For as long as i can remember i have always been rather jealous of females, the way they look, dress, talk, their personalities being much more pleasant and affectionate than most men...I always wanted to be like that. I always crave the attention that they get from men and even other women. I have never received so much love and attention being perceived as a man by the world. I am attracted to females sexually as well but generally i always fantasize about being a woman and then making love to a man. I do want to transition someday when i am not so fearful.
I think that envy is a better word than jealousy. We are jealous of what we already have. Envy of cis women seems normal to me. We want what they have. I don't think that there is anything wrong with that. For example, envying your friend's house is not the same as coveting your friend's house. One implies that you want a house like your friend's, the other implies that you want your friend's actual house.
I sometimes feel slightly envious as much as I admire them while wishing I looked just like her. I suppose it's more regret rather than jealousy that I have this male body shape while they are beautifully feminine x
I have almost constant jealousy and envy, especially of the more beautiful and femme women. It has lessened a tad, now that I've accepted myself as trans. Perhaps, as my body becomes less masculine, I'll feel even better. Maybe, I'll become physically more androgynous and that will be enough, or if it doesn't, I might have to become more female for my stress to go away.
I know what you mean. It started as a competition with my sister who was getting all the attention. When I asked my mother to dress me in my sisters costumes at seven years old and my mother praised how I looked I finally had equal footing with my sister. As I got older I began fantasizing about so called super models and actresses. I began praying that I would awake fully formed and functioning as a female. After all God can do anything. Well now I know better, but it does not end the pursuit. In my dreams, I have slept with men. I also had babies. I have since learned it more than likely is not a dream but a symptom of DES poisoning in utero. And I was actually predetermined to have these feelings because of DES application was administered in the sweet spot between body and brain formation.(at week 8 to 10) In other words. I have the boy bits, think vienna sausage in the can vs. the 1/4 pound dog you get at Costco. Although deformed. But I have a brain developed under massive doses of female hormones which is what DES is. I also have a myriad of heart problems because my body was not fully developed before the administration of DES. DES was used supposedly to prevent miscarriages. It was cheap, but never proven to do the job it was intended for. There are an estimated 1.5 million men that have met this fate as it was administered between 1937 and 1972. Even later outside of the US.
Envy is the word I use to describe what I feel. Women are so fortunate to be born female. I had to spend a lot of money to become female. But the result is priceless. :icon_woowoo:
I agree with the envy.
I want to be feminine, I want to look like certain women and know I never will. I would like to be pregnant.
I do not envy the abuse, lack of respect that some men think is ok. I don't envy rape, groping, and other violations that women suffer through. I don't envy the pressure society puts on women to be beautiful and available.
Whether you call it jealousy or envy, for about as long as I remember, I would look at women and think "I really want to look like that". The shape of the body, the clothes, the makeup and jewelery - I wanted it. I remember going to prom, and being disappointed that my option was "tux", as opposed to all the beautiful dresses. That was what I wanted.
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Definitely envy. I've always been envious of all the pretty clothes they get to wear (all the way back to 7 years old or earlier). Later I became envious of them for everything else. I'm envious of my best lady-friend's natural DD boobs, but I also know just how much of a (literal) pain they can be at that size.
Looking back, yes, I envied girls, but so much of my psychological gender dysphoria was buried in my subconscious that I was not aware of it at the time. But in my youth I remember being fascinated by my fashion artist mother's drawings of beautiful women wearing beautiful clothes, my interest in reading the articles in Seventeen magazine, and being delighted to get involved in activities involving girls. I was attracted to girls/women and admired them. But it wasn't until I acknowledged and accepted that I was trans did the envy really hit me hard. Now that I am a transsexual woman with passing privilege, you would think that the envy would vanish, but it's still there when I see women still in their prime. I missed out on so much life as a girl and as a young woman which can never be reclaimed. I envy them for having lived a full life as females, having experienced young love, child birth, and so on.
Today, I enjoy being around other women of my age, but being way past the spring chicken stage of life, there's little to be envious of in the physical looks department. Sagging this and wrinkled that is the fate of all women as they age. I've managed to hold back the years pretty well myself, but, face it, it's a losing battle. If the reason you want to be female is primarily motivated by a desire for youthful feminine beauty, you might want to reassess your plans. Take a good long look at your mother and father, and ask yourself which person would you be happy to be at that age? It was the first question my mother asked me when I revealed my intention of transitioning: "Do you really want to live out the rest of your life as an old woman?" she asked. "Better than as an old man!" was my reply.
Quote from: Clara Kay on November 23, 2017, 11:02:40 PM
If the reason you want to be female is primarily motivated by a desire for youthful feminine beauty, you might want to reassess your plans. Take a good long look at your mother and father, and ask yourself which person would you be happy to be at that age?
Wise words. When you get down to it, MtF transition is really about taking on the social gender roles of a woman. The physical transformation is a means to that end. If your primary reason for transitioning is physical, then you're going to have a rough time. Society does not take kindly to women who think or act like men.
Interesting replies and a lot of what has been said I have felt similar. To Clara though, not sure if you were talking to me specifically when you said if my only reason to be a trans is for physical reasons? The answer is no, actually. I have plenty of reasons for being trans and the main reason is because I have a female mind, thoughts, feelings, and emotions. Not to drag religion into it but also a female spirit. Being a girl is my true and real self, however she is in a male body and i feel awkward everyday because of it. Basically, i am too scared and nervous to go through a transition, HRT, and surgery right now.
I get a lot of anxiety and depression, i'm still questioning whether i want to look like a woman or if i could find a way to be happy and content with looking like a male. I'm in the in between stage and i am kind of confused, that is why i came to this site for guidance but i know i need to see a therapist. It is crucial i see one or i will always be in pain for the rest of my life both mentally and emotionally. I am angry at God too, though i love God, i am still upset he put me in a male body. He has his reasons though regardless if we understand them or not.
Ever since i was a child, i felt out of place, that i did not belong, that something was missing. The missing thing was me looking like a male even though i truly act like a woman, my dad has even said i act womanly sometimes and have more compassion than most guys. In my opinion women seem to be more compassionate and caring but there are some girls who can be coldhearted too, it depends. Nonetheless, yes envy is the right word to use.
Am i mistake though? I sometimes think i should just die, maybe in the next life God will set things straight and if i ask him sincerely he will make me a female. Ask and you shall receive as the Bible says. I spend a lot of time in prayer for God to give me some sort of sign or answer that i should go through with transition or to help me get rid of this grief and torment i go through and be able to go through life living as a normal man instead of being trans but this is something that was ingrained into me since birth. It's not like i decided one day "hey im going to be a trans!". No, you don't choose to be something so hated upon and ridiculed and very misunderstood by society.
Women are extremely lucky being women in my view, some women don't feel that way, and society does mistreat women especially in various other parts and countries of the world besides the United States. I hate the extremist muslims, they degrade women the most and they are very misogynistic. Bunch of pigs they are. The God i believe in created everyone equally and on equal standing with equal opportunity whether you've got a penis or vagina. That really shouldn't matter, a woman can do anything a man can do if she puts her mind to it. If a woman wants to have a lot of muscle like a man, all she has to do is go to the gym and work out. I mean common sense, the only thing different is our genetics and DNA.
Quote from: Clara Kay on November 23, 2017, 11:02:40 PM
Take a good long look at your mother and father, and ask yourself which person would you be happy to be at that age? It was the first question my mother asked me when I revealed my intention of transitioning: "Do you really want to live out the rest of your life as an old woman?" she asked. "Better than as an old man!" was my reply.
This reminds me of an experience I had playing with Faceapp (for those who don't know, its an app that a lot of use to get an idea of what we might look with hrt). I used the "old" filter on my male picture and wanted to cry looking at it. I then ran it on the female version of me from the app, and it was outright heartwarming. No one wants to grow old, but looking at that picture I knew that if I'm going to age, I want to do it as a woman.
It's hard to tolerate being in a man's body when you are a woman though regardless im happy you are transitioning Roll and best of luck to you, my friend.
100% envy..but not bitter. Just, wow, do you know how lucky you are kinda way.
I'm constantly admiring clothes etc..which probably looks like i'm sneakily checking thrm out in a different way
It's there and it's real. I always thought (knew) something was wrong with me lol
So happy to finally work to fix it.. it'll be a a little while though
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There is always hope. Don't give up! Be brave, women who are trans or FTM's probably have envy towards men too. It works both ways, the point is you can transition if you truly wanted to feel more natural and true to who you feel you truly are. Nothing wrong with trans people, there is something wrong with many people's perception of us.
We are just different from the norm, so we get misunderstood, ridiculed, stereotyped, disrespected, hated...and much more negativity, stupidity, and pettiness spewed at us even death threats and some go as far as murdering trans people. All in all we are normal people.
Sigh, it really irks me how narrow minded and prejudiced some people can be, unless they walk in our shoes they've got no right to be so judgmental and tell us that we are outcasts or freaks or whatever their tiny brains conceive us calling us.
I often feel something is wrong with me too though as i've siad in my long post above...usually i chalk it up to just being different but the only thing different with me that needs fixing is transitioning to a more natural female body then i'll be more comfortable with who i am. I'm glad science and technology has come such a long way that we can actually transition, i feel bad for people in the old days who were trans who couldn't do anything about looking more like the person they felt they were.
Quote from: echo7 on November 24, 2017, 12:03:27 AM
If your primary reason for transitioning is physical, then you're going to have a rough time. Society does not take kindly to women who think or act like men.
This is a tough one. From an observational perspective, I would agree with this. Society does not take kindly to women who act like men.
But it also plays right into the hands of a lot of TERF arguments.
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Fortunately, i don't really think or act like a man, that's one of the main qualities i have for being trans despite being in a male body...in a sexual situation, being sexually attracted to females is also not solely a manhood thing either. I like exploring her body, giving her pleasure, and seeing what i could be experiencing if i was her on the receiving end...when i was 16 and gave my neighbor a handjob i didnt let him give me one back in return because i only wanted to exploring and experiment with my bisexuality and also my female mindset towards giving pleasure to men. It wouldn't have worked the same if he did it in return for me then that would have made me feel more manly, either way its complicated. I usually just like pleasuring my partner but i rarely let my penis get some because that would make me feel like a man.
Hmm, i used to envy them alot as a women myself, specially the popular. But as i get older and older, the jealousy and envy disappears more. (i am still young). I dont feel so much envy or jealousy anymore. But i used to, i dont think jealousy or envy is good.
I envy women every single day, their long hair, their mannerisms, their lips, their figure, literally everything about them, when I see a girl that I want to be, I get this pang in my stomach, and a shower of sadness that I'm not female, which lasts for a few seconds.
When I'm dressed, then I feel like I am a woman, and feel like I relate to them
Its not so much about being pretty it more about experiencing life as a woman. When I was growing up I wished I was a girl I didn't care if I was the plainest girl in school just to being a girl would be enough. One thing that makes me envious is seeing young girls just goofing off and hanging out , that's something I will never have.
Most women compare themselves to other women. Welcome to the club.
I suppose you can call it jealousy, but I see it as normal behavior. I want what they have because I see myself as one of them.
Life can be so unfair. I want to experience life as a full fledged woman, i wish there was an option of choosing what you would be born as biologically but we get no such choice. We have the choice to transition, we are born transgendered and we can go through physical transition. Of course we can never be fully women biologically because we cannot get pregnant and give birth like a biological female can. That is something i will always wish i could do, the joy of life growing inside me and giving birth i will never get to experience, at least not in this life.
I had to meet a transgender woman throigh my job last week. She was stunning and even knew herself she was "pretty" and fully passable.
I was green with envy..and she had no idea
Haha :D
I'd say you shouldn't be envious as much as learning how to be like them and exploring your own womanhood and compare it to them especially if they are biological females. I don't try to copy other people though, i stay true to myself...which is part of being a transgender isn't it?
As another said, envy is the likely word you're seeking. It sounds as though you are a transgender female, like myself, but feel free to correct me.
Being envious of what you've always wanted but that *seems* so impossible to attain is normal. From someone who's gone through the mental and physical transformation know there is hope to achieve what you seek.
If you work for an Apple retail store most of medical needs would be covered by insurance. No matter your identity or your goals, you can attain them one step at a time.
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This is a sore spot for me. I just watch them in the lunch room at work, all sitting together and chatting and I know I am not welcome. It's always been like this. :'(
Quote from: GrayKat on November 25, 2017, 12:05:25 AM
This is a sore spot for me. I just watch them in the lunch room at work, all sitting together and chatting and I know I am not welcome. It's always been like this. :'(
Are you out?
Quote from: nyteshade on November 24, 2017, 07:35:09 PM
As another said, envy is the likely word you're seeking. It sounds as though you are a transgender female, like myself, but feel free to correct me.
Being envious of what you've always wanted but that *seems* so impossible to attain is normal. From someone who's gone through the mental and physical transformation know there is hope to achieve what you seek.
If you work for an Apple retail store most of medical needs would be covered by insurance. No matter your identity or your goals, you can attain them one step at a time.
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Any other kind of insurance help cover the costs? I dont work for Apple nor do i have any future plans to. How much does HRT and transition surgery cost in total? I have heard it is somewhere between the 5k to 7k range and this can vary and be even more money. I'll make a lot more money in the future once i become a graphics designer, only work at a convenience store right now but i'm on disability insurance for more money and benefits as well. Does disability insurance help with the costs? It helps with a lot of other things and makes it so you can pay your bills without too much strain on your wallet and it covers other medical things so i'm asking since transition surgery and HRT is considered medical, does it help with that as well? I can basically see a therapist for free and i have in the past but it wasn't for being transgender, it was for something else.
Yes as I've said many times i am a trans girl.
Quote from: hiddengirlsheila on November 25, 2017, 09:30:32 AM
Any other kind of insurance help cover the costs? I dont work for Apple nor do i have any future plans to. How much does HRT and transition surgery cost in total? I have heard it is somewhere between the 5k to 7k range and this can vary and be even more money. I'll make a lot more money in the future once i become a graphics designer, only work at a convenience store right now but i'm on disability insurance for more money and benefits as well. Does disability insurance help with the costs? It helps with a lot of other things and makes it so you can pay your bills without too much strain on your wallet and it covers other medical things so i'm asking since transition surgery and HRT is considered medical, does it help with that as well? I can basically see a therapist for free and i have in the past but it wasn't for being transgender, it was for something else.
Your insurance coverage will dictate a lot of how expensive things are. In a wildly varying way. I am a software engineer and for many of us, coverage is high and expenses are low. It can, however be the opposite very easily.
Always remember no matter the weight on your shoulders, you can reach your goal by putting one foot in front of the other. Remember to take breaks; you will get there.
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Thank you for the encouragement nyteshade, you sound like a very wise person. Would medicaid cover some of the expenses? What about medicare? Is medicare better than medicaid?
Quote from: hiddengirlsheila on November 24, 2017, 04:44:19 PM
Life can be so unfair. I want to experience life as a full fledged woman, i wish there was an option of choosing what you would be born as biologically but we get no such choice. We have the choice to transition, we are born transgendered and we can go through physical transition. Of course we can never be fully women biologically because we cannot get pregnant and give birth like a biological female can. That is something i will always wish i could do, the joy of life growing inside me and giving birth i will never get to experience, at least not in this life.
Back when I was younger, maybe 8 or so I can't quite remember, I used to believe that everyone chose if they wanted to be a boy or a girl and would then walk through the door they chose and then be born. I used to be so mad at myself for having chosen "the wrong door". Now I know better. So I took a fireaxe and chopped down that womanhood door and ran through haha
Quote from: hiddengirlsheila on November 25, 2017, 05:23:44 PM
Thank you for the encouragement nyteshade, you sound like a very wise person. Would medicaid cover some of the expenses? What about medicare? Is medicare better than medicaid?
I think it varies state by state for medicaid, I know nothing about medicare. In GA where I am, and I imagine most states, medicaid does not cover costs at all as far as anyone will tell me(no one will come out and say it outright, they just give me the run around when I call people),
but some things get caught under more general charges. For instance, if your GP does your hormones and it is also your primary general health checkup, it would definitely cover those appointments, so that will depend heavily on your doctor. (I personally chose to go with a group experienced with HRT over my GP and pay out of pocket.) I also found out that my bloodwork is covered if I do it through the hospital here and not a private lab, but that is just according to the hospital and I am a littttttttttttle leery about if medicaid is going to fight me on it. (But I have to also get bloodwork in general for other issues, so if I can get the timing lined up I should be able to get everything done no questions asked as part of a big package. They make me do a lot of extraneous bloodwork anyway.)
Quote from: hiddengirlsheila on November 25, 2017, 05:23:44 PM
Thank you for the encouragement nyteshade, you sound like a very wise person. Would medicaid cover some of the expenses? What about medicare? Is medicare better than medicaid?
Medicare is for 65+ generally. Medicaid, except in states where Republican governors refused federal funding to say they were strong against Obamacare, provides insurance coverage up to 1.38x the income defined as poverty level. If you qualify for medicaid, some transgender services will likely be covered in your area. Private insurance often provides some insurance as well, with the typical pattern to cover GCS for MTF/FTM, hormonal therapy for both, and top surgery for FTM. Better and worse plans exist all over the spectrum.
Quote from: hiddengirlsheila on November 24, 2017, 05:05:58 AM
Sigh, it really irks me how narrow minded and prejudiced some people can be, unless they walk in our shoes they've got no right to be so judgmental and tell us that we are outcasts or freaks or whatever their tiny brains conceive us calling us.
The problem is that they never can walk in our shoes. The closest they can get is if they deliberately put themselves in a similar situation as an experiment and that's not going to happen with most of them. But sometimes people do this with surprising results (such as when Norah Vincent dressed/lived as a man, and found she was beginning to suffer stress and anxiety and depression as a result of leading a "double life" - while the aim of her experiment wasn't to find out about what transgender people have to deal with, she did uncover a bit of it in the process and this was on TV for a lot of people to see).
People are narrow minded because they're usually intellectually lazy. Most people won't expand their mental horizons unless forced to, and trans issues are some of those that are tricky even for people who are trans to get their heads around at first. So in a sense I don't blame them. They have literally no idea where we're coming from until you sit down with them and talk about what it's like as if you're both on the same level.
Regarding the OP, I think jealousy features quite a bit in the troubles of trans people, from what I can see and read. That's what makes me laugh when a particularly ignorant cis person says trans people are "out of touch with reality". Trans people are absolutely in touch with reality, and normalcy - they know exactly what it is and they want it as well, in nearly all cases. I am reading it all the time on here and elsewhere - transwomen's desires usually being "I want to be a normal woman. Like those around me". Demonstrates a clear understanding of what normal reality is, and that being in the situation we are in is wrong and detrimental to our health. The situation we find ourselves in is rather abnormal, but the state we want to be in is usually one of normality. I figure the envy of that normality is a perfectly natural state of mind for any human being.
QuoteBetter and worse plans exist all over the spectrum.
Private insurance is extremely variable.
In my home state Illinois, it is illegal for an insurance plan to broadly discriminate and use wording such as excluding all transitional coverage. But my last employer was from MS and down there they can openly discriminate against anyone, anytime.
I'm still stuck paying for my old crappy insurance under COBRA. I can't get an ACA policy because the system said I might qualify for Medicaid. I now must wait for the "system" to get around to telling me if I get IL Medicaid or not. By the time they decide, open enrollment will be closed for the year. If I don't qualify for Medicaid I will be stuck with COBRA until next year assuming the system still exists by then.
Quote from: Viktor on November 26, 2017, 06:43:26 AM
The problem is that they never can walk in our shoes. The closest they can get is if they deliberately put themselves in a similar situation as an experiment and that's not going to happen with most of them. But sometimes people do this with surprising results (such as when Norah Vincent dressed/lived as a man, and found she was beginning to suffer stress and anxiety and depression as a result of leading a "double life" - while the aim of her experiment wasn't to find out about what transgender people have to deal with, she did uncover a bit of it in the process and this was on TV for a lot of people to see).
YES! Thank you for mentioning Norah Vincent, I had been struggling to remember her name for years. I saw her while I was arbitrarily flipping through channels around when her book came out, and I happened to land on a CSPAN book club thing interviewing her for a brief moment. In a bit of pure latent trans-ness, I stopped and watched the segment intently of course.