Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.
After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.
Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 12, 2018, 11:24:17 AM
Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.
After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.
Interesting.
Many men prefer cis-women for their sex partners. They still do not fully accept us as female even after we transition. This attitude, no matter how wrong and ignorant it may be, is just something we must deal with.
Men are a complete turn-off to me. As far as trans women and my lesbian ways I don't know yet.
Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 12, 2018, 11:24:17 AM
Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.
After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.
Men REALLY need to get over the 'gay' issue. What the hell are they afraid of? Speaking personally I have found it in the past to be bloody amazing!! lol
QuoteIf she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
lol. Well, I know pretty well by now that I'm unnatural and weird. And proud of it!!! ;D ;D ;D
Katie, I think you are correct. I got so much support after people found out I was staying with my wife. I know a lot of support would have vanished if I was also proclaiming being straight and going with a guy. So many guys are insecure with any potential questioning of their 'manliness.'
WAY too many dudes are insecure in their masculinity. Talk about precious snowflakes and fragile, blossoming flowers... they're as sensitive as a certain president's skin is orange!
Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 12, 2018, 11:24:17 AM
Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.
After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.
Katie, I think there is a lot of truth to that explanation.
There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us. People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male. So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt. It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.
Either explanation is an expression of homophobia and a profound misunderstanding of what being trans is all about.
Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 12, 2018, 11:24:17 AM
After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
Quote from: HappyMoni on March 12, 2018, 01:06:26 PM
Katie, I think you are correct. I got so much support after people found out I was staying with my wife. I know a lot of support would have vanished if I was also proclaiming being straight and going with a guy. So many guys are insecure with any potential questioning of their 'manliness.'
Quote from: BT04 on March 12, 2018, 01:39:44 PM
WAY too many dudes are insecure in their masculinity. Talk about precious snowflakes and fragile, blossoming flowers... they're as sensitive as a certain president's skin is orange!
Quote from: KathyLauren on March 12, 2018, 02:24:01 PM
There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us. People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male. So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt. It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.
Lol, Seth!
You are all more than likely correct. God, I have been around those conversations more than I ever wanted to. I tried to insert a different opinion every time, sometimes they considered it others not so much. It has been drilled into them so much. We can hope that they would be able to make up their own mind and choose their own path but how likely is that to happen? What is the percentage of children raised in Islam or Christianity that ever leave their upbringing to take their own path?
It should not be on us to change people's views but I am afraid that it will be. Just being a steady counter to that indoctrination by being normal when they expect abnormal, I don't know. I do know that if things continue the way they are the point will be moot, this generation coming up is waaaaay more tolerant at least in my corner of the world.
Now to blow your mind, have that conversation with a bunch of women. If my friends are any indication of the average female perspective, they feel the exact opposite way.
Quote from: KathyLauren on March 12, 2018, 02:24:01 PM
Katie, I think there is a lot of truth to that explanation.
There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us. People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male. So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt. It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.
Either explanation is an expression of homophobia and a profound misunderstanding of what being trans is all about.
I agree. Not many people understand that transition isn't a choice. Its a necessity. Then when you say you like guys - unlike being gay its strange. Why would you alter your body and likes guys?
To some people, it is a black or white issue. It reminds me of when a preacher said "God wants you to live your whole life either for Him, or for Satan. God does not like those that are Luke warm". I was like " so, that means no time to do anything for myself?"
I have noticed that the prettier transwomen YouTubers are, the more acceptance from their male audience they tend to get. There's always those that won't deviate from the idea they're a man though. They are also usually the ones who are the most shocked to learn someone that feminine used to be a man in the first place, so the more oblivious, face-value ones, unsurprisingly. If nobody had told them it'd never had occurred to most of them anyway lol.
Quote from: Lady Sarah on March 12, 2018, 05:04:43 PM
To some people, it is a black or white issue. It reminds me of when a preacher said "God wants you to live your whole life either for Him, or for Satan. God does not like those that are Luke warm". I was like " so, that means no time to do anything for myself?"
Some people need the security of facile thinking.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Quote from: Kylo on March 12, 2018, 05:20:59 PM
I have noticed that the prettier transwomen YouTubers are, the more acceptance from their male audience they tend to get. There's always those that won't deviate from the idea they're a man though. They are also usually the ones who are the most shocked to learn someone that feminine used to be a man in the first place, so the more oblivious, face-value ones, unsurprisingly. If nobody had told them it'd never had occurred to most of them anyway lol.
I think traditional standards of beauty or femininity definitely play a role in it. If they see an attractive, entirely passing transwoman they are far more likely to be okay with her liking guys without much thought. It's the same thing with gay guys. If a gay guy is effeminate, it's easier for straight cis men to wrap their heads around it. Meanwhile, you have someone who doesn't fit stereotypes come out and it's just the whole "Nooo, you're not gay, you like sports and hate musicals, bro!" and it throws them off.
Though in general I think it also plays into the common (at least cis-)male lesbian porn obsession a bit in that they think "I really like to watch lesbian porn, so it makes sense to me that someone might want to be part of lesbian porn", even though that of course is not what is actually happening. (And no, I don't mean in the sense of a certain banned topic. Simply that people with a more simplistic view of motivations may relate more to an imaginary motive that they use to justify a faux understanding and thus acceptance.)
I think Cis do not put too much thought into the trans sexuality issue.
When confronted with the prospect they may pick a comfortable opinion instead of expressing their view.
I think it is a victim of fast thinking instead of slow thinking. Fast thinking is on the exterior and akin to what we hear and see and instinctively do to get by safely. Slow thinking is analyzing the subject, weighing the evidence and coming to a conclusion based on fact. Most of our daily interactions is based on fast thinking. We have bias based on fast thinking.
It was the opposite for my brother. When I first came out to him as trans one of the things he said was " you like guys which is good". I also had a female friend who was very touchy and huggy (yuck) and Tyler had noticed it and he asked me if I was thinking of hooking up with her and I told him god no! He said good, he was glad. So of course I had to ask him if he would still accept me if I became lesbian. He said of course he would but that if I started liking females it would be really weird and hard for him to get used to.
Quote from: Julia1996 on March 12, 2018, 10:48:42 PM
It was the opposite for my brother. When I first came out to him as trans one of the things he said was " you like guys which is good". I also had a female friend who was very touchy and huggy (yuck) and Tyler had noticed it and he asked me if I was thinking of hooking up with her and I told him god no! He said good, he was glad. So of course I had to ask him if he would still accept me if I became lesbian. He said of course he would but that if I started liking females it would be really weird and hard for him to get used to.
I think thats because he is your brother and doesn't have to play the " I'm a man" game around you.
If it's just a bunch of guys, it may be like my story as none of them want to say anything else other than "I like lesbians" to keep their man points.
Course I'm really happy your brother was actually normal about it :)
Quote from: Roll on March 12, 2018, 07:03:37 PM
I think traditional standards of beauty or femininity definitely play a role in it. If they see an attractive, entirely passing transwoman they are far more likely to be okay with her liking guys without much thought. It's the same thing with gay guys. If a gay guy is effeminate, it's easier for straight cis men to wrap their heads around it.
Yesyesyes! It's like they are saying "If you are gay then make it so obvious so I know you are so I can act differently around you"
That's why I am in two minds about how people will react to me as I act male but I don't think male.
For me, acting as a stereotype female just isn't me.
I'm going to continue to press this topic with the guys and see how they go on
Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 12, 2018, 11:24:17 AM
Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.
After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.
Quote from: KathyLauren on March 12, 2018, 02:24:01 PM
Katie, I think there is a lot of truth to that explanation.
There's one other explanation, though, that is perhaps more harmful to us. People like to think that MTF trans people are "really" still male. So they see a straight trans woman as being a gay man in a skirt, and a lesbian trans woman as being a straight(-ish) guy in a skirt. It is a "does not compute" situation based on the malicious belief that our gender will always be our birth sex regardless of transition.
Either explanation is an expression of homophobia and a profound misunderstanding of what being trans is all about.
Yes Katie, that is usually my experience when discussing ->-bleeped-<- in general discussion.
Yes Kathy, many sadly do not see our transition as what is it but they still cling to birth sex in their minds. Plus the regular misunderstanding that sexuality and gender are the same - the customary error in thinking.
Pamela
I was with my brother the other day who's not accepting. Still uses my dead pronouns either know he seems to get being trans is biologic not psychological. Strange contradiction I know. But I was saying to him how I'm gay and it doesn't make the guys I go with any less gay to be with me. And he seemed rather skeptical. It's understandably hard for most cis people at first to get their head around the fact parts doesn't equal sexuality; as that's all we're taught at school or by society. It's refreshing to meet so many gay men who fully understand this; but must have difficult to accept being with an ftm at first.
It must be something that is peculier to the West. In Asia, especially Thailand, it does not not matter. I have men hitting on me knowing I am, by reputation a tg female. I have dated men professing their love for me and its not only me, but my other local tg friends also. Most tg girls here are not lesbian. Many are getting married. Strangly, many with western men. Maybe its the western men living in the West and feeling pressure from their western peers, that makes them put up a front.
Of course being gay here is no big deal either.
As sad or annoying as it may be...
I do understand the logic.
I mean in romance we all have preferences and maybe it is sad...
But it could have been any other way as well.
I personally prefer women but had any of my partners just *poof*
Woke up male i would have loved them still.
For me our bodies are just the vessels we make.
Our souls are always the same <3
We are just n a category where we are fragile and people are very misinformed,
And its not necessarily their fault.
Love is love and we all have preferences,
But love also has a way of confronting us,
Afterall its one of the most powerful forces.
Love. Attraction. <3
Hello Warlockmaker
It must be wonderful living in a place like Thailand where gender is not an issue like it is in the West.
Interesting that most MTFs there you say are not lesbian.
I get the impression from reading so many posts on this website (which mainly covers US, Canada, UK & Australia) that lesbian or asexual MTFs outnumber the straight or bisexual ones.
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on March 13, 2018, 08:07:40 AM
Hello Warlockmaker
It must be wonderful living in a place like Thailand where gender is not an issue like it is in the West.
Interesting that most MTFs there you say are not lesbian.
I get the impression from reading so many posts on this website (which mainly covers US, Canada, UK & Australia) that lesbian or asexual MTFs outnumber the straight or bisexual ones.
Pamela
Id just as easily have sex with a man i just...
Never have xD <3
Plus maybe its that western influence subconsciously pulling me one way.
But we're all people and we all want love <3
Lol.
<3
Cincy
I wonder if this is some form of narcissism. A lot of people can't see past their own nose or their own feelings.
Years ago, a gay friend of mine couldn't accept that some people were bisexual. He thought they were just afraid to be honest with themselves that they were gay. He was 100% gay and assumed every other gay or bisexual person would have the same attractions as him. He had a masters in psychology by the way.
Take care,
Paige :)
Pamela, I am equally suprised that tgs in the west are mostly lesbians. Many men here prefer tg women, claiming better communication and understanding. Older men like us because we are tighter and sexually more satisfying. I started with younger men and now kinda like older confident men. Finally, we are alot more interesting and beautiful than most cis women of equivalent age.
People were shocked when told them I was still interested in women. Most people in the US seem to think only gay men want to transition to women.
I decided to ask my dad and get his reaction. I asked him what he would think if I decided I was lesbian and what he thought about trans women who were lesbian. He said he didn't have a problem with anyone's sexual preference but that in my case he said he would have a hard time getting used to it. He said it wasn't a matter of accepting it, it was just that I had always been so boy crazy and liked guys so much that I wouldn't seem like me if I started dating girls. I think like Katie said guys go along with it being better for transwomen to be lesbian because they are in a group. I don't think they necessarily believe it. Guys are weird about lesbians though. Most straight guys think lesbian sex is very hot. I don't understand why but they do. Tristan and I were talking about bi people once and I asked him if he would approve if I was bi. He said he totally would and that it would be really hot to watch me with another girl. Yeah, ok. Ewww!
Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 12, 2018, 11:24:17 AM
Talking to some work colleagues about ->-bleeped-<-. It's a topic I am easily able to bring up.
After some discussion it's clear. If a MTF transitions and she still likes girls, that is okay, she is a lesbian. If she transitions and likes guys it's "unatural and weird"
I'm in that lesbian group but it makes me wonder if they genuinely belive that or that they are just afraid of maybe meeting a trans woman who likes men then they feel they have to question their sexuality.
Its the whole "gay" issue.
The male ego is very fragile. So yes, it's the homophobia that scares them the most. ( Even though if there attracted to a transwomen, it's because they like women.)
Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
Quote from: BT04 on March 12, 2018, 01:39:44 PM
WAY too many dudes are insecure in their masculinity. Talk about precious snowflakes and fragile, blossoming flowers... they're as sensitive as a certain president's skin is orange!
Exactly. The male ego is very fragile.
Sent from my LG-TP450 using Tapatalk
Who cares? No one's sexuality is based on their preference. If it was I'm sure my tongue would be down some girls mouth right now but guess what. it's not! Lol
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Quote from: Daisy Jane on March 13, 2018, 07:17:00 PM
People were shocked when told them I was still interested in women. Most people in the US seem to think only gay men want to transition to women.
Nice new Avatar pic Daisy Jane!
Quote from: Cassi on March 13, 2018, 10:35:00 PM
Nice new Avatar pic Daisy Jane!
Thank you darlin'! :) That last picture was nine months old and I just got a fresh cut yesterday.
Nice and in the same boat, lol.
Quote from: Julia1996 on March 13, 2018, 08:04:30 PM
I decided to ask my dad and get his reaction. I asked him what he would think if I decided I was lesbian and what he thought about trans women who were lesbian. He said he didn't have a problem with anyone's sexual preference but that in my case he said he would have a hard time getting used to it. He said it wasn't a matter of accepting it, it was just that I had always been so boy crazy and liked guys so much that I wouldn't seem like me if I started dating girls. I think like Katie said guys go along with it being better for transwomen to be lesbian because they are in a group. I don't think they necessarily believe it. Guys are weird about lesbians though. Most straight guys think lesbian sex is very hot. I don't understand why but they do. Tristan and I were talking about bi people once and I asked him if he would approve if I was bi. He said he totally would and that it would be really hot to watch me with another girl. Yeah, ok. Ewww!
Guy that like lesbian porn enjoy it, because they think seeing a man's penis might make him appear gay. And, they get to enjoy seeing the female bits of multiple women.
Quote from: Lady Sarah on March 14, 2018, 12:45:23 PM
Guy that like lesbian porn enjoy it, because they think seeing a man's penis might make him appear gay. And, they get to enjoy seeing the female bits of multiple women.
As my zen-like work colleagues say
What's better than a naked woman? Two naked women.
I don't think seeing a penis even comes into it, it's just straight men like naked women so if there are two or more that is better. :)
Quote from: CallMeKatie on March 14, 2018, 01:14:58 PM
As my zen-like work colleagues say
What's better than a naked woman? Two naked women.
I don't think seeing a penis even comes into it, it's just straight men like naked women so if there are two or more that is better. :)
Personally, I never had any desire to watch some guy doing it. Kinda like an armchair you know what :)