I sit back and assess my situation. I have the most amazing family. A wife that treats me better then one can ask for and is my best friend. I have the most beautiful and well behaved kids. I have reached the peak of my profession. I have all the toys and brand new house. Quiet literally the perfect life. That's no sugar coating that's fact. But of course like I'm sure we have all heard a million times before if I continue my transition I guarantee I will blow all this up and will be left with almost nothing. So my question is how is this even an option. Every step I make is closer to ending everything. I know every negative result of my transitioning yet I can't stop? Tops two months before it all comes crashing down and I'll be left with the ashes of the burning wreck I will have made. Logically the choice is to stop yet I can't. Am I crazy? How is continuing even a thing?
Yeah, that's the rub, right? How on earth could anybody ever want to risk a lifetime of investments in people, relationships, family, profession, possessions, and more, just to be the 'other' gender, or 'another' gender..
And yet, it happens a lot. A whole lot..
Why? Well, deep inside yourself, I think you know why, right?
Because, as sweet as all those things may be, they are not enough to satisfy the urge to be authentic...
So, we risk it. We eventually gather the courage, and we cannot help ourselves, we risk it all...
Yup this is the thread. I'm in the same boat. I can list lots of reasons I shouldn't transition, with wife and kids at the top but I can only think of one reason to do it. It will stop the constant nagging in my brain that tells me this isn't right.
My therapist for some time has been telling me that the only relief will be a complete transition but I look at all the possible repercussions and it just kills me.
If you figure it out, please let me know. I've been fighting with this for a long time and quite frankly the only thing I've determine is that I'm very tired.
Take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: Paige on January 16, 2017, 10:41:02 PM
I've been fighting with this for a long time and quite frankly the only thing I've determine is that I'm very tired.
Take care,
Paige :)
If it helps, let me say something here: I lost everything, including that tireless tiredness from constantly pounding that damn square peg into that damn round hole.
That broken glass and jagged metal feeling inside my brain left me as soon as I was on estrogen.
Yes, I lost everything, and I had the 'justification' of having been a mis-gendered XX female on my side. It didn't matter, the reason we lose everything is NOT about being trans, nor intersex, it is because we lose that which just does not fit into our real truth once we are as we should be.
Was all the loss worth the peace of mind I gained?
Yes.
Do I wish things could have been easier, less costly, less painful?
Oh, my, yesss...
Would I do it all over again, knowing what I know now?
I would do it faster, with no hesitation, and with even more conviction, my goodness, YES!
Of course, this is just
me talking, we all have different lives, and experiences, perspectives, and priorities.
Losing it all saved me having to discard a lot of things manually later down the road. I now see the purge imposed on me as a blessing in disguise. I am now free to be me without hindrance.
Be glad we live in the 21st Century. We have options, we have hope, we have each other.
Good luck, and godspeed!
MissyG
I know. It's tough. The privileges of going along and getting along with social norms are tempting and multitudinous. I was thinking just today how easy it would be just to go back to passing as "just another normal guy." How much easier my life would be. How I could just close my eyes, go back to sleep and bathe is the comfortable waters of Lethe. But at the same time I know that this will NOT just go away. Most days are better than others but the things we go thru. The struggles we have to endure. It's hard.
But I'm at the point now where I just can't not know what I know. Denial is no longer an option for me.
Quote from: MissGendered on January 16, 2017, 11:07:47 PM
Would I do it all over again, knowing what I know now?
I would do it faster, with no hesitation, and with even more conviction, my goodness, YES!
I agree with this statement 100%. You never know what you will lose, but you also do not know what you will gain until you walk through the door.
-Sarah
I think I already mentioned a few times that my friends often compared me to Spock because I was so emotionless and logical to them. As an engineer I have to be able to use logic and I use(d) it many times to push my feelings aside and just concentrate on work and getting better at what I do.
And while I do enjoy my work and it can give me great satisfaction when I crack a problem, something is still missing to be completely happy.
I used my great powers of logic to deduct that if sometimes I almost tear up when somebody calls me sir, it might mean that I do not feel comfortable with it.
And following that logic, if you are not feeling comfortable in your own skin and you have to play a part to meet expectations, you will be slowly drained of any happiness life can bring you. That will not be good for you, or your family.
Don't be led astray by the gender binary. There is plenty of middle ground between the genders. The list of things you can do to reduce the dysphoria, yet remain outwardly male is much too long to post here.
I've spent decades pretending to be male. I don't want to spend the rest of my life pretending to be female.
What nature's done to us isn't logical. It's accidental. Neither is what society thinks entirely logical.
The solution isn't necessarily clear cut either.
To my mind there's no point in living and being self aware if you aren't going to live the way you want to. It's the same sort of thing.
10 years ago, same thing for me.
I was VP of a large investment company, six figure income, retirement plan, wife, daughter, big house and a cottage. But was I happy? No, I was suffering inside, but didn't know why.
One day it all came to a head over a silly argument with my ex. I sort of half joked one day I'll leave. She dared me, I put the keys on the counter that second and walked out.
Six months later, following therapy, I discovered who I was and what I needed to do.
Coming out to my ex was hard. The divorce, well, I gave her the house, my retirement plan....everything so I could walk away without needing to make child or spousal support. She took the deal. I quit my job as well as being trans in a global investment firm would be tough for me to transition in.
10 years later, my life is rebuilt. I have another house, remarried, and loving life.
I haven't seen my daughter since 2008, and miss her dearly. My ex doesn't want to expose me to her...but I hold out hope one day I'll see her.
I had to do this, as hard as it was for my sanity.
I have no regrets.
I can only speak for myself, but it is not logic that drives me - it's necessity. I risked my marriage by coming out to my wife, but I know now that it was really the only way to save it. I was devolving into depression by not acknowledging my need to transition. I told my wife that I was willing to ignore my need to transition to prevent the upheaval in our lives. She knew that that wasn't an option - a relationship that would perpetuate a lie. I've been lucky beyond words for her support and can only imagine the gutted feeling that one must feel when that support isn't forthcoming. As it is, I'm torpedoing the last five years of my career instead of enduring transitioning in a trans-toxic workplace. I draw the line at putting up with that. Everyone has their limits, and that would be beyond mine. Is it logical, no. Is it necessary, yes. And, finally, I've come to realize it.
Nina the thought of you losing your daughter actually made me tear up. That to me is the ultimate sacrifice. Stuff I know can be replaced but my kids are everything to me.
Kristinagl,
I can only add my personal experience for you. Like you, life, family, job, and relationships have prevented me from a full transition. My kids, and grandkids are my life and to hurt them in anyway would be unbearable, more so than enduring and living as I do. I came out to myself and accepted myself as trans almost three years ago, two years ago I came out to my wife with the two of us almost separating because of it. We managed to put it behind us with the subject not being discussed but was always in the background. Ten months ago with the dysphoria increasing I finally seen a therapist and my doctor. The therapist confirmed what I already knew, that yes indeed I was trans, the doctor not so much but that is a story for another time. Proceeding forward I was accidentally outed by a phone call from an unknown source, and there it was again in front of my wife. At this time I knew it was not going to go away and needed to be addressed and answered. I can thankfully say that we are still together. The fact that I had taken the step of seeing a therapist about it was helpful to her, the fact that I was in the process of seeing another therapist because of the problem with my original doctor was even more beneficial to our relationship. She has now fully accepted the fact that I am trans and was supportive of my starting low dosage HRT. I am now in my 5th month of HRT and it has been a welcome change in my mental and physical well being. My promise to her was that I would not fully transition but continue to present as everyone has always known me. My initial worries were that once on HRT I would want to completely transition, there are some moments on occasion when I wonder what it would be like but then reality and logic take over and I can live with that. Some of the things that help is wearing women's clothing that does not out me, jeans, slacks, tops, etc. The small physical changes that are occurring are also helpful in aligning body and mind. I only offer you these thoughts in some way of hopefully showing you a possible way of being able to give yourself an acceptance of who you are and maintain what you have. Take care
Quote from: Kristinagl on January 17, 2017, 10:17:55 AM
Nina the thought of you losing your daughter actually made me tear up. That to me is the ultimate sacrifice. Stuff I know can be replaced but my kids are everything to me.
Thank you Kristina.
The hardest part is not knowing what my ex has told my daughter. We adopted her from China in 2003, so she was quite young whe the poop hit the fan. Often I think I was selfish for transitioning, but is it not better to live your life without guilt?
I pray often hoping one day I'll see her. For now, I'm comforted by the memories and know one day I'll see her.
I so appreciate the thoughtful responses here and can only echo that sense of "I would do it faster, with no hesitation, and with even more conviction, my goodness, YES!"
I also point out that we cannot know the future with absolute certainty and many people may surprise you with how accepting and supportive they can be. My fears were magnified in isolation and I was also sure i would lose everything and probably have to move away.
My story took a 180 degree turn as I found significant support, regained my life and (some :) sanity and stayed right here. Those folks who are repulsed and rejecting often do us a favor by revealing their true selves as well.
Illogical yes, necessary for you, your call!
Kristina, I am exactly at the same point as you are now, questioning everything in my life and the price to pay (surely, thinking the worst case scenario), and even planning to start over in case I decide to move along with the transition and as soon as I drop the G-bomb as I call it :)
But then again, I think about everything I will leave behind... specially my amazing wife, and I know that even if I transition, doing it alone without her would not make any sense as well... so here is the dilemma... does it sound familiar to you? :)
I agree with Denni that searching a therapist will at least show anyone that comes to know it that it is not something futile and not something coming from an ill mind. Maybe eventually you start working with your therapist in the best possible way of outing it to the people you need in the less damaging way possible, if there ever is.
Today I sent an email to my potential therapist in the local LGBT centre to kick off the discussion. I will finally be able to discuss this topic with someone after 35 years. This alone, if giving me a lot of relief and I look forward to better times.
I really wish that you (and me) find a good path and retain as much as possible of what it dear.
In many ways the decision to transition is not logical. As you said, you will very likely lose everything. And if not everything, you will certainly lose some things that absolutely cannot be replaced (such as your relationship with family).
While it may not be a rational decision, hold on to those parts of your mind as much as you can. For if and when you decide to begin your change, you will need as much logic and rational thinking as you can muster to execute a smooth and successful transition.
Ty for your responses. I wasn't expecting answers just insite as I was venting in a bad place last night. I know I'm fully going through with my transition. Deserve to be happy and anybody that stops me doesn't want what is physically best for me and imo it's unfair to ask someone not to and have them suffer for the rest of there life. I know my wife will support my transition but not want to remain married. And I think that's fair. She never asked for this life and I can't hold that against her. I'm sure my kids will be supporting. Their kids and kids are generally awesome like that. As for work and financially speaking that I have no choice but to blow that up. But what ever. But honestly if it all goes side ways at least I tried and all you can do is pick your self up and make the best out of the situation
I once heard, "Prepare to lose everything. If you can bear that, you are ready to transition."
While I understood the message, I was clueless as to how that might turn out. I reasoned that those who REALLY knew me would eventually stand by me. I reasoned the people who appeared to stand by me at work would continue to do so. I reasoned that I had worked hard to establish a stellar reputation with family and friends and that would mean more than my physical presence. I reasoned that after 23 years of being a good husband and a better father my family would never abandon me.
I was wrong on all accounts.
What I learned from this is to listen to your inner soul. If you can't pull the trigger it's because deep down you know the gun will be aimed at you. If you think things may go south, it's because they probably will.
No one knows our life better than we do. Going online and asking for advice that flies in the face of what our gut instinct tells us provides nothing valuable. It's like searching the Internet to find something that proves us right. It doesn't mean we are right, it only means there is someone who agrees with us.
You know what the logical choice is. No one here can tell you what that is. Follow your heart. Listen to your gut. Then decide if you're really ready to transition.
I've heard that. Heck, I was PROMISED that by my dear ex-wife.
I had to be myself, after all this time.
I thought that anyone who didn't stand by me through this wasn't that great a friend. I thought that, at the end of it all, I might make new friends, friends who knew only the real me, friends of ME, not my male persona.
I was right.
I lost many friends. I kept a few. I lost family. I found family. And, most important, I have made new friends, as myself! People who like me as ME, not some false front.
We have to let go of our old selves, the protective shell of identity that we hid behind. When we lose that shell, we lose all that is attached to it. But, we are now free, open and ourselves, and can make new attachments.
It is worth it.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Question?
Stop, Go Forward, Tread Water?
I can tell you from personal experience, the "Go Forward" option can and will drive you crazy in this situation. Do I explode my life for xx% more happiness while standing a damn good chance of loosing xx+many more % of what I need in my life?
What do I need vs merely want?
In a perfect world I would "Go Forward". Heck! No fears of loosing my job, my career, I can't believe I get paid to have fun. No risk of loosing my BFF, Soul-Mate, Reality Therapist, my wife. No risk of loosing any portion of the other aspects that all go into making me Me.
Reality Sucks.
For now... Since most days it's "I want" and thank God not "Need" to transition, trying to think of myself as Non-Binary helps. If that delicate balance changes to most days I feel I "Need" to.... Rest assured I will. Just as I knew I needed to all the other things to get me to this point of confusion to survive. To wake up on the sunny side of the grass. I hold and to have Joy in my life
Quote from: Kristinagl on January 16, 2017, 09:51:44 PM
Tops two months before it all comes crashing down and I'll be left with the ashes of the burning wreck I will have made. Logically the choice is to stop yet I can't. Am I crazy? How is continuing even a thing?
I ended up at that point, or close to it, by stubbornly refusing to transition. Clinically depressed and unable to work, not very nice to be around, and steadily getting worse. I began to understand how people could kill themselves, and how am I supposed to look after my family if I do that?
My therapist gave me some good advice, which was that it can be better for everyone if you transition. Not ideal, I was out of ideal options, but less damage that way.
I've still not socially transitioned. I've been pursuing the medical side only, and that's been keeping me sane so far. Not sure its going to last much longer, but I've got some good years out of it.
I should add that I don't think its a very good approach.
Kristina, FWIW I went through the same inner dialog for years. I told myself that I'll just enjoy the good times, have some fun expressing my inner self when I'm able and endure the bouts of depression, anxiety and related anger when they crept in. It was a workable balance for awhile. However, slowly the time I needed to express my true self expanded until it was never enough. All the time I couldn't be me was consumed with bouts of depression and anger that started to overtake my life....so debilitating that I occasionally didn't even want to be the real me when I was able, I just wanted to sit on the couch, drink and hate life. This impacted my relationships with my wife and son. I turned into a shell of a person that drifted through life with a constant grumpy demeanor that wasn't any fun to be around. I was VERY conscious of exactly what it was that was eating me from the inside....until one day, not to long ago, I just knew what HAD to happen. There was no "choice" anymore, and my wife (who has known since
we dated about the inner me) also saw the difference. The point is, like some have said, you will probably just know it's time. Where are you in this journey of discovery? Does your wife know anything about your inner self?
Also, there's nothing to say that your wife, family and employer won't be supportive. Yes, there are some people that lose everything, but there's nothing in the transition rule book to say that has to always be the case. Since I told my wife what needed to happen, we are at the best place in our 25 years of knowing one another ....she sees the huge change in me and realizes I'm so much happier being on this path than the alternative.
Here is the one the question my ex asked me when I told her....you may get this:
If you knew you were trans, why did we get married?
You're not crazy.
You're doing what you know you need to do.
The doom, gloom, pain and stress is not the end of your world - it's the birth of a new one.
Quote from: Nina_Ottawa on January 18, 2017, 04:32:32 AM
Here is the one the question my ex asked me when I told her....you may get this:
If you knew you were trans, why did we get married?
I heard that early on along with can't you just take testosterone and make it go away again? That was part of the bargaining stage of my wife's greif over the loss of what she thought our life was. She is now very supportive while we still don't know where our relationship will go.
Logic is what kept me trapped and miserable for so long. For me once I realized there was an option in transition I no longer had a choice to make. I know the other path would end badly either by my action or my neglect of myself. There is no easy road for us I'm sorry to say. Either road is frought with emotional dangers.
Quote from: vicki_sixx on January 18, 2017, 08:51:04 AM
You're not crazy.
You're doing what you know you need to do.
The doom, gloom, pain and stress is not the end of your world - it's the birth of a new one.
Wow that's an awesome way to think of it. If I can just keep that in my mind!
Quote from: Nina_Ottawa on January 18, 2017, 04:32:32 AM
Here is the one the question my ex asked me when I told her....you may get this:
If you knew you were trans, why did we get married?
Hi Nina,
I guess the quick answer would be, why do you think transgender people don't want love and aren't able to love?
The long answer is it's much more complicated than that simple question. I'm almost 55 now, I've been with my wife 30 years. Back then I thought I could get over this. Society certainly wasn't accepting. Most believed it was a perversion or mental illness. I had a psychiatrist basically kick me out her office because she was disgusted.
So what do you do in that situation? You try and cope. You lead the life that everyone thinks you should lead. It wasn't that I wasn't attracted to my wife. I definitely love her and our children.
By the way, my wife knew almost from the start of our relationship. At least she knew as much as people understood in the late 80s. Her knowing hasn't really made it any easier. She isn't at all interested in me transitioning.
At the moment I've been on low dose E for 5 months.
The struggle continues.
Take care,
Paige :)
OP, you fear losing wealth and status? Try doing this without those. The only logic is what you decide you want and how you go about getting it. When I read your post I want to retitle it to "why can't i just make the materialistic choice?"
Quote from: Paige on January 18, 2017, 09:56:02 AM
Hi Nina,
I guess the quick answer would be, why do you think transgender people don't want love and aren't able to love?
The long answer is it's much more complicated than that simple question. I'm almost 55 now, I've been with my wife 30 years. Back then I thought I could get over this. Society certainly wasn't accepting. Most believed it was a perversion or mental illness. I had a psychiatrist basically kick me out her office because she was disgusted.
So what do you do in that situation? You try and cope. You lead the life that everyone thinks you should lead. It wasn't that I wasn't attracted to my wife. I definitely love her and our children.
By the way, my wife knew almost from the start of our relationship. At least she knew as much as people understood in the late 80s. Her knowing hasn't really made it any easier. She isn't at all interested in me transitioning.
At the moment I've been on low dose E for 5 months.
The struggle continues.
Take care,
Paige :)
I doubt I would have stayed in my marriage if she was ok with me transitioning. To me, wouldn't have felt right...can't explain it.
When she posed the question as to why I hadn't told her, I basically said I didn't know who I was. I just knew I had angst and confusion, and it impacted our relationship. My wish isn't that I could turn back the clock and "un-marry" her, but I wish it didn't take me so long to deal with it. Getting married, in hindsight seemed like the right thing to do as all my friends were married. I got married for the wrong reason.
I feel bad for her in a way, because we had a ton of friends...and I'm sure she's embarrassed by me...and pretty sure friends think a lot less of me. Do I care? Nah
Staci you sound a lot like what I went thru except I don't rly drink as my father was an alcoholic. I also got rly good at bury my emotions, even say detach them from me. Even in the most intense situations I could be stone on the out side (@&?$ I hated that ability). Yes my wife knows about my inner struggle as I started to transition a few years ago. It ended with an ultimatum I couldn't take as I wasn't able to coupe with it because I was in a place thinking I could complete my transition (probably half way) but if I continued i didn't have a plan for dealing with the ultimatum. So at that moment it was given I panicked and decided to take the easy way and stop. My wife is more open to it now and like I said would support me but couldn't stay married and that I understand.
And Nina regards to your post what I would do to have been born 10 years later even 5. The difference in the resources available in that difference of time for younger trans ppl in my area was huge. I remember trying to come out 3 times and was verbally attached by my bigot parents. And yes I say that in all fairness. If ppl could take the time and just listen and try to understand instead of just saying no my wife never would have been brought into this. I was just living life according to everyone's rules and doing "the right thing". Yeah I decided to get married and have kids. But that was the roll I was forced to live. And if I didn't and transitioned younger. I'd still lose cause then I did the wrong thing. I was just trying to do the right thing
Because it is not logical. Why go through all the pain, physical and emotional. Cost, it's not cheap being a woman, especially if you have a little style. People who would be terrified of going to a hospital for tonsillitis happily sign up for FFS and GRS. Alienation, that's not such a problem as I have been alienated from society for a long time, self imposed of course. . A chemically castrated transwoman, we wanting sex with whomever shows up in the bathroom. The idea we somehow have cooties because we are different. We do it because we are compelled by unknown sources. If I had the choice, I would have prefered a normal life, as a woman from the start. Or, if the opportunities had been available, from childhood. That would have been logical not cowering in fear someone may find out you have a secret. Truth be known, I have not felt so good as I have in the last 6 months.
Quote from: JoanneB on January 17, 2017, 10:21:18 PM
For now... Since most days it's "I want" and thank God not "Need" to transition, trying to think of myself as Non-Binary helps. If that delicate balance changes to most days I feel I "Need" to.... Rest assured I will. Just as I knew I needed to all the other things to get me to this point of confusion to survive. To wake up on the sunny side of the grass. I hold and to have Joy in my life
Hi Joanne,
I would be interested to know a little more about how you would define "Need". Is it the point where you figure your life isn't worth living anymore or is it something less than that?
Thanks,
Paige :)
Quote from: JoanneB on January 17, 2017, 10:21:18 PM
Since most days it's "I want" and thank God not "Need" to transition, trying to think of myself as Non-Binary helps. .....To wake up on the sunny side of the grass. I hold and to have Joy in my life
I suppose I am in the same boat. I could easily live as a guy - I don't fear suicide if I don't transition like so many others - just that whilst I am living in boy mode I feel incomplete, I look at girls with jealousy first and sexual appreciation second, I feel my life is 2-D instead of 3-D, in black and white instead of colour. Whether I stay boy or go girl, even if that choice is the wrong move, I would adapt as opposed to feeling my life is ruined. As a result I could argue that I am not trans enough for transition and life would be easier (and cheaper) staying male but here's the thing:
That want is very real. It's a desire. And it won't go away. It might not be a need yet (though I disagree) but it may easily get that way after all, two years ago I never thought I'd consider transition and thought I was happy as a socially-active ->-bleeped-<-. However, I've been trans from being a very small child and had I enjoyed carte blanche to switch roles as I have now, I probaby would have come to transition much earlier - instead I experienced wave after wave of trans-ness and suppressed them with token gesture attempts at cross-dressing and gender-confirming limits of
'this is a hobby only', 'keep it secret', 'maybe it'll go away for good this time'. So what is only a want now may ot stay that way. But more than that - a want is a want, regardless. It's not a
'nice to have' or
'I'll take if you're giving it me but I wasn't gagging for one' like you do if someone offers you their doughnut because they're not going to eat it. Want is desire. Want is your subconscious/body telling you that it's required for appeasement. You may not need to eat food at this moment in time, you may only want it, but if you don't feed at some point then that want wil become a need.
In addition, my want is all-consuming. I think about it all the time. That is not an exaggeration. Every day not en femme feels a day wasted and I look at girls with jealousy. Not just those on a night out and wearing all the fun outfits but everyday wear, too. And makeip and eyebrows and nails. As said, my life feels 2-D when as a guy and there's that gnawing away at me constantly and so I know that if I don't go for it, I'll look back with regret. I don't want to be looking at that sunny side of grass in the knowledge that I missed my chance, thinking of the extra joy I could have had. Though I have no intention of quitting, the worst that can happen is that I try it and realise it's not for me after all but it's better to regret the things you have done than the things you haven't.
Or, better yet,
say 'what the <not permitted>?!'. 'What the <not permitted>?!' gives you freedom, freedom brings you opportunity, opportunity makes your future. So damn the world and everyone in it, free yourself of burden, expectation and doubt - the minute you do - be it leaving a job, a relationship, deciding you want to cram a suitcase and be on the road in 30 minutes to a spontaneous weekend break - you are free, the world is your oyster. Now you can go anywhere and do anything (in this case start transition/live full-time). This is your opportunity. Whether you go back or go forward, you are devoid of limitations - you are creating your true future.
Quote from: Nina_Ottawa on January 18, 2017, 04:32:32 AM
Here is the one the question my ex asked me when I told her....you may get this:
If you knew you were trans, why did we get married?
Yes. I got the corollary response to that too. She said, "You ruined my life. I could have married someone else."
She, the unwed mother of two children I raised as my own.
She, who lives in a house she could never have afforded on her own - that I still pay the mortgage on even though I haven't lived there in four years.
She, who was able to go back to school and earn a Master's degree in education while we were married.
Yes, I sure ruined her life.
~Terri
Quote from: Nina_Ottawa on January 18, 2017, 04:32:32 AM
Here is the one the question my ex asked me when I told her....you may get this:
If you knew you were trans, why did we get married?
When I was asked that I answered honestly - Because I didn't know I was trans.
Denial can be very powerful, especially when denial is easier than acceptance.
In the end, some will be much happier not transitioning, some much happier transitioning and for some it will be a coin toss. The trick is to figure out which one is you. If it's the coin toss, good luck! Don't ask me how I know. :eusa_shhh:
Quote from: vicki_sixx on January 18, 2017, 08:51:04 AM
You're not crazy.
You're doing what you know you need to do.
The doom, gloom, pain and stress is not the end of your world - it's the birth of a new one.
Mine is not a new world, but a new me. I spent 50+ years in the world that formed me, and led me to this point. I can't very well discard it, since it is part of me. However, I was prepared to lose it all its benefits. I honestly thought that would be the price of transition - loss of friends, loss of career, and loss of family. So far I have kept my career - I actually transitioned on the job - and kept most of my friends, but I lost my sons. At least for now. However, I believe that if I can show them I still love them long enough, that we will meet again down the line.
This is an amazing thread. I am proud of you all because I relate so clearly to what you are saying. Great things often come at great cost.
~Terri
Quote from: Kristinagl on January 17, 2017, 07:09:03 PM
Ty for your responses. I wasn't expecting answers just insite as I was venting in a bad place last night. I know I'm fully going through with my transition. Deserve to be happy and anybody that stops me doesn't want what is physically best for me and imo it's unfair to ask someone not to and have them suffer for the rest of there life. I know my wife will support my transition but not want to remain married. And I think that's fair. She never asked for this life and I can't hold that against her. I'm sure my kids will be supporting. Their kids and kids are generally awesome like that. As for work and financially speaking that I have no choice but to blow that up. But what ever. But honestly if it all goes side ways at least I tried and all you can do is pick your self up and make the best out of the situation
That's how I look at it.
When I possibly expected some support on this issue from the person I have devoted most of my energy and affection to on this planet the response was "I don't know how you do it. If I were you would have
killed myself a long time ago." Still trying to figure if I should chalk that up to sickening pessimism or some kind of compliment.
Either way it was like magic words. Killing myself is the absolute last thing I will do because I want to be there for that moment when I flip Life the bird from a place of satisfaction. I'm going to do this thing no matter what or who tries to stop me. You know you got to a place you wanted to be in before (now, bar transition); you know you can do it again, that it is possible.
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on January 18, 2017, 06:39:31 PM
Yes. I got the corollary response to that too. She said, "You ruined my life. I could have married someone else."
She, the unwed mother of two children I raised as my own.
She, who lives in a house she could never have afforded on her own - that I still pay the mortgage on even though I haven't lived there in four years.
She, who was able to go back to school and earn a Master's degree in education while we were married.
Yes, I sure ruined her life.
~Terri
Terri,
Lol...I'm the same...."you got the house, cottage, my daughter, my retirement account," and you're mad at me?
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on January 18, 2017, 06:59:49 PM
Mine is not a new world, but a new me.
A tad pedantic. Switch 'world' for 'life', then. I was going for a birthing theme anyway.
Quote from: SadieBlake on January 18, 2017, 10:10:33 AM
OP, you fear losing wealth and status? Try doing this without those. The only logic is what you decide you want and how you go about getting it. When I read your post I want to retitle it to "why can't i just make the materialistic choice?"
Because too may people depended on me for support. I dealt with my dysphoria with immersing myself in work, which paid the bills.
Later, after the kids left home, Mrs and me just slowly drifted apart. We lived two separate lives.
Those old feelings that never went away, came back stronger than ever. This time, I had the knowledge, resources and money to transition. So I did. End of story. Beginning of new life.
OMG!!! I don't know what to say! I just discovered this thread and read through all the responses and almost every single one of them made me tear up because it reflected exactly what I was/am going through.
The question from the wife:"why did you marry me when you knew you were trans?" That's exactly what she keeps blaming me for ever since I came out to her.
We somehow need to find a way to explain our loved ones that it really is NOT A CHOICE to be trans but hardcoded into our brains without having any kind of control toI make this go away. I have yet to find those smart but simple words...
Maybe the entirety of this thread could be convincing enough that I'm not the only"crazy" person with this idea to quickly change genders because it's trendy at the moment...
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: JessicaSondelli on January 19, 2017, 06:56:51 AM
The question from the wife:"why did you marry me when you knew you were trans?" That's exactly what she keeps blaming me for ever since I came out to her.
We somehow need to find a way to explain our loved ones that it really is NOT A CHOICE to be trans but hardcoded into our brains without having any kind of control toI make this go away. I have yet to find those smart but simple words...
Yes, I agree that it's not a choice to be trans. We were born this way, with a transgender brain. The scientific evidence supports that. Our gender identities are established by age 3. So we've known we were female from a very early age. Or if we weren't fully aware, we at least knew something was wrong, even as children.
So, why did everyone get married?
Being trans is not a choice, but getting married is indeed a choice. Getting married, having sex, having children - all as a man - they were all choices that you consciously made. Why? Why did you do those things if you felt and knew that it wasn't right?
Sorry, I'm sure I'm offending a lot of people, but I really struggle to understand how so many late transitioners were able to live as husbands and fathers for so many years, if their core gender identity has been that of a female all along. Please help me understand.
Quote from: Mirya on January 19, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
So, why did everyone get married? Being trans is not a choice, but getting married is indeed a choice. Getting married, having sex, having children - all as a man - they were all choices that you consciously made. Why? Why did you do those things if you felt and knew that it wasn't right?
Sorry, I'm sure I'm offending a lot of people, but I really struggle to understand how so many late transitioners were able to live as husbands and fathers for so long. Please help me understand.
I never married, but that didn't stop me from trying. In my case I spent the entirety of my twenties convinced that if I found the right girl and settled down, had a few kids, then that would "fix" me. With enough distractions you can put off dealing with your issues for a long time, and simply babysitting my nephew I can say that small children are very good at sucking up your attention.
Mirya I understand how you can not understand why we did what we did and get married and have kids. I can't speak for everyone but for me I was in such a negative environment towards anybody trans I was afraid and forced to bury it. I didn't get married or have kids as a cover I did want those. I love my family so much. But lived my life how ppl around me expected me to live it. I thought this was something I could live with and suppress. But unfortunately in my case it has come to a point I can't even control my being trans. It consumes every waking thought and causes me much inner unhappiness to the point I can't not act on it if I want to be in a good place of any remote happiness. It has come to the point I can't enjoy anybody's company and sometimes even take my unhappiness out on the ppl I love. Imo transitioning and even how it effects others directly is better then the alternative path I feel I'm headed for if I remain with my birth gender. Yes I did choose to get married and yes I choose to have kids. But in no way could I have ever foreseen how being trans would come to effect me in my years to come. And if I want to rly balance someone for this I blame every bigot that has made me live in shame and bury the fact I was trans. Me being this way has nothing to do with anybody and nor does it effect them in the least other then the fact they may know I'm trans. I can guarantee the fact I would have transitioned as a kid and this would have never effected anybody in my future but because of other ppl I have made the choices I made to live in safety and acceptance.
Quote from: Mirya on January 19, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
Yes, I agree that it's not a choice to be trans. We were born this way, with a transgender brain. The scientific evidence supports that. Our gender identities are established by age 3. So we've known we were female from a very early age. Or if we weren't fully aware, we at least knew something was wrong, even as children.
So, why did everyone get married? Being trans is not a choice, but getting married is indeed a choice. Getting married, having sex, having children - all as a man - they were all choices that you consciously made. Why? Why did you do those things if you felt and knew that it wasn't right?
Sorry, I'm sure I'm offending a lot of people, but I really struggle to understand how so many late transitioners were able to live as husbands and fathers for so many years, if their core gender identity has been that of a female all along. Please help me understand.
Well the answer to the question "why I got married?" is quite simple: I fell in love with her and sincerely thought that love had cured me.
The next question then would be: so why have children?
The answer: the urge to be normal and just have a family like everyone else. I didn't really realize back then that I was indeed trans. I considered myself a closet cross-dresser.
So what you're saying is that everybody who doesn't fit the norm shouldn't get married and not have children? I'm sorry but I don't agree with that and I'm sure many others are with me on this.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: Mirya on January 19, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
Sorry, I'm sure I'm offending a lot of people, but I really struggle to understand how so many late transitioners were able to live as husbands and fathers for so many years, if their core gender identity has been that of a female all along. Please help me understand.
Hun, I de-transitioned later than I should have, and yes, I did know there was something about me that would be kryptonite in any hetero woman's mind. So, I always had the "I won't ever get married" and "I don't want kids" thing out there at the start of every relationship. Even so, I did enter into hetero relations with women without disclosing my mis-givings about my assigned gender. I didn't even mention that I knew intrinsically I was sterile, that was also very socially stigmatizing, and avoiding stigma was the name of the game in the 20th Century. For those born into a world of smart phones, internet, Wikipedia, and 24 hour access to everything, there is just no way to explain the isolation and limits of life without such things.
But I also have to say, I hid my proclivities from my future ex mostly because we were a good fit otherwise, and our love was deep and real and profoundly satisfying.
Also because I was lying to myself, too, and figured most people entered into relationships with lies and secrets. I have owned my own deceptions now.
Also, there was no information anywhere that satisfied my questions about my body and self. I am xx intersex and I was mis-gendered and deliberately gas-lighted into believing I was male. Eventually I had developed male alters, so they were also very invested in the delusion I was a man.
When I met my spouse of 18 years, I had just ended a relationship with a woman that knew I was a woman better than I did. We had engaged in role-reversal sex play and it was very, very orgasmic for me, but still, I could not figure out what I was. I knew I wasn't gay, or trans, but there was no info anywhere to help me know myself. So, I tried to be what society expected and fit in and find happiness the best I could, how ever I could.
I was wrong to not disclose my feelings to my ex, but it was also self-preservation. Outing myself without knowing who or what I really was, well, it was social and professional and relational suicide. I was not prepared to pay that price, nor did I ever expect to find my answers.
I hope this helps you gain some insight as to why somebody might hide that which that should not have.
Missy
Quote from: Mirya on January 19, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
So, why did everyone get married? Being trans is not a choice, but getting married is indeed a choice. Getting married, having sex, having children - all as a man - they were all choices that you consciously made. Why? Why did you do those things if you felt and knew that it wasn't right?
Please help me understand.
My personal experience and orientation led me to know myself as queer and transgender from an early age. Part of my challenge was having no mentors, objective information or language for any of that in the 50s and 60s. What i did learn was the culturally sanctioned disgust directed toward my "perverted" feelings and behaviors. I learned to hide and then deny those feelings to survive. From what I have learned that is not an uncommon experience.
I simply fell in love with my life partner and she fell in love with me. Being bi or pan or queer allows me to feel love, attraction and desire for a person regardless of their gender. For me it remains about hearts not parts. My lovers could likely tell I was not a typical man and indeed I have always felt/acted more like a female lover.
Another part of the equation is telling the truth and being honest. I was fortunate enough to be in love with a person who also felt herself to be Bi. We explored our feelings and allowed each other significant flexibility in experiencing our orientation. As a young adult I still could not accept being transgender but as I thought about it, I shared my fears, thoughts and cross dressing with my partner along the way. She has always known and had her own conclusions and freedom to respond.
I think for many of us this self awareness and acceptance can be a lifelong pursuit and not a fully determined status upon arriving at the age to marry. I admire and applaud those who do figure it out as children or teens.
Sorry about the derail but once again it seems logic has little impact on how culture and love impact our lives?
Quote from: vicki_sixx on January 19, 2017, 03:02:02 AM
A tad pedantic. Switch 'world' for 'life', then. I was going for a birthing theme anyway.
Sorry, that was not my intent. I meant to differentiate my transition from those who try to change the whole world around them in a practical sense. They change their names, their jobs, drop their friends, perhaps even their family, and move to a new town or even a new country. That was my point.
~Terri
Quote from: Mirya on January 19, 2017, 09:57:52 AM
So, why did everyone get married? Being trans is not a choice, but getting married is indeed a choice.
This thread has taken an interesting turn. I admire your fortitude for bringing up this issue.
And I can about 1/2 way agree with it.
But
1. The question is being asked in 2017. Not so long ago there was no internet. No transition industry. No support groups. No Caitlin Jenner. No Transparent. No National Geographic Cover. Etc. Most of us were alone and isolated with this and the options were to either try to find comfort in a life with another person while hiding and trying to change and conform OR fight a Quixotic struggle. Live alone in an wilderness of pain and isolation OR try and do the best we can with what we have and conform to a life that seemed to provide happiness to those around us. Disclaimer: I never married but I came within a whisker once when I got a girl pregnant and she miscarried. I asked her to marry me. She was considering it.
2. In my 30s tho it became very, very clear to me that I could never hide this from another person and the thought of sharing it was . . . well, let's just say I had not yet evolved to that point. So I did wrap that cloak of isolation and loneliness around me. But I would never fault someone else for trying a different way.
3. The choices we face are difficult and denial is not just a river in Egypt. I can totally get how easy it would be to make an attempt at what we may at one time have seen as our only chance at happiness.
4. Making that choice today with all the choices and support groups and consciousness and awareness and the way society has evolved is, I think, different.
Why did I get married?
I fell in love. I thought I was cured. I'd had my testosterone shots, the parish priest had counseled me in how to avoid lapsing into sin, and I was all better. I thought I was safe.
We were in love. I was in the military, successfully being a manly man doing dangerous manly things. Marriage sounded right, it sounded good. Children would be wonderful.
I thought we would have a fairy tale ending.
I was wrong.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: JessicaSondelli on January 19, 2017, 10:32:53 AM
So what you're saying is that everybody who doesn't fit the norm shouldn't get married and not have children? I'm sorry but I don't agree with that and I'm sure many others are with me on this.
That's not what I said at all. Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said those things. I'm not trying to tell people how they should live their life. Where did I say that? Instead, I'm asking why you (and others like you) made the choices that you did.
Thank you, everyone, for all the responses so far.
The question I feel of you asking why did you get married and have kids imo was completely fair. I felt like it was a honest question that was completely relevant to the initial topic.
My wife has known about me since our second date. Apart from her, this part of my was kept secretive and transition was never even in the vocabulary. It was a "dream" in my mind, but never thought it possible because I didn't compare to the examples I had access to at that time...."Group 1" woman. Young/petite usually identified as "gay boys" that ultimately "easily" became straight passable girls. That wasn't me and therefore I doubted my internal struggle. As the years went on, and we had our son (via Gestational surrogate), transition was still not being considered...I honestly thought I just enjoyed crossdressing and had this need to express my internal self from time to time. Life and its expectations continued until my mental distress discovered that "cross dressing" wasn't what it was, and most of you know how the rest goes.
Fortunately for us my wife has always had a bisexual tendency and as my inner self needed to come out our love making shifted exclusively to a lesbian relationship...which I felt much more comfortable with, and she preferred. We went from a 3 to a 12 in the lovemaking scale after we both figured out who we were. When I told her about my need for transition she did some heavy analyzing of her life and she's since come out as Lesbian....throughout her life I was the only blip of a man (at least on the outside). Funny how life works.
With regard to the OP... I have lost a lot in my life. Everyday, basic things that people take for granted. Things you don't even think twice about. Because of being myself.
The logical thing is to do that which gives you security, causes the least pain, takes the path of least resistance.
The reality of it is, it doesn't give you anything. Because it's not you. It's an amalgamation of everything the world wants you to be, and see, and do. And there comes a time, when you're alone with your thoughts, and you see yourself... you ask... what exactly do I have? And the answer is nothing. Everything in this world that you've built up, that you hold dear... it's attributed to a person who is... a mirage. People around you, they don't see you.
We keep what we have to insulate ourselves from the cold cruelty of the world. But when those selves are false, everything else becomes false, in time. And you realise something. Sometimes you have to lose the world you think you know, to gain the self you know you know. And when you do... everything you gain after becomes so much more meaningful.
To quote the French novellist, Antoine de Saint-Exupery: "It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye."
Quote from: Mirya on January 19, 2017, 01:05:23 PM
That's not what I said at all. Why are you putting words in my mouth? I never said those things. I'm not trying to tell people how they should live their life. Where did I say that? Instead, I'm asking why you (and others like you) made the choices that you did.
Thank you, everyone, for all the responses so far.
Mirya,
ok, this thread is taking a turn to the worse... Let's not get there and instead enjoy the last day before DoomsDay tomorrow..
Before we do that, let me try to get things straight by quoting your exact words:
"Why? Why did you do those things if you felt and knew that it wasn't right?"
My answer is still the same and back then it just felt right - that was 20 years ago. it was a totally different time and even thinking about the possibility to transition was so alien to me plus as I said, I was in love plus just started my career in the financial industry.
So what you are trying to say is because I had the urge to be more feminine and wear feminine outfits in private I should not marry the woman I love? Did I get that right?
This is actually pretty much how my wife is thinking. She has the opinion that trans people should not be allowed to have children. Do you agree with that statement?
Going to lock for review.