FFS regret/revisions... Lee or Speigel for an aggressive approach?

[Clefairy]

After a lot of serious consideration, I have decided to get revisions to my fairly recent facial surgery. I initially went to doctor Cardenas, and while I found his staff to be absolutely incredible, he did not go far enough with me,  and I have been filled with regret/syaphoria since. I also now desperately want revisions.

I am going to dr. Lee on the 22nd for my breast augmentation. I already had a consultation about my ffs revisions with him last Monday, and put in a request on Friday with dr. Spiegel for a consultation. I already have spoken with each of these Dr before, and have reviewed their work with great scrutiny, but I cannot seem to decide who I should use for my revisions. I'm very nervous about the decision as I likely will not be able to anywhere for further revisions, so these really need to count.

Who would you choose? Why? Who do you think is more aggressive? After my ffs with dr. Cardenas, I feel very strongly that I look very androgynous. I can pass as either woman or man, which I do not like. And being 6 foot tall, the androgynous look is not something that is desirable at all.

The procedures that I plan on getting for my revisions  include jaw contouring, cheek implants, and rhinoplasty.

I apologize for the cross post! I put it in the wrong part of the siteinitially, and I'm not sure how to delete it.

[Rachel]

I went to Dr. Spiegel and had extensive FFS. He does very good work but he is not known to be aggressive.

It seams you have some very specific desires and it would be good to find out what they say.

You just had FFS and time is need for you to heal before another surgery. Perhaps the best way is to do things over time. I had jaw and chin contouring and a lower and mid facelift as well as other procedures. I was warned to have the face lifts a year after my jaw and chin contouring as it is only 80% effective when done together. I need to have my jaw line skin tightened a bit and will some day, perhaps in the fall. I may also look at buccal fat removal at that time.

Good luck.

[Clefairy]

Thanks for the reply in the advice! <3

I am currently at around month 4ish in my recovery. Definitely enough to see that the results are, for me, not where I want them to be. I also heal at a very alarming rate from anything, in part because of genetics, and in part because of my extremely healthy lifestyle and healthy diet. Most of the swelling is gone. There is some mild swelling along my jawline and chin,  but it is very mild, and I definitely know that I want my surgery to be revised. It is really just a matter of selecting the proper surgeon at this point, I am absolutely getting my revisions in the next 3 to 5 months

[yayo]

Usually it's about a year before you'll be a candidate for revision. It may be longer with the brow. I would suggest that it's still swelling...and that's possible...but Dr. Cardenas isn't particularly known for his brow work.

Couple things to keep in mind. It may not be as bad as you think. If you posted some pics, I'd give an honest outside opinion. You don't want to sacrifice "good" in search of "perfect." If you do really decide on a revision, Spiegel is super expensive and I find his foreheads too flat. They look a bit fake to me. If you want that, go with Spiegel.

On noses and jaws...frankly, I think Spiegel is way too subtle. They look the same. I just had my nose done with Zukowski and you can check out my other post to see the result!

Lastly, you stole my spot on SM, Missy!!

P.S.

Andreja Pejic is 6'2, androgynous and gorgeous!

[Danielle M]

Judging from your picture I don't think you need revisions.   You look like you pass pretty well now.

[Clefairy]

In a full face of makeup and in good lighting I pass. I want to read as female with no makeup so I can feel snug at yoga and at the gym or pool. I am more asking about which of the two surgeons I ought to choose.

[yayo]

I actually no longer work for sm. I made everything I need for all my surgery,  and met a very loving man a while ago who I have since fallen very deeply in love with. He doesn't like the idea of me working like that and has made it possible for me to pursue some bigger dreams I also don't like the idea of working while I'm this deeply in love. For a while sm was quite the racket though :p I was pulling around 2k a week without actually putting in effort.

I don't feel very comfortable posting pictures without makeup, but here is a recent one where I am wearing makeup. It's very hard to clock me  when I am wearing makeup, but I definitely need the makeup to pass. I mean NEED. I feel like more androgynous features that might be sexy on cis women or just much harder for us to pull off. Without makeup they just become very masculine.  I got clocked several times today while hiking with my boyfriend wearing minimal makeup. It's just humiliating and I want to feel comfortable walking on trails or being outdoors or swimming with no mskeup. Trust me. It's currently not my reality. I look genuinely genderless without it and my height and shoulders clock me.

I will not be having any additional work to my brow bone I don't believe. Cardenas did a decent job, though it is very flat which is not exactly what I wanted. It is still Within the female range though. I do not feel the same about my jawline or nose. There is also a hollow spot in my cheeks I want filled as it looks very masculine

I agree with your assessment. I can't see much work needed on your brow..though, profile would be easier to tell. Place I can see strongest room for improvement is your chin. I do think a revision COULD be useful there. As well as a septorhino.

If it bothers you, do it. But you are gorgeous. As for SM, it's a great racket, but like you I mostly work there for surgery and am focusing on school and what not! Still, helped me save a nice chunk!

Kudos to you for being both so proactive and honest about your situation and needs. You have a great attitude. Probably helps to have a great boyfriend! I would definitely not recommend Spiegel for chin/jaw work. Gigi and Stef Sanjati both still have quite masculine chins and jaws after going to him. Same for noses.

That's MY opinion. People love Dechamps-Braly, if you can afford him. Haven't seen much of his work. I had my nose done with Zukowski like I said, you can see my results for yourself

[KristyWalker]

After a lot of serious consideration, I have decided to get revisions to my fairly recent facial surgery. I initially went to doctor Cardenas, and while I found his staff to be absolutely incredible, he did not go far enough with me,  and I have been filled with regret/syaphoria since. I also now desperately want revisions.

I am going to dr. Lee on the 22nd for my breast augmentation. I already had a consultation about my ffs revisions with him last Monday, and put in a request on Friday with dr. Spiegel for a consultation. I already have spoken with each of these Dr before, and have reviewed their work with great scrutiny, but I cannot seem to decide who I should use for my revisions. I'm very nervous about the decision as I likely will not be able to anywhere for further revisions, so these really need to count.

Who would you choose? Why? Who do you think is more aggressive? After my ffs with dr. Cardenas, I feel very strongly that I look very androgynous. I can pass as either woman or man, which I do not like. And being 6 foot tall, the androgynous look is not something that is desirable at all.

The procedures that I plan on getting for my revisions  include jaw contouring, cheek implants, and rhinoplasty.

I apologize for the cross post! I put it in the wrong part of the siteinitially, and I'm not sure how to delete it.

I went with Speigal and I got exactly what I asked for and I love his team. I am looking into revisions as well because when I had it in October I was still unsure of how far I wanted to go and would have gone farther if I had known what I know now and am about to contact him again to see what he can do. I would strongly recommend him.

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[Allison S]

What do you mean by people clock you? I can't imagine anyone gendering you male

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[Clefairy]

I agree with your assessment. I can't see much work needed on your brow..though, profile would be easier to tell. Place I can see strongest room for improvement is your chin. I do think a revision COULD be useful there. As well as a septorhino.

If it bothers you, do it. But you are gorgeous. As for SM, it's a great racket, but like you I mostly work there for surgery and am focusing on school and what not! Still, helped me save a nice chunk!

Kudos to you for being both so proactive and honest about your situation and needs. You have a great attitude. Probably helps to have a great boyfriend! I would definitely not recommend Spiegel for chin/jaw work. Gigi and Stef Sanjati both still have quite masculine chins and jaws after going to him. Same for noses.

That's MY opinion. People love Dechamps-Braly, if you can afford him. Haven't seen much of his work. I had my nose done with Zukowski like I said, you can see my results for yourself

Can you send me a link to your results? Thanks a ton by the way. And yeah, he is really great. I honestly couldn't be happier. I've been searching my whole life for this kind of love. It's really wonderful to finally have found it. Is dechamps good? I'm honestly not familiar with his work.

[Clefairy]

That pic of me flexing was from today after hiking around 5 miles and doing all of my lower body exercises. I kind of had a panic attack halfway through hiking when I got clocked during a conversation with some of my boyfriend's friends that I had not met yet. He was great and doesn't care if people know,  but I really do. Or just made me sick and I really want to get my revisions done asap

[Allison S]

Could it have been your voice? That's something I'm insecure about

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[yayo]

Can you send me a link to your results? Thanks a ton by the way. And yeah, he is really great. I honestly couldn't be happier. I've been searching my whole life for this kind of love. It's really wonderful to finally have found it. Is dechamps good? I'm honestly not familiar with his work.

So cute! Happy for you, hun!





My friend said Dr. Z did God's work on my nose as it used to be REALLY bad from most angles. Crooked, long, with the most prominent, Italian girl hump ever. I could privately send you my before.

People love Dechamps, but I haven't seen much of his work. He's kinda surpassed Spiegel in esteem in some circles, but certainly not fame. I find Spiegel's work to be too subtle. Zukowski is very aggressive, but noses are his real specialty, not jaws or brows. Still, some people are very happy with his work there.

Harrison Lee is kinda like Spiegel in the sense that he's very overpriced. Even more so. He worked on Caitlyn Jenner, so West Coast, he does all the girls out there. I dunno much about his results. Dechamps is also VERY expensive, but like I said, people love him.

I've seen excellent work from Bart Van De Ven, but he's in Europe and some people loathe him.

[AlexisRene]

There is not one photo that you shared where I would clock you. Completely stunning just as you are. However, completely understand that it is you that must be content.

Am not sure if you are located on the east or west coast as Dr. Lee has offices in both LA & NYC. But if by chance you are visiting him in LA, take a look at Dr Kyle Keojampa. He is also on this site occasionally. Absolutely love how technical he is & the way he explains things.

On the outside, would recommend Dr Javier Rossi in Buenos Aires. Amanda Rosenfeldt is the contact & wonderful to work with.

May I ask what SM is? Feel silly asking, but am clueless about that part of the conversation.

[I Am Jess]

Say hi to Susan and Vilma for me when you see Dr. Lee for your BA. He did mine 2 1/2 years ago and I get a lot of compliments on them. He also did my FFS at the same time and I am super pleased with his work. Dr. Lee started out working on teeth and jaws and that is one of his board certified areas of work. I only had upper facial work done but I think what he did is amazing. I'm one of the subjects he has is his results gallery so you may have seen what he did for me. I know it's a very personal decision but I've personally experienced Dr. Lee's work and I have been super pleased with what he's done for me. He also didn't try to over sell me on procedures. He told me that my cheeks and lower face were fine and he told me he wouldn't recommend doing anything to those areas.



This is the picture that he has in his results gallery.  The after picture was about a year after he did my surgery which was in Aug of 2015.



This is what I look like today 2 1/2 years after my surgery.  For the record I'm 56 now.

Jess

[echo7]

Clefairy, if you're getting clocked, then based on your pictures I'm certain it's your nose more than anything. I think your chin and jaw may only need minor work, if at all, but your nose looks quite masculine.  Before FFS, I too had a very masculine nose - way more masculine than yours.  Mine was very big, wide, hooked, and with a huge bump on the bridge of my nose. It was hideous. I went to Dr Zukowski for my FFS and he gave me a very cute and natural looking nose. It's perfect. IMO Zukowski is the best FFS surgeon in the world when it comes to nose work.

Although a feminine jaw and chin can help beautify a face, it's the forehead, brow, and nose that are the most critical for female gendering. Since my FFS, I have never been clocked or misgendered, even when I wear zero makeup.  It's a great place to be, and I'm sure you'll get there too after a rhinoplasty.

[yayo]

Clefairy, if you're getting clocked, then based on your pictures I'm certain it's your nose more than anything. I think your chin and jaw may only need minor work, if at all, but your nose looks quite masculine.  Before FFS, I too had a very masculine nose - way more masculine than yours.  Mine was very big, wide, hooked, and with a huge bump on the bridge of my nose. It was hideous. I went to Dr Zukowski for my FFS and he gave me a very cute and natural looking nose. It's perfect. IMO Zukowski is the best FFS surgeon in the world when it comes to nose work.

Although a feminine jaw and chin can help beautify a face, it's the forehead, brow, and nose that are the most critical for female gendering. Since my FFS, I have never been clocked or misgendered, even when I wear zero makeup.  It's a great place to be, and I'm sure you'll get there too after a rhinoplasty.

Nose is such an underrated part of passing I feel like. People focus on brows and jaws, but like Dr. Z said, the nose is the window into the face. I'm inclined to think that brow and nose are about equal in terms of the passing factor honestly, because both play a role in framing the eyes (where people focus).

I think people assume that because there are women with prominent noses you'd never see as trans, noses don't matter. But it's about shape, contour, etc. The masculinity of the nose. I'm shocked at how much just a rhino and fat graft with Dr.  Z have improved my presentation just over two weeks out (so I still have swelling).

Anyway, I was thinking the same thing, but didn't want to say. I read in another post that Dr. C told her that her nose was fine and was inclined to think that was a big error.

[Clefairy]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I'm actually about to give Dr Z I call right now. I sent an email last night after seeing what you all said but did not get a reply. My nose definitely needs a lot of work. I kind of wish that I had had doctor Cardenas do it while I was in Mexico, because he absolutely is great with noses as well.

I will let all of you know what is said. What are y'alls opinions on dr. Lees ability to handle rhinoplasty? He wants to charge me approximately 25000 for rhinoplasty, cheek inserts, and shaving my jaw once more. I will have another consultation with dr. Spiegel next week and will also let you know what he says. He charges $150 for a consultation and does not give out much information over the phone or through email.

How much did you pay with dr. Z? And for what procedures? Do you know how much each procedure cost individually? Thanks a ton

[I Am Jess]

What are y'alls opinions on dr. Lees ability to handle rhinoplasty? He wants to charge me approximately 25000 for rhinoplasty, cheek inserts, and shaving my jaw once more.

Dr. Lee also worked on my nose but it was for medical not cosmetic reasons. I am very happy with the results. He did do a little fine tuning on it while he was doing the other work. The price you were quoted is in line with what he charges for all of what he is planning on doing. I think the price may be less with some of the other doctors so it's all going to come down to what your personal preference is. I have friends who have gone to both Lee and Dr. Z and most are happy with their results. I have one friend who is very unhappy with her results from Dr. Z and she is very vocal about it. From what I've seen and read, Dr. Z has a specific look for almost all of his patients noses. Take a look at his results and see if that is the kind of look you want to achieve. Dr. Lee takes more of an individualized approach. Good luck with your decision and let us know how everything goes.

[yayo]

Thanks for all the replies everyone! I'm actually about to give Dr Z I call right now. I sent an email last night after seeing what you all said but did not get a reply. My nose definitely needs a lot of work. I kind of wish that I had had doctor Cardenas do it while I was in Mexico, because he absolutely is great with noses as well.

I will let all of you know what is said. What are y'alls opinions on dr. Lees ability to handle rhinoplasty? He wants to charge me approximately 25000 for rhinoplasty, cheek inserts, and shaving my jaw once more. I will have another consultation with dr. Spiegel next week and will also let you know what he says. He charges $150 for a consultation and does not give out much information over the phone or through email.

How much did you pay with dr. Z? And for what procedures? Do you know how much each procedure cost individually? Thanks a ton

If you haven't already spoken with him, tell him Abigail is "spreading the word." He'll know what I mean!

Dr. Z is very competitive in his pricing, I paid $8,000 for a septorhino and fat graft to the lips and cheeks.  The quote for everything for me was like...$15,000, including brow, nose, fat graft.

From what I've seen and read, Dr. Z has a specific look for almost all of his patients noses. Take a look at his results and see if that is the kind of look you want to achieve. Dr. Lee takes more of an individualized approach. Good luck with your decision and let us know how everything goes.

This could be true of any surgeon, but what I see in my nose so far is that the shape is very different from other girls I've seen and known who went to him. Realistically, giving everyone the same nose isn't possible even if he wanted to.