Greetings Everyone,
Well it seems that the government is still at it when it comes to torture...and still trying to cover it up too.
Which got me to thinking...is there ever a time when the use of torture is justified???
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Yes. Don't quote me on this.
Not in the military sense, which i think is what you're talking about.
it is strictly forbidden by a number of international treaties which the US has signed on.
hmm. guess that brings up a question of war crimes...
Quote from: ell on December 28, 2007, 07:07:38 PMNot in the military sense, which i think is what you're talking about.
it is strictly forbidden by a number of international treaties which the US has signed on.
hmm. guess that brings up a question of war crimes...
LOL, I have thought that there are a number of politicians that really should be brought up on war crimes...but I don't see that ever happening!
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
I was going to be silly, but I can't.
The answer is NO!!!!!!!
Not under any circumstances. Not under any conditions.
Thank you for asking, though.
Have a nice day,
Rebis
TORTURE IS NEVER OK, SO DON'T DO IT.
That these people will not stand trial for crimes against humanity has yet to be seen, the list has been made. Bush et. all. did in Iraq exactly what we hung the Nazis for at the end of WWII. Personally I would rather see the lot of them on trial for treason during time of war (the fact that they declared the war is just perfect irony) which is capital offense.
The charges have been filed however, which is going to make it almost impossible for any of these people to travel overseas after they leave office, witness the old Rumsfeld being forced to retreat from France this year faster than the French ever retreated in front of the Germans. Proving himself the true coward that is was, and is.
Impeach and imprison, its the only way. And for those who think its too late to impeach, its not, because among other things a guilty verdict would remove all future support (money, staff, office space, use of official transportation and Secret Service protection) from these people, and make it impossible for them to ever hold office again. Its the least we can do.
My dream is that we would indite them for treason with capital charges attached, then ship them off to The Hauge to stand trial - no matter what the outcome, they could never come home, because Europe will not extradite to a possible death penalty, so they would in effect become people without countries. Perhaps their pals in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia might take them in, though making them live in Iraq would be even better. After all, they freed Iraq, I'm sure they would get a warm welcome.
Torture is subjective. Reading this thread is torture.
Quote from: lisagurl on December 28, 2007, 07:47:33 PMTorture is subjective. Reading this thread is torture.
Ah...but it's a self inflicted torture isn't??
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
The difference, not minor, is that you could have stopped reading at any time. I don't think people getting that treatment get to opt out.
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on December 28, 2007, 07:49:53 PM
Quote from: lisagurl on December 28, 2007, 07:47:33 PMTorture is subjective. Reading this thread is torture.
Ah...but it's a self inflicted torture isn't??
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Only if I knew in advance. I am an optimist.
Quote from: tekla on December 28, 2007, 07:43:29 PM
TORTURE IS NEVER OK, SO DON'T DO IT.
Calm yeself dear, I wasn't planning on it.
It's an ineffective way to extract information. If you torture somebody long enough, he'll tell you anything you want to hear whether it's true or not. Many American soldiers signed bogus confessions in Viet Nam because they had been tortured.
On the other hand... someone like... oh... Michael Vick. I wouldn't mind if he were staked to the ground and set upon by a few rabid pit-bulls.
Quote from: lisagurl on December 28, 2007, 07:47:33 PM
Torture is subjective. Reading this thread is torture.
Lisagurl, some of your remarks today are just tripping me out. are you ok?
-ell
"Calm yeself dear, I wasn't planning on it."
Ahh, but we are. Of course you are not, England is civilized more or less, and we are not. We now find that enhanced interrogation techniques are A-OK, if you are one of them. This from the people who said "if your not with us your with the terrorists." So, if your all down with them, no problem.
are we civilized, or just better at hiding it?
Quote from: tekla on December 28, 2007, 08:49:39 PM
"Calm yeself dear, I wasn't planning on it."
Ahh, but we are. Of course you are not, England is civilized more or less, and we are not. We now find that enhanced interrogation techniques are A-OK, if you are one of them. This from the people who said "if your not with us your with the terrorists." So, if your all down with them, no problem.
OK, let's try to keep this just to the topic of torture...and not turn it into a pissing match. There are many, many countries that could be accused of using torture techniques, but that's not the topic at hand...
So please...try to stay on topic.
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Quote from: Pica Pica on December 28, 2007, 08:51:43 PM
are we civilized, or just better at hiding it?
I've heard tales of the cuisine you people serve, so I know you're well acquainted with the use of torture.
mmm true. Beware of the spotted dick.
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on December 28, 2007, 08:54:27 PM
OK, let's try to keep this just to the topic of torture...and not turn it into a pissing match. There are many, many countries that could be accused of using torture techniques, but that's not the topic at hand...
So please...try to stay on topic.
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
I don't know where you've come from, but I like you already.
Let's see. Torture. Is torture ever okay?
NO!!!wait. I'm just repeating myself.
I agree with everything Tekla said here. (just saying)
Now, to expound.
Torture is wrong and there is no reason for it under any conditions. It's occurred to me that I am incapable of getting into it any deeper than that. I guess I see no reason that anyone would ever have to rationalize not hurting another human being under any condition.
If this thread goes on as I expect it to, I will make the attempt to clutter my truth with facts.
Smell you later,
Rebis
QuoteIf this thread goes on as I expect it to, I will make the attempt to clutter my truth with facts.
LOL...nothing ever confuses a topic like using facts...that's just not playing fair!!!
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
I was just saying, that the use of torture is now the official policy of the United States, though we seem to like to do it in other places to avoid breaking our own laws. Just like keeping prisoners in Gitmo, so they are not under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Court system.
Now, let's us just say that there were no Rules of Engagement, and this was a choice. Torture gives you nothing but fear itself. Yes, maybe it would get you the information you need to help your country. At first. Then people will be too frightened to even come forth with evidence that they may have received or heard of because they are afraid the US would torture them for more information...what would happen then? Would you torture the informant?
Same goes if they are innocent. I could say that my next door neighbor is a terrorist, and the FBI would go interrogate and torture him, but what if I just said that because his dog urinated on my lawn? Or he was white and I'm black? or vice versa? It would bring too much controversy to even begin to think about "fair" torture. In the United States you believe in Innocent until proven guilty. And there are morals by which people follow. Torture is the extra leap into infinity that you as a country and a whole don't need.
How low, how degraded have we now become? Until recently, the last 7 years to be exact, I would have thought this question would rank alongside ones like "when is rape justified?" That its not just some stupid abstract question for a junior high ethics class, but rather a policy debate at the highest levels of our government must make our Founding Fathers weep. For a bunch of self-promoting 'followers of Christ' - well you don't need a a talking paraclete to tell you that Jesus is weeping too.
So perhaps a better question might be, how did our nation, our civilization slide so far down, so fast. I swear I feel like I'm riding in the backseat with Thelma and Louise.
Is torture ever justified? Constantly, by those who use it to get what they want.
Is it ever justifiable? IMO, no. Our inhumanities to one another simply seem to perpetuate a state of profound distrust, power-over, fear, which btw seems like the tried and true policy of elites everywhere to maintain their sway over others; i.e., the replacement of the 'Iron Curtain' & the 'nasty, Evil-Empire' Soviets by the "Axis of Evil" Iranians, N. Koreans, Taliban, Al-Qaida, Venezuelan, etc, etc, add any nation or group that political leadership here doesn't like as paper tigers that will and are used to instill even more fear into the lives of USA white-folk for anything and anyone who doesn't embrace the suburban, shopping-mall culture with gusto. (Take a breath, Nichole!)
In the meantime, pass bills that limit freedom of movement, speech for those without ownership of print, electronic media, & pass out cards that delineate electronically every aspect of one's life that someone, a group of someone's, will use to extort, cow, terrorize anyone with the gumption to defy them, or even merely disagree with them.
One finds that torture, like all the other means of legal terrorism is eminently justifiable by someone, generally those in-power who wish to maintain their power-over the majority and continue what they perceive as the benefits of being the coldly materialistic bastards they have made themselves.
Is there a different way that might well be more humane and of value in allowing people to fully be themselves and perhaps cause the fear to diminish? Well, yes. And THAT should be employed.
Like Rebis said, "Don't do it."
So why do I feel like Cassandra? Making prophecies that no one will believe? Darn, should have gone to bed with that Apollo-fellow! *sigh*
Torture, like all those other inhumane and degrading to both victim and perp items, is not helpful.
Nichole
Quote from: tekla on December 28, 2007, 07:43:29 PM
The charges have been filed however, which is going to make it almost impossible for any of these people to travel overseas after they leave office, witness the old Rumsfeld being forced to retreat from France this year faster than the French ever retreated in front of the Germans. Proving himself the true coward that is was, and is.
that is interesting. thanks for the update, brainiac.
Quote from: ell on December 28, 2007, 08:15:53 PM
Quote from: lisagurl on December 28, 2007, 07:47:33 PM
Torture is subjective. Reading this thread is torture.
Lisagurl, some of your remarks today are just tripping me out. are you ok?
-ell
I am a creative unique individual, I like to look at things from a different perspective. I am glad you find them entertaining.
Quote from: lisagurl on December 29, 2007, 01:43:23 PM
Quote from: ell on December 28, 2007, 08:15:53 PM
Quote from: lisagurl on December 28, 2007, 07:47:33 PM
Torture is subjective. Reading this thread is torture.
Lisagurl, some of your remarks today are just tripping me out. are you ok?
-ell
I am a creative unique individual, I like to look at things from a different perspective. I am glad you find them entertaining.
actually i do. :)
Is sleep deprevation classed as torture? There are people that say definitely yes, and others think it is a humane form of torture and is acceptable.
IMO it is a terrible form of torture because anyone will succumb to telling lies or exaggerate what they already know just to be able to sleep. Where is finding the truth in that?
Is depriving a caffeine addict their daily dose a form of torture?? Hum...
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on December 28, 2007, 06:41:26 PM
Which got me to thinking...is there ever a time when the use of torture is justified???
Not according to the Geneva Convention, which almost all nations have signed but few follow. But for the US, it's not justified as the FBI has shown they can and do get orders of magnitude reliable information than the CIA and DOD. And studies have shown that the worse the torture the worse the information. I find it interesting that the US approves the use of torture, even covertly approving extreme torture, but then whines when other nations use it or take it to the same extreme. Apparently our patriotism is different than someone else's, as is our God which seemingly condones it, but no one can find it in the Bible.
Imagine when George goes to Heaven and meets God. "Hmmm..., I don't know George, you were President of the greatest nation on earth but you authorized the worst types of torture of other humans on earth since the Inquistion. I thought you were a devout Christian. Did you miss something in my messages to you or were you listening to others when I called you personally? You know, there are places for people like you, and sadly for you, it's not here. So, if you go to that counter over there, they'll give you the bus ticket to hell. Next!"
--Susan--
QuoteImagine when George goes to Heaven and meets God. "Hmmm..., I don't know George, you were President of the greatest nation on earth but you authorized the worst types of torture of other humans on earth since the Inquistion. I thought you were a devout Christian. Did you miss something in my messages to you or were you listening to others when I called you personally? You know, there are places for people like you, and sadly for you, it's not here. So, if you go to that counter over there, they'll give you the bus ticket to hell. Next!"
--Susan--
yeah... that guys not a christian... just playing one fool a nation. (you can tell a tree by its fruit)
torture is not justified. it just makes people confess to imaginary things. the real baddies boast about what they have done and what they will do. like liberating iraq, spreading democracy and upholding the constitution.
As Lenny Bruce once said, "you give me the hot lead ennama and the flag goes straight down the toilet." You do this to people you do get information. But bad information is worse than no information in time of war. Of course, that is the great out, perhaps we are not at real war.
I don't believe we should torture people. I do believe that we should prosecute those who have allowed it to happen. They are in charge, they are responsible for breaking the commitments we have made concerning rules of conduct.
Cindi
I don't see any justification for torture whatsoever!
y2g
Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. I'm assuming that this question was initiated by the treatment of Muslim extremists by American soldiers. Well, I'm French and I think the back-lass that the USA is getting over this is totally unjustified. That fact is that the middle east is about 800 years behind the west in its development and because of this the two cultures will never be able to interact. It's time that the west give up on them and let them get on with doing whatever they do. In answer to your question, torture is a necessary evil when countries are in a state of war.
Quote from: Jeannette on December 30, 2007, 02:22:13 PM
In answer to your question, torture is a necessary evil when countries are in a state of war.
Wrong. as a former soldier, i can tell you that it is wrong to shoot the prisoners, and extremely wrong to torture them. treatment of your prisoners has a direct impact on how nations get along after the war is over, and the respect they receive.
-ell
OK, let me get this right. If, as you state, "torture is a necessary evil when countries are in a state of war." And, since France and Germany were at war ... then the actions of the Schutzstaffel (SS) and the Sicherheitsdienst (SD) as well as the Geheime Staatspolizei (Gestapo) within occupied France were all hunky-dory then, right?.
Quote from: ell on December 30, 2007, 02:37:45 PM
Quote from: Jeannette on December 30, 2007, 02:22:13 PM
In answer to your question, torture is a necessary evil when countries are in a state of war.
Wrong. as a former soldier, i can tell you that it is wrong to shoot the prisoners, and extremely wrong to torture them.
-ell
Is that true or what you were "instructed" to say? I must be misinformed then or maybe paying too much attention to the media.
http://twoday.net/static/mindcontrol/files/alleged_government_sponsored_torture.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010205A.shtml
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2007/03/01/70992
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/20/bombshell-abc-independently-confirms-success-of-cia-torture-tactics/
http://www.nps.edu/Library/Research/Bibliographies/Intelligence/IntellPolicyBibPeriodicals.html
There has to be some truth in some of this. Or maybe everything is a "LIE" ;)
"any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity" --- The United Nations Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment
Also, "Persons taking no active part in the hostilities, including members of armed forces who have laid down their arms... shall in all circumstances be treated humanely." The treaty also states that there must not be any "violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture" or "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment" The third and fourth Geneva Conventions
Both the United States, and France have signed these documents.
Quote from: Jeannette on December 30, 2007, 03:25:27 PM
Quote from: ell on December 30, 2007, 02:37:45 PM
Quote from: Jeannette on December 30, 2007, 02:22:13 PM
In answer to your question, torture is a necessary evil when countries are in a state of war.
Wrong. as a former soldier, i can tell you that it is wrong to shoot the prisoners, and extremely wrong to torture them.
-ell
Is that true or what you were "instructed" to say? I must be misinformed then or maybe paying too much attention to the media.
http://twoday.net/static/mindcontrol/files/alleged_government_sponsored_torture.htm
http://www.truthout.org/docs_05/010205A.shtml
http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2007/03/01/70992
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/09/20/bombshell-abc-independently-confirms-success-of-cia-torture-tactics/
http://www.nps.edu/Library/Research/Bibliographies/Intelligence/IntellPolicyBibPeriodicals.html
There has to be some truth in some of this. Or maybe everything is a "LIE" ;)
it is true for me; it is true for many US soldiers, but sadly, it is not followed, obviously, by everyone in our military, especially by some in key leadership roles. i do not doubt any of the info you have here. thanks for posting it. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
-ell
I'm in favor of torturing convicted rapists. And no one will change my mind as long as the act keeps replaying in my mind. It's been over 35 years since it happened buy I feel it like it was yesterday. If nothing else, he deserves to be tortured for teaching me to hate.
Karen Lyn
It seems that self torture is the most popular.
Quote from: lisagurl on December 30, 2007, 07:41:58 PM
It seems that self torture is the most popular.
you were right. This thread
is torture.
QuoteIs torture ever OK?
No, torture is NEVER okay!tink :icon_chick:
I agree Tink.
Cindi
Hum,
Why is it that the vast majority of the population can see that torture is a horrible thing...and yet...governments are still using it??
Scratching my head...
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Maybe its not really "our" government anymore.
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on January 06, 2008, 08:32:23 PM
Hum,
Why is it that the vast majority of the population can see that torture is a horrible thing...and yet...governments are still using it??
Scratching my head...
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Torture is the response of weak minded and scared people. They don't have the courage to face issues the hard way (with thought), so they resort to brutalizing other people. Torture is a way for small minded people to feel they are in control. It gives them a sense of empowerment. When you see a government resorting to using torture, it generally means the nation has bad leaders.
For a while, I honestly thought that the human race would stop producing the type of people who seek refuge in barbarity, however, I've come to believe that if cruelty is ever overcome by humans, it will be in a future so far off that our sun will have burnt out by then.
the good people will be living on other planets and hopefully, their history books won't go back far enough to sicken them with the knowledge that humanity can produce monsters.
cheers, :)
rebis
They should turn rapists into little girls.
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on January 06, 2008, 10:53:25 PM
They should turn rapists into little girls.
Cindy
I hope not!!! Maybe just turn them into well-adjusted people instead?
As for 'fear & barbarity and torture.' If ya look at the history of our 'American Empire' since the 1910s it is replete with instances of barbarity: Central & South America, Iran (1940s) Phillipines (1920s & 30s) Cuba (1910s) and now, infamously, Iraq and Guantanamo.
After WWII politicians here basically decided that 'scaring hell outta folk' was a great way to exercise power and control. It's pretty much worked. How many people do you know who are convinced that if we weren't torturing Iraqis and Afghanis and other folk that "Al-Qaida" would be bombing their nearest shopping malls?
I remember in elementary school the constant discussions by teachers on 'what if the Russians invade, drop the bomb, etc.'
I thought those were pretty good questions until I became a teen and then realized that there was only one government that had ever dropped a nuclear bomb on any other country at all.
Any guesses which government?
Nichole
That other post I submitted was only an effort to be funny but there isn't anything funny about this topic, is there? I have never liked aggression and brutality. I had my fair share of that already in my life. And I equally dislike torture even more. I don't think I'll be back to this topic. But yes my answer is NO!!!
Cindy
No.
It is not ever "ok".
Is it sometimes nessicary?
I don't know. I'm not in a situation it might be.
But I do know that it does not do unharm
It is a terrible thing to do to another. And that does not change simply because of the reasons for doing it.
Peace be with you friends
Sara
No. Torture for information is not guaranteed to get good information.
It's morally wrong, therefore discouraged and those that torture get a bad reputation.
Causes unneccesary suffering and actually detrimental to the torturer. Bad idea.
SilverFang
QuoteIt's morally wrong, therefore discouraged and those that torture get a bad reputation.
So is killing people by those who are tortured. How do you stop that? Two wrongs do not make a right. Everyone's morals are different. Until we standardize morals and get everyone to respect each other we are going to have pain and suffering. Utopia is not going to happen in my lifetime.
Torture is not right under any circumstances. If I were being tortured for information they would get what they want to hear. Not reliable info but if that's what they want OK. I guess for those who are into bondage and S/M it little torture is arousing. Count me out.
Torture is always wrong in my opinion. Torture for retribution, which was mentioned in the earlier example from Karen, is wrong...even if we understand the motivation.
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on December 28, 2007, 06:41:26 PM
Greetings Everyone,
Well it seems that the government is still at it when it comes to torture...and still trying to cover it up too.
Which got me to thinking...is there ever a time when the use of torture is justified???
Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre
Never, torture is ineffective at getting correct information, inhumane, and counter-productive to the image of America. Kalid Sheik Mohammed (sic?) was waterboarded 180+ times during the month before the invasion of Iraq, probably to create an excuse to invade Iraq. The fact that we torture has probably been the most beneficial thing for recruiting terrorists since the invasion of Iraq.
I'm sure everyone heard of Mancow Mueller. He was a conservative radio host who allowed himself to be waterboarded to prove it wasn't torture. He didn't last 6 seconds. I'm still waiting for Hannity to either eat his words or get waterboarded.
But then it is torture to stand in a subway car also.
Quote from: lisagurl on December 30, 2007, 07:41:58 PM
It seems that self torture is the most popular.
Quote from: lisagurl on July 27, 2009, 12:10:13 PM
But then it is torture to stand in a subway car also.
Go ahead.
agree with KarenLyn. Rapists deserve torture. they tortured someone else.
Is eye for an eye justice, or torture?
Is sending someone to prison where they are likely to be beaten and even more likely to be raped and contract a disease that may cause death or complicate all future partnerships, for relatively minor offenses torture?
I think some peoples' actions are so far beyond acceptable that life imprisonment or the death penalty are insufficient. Madoff? Life in prison with frequent torture is appropriate. How can you even begin to quantify the destruction and ruined lives by actions like that? War criminals, corrupt politicians? As an aside, I think that any politician found guilty of corruption should be executed for treason - the people voted them in with confidence of the peoples' best interests. Betrayal of such should cost them dearly.
Torture for information is dumb. Torture for punishment, well, I want it to have a place for some people.
I don't like rapists and could never be one. I do my best to help others. But I feel tortured every day. Mostly by injuries incurred while helping others :P I don't believe in torturing those who have harmed others. But more over I can not understand the torture of those who have helped others :P
There was a Mythbusters episode were they used water torture on one of the presenters. It was in the form of being immobilised and drops of water hitting the forehead. The woman involved developed quite nasty mental trauma very quickly, even though she was with friends and could stop at any time.
Shows the terrible effects.
Torture is always wrong. It's an abuse of human morality. People and governments that condone torture have lost the moral perspective that allows humanity to exist.
I too would subject rapists to awful punishment, they debased me and I have a very strong desire to hurt them, even from many years ago. Torturing them would bring me down to their level. I could never lower myself to that level. I take strength in that, strength they will never have. Their loss.
From a historical point of view, and I do not have the data, hence the question. Has barbaric punishment, death sentences, gaol for life with no possibility of release, had any effect on serious crime? The only one of those punishments I agree with is gaol with no chance of release BTW.
I don't think they have had any affect in the terrorism field, not sure about crime?
Cindy
Torture for retribution may be emotionally understandable but that doesn't make it justified. If you allow it as revenge for rape, what else? Where is the line drawn and who decides?
What about the lady who murdered her baby in a microwave? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7589247.stm)
Personally I'd cheerfully beat her to death with her own shoe - but I wouldn't make any attempt to claim to be justified, just utterly horrified and outraged.
I find it comical and tragic at the same time when I see the talking heads whine about where to put our war prisoners. "Not in my country" they say. Right.
The primary problem that we have with these guys is that we can not prosecute them. Yes, there are some really bad dudes in there. There are also many who are completely innocent, were just trying to protect their country against an invader, or were turned in by an unfriendly neighbor for a cash payment. But we can't prosecute them in a court of law. Why? Because we tortured them. We are a nation of laws. And because we chose to ignore those laws, we can not deal with these people. Unfortunately, what will inevitably happen, is that they will all rot in a cell for the rest of their lives. Innocent or guilty..... it will not matter. For we can do nothing else. If they are presented in court, they must be released, according to our laws.
See what happens when hate and prejudice get in the way?
Cindi
QuoteSee what happens when hate and prejudice get in the way?
See what happens when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time holding a smoking gun. Sometimes it is not enough to be innocent but you have to be extra good to your neighbors and everyone else. The appearance of being dangerous has a lot to do with how you appear to be and the way you treat people around you.
Quote from: lisagurl on August 03, 2009, 11:45:07 AM
See what happens when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time holding a smoking gun. Sometimes it is not enough to be innocent but you have to be extra good to your neighbors and everyone else. The appearance of being dangerous has a lot to do with how you appear to be and the way you treat people around you.
Not really. Some of the prisoners weren't fighting or holding weapons. It also turns out that some of the high ranking Iraqi's were tortured even when they answered the questions honestly. Like: where are the weapons of mass destruction? "We don't have any." "oh yeah?" [sounds of torture]
Quote from: lisagurl on August 03, 2009, 11:45:07 AM
See what happens when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time holding a smoking gun. Sometimes it is not enough to be innocent but you have to be extra good to your neighbors and everyone else. The appearance of being dangerous has a lot to do with how you appear to be and the way you treat people around you.
Let me tell you something. ALL of us appear dangerous to someone in our neighborhoods. IF there were a cash bonus for turning in people in our country for a program like we implemented in the "war zones", I can guarantee you that many of us trans people would end up in the torture house. That is why we can never allow these things to happen. We can not torture. For any reason.
QuoteALL of us appear dangerous to someone in our neighborhoods.
Only if you violate their culture. I never had any problems. Try pushing religion on people of other beliefs and they will torture you.
Lisagurl,
If you are trans you are violating their culture. They believe you are a sexual pervert and that's that. Bye bye Lisagurl to the torture camps..... and someone gets a nice little cash award for getting rid of you.
I am a female not trans. No violation there.
Lucky our gub'mt is so broke they can't offer cash rewards, an IOU maybe.
Quote from: lisagurl on August 09, 2009, 07:37:55 PM
I am a female not trans. No violation there.
Hmm.... well you participate on a forum with us. Perhaps they could torture you for names ;)
Quote from: Cindi Jones on August 09, 2009, 11:33:41 PM
Hmm.... well you participate on a forum with us. Perhaps they could torture you for names ;)
Watched
I can think of a few ex's that could stand a little bit of torture. >:-)