The only thing that has to change about me is the fact I have a dick!! What else matters?
For your sake please tell your surgeon that your emotions, perspectives, perceptions, habits and the other things that compose a personality are, in your case, in your dick so the surgeon can work around them.
If you're not mad, who cares?
Wing Walker
Enough Nonsense for This Night
Quote from: Robbie on November 10, 2007, 08:41:49 PM
The only thing that has to change about me is the fact I have a dick!! What else matters?
There is more to being female.
if you think being female, is having a vagina, your dead bloody wrong.
Im a female, i always have been, my body didnt always look it, but i am, for me, i didnt have to change anthing really, i knew what i was, but nobody else did, so i transitioned my body so that others could see what i see... as i dont walk around naked from the waist down, at the moment, i can live with not having grs till i can afford it. woman is what i am, not what i have between my legs.
R :police:
Quote from: Robbie on November 10, 2007, 08:41:49 PM
The only thing that has to change about me is the fact I have a dick!! What else matters?
Care to elaborate a bit further?
~Kate~
Quote from: Robbie on November 10, 2007, 08:41:49 PM
The only thing that has to change about me is the fact I have a dick!! What else matters?
So your not interested in changing your appearance to look female? For me it's more important to appear female physically than genitialia and unless you are walking around in the nude everyday no one will ever notice any difference...
I think your possibly in here pulling our legs...
Quote from: Robbie on November 10, 2007, 08:41:49 PM
The only thing that has to change about me is the fact I have a dick!! What else matters?
And your point is....?
tink :icon_chick:
Thier point doesnt matter! only having a dick matters!
Duh Tink your so thick.... ::)
R :police:
Quote from: Robbie on November 10, 2007, 08:41:49 PM
The only thing that has to change about me is the fact I have a dick!! What else matters?
Perhaps how to come up with $20,000 or so to get rid of it? :P
y2g
Yep was just in time for me before I put the tack hammer to it. To the sausage factory with ya.
Cindy
if having a penis was the only problem, use the hardware store srs kit.... comes with free safety goggles!
R :police:
How about a pipe cutter. Or a pipe wrench, bolt cutter?
Cindy
Circular saws give you much more bang for your buck....
R :police:
The point is that Robbie who made the original post thinks removing their dick is a gender change. Absolutely no research has been made by the poster as to what a Trasnssexual is and how they feel and what a transition involves. It sounds like the post was made by a normal hetrosexual man to me?
tbh, thier not the only one on here that things a vagina makes a woman....
R :police:
Hmmm, to give my honest opinion, I would have to say, yes, it would appear that his/her post was rather vacuous. Like this description could go a long ways in Identifying a good portion of the so aptly called (normal people of society ,) whom also are rather vacuous. Or as you aptly identified this person as a (heterosexual male)
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on November 12, 2007, 06:25:28 AM
Hmmm, to give my honest opinion, I would have to say, yes, it would appear that his/her post was rather vacuous. Like this description could go a long ways in Identifying a good portion of the so aptly called (normal people of society ,) whom also are rather vacuous. Or as you aptly identified this person as a (heterosexual male)
Cindy
Basically I'm not taken in by Robbie..
It's the sort of thing one of my male 'jack the lad' friends would say..
If you can not afford a surgeon maybe you can look up the victim(?) in this story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorena_Bobbitt
To think they found the item and sowed it back on after sitting in a field for an hour or so...
Daisy
this is relevant how?
R :police:
Quotethis is relevant how?
??? Not sure which point you are speaking to:
If line 1 -- Sorry you sugggested a circular saw... she just used a butcher knife while he was sleeping..
If line 2 -- as far as reattaching -- just kind of gross image I visualized when your circular saw image crossed my mind -- ewwww!!
Sorry
Daisy :angel:
learn to not be so serious... i was taking the mickey... i only advise circular saws for trimming toenails..
R :police:
I notice that we hear nothing more from Robbie.
Wing Walker
LMAO
Edit: Removed name calling ~ Kate
zomg, they wernt serious? omg! my precious support time!
R :police:
Hi Rachael
Ya I guess the fun's over unless one of us wants to take up chainsaw juggling.
Cindy
When writing that post I was pointing out how absurd many of the things we say are. Rachael you are right vagina does not make a woman. Breasts do not make a woman. A dress does not make a woman. 50,000 dollars in plastic surgery does not a woman make. Why? Discovering where we belong on the gender continuum is so much more than passing, or make up, or any of that other crap that has been crammed down our throats about what a woman is. I see too many of us forced into stereo types of what women are. The journey is our own we determine where it takes us. Not friends, family, doctors, news papers, magazines, or TV. We put too much sock into what others think instead of educating them on what our predicament is.
As can been seen with the passage of house bill H.R. 3685. Many of the things that I have written in past posts are coming true. Until we all get away from the tabloid like descriptions and ideals of what being and living Trans is, we as a whole will not be taken seriously.
Too many people still see us as deviants and cross dressers. Just read the press. The only people we have to blame for this are ourselves. Many of you have gotten on me before for my form of advocacy and this House bill is the exact reason I live the way I do. Only through knowledge and education will others understand. Poetic Lumber and fairytales about living and being Trans will never work.
Hi Robbie, welcome to Susan's or were you already a member here, if you were, I haven't noticed you here before. If so then please forgive me for being presumptuous. I must say that at least this entry is not as vacuous as your first one. OK we now got something to go on with several different aspects of defining transsexual phenomena and discovering and learning the gender continuum all while one is doing the transitioning. Transitioning is like a battlefield you know? Ya you never know if you will survive it to it's completion. Any way if your were some ticked about me please accept my apologies.
I have been living as a woman full time for going on 8 years now and had the surgery four years ago. I use to come here at Susan's 8 years ago and I got a job working as a social worker where I came out on the job full time seven years ago. If you knew me hon you would find out I wasn't anything but a stereotype or even further from being normal, But I come to not care all that much what society out there thinks of me, I am rather fond of my weirdness, you need someone to read your horoscope? I an do it for you without the book. but for my age I am passable enough to be the woman I present. "Eh "I won't get into that tonight, to much writing.
Something I will never let go away and that's my imagination and my sense of humor, as long as the humor isn't directed at anyone in particular. You didn't leave us with much to identify as to who the writer of last nights post was. I will hold my imagination and humor to my bosom, for they are dear to me. They are like my life preserver when I am lost out there in a Sargasso sea of humanity.
Cindy
Quote from: Robbie on November 12, 2007, 10:28:45 PM
When writing that post I was pointing out how absurd many of the things we say are. Rachael you are right vagina does not make a woman. Breasts do not make a woman. A dress does not make a woman. 50,000 dollars in plastic surgery does not a woman make. Why? Discovering where we belong on the gender continuum is so much more than passing, or make up, or any of that other crap that has been crammed down our throats about what a woman is. I see too many of us forced into stereo types of what women are. The journey is our own we determine where it takes us. Not friends, family, doctors, news papers, magazines, or TV. We put too much sock into what others think instead of educating them on what our predicament is.
As can been seen with the passage of house bill H.R. 3685. Many of the things that I have written in past posts are coming true. Until we all get away from the tabloid like descriptions and ideals of what being and living Trans is, we as a whole will not be taken seriously.
Too many people still see us as deviants and cross dressers. Just read the press. The only people we have to blame for this are ourselves. Many of you have gotten on me before for my form of advocacy and this House bill is the exact reason I live the way I do. Only through knowledge and education will others understand. Poetic Lumber and fairytales about living and being Trans will never work.
So what have you done to change things? Have you gone to the Hill for Legislative Days? Have you written to Congressman Barney Frank, Congresswoman Tammy Baldwin, Speaker Pelosi, Congressman Hoyer, or the Human Rights Campaign to tell them how you feel about a Trans-inclusive ENDA or a Hate Crimes Bill? Have you contacted your state legislators to let them know your views on "Trans" issues?
This forum is a wonderful place to state one's opinions but the real forums are the legislatures, state and national. I've written, called, opened my apartment to those who were on the Hill for the lobby week, and bombarded the HRC with my criticism of how well they represent the trans persons.
Change what you will or won't about yourself, until the law changes, nothing changes.
Wing Walker
Actually, and I know it sucks, but "passing privilege" means everything. I know what my life was before I had it and after and although I wouldn't call it a "living hell" I would say it is the difference between heaven and hell or at least limbo.
I was always a woman but what good is that if I get "gendered" constantly as male?
Quote from: Robbie on November 12, 2007, 10:28:45 PM
Discovering where we belong on the gender continuum is so much more than passing, or make up, or any of that other crap that has been crammed down our throats about what a woman is. I see too many of us forced into stereo types of what women are.
Amen..
Absolutely right.
Quote from: Alison on November 13, 2007, 12:11:57 AM
Quote from: Robbie on November 12, 2007, 10:28:45 PM
Discovering where we belong on the gender continuum is so much more than passing, or make up, or any of that other crap that has been crammed down our throats about what a woman is. I see too many of us forced into stereo types of what women are.
Amen..
Absolutely right.
No one has forced me into any stereotype or any other feminine looking women, for that matter. IMNSHO That is a totally misogynistic POV as if we women are so easily manipulated, we could be forced into a stereotype. As if wanting to look sexy and feminine is something we do for MEN.
Guess what, girls, (I am speaking to girls, right?) most women dress for other women not for MEN.
Quote from: melissa90299 on November 13, 2007, 12:35:57 AM
Quote from: Alison on November 13, 2007, 12:11:57 AM
Quote from: Robbie on November 12, 2007, 10:28:45 PM
Discovering where we belong on the gender continuum is so much more than passing, or make up, or any of that other crap that has been crammed down our throats about what a woman is. I see too many of us forced into stereo types of what women are.
Amen..
Absolutely right.
No one has forced me into any stereotype or any other feminine looking women, for that matter. IMNSHO That is a totally misogynistic POV as if we women are so easily manipulated, we could be forced into a stereotype. As if wanting to look sexy and feminine is something we do for MEN.
Guess what, girls, (I am speaking to girls, right?) most women dress for other women not for MEN.
I don't think that my gender has ANYTHING to do with my physical appearance. If you look at me, ALL you will see is "woman". I do NOT pass and frankly I don't think I ever will...
I do find it amusing that you found me misogynistic considering I lived as a woman for 26 years and only recently discovered I wasn't. If you wish to look sexy or 'feminine' I certainly hope you do it for yourself, but my point was (and I'd wager Robbie's point as well) looking 'feminine' and sexy does NOT "make you a woman". What is the point in looking 'feminine' and sexy for other women (or men, or anyone else)? Do it for YOU.
Quote from: melissa90299 on November 13, 2007, 12:35:57 AM
Quote from: Alison on November 13, 2007, 12:11:57 AM
Quote from: Robbie on November 12, 2007, 10:28:45 PM
Discovering where we belong on the gender continuum is so much more than passing, or make up, or any of that other crap that has been crammed down our throats about what a woman is. I see too many of us forced into stereo types of what women are.
Amen..
Absolutely right.
No one has forced me into any stereotype or any other feminine looking women, for that matter. IMNSHO That is a totally misogynistic POV as if we women are so easily manipulated, we could be forced into a stereotype. As if wanting to look sexy and feminine is something we do for MEN.
Guess what, girls, (I am speaking to girls, right?) most women dress for other women not for MEN.
I fully agree with you, Melissa. I didn't care what the males on my job thought of my outfit, my hair, my nails, my makeup, whatever. The desire to look good among the rest of the girls was just shy of competitive.
A few days after my reporting to work in my true birth gender, I was stopped by four of my GFs. They formed a circle around me. Each one looked intently at me before they agreed that I had my makeup on "flawlessly." I was taken aback by their expert opinion and I keep that encounter in my heart to get me past the quiet times not that I'm retired.
I never had a male on the job tell me that I was dressed well or that my hair looked nice, but the girls did. When I wore hot-looking shoes with matching handbag I got phone calls with uplifting comments You can bet the bundle that I also returned the good words lavishly.
IMHO, there are no stereotypical women outside of television sitcoms.
The only male that I would ***ever*** dress for would be my partner or husband, and since I am soul mate and life partner to Cindy, that makes that point a non-starter in my life, thank you!
Wing Walker
QuoteI do find it amusing that you found me misogynistic considering I lived as a woman for 26 years and only recently discovered I wasn't.
I wish I was so easily amused. Misogynism is so deeply rooted in our culture, it isn't confined to any gender.
QuoteIf you wish to look sexy or 'feminine' I certainly hope you do it for yourself, but my point was (and I'd wager Robbie's point as well) looking 'feminine' and sexy does NOT "make you a woman".
There are an awful lot of things that go into being a woman and for most women, being feminine is one of them.
QuoteWhat is the point in looking 'feminine' and sexy for other women (or men, or anyone else)? Do it for YOU.
I do do it for me but I also do it to attract potential mates, female and male as well as being seen as an attractive person (in my case, a woman) by society as a whole. As well, physical attraction is only a part of it. Of course, the ugly people are going to whine about why physical attraction even matters. Well, it shouldn't but it does.
Tough.
i totally agree, this community is full of steriotypes, and misconceptions of how we should act or be to b e 'true transexuals' and lets not forget the social hierarchy of this forum, and the community. a bloody, slippery ladder where everyone claws and bites thier way up...
'do you hate your penis'
'ive always felt i was a girl but only transitioned at 50'
'i pass better than you!'
'worship my ->-bleeped-<-ness'
'im post op, im better than all you disgusting preops'
Ok, the topic titles got more abstract to the end, but the meanings got more true.
This community is FULL of oneupmanship, we fight eachother more than prejudice.
If i was an anti trans campaigner, and got one look at this community, id wait for it to self destruct on its own and get a cuppa...
there is far too much narcasism in the trans community, and far too many steriotypes propogated through assumed feeling....
hmm, they all hate thier penis... maybe i should to, to be accepted?
R :police:
R
I think a penis is the least noticeable part of a persons profile and in no way a gender indicator. In the western world we wear clothes, so genitalia is not seen and if someone has a penis or does not have a penis it doesn't define gender appearance at all. Some of the most atractive beautiful women I have ever seen were Brazillian transsexuals who still had their dicks....
Some of the most masculine men I've ever seen have been patients at U.K's London Charing Cross Gender Identity clinic and they were post op transsexual GRS patients...
Honour, I rest my case..
what beliegh tactfully misses out, is those were m2fs :P
R :police:
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man (as the case maybe). My transsexuality was simply the journey, it's my womanhood that counts and this woman does not have a dick. Chicks with dicks are seen as perverse and unnatural by society and I doubt very much that this perception will ever change. It's the old "Acceptance" or "Completely passing" argument again.
Steph
i agree... people concentrate on this too much...
personally ive gone for the completely pass option, well, just do....
life is easy, why bring it up?
R :police:
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man ...
Or... maybe just focus more on being themselves, and let the chips fall where they may? I figure I'm Kate first, who *incidentally* also happens to be a woman. I think that it's exactly when people DO focus on
"being a woman" that we end up with stereotypes and caricatures...
~Kate~
Quote from: Kate on November 13, 2007, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man ...
Or... maybe just focus more on being themselves, and let the chips fall where they may? I figure I'm Kate first, who *incidentally* also happens to be a woman. I think that it's exactly when people DO focus on "being a woman" that we end up with stereotypes and caricatures...
~Kate~
Right. You are better off if you would just be yourself instead of a stupid stereotype.
Quote from: Kate on November 13, 2007, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man ...
... I think that it's exactly when people DO focus on "being a woman" that we end up with stereotypes and caricatures...
~Kate~
Only when they are obviously not and try to re-invent, re-define, re-model, and re-whatever else a woman is so that they are comfortable with what they are. I would also say that this type of person is not TS either but something else. If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman, and therefore one should concentrate on living accordingly.
Yep I'm a strong believer in there only being two genders, heresy to some but for me it's what I believe.
Steph
Quote from: melissa90299 on November 13, 2007, 03:19:24 AM
QuoteWhat is the point in looking 'feminine' and sexy for other women (or men, or anyone else)? Do it for YOU.
I do do it for me but I also do it to attract potential mates, female and male as well as being seen as an attractive person (in my case, a woman) by society as a whole. As well, physical attraction is only a part of it. Of course, the ugly people are going to whine about why physical attraction even matters. Well, it shouldn't but it does.
Tough.
Women care about being feminine (and therefore, pretty) for many reasons - every reason. They want to like what they see in the mirror, they like to turn men's heads, and for other women. Women care more how other women look than men care how women look.
And all that IS doing it for themselves.
"Personally my dear, I don't give a damn."
Well everything that has been discussed on this list thus far is nothing new to me, but the same old, same old. I am who I am and have lived as her for 7 years and I didn't even get a hero biscuit left on my pillow by the Transsexual Fairy, either. I haven't given a thought to who I was before, except an occasional thought about my roots.
Well at least I seldom did, until I came back here to this list. Hmmmmm, nothing has changed much except that most of the TS students are much younger than back 8 years ago, and in my opinion, I say that this is good, actually, better than good. it is is excellent to see that these young individuals will someday integrate and live a full life as their true selves in society. A wonderful, humble, new beginning and much longer opportunity to experience and enjoy their new lives.
Yes, enjoy, get on with it and live as you. There is no law against enjoying your new life. So many more wonderful years to look forward to, well, a lot more then us old bats do anyway.
It was both a case of curiosity and an opportunity to learn more about the Transsexual phenomena and maybe give a little support where and when it is needed were my only intentions. I do see, though, that this list still contains a few of the same demons that used to plague it the last time I was here 8 years ago. That would be psychological demons I would be speaking about, to be sure.
Prior to my retirement two years ago, I worked as a social worker and I worked *as my true self*for 7 years. Why would I want to come back here after 7 years? It was for the simple reason that I stumbled across the link to this list and was bored out of my gourd and then curiosity set in.
There is also the fact I have a possible position as a volunteer support worker at an outreach center for Transsexuals here In Vancouver. That's it. Simple as that. I have no interest in getting into any petty arguments about the dissection and analysis of the female anatomy or psychology and the difference in mental processes between the female and male brain to find out what makes a woman tick as a woman. As interesting as the science was, I do not believe it makes up the complete character. I do believe that much of the behavioral part is hereditary and if one has a predisposed mind towards the feminine, some of these traits do come to the surface. I am here only with the desire to learn how we got there.
Cindy
Hi Tink!!!
I think it is the height of misogynism to promote the idea that there is something artificial about women flouting their femininity or it is some kind of male construct. I do object to objectification and using femininity to sell beer. I also object to the idea that trans women typically over-feminize themselves. That is all we see in the media. Always showing us putting on lipstick or nylons. But trying to tell trans women that there is something wrong with wanting to glamourize themselves is transphobic and trans-misogynistic.
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 03:04:04 PM
If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman, and therefore one should concentrate on living accordingly.
That's funny. I've been diagnosed with GID by a gender specialist that's totally aware of my non-binary gender identity and is allowing me to pursue a non-binary transition path.
Mind you, I don't exist, so this post is obviously a figment of your imagination.
Yay for medical professionals who aren't bigots.
Quote from: Kate on November 13, 2007, 02:11:45 PM
Or... maybe just focus more on being themselves, and let the chips fall where they may? I figure I'm Kate first, who *incidentally* also happens to be a woman. I think that it's exactly when people DO focus on "being a woman" that we end up with stereotypes and caricatures...
~Kate~
One of the most intelligent things said in this thread. It's always best to just be yourself and let the pieces fall where they may.
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 03:04:04 PM
Only when they are obviously not and try to re-invent, re-define, re-model, and re-whatever else a woman is so that they are comfortable with what they are. I would also say that this type of person is not TS either but something else. If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman, and therefore one should concentrate on living accordingly.
Yep I'm a strong believer in there only being two genders, heresy to some but for me it's what I believe.
Steph
So .... This Section (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,57.0.html) is just there for decoration? :-\ Me thinks the word 'obviously' doesn't mean what you think it means. :(
Quote from: melissa90299 on November 13, 2007, 04:54:55 PM
Hi Tink!!!
Hi hon! :) Were you referring to me or to Cindybc?
Regarding stereotypes...well, first off people should speak for themselves and not for everyone else. I'm NOT feminine to conform to any stereotype; I guess you could say that it is just how I naturally am. I've been very feminine (note what I say...feminine
not effeminate...there is a difference :P) since I can remember. I have never tried to conform to any stereotype at all, I just fall into it perfectly without trying; that's who I am, who I have always been; I don't imitate how women behave. That's why I usually say that I am just a girl like the zillions of others who were born with XX chromosomes and the right set of genitals. Incidentally, I am not bragging either. There are five people from this website who know me personally; they have seen me face to face, so they can tell you.
Now as far as being your "own woman"....well... in the past I used to know a few people who had that philosophy about "things". They claimed they were "their own woman" and acted as such (i.e, they wouldn't do anything to improve their male voice, they didn't care about facial hair removal, etc). However, they were the ones who always moaned and cried when society didn't perceive them or accept them as the women they said they were. So you see, the bottom line is this, if you can pull that off (the "my own woman stuff", that is), I applaud you and kuddos to you. But please do not complain when society doesn't accept you as "your own woman".
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
My transsexuality was simply the journey, it's my womanhood that counts and this woman does not have a dick.
Steph
Exactly. And for the record, this fairy doesn't have *one of those* either!
tink :icon_chick:
[/quote]
One of the most intelligent things said in this thread. It's always best to just be yourself and let the pieces fall where they may.[/quote]
Stating be yourself is not exactly deeply profound. It should even have to be said, in fact. It is a given.
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 03:04:04 PM
Only when they are obviously not and try to re-invent, re-define, re-model, and re-whatever else a woman is so that they are comfortable with what they are. I would also say that this type of person is not TS either but something else. If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman, and therefore one should concentrate on living accordingly.
Yep I'm a strong believer in there only being two genders, heresy to some but for me it's what I believe.
Steph
So .... This Section (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,57.0.html) is just there for decoration? :-\ Me thinks the word 'obviously' doesn't mean what you think it means. :(
[/quote]
Androgyne is not a gender IMNSHO. If you want to consider androgynes a third gender and you are one be my guest but please do not try to lump trans women into that third gender. We are women.
By definition, androgynes are not MALE TO FEMALE Transsexuals. Whatever, androgynes are they are quite different from your garden variety trans woman.
Posted on: November 13, 2007, 08:50:57 PM
Hi Tink!
Tink wrote:
QuoteThey claimed they were "their own woman" and acted as such (i.e, they wouldn't do anything to improve their male voice, they didn't care about facial hair removal, etc). However, they were the ones who always moaned and cried when society didn't perceive them or accept them as the women they said they were.
That sounds like a gender queer which is fine. If one wants to be gender queer, have a ball. But don't also claim that you are a transsexual woman.
Quote from: Tink on November 13, 2007, 07:28:32 PM
Exactly. And for the record, this fairy doesn't have *one of those* either!
tink :icon_chick:
Well that's the point isn't it? Not having *one of those* did not make you a woman. Surgery just allowed your body to match the true you. Some women are not able to be at that point (yet).
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
I believe this is one post that made the most sense on this thread.
QuoteMy transsexuality was simply the journey, it's my womanhood that counts and this woman does not have a dick.
Steph
Nope, and neither does the fairy.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2FFairyagatharian-1.jpg&hash=687b941b12db5aaf3720743cbce82cd7fcd8d9cc)
Cindy
Posted on: November 13, 2007, 09:20:04 PM
Ok sorry, how about aliens. I like aliens to.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2Fspacealiern.jpg&hash=15af7adf2d19b546183929bd0d90787085e22239)
How about Jar Jar Binks. I like him, hes my best friend.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi11.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fa191%2Fcynthiag932%2FjarjarBust.jpg&hash=f212664a515e900598edd9bcdd5b9b1350639d3f)
Cindy
Posted on: November 13, 2007, 09:56:22 PM
This was Just an interlude, you may now continue on with subject at hand, thank you.
Cindy
Before anyone gets their knickers in a knot... And I'll be blunt.
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 03:04:04 PM
Quote from: Kate on November 13, 2007, 02:11:45 PM
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man ...
... I think that it's exactly when people DO focus on "being a woman" that we end up with stereotypes and caricatures...
~Kate~
Only when they are obviously not and try to re-invent, re-define, re-model, and re-whatever else a woman is so that they are comfortable with what they are. I would also say that this type of person is not TS either but something else. If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman, and therefore one should concentrate on living accordingly.
Yep I'm a strong believer in there only being two genders, heresy to some but for me it's what I believe.
Steph
Nowhere in my post did mention any group, androgyne or otherwise. Too often we get folks who join the site and immediately try to redefine what women or men are to fit their own purpose and then expect everyone else to accept them as a man or woman. Note that I said man or woman, not androgyne. I also did not say that someone was a figment of anyones imagination nor did I say that androgynes are here for decoration. in fact when the issue of creating a forum for androgynes was being discussed by staff I was one of those who recommended it.
I hold firm to my belief that there a two genders - male and female - if it ruffles feathers then I apologize as I believe that everyone has the right to be who or what they believe themselves to be, there are sjust ome things in this world that I hold true just like I do not believe in any form of a god. Just my opinion is all.
Steph
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 10:15:23 PM
Nowhere in my post did mention any group, androgyne or otherwise. Too often we get folks who join the site and immediately try to redefine what women or men are to fit their own purpose and then expect everyone else to accept them as a man or woman. Note that I said man or woman, not androgyne. I also did not say that someone was a figment of anyones imagination nor did I say that androgynes are here for decoration. in fact when the issue of creating a forum for androgynes was being discussed by staff I was one of those who recommended it.
You did however imply that non-binary identified people "obviously" couldn't have GID, which is rather offensive to those of us that have suffered (or are suffering) from it.
Quote from: Rachael on November 13, 2007, 11:23:00 AM
what beliegh tactfully misses out, is those were m2fs :P
R :police:
Many years ago, I ran in to someone once that I thought was just starting out, pre-HRT, pre-everything only to find out they'd been post op for several YEARS.
OMG...
Posted on: November 14, 2007, 04:26:32 AM
Quote from: Kate on November 13, 2007, 02:11:45 PM
Or... maybe just focus more on being themselves, and let the chips fall where they may? I figure I'm Kate first, who *incidentally* also happens to be a woman. I think that it's exactly when people DO focus on "being a woman" that we end up with stereotypes and caricatures...
~Kate~
If this makes sense, I think on a lot of levels, we are who we were meant to be. Like Kate was saying, basing passing on achieving all the stereotypes is the fastest way to do just the opposite - not pass.
I thought this whole thing was about being yourself. I'm a big talker since I'm not full time, but passing for me is just being able to exist in a way that makes me happy. If I can go unnoticed, I'll be satisfied with that.
Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 03:25:06 AM
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 10:15:23 PM
Nowhere in my post did mention any group, androgyne or otherwise. Too often we get folks who join the site and immediately try to redefine what women or men are to fit their own purpose and then expect everyone else to accept them as a man or woman. Note that I said man or woman, not androgyne. I also did not say that someone was a figment of anyones imagination nor did I say that androgynes are here for decoration. in fact when the issue of creating a forum for androgynes was being discussed by staff I was one of those who recommended it.
You did however imply that non-binary identified people "obviously" couldn't have GID, which is rather offensive to those of us that have suffered (or are suffering) from it.
Er I did not imply anything. I said that "...If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman." No implications there as I believe there are only two genders.
Steph
Hi I had a post here I just deleted, the problem has been rectified. The blue sky witch rides her broom once more into the setting sun in the western sky.
Cindy
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 04:20:28 AM
Er I did not imply anything. I said that "...If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman." No implications there as I believe there are only two genders.
Steph
Fair point. Shall I then interpret your post as meaning that you think I'm crazy and misguided?
Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 04:23:42 AM
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 04:20:28 AM
Er I did not imply anything. I said that "...If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman." No implications there as I believe there are only two genders.
Steph
Fair point. Shall I then interpret your post as meaning that you think I'm crazy and misguided?
Personally, in my mind is that there are two points on a line and there are many steps in between both of them.
I am an androgyne. And i would love to live in a world without gender, I dislike the gender binary, it's pointless, and in my travels i have seen more than just man or woman.
I present as female, as for me it's better than been male, picked one of the two, for me it's a happy place, and socially it's easier. and not matter what i do my body will never be female, it will always be sorta half way, and i'm happy with that.
~I.V.
Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 04:23:42 AM
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 04:20:28 AM
Er I did not imply anything. I said that "...If you have been diagnosed with GID then then you are obviously either a man or a woman." No implications there as I believe there are only two genders.
Steph
Steph
Fair point. Shall I then interpret your post as meaning that you think I'm crazy and misguided?
Again I have not said anywhere that anyone who does not believe that there are only two genders are crazy or misguided. However readers are certainly free to interpret anything that is written in these forums. We all have beliefs that we hold true. Just as christians believe in a god of some kind, I do not. I don't think those people are crazy or misguided, just as I do not think that androgynes are crazy or missguided, for who is to say that I'm right, and for that matter who is to say that I'm not. I'm simply stating my beliefs.
Steph
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R :police:
Quote
No not at all. We all have beliefs that we hold true. Just as christians believe in a god of some kind, I do not. I don't think they are crazy or misguided, for who is to say that I'm right. I'm simply stating my beliefs.
But what you are saying is you don't believe we're real.
Which is your prerogative, you're allowed to believe what you want.
But it stings to be told by an administrator of a transgendered support website that your gender identity doesn't exist... thats all...
Posted on: November 14, 2007, 06:25:26 AM
Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R :police:
Sharpness aside, Rachael has a good point that GID is just dysphoria with your present physical (sex ;) )
Nice weaseling Steph
It seems some people think it's perfectly ok to say anything if it's preceded or followed by "in my opinion" or "I believe". If you believe something, that inherently means you believe that the converse is untrue.
If you believe there are only two genders then you MUST believe I am misguided to believe otherwise. That's just how logic works...
Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R :police:
And for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.
Steph
Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 05:30:14 AM
Nice weaseling Steph
It seems some people think it's perfectly ok to say anything if it's preceded or followed by "in my opinion" or "I believe". If you believe something, that inherently means you believe that the converse is untrue.
If you believe there are only two genders then you MUST believe I am misguided to believe otherwise. That's just how logic works...
I've heard prefacing "in my opinion" or "I believe" some pretty nasty points of view.
and usually these were directed at me.
~I.V.
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:34:28 AM
Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R :police:
And for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.
Steph
you dont seem to be getting this... saying there are only black an white cars in the world, the statement 'this car doesnt belive itself to be black, makes it nothing
till expressed white...
if youare gender dysphoric
you simply dont feel your current form is you, there is NO PRESUMPTION OF ANY OTHER GENDER.
and step. im somewhat upset to hear someone of your rank being so closed minded...
hitler 'BELIVED' in his 'oppinion' that the jews needed to be exterminated....
oppinion is strong stuff
R :police:
OK...
The fact that I am an Administrator here doesn't mean that I have to believe that everyone else's beliefs are true. It means that I will support their beliefs regardless of whether I believe the same or not, and I will ensure that they are treated with respect and dignity just as everyone else. My support of "She males" on this site for example refers. I am entitled to my beliefs and I have simply stated them here to support an opinion on this topic.
Now if we need to discuss this further it should be taken to a new topic as this conversation is detracting from the original.
Respectfully yours
Steph
what are ->-bleeped-<-s to do with anything? and you should atleast show some RESPECT.... ->-bleeped-<-s is a porn industry term, and you know better than that,
please, step down from the JCB maam...
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:46:14 AM
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:34:28 AM
Quote from: Rachael on November 14, 2007, 05:21:17 AM
GID simply says you have dysphoria with your present physical gender, NOT what the other is.... and quoting yourself when wrong isnt going to change that...
R :police:
And for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.
Steph
you dont seem to be getting this... saying there are only black an white cars in the world, the statement 'this car doesnt belive itself to be black, makes it nothing
till expressed white...
if youare gender dysphoric
you simply dont feel your current form is you, there is NO PRESUMPTION OF ANY OTHER GENDER.
and step. im somewhat upset to hear someone of your rank being so closed minded...
hitler 'BELIVED' in his 'oppinion' that the jews needed to be exterminated....
oppinion is strong stuff
R :police:
And comparing me to Adolf Hitler is truly hurtful. I have had to endure and suffer much for my beliefs and I stand by them. I don't have to "Get it" I know what I believe . However I respect what others may believe.
Steph
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 06:01:40 AM
And comparing me to Adolf Hitler is truly hurtful. I have had to endure and suffer much for my beliefs and I stand by them. I don't have to "Get it" I know what I believe . However I respect what others may believe.
Steph
Then you probably know how the non-binaries feel reading this thread...
agreed. your hurting non binaries with your statements...
i personaly feel im a female, in the binary sense, but im willing to accept female as a position on a spectrum to be inclusive, my id isnt compromised, and thiers is accepted, your statements are JUST as hurtful as what you found offensive.
steph, im jewish, i know how cutting hitler comments can be, but i feel its aprorpriate to display how 'oppinion' can cause massive pain, even if you state it as an opinion...
R :police:
Hi Ivy
That a
"BINGO!"QuoteI present as female, as for me it's better than been male, picked one of the two, for me it's a happy place, and socially it's easier. and not matter what i do my body will never be female, it will always be sorta half way, and I'm happy with that.
~
I couldn't agree more. It has been a great relief for me when I discovered what androgyne means.
I have no interest in the duality of either sex and gender, but I still so love it when my soul mate Wing Walker caresses and hugs me. I just feel so secure I don't know what I would do without her.
Before I met her I was, well, like stuck in a sargasso sea, nearly died of loneliness so I didn't waste any time beating a path to my soul mate when she offered herself to me.
Cindy
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man (as the case maybe). My transsexuality was simply the journey, it's my womanhood that counts and this woman does not have a dick. Chicks with dicks are seen as perverse and unnatural by society and I doubt very much that this perception will ever change. It's the old "Acceptance" or "Completely passing" argument again.
Steph
I totally disagree with you, I think people who look like perverse men in frocks look far worse and far less female than the very stunning 'chicks with dicks'. To me the 'chicks with dicks' I've seen and met look far less perverse than the men who look like men wearing a skirt, no matter if they have had their genitalia removed or not.
I don't see how you could put very attractive looking women down just because they still have their genitalia.....and I don't think any of us here are in a position to make these kind of judgements.
QuoteAnd for someone who believes that there are only two genders it means that if that person is dysphoric over their present gender then they must be the opposite gender.
Steph
Many years ago I was diagnosed as having GID and set out on the TS path to transition. I've felt intense pain and suffering from discomfort of my birth gender. What I've discovered is that for me, just because I wasn't male didn't mean that I absolutely must be female. Trying to shoehorn myself into the opposite gender didn't fit either. Gender is amazingly diverse... even as I communicate with other androgynes/genderqueers/twospirits/etc here I see how differently we each experience gender.
I guess we'll just have to respectfully agree to disagree on this.
zythyra
Quote from: Berliegh on November 14, 2007, 06:27:21 AM
I totally disagree with you, I think people who look like perverse men in frocks look far worse and far less female than the very stunning 'chicks with dicks'. To me the 'chicks with dicks' I've seen and met look far less perverse than the men who look like men wearing a skirt, no matter if they have had their genitalia removed or not.
I don't see how you could put very attractive looking women down just because they still have their genitalia.....and I don't think any of us here are in a position to make these kind of judgements.
I think a lot of people see it this way. Being attractive gets you a long way, especially if you're a woman. (Passability and attractiveness aren't the same I know, but most people view a transwoman who doesn't pass as unattractive). Non-ops and pre-ops who look and act feminine will be treated better than a poorly passing post-op...
It's sad that people place so much importance on attractiveness, but they do...
indeed....
beauty gets you EVERYWHERE....
the pre ops are worse than post ops rubbish that circles trans forums and commnities is simply, a 'i have more money than you, you suck'
R :police:
OK, people, I really think it's time for this. Hate to bring out the heavy artillery, but:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.weaselcircus.com%2Ffunnypics%2Fchillpill.jpg&hash=eb85faef21c76e40647adb09a38180c0ae960ab5)
It looks to me like some people I respect greatly are getting way too serious about this.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
chill is all well and good, but when people start denying the existance of gender identities other than thier own, ESPECIALLY STAFF. I dont think there is a need for chill, but accountability.
R :police:
Be gentle ladies and gentlemen...
Quote from: Susan on November 14, 2007, 07:08:03 AM
Be gentle ladies and gentlemen...
Is this a free pass for the rest of us? ;) ;D
Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 06:36:32 AM
Quote from: Berliegh on November 14, 2007, 06:27:21 AM
I totally disagree with you, I think people who look like perverse men in frocks look far worse and far less female than the very stunning 'chicks with dicks'. To me the 'chicks with dicks' I've seen and met look far less perverse than the men who look like men wearing a skirt, no matter if they have had their genitalia removed or not.
I don't see how you could put very attractive looking women down just because they still have their genitalia.....and I don't think any of us here are in a position to make these kind of judgements.
I think a lot of people see it this way. Being attractive gets you a long way, especially if you're a woman. (Passability and attractiveness aren't the same I know, but most people view a transwoman who doesn't pass as unattractive). Non-ops and pre-ops who look and act feminine will be treated better than a poorly passing post-op...
It's sad that people place so much importance on attractiveness, but they do...
You miss the point, Steph said 'She males' were perverse and I disagreed with that. They are no more perverse than we are and I don't think we should make those kind of judgements. I have a 'she male' or chick with a dick' who stays with me and she looks every bit a woman than most girls I've seen down the high street. Her reasons for not wanting GRS are both medical based and personal and I'm angry that she should be judged and belittled in this way.
im currently one of those 'chicks with dicks', i likely will be fore many years thanks to the nhs, i want grs,but i wont be able to get it. and I DARE anyone to tell me im any less than ANYONE... especially the postops who like to crow about being better... you know who you are. That word is disgusting steph, and utterly WRONG coming from an admin.
R :police:
Quote from: Berliegh on November 14, 2007, 08:08:21 AM
You miss the point, Steph said 'She males' were perverse and I disagreed with that. They are no more perverse than we are and I don't think we should make those kind of judgements. I have a 'she male' or chick with a dick' who stays with me and she looks every bit a woman than most girls I've seen down the high street. Her reasons for not wanting GRS are both medical based and personal and I'm angry that she should be judged and belittled in this way.
Doh! Yeah I missed the point... Now I've caught up I agree with you entirely :)
I did not say that She males are perverse. What I did say was:
QuoteMy support of "She males" on this site for example refers. I am entitled to my beliefs and I have simply stated them here to support an opinion on this topic.
No where have I said that She males are perverse.
I beleive that there are two genders. There are others who beleive in a third gender. We all have the right to our opinions, and my stating that I beleive in the two gender system is not meant as an insult to anyone.
Steph
Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 07:27:01 AM
Is this a free pass for the rest of us? ;) ;D
LOL!
There are fringe benefits to being androgyne or other 8)
y2gen
Quote from: Andra on November 14, 2007, 05:30:14 AM
Nice weaseling Steph
It seems some people think it's perfectly ok to say anything if it's preceded or followed by "in my opinion" or "I believe". If you believe something, that inherently means you believe that the converse is untrue.
If you believe there are only two genders then you MUST believe I am misguided to believe otherwise. That's just how logic works...
I see where you're coming from, but I think that's overstating it. Just becuase I believe in one thing, while I suppose implies that I believe the opposite is false, I don't think someone is misguided for not believing as I do.
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 08:32:47 AM
I did not say that She males are perverse. What I did say was:
QuoteMy support of "She males" on this site for example refers. I am entitled to my beliefs and I have simply stated them here to support an opinion on this topic.
No where have I said that She males are perverse.
I beleive that there are two genders. There are others who beleive in a third gender. We all have the right to our opinions, and my stating that I beleive in the two gender system is not meant as an insult to anyone.
Steph
Oh no, not the ->-bleeped-<-s topic again. (https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg17.exs.cx%2Fimg17%2F9369%2Fh4pmad.gif&hash=564c94b1d87d29157382763c0409c86c72c13a54)
Personally, I have known Steph long enough to know that she would never try to insist that everyone has to agree with her on this or any other issue. I really think it is a mark of maturity to agree to disagree on some things.
As far as I can tell staff are not required to pass any certain test with respect to their beliefs in order to be staff here. The fact that you may disagree with her is not a reason for some kind of sanction, just because she is staff. I don't happen to agree with everything Steph (or anyone else for that matter) says, but she has been around the block more than most of us here, and I certainly respect her right to have opinions. In my book, she's more than earned it.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fganjataz.com%2F01smileys%2Fimages%2Fsmileys%2FloopyBlonde-blinking.gif&hash=4545ddf8251cf9c32ae6074d56e48bc34a755857)Kristi
It is unfortunate that my words are being misconstrued and miss quoted.
I in no-way indicated that I have any disdain for "She males". the term may be disgusting for some, but there are members of this site who refer to themselves as "She males" and they are fully allowed to feel that way and are equally entitled to the support this site gives, as anyone else.
Steph
I have moved to the androgyne thread about six posts ago. It makes more sense there then it does here lately. Nice folks there to.
Cindy
Steph said that "she-males" were seen as perverse by some. That is a fact. As a matter of fact, all of us are seen as perverse by some.
Let me add that genitals do not determine sex, I didn't suddenly "become a woman" when I had SRS. I have always been female.
sorry to bust your bubble melissa, but we wernt talking about you....
this isnt one person, this isnt one direction, its sweeping statements made by someone who should at best, be careful with her words, and consider her position before giving her full opinion. Yes, she has a right to it, but there are 1 million better and more diplomatic ways to phrase it to NOT cause offense.
R :police:
Quote from: ivy on November 14, 2007, 06:00:41 AM
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:53:47 AM
"She males"
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:53:47 AM
"She males"
Quote from: Steph on November 14, 2007, 05:53:47 AM
"She males"
ugh, that's a hideous porn term and one i find quite disgusting, and on a support site.
~I.V.
Please note that there are those who identify as '->-bleeped-<-s' and proud to be so. I believe this is the group Steph was referring to.
Posted on: November 14, 2007, 02:29:39 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on November 14, 2007, 06:27:21 AM
Quote from: Steph on November 13, 2007, 12:21:36 PM
I personally believe that folks need to concentrate less on being transsexual and more on being a woman/man (as the case maybe). My transsexuality was simply the journey, it's my womanhood that counts and this woman does not have a dick. Chicks with dicks are seen as perverse and unnatural by society and I doubt very much that this perception will ever change. It's the old "Acceptance" or "Completely passing" argument again.
Steph
I totally disagree with you, I think people who look like perverse men in frocks look far worse and far less female than the very stunning 'chicks with dicks'. To me the 'chicks with dicks' I've seen and met look far less perverse than the men who look like men wearing a skirt, no matter if they have had their genitalia removed or not.
I don't see how you could put very attractive looking women down just because they still have their genitalia.....and I don't think any of us here are in a position to make these kind of judgements.
To be fair, Steph wasn't saying
she felt anyone looked perverse, but that
society feels that way. Which is true. Anything outside the norm is seen as unnatural and perverse.
why the hell did she bring it up in the first place? we were discussing her dismissal of non binary genders....
R :police:
All this bickering back and forth, kind of reminds me when I was on the Human Rights Commission and trying to get Gender Identity into our ordinance. We had some young people from the university and then there was me who is older. I didn't understand all what they were talking about and I guess they were trying to get me to understand. Most of the kids were FtoM. I was older and I was MtoF. I only thought in two genders also and I was going through the transition with all those hormones and they had their hormones going to. Well, my hormones were estrogen and theirs were testosterone. I thought I was right and I compromised to them without knowing why. It took a year or two and now I understand what they mean. It doesn't mean that I still think that there are only two genders as that is what global society thinks. That is my belief also. I don't think there is a third gender, but a blending of the two to make some of us believe there is a third. This blending can be either physical (intersexed) or mental. In both we are truely who we are. "This is my opinion" It is not written in stone or anything else.
Sheila
The problem I have with third gendering is that there are people who want to lump trans woman into a third gender and that I will not accept under any terms. We also need to let go of the false concept of "opposite sex." The sexes are no way opposite except in the male construct of thinking in terms of genitals defining gender and sex. Like when you shop for hardware and electronics and connectors or referred to as male and female.
As far as what Steph said, I fail to see why people get so worked up over what anyone here thinks, moderator or not. It is her opinion and she is entitled to it. I doubt that she was trying to hurt anyone's feelings.
QuoteMost of the kids were FtoM. I was older and I was MtoF.
Mostly FtMs, that is normal. A lot of MtFs do not feel welcome in groups dominated by FtMs. That could be the topic of another thread.
Quote from: melissa90299 on November 14, 2007, 09:10:48 AM
Let me add that genitals do not determine sex, I didn't suddenly "become a woman" when I had SRS. I have always been female.
Actually genitals DO determine -SEX- ... Your mind/soul/being(however you wish to word this) determines your -GENDER-..
You are a woman, that hasn't changed, your GENDER did not change. When you have/had SRS your SEX will/did change. (to match your gender)
Sex and Gender are different.
Quote from: melissa90299 on November 14, 2007, 01:28:54 PM
The problem I have with third gendering is that there are people who want to lump trans woman into a third gender and that I will not accept under any terms. We also need to let go of the false concept of "opposite sex." The sexes are no way opposite except in the male construct of thinking in terms of genitals defining gender and sex. Like when you shop for hardware and electronics and connectors or referred to as male and female.
I don't necessarily disagree with you about your 'opposite sex' point, it's an interesting point really.. But I think it's a bit harsh to deny the existence of my gender identity because some people (not me) have attempted to lump you in with that 'category'. I don't think any of the non-binary identifying people I know would lump anyone into any category, we're a very accepting group of people, we just ask for the same favor in return.
It'd be about the same thing for me to say "I don't believe in women because people think I'm a woman all the time and I will not accept that under any terms" .. sounds quite ridiculous eh?
I have locked this topic, I am ashamed those who attempted to make this into so much more than it was. I also feel that this continuing ->-bleeped-<- debate has the potential to divide the community and that is something I will not allow to happen. I strongly suggest that you do not make me make this a rule.
There are only two sexes, there I said it. Bad me right? Wrong. Notice I specified sex, not gender! For society sex is and always will be binary. Male, Female, Boy, Girl. We are not going to change that no matter what some of our community members might wish.
Severe GID required for GRS as defined by the medical community does not and can not apply to non-TS's. If you are a MTF transsexual then keeping a penis is not a desired option. It might not be possible to have it removed at the current time, but that doesn't stop the need to have it gone.
If you want to keep that part of your body then YOU likely are NOT a MTF Transsexual. If you feel the need to pretend that you are, we will humor you until you figure it out on your own, hopefully before it's too late... It's the same courtesy that we give TS's who wish to say they are CD. (not saying all CD's are secretly TS or anything) The ICD-10 gives us a possiblity:
Dual-role Transvestism (F64.1
has three criteria:
1.The individual wears clothes of the opposite sex in order to experience temporary membership in the opposite sex;
2.There is no sexual motivation for the cross-dressing;
3.The individual has no desire for a permanent change to the opposite sex.
->-bleeped-<-
I do not want the term used here. What Steph said specifically said was "she male". While you may think this is splitting hairs, I know Steph, she did not use it in a derogatory form. Anyone assuming that was the case, is putting their spin on Steph's use of the phrase and the negative reflection is theirs, not hers.
The word is valid, I would still prefer it not be used on this site.
Main Entry: she-male
Part of Speech: n
Definition: a genetic male who has both male and female characteristics; a male who has undergone surgical feminization
Usage: derogatory slang
Androgyny
The essence of Androgyny is the blending of gender to the point of being genderless. A person who is truly androgynous will not try to be either male or female but something in between. That brings me to the most important point. Every one of us will always be part male and part female. This is the essence of Yin-Yang. You can try to quash it but it won't work. Accepting that will make coming to terms with yourself that much easier.
I think many of the people here proclaim themselves to be androgynous are using it as a cop out. A refusal to deal with their gender issues. Only time will tell if I am right or not.
That doesn't mean I can't offer people who identify as Androgynes a place for support. But at the same time by offering the support area I don't give up the right to have my own opinions on the matter. Steph is entitled to that same courtesy. I for the most part keep them to my self, but it's not required.
Community Definitions
These are some of the terms used by our community as they apply to this site. I hope that you find them acceptable. If not then I encourage you to either find another site more to your liking, or start your own.
Transgender: an inclusive umbrella term which covers anyone who transcends their birth gender for any reason. This includes but is not limited to Androgynies, Crossdressers, Drag kings, Drag queens, Intersexuals, Transsexuals, and ->-bleeped-<-s.
Androgyne: a person who does not fit cleanly into the typical gender roles of their society. Androgyne have a unique gender identity which is not of the traditional genders of male or female. Androgyne may identify as beyond gender, between genders, moving across genders, entirely genderless, and as any combination or all of these.
Crossdresser: a person wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally no sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.
Drag kings: performers, usually gay women or transgendered men - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the male gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag kings often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.
Drag queens: performers, usually gay men or transgendered women - who dress in "drag," clothing associated with the female gender, usually highly exaggerated versions thereof. Drag queens often do drag to perform, singing or lip-syncing and dancing, participating in events such as gay pride parades, cabarets, discotheques, and other celebrations and venues.
Intersexual: a person born with the full or partial sex organs of both sexes; with underdeveloped or ambiguous sex organs; a sex chromosome karyotype other than XX or XY; or sex hormone receptor problems which prevent normal absorption of Estrogen or Androgens. Intersexual persons may seek to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.
Significant other: for the purpose of this site, someone close to a person who is transgender. This may be a mother, father, son, daughter, sister, brother, family member, husband, wife, girlfriend, boyfriend, or friend.
Transsexual: a person who is mentally one gender, but has the body of the other. They desire to live and be accepted as a member of the mental gender, this is generally accompanied by the strong desire to make their body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatments.
->-bleeped-<-: a person who wears the clothing of the opposite gender, and has no desire to permanently change their sex. There is generally a strong sexual motivation for the cross-dressing.