I have an idea, I want to start transitioning, but I don't want people to think that I am. I rather tell them I have a medical condition that is causing my hormones to act up. That way people will just think, "oh-poor you", and I can continue to transition without people thinking ill of me.
This is because I work in a prejudice environment, and my job is very important... so I would still dress and act masculine.
What do you think of this idea?
Shame loves secrets, and that's something all of us can relate to. Maybe it's time for a new job.
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Depending on what you look like and how your react to HRT, there could be a limited amount of time before people start to ask questions. People who have tried this often get glances that tell them they are in male fail or the bolder may ask. You need to have a fall back plan that will cover the worst possible case should it happen.
A second consideration is if you give a specific medical condition, you will be lying so it's best to wait until asked and then just say you are on a medication and you prefer not to talk about your medical condition at this time.
Quote from: Gertrude on April 09, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
Shame loves secrets, and that's something all of us can relate to. Maybe it's time for a new job.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I rather postpone transitioning than quit my job at the moment.
Quote from: Dena on April 09, 2017, 05:58:06 PM
Depending on what you look like and how your react to HRT, there could be a limited amount of time before people start to ask questions. People who have tried this often get glances that tell them they are in male fail or the bolder may ask. You need to have a fall back plan that will cover the worst possible case should it happen.
A second consideration is if you give a specific medical condition, you will be lying so it's best to wait until asked and then just say you are on a medication and you prefer not to talk about your medical condition at this time.
That's a good one. People will come up with their own conclusions with obscurity, and that would be a personal matter to begin with. People will greatly assume it's a medical condition if I really try to look masculine.
Quote from: Wild Flower on April 09, 2017, 06:08:48 PM
I rather postpone transitioning than quit my job at the moment.
I implied get a new one. I don't know where you live,but there has to be somewhere better.
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Quote from: Wild Flower on April 09, 2017, 06:10:39 PM
That's a good one. People will come up with their own conclusions with obscurity, and that would be a personal matter to begin with. People will greatly assume it's a medical condition if I really try to look masculine.
Jennifer Finney Boylan went through something similar in that she transitioned to some degree before telling work, but she worked in a very liberal place. People thought she had cancer, but she didn't lie, just didn't disclose until the following semester. At some point the cat will be out of the bag and you'll not want to be in male mode. What then? Sooner or later you have to disclose or live a double life which probably won't be much of an improvement. Like Dena said, have a plan and backup plan. Question though, what would you do if someone prejudiced from work saw you outside of work en femme? This reminds me of bosom buddies. :)
Good luck no matter what you decide to do.
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Quote from: Gertrude on April 09, 2017, 06:20:38 PM
Jennifer Finney Boylan went through something similar in that she transitioned to some degree before telling work, but she worked in a very liberal place. People thought she had cancer, but she didn't lie, just didn't disclose until the following semester. At some point the cat will be out of the bag and you'll not want to be in male mode. What then? Sooner or later you have to disclose or live a double life which probably won't be much of an improvement. Like Dena said, have a plan and backup plan. Question though, what would you do if someone prejudiced from work saw you outside of work en femme? This reminds me of bosom buddies. :)
Good luck no matter what you decide to do.
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Since you word it as "question", I'll answer to the best of my ability. I don't ever want to be full on em femme, I don't want to be a label as "prissy" *that's the best word to describe it without mentioning derogative words*. I just want my hormones to feel right, my body to feel feminine, but I can leave makeup/clothing behind, that's not essential to me. I also prefer bisexual men//masculine-dominant women on a "romantic" level, so gay and straight men can take a hike when it comes to me. I'm not bisexual though, just attracted to masculinity.
I don't mind being transgender anymore (on a personal level), I kind of embrace being male and being woman. I am not delusional either though, since I rather be cisgender woman, but in all honesty, I don't care if the public sees me as a woman, man, transgender... I'm just me. I don't care about "feminine beauty" either. That requires too much effort for something that I would never truly have. "Androgynous beauty" seems easier. I don't have to be perfect that way.
I'm a demiwoman, so it's like not essential for me to look like a complete woman either.
I also don't mind looking like an androgynous woman either (not butch; androgynous woman, there is a difference).
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b7/fc/66/b7fc66e609a191848caa7a6f3593fbad.jpg)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/b8/aa/c9/b8aac962304cfa93e00e52b81886a353.jpg)
I don't want to label it as being a freak, but I don't care if I have facial hair or not. I'm not genderqueer (mentally), but if my image suggest that, than totally fine with it.
Just seems like avoidance to me. Seems to be a plan where you get the get the cake and then get to eat it too. Transition is not a free ride - it comes at a price, a price you don't seem actually seem prepared to pay at the moment.
As an aside, androgyny requires just as much effort as anything else..
If you're only interested in the physical/emotional effects of hormones and not in the social or legal aspects of becoming a woman, I'd think about trying to get on them and just say nothing. In my experience, people at work either don't pay as much attention to what you're doing or don't want to talk about it, at least until changes become more prominent.
One way to approach this is to worry less about a cover story and more about doing what you want. It's really none of anyone's business but yours and "Oh? You think? Maybe I should have that checked out" is as good a response as some elaborate ruse. But the most important thing is you doing what you want, so make sure you know what that is. Sounds like you do.
Erin
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 10, 2017, 04:17:40 AM
Just seems like avoidance to me. Seems to be a plan where you get the get the cake and then get to eat it too. Transition is not a free ride - it comes at a price, a price you don't seem actually seem prepared to pay at the moment.
As an aside, androgyny requires just as much effort as anything else..
yeah I gotta kinda agree. like I mean you do you, man. if only transitioning hormonally and not socially is what you want and you think that will actually work for you, by all means do it. I just knew someone before that said some similar things and the more I actually pressed them about it, the more it became apparent a lot of it was motivated by denial and self-loathing. This "demi-woman" stuff is particularly concerning. I mean if that's how you see yourself, but being a trans woman is not some less-than gray area. I know early in my transition I definitely tried more than once to just come up with "the easy way" to do it, but nothing that's really going to help you is going to be easy. I don't want to presume about you though, I realize it may sound that way.
anyway, it really depends on your build and overall appearance beforehand whether people will notice you're taking hormones. some people can definitely pull that off and some definitely can't
Quote from: Draculess on April 10, 2017, 08:38:13 AM
I know early in my transition I definitely tried more than once to just come up with "the easy way" to do it, but nothing that's really going to help you is going to be easy.
It's called bargaining and it's one of the 5 stages we have to go thru until we get to the last step. Acceptance.
So I did the same sorta. I told people that I was diagnosed with Gender Dysphoria. Then explain that g.d. Is the clinical diagnosis for people who are transgender.
People then understood it was a medical thing ("diagnosis") and accepted it.
Eventually you'll need to fill in the blanks of you condition. Bit your can do that on your timeline.
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I can relate to Wild Flower on most of what she described. At 68 years old I couldn't put off HRT any longer, had denied myself my entire life with serious consequences my entire life, mostly alone, depressed and feeling completely hopeless and trapped. I've never had a major interest in dressing female and that's no doubt for the good. At 6'3", shoulders that make me look like an NFL linebacker, size 13 shoe and hands that easily palm a basketball plus other male dominate features no amount of clothes, makeup, breasts etc is going to make me look like anything other than a man in women's clothes. Living in tiny town Arkansas going around looking like a man in women's clothes would no doubt be unhealthy at the least.
Several years ago I was on HRT for 6 months, developed small breasts and did what I could to convince myself that this would have to do. Kinda worked for a few years. This year I had to admit I needed to do something. Found a great counselor and MD and went back on HRT. Breast development has been faster than anticipated with a 6 month head start. This summer I am scheduled for Orchiectomy.
My game plan is much like Wild Flower's, I'll continue to dress male which is fine with me and offer up no more information to anyone else than needed. Luckily I'm retired so that helps a bunch. I'll do what I need to to hide the breasts and carry on the best I can. I don't pretend to know what will be in a couple more years but I'll be in my 70's then. SRS is out of the question if no other reason than money. Fixed income and all that. I may well need to once again stop HRT but for now it's HRT and the Orchiectomy. Life is already far better on many counts.
So yeah I can relate to Wild Flower. Not everybody needs to be or is capable of being the hottest chic in the bar. Male clothes, grateful for the wondrous changes I am finally accomplishing and carry on.
Quote from: Jane Emily on April 10, 2017, 10:21:06 AM
It's called bargaining and it's one of the 5 stages we have to go thru until we get to the last step. Acceptance.
I agree.
Wild Flower, you're talking about actively living a lie. Most of us are here because we got sick of doing that.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 10, 2017, 08:25:09 PM
I agree.
Wild Flower, you're talking about actively living a lie. Most of us are here because we got sick of doing that.
Hugs, Devlyn
Possibly so, I sure don't claim to know everything. I do claim to know about me and for some of us that lie is also reality. Some things are simply not doable on many counts. Some of us do the best we can and my ultimate goal is not to pass in public. That well down the list from what can be. Reality. I've learned over the years there will be far less grief if I accept reality and do the best I can today.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 10, 2017, 08:25:09 PM
you're talking about actively living a lie. Most of us are here because we got sick of doing that.
Hugs, Devlyn
This.
If you'd rather put off HRT than change your job then just do that: put off tranition. Seems the best and eaisest option.
I don't know you but from the limited info on offer I get the impression you're either avoiding the full effects of transition or being a bit pie-in-the-sky and naive about it. Plus you'll just be swapping one lie (trans-in-waiting) for another (trans-in-hiding). If you're lucky enough to get good breast development then you're gonna struggle to hide it and binding growing breasts for the most of the time is not going to be a good idea. Then there's the fact that HRT may not make you feel any better/different than you do now.
Each to their own any everything but I just get the impression you're not ready to transition.
This most definitely. Sooner or later your option will result in questions that you won't have a response for that is covered by what you said. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: Dena on April 09, 2017, 05:58:06 PM
Depending on what you look like and how your react to HRT, there could be a limited amount of time before people start to ask questions. People who have tried this often get glances that tell them they are in male fail or the bolder may ask. You need to have a fall back plan that will cover the worst possible case should it happen.
A second consideration is if you give a specific medical condition, you will be lying so it's best to wait until asked and then just say you are on a medication and you prefer not to talk about your medical condition at this time.
Um. There's a lot of generalizing in this thread, and some of it sounds not all that accepting of some folks.
I am transitioning, and for me it is definitely a medical issue. I have told people that up front, including my primary diagnosis, which is gender dysphoria. It is complicated by some neuroendocrine problems, including a prolactinoma, associated with sustained biochemical stress and testosterone exposure to tissues that really don't like that.
My apologies in advance if this offends anyone. In calling this a medical condition, I refer only to myself, and make no claim or suggestion that there is or is not a medical condition related to or causative of another's transition. I specifically do not claim a medical cause makes a particular transition more or less valid. We each have our own reasons that drive our need to transition, and all are valid. I do not think anyone would undertake and persist in the very difficult task of transition without a very strong motivation.
When I have had to explain MY transition, this is the document that I generally use:
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/my-old-friends-michelle-paquette
My wife will not accept any degree of voluntary transition. However, she would be accepting of anything which was medically necessary or that appeared to be related to a medical condition.
Just thinking out loud but for me mental security, feeling of being at peace and mental over all well being is certainly a medical issue. I denied myself most of my life, I'm nearly 69, not nearly so much because I wanted or needed to deny but because through most of my life the help that is available today simply didn't exist. I got to the point that if I didn't find help and find it now it was rubber room time.
I am now on HRT and am scheduled for an orchi this summer. I am more mentally at peace and feel better physically than I ever thought possible. So Mac1, have you tried to discuss the mental aspects with your wife? There is so much more to this than simply growing breasts and having the two nightmares removed. Mental health is incredibly important.
I didn't want to face the problems of transitioning, but I needed to do something so 8 years ago I started a medical transition, but not social. Almost no one knows I'm trans.
I started low dose HRT eventually followed by a full transitioning level. I keep a beard to hide the facial changes, and dress to hide the breasts and body shape changes. The nature of my work makes it easy to hide everything, which might not be the same for everyone. I guess your mileage may vary.
I had thought of having SRS a few years ago to help me cope with this, while not socially transitioning. A few people do it, and its not like anyone would know.
I find it quite stressful living like this. So much hiding. I feel a bit paranoid (not clinically). I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do this much longer, and I suspect I'll be socially transitioning in 2 years or so. At least I got 10 years out of it and and my goal was to buy some time, but sometimes I wish I'd not gone about it this way.
AnonyMs, I definitely understand where you are coming from. Each of us is a unique individual in a unique situation, and no one transition path fits all of us. We each have to find our own path, our own way on this journey through life.
Some paths work out better for each of us than other paths. The sharing here, in this community, can be incredibly helpful to others in deciding what might be best for themselves.
None of this is easy. There's no "Dummy's Guide to Transition" out there. I applaud everyone who is trying to find their way and is willing to share their story with the rest of us.
If it's someone I have not come out to yet. My boobs grew because I am being treated for congestive heart failure. Which is true and people have known it for 25 years. People I have come out to. Gee your boobs are sure growing. I've taken to wearing loose fitting sweatshirts or just a regular long sleeved shirt, unbuttoned. With my hair approaching shoulder length, my facial hair disappearing, and my butt fat redistributing. Along with my facial features changing it is getting harder to conceal. But I've been Dawn for eight months outwardly, inward I have always been , before that I was Dad for thirty years. I have never been Donald other than name only.. One very true thing I have learned about transition. It takes time.
Michelle, one of the problems in going off in doing your own thing is that you loose the comfort of being part of a group. You can also be more confident if you're doing the right thing when you read stories of others like yourself doing the same and hearing how it works out for them.
Luckily I'm fairly independent type and don't need much reassurance, because there's very little. I've got to that point in my life where there's very little that stops me doing what I want to do.
Hopefully I can help others by telling my story, or at least part of it. There's still plenty I don't share here. I still have a few issues.
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 14, 2017, 04:05:54 PM
Michelle, one of the problems in going off in doing your own thing is that you loose the comfort of being part of a group. You can also be more confident if you're doing the right thing when you read stories of others like yourself doing the same and hearing how it works out for them.
Luckily I'm fairly independent type and don't need much reassurance, because there's very little. I've got to that point in my life where there's very little that stops me doing what I want to do.
Hopefully I can help others by telling my story, or at least part of it. There's still plenty I don't share here. I still have a few issues.
I absolutely agree that the support and comfort of being part of a group is a good thing. I have a social group and two therapy groups I make use of.
Our sharing of stories, discussion of issues, and how we each handle problems we encounter is incredibly valuable. It's a Good Thing...
I do want to caution that just because someone else takes certain exact steps as part of their transition, that we need not take that exact same step. We may not be ready for that step, or we may need to take another alternative step. What one person does as part of a successful transition is not necessarily a template that all should follow. We each need to do what is best for ourselves. Whether we determine that from a synthesis of the experiences of others like us, or decide each step independently or with the aid of a good therapist are all valid techniques, ways we can seek our path.
I've done very little that's the same as others here have and I still don't know if that's good or bad. I'd not reccomend what I've done to others though. I don't think I'm very normal, so what works for me might cause others difficulty.
Quote from: Wild Flower on April 09, 2017, 05:48:30 PM
I want to start transitioning, but I don't want people to think that I am. I can continue to transition without people thinking ill of me. This is because I work in a prejudice environment, and my job is very important... so I would still dress and act masculine.
And what happens when you've finished your transition and, if you're lucky, you look feminine and have nice C cups? How do you explain that and maintain your job? What's the point of transition if you never plan on anyone finding out and never revealing your true self?
QuoteI rather postpone transitioning than quit my job at the moment
??? This thread seems to be visiting transitioning as a choice. I don't understand that. If there's some reason that keeps you from transitioning, IMHO transitioning is probably the wrong thing to be considering at all. :'(
So I think that your idea of postponement is excellent.
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 15, 2017, 01:52:58 AM
I've done very little that's the same as others here have and I still don't know if that's good or bad. I'd not reccomend what I've done to others though. I don't think I'm very normal, so what works for me might cause others difficulty.
I've been doing pretty much the same as you. The only difference is that I grew my hair long and don't really try to hide anything from anyone. I know I'm not normal though and I use that to my advantage. Everyone always expects the unexpected!
One thing funny happened with all that at work recently. Over the past several months I've lost 20 lbs which I think makes my chest look more prominent. One of the guys at the office asked if I'd been working out and gaining weight, LOL.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Seems like a bit of a risky strategy, but each to their own approach.
My situation is medium/low dose HRT now for a few months. I see and feel some changes. I'm not socially transitioned and I'm not sure when/how/if that's going to happen. So I present male, albeit "feminine male" or "androgynous male" or something that is not quite mainstream male. Long hair, clean shaven always, women's jeans/capris, shoes. Male tops, generally. I have boobs - I don't go out of my way to emphasize them in public. Not huge but larger than a regular guy/dude should have. Most of my friends are female. I only male-fail if someone is a distinctly different ethnicity (like we were on a cruise and the crew - mostly Philipino - called us ladies all the time - liked that)
My policy is that if I'm ever asked directly, I will just admit it: that I'm Transgender, under care, but haven't transitioned yet. No one has asked in the 4-5 years it's been since I've let myself become more feminine publicly.
I don't think it's the people you see everyday that will comment or take notice, it's the ones that see you every once in a while (especially if they've known you for a long time) that will double take or comment. This is ok with me. I mean eventually I will come out to everyone - even if I'm not fully transitioned.
Good luck to you.
Quote from: Michelle_P on April 13, 2017, 12:52:44 AM
Um. There's a lot of generalizing in this thread, and some of it sounds not all that accepting of some folks.
I agree with that. Perhaps the opposition in this thread comes from the word "transition". Perhaps some believe that if others goals achievable or not aren't exactly the same as their own they aren't transgender or aren't ready to begin. Perhaps "transition" has a different meaning with different goals to some. I can relate to the OP completely.
Susan not long ago started a thread with her before and after pictures. Another similar post after that, in both threads the results were stunning, dramatic results and both are beautiful ladies. Susan in the same post included an extremely pertinent statement. She said "With enough time". My situation is that I am out of time, can't deny the reality of that. If my goal were full transition and the time to achieve it was say 8 years just think, I could be the hottest 77 year old Granny lady around. Oh goodie.
One of the things I've learned from reading this forum is that there seems to be nearly as many variations to transgender as there are transgender people. One size most definitely does not fit all. What is one persons most important priority can easily be well down another's priority/reality list. From some of the reply's to the OP in this thread I have little doubt that many here have little "acceptance" of me simply because my priorities are not the same as theirs.
For me for now it's HRT and orchi, a half worn out pair of Levi's and a loose comfy shirt. That's me and I am perfectly at peace with it. What the next several years may bring assuming I still have the next several years who knows, maybe I will want to be the hottest Granny around but for now it's not even on the radar.
Quote from: jentay1367 on April 16, 2017, 12:22:57 PM
??? This thread seems to be visiting transitioning as a choice. I don't understand that.
It depends on how you look at it. The way I see it is that transition is always a choice unless someone is forcing you to do so against your will. No matter how bad your dysphoria, you still willingly seek out the therapy required and implement changes.
On a more specific level, many - including myself - have a push/pull dynamic constantly in motion. Even though we're not at the
'if I don't transition I'll kill myself' stage (and nor do we have to be) we are caught up in a whirlpool. We are sufficiently trans where transition would be a good thing but also sufficiently at ease where not transitioning isn't the end of the world, either. On top of that we are terrified of kidding ourselves, terrified of reaction, terrified of losing our loved ones, terrified of our feminine results. There's often too much in the way to prevent an automatic
'yes, I'm going for it, I have to!' mindset even though they have that calling all the same.
Deciding to transition is a very personal choice. We are often driven to transition, simply because the alternative is something we cannot bear, but there is a choice there.
In my case, I chose to live, and that meant transition, facing my severe dysphoria, depression and anxiety, and seeking medical treatment.
I would say that the majority of transgender folks I know are not transitioning. They spend some portion of their lives getting their presentation in line with their identity to some degree, what folks may call cross-dressing, and they are able to do OK. They are still transgender folks. They still question the difference between the assigned at birth gender and how they feel internally, but they have found a path that works for themselves.
The path that works for any one of us may not be appropriate for another person. Just because someone seeks a different path to address their gender identity issues does not somehow make them wrong, and I do wish more people would realize this. Not everyone needs a medical transition. Not everyone wants a medical transition. Not everyone can afford a medical transition. They are all still transgender folks, of course.
Quote from: Michelle_P on April 17, 2017, 09:16:15 AM
Deciding to transition is a very personal choice. We are often driven to transition, simply because the alternative is something we cannot bear, but there is a choice there.
In my case, I chose to live, and that meant transition, facing my severe dysphoria, depression and anxiety, and seeking medical treatment.
I would say that the majority of transgender folks I know are not transitioning. They spend some portion of their lives getting their presentation in line with their identity to some degree, what folks may call cross-dressing, and they are able to do OK. They are still transgender folks. They still question the difference between the assigned at birth gender and how they feel internally, but they have found a path that works for themselves.
The path that works for any one of us may not be appropriate for another person. Just because someone seeks a different path to address their gender identity issues does not somehow make them wrong, and I do wish more people would realize this. Not everyone needs a medical transition. Not everyone wants a medical transition. Not everyone can afford a medical transition. They are all still transgender folks, of course.
Great post, Michelle. The bold is especially pertinent as I started a thread yeterday, and linked to an article, about recognising this and not looking down on ->-bleeped-<-s and that they are TG just as TSs are but the thread got locked.
The overwhelming majority of TVs are TG. Only a minority do not have a calling/dsphoria but do it for other reasons such as role play, humiliation, stress relief, kink. Most CDs I know have gone through the same identity struggles and pondered transition, even wishing they could if only their home situations would allow.
If we exclude those cross dressing for ulterior motives then it's quite simply: all TVs and TSs are TG - but not all TVs are* TS.
*this should be 'become' but 'are' fits better within the phrase.
About 15 years ago, a co-worker of mine transitioned on the job. She was terminated within 6 months. On the plus side of her situation, she was given a generous severance package, which financed her SRS.
Yes, there are risks with transitioning on the job. We all must make the decision for ourselves. Do we or are we able to transition now or later? In my situation, I had to wait until I retired to fully transition. I had too many family obligations that took priority over myself. I finally transitioned at age 66. It is never too late for surgery as long as there are no other complicating health concerns, such as cardiac issues.
For over 50 years, I suffered in silence.
Then I took control of my own life. I am happy I did.
I guess we'd serve ourselves well to not use the word "transition" as a catch all and find more suitable adjectives for what were actually doing. Since it isn't an absolute thing and rather could mean say, just going on hrt with no intention of going further and not identifying in public as the chosen gender vs. full SRS, BA, FFS...blah..blah..bla.. and full disclosure to all and living as your chosen gender.
There's a whole lot of in between there and I see it constantly getting people into trouble here on the site. And it's not always from malicious intent. Often it's just semantics and offends some when that intent was not there. If were clearer about what our goals may be when we post we'll probably get clearer advice on the issue at hand. But to just say "transitioning" ....well it leaves a whole lot of room for assumption on the readers part.
Quote from: vicki_sixx on April 17, 2017, 07:07:48 AM
It depends on how you look at it. The way I see it is that transition is always a choice unless someone is forcing you to do so against your will. No matter how bad your dysphoria, you still willingly seek out the therapy required and implement changes.
On a more specific level, many - including myself - have a push/pull dynamic constantly in motion. Even though we're not at the 'if I don't transition I'll kill myself' stage (and nor do we have to be) we are caught up in a whirlpool. We are sufficiently trans where transition would be a good thing but also sufficiently at ease where not transitioning isn't the end of the world, either. On top of that we are terrified of kidding ourselves, terrified of reaction, terrified of losing our loved ones, terrified of our feminine results. There's often too much in the way to prevent an automatic 'yes, I'm going for it, I have to!' mindset even though they have that calling all the same.
I'm all of those things, except that I welcome the feminine changes. Spot on, otherwise.
I will say that once I saw myself with long hair and makeup, I nearly began to cry because I'd never seen myself in the mirror as close to how I feel inside as I did in that moment. It was momentous for me.
To the OP: Do as you will, but remember that one lie begins the spiral to greater lies in multitude. You may not be able to keep up with them all. Besides that, if you're set on hiding it for employment purposes, that's your business and nobody else's. Should someone notice and question it, would you then have to lie even more, or would you give hints? Or, something else, entirely? Just curious.
Quote from: SiobhánF on April 17, 2017, 11:35:18 AM
I'm all of those things, except that I welcome the feminine changes. Spot on, otherwise.
Apologies, I didn't word myself very clearly. What I meantby
'terrified of our feminine results' was that we are terrified that our results won't be feminine enough - that we'll look like some
<preconceived, self abhorred image that is unable> to pass as female.
Moderator edit: I think we know what you mean but for some people, an androgynous look that does not pass is what they want. For some, that may be the goal or enough.
Quote from: vicki_sixx on April 17, 2017, 12:39:53 PM
Apologies, I didn't word myself very clearly. What I meantby 'terrified of our feminine results' was that we are terrified that our results won't be feminine enough - that we'll look like some <preconceived, self abhorred image that is unable> to pass as female.
Moderator edit: I think we know what you mean but for some people, an androgynous look that does not pass is what they want. For some, that may be the goal or enough.
:police:
Topic is locked for some clean up.
Sorry, all. Got distracted and forgot to unlock this.
My bad.
Joanna
Joanna's tag line fits me to a T, it is absolutely perfect. "Changing to be better than I was".
For most of my life the help I needed was anywhere from not there to nearly impossible to either find or afford. Things have changed radically in recent years and I am taking advantage of it. That doesn't mean to me full transition including SRS and passing in public, the medical help came along too late for me for that but I am "Changing to be better than I was", wonderful long sought changes. Changes that tremendously lessen depression and most feelings of hopeless and trapped. At this point in my life I am grateful for these changes and improvements both mentally and physically.
I'd like to say thanks to the folks on this forum, my education on gender issues has taken a huge leap forward.
My situation was a little bit different and the OP. After I had been on a low dose of estrogen for a few years with small breasts, I actually was diagnosed with a slow but terminal form of cancer. One of the chemo drugs I was on plus the heavy dose of steroids and some of the other medication are well known to cause the side effect of breast enlargement. I thought what the heck and I increased my dosage of estrogen. I feel much better now and I don't even try to hide my fairly nicely sized and shaped breasts because it is a side effect of my medical condition. I guess I took a bad thing and turned it into a positive thing. As far as the other side effects of estrogen IE softening of skin, redistribution of body fat and gaining mor feminine facial features, they have been slow enough that no one has really made a big fuss over them.
Quote from: Dena on April 09, 2017, 05:58:06 PM
A second consideration is if you give a specific medical condition, you will be lying so it's best to wait until asked and then just say you are on a medication and you prefer not to talk about your medical condition at this time.
Personally I'd argue it is a medical condition.. not to mention for me at least, my hormones were out of wack so that was an incredibly simple reason to tell folks. Of course they'll notice if you have boobs they kinda poke out & become obvious after a while (Not to mention the whole guarding the front of your chest constantly issue while they're growing).
I'd just say do what's right / works for you.
Saying it's a medical condition implies it's a disease. Just saying.
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There are many medical conditions that are not diseases but are amenable to treatment. I'm receiving treatment for one such condition, in the form of anti-androgens and estradiol. If it wasn't a medical condition my medical insurance would not be covering part of the treatment cost.
If treatment for gender dysphoria in the form of medical transition is not treatment for a medical condition, it becomes something similar to cosmetic surgery, aesthetic medical care (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetic_medicine). Insurance plans do not typically cover aesthetic medicine.
I am sure that you could find many different groups eager to assist you in removing transgender care from being considered as treatment for a medical condition. I would hope that such attempts fail for the sake of many of us driven to transition by issues such as our extreme gender dysphoria.
I would ask that you please not judge or condemn those of us for whom our gender dysphoria, biochemical distress, and related issues have been classified as medical conditions, for which we are undergoing treatment. Many of us, including posters on this thread, really do have a diagnosed medical condition, no matter how offensive you may find the idea.
Thank you for your consideration.
I'm not condemning, just commenting on an observation, but I stand by my statement. If we are born like this, I don't accept it as a medical condition per se. It's just another expression of the human condition and it's not fully accepted by society as a whole. If it is an acquired medical condition, then I've been barking up the wrong tree. No judgements here at all, just a difference of opinion. Maybe it's just semantics, but I will say some may infer that if it's medical, it's curable and in a way that isn't what you might think. Then we'll have another round of conversion therapies that focus on different therapies. I can just see gene therapies coming our way. Again, it's just an observation. We deal with this a bit different and that's fine.
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Quote from: Gertrude on June 07, 2017, 08:30:47 PM
Saying it's a medical condition implies it's a disease. Just saying.
Four people go to the doctor's for medical care. Each has a different insurance carrier who covers their respective treatments. :
One receives a chiropractic adjustment to alleviate some soreness in their shoulder.
One has their semiannual teeth cleaning.
One received a few shots of Botox and some Restylane filler along their lip line.
One has x-rays and gets a cast applied to their broken ankle.
None of these people who receive medical care would be considered to be diseased, and the fact that a particular course of treatment that might be paid for by one insurance carrier doesn't affect whether another may or may not cover it. And a person who has sufficient resources to pay cash for all of their care could just as easily take any of the treatments without judgment, since they're paying for themselves. The idea that a treatment is or isn't covered by insurance is not a moral assessment of the procedure or treatment, nor is it a moral assessment of the patient. It's a shame that we so often conflate assessments of business risk with arbitrary assessments of people.
Erin
Quote from: Dayta on June 08, 2017, 12:11:47 AM
Four people go to the doctor's for medical care. Each has a different insurance carrier who covers their respective treatments. :
One receives a chiropractic adjustment to alleviate some soreness in their shoulder.
One has their semiannual teeth cleaning.
One received a few shots of Botox and some Restylane filler along their lip line.
One has x-rays and gets a cast applied to their broken ankle.
None of these people who receive medical care would be considered to be diseased, and the fact that a particular course of treatment that might be paid for by one insurance carrier doesn't affect whether another may or may not cover it. And a person who has sufficient resources to pay cash for all of their care could just as easily take any of the treatments without judgment, since they're paying for themselves. The idea that a treatment is or isn't covered by insurance is not a moral assessment of the procedure or treatment, nor is it a moral assessment of the patient. It's a shame that we so often conflate assessments of business risk with arbitrary assessments of people.
Erin
I'll leave it like this: nothing personal was intended on my part, but I see I touched a raw nerve. Sorry about that. I just see it differently, which is often the case. I guess I should know better by now.
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Quote from: Gertrude on June 08, 2017, 12:26:56 AM
I'll leave it like this: nothing personal was intended on my part, but I see I touched a raw nerve. Sorry about that. I just see it differently, which is often the case. I guess I should know better by now.
You should be aware that many of us have heard the argument you are making before, as the lead-in to essentially invalidating the existence of transgender persons. Persons such as Janice Raymond and Germaine Greer have used this as the basis for unfortunately popular exclusionary arguments regarding transgender persons, and many of us who have had to deal with that in our lives tend to react rather strongly when we see discussion here start making the same introductory remarks.
Pursuing that line of argument will directly lead to a violation of the Site Terms of Service (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) item 10, and I would strongly discourage that.
Being transgender is not a pathology, a disorder, or a mental illness, but it is real, and the effect of having a gender identity that does not correspond to our physicality can cause real distress in daily life, and for many of us can be treated medically through medical transition. Being transgender should not be a diagnosis, but the conflicts within an untreated transgender person certainly can represent a medical condition, physical distress with a proximate cause.
I am undergoing medical treatment for that distress and it's proximate cause. On completion of treatment my physical presence and gender presentation will match my gender identity, and the distress will be relieved. I consider that to be a cure. I will finally be whole and complete.
I am sorry if this doesn't match your world view or is otherwise offensive to you. I need to do this, and do not appreciate being told that my condition is not real.
Thank you for trying to understand.
Quote from: Michelle_P on June 08, 2017, 12:55:40 AM
You should be aware that many of us have heard the argument you are making before, as the lead-in to essentially invalidating the existence of transgender persons. Persons such as Janice Raymond and Germaine Greer have used this as the basis for unfortunately popular exclusionary arguments regarding transgender persons, and many of us who have had to deal with that in our lives tend to react rather strongly when we see discussion here start making the same introductory remarks.
Pursuing that line of argument will directly lead to a violation of the Site Terms of Service (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) item 10, and I would strongly discourage that.
Being transgender is not a pathology, a disorder, or a mental illness, but it is real, and the effect of having a gender identity that does not correspond to our physicality can cause real distress in daily life, and for many of us can be treated medically through medical transition. Being transgender should not be a diagnosis, but the conflicts within an untreated transgender person certainly can represent a medical condition, physical distress with a proximate cause.
I am undergoing medical treatment for that distress and it's proximate cause. On completion of treatment my physical presence and gender presentation will match my gender identity, and the distress will be relieved. I consider that to be a cure. I will finally be whole and complete.
I am sorry if this doesn't match your world view or is otherwise offensive to you. I need to do this, and do not appreciate being told that my condition is not real.
Thank you for trying to understand.
Don't know why you think I'm pursuing that line of argument, I'm not. In fact mine would be against Greer's argument too, just different than yours. I apologized, but threatening terms of service is petty. In many ways this community suffers from the same tribal elements as any other group in society, so, again, I apologize and I should know better.
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Quote from: Gertrude on June 08, 2017, 01:02:26 AM
Don't know why you think I'm pursuing that line of argument, I'm not. In fact mine would be against Greer's argument too, just different than yours. I apologized, but threatening terms of service is petty. In many ways this community suffers from the same tribal elements as any other group in society, so, again, I apologize and I should know better.
If you have a complete and consistent argument that started with the assumption that a medical condition is not involved, yet does not invalidate transgender identity and supports medical treatment as being necessary for some transgender persons, I would like to see it. Seriously. Seeing just a denial that there is a medical condition suggests the only chain of reasoning I know of that starts with that position, one that is exclusionary.
I mention the Terms of Service to avoid having someone try to promote that particular chain of reasoning here, where the community would indeed reject it, and rightly so.
Wow.. All that going back and forth! And little answered really in the end..
A few comments though - while opinions can matter, people with differing opinions should still be able to communicate. It's kinda funny that y'all want to argue over a point that is well accepted in other spaces. But here's a thought, Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is a medical condition - not a disease. It's a medical condition that has no cure, but has an effective treatment.
My opinion? It's a medical issue, one with no real cure, but one that has an accepted treatment. If I'd spent any great amount of time thinking otherwise, I would have ended up consumed by the guilt and shame that seems to eat at many. I've had the treatment I've needed and don't really suffer from the effects of the condition any more.
Quote from: kelly_aus on June 08, 2017, 05:55:21 PM
Wow.. All that going back and forth! And little answered really in the end..
A few comments though - while opinions can matter, people with differing opinions should still be able to communicate. It's kinda funny that y'all want to argue over a point that is well accepted in other spaces. But here's a thought, Partial Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome is a medical condition - not a disease. It's a medical condition that has no cure, but has an effective treatment.
My opinion? It's a medical issue, one with no real cure, but one that has an accepted treatment. If I'd spent any great amount of time thinking otherwise, I would have ended up consumed by the guilt and shame that seems to eat at many. I've had the treatment I've needed and don't really suffer from the effects of the condition any more.
For Kelly, medical transition is a treatment for a medical issue. For me, there is definitely a medical issue (my neuroendocrine system; chronic high beyond limits levels of cortisol tied to ACTH levels and adrenal dysregulation, and a possibly related prolactinoma, with fMRI data suggesting correction by replacement of testosterone with estradiol!).
Now, someone may approach gender issues as a sociological problem, as in queer theory and some feminist theory, and if it works for them as a rationale, great. Current treatment for many of us is medical in nature, however, and I suggest that folks be open to there being more than one valid explanation for the existence of transgender people and our need for treatment involving medical intervention. In my case, for example, simply accepting that I am queer without seeking medical intervention is unlikely to improve my severe discomfort with myself, or correct the endocrine problems.
In my case I do have a medical issue. My objection is to others arguing that I am l seeking medical treatment because I am not accepting enough of my queerness or similar qualities or by indicating that I have a medical condition am lying to others. (All real things I have heard in various communities, among many others)
There are many paths. We should all try to understand that, and accept that what works for one of us is not necessarily going to work for others. We each have to find our own way.
This is a support site. I would ask that we do try to support each other, rather than argue that one person's rationale must be accepted by all, or they are not being true to themselves. When we speak to our thoughts and beliefs, own them as ours, applicable to ourselves, but not necessarily how others must perceive themselves. Offer our thoughts as something for others to consider, but please refrain from invalidating others.
Quote from: Wild Flower on April 09, 2017, 05:48:30 PM
I have an idea, I want to start transitioning, but I don't want people to think that I am. I rather tell them I have a medical condition that is causing my hormones to act up. That way people will just think, "oh-poor you", and I can continue to transition without people thinking ill of me.
This is because I work in a prejudice environment, and my job is very important... so I would still dress and act masculine.
What do you think of this idea?
Don't do it. It will be 1000 time worse for you if someone finds out your lying. Besides you can start transitioning and hide it for at the very least a year. Depends on the dose and what type of delivery method you use. Pills are usually not as effective, body change wise so if you go the pill route you would get full mental advantages and not a lot of body change.
( just my opinion based on my experience alone )
Only thing I can't hide 100% is my boobs. Dress 100% as a male. Take off my nails. And where a compression top and nobody could tell. And I am a year plus on full dose.
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My point was that being trans isn't a medical condition nor disease. Not any more than being autistic, having blue eyes or being left handed, IMO. If it is, then it implies disorder and conditions that need correcting. If that's the case, then I am in the wrong place. The main problem with being transgender are the social issues that cause the psychological issues. In societies where people like us are or were accepted, it wasn't a problem. In our society, it's easier to change us as individuals to fit a binary expectation that to change society from myself. To make this a medical condition borders on munchausen, IMO.
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Quote from: Gertrude on April 09, 2017, 05:54:12 PM
Shame loves secrets, and that's something all of us can relate to. Maybe it's time for a new job.
And maybe discretion is the greater part of valor.
Quote from: Gertrude on October 04, 2017, 06:54:08 PM
My point was that being trans isn't a medical condition nor disease. Not any more than being autistic, having blue eyes or being left handed, IMO. If it is, then it implies disorder and conditions that need correcting. If that's the case, then I am in the wrong place. The main problem with being transgender are the social issues that cause the psychological issues. In societies where people like us are or were accepted, it wasn't a problem. In our society, it's easier to change us as individuals to fit a binary expectation that to change society from myself. To make this a medical condition borders on
If it is not a medical issue then why must it be covered by public or privately funded insurance. If your are equating the trauma caused by being born transsexual to having blue eyes then l want what you are smoking.
Hi Wild Rose,
The medical conditions you can pin the blame on are rather serious - congestive heart failure, or prostate/testicular cancer. You could use these as excuses at work I suppose - treatment for prostate cancer could be handled on an outpatient basis, I reckon. And it's something very personal - is someone at work really going to pump you for information here?
There was a big thread on low dose HRT (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,130268.0.html) and some of the posters brought up how to cover up feminization - growing beards, wearing dark/loose shirts and minimizing bras, etc. Like you they need or prefer to present as male at work.