Some version of the thread title is evoked in several discussions here daily, usually in reference to the fears people have about coming out or being out. I don't deny at all that transgender people may be targets for violence, but in today's society, who is not such a target? A while ago, I did the math:
http://www.renaemadisongage.com/2017/01/check-the-math/
The gist of the blog post is that while it is true that transfolk are murdered, some even because they are transfolk, the statistics on violence in the US do not, on closer review, lend much credence to the worry that being trans is especially dangerous as opposed to being, well...non-trans.
I'll let you digest this and/or react to it before I say anything more in this thread.
I think it depends on where one lives, the subculture they live in and their activities. On top of that, it also depends on one's personality and how one carries oneself. Situational awareness helps too. Predators know their prey. Don't be prey and if you end up being prey do anything necessary to defend one's life. If someone was going to hurt me or worse, I have no problems punching their ticket.
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Knowing what people, behaviors, activities and placrs to avoid is a big help in not becoming a victim
"I'm not dead yet" :laugh:
The one flaw I see in the logic is that there are many more of them than there are of us. If I did not live in a diversified city I don't know what I would do. Move I suppose. Beyond death Trans folk are Let's look at some other figures. As a white man. I have never been harrassed. Am I just lucky or privileged. Yet 69% of all transgender folk have been harrassed. As a white man, I have never been kicked out of a bathroom. Yet 49% of the public believe transwomen should use the mens room and subject themselves to violence. Only 4.6% of the population commit suicide compared to 41% for trans folk. If you don't think this makes for a hostile environment, I don't know what does. There are more ways to die than being murdered. Being in the closet because of public perception is one.
I feel no more at risk than I did before. Where we live people are very polite and quite genuine. It would be easy to get paranoid about people MIGHT think or do, but that's counterproductive.
I live in the Deep South and the last time I felt threatened in any way was in 1975. That was only because me and my friends had the bright idea to go to a not so good part of Atlanta when diversity was not part of the vocabulary and racial tensions were high. Even then we just moved out smartly and avoided trouble.
Since I have started this I have never felt any threat.
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Last year a trans* person in the UK sought and received asylum in New Zealand claiming that this county was not safe.
I was utterly baffled, I've been full-time now for nine months, and haven't experienced a single negative situation. I don't walk alone down a dark street, no woman would if they can avoid it, but otherwise I live the life I lead as a man. Everyone I have come into contact with has been polite and courteous. My life is a happy one, and safe as for any other woman.
"The only thing to fear is fear itself".
Those who conquer this problem can look forward and grow. Those who can't will always struggle.
I choose to look forward and grow.
X
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The article makes an interesting point, the stats show that trans murders are at about the same percentage of the total number of murders as the trans community is in the wider community, which indicates that it's likely not a targeted thing.
I don't like the way it assumed that all trans people who are killed are killed because they are trans, it seems disingenuous. It seems dishonest, as without a sworn and signed statement from the killer, YOU don't know what they were thinking. Some of these people were probably killed for the most prosaic reasons - wrong place, wrong time, a woman, a <insert other minority group>..
This is likely to cause dissent in the trans community as it removes some of the "victimhood" some trans people seem to aspire to. Yes, I said it out loud, some trans people seem to want to be victims - it gives them something to scream about.
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 01:35:59 PM
The one flaw I see in the logic is that there are many more of them than there are of us.
There is a flaw in my logic, or rather in my process, but this is not it. I took data from non-similar sources in order to compare the 27 trans deaths with some sort of a national average. It's the closest I could get to seeing if transgender murders were out of proportion. If anything, they seem to be lower, but any time you are combining information from a variety of sources, you run into potential problems with statistical analysis. I would be wide open to a cleaner method if you have any suggestions.
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 01:35:59 PM
If I did not live in a diversified city I don't know what I would do. Move I suppose.
I doubt it. This is because most of us stay relatively close to home and tend to make our residency decisions based on other factors (schools, employment opportunity, etc). I would be willing to bet that most transgender murders have actually taken place "in diverse cities", because disproportionate number of murders occur in cities in general.
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 01:35:59 PMAs a white man. I have never been harrassed. Am I just lucky or privileged. Yet 69% of all transgender folk have been harrassed.
Good point, but I am only taking on the issue of homicidal violence here.
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 01:35:59 PMOnly 4.6% of the population commit suicide compared to 41% for trans folk. If you don't think this makes for a hostile environment, I don't know what does.
I think it's an outlying (never reproduced) statistic, and that even now, you are misusing it. The Williams Institute survey (2014) asked the question, "Have you ever attempted suicide?" 41% answered in the affirmative. Nevertheless, none of those who answered in the affirmative actually committed suicide, so
the true rate of suicide in that cohort was 0%. I have observed in my professional practice that only a tiny fraction of those who are evaluated in the ER for "suicide attempt" have actually made one at the time. The Williams Institute report itself cautions that questioners potentially used this yes/no question as a proxy to indicate they had engaged in self-harm...pretty much the same thing I observe in my practice. 41% makes for a great headline, but it isn't remotely factual. We ought not to be so hungry for validation that we turn to unconvincing data.
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 01:35:59 PMThere are more ways to die than being murdered. Being in the closet because of public perception is one.
Nicely put. I couldn't agree more.
Quote from: rmaddy on January 28, 2018, 02:19:28 PM
There is a flaw in my logic, or rather in my process, but this is not it. I took data from non-similar sources in order to compare the 27 trans deaths with some sort of a national average. It's the closest I could get to seeing if transgender murders were out of proportion. If anything, they seem to be lower, but any time you are combining information from a variety of sources, you run into potential problems with statistical analysis. I would be wide open to a cleaner method if you have any suggestions.
I doubt it. This is because most of us stay relatively close to home and tend to make our residency decisions based on other factors (schools, employment opportunity, etc). I would be willing to bet that most transgender murders have actually taken place "in diverse cities", because disproportionate number of murders occur in cities in general.
Good point, but I am only taking on the issue of homicidal violence here.
I think it's an outlying (never reproduced) statistic, and that even now, you are misusing it. The Williams Institute survey (2014) asked the question, "Have you ever attempted suicide?" 41% answered in the affirmative. Nevertheless, none of those who answered in the affirmative actually committed suicide, so the true rate of suicide in that cohort was 0%. I have observed in my professional practice that only a tiny fraction of those who are evaluated in the ER for "suicide attempt" have actually made one at the time. The Williams Institute report itself cautions that questioners potentially used this yes/no question as a proxy to indicate they had engaged in self-harm...pretty much the same thing I observe in my practice. 41% makes for a great headline, but it isn't remotely factual. We ought not to be so hungry for validation that we turn to unconvincing data.
Nicely put. I couldn't agree more.
You never cease to impress me!
Hmmm... I guess I have managed to give the murderous throngs the slip without even trying!!!
There will always be fears about our world to cling to if someone chooses to to approach their life in that way... I'm sure Trans people get hit by buses, drown and have heart attacks too but, should worrying about that be a point of focus?... To each their own but,...I choose not to!
I have never felt threatened with violence by others since transitioning or let fear dictate my path... I go where my life takes me and have always been treated in a polite or, at minimum, civil enough manner by those I encounter...
Onward we go...
Ashley 😀❤️🌻
Quote from: tgirlamc on January 28, 2018, 02:50:00 PM
Hmmm... I guess I have managed to give the murderous throngs the slip without even trying!!!
There will always be fears about our world to cling to if someone chooses to to approach their life in that way... I'm sure Trans people get hit by buses, drown and have heart attacks too but, should worrying about that be a point of focus?... To each their own but,...I choose not to!
I have never felt threatened with violence by others since transitioning or let fear dictate my path... I go where my life takes me and have always been treated in a polite or, at minimum, civil enough manner by those I encounter...
Onward we go...
Ashley 😀❤️🌻
Good philosophy sister but now that you say trans people can get hit by cars I'm hiding in the closet :)
Just kidding.
Quote from: Cassi on January 28, 2018, 02:58:21 PM
Good philosophy sister but now that you say trans people can get hit by cars I'm hiding in the closet :)
Just kidding.
Venture back out of there in a few years sister.. With more cars having auto braking features these days, your odds should get better with time... 😀
Quote from: tgirlamc on January 28, 2018, 03:01:56 PM
Venture back out of there in a few years sister.. With more cars having auto braking features these days, your odds should get better with time... 😀
LOL, in a few years everyone will be driving Teslas.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 28, 2018, 01:29:05 PM
"I'm not dead yet" :laugh:
If the Devyln ain't dead we ain't gots nuthin to warry bout
I'd say your larger error is in comparing a statistic that is for the overall population. An approximately equal number of black and white individuals are murdered each year, yet blacks make up only 13.3% of the US population. Further, females are less than 1/2 as likely as males to be murdered in the US. So equal overall numbers don't mean there isn't addition risk to being perceived as transgender, in fact I have very little doubt that there is.
Nyt November 9, 2017
QuoteAlmost all the murder victims in the past several years have been nonwhite women. According to the National Center for Health Statistics, the annual murder rate for Americans ages 15 to 34 is about one in 12,000. But an investigation by the news organization Mic found that for black transgender women in the same age group, the rate was one in 2,600.
Beyond statistics, I'll take personal experience. Every trans female and most trans males and certainly many lesbians I know personally have been subjected to insults for no greater crime than walking down the street, many have been assaulted. None of which would apply to any of my straight white acquaintances. Of course also most (cis) females I've known have also been subjected to one or another sexual assault.
The point is, risk profiles are different for different populations.
I had never once in 60 years presenting as white male been subjected to harrassment on the street. Once I began dressing (non-passing) femme it took less than 2 weeks to the first one.
I have really good situational awareness which has served me well in staying away from trouble when it brews near me. It's kept me out of bar fights etc many times. I'm far more cautious now than when I was apparently cis male. Yes I'm 5'11 and muscular and more to the point know how to take care of myself, still I expect I'm far more likely a target than I was a couple of years ago and I've changed my behavior accordingly.
Quote from: SadieBlake on January 28, 2018, 03:13:25 PM
I'd say your larger error is in comparing a statistic that is for the overall population. An approximately equal number of black and white individuals are murdered each year, yet blacks make up only 13.3% of the US population. Further, females are less than 1/2 as likely as males to be murdered in the US. So equal overall numbers don't mean there isn't addition risk to being perceived as transgender, in fact I have very little doubt that there is.
Nyt November 9, 2017
Beyond statistics, I'll take personal experience. Every trans female and most trans males and certainly many lesbians I know personally have been subjected to insults for no greater crime than walking down the street, many have been assaulted. None of which would apply to any of my straight white acquaintances. Of course also most (cis) females I've known have also been subjected to one or another sexual assault.
The point is, risk profiles are different for different populations.
I had never once in 60 years presenting as white male been subjected to harrassment on the street. Once I began dressing (non-passing) femme it took less than 2 weeks to the first one.
I have really good situational awareness which has served me well in staying away from trouble when it brews near me. It's kept me out of bar fights etc many times. I'm far more cautious now than when I was apparently cis male. Yes I'm 5'11 and muscular and more to the point know how to take care of myself, still I expect I'm far more likely a target than I was a couple of years ago and I've changed my behavior accordingly.
Being aware of one's surroundings has always been a key to street survival or survival period. When Johnny Badguy is looking for a mark, he'll look for one who's not really paying attention for a number of reasons with two most important being the mark's unawareness and inability to fend off an attack, and the other when the person isn't really aware of what's going on, Johnny Badguy can get away with the vic not even having a decent description or info as to where from and where to Johnny went.
I got more verbal insults as a fat overweight man than I ever have as a trans-woman.
Regardless, I'm still a heck of lot more likely to get run down by a bus than become a hate-murder statistic.
I choose to look forward, grow, and live my life [emoji5]. X
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Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 03:25:05 PM
I got more verbal insults as a fat overweight man than I ever have as a trans-woman.
Regardless, I'm still a heck of lot more likely to get run down by a bus than become a hate-murder statistic.
I choose to look forward, grow, and live my life [emoji5]. X
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Add being hit by a meteor and you can hide in the closet with me :)
Quote from: Cassi on January 28, 2018, 03:26:23 PM
Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 03:25:05 PM
I got more verbal insults as a fat overweight man than I ever have as a trans-woman.
Regardless, I'm still a heck of lot more likely to get run down by a bus than become a hate-murder statistic.
I choose to look forward, grow, and live my life [emoji5]. X
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Add being hit by a meteor and you can hide in the closet with me :)
No, consarn it, it's about getting OUT of the closet! :laugh:
Quote from: tgirlamc on January 28, 2018, 02:50:00 PM
I'm sure Trans people get hit by buses, drown and have heart attacks too but, should worrying about that be a point of focus?
Each of these things is far more likely than being murdered, even for us.
I'm sure it's cosy, and got some lovely clothes in it, but I'm never going back in the closet again! [emoji5]
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Sitting here thinking about this, there are an order of magnitude more people who accept us and want the best for us than there are who murder us. More of us die at our own hands than are killed by another. :(
Don't be a 41%'er. Devlyn needs you around. :-*
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: SadieBlake on January 28, 2018, 03:13:25 PM
I had never once in 60 years presenting as white male been subjected to harrassment on the street. Once I began dressing (non-passing) femme it took less than 2 weeks to the first one.
You went from a privileged class to a non-privileged class. Are you really surprised that white men in America are less prone to be insulted (or assaulted)? Were you working to end white male privilege before you transitioned?
I'm not making the case that being transgender is easy. I am offering a bit of perspective so that closeted individuals might be able to cross oversold, irrational fear of murder off the reasons that they should remain hidden.
Quote from: Cassi on January 28, 2018, 03:26:23 PM
Add being hit by a meteor and you can hide in the closet with me :)
Seriously? We all have to die, honey. "Death by meteor" is on the top of my preference list. It would suck, but in a uniquely and totally awesome way.
I was telling a friend how I almost died on an ikea escalator, I'd defo take meteor over that!
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Personally I don't feel especially at risk in my location, only slightly more so than if I had not transitioned, a very small risk. If someone's hoping to get the jump on me, they are going to have to be good, or bring a gang. I tend to watch strangers like a hawk around me thanks to three or four experiences in younger years with people trying to beat me up or "get me alone" for other reasons. Nobody knows me well enough to know, where I am, so it would have to be some kind of random rage attack.
I feel more at risk of dying from an old person accidentally running me over with their car here, while they are marveling at the scenery. Village is probably 70% retired elderly people who keep to themselves.
Statistically, most people are murdered by people they know, people they are close to. I'm not close to people around here.
Quote from: rmaddy on January 28, 2018, 02:19:28 PM
There is a flaw in my logic, or rather in my process, but this is not it. I took data from non-similar sources in order to compare the 27 trans deaths with some sort of a national average.
Good point, but I am only taking on the issue of homicidal violence here.
Unfortunately murders are reported by local law enforcement and there is no regulation requiring them to do so. As a result the statistics are skewed. For instance the children of Sandy Hook are not listed in FBI statistics. Twenty seven trans deaths are what we know about. I venture to guess there are significantly more not reported. I know a transwomen in Vegas who was beaten within an inch of her life but by the news you never would have known it. And it was never reported as an assault.
I've been threatened and even attacked in the past, luckily I've been able to defend myself or avoid/get away so far :-\
The study suggests that several minority stressors – negative experiences related to anti-transgender bias – may contribute to elevated prevalence of suicide attempts among transgender people, such as experiences of harassment, family rejection, housing instability, and discrimination in health care. Over half of those who experienced harassment or bullying in schools reported lifetime suicide attempts, as did 57 percent of those who reported that their family chose not to speak/spend time with them. High prevalence of suicide attempts was also found among those who had ever experienced homelessness (69%) and those who reported a doctor or healthcare provider refused to treat them (60%).
The difference between attempts and success is, You're still alive to answer survey's. Just imagine if every one who attempted were successful?
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 04:27:29 PM
The study suggests that several minority stressors – negative experiences related to anti-transgender bias – may contribute to elevated prevalence of suicide attempts among transgender people, such as experiences of harassment, family rejection, housing instability, and discrimination in health care. Over half of those who experienced harassment or bullying in schools reported lifetime suicide attempts, as did 57 percent of those who reported that their family chose not to speak/spend time with them. High prevalence of suicide attempts was also found among those who had ever experienced homelessness (69%) and those who reported a doctor or healthcare provider refused to treat them (60%).
The difference between attempts and success is, You're still alive to answer survey's. Just imagine if every one who attempted were successful?
Yes, and it's against the law too :)
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 04:10:16 PM
Unfortunately murders are reported by local law enforcement and there is no regulation requiring them to do so. As a result the statistics are skewed. For instance the children of Sandy Hook are not listed in FBI statistics. Twenty seven trans deaths are what we know about. I venture to guess there are significantly more not reported. I know a transwomen in Vegas who was beaten within an inch of her life but by the news you never would have known it. And it was never reported as an assault.
The US murder rate in general is also just the ones we know about. You can fault me for assuming that rate of reportage is equal for all
comers goers, but if you're going to nitpick the stats, tell me how either a) you would improve on my analysis using existing metrics, or b) what statistical evidence there is to support the idea that trans people are more likely to be murdered.
I could have spoken with more statistical clarity on whether coral snakes are more dangerous than rattlers (they are), but if the question is "which one of them is more likely to be under my bed tonight, the answer is
neither."
1 We might wish for better statistics, because better data drive better strategy, but for now, those of you who are afraid you'll be murdered because you are trans trans should give some thought to lightening, which to the best of our knowledge is twice as likely to kill you. Yet, for some reason, there are not forums here lamenting the dangers of rain.
2Guessing from previous comments you have written, I don't think that you and I have come to drastically different conclusions about what is to be feared, and what is to be ignored for the sake of sanity. My concern is for those dealing with all the real concerns about coming out (hint: mostly, it's your family), but who are distracted by things we should neither lose sleep over, nor can do much about.
1 Just kidding. It's the coral snake. They love warming up between the covers of your bed. Be afraid. Be very afraid.2 Among which are flattening of curls, running of mascara and worst of all, bad ambient lighting.
Quote from: rmaddy on January 28, 2018, 05:12:31 PM
The US murder rate in general is also just the ones we know about. You can fault me for assuming that rate of reportage is equal for all comers goers, but if you're going to nitpick the stats, tell me how either a) you would improve on my analysis using existing metrics, or b) what statistical evidence there is to support the idea that trans people are more likely to be murdered.
I could have spoken with more statistical clarity on whether coral snakes are more dangerous than rattlers (they are), but if the question is "which one of them is more likely to be under my bed tonight, the answer is neither."1 We might wish for better statistics, because better data drive better strategy, but for now, those of you who are afraid you'll be murdered because you are trans trans should give some thought to lightening, which to the best of our knowledge is twice as likely to kill you. Yet, for some reason, there are not forums here lamenting the dangers of rain.2
Guessing from previous comments you have written, I don't think that you and I have come to drastically different conclusions about what is to be feared, and what is to be ignored for the sake of sanity. My concern is for those dealing with all the real concerns about coming out (hint: mostly, it's your family), but who are distracted by things we should neither lose sleep over, nor can do much about.
1 Just kidding. It's the coral snake. They love warming up between the covers of your bed. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
2 Among which are flattening of curls, running of mascara and worst of all, bad ambient lighting.
Statistics are cool for generalized trending but I personally have a philosophy for example, I have a 50/50 chance of winning the lottery, winning at slot machines, playing poker, having an accident. Either I do or I don't. Stats are nice but if I go someplace, I go. I try to be as safe as I can be, alert and drive as though everyone is trying to hit me but no matter what I do, if something is going to happen, it will happen.
Quote from: DawnOday on January 28, 2018, 04:27:29 PM
The difference between attempts and success is, You're still alive to answer survey's. Just imagine if every one who attempted were successful?
My point exactly. You shouldn't say 41% of trans people commit suicide using as support a survey where the correct percentage of the survey participants who actually did is zero. The problem with propagandizing an issue with bad data is that people tend to sniff it out, and thereafter they ignore you.
We ought to concentrate on the point of the thread: That gloom and doom about murder is not a realistic reason to deny yourself a happy life. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 28, 2018, 05:29:35 PM
We ought to concentrate on the point of the thread: That gloom and doom about murder is not a realistic reason to deny yourself a happy life. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Totally agree, no gloom here [emoji16]
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Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 28, 2018, 01:29:05 PM
"I'm not dead yet" :laugh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBxMPqxJGqI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBxMPqxJGqI)
All kidding aside, THE #1 worry of both my wife & I, both from the pre-jurasic era of the 60's-70's & 80's. Oh, and retirement plans are for in Hillbilly territory.
TBH - Between my experiences just outside the epicenter of the "Liberal/Progressive" universe known as NYC, and my experiences in rural "Deliverance" territory..... Rural West Virginia got this bucolic New Jersey "Village" 5 miles from Times Square NYC beat hands down for acceptance
DING DING DING DING DING, we have a winner! ;D :laugh:
Hugs, Devlyn
I agree the numbers of murders may not seam large but they were killed because they are trans. How many murders in 2016 were because someone is male or female or white or black?
I someone was murdered because of skin color the FBI would be involved.
In 2005, Jews were more the targets of hate crimes, in 2014, LGBT's were,
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/06/16/us/hate-crimes-against-lgbt.html
Here's the final fact on the matter:
Everyone DIES, but how do you want to LIVE?
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Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:
Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?
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Duh, trying to think of a song to quote in response. So far, only the good die young but then I'm not bad :(
Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:
Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?
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Quote from: rmaddy on January 28, 2018, 03:34:06 PM
Each of these things is far more likely than being murdered, even for us.
Exactly! 😀
When I talk with people about surfing they often ask... aren't you scared about shark attack? ... The answer is no!.. If you worry about that statically low occurrence, you will never enjoy your time in the water...
My old next door neighbor was the last person locally to be attacked by a great white and he was back out there with us as soon as he healed up... Living life...
I usually put it into dry land terms for them like... I bet you have walked in the woods despite there being bears out there somewhere and enjoyed the beauty of the forest without fear...
Live your life... Enjoy the beauty of the world around you... Love yourself, Love others and allow them to Love you...Appreciate each day!
Onward we go!
Ashley 😀❤️🌻
Thank you Ashley for putting it so well unless you are in an unusually dangerous place or situation there is more to deal with that will affect our lives if we let this keep us from living the haters have beaten us so lets go out there and LIVE life to the fullest it is how we will win
bobbisue :)
Quote from: Cassi on January 28, 2018, 06:23:20 PM
Duh, trying to think of a song to quote in response. So far, only the good die young but then I'm not bad :(
Here is the song you're looking for.
Neil Young
"My My, Hey Hey (Out Of The Blue)"
My my, hey hey
Rock and roll is here to stay
It's better to burn out
Than to fade away
My my, hey hey.
Out of the blue
and into the black
They give you this,
but you pay for that
And once you're gone,
you can never come back
When you're out of the blue
and into the black.
The king is gone
but he's not forgotten
This is the story
of a Johnny Rotten
It's better to burn out
than it is to rust
The king is gone
but he's not forgotten.
Hey hey, my my
Rock and roll can never die
There's more to the picture
Than meets the eye.
Hey hey, my my.
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Quote from: tgirlamc on January 28, 2018, 06:51:00 PM
Exactly! [emoji3]
When I talk with people about surfing they often ask... aren't you scared about shark attack? ...
People would ask me a similar question about jumping out of airplanes. But the fear was part of one hell of an adrenaline rush that just made you want to go back and do it again.
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Quote from: Deborah on January 28, 2018, 07:18:49 PM
People would ask me a similar question about jumping out of airplanes. But the fear was part of one hell of an adrenaline rush that just made you want to go back and do it again.
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I have a local trans woman friend who is a jumpmaster!
Btw... good pick with the Neil Young!!! 😀
Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:
Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?
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Neglecting that no that's not the final fact -- it may be so for you and that's fine ...
I've lived my life:
Achieving at a high level in 6 different professions, all stimulating and challenging
Working and playing outdoors including sailing, rock climbing, mountaineering, martial / energy arts, triathlon. Often solo in the backwoods I've learned to assess risk, be well prepared and careful and have in fact done fine when things didn't go according to plan.
Reinterpreted all of the above in the understanding of having been female and trans (because certainly some of the above originated in needing to prove myself as masculine long before I even knew what being trans was or that I was).
Here's what smart climbers who go out free-solo (no ropes) say: "the moment your brain tells you to *go for it* it's time to down climb". Risk assessment isn't something I blow off precisely because I've done a lot of stuff that people perceive as dangerous and you mitigate that with risk assessment and mitigation.
It's been well understood in the LGBT community for decades that we get bashed because we're visibly different and being or expressing something that doesn't fit into gender norms. I get that many people here didn't live through those times, however denying that there's risk is something I find extremely triggering.
These risks are a hell of a lot less than they were in the '50s, '60s or even the '90s and that's great and I'm right there wanted to see bashing become a thing of the past. I knew a trans woman who was murdered about 15 years ago and there's absolutely no question that the fact she was trans was the reason. Another death of a trans woman I didn't know but who was geographically close was caused when she'd been in an auto accident and when the EMT and police found she had a penis they refused her treatment and she bled out and died on the scene.
So yeah passing and safety are big things to me and not passing was an important element in not starting medical transition 15 years ago. It was the right decision, back then Drs still required we pass for treatment and that bar was virtually as far out of reach for me then as it is today.
Quote from: tgirlamc on January 28, 2018, 07:22:16 PM
I have a local trans woman friend who is a jumpmaster!
Btw... good pick with the Neil Young!!! 😀
Have my gold wings. Still hate heights.
Quote from: Rachel on January 28, 2018, 06:03:36 PM
I agree the numbers of murders may not seam large but they were killed because they are trans. How many murders in 2016 were because someone is male or female or white or black?
I someone was murdered because of skin color the FBI would be involved.
I'm not sure that they were killed because they are trans though, at least not the majority of them. If you look at the list of murders, it was often done by domestic partners. Were trans related issues a stresser? It's impossible to say, but they mostly weren't hate crimes in the classic sense.
I think there are two sides to the statistic:
1) Murder rates overall are largely overstated per capita. There is almost no way around this, it simply isn't as fatal to be trans in the western world as we sometimes fear. However...
2) The per capita rate for trans women
of color is, most likely, astronomical. (I say most likely as I have not ran the numbers, but considering the overwhelming majority of murders are trans women of color and people of color make up a smaller percentage to begin with, with probably a smaller proportion still of openly trans women, the extrapolation is that murder rate is going to jump far, far above the national average if it alone already puts us near the general population rate including Caucasian majorities.)
In either case though, I do go back to the first point in that it is exceedingly difficult to say it is because they were trans.
Moving beyond murder however, there are other considerations these stats do not address. I believe that, and admittedly this is entirely anecdotal, trans women are more likely to be targets of violence that falls short of murder in acts that are perpetuated
by strangers, mirroring previous years mentality towards racial minorities or lesbian and gay cis individuals. (Ie: the classic bunch of guys in a pick up truck with a confederate flag hanging off the back drives by scenario.) The distinction here is the "by strangers" assumption, as most acts of violence are carried out by family and friends, or at least acquaintances. It is hard to imagine a bunch of drunk rednecks pull over in that same pick up truck scene and beat up some random white "cis hetero-looking" guy.
I know that where I am, even in southeast GA, I don't fear going outside dressed because of getting attacked. I fear going outside because of my own self image (and a desire I have to have a clear delineation in my life when I move later this year).
I live in Northern California about 30 miles east of San Francisco.
I've been assaulted twice since I went full time 16 months ago.
The first time was in a shopping mall, using the Women's Room. A woman started kicking the stall door and cursing at me. I fled, and she followed through several shops screaming at me until the mall cops got her.
The second time was while walking home from the grocery store. A large unpleasant person asked me if I was a <obscenity for gay male> repeatedly while blocking my path. I ran into the street and around him, which he found hilarious. I had the pepper spray out and aimed when he caught up with me, and he backed off.
Both events were midday in public spaces, in areas normally considered quite safe.
Bad stuff can happen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Michelle_P on January 28, 2018, 07:32:09 PM
I live in Northern California about 30 miles east of San Francisco.
I've been assaulted twice since I went full time 16 months ago.
The first time was in a shopping mall, using the Women's Room. A woman started kicking the stall door and cursing at me. I fled, and she followed through several shops screaming at me until the mall cops got her.
The second time was while walking home from the grocery store. A large unpleasant person asked me if I was a <obscenity for gay male> repeatedly while blocking my path. I ran into the street and around him, which he found hilarious. I had the pepper spray out and aimed when he caught up with me, and he backed off.
Both events were midday in public spaces, in areas normally considered quite safe.
Bad stuff can happen.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm so sorry to hear about your incidents. Sadly, there are some sick people who feel that attacking someone that is not generally accepted will make them more important or noticed. Sadly, most of these people have an IQ lower than a monkey.
Yesterday, when I was at the VA for my voice therapy, I needed to go to the restroom. It had both male & female on it and was a single use room with a lock.
Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave but don't leave me.
Look around and choose your own ground.
Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.
Run, rabbit run.
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig another one.
For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave.
Pink Floyd
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 28, 2018, 07:41:21 PM
Breathe, breathe in the air.
Don't be afraid to care.
Leave but don't leave me.
Look around and choose your own ground.
Long you live and high you fly
And smiles you'll give and tears you'll cry
And all you touch and all you see
Is all your life will ever be.
Run, rabbit run.
Dig that hole, forget the sun,
And when at last the work is done
Don't sit down it's time to dig another one.
For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race towards an early grave.
Pink Floyd
Buffalo Springfield - For What It's Worth :)
"For What It's Worth"
There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking' their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
What a field day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly saying, "hooray for our side"
It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away
We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
We better stop
Now, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
We better stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look - what's going down?
Quote from: SadieBlake on January 28, 2018, 07:26:37 PM
Quote from: Megan. on January 28, 2018, 06:21:59 PM
Here's the final fact on the matter:
Everyone DIES, but how do you want LIVE?
...
Neglecting that no that's not the final fact -- it may be so for you and that's fine ...
...
Sadie, I don't know what books you've been reading, but yeah, death is pretty final. I hope you're not saying you're immortal! :laugh:
Hugs, Devlyn
I'm guessing that it was a faith reference, but that just makes it all that much harder for me to understand. The most religious people I know seem to live in incandescent terror of death.
That would belong in the Spirituaity forum. We're here to discuss why you Don't Fear The Reaper. ;)
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on January 28, 2018, 08:44:36 PM
That would belong in the Spirituaity forum. We're here to discuss why you Don't Fear The Reaper. ;)
Because seasons don't;
Nor do the wind the sun and the rain
We can be like they are
Quote from: rmaddy on January 28, 2018, 08:50:00 PM
Because seasons don't;
Nor do the wind the sun and the rain
We can be like they are
(https://humorinamerica.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/i-need-more-cowbell.jpg)
Quote from: Rachel on January 28, 2018, 06:03:36 PM
I agree the numbers of murders may not seam large but they were killed because they are trans. How many murders in 2016 were because someone is male or female or white or black?
I someone was murdered because of skin color the FBI would be involved.
Do you have proof that they were all murdered for being trans? No, I didn't think so. Some of these people may have been killed for other reasons.. Wrong place at the wrong time.. Robbery gone bad.. Drug deal gone bad..
The fact is, it's not as dangerous to be a trans person as some make it out to be. And we do no favours to anyone by promoting the idea..
This conversation is going south quickly, locked for review