Well I was in a totally awkward position last night at work on of my male coworkers and friends hit on me, I think. We where on break and he said that I look beautiful and that he would date me if he was not married, I did say thank you and giggled but unfortunately he is not my type. There is zero attraction to him. Than we were talking about some other stuff and than he asked on how my boobs feel than said he would like to feel them. I have not offended by it just shocked and honored per say as I don't know what to say or do. This is the first time a male coworker says this, I work with less than 10 males, I just don't know what to say
I'd be in HR so fast it's make his head spin. Whether I was the target of that behavior or not. That is beyond inappropriate.
Asking you out is OK, asking to feel you up is crossing the line.
At work anyhow, I have had guys ask me that in social settings though. And if I like them, we have fun.
Apparently guys try this all the while.
It's something I cannot relate to.
Still, if he tries anything you don't want report his ass.
You've just as many rights as any other girl
I'm sorry, but even asking about your boobs was inappropriate. Cis guys think it's perfectly ok to ask a transwoman personal questions they would NEVER ask a Cis woman. That's messed up.
Quote from: Julia1996 on January 26, 2018, 10:13:56 AM
I'm sorry, but even asking about your boobs was inappropriate. Cis guys think it's perfectly ok to ask a transwoman personal questions they would NEVER ask a Cis woman. That's messed up.
There are plenty of guys that do the same crap to cis women. #metoo is about that.
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I don't want to get him in trouble he is a friend also and has been there to help me before. It is just awkward I have never experience this side before. So for me it is just weird. I just did not think I was anything special I know I still need a lot of work. I never expected this at least not right now. I am going to have to talk with him and explain some stuff to him and let him know
Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on January 26, 2018, 11:25:30 AM
I don't want to get him in trouble he is a friend also and has been there to help me before. It is just awkward I have never experience this side before. So for me it is just weird. I just did not think I was anything special I know I still need a lot of work. I never expected this at least not right now. I am going to have to talk with him and explain some stuff to him and let him know
That's a good call. He simply may not have realised he's taken a step further than he should.
Guys tend to be pretty dense Iin situations like that :)
Quote from: Julia1996 on January 26, 2018, 10:13:56 AM
I'm sorry, but even asking about your boobs was inappropriate. Cis guys think it's perfectly ok to ask a transwoman personal questions they would NEVER ask a Cis woman. That's messed up.
I've had 3 guys ask me for sex after finding out I transitioned. (Part of the reason I'm stealth now) What makes them think this is ok? I really don't get it.
I've run into this with a colleague as well as two bosses. In your case, since he's a friend and he's married I'd have a heart to heart talk with him. I'd say he's looking for quickie sex (...like many guys me thinks) and for various reasons there is this perception that trans women are sex machines willing to say "yes" to most anything or something.
Hopefully you can patch things up and keep your friendship through talking it out.
I think it's the "She-Male" image syndrome (made up by me) that gets some guys acting this way. I mean how many, seriously, have any inclination about trans women other than she-males?????
Honestly, the "She-Male" image was probably the number 2 reason I held off for so long not letting Cassi out
Please be careful what you accept as flattery. This can lead to being treated like an object and not a human.
Tell him you're flattered but he will be flatter if he asks you again. They know the court is taking away your legal right to object. Women have been under siege for years. My first experience was when women wanted to wear pants and the powers that be (men) went crazy. Women could not walk past a construction site without harassment. The ladies I worked with would ask me to escort them across the shop floor. Now having said that I have known many women that appreciate a hug. We talk here about hugs all the time. It's human contact and is not meant as sexual. You can look at the bright side. He asked before groping. Cis women are usually not so lucky. Either way it is inappropriate.
Quote from: DawnOday on January 26, 2018, 12:24:20 PM
Tell him you're flattered but he will be flatter if he asks you again. They know the court is taking away your legal right to object. Women have been under siege for years. My first experience was when women wanted to wear pants and the powers that be (men) went crazy. Women could not walk past a construction site without harassment. The ladies I worked with would ask me to escort them across the shop floor. Now having said that I have known many women that appreciate a hug. We talk here about hugs all the time. It's human contact and is not meant as sexual. You can look at the bright side. He asked before groping. Cis women are usually not so lucky. Either way it is inappropriate.
Your comment about the hug caught my eye. Back before I retired a memo came down from HR stating that hugging was not permitted. Hugging usually occurred when someone returned to work after an extended leave of absence. However, the word "perception" came up and while you or I may feel that it is not sexual, we have no control over another's perception.
One problem transwomen have is that no matter how good we look, a lot of men don't actually consider us women. Last year one of my brother's friends felt by boobs. He certainly did not have my permission. When my brother asked him why he thought it was ok to grab a woman's boobs he said he would never do that. My brother told him he just did and his response was " oh come on. Julia's not REALLY a girl". That's the attitude a lot of CIS guys have towards us. My brother threw him out and hasn't been friends with him since that happened.
Quote from: Julia1996 on January 26, 2018, 02:46:44 PM
One problem transwomen have is that no matter how good we look, a lot of men don't actually consider us women.
Exactly. A lot of men do not consider trans women as real women. That's why all these things happen.
Quote from: echo7 on January 26, 2018, 03:10:34 PM
Exactly. A lot of men do not consider trans women as real women. That's why all these things happen.
There are all sorts of dawgs in this here world, some with four legs and some with three.
Sorry this happened to you natalie.ashlyne. The problem is it seems to bother you enough that you write about it, which makes it wrong no matter how you look at it. I understand not getting him into trouble and maybe giving him a free pass this time is what you want to do. Just be careful and if it happens again, you may need to consider HR or at least tell him clearly no.
I had an odd incident earlier this week too and while I really try to get over it, I still cannot shake it.
Please stay safe!
That's a bit too much at work. I used to compromise my self integrity (I'm such a lady lol) before transitioning because I thought I was worthless. I'm slowly regaining this which is so important. Just know that no man or person can belittle or disrespect you if you don't allow it. Sometimes we do that enough to ourselves though..
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Quote from: Julia1996 on January 26, 2018, 02:46:44 PM
One problem transwomen have is that no matter how good we look, a lot of men don't actually consider us women. Last year one of my brother's friends felt by boobs. He certainly did not have my permission. When my brother asked him why he thought it was ok to grab a woman's boobs he said he would never do that. My brother told him he just did and his response was " oh come on. Julia's not REALLY a girl". That's the attitude a lot of CIS guys have towards us. My brother threw him out and hasn't been friends with him since that happened.
That's a big part of it. Along with that, many people still can't separate sexuality and gender. In their minds any one that would transition mtf must be doing it to have sex with as many men as they can.
On the original post, totally over the line. I think any guy that says they would want you if they weren't married is inviting you to ignore that fact that they are married and telling you that if you say yes, they aren't leaving their wife for you.
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I wonder what his wife would think of this inappropriate and wrong request.
Right is right and wrong is wrong. This looks wrong. Does not pass the smell test. This stinks.
So, in his mind, it is not okay for you two to date because he is married, but it is okay to feel your boobs if you allow it? Seems like a disconnect here.
It would be kind and appropriate to talk with him to let him know he crossed the line, this makes it clear that this type of request is unwanted. You perhaps can continue to be friendly to the degree you are now, your talk would set the boundaries.
I am sorry that this happened to you.
Telling you that he'd ask for a date if he wasn't married is a clumsy way to ask you for a date. The nice way out of that is to pretend it is a clumsy compliment and say "Thanks, but you're not my type" or some such brush off. The important part is that he understands that you mean no.
Asking to feel you up is way over the line. There's no "nice" way to deal with that, and you shouldn't try. Again, it is important that he get the message that asking is inappropriate. "Don't even think about it" is about as nice as you want to get, and it would be perfectly appropriate to apply more anger.
From his point of view, he was trying to see if you had boundaries and if you would enforce them. If he gets the idea from your response that you have no boundaries or that you will not enforce them, he will try again.
I can understand not wanting to get HR involved on the first occasion. But if it happens again, that is persistent harassment, and HR should be involved.
Thank you everyone for your replies and your help and concerns, I have dealt with it I have spoken to him and explained and he does understand see I did not want to bring it to management for a few reasons as he is a friend and has helped me out before and I am the President of our union and I did not want to make it bad for him so I was counseled and given materials by my Labour officer on how do deal with this and that is what I did. He understands that it was wrong and did apologize to me and promised it would not happen again to me or anyone else. So I am pleased with this and I really do thank every one that responded I appreciated all the love and support.
Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on January 26, 2018, 10:27:05 PM
Thank you everyone for your replies and your help and concerns, I have dealt with it I have spoken to him and explained and he does understand see I did not want to bring it to management for a few reasons as he is a friend and has helped me out before and I am the President of our union and I did not want to make it bad for him so I was counseled and given materials by my Labour officer on how do deal with this and that is what I did. He understands that it was wrong and did apologize to me and promised it would not happen again to me or anyone else. So I am pleased with this and I really do thank every one that responded I appreciated all the love and support.
Darn! And I was sooooo looking forward to hearing that he was the cornerstone of the new S&L at _____st and ______ave :(
Quote from: Cassi on January 26, 2018, 10:34:49 PM
Darn! And I was sooooo looking forward to hearing that he was the cornerstone of the new S&L at _____st and ______ave :(
I just wanted him to wake up and realize that was wrong and not to do it to anyone again which for me was fair. I would rather educate someone when I can than make them lose there job.
Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on January 26, 2018, 10:46:29 PM
I just wanted him to wake up and realize that was wrong and not to do it to anyone again which for me was fair. I would rather educate someone when I can than make them lose there job.
I was just pulling your leg. Totally understand and have always tried to educate before adjudicate :)
I concur, it was highly inappropriate he even asked you about your boobs. I'm a big believer that not everyone knows how to interact with other intuitively. You need to educate him. People can learn.
If he's a coworker he shouldn't even REALLY be complimenting you, especially on work time.
As a male I had to become very selective in what I said to female coworkers in the past. "You look nice" or "nice outfit" or something like that is okay. Generally my standard was if I couldn't say the same thing to a guy (or at least close ie "someone cleans up well" ) then don't say it.
We should be erring on the side of caution. Its not JUST if the recipient is offended anymore. We live in such a culture that someone overhearing it would be offended on your behalf and action something beyond your control.
Food for though at least :)
--Sasha