After a lot of serious consideration, I have decided to get revisions to my fairly recent facial surgery. I initially went to doctor Cardenas, and while I found his staff to be absolutely incredible, he did not go far enough with me, and I have been filled with regret/syaphoria since. I also now desperately want revisions.
I am going to dr. Lee on the 22nd for my breast augmentation. I already had a consultation about my ffs revisions with him last Monday, and put in a request on Friday with dr. Spiegel for a consultation. I already have spoken with each of these Dr before, and have reviewed their work with great scrutiny, but I cannot seem to decide who I should use for my revisions. I'm very nervous about the decision as I likely will not be able to anywhere for further revisions, so these really need to count.
Who would you choose? Why? Who do you think is more aggressive? After my ffs with dr. Cardenas, I feel very strongly that I look very androgynous. I can pass as either woman or man, which I do not like. And being 6 foot tall, the androgynous look is not something that is desirable at all.
The procedures that I plan on getting for my revisions include jaw contouring, cheek implants, and rhinoplasty.
I apologize for the cross post! I put it in the wrong part of the siteinitially, and I'm not sure how to delete it.
I went to Dr. Spiegel and had extensive FFS. He does very good work but he is not known to be aggressive.
It seams you have some very specific desires and it would be good to find out what they say.
You just had FFS and time is need for you to heal before another surgery. Perhaps the best way is to do things over time. I had jaw and chin contouring and a lower and mid facelift as well as other procedures. I was warned to have the face lifts a year after my jaw and chin contouring as it is only 80% effective when done together. I need to have my jaw line skin tightened a bit and will some day, perhaps in the fall. I may also look at buccal fat removal at that time.
Good luck.
Thanks for the reply in the advice! <3
I am currently at around month 4ish in my recovery. Definitely enough to see that the results are, for me, not where I want them to be. I also heal at a very alarming rate from anything, in part because of genetics, and in part because of my extremely healthy lifestyle and healthy diet. Most of the swelling is gone. There is some mild swelling along my jawline and chin, but it is very mild, and I definitely know that I want my surgery to be revised. It is really just a matter of selecting the proper surgeon at this point, I am absolutely getting my revisions in the next 3 to 5 months
Usually it's about a year before you'll be a candidate for revision. It may be longer with the brow. I would suggest that it's still swelling...and that's possible...but Dr. Cardenas isn't particularly known for his brow work.
Couple things to keep in mind. It may not be as bad as you think. If you posted some pics, I'd give an honest outside opinion. You don't want to sacrifice "good" in search of "perfect." If you do really decide on a revision, Spiegel is super expensive and I find his foreheads too flat. They look a bit fake to me. If you want that, go with Spiegel.
On noses and jaws...frankly, I think Spiegel is way too subtle. They look the same. I just had my nose done with Zukowski and you can check out my other post to see the result!
Lastly, you stole my spot on SM, Missy!!
P.S.
Andreja Pejic is 6'2, androgynous and gorgeous!
Judging from your picture I don't think you need revisions. You look like you pass pretty well now.
In a full face of makeup and in good lighting I pass. I want to read as female with no makeup so I can feel snug at yoga and at the gym or pool. I am more asking about which of the two surgeons I ought to choose.
Quote from: Clefairy on March 18, 2018, 06:26:31 PM
I actually no longer work for sm. I made everything I need for all my surgery, and met a very loving man a while ago who I have since fallen very deeply in love with. He doesn't like the idea of me working like that and has made it possible for me to pursue some bigger dreams :) I also don't like the idea of working while I'm this deeply in love. For a while sm was quite the racket though :p I was pulling around 2k a week without actually putting in effort.
I don't feel very comfortable posting pictures without makeup, but here is a recent one where I am wearing makeup. It's very hard to clock me when I am wearing makeup, but I definitely need the makeup to pass. I mean NEED. I feel like more androgynous features that might be sexy on cis women or just much harder for us to pull off. Without makeup they just become very masculine. I got clocked several times today while hiking with my boyfriend wearing minimal makeup. It's just humiliating and I want to feel comfortable walking on trails or being outdoors or swimming with no mskeup. Trust me. It's currently not my reality. I look genuinely genderless without it and my height and shoulders clock me.
I will not be having any additional work to my brow bone I don't believe. Cardenas did a decent job, though it is very flat which is not exactly what I wanted. It is still Within the female range though. I do not feel the same about my jawline or nose. There is also a hollow spot in my cheeks I want filled as it looks very masculine
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F9QmNm0w.jpg&hash=136bfc24959d1326ff37e9dd763e95a064f4db4b)
I agree with your assessment. I can't see much work needed on your brow..though, profile would be easier to tell. Place I can see strongest room for improvement is your chin. I do think a revision COULD be useful there. As well as a septorhino.
If it bothers you, do it. But you are gorgeous. As for SM, it's a great racket, but like you I mostly work there for surgery and am focusing on school and what not! Still, helped me save a nice chunk!
Kudos to you for being both so proactive and honest about your situation and needs. You have a great attitude. Probably helps to have a great boyfriend! I would definitely not recommend Spiegel for chin/jaw work. Gigi and Stef Sanjati both still have quite masculine chins and jaws after going to him. Same for noses.
That's MY opinion. People love Dechamps-Braly, if you can afford him. Haven't seen much of his work. I had my nose done with Zukowski like I said, you can see my results for yourself :)
Quote from: Clefairy on March 18, 2018, 03:24:53 PM
After a lot of serious consideration, I have decided to get revisions to my fairly recent facial surgery. I initially went to doctor Cardenas, and while I found his staff to be absolutely incredible, he did not go far enough with me, and I have been filled with regret/syaphoria since. I also now desperately want revisions.
I am going to dr. Lee on the 22nd for my breast augmentation. I already had a consultation about my ffs revisions with him last Monday, and put in a request on Friday with dr. Spiegel for a consultation. I already have spoken with each of these Dr before, and have reviewed their work with great scrutiny, but I cannot seem to decide who I should use for my revisions. I'm very nervous about the decision as I likely will not be able to anywhere for further revisions, so these really need to count.
Who would you choose? Why? Who do you think is more aggressive? After my ffs with dr. Cardenas, I feel very strongly that I look very androgynous. I can pass as either woman or man, which I do not like. And being 6 foot tall, the androgynous look is not something that is desirable at all.
The procedures that I plan on getting for my revisions include jaw contouring, cheek implants, and rhinoplasty.
I apologize for the cross post! I put it in the wrong part of the siteinitially, and I'm not sure how to delete it.
I went with Speigal and I got exactly what I asked for and I love his team. I am looking into revisions as well because when I had it in October I was still unsure of how far I wanted to go and would have gone farther if I had known what I know now and am about to contact him again to see what he can do. I would strongly recommend him.
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What do you mean by people clock you? I can't imagine anyone gendering you male
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Quote from: yayo on March 18, 2018, 08:52:24 PM
I agree with your assessment. I can't see much work needed on your brow..though, profile would be easier to tell. Place I can see strongest room for improvement is your chin. I do think a revision COULD be useful there. As well as a septorhino.
If it bothers you, do it. But you are gorgeous. As for SM, it's a great racket, but like you I mostly work there for surgery and am focusing on school and what not! Still, helped me save a nice chunk!
Kudos to you for being both so proactive and honest about your situation and needs. You have a great attitude. Probably helps to have a great boyfriend! I would definitely not recommend Spiegel for chin/jaw work. Gigi and Stef Sanjati both still have quite masculine chins and jaws after going to him. Same for noses.
That's MY opinion. People love Dechamps-Braly, if you can afford him. Haven't seen much of his work. I had my nose done with Zukowski like I said, you can see my results for yourself :)
Can you send me a link to your results? Thanks a ton by the way. And yeah, he is really great. I honestly couldn't be happier. I've been searching my whole life for this kind of love. It's really wonderful to finally have found it. Is dechamps good? I'm honestly not familiar with his work.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrImHGqe.jpg&hash=8da449d2dd9f42868ad0cfa303a523be9ff49228)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUefxMSP.jpg&hash=2a0c968fd81eb1eddfdeec110ef9ae88dbb02904)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL7AzHUV.jpg&hash=b992613f2a62ccc63c86e521edcc23ac67d09029)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fi9XQxiq.jpg&hash=7b0e995f3b92d65e921a428136ceed6a87c5eefb)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3QkaVIy.jpg&hash=58dba0993735b8b9ca11ef84abfa4c7da4cdd067)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqmE5Ec4.jpg&hash=477888ec59caf0ca3b4acd525dac1be28d38be9a)
That pic of me flexing was from today after hiking around 5 miles and doing all of my lower body exercises. I kind of had a panic attack halfway through hiking when I got clocked during a conversation with some of my boyfriend's friends that I had not met yet. He was great and doesn't care if people know, but I really do. Or just made me sick and I really want to get my revisions done asap
Could it have been your voice? That's something I'm insecure about
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Quote from: Clefairy on March 18, 2018, 10:57:40 PM
Can you send me a link to your results? Thanks a ton by the way. And yeah, he is really great. I honestly couldn't be happier. I've been searching my whole life for this kind of love. It's really wonderful to finally have found it. Is dechamps good? I'm honestly not familiar with his work.
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FrImHGqe.jpg&hash=8da449d2dd9f42868ad0cfa303a523be9ff49228)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FUefxMSP.jpg&hash=2a0c968fd81eb1eddfdeec110ef9ae88dbb02904)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FL7AzHUV.jpg&hash=b992613f2a62ccc63c86e521edcc23ac67d09029)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2Fi9XQxiq.jpg&hash=7b0e995f3b92d65e921a428136ceed6a87c5eefb)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F3QkaVIy.jpg&hash=58dba0993735b8b9ca11ef84abfa4c7da4cdd067)(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FqmE5Ec4.jpg&hash=477888ec59caf0ca3b4acd525dac1be28d38be9a)
So cute! Happy for you, hun!
(https://i.imgur.com/Traj2T4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/LPnaAUl.jpg)
My friend said Dr. Z did God's work on my nose as it used to be REALLY bad from most angles. Crooked, long, with the most prominent, Italian girl hump ever. I could privately send you my before.
People love Dechamps, but I haven't seen much of his work. He's kinda surpassed Spiegel in esteem in some circles, but certainly not fame. I find Spiegel's work to be too subtle. Zukowski is very aggressive, but noses are his real specialty, not jaws or brows. Still, some people are very happy with his work there.
Harrison Lee is kinda like Spiegel in the sense that he's very overpriced. Even more so. He worked on Caitlyn Jenner, so West Coast, he does all the girls out there. I dunno much about his results. Dechamps is also VERY expensive, but like I said, people love him.
I've seen excellent work from Bart Van De Ven, but he's in Europe and some people loathe him.
There is not one photo that you shared where I would clock you. Completely stunning just as you are. However, completely understand that it is you that must be content.
Am not sure if you are located on the east or west coast as Dr. Lee has offices in both LA & NYC. But if by chance you are visiting him in LA, take a look at Dr Kyle Keojampa. He is also on this site occasionally. Absolutely love how technical he is & the way he explains things.
On the outside, would recommend Dr Javier Rossi in Buenos Aires. Amanda Rosenfeldt is the contact & wonderful to work with.
May I ask what SM is? Feel silly asking, but am clueless about that part of the conversation.
Say hi to Susan and Vilma for me when you see Dr. Lee for your BA. He did mine 2 1/2 years ago and I get a lot of compliments on them. He also did my FFS at the same time and I am super pleased with his work. Dr. Lee started out working on teeth and jaws and that is one of his board certified areas of work. I only had upper facial work done but I think what he did is amazing. I'm one of the subjects he has is his results gallery so you may have seen what he did for me. I know it's a very personal decision but I've personally experienced Dr. Lee's work and I have been super pleased with what he's done for me. He also didn't try to over sell me on procedures. He told me that my cheeks and lower face were fine and he told me he wouldn't recommend doing anything to those areas.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/808/27022654418_b8522abcda_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/HaUaGN)
This is the picture that he has in his results gallery. The after picture was about a year after he did my surgery which was in Aug of 2015.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4790/38942870820_669e8649ea_o.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/22kfoKf)
This is what I look like today 2 1/2 years after my surgery. For the record I'm 56 now.
Jess
Clefairy, if you're getting clocked, then based on your pictures I'm certain it's your nose more than anything. I think your chin and jaw may only need minor work, if at all, but your nose looks quite masculine. Before FFS, I too had a very masculine nose - way more masculine than yours. Mine was very big, wide, hooked, and with a huge bump on the bridge of my nose. It was hideous. I went to Dr Zukowski for my FFS and he gave me a very cute and natural looking nose. It's perfect. IMO Zukowski is the best FFS surgeon in the world when it comes to nose work.
Although a feminine jaw and chin can help beautify a face, it's the forehead, brow, and nose that are the most critical for female gendering. Since my FFS, I have never been clocked or misgendered, even when I wear zero makeup. It's a great place to be, and I'm sure you'll get there too after a rhinoplasty.
Quote from: echo7 on March 19, 2018, 08:54:32 AM
Clefairy, if you're getting clocked, then based on your pictures I'm certain it's your nose more than anything. I think your chin and jaw may only need minor work, if at all, but your nose looks quite masculine. Before FFS, I too had a very masculine nose - way more masculine than yours. Mine was very big, wide, hooked, and with a huge bump on the bridge of my nose. It was hideous. I went to Dr Zukowski for my FFS and he gave me a very cute and natural looking nose. It's perfect. IMO Zukowski is the best FFS surgeon in the world when it comes to nose work.
Although a feminine jaw and chin can help beautify a face, it's the forehead, brow, and nose that are the most critical for female gendering. Since my FFS, I have never been clocked or misgendered, even when I wear zero makeup. It's a great place to be, and I'm sure you'll get there too after a rhinoplasty.
Nose is such an underrated part of passing I feel like. People focus on brows and jaws, but like Dr. Z said, the nose is the window into the face. I'm inclined to think that brow and nose are about equal in terms of the passing factor honestly, because both play a role in framing the eyes (where people focus).
I think people assume that because there are women with prominent noses you'd never see as trans, noses don't matter. But it's about shape, contour, etc. The masculinity of the nose. I'm shocked at how much just a rhino and fat graft with Dr. Z have improved my presentation just over two weeks out (so I still have swelling).
Anyway, I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say. I read in another post that Dr. C told her that her nose was fine and was inclined to think that was a big error.
Thanks for all the replies everyone! I'm actually about to give Dr Z I call right now. I sent an email last night after seeing what you all said but did not get a reply. My nose definitely needs a lot of work. I kind of wish that I had had doctor Cardenas do it while I was in Mexico, because he absolutely is great with noses as well.
I will let all of you know what is said. What are y'alls opinions on dr. Lees ability to handle rhinoplasty? He wants to charge me approximately 25000 for rhinoplasty, cheek inserts, and shaving my jaw once more. I will have another consultation with dr. Spiegel next week and will also let you know what he says. He charges $150 for a consultation and does not give out much information over the phone or through email.
How much did you pay with dr. Z? And for what procedures? Do you know how much each procedure cost individually? Thanks a ton
Quote from: Clefairy on March 19, 2018, 10:51:50 AM
What are y'alls opinions on dr. Lees ability to handle rhinoplasty? He wants to charge me approximately 25000 for rhinoplasty, cheek inserts, and shaving my jaw once more.
Dr. Lee also worked on my nose but it was for medical not cosmetic reasons. I am very happy with the results. He did do a little fine tuning on it while he was doing the other work. The price you were quoted is in line with what he charges for all of what he is planning on doing. I think the price may be less with some of the other doctors so it's all going to come down to what your personal preference is. I have friends who have gone to both Lee and Dr. Z and most are happy with their results. I have one friend who is very unhappy with her results from Dr. Z and she is very vocal about it. From what I've seen and read, Dr. Z has a specific look for almost all of his patients noses. Take a look at his results and see if that is the kind of look you want to achieve. Dr. Lee takes more of an individualized approach. Good luck with your decision and let us know how everything goes.
Quote from: Clefairy on March 19, 2018, 10:51:50 AM
Thanks for all the replies everyone! I'm actually about to give Dr Z I call right now. I sent an email last night after seeing what you all said but did not get a reply. My nose definitely needs a lot of work. I kind of wish that I had had doctor Cardenas do it while I was in Mexico, because he absolutely is great with noses as well.
I will let all of you know what is said. What are y'alls opinions on dr. Lees ability to handle rhinoplasty? He wants to charge me approximately 25000 for rhinoplasty, cheek inserts, and shaving my jaw once more. I will have another consultation with dr. Spiegel next week and will also let you know what he says. He charges $150 for a consultation and does not give out much information over the phone or through email.
How much did you pay with dr. Z? And for what procedures? Do you know how much each procedure cost individually? Thanks a ton
If you haven't already spoken with him, tell him Abigail is "spreading the word." He'll know what I mean!
Dr. Z is very competitive in his pricing, I paid $8,000 for a septorhino and fat graft to the lips and cheeks. The quote for everything for me was like...$15,000, including brow, nose, fat graft.
Quote from: I Am Jess on March 19, 2018, 11:27:30 AM
From what I've seen and read, Dr. Z has a specific look for almost all of his patients noses. Take a look at his results and see if that is the kind of look you want to achieve. Dr. Lee takes more of an individualized approach. Good luck with your decision and let us know how everything goes.
This could be true of any surgeon, but what I see in my nose so far is that the shape is very different from other girls I've seen and known who went to him. Realistically, giving everyone the same nose isn't possible even if he wanted to.
I just got off the phone with D Brady. They quoted me at $35,000 approximately for a jawline shave, rhinoplasty, and cheek feeling implants. That seems extremely high. Is there even any indication that he is worth it? I can't seem to find any before and after pictures of his work.
I also spoke with the receptionist for dr. Speigel just now, and was not given a quote, but I believe he will not be able to see me and the time frame I would like to be seen. We definitely keep him busy lol.
It is looking like my choice is between dr. Lee and Dr Z. How quickly was Dr Z able to see you after your consultation? I am waiting on a call back from his office right now. Also, does anyone else have opinions on Dr Z vs Dr Lee? Thanks again for all of the support and help with this decision. It is definitely not an easy one. This part of the process always makes my head spin.
Quote from: Clefairy on March 19, 2018, 12:12:53 PM
I just got off the phone with D Brady. They quoted me at $35,000 approximately for a jawline shave, rhinoplasty, and cheek feeling implants. That seems extremely high. Is there even any indication that he is worth it? I can't seem to find any before and after pictures of his work.
I also spoke with the receptionist for dr. Speigel just now, and was not given a quote, but I believe he will not be able to see me and the time frame I would like to be seen. We definitely keep him busy lol.
It is looking like my choice is between dr. Lee and Dr Z. How quickly was Dr Z able to see you after your consultation? I am waiting on a call back from his office right now. Also, does anyone else have opinions on Dr Z vs Dr Lee? Thanks again for all of the support and help with this decision. It is definitely not an easy one. This part of the process always makes my head spin.
I don't understand the Dechamps craze. He's supposedly the gold standard but his prices are outrageous and there are few results to look at. The ones I've seen? Nothing amaaazing. But people love him. I'm thinking it's an emperor's new clothes thing...
You should be hearing from Cole shortly. Cole will set up a phone consultation with the doc. I didn't do my in person consultation until the day before my surgery. Things usually move pretty quickly with Z's office and I think scheduling is about 2 months out max.
It's an extremely hard decision and all factors have to be considered VERY carefully. In the end, it's looking at results, weighing what you can afford without sacrificing quality, and making a decision. You can find endless positive AND negative reviews of any surgeon, in the end it's a small part having faith.
I will also say the money is not as much of an object for me right now. I have saved up sufficient funds to finish my surgical transition at this point, and I am concerned primarily about results. The big fear is having what happened with Cardenas happen again, and not being satisfied, but having already expended my funds on revisions, not being able to go in for round 3. Round 3 is not something that I ever want to get to.
I can't seem to find results for braly anywhere. I was very impressed with the stuff when I spoke on the phone with them, and I am very much into the idea of someone doing x-rays before deciding what I do or do not need. If anyone else has had there surgery with braly, please weigh in! I guess the way I ultimately feel is that it truly is a crap shoot at the end of the day. We could go to any surgeon in the world and be happy or unhappy with the results. I feel like every time one of us is going to get surged, we spend so much time talking to other people on chatting and researching, but as long as the doctor is competent, all of that means nothing alongside what happens in those few short hours when they are actually cutting into us. It's kind of hard to think about how much faith we have to put into these surgeons. I love them for what they do.
I'm in nyc I'll ask my endo here on Thursday about Dr. Lee when I see him. He recommended other surgeons to me last time. But if I remember correctly they do all surgeries for trans, which I don't feel comfortable with... when I called them up just for ffs it seemed they thought I want srs then too. I just want the (delicate) focus on my face.
Anyway this process is stressful.. I just know it's necessary for me
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Dr Z can be pretty aggressive
Maybe D Bradly advertises aggressively. I had lasik eye surgery and had the same problem. The "gold standard" place wanted $8000 for the procedure, I went to lasikmd, paid $3200 for the same operation.
The expensive place gave me excuses for the cost, the cheaper place, gave me a free consultation and when I researched the surgeon who was doing my eyes. He was also a university professor who teaches eye surgery at the university of Toronto a major Canadian medical school. Him being good enough to teach other doctors surgery was good enough for me.
The expensive place was sadly just advertising in my case.
Clefairy,
Please Please don't rush into getting a revision so fast. I have a lot of sympathy for your situation and totally understand why you would be so desperate for getting another FFS surgery.
I had my ffs with Deschamps 2 yrs ago and while it was good, it wasn't extraordinary. Based on the your pics and your expectation to be fully clock proof( even in sweaty/messy situations like yoga or hot summer hiking), in my opinion neither Deschamps, Spiegel or Lee could get you there. They can make improvements but not get u fully where u want to be. They cannot make most trans faces fully passable because of 1)limitations posed by male skulls, 2) Their inability to do certain procedures 3) Lack of advanced FFS techniques to fully feminize a male skull into a female one.
In you specific case, you do have a beautiful face. However the major trans identifier that I see is the length of ur midface and the nose which creates a elongated space between the eyes and lips. Shaving the jaw too much might accentuate this problem further. And cheek implants might only camouflage this problem without truly solving the main problem. Thus creating a strange look of feminine on top of masculine base structure.
My suggestion is:
1)Take time in understanding what facial features are causing the trans identification as opposed to rushing to a surgeons without proper grasp of the actual problem urself. I covered ur lower and middle face with one hand and ur upper face by itself looked female. But vice versa, it looked androgynous.
2) Maybe lower ur expectations a bit. Its very very hard to fully feminize most trans faces where on one can clock even in absolute raw state. In your case, i think it has potential to look really good, but not with traditional ffs.
I did 2 yrs of analyzing on what i needed for phase 2 despite wanting to fix things right away and having funds to go to any surgeons however times i wanted. Why? Because I observed most people still look off after ffs and overdoing ffs creates a strange ...weird look most times. I was in your position 6 months post op my ffs where I almost booked phase 2 with Dr Lee but luckily changed my mind last minute. I now finally feel ready and plan to pursue phase 2 in September with a surgeon that can truly feminize the lower & mid face bone structure to full potential not just basic jaw shaving or cheek augmentation.
Finally, unless u already had lower body feminization surgeries, the shoulder to hip ratio might be a problem as well.
Quote from: humblegirl on March 27, 2018, 05:51:56 AM
Clefairy,
Please Please don't rush into getting a revision so fast. I have a lot of sympathy for your situation and totally understand why you would be so desperate for getting another FFS surgery.
I had my ffs with Deschamps 2 yrs ago and while it was good, it wasn't extraordinary. Based on the your pics and your expectation to be fully clock proof( even in sweaty/messy situations like yoga or hot summer hiking), in my opinion neither Deschamps, Spiegel or Lee could get you there. They can make improvements but not get u fully where u want to be. They cannot make most trans faces fully passable because of 1)limitations posed by male skulls, 2) Their inability to do certain procedures 3) Lack of advanced FFS techniques to fully feminize a male skull into a female one.
In you specific case, you do have a beautiful face. However the major trans identifier that I see is the length of ur midface and the nose which creates a elongated space between the eyes and lips. Shaving the jaw too much might accentuate this problem further. And cheek implants might only camouflage this problem without truly solving the main problem. Thus creating a strange look of feminine on top of masculine base structure.
My suggestion is:
1)Take time in understanding what facial features are causing the trans identification as opposed to rushing to a surgeons without proper grasp of the actual problem urself. I covered ur lower and middle face with one hand and ur upper face by itself looked female. But vice versa, it looked androgynous.
2) Maybe lower ur expectations a bit. Its very very hard to fully feminize most trans faces where on one can clock even in absolute raw state. In your case, i think it has potential to look really good, but not with traditional ffs.
I did 2 yrs of analyzing on what i needed for phase 2 despite wanting to fix things right away and having funds to go to any surgeons however times i wanted. Why? Because I observed most people still look off after ffs and overdoing ffs creates a strange ...weird look most times. I was in your position 6 months post op my ffs where I almost booked phase 2 with Dr Lee but luckily changed my mind last minute. I now finally feel ready and plan to pursue phase 2 in September with a surgeon that can truly feminize the lower & mid face bone structure to full potential not just basic jaw shaving or cheek augmentation.
Finally, unless u already had lower body feminization surgeries, the shoulder to hip ratio might be a problem as well.
I agree. I see women with that cat face look, usually because of cheek implants and too many other surgeries?
Good luck, I think it's true. Length of face/skull is an issue for mtf usually.
What's the surgery you're getting for phase 2?
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Hello humblegirl, welcome to Susan's. As this was your first post I'll add navigation links and guidelines that are requirements for Susan's Place.
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Also we have an Introductions Forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html), would be awesome if you introduce yourself.
As for FFS, I believe we should each set our own comfort level based on our individual situations and long term goals. I hesitate to get too far into measurements and ratios as average ranges based on gender are also impacted by race and age. There are cis-gender women with different skull sizes and shapes, and body proportions. I know cis-gender women who have been occasionally misgendered and although that didn't delight them they didn't rush to a surgeon. And I have read interviews with fashion models who were outcast as ugly in school because of unique characteristics in their facial features that were later discovered to be an asset.
I'd always recommend Dr Deschamps-Braly, but I'm biased since he was my surgeon =)
I think there is a danger of trying to look 'perfect' vs looking female. I would love to look like a perfectly gorgeous model too.. but for now I'm settling for 'female' :) Perhaps this is the fine line that's not easy to see? I personally think you're absolutely stunning as well.. I don't look bad but I'm jealous lol. You are beautiful ((Hugs))
Quote from: Clefairy on March 19, 2018, 10:54:19 AM
And to whoever asked what SM is, it is a website where women, cis or trans, can make a lot of money modelling. Feel free to send me a message about it.
can you give the information to the SM website? I cannot send a private message yet on this site because I am new and it is saying I am not allowed to send private messages.
I kind of think that humble girl nailed the issue. Some cis females try to never be caught without makeup. With us the percentage is much higher. You are nearing the point where more surgery may only make you look more trans as in the fake dollish look. You are very pretty now-i would be hesitant to go further with surgery.
So I have been to Dr. Spiegel and Dr. Lee and Dr. Z for various things.
Sadly no one surgeon is great at all things. So I would decide what you want to correct and go to that surgeon for that specific thing and BE VERY cleat what your expectations are. Never leave it up to the surgeons interpretation.
Dr. Z is more aggressive and less expensive, but I have found some of his work to be non symmetrical, where as Dr. S is overpriced and honestly I don't feel doing his best work anymore. I saw him in 2011-2012. Dr. Lee's results vary, so as I stated be clear about your expectations and if the Dr. is disagreeing or seems unsure then most likely they don't have the skill set to give you what you want or are not confident.
Best of luck, and in the meantime remember to live and enjoy life!
Quote from: Pixiehollows on April 17, 2018, 10:38:46 PM
can you give the information to the SM website? I cannot send a private message yet on this site because I am new and it is saying I am not allowed to send private messages.
still waiting for a reply?
I went to Dr. Cardenas. I know people are impressed, I look more feminine, I've had guys call me beautiful...no issues misgendering, and about 50% of the time I can actually delude myself thinking I am pretty. I have a semi good figure after all. I just can't shake the camera moment where I'm like "I'm so ugly". I hate it. And there's no way my spouse will let me go for ffs revision. :( At a loss what to do, and for me its dpressing.
I'm not one to get trapped in the constant cosmetic alterations, but when my spouse says things like "bob hope nose" or such... it just incredibly depressing & induces tears in me. She also calls me sexy but .. 30 atta girls and one oh s* spoils it all.
I do think you're beautiful from the pictures you show, totally female. #jealous.
Quote from: Pixiehollows on May 06, 2018, 08:38:31 PM
still waiting for a reply?
Hi Pixiehollows,
I'm Laurie, I see that you are new here. So please let me say, Welcome To Susan's Place! Come on in and take a good look around. Perhaps I can even get you to hop on over to the
Introductions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) Thread and create a post to tell us a little bit more about yourself so we can get to know you a little better and greet you properly. I'll add some links and information below that can help you get more out of our site. Please take time to become familiar with them especially the RED one as we are always getting questions that are answered there.
Laurie
Global Moderator
Laurie@susans.org
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