Hello folks.
It's now two full months since my FFS and I gotta say, I'm not liking it. The problem is that I got a lot of sagging skin under my chin and around my jaw and that's making my face look weird and unnatural.
But let me backtrack a little. I had the usual whole-face work done: forehead, jaw, chin. I've always thought my chin was too long, so I wanted it fixed. The rest kind of followed from that. I was hoping to see my face as feminine at last.
So I went to one of the doctors who specialise in FFS around my neck of the woods (I don't want to name names, at least not before I get the chance to talk to the guy, in a few months' time. He has a good reputation in any case). I got the work done, then I went back home and waited patiently for the swelling to go down. And when the swelling went down- oh. my. god.
That's when I would normally expect to be looking at my face in the mirror amazed at my own femininity. I'd be taking loads and loads of pictures, documenting the changes every day. I would even consider getting an Instagram account, I'd be so beyond myself with joy. I'd be going to sleep with a smile on my face every single night. Boys would smile at me more. Girls would glare at me more. Everything would be rosy and golden with sugar on top.
Except- not really. I don't look more feminine than before. Instead, I look a lot older and butt ugly, because I suddendly have bulldog jowls and a double-chin that wouldn't be out of place on the face of a cartoon fat-cat banker. I swear I've seen people three decades older than me who don't have that much loose skin hanging off their jaws as I do now. In profile, I look like my grandmother. I'm pretty sure that was not the kind of facial feminisation I asked for!
I understand that I have to be patient. Oh, I do. I'm being patient. Like I say, all the swelling is pretty much gone by now. And I can't see anything else changing besides the swelling, so it's pretty hard to believe thigns are going to get any better. I compare my pictures from one month ago and today and it's exactly the same thing. I have a sort of triangle of flesh hanging off the middle of my jaw and a little pouch of fat under my chin.
What's this? I knew it's possible to get some skin sagging after jaw and chin work but I've looked at many, many before-and-after pictures and I can't see anyone having such a big problem as I'm having. Am I just really unlucky? Or is it something that goes away after a while and I should just relax and, well, be more patient?
Come on ladies. Share your stories with me. Has anyone else had that much hanging flesh before? Does it ever go away on its own? Will I have to go under the knife again?
Edit: I know you'll want to see what that looks like so here are a couple of pictures:
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi102.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm115%2Fpurifyre%2Fthree_quarters_after_2_zpsntt0wdui.png&hash=5fe1caea099db1e549f101ea39186e1cc7e6b282) (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/purifyre/media/three_quarters_after_2_zpsntt0wdui.png.html)
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi102.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm115%2Fpurifyre%2Fleft_side_after_zpsziybkqbp.png&hash=b0047b76b861becf7e313b6283828f07de4c180d) (http://s102.photobucket.com/user/purifyre/media/left_side_after_zpsziybkqbp.png.html)
I haven't had that type of surgery however if you are young, it's possible that your skin may shrink to some degree much like a woman's stomach returns to normal after having a baby. It may take a while and you will need to discuss this with your doctor to learn what you can expect.
I'm so sorry to hear that!! It's beyond my imagination how difficult and painful it must have been for you.
If it helps at all I have heard about people who lost a great amount of weight in a short period of time suffering from temporary sagging skin. IIRC they said depending on the patient's age the skin may be elastic enough to compensate for it. However I don't know very much about how it would play out for skin in the face/neck area. Could it be that the body is prioritizing tissue growth instead of reduction due to the recent surgery? I hope what's happening to you is your body is being too occupied with healing to fine tune the unnecessary tissues...
I wish you all the best, and I have my fingers crossed that your skin will go back to normal soon!
Yuna
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I would like to suggest you post some photos...if not of your entire face, at least the problem areas. This way other women that have had comparable procedures can share if they feel your results are out of the norm. I understand you're nor interested in divulging names, but where may your "neck of the woods" be? It may help others in the area not make the same choice should it turn out you actually have an issue.
Quote from: jentay1367 on April 28, 2017, 11:14:05 PM
I would like to suggest you postsome photos...if not of your entire face, the problem areas. This way other women that have had comparable procedures cancshare if they feel your results are out of the norm. I understand you're nor interested in divulging names, but where may your "neck of the woods" be? It may help others invthe area not make the same choice should you actually have an issue.
I posted some pictures, see my updated post above.
As to my neck of the woods, it really doesn't matter. The doctor in question has a very good reputation and most of his patients seem to be quite happy with their results. Me divulging his name would only serve to needlessly upset any women preparing to have surgery with him.
I certainly don't mean to undermine your concerns. But I've watched some friends heal and after two months they looked no better and probably worse than you. This kind of surgery can take a very long time for all the swelling to subside. I know what it's like to obsess in the mirror just as most women here do as well. I really don't think it's going to be an issue. It's at the very least too early to make the determination. I'm sure others will chime in soon, I just wanted to say that it looks like typical swelling from FFS. Give it some time and see if you don't notice its going down. I really expected ro see some horrific photos and what you've shown just doesn't seem that bad.
Do what I do and have a scotch and some xanax. I'm joking of course.....okay, no I'm not.
I think it's going to be okay, hon. I really do.
It looks like straight up swelling if you ask me. Not surprising at all considering you had bone work done.
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Thank you ladies for the encouraging advice.
I hope you're right and it's all just swelling that'll go down eventually. I thought so too, at the start, but then I started looking at the pictures people post of their recovery from FFS and I couldn't find anyone looking like
that. I appreciate that people proably don't post the bad pictures, but I've seen plenty of side-on and three-quarters pictures like the ones I posted above and even at one month I've never seen anyone with such a big wonky patch of skin in the middle of their jaw.
Besides, the post-op advice I got from my doctor was that most of the swelling will be gone after three weeks- and indeed it seemed to. My face looked like a tomato for the first couple of weeks, then it slowly deflated and now it looks normal, except for those weird bits under my chin and in the middle of my jawline.
So, really, I don't want to be precious, it's just I really have no idea what I should expect. I'm not even sure I understand what's the difference supposed to be between swelling that'll go down and sagging that'll just get worse. I was hoping someone here had some experience with the latter, so they could enlighten me. I was particularly interested in hearing from ladies who might have had to have some revision afterwards, particularly a lower face lift to show off their new jawline.
I should say I'm worrying so much because it seems like I'll really not be able to afford any such revisions myself. So if this jowly, double-chinny look doesn't go away on its own I'm going to be stuck with it for the long run and that'd really suck.
Quote from: jentay1367 on April 28, 2017, 11:50:35 PM
I certainly don't mean to undermine your concerns.
That's quite alright, I didn't take your comment as undermining anything and I'm very grateful for your encouraging words. I really hope you're right, too.
Sorry t hear you're not in a good spot. I'm three weeks post op from forehead type III and waiting for swelling to go down. There's not much but I would like for it to go down to the point where I can see a dramatic difference from my male forehead to a female one. It's close but with my life savings gone to fix it I want it to be better.
Now about your pics, I hope you don't mind me saying that you have really great skin, very girly lips and nose and I think if you do need a mini lower face lift, maybe that's the unintended consequence that we all enter into even while a lot of us blow all savings we had and also go into debt. I need a lower facelift too to feminize my face more and it bothers me every day. Not as much as my manly forehead did... but it still annoys me. I will be getting a second job just a part time job, from which all proceeds will go towards my facelift. And I'm only 39 years old.
Maybe that's something you can consider. If the swelling doesn't go down. I hate the fact that we have to focus so much on our appearance. But that's the human race and we're in it.
Hope this helps!! JuJu
I truly believe it will go down. When your Doctor said "most", if you think about it, most of it has. But for you to look like you envision? That's going to take time. Really invasive facial surgery can take 6-9 months for total recovery. Patience, grasshopper. Lol
Quote from: Jujubee on April 29, 2017, 01:28:24 PM
Sorry t hear you're not in a good spot. I'm three weeks post op from forehead type III and waiting for swelling to go down. There's not much but I would like for it to go down to the point where I can see a dramatic difference from my male forehead to a female one. It's close but with my life savings gone to fix it I want it to be better.
Now about your pics, I hope you don't mind me saying that you have really great skin, very girly lips and nose and I think if you do need a mini lower face lift, maybe that's the unintended consequence that we all enter into even while a lot of us blow all savings we had and also go into debt. I need a lower facelift too to feminize my face more and it bothers me every day. Not as much as my manly forehead did... but it still annoys me. I will be getting a second job just a part time job, from which all proceeds will go towards my facelift. And I'm only 39 years old.
Maybe that's something you can consider. If the swelling doesn't go down. I hate the fact that we have to focus so much on our appearance. But that's the human race and we're in it.
Hope this helps!! JuJu
Thanks for your comment Juju. Yes, I get it, I should be happy with what I got and if I managed to ruin it with my FFS choices, then tough but that's life and everyone else is in the same boat.
By the same token I'm just as worried and uncertain about the outcomes of my FFS as any other person. Hearing from others who had similar experiences would really help me calm down a bit, even if it turns out I do have to stay like this for a long time.
Quote from: jentay1367 on April 29, 2017, 02:08:17 PM
I truly believe it will go down. When your Doctor said "most", if you think about it, most of it has. But for you to look like you envision? That's going to take time. Really invasive facial surgery can take 6-9 months for total recovery. Patience, grasshopper. Lol
You know, in my mind I'm this very cool-headed person who always faces facts with absolute detachement. At this point in time that person would realise she has no other options but to wait and see, so she'd forget about the whole affair and make a mental note to think about it again at the half-year mark.
... in practice of course, I'll just go nuts if I don't talk about it with someone.
Are your double chin and jowls fatty tissue like the more usual sort of double chin? i expect you could probably tell whether or not by feeling it with your fingers.
If so, there are tv ads for some sort of injections called "kybella", which promises to rid you of that problem. They only promise to fix double chins, but i looked up using it on cheeks, and some clinics say "yes" to that too.
i've watched every episode of "Botched". For their guest patients who get facial surgery, they sometimes tell them to wait up to 2 years. And those guest patients generally get less done to them than you've just had.
Isn't it worth waiting for? You wouldn't want to be like their average patient of the week. " ... I didn't quite like the results of the 1'st surgery, so then there was surgeries 2-5, which only made things worse, and now I look like the Phantom of the Opera ... "
If you were to edit your posts this thread and add "before" shots in the same poses, maybe everyone would say you are now much improved?
Quote from: GlobalPessimum on April 29, 2017, 02:37:54 PM
You know, in my mind I'm this very cool-headed person who always faces facts with absolute detachement. At this point in time that person would realise she has no other options but to wait and see, so she'd forget about the whole affair and make a mental note to think about it again at the half-year mark.
... in practice of course, I'll just go nuts if I don't talk about it with someone.
That's what were here for babe. Sounding boards. Hard to be rational about the face you've wanted to look right your whole damned life. If you think about it, for you to have looked in the mirror and seen perfection after a lifetime of dysphoria? Well.....It doesn't even sound right when you say it. The fairy tale of FFS is just like HRT. These changes simply don't happen over night. This is not the stuff of fairy tales. It's all hard work and patience. Or is that patience and hard work? Anyways..I'd kill to have your beautiful skin. Where'd I put that oil of old age?
Patience...
In the lower face, the swelling tends to be slow to dissipate. Upper face swelling can also 'collect' in the lower face, causing distorted results.
Give it time. Six months from surgery. That'll give the swelling time to subside, and also let your brain get used to the new face.
On the subject of FFS disappointment - yes, it exists. We see online these dramatic changes from male to female after FFS, yet we don't realize that these are great results and carefully curated pictures. Think of online examples of FFS like photos that accompany recipes: they look far better than the results when we cook things ourselves.
Your results don't seem abnormal at all. Your expectations are off - like many of us are when it comes to the realities of surgery and HRT. FFS is a bit of a misnomer: it feminizes, but definitely doesn't make feminine. A masculine face will be made less masculine rather than made feminine.
A side note - you did go to a known FFS surgeon, right? And not a local guy who claims to do FFS but really does boobs and tummy tucks and facelifts for rich stay at home moms? There's guys in every city who claim to do FFS but rarely deliver good results. If you went to a no-name surgeon, ignore my advice above, because you might have genuinely poor results.
Quote from: thylacina on April 29, 2017, 03:05:09 PM
Are your double chin and jowls fatty tissue like the more usual sort of double chin? i expect you could probably tell whether or not by feeling it with your fingers.
If so, there are tv ads for some sort of injections called "kybella", which promises to rid you of that problem. They only promise to fix double chins, but i looked up using it on cheeks, and some clinics say "yes" to that too.
i've watched every episode of "Botched". For their guest patients who get facial surgery, they sometimes tell them to wait up to 2 years. And those guest patients generally get less done to them than you've just had.
Isn't it worth waiting for? You wouldn't want to be like their average patient of the week. " ... I didn't quite like the results of the 1'st surgery, so then there was surgeries 2-5, which only made things worse, and now I look like the Phantom of the Opera ... "
If you were to edit your posts this thread and add "before" shots in the same poses, maybe everyone would say you are now much improved?
I think my double chin is mostly fat. It's hard to tell because the muscle underneath is still very stiff, like rock-hard, so it's not easy to feel. I had some liposuction there, to prevent this sort of thing exactly, I guess it could have been worse. The jowls seem to be skin, rather than fat. There might be a bit of swelling in the muscle there, it's hard to tell.
Edit: I've read about Kybella. I'll give it a try if things don't sort themselves out after a few months, but not too soon, like you say.
It's definitely worth waiting. I'd really rather avoid any more surgery. I think I've had too much of it already. The one thing that really bothered me with my face was my chin that was too long. But, since I was getting that done I thought I might as well get the works so I don't have room to fret later about what I haven't had done.
Of course, here I am now fretting about what I did have done... :/
Quote from: katieanna on April 30, 2017, 02:29:48 AM
Patience...
In the lower face, the swelling tends to be slow to dissipate. Upper face swelling can also 'collect' in the lower face, causing distorted results.
Give it time. Six months from surgery. That'll give the swelling time to subside, and also let your brain get used to the new face.
On the subject of FFS disappointment - yes, it exists. We see online these dramatic changes from male to female after FFS, yet we don't realize that these are great results and carefully curated pictures. Think of online examples of FFS like photos that accompany recipes: they look far better than the results when we cook things ourselves.
Your results don't seem abnormal at all. Your expectations are off - like many of us are when it comes to the realities of surgery and HRT. FFS is a bit of a misnomer: it feminizes, but definitely doesn't make feminine. A masculine face will be made less masculine rather than made feminine.
A side note - you did go to a known FFS surgeon, right? And not a local guy who claims to do FFS but really does boobs and tummy tucks and facelifts for rich stay at home moms? There's guys in every city who claim to do FFS but rarely deliver good results. If you went to a no-name surgeon, ignore my advice above, because you might have genuinely poor results.
Yes, I went to one of the well-known FFS specialists. He has many, many before-and-after pictures on his website's galleries and the vast majority look better in the "after" pictures than in the "before" so I felt reassured he knows his stuff. And I still think he does, don't get me wrong.
To be honest, I expected to be a little disappointed, or at least not as excited as I say in my first post above. I certainly
wished that FFS would be a radical improvement to my appearance and my life, and that I would experience the raw joy that many women show after FFS, but I didn't really
expect that. I thought it would probably be kind of meh, really. Like, you know when you see a before/after picture pair and think "well, she looks the same". That's what I was expecting and that's what I pretty much got.
I think that's why I'm focusing so much on the things I don't like. The changes I got are very subtle overall and the most noticeable ones are the bits I'm unhappy about.
I've seen some women who look strikingly different after the operation, and I can only imagine how great they must feel. I wish I could feel that way but I guess, that's just not me. But- who knows, maybe when it all settles down those subtle changes will get a chance to shine through and I'll have more to be happy about.
So, yeah, patience. I gotta learn to be happy with what I got. I think I've been really bad at that for my entire life.
Quote from: jentay1367 on April 29, 2017, 03:31:36 PM
That's what were here for babe. Sounding boards. Hard to be rational about the face you've wanted to look right your whole damned life. If you think about it, for you to have looked in the mirror and seen perfection after a lifetime of dysphoria? Well.....It doesn't even sound right when you say it. The fairy tale of FFS is just like HRT. These changes simply don't happen over night. This is not the stuff of fairy tales. It's all hard work and patience. Or is that patience and hard work? Anyways..I'd kill to have your beautiful skin. Where'd I put that oil of old age?
Thanks.
I think the skin thing is just the lighting in my pictuers. Sorry. :-\
I don't think I will ever get FFS and would recommend that people only get it as a last resort. That being said, here is my interpretation of what happened: The jaw-line problem you're experiencing is caused by swelling, and could likely resolve itself if you keep taking things like Advil and proper nutrition.
I had an electrolygist appointment where I got lidocane injections as an anesthetic. It made me have swelling that took weeks to subside, as well as marks on my face from the electro itself that took something like 4 months to fade away. It's delayed my electro progress by 6 months. So, you get the idea. Good luck.
PS - The solution for the electro problem I described is to have the hair growth change from HRT before continuing electro, in order to avoid marks.
In reading old ffs posts, swelling and esp jaw and chin work swelling moves from north to south and seems to plague many for quite some time. You seem to be cautious and analytical and you may be waiting for the other shoe to drop. Many of us do that, given our history. But
Please just hang in there!
This has been a common problem of those who had v-line surgery in south korea... They always end up needling a mini facelift or thread lift to the point that it's in a form of a package surgery... Because there is less support structure underneath or the tissues were not reattached properly... That's why I decided not to go through the v- line surgery.... Go to realself.com there are many regrets and advice post v- line surgery/ jaw reduction surgery.....
Quote from: Miss Lux on May 01, 2017, 01:43:12 PM
This has been a common problem of those who had v-line surgery in south korea... They always end up needling a mini facelift or thread lift to the point that it's in a form of a package surgery... Because there is less support structure underneath or the tissues were not reattached properly... That's why I decided not to go through the v- line surgery.... Go to realself.com there are many regrets and advice post v- line surgery/ jaw reduction surgery.....
Thanks for that info, Miss Lux! Now I know why I need a mini facelift!!
Quote from: Miss Lux on May 01, 2017, 01:43:12 PM
This has been a common problem of those who had v-line surgery in south korea... They always end up needling a mini facelift or thread lift to the point that it's in a form of a package surgery... Because there is less support structure underneath or the tissues were not reattached properly... That's why I decided not to go through the v- line surgery.... Go to realself.com there are many regrets and advice post v- line surgery/ jaw reduction surgery.....
I've checked out realself before posting here. Most people who get V-line surgery in South Korea have a very different face than mine so they're not a very good model for my situation.
Additionally, I couldn't find any good pictures of sagging skin after that sort of surgery that looked anything like my problem, so I'm still unsure how common it is.
I read about this several times that if the jaw and chin is modified a lot, a lifting is needed. Some surgeons offer to do it right away or with some time delay after the initial surgery - I think often it is not included in the original quotation though. It makes sense to wait for 6-9 months though as surgeons say that swelling can last that long. I have now swelling at the legs from liposuction and its not really anywhere close to be gone at over 2 months - I am told it also takes 6 months!
I too had FFS back on feb 14 with Dr. Cardenas... he (strongly) encouraged a minor facelift in addition to the other ffs procedures.. Note he did NOT think I needed some things I thought I needed, but I still opted to get some (in particular jaw recountouring) so I am pretty sure it wasn't just up-selling on his part.
That beings said, I noticed a significant difference after the facelift. It took literally 10-20 years off my face in addition to my face being much more feminine. The responding posts are correct in that it feminizes, it does NOT make female. The initial canvas is a tremendous help in dictating what the final result (after its all settled down) will be.
I'm still healing myself, and my forehead and jawline still feel numb'ish. I am also getting the fun 'pins and needles' when if feels like something is stabbing you with a small ice pick. Nerves regrowing is terribly fun isn't it.
I don't post pictures online, but am willing to email them privately, just have to ask me. All in all the way I see it... You'll never be 100% happy. If the jowls are a concern, there are additional (I know, right???!) options for this later when most of the healing is done. If the surgeon did a lot of chin work, its sad he didn't consider a facelift at the same time because it WILL leave additional skin once bone has been removed as the structural framework.. the skin doesn't mystically vanish with the bone, and will sag a bit.
I also experienced the results of skin sagging from drainage, in particular right around the angle of the mandible, it was BAD for a while, but has finally tightened up. (Dr. Cardenas' assistant withdrew a full needle of accumulated blood from both areas in my jawline). My initial pics 2 weeks later the skin around the jaw was yellowed & saggy, and ugly as sin.
Be patient... in 6 months to a year review additional options. And remember, we are our own worst critic.
Hope this helps.
I lost 35 kilos 2 years ago and it worked surprisingly well - the skin did shrink with it to a large degree. I still have a bit of sagging at the neck and belly and butt, but not as bad as I was fearing when loosing that much. So the skin can shrink and tighten. I took a lot of supplements with it and watched to eat low in sugars. But to a large degree it is luck and time.
From the picture you posted and being only 2 months, I think you have a really good result.
Yes it takes about 6 months until the face heals and swelling goes down. I had my surgery about 3 months ago and I am still a bit swollen in the nose and neck area. I may need some additional work, but I am 67 years old and just about everyone my age can benefit from a little additional work :D
Look I can't not comment about FFS having not had it...
But I can comment from the perspective of someone who had a full jaw/chin reconstruction for medical reasons.
I was also really worried after I came back from the surgery I looked different and there was swelling bloating and all sorts of nasty.
It took my face a good 6 months before I couldn't see swelling and at least that long for the skin to find it's new normal.
All in all plus some sight nerve damage my recovery probably took 6-8 months before I both adjusted to my new look and everything settled down.
Not to say your concern isn't warranted but healing can take quite some time.
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Having looked at Dr Z'snwork in his site it is amazing and dramatic. Even the forehead work for some is quite dramatic. I didn't think that was possible due to it being type I. Anyone have any insight on this? Thx
Quote from: Jujubee on May 11, 2017, 10:07:14 AM
Having looked at Dr Z'snwork in his site it is amazing and dramatic. Even the forehead work for some is quite dramatic. I didn't think that was possible due to it being type I. Anyone have any insight on this? Thx
Go to his website and read about his procedures. Particularly brow bossing. He maintains the skull is much thicker than most x-rays divulge. That too much overexposure with x-rays tend to make the sinus bone appear much thinner than it actually is. His work with burring would bear that out. I''m using him in a couple of weeks. I specifically picked him because of his non-invasive techniques. I have no desire for a lifetime of sinus issues. I know it isn't always the case, but I'm not willing to take the gamble. I'll get what I get.
Quote from: jentay1367 on May 11, 2017, 10:14:16 AM
Go to his website and read about his procedures. Particularly brow bossing. He maintains the skull is much thicker than most x-rays divulge. That too much overexposure with x-rays tend to make the sinus bone appear much thinner than it actually is. His work with burring would bear that out. I''m using him in a couple of weeks. I specifically picked him because of his non-invasive techniques. I have no desire for a lifetime of sinus issues. I know it isn't always the case, but I'm not willing to take the gamble. I'll get what I get.
I hear you. The proof is in his amazing results. Good for you and I wish all the best!! JuJu
Thanks Sweetie, to say I'm excited is a massive understatement. I appreciate your well wishes!
Thank you ladies for your replies. I haven't checked back here for a while so I just got to see them.
Doreen- thank you for volunteering to share your pictures, I really appreciate it. I think I understand how beneficial a facelift can be and I figured I may have to consider one at some point. The thing is, I definitely didn't feel it was needed yet, until I had my FFS. The other problem is that I asked my surgeon to make me a proposal for a facelift and it would cost me more than half what my FFS cost and I just can't afford that right now. So I'm stuck with what I got for the time being. Unless of course I go to someone a lot cheaper, risking even worse results.
To be honest, I just don't want to have another surgery, ever. I'm fed up with people cutting me up with knives and stitching me back up and stapling bits of me shut. And if that means I'm stuck with droopy flesh for the long term- well, I'll just have to learn to suck it up.
Tammy Jade- thanks. I'll try to keep my hopes up for the next year or so. I can tell my muscles and nerves are definitely still healing so there may also be some swelling still left. I really doubt it, but, who knows. Hope dies last.
I hope you've long since recovered from your opetations.
Jentay - All the best of luck with your surgery and thank you for your support here.
Quote from: anjaq on May 10, 2017, 01:56:21 PM
I read about this several times that if the jaw and chin is modified a lot, a lifting is needed. ...
Quote from: Doreen on May 10, 2017, 02:24:04 PM
I too had FFS ... with Dr. Cardenas... he (strongly) encouraged a minor facelift in addition to the other ffs procedures. ...
This is my understanding as well. (i.e., web search: facelift site:virtualffs.co.uk) Reducing the chin/jaw size reduces the surface area for existing skin which immediately post-OP is hidden by swelling. I think, depending on the patient, healing will tighten the skin up somewhat but that patients should generally be prepared to accept looser skin there if not doing anything specific about it.
Generally speaking I feel any proposal for chin/jaw work should be presented to the patient with the notion they may have looser or sagging skin or a need for skin-tightening procedures after FFS for the most optimum results... assuming nothing is done at the same time as FFS.
I recently had chin reduction surgery and my surgeon was very direct about this, including the fact that post-OP swelling can hide the expected looseness. My pre-OP starting point had some jowl'ing where immediately post-OP sure enough swelling hid even those pre-OP jowls LoL... ( three cheers for swelling ;D ) ... as swelling subsided my jowls returned and I'd say they are in fact slightly looser... no surprises since I expected that.
I hope one day to tighten it up but things need to fully heal and in the meantime I'm enjoying finding ways to make it work, to enjoy what is very positive about the procedures performed.
Side tip... immediately post-OP I made an appointment at a Sephora to get a lesson to help learn optimum post-OP makeup tips including contouring... I wouldn't underestimate the value of checking in now and then with a Sephora-like place for a makeup lesson. You can express concerns and ask "What are my options?" They are quite talented. I tend to like light makeup/foundation routines so I asked, "What's a good day routine to minimize this/that etc?" I got very helpful input.
I sort of feel none of this stuff is perfect, it seems more about trade offs. I feel more successful in all this when I can take the imperfections with stride and appreciate what is positive about the various procedures... and overall how far I've come... considering my starting point, I have no complaints and am in fact appreciative.
You actually seem to be resilient with an ability to take things in stride so kudos for that. You are also not far post-OP so it's understandable that skin-tightening isn't something you're anxious to jump into... giving things time to heal will let you see how things truly settle and you may feel up to something at that future date.
Also, for skin-tightening, I don't think a maxillofacial FFS surgeon is required for that... it's not boney work... you probably want to go to someone who is excellent with skin tightening and, I can't say, but maybe whoever that is is less costly than a maxillofacial FFS surgeon doing the same.
I agree with what others have pointed out... the pictures you posted indicate you have great skin and facial features and giving things time to heal is wise.
What's weird is I didn't have any lower face work done and I have some jowelyness happening at my jawline.
I think it was there before but wasn't as noticable before or something? I've heard face lift or certain fillers as fixes......maybe in another decade I'll worry about that.
Have you looked into coolsculpting? It supposed to be a non invasive fat freezing/burning procedure with little to no down time. I have been looking into it myself after I get my ffs done next month for my chin as I have a little bit that doesn't go away no matter how thin I get. If it's skin or residual swelling and not fat deposits, I'm not sure what would help aside for a face or neck lift.
Quote from: Justarandomname on May 16, 2017, 11:36:09 PM
Have you looked into coolsculpting? It supposed to be a non invasive fat freezing/burning procedure with little to no down time. I have been looking into it myself after I get my ffs done next month for my chin as I have a little bit that doesn't go away no matter how thin I get. If it's skin or residual swelling and not fat deposits, I'm not sure what would help aside for a face or neck lift.
I've done a lot of research on coolsculpting. Not sure it's allowed on the face either. Your skin can be numb for months potentially.
Quote from: Ashley3 on May 14, 2017, 09:36:35 PM
... I recently had chin reduction surgery... My pre-OP starting point had some jowl'ing where immediately post-OP sure enough swelling hid even those pre-OP jowls LoL... ( three cheers for swelling ;D ) ... as swelling subsided my jowls returned and I'd say they are in fact slightly looser... no surprises since I expected that. ...
Given the discussion of this thread, I've been looking more carefully at my jowls to try to zero in more clearly on how much additional post-OP jowl'ing I see... I have to say, looked at them today/yesterday... they seem like the same size jowls as pre-OP. I don't see much if any difference. I'm wondering if there's some slight skin tightening happening from healing.
It also caused me to ask if I've changed any facial treatments...
I recently added a twice daily application of Environ Retinol 1 which I apply to my face. This is supposed to be super stuff... not sure if it would reduce jowls but I mention it fwiw.
I also recently added a morning/evening facial cleansing routine (before using Retinol) where I use a special exfoliation wash cloth, rotating gently with Cetaphil cleanser (it's inexpensive but i hear decent facial skin cleanser).
So I think there are 4 things I'm generally doing
- Morning/evening Cetaphil gently rotating w/exfoliation cloth.
- Morning/evening Environ Retinol 1 on the face, applied with gently rotating fingers.
- Some mornings... a day makeup routine largely based on a Sephora custom makeover which requires a $50 purchase so it's free but you have to buy $50 of product. I've gone to free/paid makeovers over the years... I find stopping in now and then helps to learn new seasonal things given my current skin, season, things i may be going through such surgery recovery and all that. For example, I recently learned about Erase Paste for bruising but then discovered how it can be used to light dark areas on a regular basis. It's great stuff! Anyway, my current makeup routine is very light coverage using a beauty blender w/light contouring. It really makes a nice difference but I'm okay without it too... definitely more passing with.
Some considerations so far:
- Skin sagging depends A LOT on your type of skin (regardless your age). Mine is very prone to sagging too (it has been that way since my late teens). And yes, I know, it's really bad luck. However, it may recover if not fully at least to an extent, just needs time (quite a few months).
- Retin-A (tretinoin) cream works wonders when it comes to tightening the skin (collagen stimulation) and boosting its regeneration plus its a cheap product.
- Professional skin rollers (microneedling) also work pretty nice.
- Thread liftings (even though the results last just for 2 years) are almost as effective as surgical liftings, and (at least here) prices start at around 600$.
- As a last resort, surgical liftings are a pretty common plastic procedure so you don't really need a FFS specialist in order to get good results. Don't be fooled, surgery outcomes mostly depend on patients set-up (ability to heal, type of skin, bone structure, amount of tissue, starting point) and on the limitations of current surgical techniques.
I know about tretinoin but I thought it was only good for wrinkles, no? I'm not even sure if stimulating collagen will really tighten the skin, if it's hanging loose. I mean, I'm not a dermatologist so I have absolutely no idea how all that works.
According to my surgeon my skin is not very elastic at all. I'm guessing that means it won't just pull itself into shape as easily, or at all. But I also don't have many wrinkles, so I guess that's... what? Good collagen production?
I mean, I'm so clueless about all this dermatology stuff you might tell me it's little fairies under the skin pulling it tight and I could believe it.
Quote from: Wikipedia
Collagen has great tensile strength, and is the main component of fascia, cartilage, ligaments, tendons, bone and skin. Along with elastin and soft keratin, it is responsible for skin strength and elasticity, and its degradation leads to wrinkles that accompany aging.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collagen
I guess wrinkles are not just upon collagen deficiency. Usually (as far as I've seen) those who got lots of skin sagginess are less prone to deep wrinkles. In my case, collagen estimulation helped a lot with skin tone. My 2 cents.
A small update, with apologies for raising the thread.
I just had a follow-up meeting with my doctor and he assured me that the loose skin around my jaw that I've been really worried about will definitely improve. He seemed pretty confident about it, so I have to say my worse fears have been assuaged, for the time being. On the downside, it may take quite a bit of time, up to a year at least, before I can tell how much improvement I can expect -because as the doctor said the hanging skin will improve but it will not completely go back to the way it was before. So I have to set in for a long wait.
I'm an idiot so I forgot to ask what exactly is it that's causing my skin to hang down like that. I'm not sure it's swelling, only. It may be scar tissue or just the muscles slowly reattaching themselves to my bone. Or maybe the little fairies ang gnomes that keep my skin tight are just taking a while to build up their numbers again after the incursion of the brutal surgery trolls. Who knows.
To be honest, I think I've started to see a bit of an improvement. I think the shape of my chin is a bit more defined now, and the jowly area looks a bit less swollen, overall. It's hard to tell because although I've been taking lots of pictures in the same few poses, for comparison, even a small change in the position of my face can make a big difference in how my jawline looks. But I think it's getting better.
So thank you ladies for helping me calm down when I worried that my face was ruined.
Now, all that is just about the skin hanging off the sides of my jaw. There's also some skin hanging under my chin and that's not going to go away on its own. However, the doctor agreed to do liposuction for free, as a revision and I'm very happy about that. I had some liposuction there already, as part of my FFS but I guess it wasn't enough. It's true that I had some fat there, before the FFS, but because I had a long chin you couldn't really see it, certainly not from the front. Well, now you can. And after the liposuction, it will disappear again. It's magic!
Btw, the doctor did say that if I'm still unhappy with the way my jaw looks after a year I can always have a facelift. I doubt that's going to be for free though, so I'm hoping it won't be needed. He says he really doesn't think it will. We'll see.
And that's it. Thanks for all your kind words again, ladies.