So I know an older trans woman who is in her 40s and she transitioned a year ago.
She underwent breast augmentation, had electrolysis on body and face, had hair transplants and asked people to call her by her new name but she decided to not go on HRT.
I asked her why and she replied : " because I have never been vocal for HRT treatments . "
She also seams rather antagonistic against HRT and SRS.
I myself am a binary trans woman who has been on HRT for two years. One year very low dose, another year low dose and now low-average dose.
I like how I feel on it, my body orgasms are super feminine, I feel energetic and calm.
Why would a trans person not want to go on HRT and enjoy all these mental and physical changes?
Wasn't it difficult for doctors to insert implants in her armpits while she didn't have any previous tissue to work with?
They want a functioning penis.
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Quote from: Gertrude on February 24, 2018, 08:46:43 AM
They want a functioning penis.
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Hormones is not equal to not having a functioning penis, though?
Been on hormones for two years, low T and relatively high E and still have a penis that could function if I wanted it to function :-/ ?
I don't really understand it myself, but I think some people really don't like drugs. Or vaccines or doctors, etc.
Quote from: AnonyMs on February 24, 2018, 09:06:39 AM
I don't really understand it myself, but I think some people really don't like drugs. Or vaccines or doctors, etc.
That makes sense! A lot of people, cis or trans, have needle fear and are afraid of swallowing pills. I even heard about people popping pills with pudding to circumvent direct contact with the pill.
There are patches,... as well though. Even pellets.
Maybe they are non-binary or they are binary but don't like the changes of hormones on their mind? Maybe they only want the physical changes without the emotional changes?
Arisce Wanzer, a MtF top model is someone who comes to mind. She gave interviews about not liking how emotional her friends on hormones are,...
I wonder how they give them a breast augmentation though. I mean, they don't have any tissue in that area to cover the implant up with? Does it feel like two silicone disks under a flap of skin?
Quote from: Transfused on February 24, 2018, 08:53:01 AM
Hormones is not equal to not having a functioning penis, though?
Been on hormones for two years, low T and relatively high E and still have a penis that could function if I wanted it to function :-/ ?
Not everyone does and you'll find as you pass 50, it may go away. I would bet that those over 50 are more likely to need t to work well.
Quote from: Gertrude on February 24, 2018, 09:20:57 AM
Not everyone does and you'll find as you pass 50, it may go away. I would bet that those over 50 are more likely to need t to work well.
I have a friend that says her doctor gives her testosterone injections every few months to keep hers working. She is been on HRT for 4 years. :)
Hugs,
Chelsea
HRT isn't as safe as drinking a glass of water. There are side effects, some of which can kill you. Plus throw in family history and their own medical history.... I can see it no problem. The prime reason for taking HRT for me was for my head only, not the body. Not that I am complaining about those changes. I doubt just opting for the cheaper (in the long run) option of breast implants alone would have done me any good
I plan on going on T just long enough to get the permanent changes I want and then stopping. I don't want to be on medications for the rest of my life if there's any hope of avoiding it. Being beholden to prescriptions and doctors like that is... the opposite of good for my mental health, I'll say. And I've not had good experiences with it in the past, so I'd rather avoid such arrangements at all costs.
Because of my family. I want to remain a dad of my kids.
barbie~~
Quote from: BT04 on February 24, 2018, 10:42:20 AM
I plan on going on T just long enough to get the permanent changes I want and then stopping. I don't want to be on medications for the rest of my life if there's any hope of avoiding it. Being beholden to prescriptions and doctors like that is... the opposite of good for my mental health, I'll say. And I've not had good experiences with it in the past, so I'd rather avoid such arrangements at all costs.
I'm going the other way, but you may be overlooking the mental effects of going on T. The change is invisible, but at least in my experience huge. In many ways its more important than the physical changes.
Quote from: AnonyMs on February 25, 2018, 04:57:16 AM
I'm going the other way, but you may be overlooking the mental effects of going on T. The change is invisible, but at least in my experience huge. In many ways its more important than the physical changes.
True! I feel like a different person even though I don't look absolutely different.
The correct hormone mix is addicting. It gives you a reason to live where there was none before.
I have to admit I don't understand why someone would transition without hrt either but if they can be happy without it then cool. Personally I couldn't. I'm pretty sure I could have still been passable without hrt but I wouldn't have been as pretty and my boobs, hips, butt and thighs wouldn't have filled out. If I had just done BA I would have looked like a pencil with boobs. And male puberty didn't do much damage to me thankfully but that could have changed if I hadn't started Blockers and estrogen. I was only 17 so without hrt I might have developed more male characteristics as I got older.
Quote from: Julia1996 on February 25, 2018, 07:23:43 AM
I have to admit I don't understand why someone would transition without hrt either but if they can be happy without it then cool. Personally I couldn't. I'm pretty sure I could have still been passable without hrt but I wouldn't have been as pretty and my boobs, hips, butt and thighs wouldn't have filled out. If I had just done BA I would have looked like a pencil with boobs. And male puberty didn't do much damage to me thankfully but that could have changed if I hadn't started Blockers and estrogen. I was only 17 so without hrt I might have developed more male characteristics as I got older.
I was 3 years older than you when I started and male puberty had been mild on me too.
My voice was also very feminine. Who knows my voice would have dropped if I started later.
I was also lucky that my appearence stayed child-like which helped in my transition.
I experienced pelvic tilt as well which people who start after 25 years old don't experience usually.
Quote from: Transfused on February 25, 2018, 07:36:57 AM
I was 3 years older than you when I started and male puberty had been mild on me too.
My voice was also very feminine. Who knows my voice would have dropped if I started later.
I was also lucky that my appearence stayed child-like which helped in my transition.
I experienced pelvic tilt as well which people who start after 25 years old don't experience usually.
Yeah my voice could have dropped too and I might have developed facial hair which would have totally sucked.
Quote from: Julia1996 on February 25, 2018, 07:43:28 AM
Yeah my voice could have dropped too and I might have developed facial hair which would have totally sucked.
Arisce Wanzer is a MtF who transitioned without HRT.
She passes as long as she doesn't open her mouth. Looks more like a " femboy " than like a cis girl though. She still has the testosterone in her which will also masculinize her over time.
She also still secretes male pheromones.
I wonder how her boyfriend, Laith De La Cruz, who is FtM and cis passing, deals with it.
I guess he is bisexual because how could a straight male be attracted to a male body odor and a deep masculine voice?
She also is as thin as a stick with boobs. That " skinny boy look ".
As long as she is happy I guess.
I personally couldn't have transitioned without HRT.
The mental effects were as important as the physical effects.
Especially halting further masculinization and facial hair development.
I looked very child-like when I transitioned and if I had waited longer I could have had the misfortune of a late puberty setting in.
Estradiol also helped my bone plates fuse.
I will forever be only 5 feet 5 which is a great height for a girl.
My height, my voice and my small posture all were helpful in my transition to female.
The lack of facial hair also helped.
Was almost 20 when I started. Had I waited 5 years more the damage would have been way worse I suspect.
T can do a lot of irreversible damage on MtFs.
FtMs have the luxury of the ability to pass at any age.
Consider not every is dysphoric about the same thing. If dysphoria over your body is minimal but social dysphoria is great, blending in is more important than body modification. Passing with your clothes off isn't as important as passing with them on. It becomes a matter of putting your money where you feel it will do the most good.
Quote from: Dena on February 25, 2018, 11:06:00 AM
Consider not every is dysphoric about the same thing. If dysphoria over your body is minimal but social dysphoria is great, blending in is more important than body modification. Passing with your clothes off isn't as important as passing with them on. It becomes a matter of putting your money where you feel it will do the most good.
That is true! I know a few people with male bodies who dress like women, wear make-up and wear wigs but apart from laser hair removal they had no medical interventions.
Most of them look like men in women's clothes but are happy to be able to present as themselves. I respect them a lot for that. They look genuinely happy with the social changes and don't care for medical changes.
Someone famous who lives like that is Courtney Act who is genderfluid. They live sometimes like a man and sometimes like a woman. The person is on Big Brother now and does drag to express the female side of their genderfluid identity. She / he / they can really pass as a woman and look a bit like Kylie Minogue when they are in drag.
They claim to regularly have sex with straight guys but I must honestly say that I doubt the guys they sleep with are that straight, since Courtney has no boobs or hips when the clothing comes off.
Quote from: Transfused on February 25, 2018, 11:11:15 AM
That is true! I know a few people with male bodies who dress like women, wear make-up and wear wigs but apart from laser hair removal they had no medical interventions.
Most of them look like men in women's clothes but are happy to be able to present as themselves. I respect them a lot for that. They look genuinely happy with the social changes and don't care for medical changes.
Someone famous who lives like that is Courtney Act who is genderfluid. They live sometimes like a man and sometimes like a woman. The person is on Big Brother now and does drag to express the female side of their genderfluid identity. She / he / they can really pass as a woman and look a bit like Kylie Minogue when they are in drag.
They claim to regularly have sex with straight guys but I must honestly say that I doubt the guys they sleep with are that straight, since Courtney has no boobs or hips when the clothing comes off.
I think they are straight. I don't think sex is just boobs and hips. Courtney Act looks very feminine. Yes mostly her face but there's many women whose bodies are similar. Some women don't have hips and/or boobs because usually they're so skinny. There are men into that too not only curviness. Personally I need curves, breasts, hips and butt. Even my legs. I would cry if my legs lost their feminine shape. I'm 5'7, fairly pale, and I'd say curvy in all the right places. Dresses and skirts fit me nicely. But still my face is way behind my body sadly still.. [emoji17]
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Why do some MTF's transition without HRT?
If you're old, heart disease; if you're young, sex.
Erectile function has more to do with mental stimulus than with hormones, so still having it after HRT is pretty common. But the part of the male orgasm caused by the passage of seminal fluid through the urethra is pretty much over within days or weeks after starting HRT. And desire diminishes for a lot of people.
You can go from being horny all the time to wanting it only once every two or three weeks.
Some folks would rather combine male sexuality with female beauty.
Quote from: CarlyMcx on February 25, 2018, 07:37:42 PM
Why do some MTF's transition without HRT?
If you're old, heart disease; if you're young, sex.
Erectile function has more to do with mental stimulus than with hormones, so still having it after HRT is pretty common. But the part of the male orgasm caused by the passage of seminal fluid through the urethra is pretty much over within days or weeks after starting HRT. And desire diminishes for a lot of people.
You can go from being horny all the time to wanting it only once every two or three weeks.
Some folks would rather combine male sexuality with female beauty.
And some have spouses/SO that prefer the penis. :)
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Quote from: Transfused on February 25, 2018, 08:00:15 AM
Arisce Wanzer is a MtF who transitioned without HRT.
She passes as long as she doesn't open her mouth. Looks more like a " femboy " than like a cis girl though. She still has the testosterone in her which will also masculinize her over time.
She also still secretes male pheromones.
I wonder how her boyfriend, Laith De La Cruz, who is FtM and cis passing, deals with it.
I guess he is bisexual because how could a straight male be attracted to a male body odor and a deep masculine voice?
She also is as thin as a stick with boobs. That " skinny boy look ".
As long as she is happy I guess.
I personally couldn't have transitioned without HRT.
The mental effects were as important as the physical effects.
Especially halting further masculinization and facial hair development.
I looked very child-like when I transitioned and if I had waited longer I could have had the misfortune of a late puberty setting in.
Estradiol also helped my bone plates fuse.
I will forever be only 5 feet 5 which is a great height for a girl.
My height, my voice and my small posture all were helpful in my transition to female.
The lack of facial hair also helped.
Was almost 20 when I started. Had I waited 5 years more the damage would have been way worse I suspect.
T can do a lot of irreversible damage on MtFs.
FtMs have the luxury of the ability to pass at any age.
I got curious and went to YouTube and watched a video of her and her boyfriend. She's very pretty and certainly passable. I don't think her voice is that bad. It's a little deep but her speech patterns are female. I wouldn't think she's trans seeing her even if she talked. Some CIS women have deeper voices. My grandma gets Sir-ed over the phone a lot. In her case years of smoking have added to that. As far as her boyfriend goes, if they are happy with each other his orientation isn't really important but he could be straight. He is FtM and because of that he knows the struggles of being trans and for him her possible smell and deep voice probably aren't issues for him. As long as she's pretty and feminine in her behavior that's probably all he cares about.
I'm pre-T and I, apparently, smell like a dude - my husband didn't have a crisis of identity about it back when we thought I was a woman. I don't really see how smell is a dealbreaker here for somebody's straightness. In fact, that's pretty silly to think it would.
Quote from: Julia1996 on February 26, 2018, 07:48:38 AM
I got curious and went to YouTube and watched a video of her and her boyfriend. She's very pretty and certainly passable. I don't think her voice is that bad. It's a little deep but her speech patterns are female. I wouldn't think she's trans seeing her even if she talked. Some CIS women have deeper voices. My grandma gets Sir-ed over the phone a lot. In her case years of smoking have added to that. As far as her boyfriend goes, if they are happy with each other his orientation isn't really important but he could be straight. He is FtM and because of that he knows the struggles of being trans and for him her possible smell and deep voice probably aren't issues for him. As long as she's pretty and feminine in her behavior that's probably all he cares about.
I googled some pics as well and she looks absolutely gorgeous. If all that is without HRT then she's one lucky girl.
And to Transfused, I don't really have an answer but this topic reminded me of a Mexican youtuber called Mickey. She's absolutely gorgeous and passable (even her voice) and went from defining herself as an androgynous boy to defining herself as a trans girl but she doesn't take hormones. She made a video about it and said that she feels good like she is now, so she sees no need to take medication. I think she also found it kind of scary. I completely understand where she's coming from, but she's young (23 years old) so I always wonder how long will her feminine looks last, what if with age her body will start masculinizing more. Anyway here's a video of her so you can check her out, and of course is in Spanish:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWlG762fO5w
Both of them are extremely lucky to be so pretty without hrt. But I also wonder what the future will do to them testosterone wise. Personally I would be too scared to risk it.
Maybe they just like a good challenge?
"Yeah, I transitioned 10 years ago. Without HRT. No biggie" <breathes on fingernails, polishes them on their shirt>
Quote from: Julia1996 on February 26, 2018, 02:14:13 PM
Both of them are extremely lucky to be so pretty without hrt. But I also wonder what the future will do to them testosterone wise. Personally I would be too scared to risk it.
T drops as you age anyway so long term I suspect it would get easier.
Quote from: krobinson103 on February 26, 2018, 03:08:52 PM
T drops as you age anyway so long term I suspect it would get easier.
Isn't there peak in your late 20s and early 30s? I remember reading something about males getting manlier after their 27th birthday.
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Quote from: Colleen_definitely on February 26, 2018, 02:15:58 PM
Maybe they just like a good challenge?
"Yeah, I transitioned 10 years ago. Without HRT. No biggie" <breathes on fingernails, polishes them on their shirt>
:laugh: ;D :D
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on February 26, 2018, 04:52:08 PM
Isn't there peak in your late 20s and early 30s? I remember reading something about males getting manlier after their 27th birthday.
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Don't know about that. My T started to crash in my 30's and has been on the way down (with or without HRT) ever since. I didn't see any particular problem with that so I encouraged it.
T doesn't drop for everyone with age. For some it stays high whether for genetic reasons or something else related to diet and health.
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Quote from: Deborah on February 26, 2018, 06:55:43 PM
T doesn't drop for everyone with age. For some it stays high whether for genetic reasons or something else related to diet and health.
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Mine dropped after I had a bad flu and never came back well. It was down to 134.
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I thought long and hard about HRT, but I'll be starting in March.
Possible health complications were a factor, but on one level my hesitancy was about whether I was a complete woman the way I was, or whether I needed hormones to be a complete woman.
In the end I decided that I was as entitled to run on estrogen as I am entitled to wear contact lenses as a short sighted person.
Also, I am most dysphoric about not having breasts, and the idea of looking down and not seeing a seven inch penis is so appealing.
Hi Freya - I'm at the same point you are, except I don't yet have a start date for HRT. I've decided to start gradually by going herbal at first and growing my breasts as organically as possible. I have the same life issues to work through as most every other older trans woman. I'm preparing myself mentally and emotionally for the losses that I know may come so that, once the dust settles and whatever pieces fall into place do so, I'll start the pharma HRT. I'm so thankful to have found this community. It's so nice to know there are a lot of us girls out there, including the other ladies who are in their middle age and starting late (although I've known my true gender since I was about four years old). I hope for sweetness on the journey for you and for all of us.
XO
Sarah
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What exactly are the health concerns for hrt in ladies who are older?
Quote from: Julia1996 on February 27, 2018, 08:06:21 AM
What exactly are the health concerns for hrt in ladies who are older?
Mainly blood clots which can quickly kill you. However, one can reduce or eliminate this risk by staying healthy in all the other ways; not smoking, normal bodyfat, good diet, and lots of exercise. Those who are older that do those four things probably are healthier with a lower risk of negative HRT effects than the vast majority of people at any age.
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An aspirin a day wouldn't hurt. A vena cava filter could be used in cases where clots have happened.
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Quote from: CarlyMcx on February 25, 2018, 07:37:42 PM
Why do some MTF's transition without HRT?
If you're old, heart disease; if you're young, sex.
Erectile function has more to do with mental stimulus than with hormones, so still having it after HRT is pretty common. But the part of the male orgasm caused by the passage of seminal fluid through the urethra is pretty much over within days or weeks after starting HRT. And desire diminishes for a lot of people.
You can go from being horny all the time to wanting it only once every two or three weeks.
Some folks would rather combine male sexuality with female beauty.
Or just not care if you don't get it. Thats the way I feel, and in all honesty its better.
Quote from: Transfused on February 24, 2018, 08:23:29 AM
So I know an older trans woman who is in her 40s and she transitioned a year ago.
She underwent breast augmentation, had electrolysis on body and face, had hair transplants and asked people to call her by her new name but she decided to not go on HRT.
I asked her why and she replied : " because I have never been vocal for HRT treatments . "
She also seams rather antagonistic against HRT and SRS.
I myself am a binary trans woman who has been on HRT for two years. One year very low dose, another year low dose and now low-average dose.
I like how I feel on it, my body orgasms are super feminine, I feel energetic and calm.
Why would a trans person not want to go on HRT and enjoy all these mental and physical changes?
Wasn't it difficult for doctors to insert implants in her armpits while she didn't have any previous tissue to work with?
They make you feel normal and change your looks so much but in subtle ways that unless you had 100 different surgeries you couldn't replicate. I can't imagine not taking e. For me it's an anti depressant and makes e feel so natural. I ave no idea what I would do if I wanted to look/be a guy and then have to go off a drug that just "fits" my brain.
E is addictive lol but those that transition without it seem to need a bit more makeup? Or maybe that's just their style.
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T also is addictive. The body needs one or the other. I work better on e. Where it comes from (HRT or internally) my brain and body doesn't care. My first days on spiro were horrible as my body adjusted to the change.
Quote from: Gertrude on February 24, 2018, 08:46:43 AM
They want a functioning penis.
Nailed it.
There has been more than one romantic relationship between a trans woman and a gay male. With SRS the guy is gone. Its a shame but it happens.
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Quote from: Gertrude on February 27, 2018, 10:58:04 AM
An aspirin a day wouldn't hurt.
I asked my endo about this and he said the risks of aspirin outweigh any advantages. This would be the general case not specific individuals, and for the safe types of estrogen I'm on.
Quote from: FreyaG on February 26, 2018, 08:51:38 PM
I thought long and hard about HRT, but I'll be starting in March.
Possible health complications were a factor, but on one level my hesitancy was about whether I was a complete woman the way I was, or whether I needed hormones to be a complete woman.
In the end I decided that I was as entitled to run on estrogen as I am entitled to wear contact lenses as a short sighted person.
Also, I am most dysphoric about not having breasts, and the idea of looking down and not seeing a seven inch penis is so appealing.
Quote from: SarahFehrman on February 27, 2018, 07:19:46 AM
Hi Freya - I'm at the same point you are, except I don't yet have a start date for HRT. I've decided to start gradually by going herbal at first and growing my breasts as organically as possible. I have the same life issues to work through as most every other older trans woman. I'm preparing myself mentally and emotionally for the losses that I know may come so that, once the dust settles and whatever pieces fall into place do so, I'll start the pharma HRT. I'm so thankful to have found this community. It's so nice to know there are a lot of us girls out there, including the other ladies who are in their middle age and starting late (although I've known my true gender since I was about four years old). I hope for sweetness on the journey for you and for all of us.
XO
Sarah
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Hello Freya and Sarah
I am in the same boat as you, I believe. I have known I should have been a born a girl since age 4. I decided in December at age 62 to seek therapy and then HRT which I started 8Feb as a major part of my dysphoria is no breasts which I feel I must have along with female shapeliness.
I wish you both the best on your HRT journey. After only 3 weeks, I know it is for life for me!
Pamela
Quote from: AnonyMs on February 27, 2018, 11:13:50 PM
I asked my endo about this and he said the risks of aspirin outweigh any advantages. This would be the general case not specific individuals, and for the safe types of estrogen I'm on.
I had three clots in my right leg in 1993. A vena cava filter was put in 1999. When I fly or will be sitting in a car for hours on a trip, I'll take an aspirin. For me, it just aggravates my tinnitus. Some may have medical conditions that contraindicate it's use.
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