few years and that society will be different then. I don't if she just expects me to go into remission again or is it something like she's waiting for her mom to pass (her mom is old) as her mom has a huge influence in terms of acceptance. If there's one negative about my wife, it's that she's always looking for validation, especially at work. She's very competitive. I think she's afraid her mom would disown her. SO...There's a lot to consider when you are involved with someone. Kids get involved and I'll tell you that many times, there's a good reason women marry and date transgender folk and it's not some blind chance thing. Even my wife admits that much. In the end, you'll have to make a decision and live with it. What I can tell you is that it gets worse with age in terms of being able to hide. At some point, the true self wants to come out. I know mine will, I just need the courage. You will find it too.
I think when it comes to anyone who knows without a doubt they are opposite their assigned gender, that choice of do I do what I am doing, which is misery, or leave the one(s) I love, which is also misery. For those who are not considering or going through transition, I will always, ALWAYS be one who preaches compromise, and lots of it. For those who are TS and needing transition, I think sadly the right choice is to be authentic. Without being so, in time, the relationship with your partner will degrade. They will likely always feel in the back of their mind, they are the cause of any unhappiness on your part. You will never be able to fully support your partner well through all of life as yours is always being tormented through not being who you really are.
While it isn't anywhere near the same, I think the concept is. My 1st marriage was a horrible one. I was very unhappy, but I had 2 kids. I took my vows seriously, and decided well, this is my life, make the best of it. I decided I would sacrifice all my happiness for the sake of my kids. Eventually, it got so bad I finally did divorce. Then afterword, no longer feeling tormented by a horrible marriage, I became a much better father.
Not much to offer to the conversation beyond suggesting take small steps. What seems outrageous to her now may become no big deal once she gets used to them.
My own wife had major issues on all fronts at first but gradually got used to how I act and dress as I evolved in front of her. Even she concedes that things she thought were the end of the world turned out to be no big deal.
That said when she has to think of me as a girl her brain breaks. Example she happily agreed today that she has no problem with my work knowing I'm trans. Great.
But as soon a I mentioned changing my name after that to Jerrica (Jerri/Gerry to the rest of the world) she snapped to angry. To me that change is just on paper as my daily life remains the same but major meltdown. That's ok though it's how she works will approach the topic again tomorrow and see how she feels. Name change not that important to me per se but will be needed later to prove living as female so sooner the better really.
My own wife and kids love how I've changed on hormones which is great so I can keep taking them. It helps reinforce my position on being female as I do need them to live. This also makes changes inevitable which is good too as the body changes to match my brain.
In the end as others say communication is key but as much as I love my wife I will not lie to her and that means I have to be me. For me, for her and for my kids as they deserve no less than me.
Quote from: Gendermutt on May 07, 2016, 07:29:34 PM
I think when it comes to anyone who knows without a doubt they are opposite their assigned gender, that choice of do I do what I am doing, which is misery, or leave the one(s) I love, which is also misery. For those who are not considering or going through transition, I will always, ALWAYS be one who preaches compromise, and lots of it. For those who are TS and needing transition, I think sadly the right choice is to be authentic. Without being so, in time, the relationship with your partner will degrade. They will likely always feel in the back of their mind, they are the cause of any unhappiness on your part. You will never be able to fully support your partner well through all of life as yours is always being tormented through not being who you really are.
Well its kind of hard to reach a compromise when I'm the only one willing to reach across the table.
Hi
I would agree with all posts and further up a lady said, what seems outrageous now, may become no big deal later on.
This could be true:) give her time to get used to the idea... It does take time to get ones head around it:)
Definitely do not give up on being who you truly are:)
Best wishes:) Marie
Significant other
Heterosexual woman
Quote from: Marienz on May 07, 2016, 08:31:16 PM
Hi
I would agree with all posts and further up a lady said, what seems outrageous now, may become no big deal later on.
This could be true:) give her time to get used to the idea... It does take time to get ones head around it:)
Definitely do not give up on being who you truly are:)
Best wishes:) Marie
Significant other
Heterosexual woman
So without giving up on either front because I want/need to be with my SO and transition, what would the next best step be? I know she wouldn't want to go to a therapist due to some deep seeded personal issues so going as a couple would be near impossible... What's the next step?
Quote from: The Saint on May 07, 2016, 08:36:06 PM
So without giving up on either front because I want/need to be with my SO and transition, what would the next best step be? I know she wouldn't want to go to a therapist due to some deep seeded personal issues so going as a couple would be near impossible... What's the next step?
Hi
I'm glad to hear that you need both and I admire your strength:)
Everyone's situation is different, but I would suggestion providing her assurance that you love her and wish to stay together 200%:) talk together slowly about what you both need. I would also suggestion to take things very slowly together and let her know, that each step you take, you will discuss with her so that you can take the journey together.
I have seen some great books as well, I think Jenny boylans wife write one, it may be called she is no longer my husband. Look that up:)
This can work together, with acceptance, love, care and support of each other. I know, that inside a person doesn't change whilst transitioning.... Only the outside does... You need to take her on that journey:)
These are my suggestions:)
I look forward to following your journey:)
Sorry, I missed a part... For the SO it can be hard, there are thoughts of, would I need to compete with my partner in female things, would people see me now as a lesbian etc... None of these things worry me now... But they did... Maybe discuss things like that to:) :)
Significant other
Heterosexual woman
Quote from: Marienz on May 07, 2016, 08:59:05 PM
I have seen some great books as well, I think Jenny boylans wife write one, it may be called she is no longer my husband. Look that up:)
I can't find that book. Are you sure that is the right title?
Quote from: The Saint on May 07, 2016, 10:14:19 PM
I can't find that book. Are you sure that is the right title?
Try "She's not there"
Quote from: Emileeeee on May 07, 2016, 10:52:25 PM
Try "She's not there"
That sounds like it:)
This one looks good as well, this one is on an nz website but you could find it anywhere in the world:)
http://www.fishpond.co.nz/Books/Trans-Bodies-Trans-Selves-Laura-Erickson-Schroth-Edited-by/9780199325351?gclid=CjwKEAjw0pa5BRCLmoKIx_HTh1wSJABk5F_4ZkXuOT4_OVLJ9tHeEMqr2IViqD36hDTtchgmrfQlyBoC5O_w_wcB
Helen Boyd wrote
"My Husband Betty" & "She's Not the Man I Married"-Wife of a trans person.
"She's Not There" is an autobiography from the trans perspective. Jennifer Finney Boylen
Mean to read them all. Only have "She's Not the Man I Married" so far. Many other really good books out there.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: The Saint on May 07, 2016, 08:36:06 PM
So without giving up on either front because I want/need to be with my SO and transition, what would the next best step be? I know she wouldn't want to go to a therapist due to some deep seeded personal issues so going as a couple would be near impossible... What's the next step?
Next step could be :
looking for an experienced gender therapist to help through this, and maybe help explain.
This is not only therapy like your wife may presume its also explaining facts and geting people used to it.
So one or two talks with her presence would not be the kind of therapy she is used to.
It can be a sensitive informational talk.
hugs
Quote from: Laura_7 on May 08, 2016, 09:21:10 AM
Next step could be :
looking for an experienced gender therapist to help through this, and maybe help explain.
This is not only therapy like your wife may presume its also explaining facts and geting people used to it.
So one or two talks with her presence would not be the kind of therapy she is used to.
It can be a sensitive informational talk.
hugs
Like I said before, this is something she would not do. Nor does she want me to transition.
I just thought about this... Since my SO introduced me to the idea of CDing at home, why would she be uncomfortable about me taking more steps towards transitioning or at the very least CDing outside of home?
YMMV
CD'ing at home is safe. It is controlled. It's kept safely within the confines of your 4 walls, as long as the 'Black Out" curtains are pulled.
Even CD'ing at home as limits. Don't know if you have any. Makeup? Perfume? To Bed? Sex? Panties all the time? Hair?
Then other 'Body' changes like shaving. Especially the chest. Earrings.
It can get complicated. Plenty of honest and open communication simplifies things a bit
Quote from: JoanneB on May 08, 2016, 09:21:42 PM
Even CD'ing at home as limits. Don't know if you have any. Makeup? Perfume? To Bed? Sex? Panties all the time? Hair?
I don't have makeup, I don't think I have the right facial structure for it... I have a thing of perfume but its more of a neutral like smell. Panties, yes I love them, also have matching bra's. I have short hair and can't do anything with it at the moment but I want longer hair anyways...
I don't know what you mean to bed?
You'd be surprised what makeup can do. There are lots of videos online. You just have to find the technique that works for you. You can create the illusion of a different bone structure with it. I don't know how, but I've seen videos of people doing it.
Quote from: Emileeeee on May 08, 2016, 10:08:05 PM
You'd be surprised what makeup can do. There are lots of videos online. You just have to find the technique that works for you. You can create the illusion of a different bone structure with it. I don't know how, but I've seen videos of people doing it.
I don't even know much about makeup, except eyeliner from when I was in highschool... I guess it wasn't really a "phase" like my family thought, lol. However, oddly enough my GF is an aesthetician so she might now... It's just asking her about it that might make her grimace at the thought of her "man" in makeup...
Well, I've never been married and haven't had a relationship in 40 years so take what I say with a shovel of salt. I think you have to be honest with yourself and to be as objective as possible and ask yourself honestly if the shoe was on the other foot what honestly would you expect.
Quote from: The Saint on May 08, 2016, 08:43:49 PM
I just thought about this... Since my SO introduced me to the idea of CDing at home, why would she be uncomfortable about me taking more steps towards transitioning or at the very least CDing outside of home?
Imo this is why a therapist could help. They know different facets of this and can help explain and understand.
Women like to talk. its simply possible she is afraid of social repercussions, what her friends might say, etc.
Her objecting to almost anything else is like componding the status quo.
Imo if she could see that there is suffering from your side and that there can be other solutions and a slow movement towards a change, without making her frightened, this would be a better solution.
hugs
Quote from: The Saint on May 08, 2016, 08:43:49 PM
I just thought about this... Since my SO introduced me to the idea of CDing at home, why would she be uncomfortable about me taking more steps towards transitioning or at the very least CDing outside of home?
There could be a lot of reasons. In one sense I had it easier with my SO in that on our first date I decided to wear lingerie - a black silk thong and similar camisole. This was 18 years ago and I'd gotten far enough along that I knew I'd rather be rejected (by a quite fetching woman) than present as purely male for sex -- rather be out with her from the start than bring it up later as a change.
That she was both accepting and enthusiastic did not extend to supportive of my desire to transition a couple of years later. Her response was surprisingly negative and self centered and started a cycle of complaining that she didn't want to see her role as being my 'support system'. Mind you the idea of being actually transexual was disturbing to me, however I was pretty clear in not bringing undue drama into the relationship and from that point forward I made it clear that I was quite capable of addressing my gender without 'support'. I also decided to pass on transition for the next 16 years and her negative response on the subject was a part of that decision.
So at the end of last year when I decided it was time to pursue HRT I didn't include her in the decision and did it mostly in 'stealth', doing my injections at work while vocalizing some feelings about gender and beginning to dress more femme.
I did this because I was pretty certain the response would be some self pity and rejected and what I needed at the time was to have a clear mind to see how HRT would affect me without piling the relationship discussion onto an already complex period (some career change ongoing problems with depression etc).
When I did get to telling her I needed to start HRT -- at the 5 week mark when I knew I was thrilled with the initial response -- the conversation was every bit as strained as I'd anticipated. She went immediately into 'what about me' mode even though I was clear in saying that what I needed was to see the effect, not sure I would continue hormones to the point of irreversible effects and not at all sure about proceeding to GRS.
We've since gotten to a better place but there was a very tense week there and the first month of HRT I felt badly that I couldn't share my feelings about positive changes with my best friend. The worst part of the discussion for me was that among her first responses was 'I feel I've been accommodating your being trans' which is at odds with our daily interaction.
Here's my take on my SO's reasons for being OK with CD (me 100% of the time with her for 18 years) and transition.
Like most people, a perceived threat results in a fright: fight or flight response and in her case brings fears of worst-case scenario to the fore
She doesn't identify as lesbian, which I get and this does come to some of the core of our relationship. In sex she clearly relates to me as male, touching my shoulders by preference where I'd prefer she pay attention to my breasts.
She hasn't said this but I interpret somewhat between the lines that she doesn't want to deal with social awkwardness, something I'm not enjoying either however as I sit fairly far into the asbergers area of the autism spectrum, I'm relatively innured to that as everyday reality.
I also read that as transphobia (in both of us), dealing with the social awkwardness of being non-binary is certainly one of the things that has kept me from starting transition earlier.
In the 3 months that have followed, I've felt some distancing from her and unsurprising discomfort with my reduced sex drive (which isn't my favorite part of HRT but it's more nuanced for me and the more rounded feeling I experience in sex now are quite welcome).
There are also things that have brought us together, sharing feelings about my increased skin sensitivity, sore breasts etc; experiencing some treatment that would be unusual for cis gender females as well as some typically female experiences of people's negativity towards feminine expression.
That's a very long response to your question, however I felt that some relationship context was possibly useful.
Thanks for all of the help ladies and gents! I'm still trying to figure out a way of doing what I need to need/want to do with small impacts on her. My SO isn't much for "talking things out" she very much likes to just take action. I feel like I'm still pretty stuck though.