Can someone transition without facial hair removal? I know it's unpractical for most of us but I have a certain person telling me: She shaves everyday and it's a normal thing to have a 5 o'colck shadow.She is a friend and said I should focus on the more important aspects of transitioning like hrt and saving for surgery.Anyone have to go this route and cover up with make up? I am guessing it's more common with us college students who don't have much money and people on lower incomes?
Thanks for reply and thoughts.
There is no "right" way to transition. Shadow can be covered with makeup, though if you are in a very hot area you'll have to touch it up a lot.
Facial hair removal takes years to complete and it is recommended that you start well before hrt. For most girls its the first step of the journey, the exception is if you are lucky to transition at puberty. Shaving is a dead giveaway if you ever hope to pass. If you are a drag queen then yes, shave and use heavy makeup for those fun outings.
Definitely remove the hair from your face. With HRT, your skin will become more sensitive and might react really badly to shaving. Irritates.
Also, I don´t think you would want to wear make-up all the time?
It used to be a requirement that half your facial hair be removed before surgery. That is no longer a requirement. If you can be treated with laser, it really won't cause much of a problem when you remove your facial hair. If you have to use electrolysis, you will have to have 3 days growth before treatment. This could become a real pain if your treated locally however some places offer 8 hours of treatment a day with two operator. At first you will probably need to book two days together however this has the advantage that you only need to grow your hair out once every few months.
As for myself, I was glad that by the time I went full time I could stop shaving but it took over a year to reach that point. If you have blond facial hair, it should be easer to cover what you have with makeup but if your growth is dark and heavy, you could end up reapplying makeup in the middle of the day.
My face hair is 95 % white so it electrolysis time for that. But I am very fortunate that it takes me three days to grow a 5 o'clock shadow. I am doing laser and starting electrolysis but can get by with a shave in the morning and light makeup.
This is tough I will not lie and thanks for feedback.I am going to meditate on this for a few days.
Well I may be the odd one here but you should aim for whatever makes you happy. If you want facial hair have it. If you don't, get rid of it.
I know trans women with facial hair that shave daily and are happy, I know one who doesn't shave, has a beard and is extremely happy.
It is a matter for you and what you want to do and how much confidence you have to be you.
If you can get to a point in your life where what you do is for your satisfaction and happiness and not for the acceptance of others, then you will have achieved true personal acceptance.
Quote from: Cindy on July 01, 2018, 03:48:24 AM
Well I may be the odd one here but you should aim for whatever makes you happy.
Seconding this. I had the hair on my face removed to leave a perfect Van Dyke. It was important to my sense of maleness, and my hair is light/gray so my female alter doesn't need to wear any makeup after she shaves. It was the ideal balance for us.
What restroom does a tg with facial hair fully visible use?
Quote from: Cindy on July 01, 2018, 03:48:24 AM
Well I may be the odd one here but you should aim for whatever makes you happy. If you want facial hair have it. If you don't, get rid of it.
I know trans women with facial hair that shave daily and are happy, I know one who doesn't shave, has a beard and is extremely happy.
It is a matter for you and what you want to do and how much confidence you have to be you.
If you can get to a point in your life where what you do is for your satisfaction and happiness and not for the acceptance of others, then you will have achieved true personal acceptance.
Thirding this.
Your transition is exactly that, YOUR transition. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I'll say that it depends on your objectives. Is being perceived as a woman important to you? Will removing facial hair help to achieve your goal? What about the people you live and work with, or strangers you encounter in your daily life? Will their reaction to your appearance be important to you?
If people perceive you as male, even though you present as a woman, you can't expect everyone to treat you as a woman, for better or for worse. If you want to be seen and treated as a woman, you need to tip the scales from looking masculine to looking feminine. The tipping point won't likely be reached if facial hair is plainly visible. On the other hand, removing facial hair doesn't guarantee that you'll pass as woman either.
You need to decide where you want to be in our bi-gendered society. Frankly, it's easiest to be gendered as either a man or a woman. Falling in between can complicate your life. But there are transgender people who are happy living life between the sexes. Where you live also has a lot to do with achieving happiness.
Facial hair removal can take years and cost thousands. Evaluate your goals, your social needs, and your financial means to come to a sound decision.
I too have white facial hair and shave every other day but up close, it's visible. I missed Kaiser's criteria my first visit to my Dermatologist. I see my Endo tomorrow and will make another appointment facial electrolysis next week. For me, It's a must. I herd it only takes 6 months or so?
Depending on how much hair you need to remove and how often the appointments are, electrolysis is at least a couple of years project. At the tail end the appointments are more spaced out as you need to wait for enough to grow out for an appointment and appointments may get shorter as the operator may run out of hair to treat.
Quote from: Donica on July 01, 2018, 10:42:54 AMI herd it only takes 6 months or so?
It depends on how much you get done each time. There are some ladies who have 4-hour or even 8-hour appointments every week. For them, six months is reasonable. I do one hour a week, and I have been at it for 18 months. I am finally starting to see some results. I can skip shaving for a day and no one will notice unless they are very close.
Even if money were no object, a big factor in how much you can do per week is pain management. Some folks have a high pain threshhold and don't need pain management. Others, like me, struggle to get through an hour without having to be scraped off the ceiling.
So there is no one-size-fits-all answer. You should plan on it taking a couple of years.
Quote from: Donica on July 01, 2018, 10:42:54 AM
I too have white facial hair and shave every other day but up close, it's visible. I missed Kaiser's criteria my first visit to my Dermatologist. I see my Endo tomorrow and will make another appointment facial electrolysis next week. For me, It's a must. I herd it only takes 6 months or so?
The amount of calendar time and the number of hours under the needle varies widely depending on many factors including your age, the amount of hair, your pain tolerance, the experience and skill of your electrologist, your ability and willingness to stay on a recommended schedule, your ability to fund the effort, the modality used, follicle strength, and other factors too numerous to list. The fact is, you will not know how long it will take until you get into a program, but be advised it could take hundreds of hours and several years to rid your face and neck of all terminal hair. The fastest track is volume facial hair removal which is offered in a couple of locations in the US. Two technicians work on you simultaneously for two days while under a local anesthetic until all the hair on your face and neck is cleared. In six weeks you have it done again. After another six weeks again, and so on till there's little regrowth. I caution people about the risk of taking this approach due to the risk of producing scarring where the hair is very dense. I've undergone this regimen four times and developed a pebbly texture in the chin area where my beard was very dense. It's not serious scarring, but it does detract from my appearance. Fraxel laser treatments did not noticeably improve my skin. I am going to have dermabrasion (not
micro dermabrasion) to see if it will lessen the scarring. The lesson is start early, find a good electrologist, take it slow, and stick with your schedule religiously.
I'm almost 4 years into medical transition. Other obligations have kept me away from facial hair removal. I shave every day and use powdered makeup (BareMinerals) to reduce shadow. I rarely get clocked and my face is never the cause when I am. Would I rather have laser and electrolysis? Of course. Someone touching my cheek would feel the shadow even if they didn't see it but I get by. HRT will reduce your facial hair to.a greater or.lesser degree, so that helps.
You have to decide for yourself what steps are important to you.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Thanks for all your replys.I am starting a new topic on another question.
Quote from: warlockmaker on July 01, 2018, 08:15:23 AM
What restroom does a tg with facial hair fully visible use?
The one she chooses to. I wear a beard - can't afford electrolysis and given even daily shaving and makeup wouldn't get me to passable, I just go with the look I feel is best for me.
Sometimes I choose the men's, where I work the policy is you use whatever you feel is right. I feel most comfortable in gender-neutral facilities (notably cis men seem to avoid these like the plague). Out in the world I usually use the women's if I'm in a queer friendly place, otherwise the men's.
Quote from: Clara Kay on July 01, 2018, 04:33:58 PM
The fastest track is volume facial hair removal which is offered in a couple of locations in the US. Two technicians work on you simultaneously for two days while under a local anesthetic until all the hair on your face and neck is cleared. In six weeks you have it done again. After another six weeks again, and so on till there's little regrowth. I caution people about the risk of taking this approach due to the risk of producing scarring where the hair is very dense. ... The lesson is start early, find a good electrologist, take it slow, and stick with your schedule religiously.
Not being a patient person, I hate to say this, but slow and steady is probably the best route. Long ago, I used Electrology2000 near Dallas for one day, 8 hours, two technicians. They were _very_ trans friendly. However, my face was a mess for a month. And, now, 15 years later, I still have scarring on my face where they worked. I tried various laser options in the years after that. Perhaps, perhaps, in the best light, the hair was thinned out a bit by laser. Mostly a waste of money for me. So, I expect slow and steady is the most sure way. My personal problem with that approach is the steady part, as I have nothing in my life that can occur on a regular basis...
I am really inspired by all of the replys. Thanks.
It's low on my list of priorities, partially because it doesn't bother me that much. Estrogen seems to have both lightened it in color, made it softer and really stunted its growth. Eventually, I will probably get it all zapped off though.
Quote from: KatieP on July 01, 2018, 08:07:57 PM
Not being a patient person, I hate to say this, but slow and steady is probably the best route. Long ago, I used Electrology2000 near Dallas for one day, 8 hours, two technicians. They were _very_ trans friendly. However, my face was a mess for a month. And, now, 15 years later, I still have scarring on my face where they worked. I tried various laser options in the years after that. Perhaps, perhaps, in the best light, the hair was thinned out a bit by laser. Mostly a waste of money for me. So, I expect slow and steady is the most sure way. My personal problem with that approach is the steady part, as I have nothing in my life that can occur on a regular basis...
I tried to reduce the scarring I got from volume electrolysis with three treatments of fractional CO2 laser resurfacing with no appreciable improvement. These treatments improved my skin in other ways, though. After much research and hesitation, I've recently undergone dermabrasion on my lower face in hopes that it will improve my appearance. It's too early to report on the efficacy of dermabrasion, but early indications are that a smoothing has occurred. I'll report back later on the final results.
The procedure is simple in concept. The surgeon removes the top layer of skin and some of the underlying dermis layer, thus removing the skin's pebbly irregularities left by electrolysis. It's done with a local anesthetic and (optional) sedation. It takes about 30 minutes and is painless. When the numbing wears off there is some discomfort for 24 hours, easily quelled with 500 mg of Tylenol. The treated skin is quite red afterward, and it takes a couple of months for the pinkish hue to fully disappear. Makeup can be used to hide it. I'm told to allow a week of down time before returning to normal life. The key is to keep the treated skin moist with a thick layer of Bacitracin ointment day and night for at least five days to prevent the formation of scabs, and then use sun block to protect the skin from UV radiation for 6 months.
I found almost no information on the web about using dermabrasion to reduce scarring from electrolysis, and I have no reason to believe it will do any good. Much of what's out there concerns acne scarring which dermabrasion can help reduce. Acne scars are not as deep as electrolysis scars, though, so it may not be as effective. I found several accounts from people reporting a worse appearance after dermabrasion than before. I think the results you obtain from dermabrasion is very dependent on the person doing it. It requires a lot of skill to do it right. Going too deep, i.e., penetrating the dermis layer will cause permanent scarring. I made a point to have the procedure done by an experienced board certified plastic surgeon, not an aesthetician at a beauty salon where
micro dermabrasion is typically done.
Has anyone had dermabrasion to reduce facial scarring from electrolysis or other?
Cis woman here but detransitioning. I took testosterone for many years and developed a lot of very thick and dark facial hair that I'm now dysphoric about. So I'm in a similar situation. I get 5 o'clock stubble that peeks through makeup, and even when newly shaved it shows a clear bluish shadow.
It does make me uncomfortable but I'm considering keeping it. I don't need to leave the house every day so I can go several days per week without shaving or wearing any makeup. Also I live alone. When I do go out however I always shave very closely and cover up my beard shadow with makeup.
My reasons for maybe wanting to keep it may not apply to anyone else than me, but still. Because I'm detransitioning I worry that if I'd get it permanently removed I might change my mind someday if I at some point later on would wish to transition again. I don't think I would, but yeah that thought lingers as a "what if".
Another reason is that I like playing with different forms of gender expressions, switching between masc and fem and androgynous looks, so I might actually want to save out a beard again at some point, but wear it as a woman. Like that could be a very striking look, also considering I did get very good and even beard growth so it's not patchy, although I'm aware it will likely thin out a bit once I've stopped taking the testosterone.
Women can like having beards and still be women, or just like having the option to grow a beard. And I think it can definitely look good too. Then whether you're cis or trans doesn't matter. Although it's relatively rare for cis women to have the ability to grow beards, we do exist ;)
Financially though, I'm not sure about this, but wouldn't it actually be more expensive in the long run to shave every day with buying razors and shave creams etc for god knows how many years forward (I hope you live a long and happy life), than paying for hair removal? I don't know about you, but the rate I need to buy more shaving tools is not cheap at all. I probably spend around 20 dollars per week, every week on just shaving tools. However that goes for my entire body and not just my face. My not so typically feminine amount of body hair bothers me much more.
If you should keep it or remove it is up to you, I'm just saying it wouldn't be wrong to keep it. And I thought maybe giving a cis perspective on women with facial hair could be of interest. I'm not entirely sure if I pass as my female birth sex or not now, but I think for the most part I do. Most people in the area where I live know of me as a guy (since before my detransition) which hinders my ability to pass as a girl now regardless of how I look. Also my voice "gives me away", but that's a different topic.
Quote from: SeptagonScars on August 19, 2018, 12:06:04 PM
Cis woman here but detransitioning. I took testosterone for many years and developed a lot of very thick and dark facial hair that I'm now dysphoric about. So I'm in a similar situation. I get 5 o'clock stubble that peeks through makeup, and even when newly shaved it shows a clear bluish shadow.
It does make me uncomfortable but I'm considering keeping it. I don't need to leave the house every day so I can go several days per week without shaving or wearing any makeup. Also I live alone. When I do go out however I always shave very closely and cover up my beard shadow with makeup.
My reasons for maybe wanting to keep it may not apply to anyone else than me, but still. Because I'm detransitioning I worry that if I'd get it permanently removed I might change my mind someday if I at some point later on would wish to transition again. I don't think I would, but yeah that thought lingers as a "what if".
Another reason is that I like playing with different forms of gender expressions, switching between masc and fem and androgynous looks, so I might actually want to save out a beard again at some point, but wear it as a woman. Like that could be a very striking look, also considering I did get very good and even beard growth so it's not patchy, although I'm aware it will likely thin out a bit once I've stopped taking the testosterone.
Women can like having beards and still be women, or just like having the option to grow a beard. And I think it can definitely look good too. Then whether you're cis or trans doesn't matter. Although it's relatively rare for cis women to have the ability to grow beards, we do exist ;)
Financially though, I'm not sure about this, but wouldn't it actually be more expensive in the long run to shave every day with buying razors and shave creams etc for god knows how many years forward (I hope you live a long and happy life), than paying for hair removal? I don't know about you, but the rate I need to buy more shaving tools is not cheap at all. I probably spend around 20 dollars per week, every week on just shaving tools. However that goes for my entire body and not just my face. My not so typically feminine amount of body hair bothers me much more.
If you should keep it or remove it is up to you, I'm just saying it wouldn't be wrong to keep it. And I thought maybe giving a cis perspective on women with facial hair could be of interest. I'm not entirely sure if I pass as my female birth sex or not now, but I think for the most part I do. Most people in the area where I live know of me as a guy (since before my detransition) which hinders my ability to pass as a girl now regardless of how I look. Also my voice "gives me away", but that's a different topic.
Your posts are always so interesting to me. So even without the bone structure of a person assigned male at birth you share a lot of the same struggles as us mtf do... Not to undermine what you're going through, because I understand (I know cliche being that I'm trans..) but your detransition experience makes me feel a bit better... Again I feel bad because I don't mean that your struggles make me happy, but rather that I may have hope too? I mean you were assigned female at birth.. It's just a thought of mine.
But my reason for quoting the specific part you shared is because it's very true. I think some people can have trauma and still be trans of course, but your honesty about your experience with detransitioning actually does help the trans community. Am I making sense saying that? I think it just shows that mistskes do happen, and it's okay. People panic about and stigmatize hrt, but other than a few physical and mental changes, it's really not a big deal? We're the same people at our core... Of course if hrt effects a person's health negatively then there's more to consider than boobs and beard.
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Quote from: Allison S on August 19, 2018, 09:20:20 PM
Your posts are always so interesting to me. So even without the bone structure of a person assigned male at birth you share a lot of the same struggles as us mtf do... Not to undermine what you're going through, because I understand (I know cliche being that I'm trans..) but your detransition experience makes me feel a bit better... Again I feel bad because I don't mean that your struggles make me happy, but rather that I may have hope too? I mean you were assigned female at birth.. It's just a thought of mine.
But my reason for quoting the specific part you shared is because it's very true. I think some people can have trauma and still be trans of course, but your honesty about your experience with detransitioning actually does help the trans community. Am I making sense saying that? I think it just shows that mistskes do happen, and it's okay. People panic about and stigmatize hrt, but other than a few physical and mental changes, it's really not a big deal? We're the same people at our core... Of course if hrt effects a person's health negatively then there's more to consider than boobs and beard.
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I don't take that the wrong way at all, and I'm glad it makes you feel better and that I give hope. There absolutely is hope! No need to feel bad about that. I think the bone structure is probably what people (in general) pay attention to the least, or that's what I've experienced both in my transition to male and in my detransition back to female. I have unmistakenly wide hips on an otherwise small frame, but it doesn't seem to be what people look at when they try to determine my gender. Face, voice, clothing style and body language seems to be what I've mostly been judged by gender-wise.
I've felt I've been kinda insensitive about that I also think my struggles are a bit similar to what mtf's go through. I mean I know it's not the same, but some things feel kinda similar. It's given me very valuable insight to how it can be like for you too, and like I feel even more compassion cause of a deeper understanding. Like I don't "just" get the ftm perspective now. I too have to "fight" to be seen as the woman I am at heart, while others don't believe me. And that's a painful thing that I think you might know as well. To be judged by our secondary sex characteristics that don't reflect us.
I also think my experiences with detransitioning can be helpful for the trans community, and that I'm sharing them openly and with honesty. And perhaps even more importantly: without shame. Because it's not shameful to be trans and transition, nor is it shameful to detransition. Yes, mistakes do happen, and it's not the worst that can happen. When I was still in my transition I thought that if I'd ever have to detransition that would be the end of me. But I was wrong. Yes it's hard and painful, but absolutely possible to live with and fight through. And I'm sure it will get better with time and more healing as well.
I agree about hrt. Even the permanent changes can be reversed one way or another. Bodies are maluable. But of course I still think one should be careful and as sure as possible before starting it, like it shouldn't be taken on a whim. That's probably redundant to say, but still. In my detransition, I'm just gonna have to "steal" some of your mtf transition resources ;) I am still the same person as I've always been, but also even if I hadn't taken testosterone my mind and perspective would still have changed, some way or another, by just me ageing and getting new experiences in life and growing as a person.