This seems to be my observation, at least. I've read that the prevalence of TG is higher than the general population within computer scientists, software engineers and programmers. Is this something that others have observed?
Regardless of interests, career choices and aptitudes, the posts here on Susan's place seem to reflect very warm, thoughtful and intelligent membership, more so than other non-TG general interest forums I've read. Makes me happy and thankful to be a member.
+1 for the engineering. I am one :-)
I personally think the vast majority of the Trans community is very intelligent.
I don't have a bias ;-)
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University faculty in biomedical research--tally one more.
Mechanical Engineer, P.E.
I'm only making a guess here. You probably hear about trans women in the tech industry more often than cis women because cis women grow up being pushed away from that industry by today's society. Trans women aren't loaded down by that bias as much.
Quote from: Eevee on August 10, 2016, 06:25:01 PM
I'm only making a guess here. You probably hear about trans women in the tech industry more often than cis women because cis women grow up being pushed away from that industry by today's society. Trans women aren't loaded down by that bias as much.
I don't think it's a trans MTF vs CIS woman comparison that's fair.
I think this is probably a result of MTF having suppressed their feminine side growing up, so much so that we ended up in typically male dominated roles.
An interesting stat would the average IQ of MTF trans....
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Former computing student and web designer here. Also biology student and later student of the arts. I just wanna do everything ;D
BS Electrical Engineering, MBA Operations Research, and about half of a Masters in Divinity. I'm currently an Operations Research Analyst doing a lot of statistics.
My programming skills are pretty non existent though.
This is a topic that fascinates me.
Some of the older inventories that supposedly test gender on the spectrum from typically female to typically male operated on the obviously flawed assumption that maleness is defined by ability to do math, understand spacial concepts, visualize data and mathematical relationships, visualize geometric relationships, etc. Conversely, female was characterized by ability to remember musical themes, interpret emotional states of others, care about needs of others, write and handle verbal or language based reasoning and ideas. The questions are written in such a way to classify in an exclusive manner, that is you're either male or female, not allowed in the structure of the tests to be essentially strongly capable in aptitudes characteristic of both concurrently. Obviously an anachronism, not accurate, not relevant.
I, for one, have aptitude for all of these things, both the male and female by these criteria. I have male and female faculty colleagues and collaborators who similarly able to do high level mathematics and scientific research who would similarly score high in both maleness and femaleness using these criteria. The vast majority are surely cisgendered men and women. My own situation is that I play the typical externally male roles, behaviors and mannerisms. I am sure no one I work would suspect I identify as female internally. My suspicion is that the ambiguity in assignment of simple male vs. female gender identity increases to some degree with increasing intelligence and/or education.
This goes to underscore the point that gender is not a social construct or defined by a small set of superficial external characteristics.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on August 10, 2016, 06:17:13 PM
University faculty in biomedical research--tally one more.
Student in Biomedical Science +1 here sister
I read something once, and I can't remember the source, that at higher altitude levels the differences between the way men and women think converge together. My observations over the years seem to confirm this.
My own personal theory for TS is that both halves of the brain work equally and pass information for processing back and forth between them very quickly. That's what it feels like anyway.
math here, I do do a substantial amount of coding along the way.
Computer science here.
I doubt if there is anything about science and technology that makes people transgender. :) I think that transgender people are attracted to computers in particular and technology in general because machines don't judge.
Yet another reason I feel I've found some kindred spirits here...
PhD in chemistry. I was never that strong in math, though, and struggled through a year of calculus as an undergrad. Oddly, I have collected books on linear equations and multivariate calculus, and can't wait to tackle them when I have time. I just feel so... ungrounded when I have to consider solid state physics.
~Terri
Count me in. Even though I'm currently a farmer I've got a Masters degree in IT (not a lot of use on the farm:)
I have always thought a lot of us funneled much of our suppressed GD energy into being overachievers in many aspects of our lives ... I worked in hazardous waste remediation .. Mostly contaminated soil/groundwater cleanup and remediation of military explosive munitions (UXO)... Now I'm a housewife!!! :)
Degree in maths & MBA for me (and there was also a MtF transgender student in the same department while I was there).
I'm a Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineer.
But I think I have traits traditionally associated with both male and female roles.
I see myself as 'a bit of both'.
A long time ago, a TS friend of mine told me that LG&B people are, on average, a standard deviation higher in IQ than 'straight' cis-folk. And that trans people are in turn, a standard deviation higher in IQ than LG&B folk. I am not really sure if that's true, and I have long since forgotten what she said her source was.
But most of the M2F trans people I have met have worked in some technical field or other.
Quote from: V on August 11, 2016, 04:03:24 AM
I'm a Mechanical and Manufacturing Engineer.
But I think I have traits traditionally associated with both male and female roles.
I see myself as 'a bit of both'.
A long time ago, a TS friend of mine told me that LG&B people are, on average, a standard deviation higher in IQ than 'straight' cis-folk. And that trans people are in turn, a standard deviation higher in IQ than LG&B folk. I am not really sure if that's true, and I have long since forgotten what she said her source was.
But most of the M2F trans people I have met have worked in some technical field or other.
I don't think it's so much higher IQ because trans people are naturally more intelligent. I think it requires
1. introspection and awareness
and
2. the ability to develop coping strategies.
so people lacking 1 never really recognize it and just live miserable lives as cis people, never knowing why they're unhappy. As such they never get registered as trans.
and people lacking 2 might recognize they're trans, but they might end up putting themselves in a pine box before they transition or manage to find ways to cope.
It takes a special ability to see the angles of a problem and understand society to recognize that you don't fit. Some people recognize early and have to learn how to cope.
Some recognize later but need to go through a lot of soul searching first.
Software engineer and programmer here.
Singer and guitar player as well. This seems to also go with math and science people.
I'm an engineer but most of my work is actually marketing or managing the business. (with a healthy does of finance thrown in )
I think the "orderliness" of science, math and related fields could indeed be a refuge from the unknowns of dysphoria for many. Fascinating question.
Manufacturing Engineer and CNC programmer here.
Home Automation and computer programming as 2 of several hobbies.
Home decoration and Shopping are 2 more.
Former computer science student and web developer (still dabble in it, from time to time). Avionics technician, currently. Very heavy on diagnostics and troubleshooting. Also currently pursuing a BS in health science.
Interesting...
B.S. Physics
Worked in nuclear engineering for several years.
Worked as an instructor a few times in both nuclear engineering and specialized programming.
Long career as a software engineer, generally right on top of the hardware. ;)
Accumulated 19 patents along the way
Currently retired, although I've got an engineering lab in the house I still use. ;D
Nerds... We do come in all shapes and sizes... :laugh:
I have always thought cis and trans women make wonderful engineers. My father always said that I had " mechanical sympathy " I cared about the things he made. I can not have babies but I can love a beautifully machined part or a finely crafted machine lol ! Quite weird but true ;)
Paula, X.
Quote from: georgie on August 11, 2016, 05:52:22 AM
Singer and guitar player as well. This seems to also go with math and science people.
I'd noticed that too. When I used to lurk around the TG parts of Flickr, there was a surprising number of electric guitars in shot.
I also visited a model train show earlier this year and spotted 3 separate people (i.e. at the show singly and not in a group together) who I strongly suspected of being TG which is a far bigger concentration than you'd normally expect to see at any given location.
Are both of these perhaps to do with needing a creative outlet for surpressed feminine desires before making the change?
Turning back to the career thing, I think there's an element of us seeing what we want to see; all of the respondents to this thread have confirmed the hypothesis in the title and no one has replied saying that, pre-transition, they worked in a predominantly female area. Equally, however, those of us who only come to the full realisation of who we are at an older age may have subconsciously avoided the softer/more feminine careers when we started out.
Amanda
BS in Chemical Engineering, with 30+ years exp in the aerospace industry. I enjoyed the non-engineering aspects of my jobs VASTLY more than the technical part though.
L
BSEE and practicing design engineer. 35 years experience and now I'm pursuing a degree in Horticulture/Biology.
I would love to see a sub-forum started for technical/professional networking.
Quote from: aaajjj55 on August 12, 2016, 01:04:24 AMEqually, however, those of us who only come to the full realisation of who we are at an older age may have subconsciously avoided the softer/more feminine careers when we started out.
Quite a point there. I can distinctly remember before I got masculine-overconscious. I was far more interested in watching and helping my grandmother can vegetables and set aside fruit preserves and pickles; learning how to cook, etc. Far more interested in fact than my sister ever was. Choose between helping in the kitchen, or go hunt or fish or play ball? Skillet please.
I got nudged later towards overt masculine, and went along for the ride not wanting to upset anyone... College and immediate after, I'd apply or start overtly masculine paths, only to have the mentor/supervisor types quietly inform me, basically, "dude, I know you can pass any test we throw at you, but you're not right for this, and you'll be miserable, and may get folks killed...." (wow, my hands shaking just from typing that). Why I couldn't pickup on those clues when young, apparently it seemed obvious to everyone else.... I have no idea.
I am a Civil Engineer.
My career in the Army was set by my choice of college which was partly my wanting to go there and partly wanting to gain my parents' respect. That was probably a result of them telling me I was sick, twisted, and crazy when I was 13.
My choice of what I studied there was limited to only engineering disciplines so I picked the one that everyone thought was the hardest (EE). I'm not sure why I did that. There probably is some deep seated need to continually prove myself at work there though.
That need continued for a few years after college until I ran out of things to prove myself with. The one constant though has been a trans identity, before, during, and after.
Maybe I was subconsciously trying to chase it away. If so, that was an utter failure. LOL
Add another one, mechanical R&D and manufacturing development engineer, strong on the analytics and a bit of code stuff on the side. Plus a passion for mentoring the younger engineers entering the field.
My take, at least for myself, is that the scientific/engineering technical mind loves to look at and strive to turn the magical possibilities of "What if" into reality. They also have the drive and capability to not be stopped by all of the reasons that something can't be done. Why would they let a little thing like socialization and the world get in the way of something that they envision as desirable and needed in their lives? We flourish at finding ways to achieve the stuff that can't be done, experiencing fullness of life and working out effective transisioning is right down our alley.
Anne
Mechanical Engineer with an IT career...
Quote from: Anne Blake on August 12, 2016, 01:00:28 PM
My take, at least for myself, is that the scientific/engineering technical mind loves to look at and strive to turn the magical possibilities of "What if" into reality. They also have the drive and capability to not be stopped by all of the reasons that something can't be done. Why would they let a little thing like socialization and the world get in the way of something that they envision as desirable and needed in their lives? We flourish at finding ways to achieve the stuff that can't be done, experiencing fullness of life and working out effective transisioning is right down our alley.
Anne
What a great way of putting it! I can sure see myself in that description.
Amanda has an excellent idea. Perhaps we can spawn a child board for STEM discussion. As I am just a humble newborn on this site, I have no idea how this might be accomplished. Any ideas?
Hey, Degree in Mathematics and Computer Science. 30 years programmer.
maybe this also has to do with possible links between transsexualism and the autism spectrum... I mean may I suggest it could have a link with?
I think this thread carries a very high risk of confirmation bias :P
Regardless, I majored in physics, with minors in computer science and classical studies (ancient Greece and Rome)
Brain fart. I don't know why I wrote Amanda, meant to write Laurenb in my last post.
Quote from: georgie on August 11, 2016, 05:52:22 AM
Singer and guitar player as well. This seems to also go with math and science people.
Brian May, the guitarist for the band Queen got his astrophysics PhD in 2007! I still am in awe of his success, being both one of the world's best guitarists and having successfully obtained a PhD in astrophysics (my Bachelor's degree in physics was hard enough, I can't imagine how much harder a PhD must be).
Another PhD Chemist. There are also two other chemists where I work who are MtF.....
Already, given the number of chemists in the world, that is too many...
Something strange is going on..
Hugs
Jen
Quote from: Steph Eigen on August 12, 2016, 08:40:21 PM
Amanda has an excellent idea. Perhaps we can spawn a child board for STEM discussion. As I am just a humble newborn on this site, I have no idea how this might be accomplished. Any ideas?
I have the power to do that but not the authority. The decision to create a new board would be with Cindy or Susan.
I've had "The Knack" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60P1xG32Feo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60P1xG32Feo) for about as long as feeling I should be a girl. Today I think it is great how well I get paid to have fun :D
The prevalence of TG techie types has always fascinated me. I mostly concluded in some way, for me, it was an outgrowth of being TG. A search for a world that followed very clear cut rules. One that was ordered. One that when something wasn't "Right" from the spectacular failure mode. No "Grey" zone.
Part of being paid well to have fun is knowing there is a LOT of grey zone out there
Quote from: Eevee on August 10, 2016, 06:25:01 PM
You probably hear about trans women in the tech industry more often than cis women because cis women grow up being pushed away from that industry by today's society.
I suspect there's some truth to that, although it's not all the truth. Also, I've heard quite a bit more about cis women in STEM than trans ones.
Anyway, I guess I qualify too, although not completely: I've held post-doc faculty positions in both computer science and linguistics, before settling to the latter, and before that worked for quite a while in various programmer / sysadmin jobs (and also a brief stint as military officer).
Looking back, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't have gone for this level of interdisciplinary weirdness if I had been born cis, either way: as a cis boy I'd likely have ended up as a pure computer scientist, perhaps a little more on the engineering side of the field; as a cis girl I might have ended up more clearly as a linguist, possibly with a minor in either history or psychology. Being trans, for me, has meant a bit of rebellion against established roles.
Quote from: JoanneB on August 13, 2016, 07:59:50 AM
A search for a world that followed very clear cut rules. One that was ordered. One that when something wasn't "Right" from the spectacular failure mode. No "Grey" zone.
That's exactly why I love science. I love how it all fits together into neatly ordered pathways, and if it doesn't, something else is going on. I love that and how it all fits together
As a current college student it was really only my computer science class I noticed a few transwomen and just one cis woman in class full of males. I only encountered another transperson (which how many there are is a fair amount considering the size of my college) only a couple times in my biology classes.
My guess if there is any correlation it's because of socialization. A lot more ciswomen would go into STEM fields if they were treated the same way as men in regards to entering science related fields.
My CIS daughter went to college and majored in Math. So maybe it's in the genes?
Quote from: JoanneB on August 13, 2016, 07:59:50 AM
I've had "The Knack"...
Sis? Is that you? :o
I had "The Knack." And yes, I built a ham radio system from an old tube radio, TV set parts, and other junk I took apart. Age 12, I think.
I know the posters on this thread are a self-selected group, but damn, it's a little unnerving.
I was worked on a PhD in physical chemistry, changed fields and went to medical school, now do biomedical research and am faculty at a major research university. Like Dilbert, I've got the knack: I'm also a Ham Radio operator (Extra class) and have been building electronics since I was a child. As a derivative of this and my love for classical music and jazz, I build high end audio gear as well.
Many would consider these interests and activities "hypermasculine." I do not. Seems to me entirely independent of gender identification.
Hence, the thread.
Sounds familiar... ;)
I also have an Amateur Extra license, am active with a local radio group, and in retirement, have started collecting and restoring 1960s kit amateur radios. I'm currently working on a pair that were the object of my 13 year old nerdlust, but would have cost a fortune, far, far beyond my reach then. Now, they were junk in the corner of someone's garage. One looks and runs like new as of last week, the other will get there in the next 6 months unless life intervenes...
Working on this stuff keeps my hands busy and my mind off of... Other things.
Common theme, revisiting the classic stuff you wanted to have when a young nerd, now can affort to renovate and enjoy. I can't begin to tell you how many of these projects I've been through. Rebuilt numerous Heathkits, Drake C-lines, Collins and EAC R-390A's, Collins S-line gear, and several more recent Yaesu transceivers such as FT-101's and FT-102's. Now dabbling in SDR.
Quote from: Michelle_P on August 13, 2016, 12:33:28 PM
Sis? Is that you? :o
I had "The Knack." And yes, I built a ham radio system from an old tube radio, TV set parts, and other junk I took apart. Age 12, I think.
I know the posters on this thread are a self-selected group, but damn, it's a little unnerving.
I have my SB-102 sitting downstairs that I built after many years of dragging home TV sets on garbage day. In fact I never had to buy a TV until a few years ago when it came time to bite the bullet and get an LCD
Oh, dear. I had the thought of organizing a "Susan's Net", but it wouldn't last 5 minutes before it collected the usual jammers. And giving out our call signs would be downright dangerous. (Amateur call signs are easily mapped to names and addresses.)
It's nice to know that I'm not alone with this tech background and interests, though. This is a wonderful forum. Thanks, everyone! :-*
This thread is full of electrical and electronics nerds!
At least I'm flying the mechanical engineering flag here. Just spent a very nice day in my workshop fitting a DRO to my old lathe.
I have been in computers before the first PC came on line starting in 1969 at Yamaha. Cobol is a beatch. Later I learned Ramis, then SQL. Remember Prof's, basically the first email program, I learned code for that too. My first PC was a dual disk IBM with a rousing 64k of memory. I instigated an automated program that would allow the computer to discover substitution parts. We improved profit by 30%. Later I was a configuration analyst and I have done over 300 root cause investigations. The weird thing is I have no aptitude for math what so ever. I love to cook. I love to babysit. My wife is hoping hormones will make me want to clean the house. Ha ha. I am very nurturing by nature. Love to hug. take care of my babies. Heck I'm a walking, talking contradiction.
Quote from: Deborah on August 13, 2016, 11:59:11 AM
My CIS daughter went to college and majored in Math. So maybe it's in the genes?
I have a hard time with 2X2 but my Son does it all in his head and he is seldom wrong even advanced math. I'm so jealous. I know this is not in the genes as my dad was only capable of determining square footage. That's as advanced as he got.
I have tinkered with elecrical and electronic devices all my life. My first computer was a Heathkit H-11 that I built back in 1978. My current project is a control system for the dome of my astronomy observatory. I didn't like the one that I bought, so I cannibalized it to build one of my own design.
Incredible. I've also built multiple telescopes and done lots of night of astronomical observation starting in adolescence. Kindred spirits here.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on August 13, 2016, 09:56:58 PM
Incredible. I've also built multiple telescopes and done lots of night of astronomical observation starting in adolescence. Kindred spirits here.
Ha-ha! Yes, nerds-R-us. :) Here's my latest image:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1067.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu434%2Fkathylauren%2FLRGB-s2-p1-1000px-kathy-copyright_zpsvwvet6zh.jpg&hash=650ffa07db57c6e2e0058673707ac35cb3b6a104)
I'm not the odd duck here,for I hated biology,science,math,etc. I love history but was told it was a worthless degree,so I went to driving big rigs for a time..I never went to college for business but yet I'm good at it,ran.two pizza stores for a owner I worked for,and ran them better then he could. My main historical love is biblical history.
Such an interesting thread...degree in Medical Radiation Physics here.
Heather the Nerd :D
What a beautify image. What object is this--I don't recognize it.
Incredible how well this image captures both the luminous and dark nebulae. What hardware did you use?
Heather,
Welcome. Happy to have another TG nerd friend. Good company here.
Quote from: Steph Eigen on August 14, 2016, 11:04:19 AM
What a beautify image. What object is this--I don't recognize it.
Incredible how well this image captures both the luminous and dark nebulae. What hardware did you use?
Thanks, Steph!
It is the Iris Nebula, NGC7023. I used an 8" Newtonian with an Atik 383 camera. About 90 minutes total exposure time.
Check....... Masters in Computer Engineering and PhD in Computer Science......
Newbe to the site, I was an engineer for Boeing for 7 yrs, I have been on hormones for 6 months now, I am 65 yr old, and just came to the realization of my ->-bleeped-<- last year, been seeing a therapist for 6 months now and feel better than I have in years. Besides being an engineer, I have been a Registered Principal/Stock Broker in the securities business for 13 yrs. Engineering and Finance.
Did you go from Engineering to Finance?, other way?, mixed?
That's really pretty cool.
Quote from: SamanthaW on August 16, 2016, 08:14:07 AM
Newbe to the site, I was an engineer for Boeing for 7 yrs, I have been on hormones for 6 months now, I am 65 yr old, and just came to the realization of my ->-bleeped-<- last year, been seeing a therapist for 6 months now and feel better than I have in years. Besides being an engineer, I have been a Registered Principal/Stock Broker in the securities business for 13 yrs. Engineering and Finance.
Interrupting the thread for just a moment to welcome SamanthaW to the site.
I am an audio engineer and designer for theatre. I came to my realization last year at 50. The therapy and now HRT has helped so much. I hope you find what you are looking for here.
I also want to share some links with you. They are mostly welcome information and the rules that govern the site. If you have not had a chance to look through them, please take a moment:
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) |
Once again, welcome to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.
With warmth,
Joanna
Quote from: Steph Eigen on August 13, 2016, 09:56:58 PM
Incredible. I've also built multiple telescopes and done lots of night of astronomical observation starting in adolescence. Kindred spirits here.
[/quote]
Quote from: KathyLauren on August 14, 2016, 07:06:15 AM
Ha-ha! Yes, nerds-R-us. :) Here's my latest image:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1067.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fu434%2Fkathylauren%2FLRGB-s2-p1-1000px-kathy-copyright_zpsvwvet6zh.jpg&hash=650ffa07db57c6e2e0058673707ac35cb3b6a104)
I'm another one! Nice image of the Iris nebula! I was in electronics repair, own an FCC commercial radiotelephone license, and I am another astro-imager with an 18" and 10" telescopes, both F/4.5 with an SBIG ST-2000XM ccd camera. I am also an officer in my astronomy club.
The Elephant Trunk Nebula:
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/5/4058/5143702845_acd7d3d2a6_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/8QwPDP)
Joelene
Another spectacular image, Joelene. Sounds like gender has not been an issue in your involvement in your astronomy club.
-Steph
Just to repeat an earlier theme, many of us on this thread are middle aged recognizing TG issues in the second half of life. Tough at any age but I'm finding this path a difficult one to navigate, trying hard to find my way. This thread has been a very enjoyable interlude from angst over gender issues but more importantly, I feel I've found reassurance that I am not alone or atypical in my experience and struggles.
If only figuring out a path through these gender issues were as tractable as the many mathematical, engineering or scientific problems many of us have faced in our work !
Thanks to all for your warmth and understanding.
-Steph
I was a computer systems analyst/programmer for 20 years. Then a paramedic for 15. Now going back to school for programming.