I heard some people talking badly about other transgender people on the bus and decided not to say anything because they weren't talking to me, but I have imagined scenarios in my head of things people may say in the future ( I start T in August) and what I will say back to them. Does anyone have any examples of comebacks they've said and would you like to share your situation?
If it's not addressed to you, saying something could be looking for trouble. The question is, what will be solved ? Changing peoples hearts and minds from the outside is rare. I'm big enough they might think twice about stepping up to the plate, but I don't bounce like I used to.
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Quote from: Gertrude on April 18, 2018, 08:45:11 AM
If it's not addressed to you, saying something could be looking for trouble. The question is, what will be solved ? Changing peoples hearts and minds from the outside is rare. I'm big enough they might think twice about stepping up to the plate, but I don't bounce like I used to.
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I won't say anything to people who aren't talking directly to me. I can ignore passive aggressivness. I was think more along the lines of if someone said something to me in a bathroom.
Quote from: KarlMars on April 18, 2018, 09:08:56 AM
I won't say anything to people who aren't talking directly to me. I can ignore passive aggressivness. I was think more along the lines of if someone said something to me in a bathroom.
If someone said something to me, I think I would go for minimal engagement. "Hon, I'm just here to pee," or something to that effect. I would avoid saying anything provocative like "Mind your own ... <snip> ... business," or attempting to educate them, however tempting, because the objective is to avoid escalation.
I want them to shut up and leave me alone, but telling them that may not be the best way to achieve it. If just leaving will accomplish it, that's what I am likely to do.
Quote from: KathyLauren on April 18, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
If someone said something to me, I think I would go for minimal engagement. "Hon, I'm just here to pee," or something to that effect. I would avoid saying anything provocative like "Mind your own ... <snip> ... business," or attempting to educate them, however tempting, because the objective is to avoid escalation.
I want them to shut up and leave me alone, but telling them that may not be the best way to achieve it. If just leaving will accomplish it, that's what I am likely to do.
What about since I'll be in the men's restroom saying "Don't bother me,please." If he said something first.
Confronting others is rarely a wise choice. However, if you don't care, and just want to be left alone, "that's not what your mom said" might shut up some. Unfortunately, it could lead to worse problems.
I really think you should listen to everyone here and not engage people who might potentially hurt you. There are some violent crazy people out there hon.I worry so much about the trans community's safety. I signed my son up for self defense classes in case he gets in a bad situation and has to defend himself. Maybe taking a class like that would make you feel better and you'd learn some handy skills in the process. Stay safe!
Quote from: Sparklefish on April 19, 2018, 12:21:04 AM
I really think you should listen to everyone here and not engage people who might potentially hurt you. There are some violent crazy people out there hon.I worry so much about the trans community's safety. I signed my son up for self defense classes in case he gets in a bad situation and has to defend himself. Maybe taking a class like that would make you feel better and you'd learn some handy skills in the process. Stay safe!
The best skill for self defense is always running away.
Avoid any potentially-dangerous person or place.
barbie~~
No I was suggesting self defense classes so that the he (sorry I can't see your name while I write this reply) can fight but so that he could deal with the feelings he is is feeling and feel empowered. I believe in learning self defense in case you are attacked. Too many trans people being attacked in murdered statistic wise. It helps me personally sleep at night knowing my son is equipped to handle himself if god forbid someone jumps him and he can't get away.
If you need to say something back to them: be polite, do your best to project confidence, don't say anything that will escalate the situation and speak loudly enough for anyone nearby to hear you. If possible, withdraw from the situation. You want to do your best to set yourself up as the non-aggressor in the minds of any potential witnesses in case something does happen.
Quote from: KarlMars on April 18, 2018, 09:08:56 AM
I won't say anything to people who aren't talking directly to me. I can ignore passive aggressivness. I was think more along the lines of if someone said something to me in a bathroom.
Depends on what was said. It could range from "you'd have to stand on your mother's shoulders just to kiss my arse" to "wouldn't it be funny if a ->-bleeped-<- kicked your arse". I'd probably have an F word or two in there, said with a NY accent. Ymmv.
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I think that there is a male instinct that says "a challenge must be accepted". Mature males tend to control this instinct by thinking about the people who need them. I agree with everyone who says that avoiding conflict is the best policy. It may not always be possible even if you don't use a comeback, as bullies tend to be looking for trouble. There is no point in making violence more likely, though.
For what it is worth, in such circumstances I sometimes tried to adopt the "John Wayne" look, i.e. "I'm not looking for trouble but I don't mind if I find it". Whether it helped or not I don't know but I haven't been beaten up since leaving high school. Unlike John Wayne, though, I'm only 5' 4''. Once, when a drunk became very aggressive towards me, I shook his hand and asked him how he was. That confused him long enough for me to quickly walk away.
Quote from: Gertrude on April 19, 2018, 03:09:30 PM
Depends on what was said. It could range from "you'd have to stand on your mother's shoulders just to kiss my arse" to "wouldn't it be funny if a ->-bleeped-<- kicked your arse". I'd probably have an F word or two in there, said with a NY accent. Ymmv.
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Not my style.
Quote from: KathyLauren on April 18, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
If someone said something to me, I think I would go for minimal engagement. "Hon, I'm just here to pee," or something to that effect. I would avoid saying anything provocative like "Mind your own ... <snip> ... business," or attempting to educate them, however tempting, because the objective is to avoid escalation.
I want them to shut up and leave me alone, but telling them that may not be the best way to achieve it. If just leaving will accomplish it, that's what I am likely to do.
I'd never .. ever .. had someone challenge me, scoff, snort, or whatever in the bathroom. I sometimes strike up conversations (often if I'm with other girls I know).
If someone acted like an ass I'd probably just raise one eyebrow (spock style).. then proceed to smile at them. If they're psychotic bitches and do something crazy I'd obviously and quickly defend myself. Ultimately NOT being aggressive is usually the answer. Assertive, not aggressive, is usually what works.
Quote from: KarlMars on April 19, 2018, 08:51:18 PM
Not my style.
Doesn't have to be. 99.99% of the time, I mind my own business. Very few people have said anything about me one way or the other, but I'm 6'5 and most people leave me alone and I tend to leave them alone. That said, my 4th year Spanish teacher said I had a 5'2 Sicilian inside of me. Not sure what he meant, as I'm half Neapolitan.
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Quote from: barbie on April 19, 2018, 03:20:28 AM
The best skill for self defense is always running away.
Avoid any potentially-dangerous person or place.
barbie~~
Never engage unless you know you can win. Verbally, there generally is no winning, especially against a group, AKA gang
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A732Cuuo2tI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A732Cuuo2tI)
Some chav told me to get my tits out. I said "Get yours out you fat bastard they're bigger than mine". He went bright red as everyone fell about laughing
I've told people that I don't need or care if the accept me. I'm happy and that's all that's important
I've said your opinion is none of my business
Last weekend I had a major job downtown and we where having lunch at a local coffee shop. My trans daughter was in the ladies room and two street people came in to use the room. When my daughter came out this young girl got really mouthy with my daughter. Well this got momma bear worked up. When she came out of the room she started again with my daughter and staff there trying to get them out of the shop. I got up and confronted both of them and it was interesting that as soon as a woman got up to do something about it all the men in the shop jumped in and we got these people out.
This is out of character for me but I couldn't believe the protection instinct that kicked in.
Nobody has confronted me directly. The last time that happened over anything was in a bar about 40 years ago. With that guy I just smiled at him and then walked away. That ended it.
More recently I have tried to educate people when I hear them talking badly. For the most part that turned out to be a total waste of time and effort. So mostly I just ignore them now.
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Conflict is pointless and no one really gets anything out of it except wasted time and a headache. Personally, I would just put some headphones on and then proceed to ignore them. The end problem solved.
Living well is the best revenge.
Quote from: TicTac on April 21, 2018, 08:19:36 PM
Conflict is pointless and no one really gets anything out of it except wasted time and a headache. Personally, I would just put some headphones on and then proceed to ignore them. The end problem solved.
I agree that your strategy is the best but I don't think that there is any guaranteed way of keeping safe while being bullied. Ignoring the bully, trying to look tougher than I am and, if possible, walking away has so far kept me from being beaten up since leaving high school. I've been slapped on the back or top of the head a couple of times but I wasn't injured. I ususally get picked on because I'm small and funny looking, although my race has sometimes been mentioned during verbal abuse.
I think that I've been lucky, though. Ignoring some bullies makes them particularly angry and it isn't always easy to get away. Years ago at a bus stop, two guys were picking on me, one in particular. They started off cheeky and I responded amiably but when one of them became particularly rude I turned my back. He became more and more abusive and frankly I was waiting for a punch to the back of my head. It never came, though. They attracted the attention of passers by and eventually the less aggressive of the two persuaded his friend to leave.
I wish that there was a guaranteed way of safely dealing with bullies but a snappy comeback is not it.
Quote from: Deborah on April 21, 2018, 11:06:26 AM
Nobody has confronted me directly. The last time that happened over anything was in a bar about 40 years ago. With that guy I just smiled at him and then walked away. That ended it.
More recently I have tried to educate people when I hear them talking badly. For the most part that turned out to be a total waste of time and effort. So mostly I just ignore them now.
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Generally speaking, people don't want or like to re-examine their beliefs. Cognitive dissonance and the idea of being wrong are too much to deal with.
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Well, comebacks to verbal harrassement. You can usually anticipate social violence, its all about putting you down/mocking you because your violating social norms; asocial violence(rape/robbery/worse), is usually done without witnesses and you don't see coming(ie.process predators(they enjoy what their doing)/resource predators(do it for the $$$$/resources acquired by force/theft/con).
Verbal harrassment anticipates threats, threats anticipates physical engagements, my personal philosophy, so I prepare. So know what your dealing with.
My personal strategy or nonkinetic(nonphysical) TTP's in the world, are:
1. Know where your going and the demographics your going in/are at.
2. If you sense hostility by stares, heckling, mutterings, be prepared.
3. Always have a monikers ready, from tv shows, cartoons, social media.
4. Never turn your back on your potential political enemy(PE), always keep him/her within view until you get to higher/safer ground, nonkinetic engagements can turn kinetic(physical)
On social violence, Out in the world, without being confined, walk away, keep them within view(never engage a group greater/person stronger, faster, than you are), so as not to get blindly attacked, to the next bus stop or block. If your confined, what I do is:
1. Delineate if its verbal harassment or a threat, a threat is more serious issue, since it anticipates an attack(s).
2. Document, remember how it all boiled up too. So you can report to the authorities if need be, or what I do, make a mental note to do a mental AAR(after action report), to avoid that place.
3. Know the choke points where they can box you in and make a rush to get out of confined areas and run to freedom.
4. Have a LDP(last dance protocol), in case things get physical, fight to freedom, arm yourself(flashlight/stun gun/knife aka nail file).
In the USMC, a fanatic GySgt, who was former 1st force recon, turned MP(we'd do recon/security patrols outside the wire), always told us, remember, if your team/buddy is broken up, always have a LDP(last dance protocol), to engage the enemy, many to one(you).
1. SA(situation awareness/know where your going/are at and have the proper gear(flashlight/stun gun/running shows aka ammo and gear)
2. Chokepoints
3. LDP
4. RP's(Rendezvous points/safe areas), in case you survive the engagement.
My 2 cents, in case nobody mentions it, if a verbal altercation(nonkinetic engagement) turns violent(kinetic engagement).
Verbal harrassment anticipates threats, threats anticipates physical engagements.
Ok, now to being civil and girly/womanly :)
In a particular case such as "you were born with X, therefore you are A", you can respond by saying "That depends on your definition. If you define 'woman/man' as a person born with a cervix/prostate, then yes, I am a woman/man. It's just a tautology. In the meantime, go and <not allowed> yourself".
This is maybe too intellectual for common use, but I've found it to be useful to myself psychologically, and believing it personally allows you to deliver it more forcefully in person. As a tall transfemme, I can usually get away with just looking down my nose at people.....
If someone simply shouts "->-bleeped-<-!", then "Well spotted, what else you got?" is pretty good.
I guess it's about giving them attitude. Showing them that you're better than them. Which you are.
Quote from: SonadoraXVX on April 22, 2018, 09:05:58 AM
Well, comebacks to verbal harrassement. You can usually anticipate social violence, its all about putting you down/mocking you because your violating social norms; asocial violence(rape/robbery/worse), is usually done without witnesses and you don't see coming(ie.process predators(they enjoy what their doing)/resource predators(do it for the $$$$/resources acquired by force/theft/con).
Verbal harrassment anticipates threats, threats anticipates physical engagements, my personal philosophy, so I prepare. So know what your dealing with.
My personal strategy or nonkinetic(nonphysical) TTP's in the world, are:
1. Know where your going and the demographics your going in/are at.
2. If you sense hostility by stares, heckling, mutterings, be prepared.
3. Always have a monikers ready, from tv shows, cartoons, social media.
4. Never turn your back on your potential political enemy(PE), always keep him/her within view until you get to higher/safer ground, nonkinetic engagements can turn kinetic(physical)
On social violence, Out in the world, without being confined, walk away, keep them within view(never engage a group greater/person stronger, faster, than you are), so as not to get blindly attacked, to the next bus stop or block. If your confined, what I do is:
1. Delineate if its verbal harassment or a threat, a threat is more serious issue, since it anticipates an attack(s).
2. Document, remember how it all boiled up too. So you can report to the authorities if need be, or what I do, make a mental note to do a mental AAR(after action report), to avoid that place.
3. Know the choke points where they can box you in and make a rush to get out of confined areas and run to freedom.
4. Have a LDP(last dance protocol), in case things get physical, fight to freedom, arm yourself(flashlight/stun gun/knife aka nail file).
In the USMC, a fanatic GySgt, who was former 1st force recon, turned MP(we'd do recon/security patrols outside the wire), always told us, remember, if your team/buddy is broken up, always have a LDP(last dance protocol), to engage the enemy, many to one(you).
1. SA(situation awareness/know where your going/are at and have the proper gear(flashlight/stun gun/running shows aka ammo and gear)
2. Chokepoints
3. LDP
4. RP's(Rendezvous points/safe areas), in case you survive the engagement.
My 2 cents, in case nobody mentions it, if a verbal altercation(nonkinetic engagement) turns violent(kinetic engagement).
Verbal harrassment anticipates threats, threats anticipates physical engagements.
Ok, now to being civil and girly/womanly :)
I agree and if you go the self defense route, I would add getting insurance to cover legal fees and be willing to punch someone's ticket if necessary. If you aren't, then don't go that route.
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It depends on the environment and circumstances.
Casual Jerks: Ignore and keep on walking. Don't even glance. They must be talking to someone else.
Street people: Ignore and keep on walking. Don't even glance. They must be talking to someone else.
Occasionally someone may have me cornered. I've had this happen in conferences and when dining a few times.
The Religious Confronter: Out-Jesus them. (12 years of Jesuits has it's advantages). If they want to pray for me, cite Matthew on prayer, and then LEAD THE PRAYER, thanking the almighty creator for making me, challenging me to be my best self and returning to the creator realized and strong (parable of the talents here...), and praying for those who would hide me away lest they be cast into the outer darkness with the wailing and the gnashing of teeth. ;D
The Chromosome Counter: Out-biochem them. Explain in horrible detail the srY gene, messenger proteins, and all the myriad things that can go astray.
The Anatomy Argument: OK, what are feminine folks with vaginal or uterine agenesis? What's a masculine person with microphallus? If a woman has a total hysterectomy, does she lose her Woman Card?
I'd rather just walk away, though.