Has anyone been able to change their gender and name on their birth certificate at the same time. I am considering a new job that pays far better than the one I have now and would like to try to eliminate the possibilities for discrimination as best I can. Not to mention people not really knowing my past. I am tenatively planning on SRS in the fall and have the funds, would I have to get a letter from my surgeon to get them to change the gender.
Audrey
ps I live in MT
Of greater concern for job purposes is Social Security. While gender is not shown on the card, I have heard of the SS Administration sending a letter to an employer when the employers records and those of the SSA don't match. They won't change the gender in SS records without proof of surgery.
Quote from: Annie Social on January 02, 2008, 12:39:45 PM
They won't change the gender in SS records without proof of surgery.
They aren't supposed to, but it seems a few people here managed it somehow.
~Kate~
True, but I wouldn't count on it.
I'm going to get a letter from my therapist saying that I am undergoig irreversable medical procedures to become female leading to SRS and that I wish to change my gender to help avoid discrimination. I figure worst case scenario they say no.
I guess it would depend on where you live.
I've had my name legally changed. My gender, however, can't be changed on my birth certificate, drivers licence, SIN (social insurance number, it's the Canadian version of a SS card), etc, etc. I could change, however, my provincial health care card, and so I did that. So, half of my ID says Female and the other half says Male. I've heard of some people around here "tricking" the registry offices into changing the gender (technically fraud, but I don't know of anyone who actually got in trouble because of it). Some provinces here, however, will allow you to change the gender on your drivers licence and provincial idea, while some don't. I can get a passport, however, and have my gender changed on here as long as I can get a doctor stating that I'm in the process of transitioning and going to have surgery. The passport, however, is only valid for a year unless you can prove you've had surgery by the end of the year.
So, yeah, and I don't think you're in Canada, so the states is different and different states will have different rules on what you can change and not change.
I hate that my ID has a big M on it because I've had to show that to every employer I've had. It really sux. I don't know if they noticed or not. I get ID going to clubs and I haven't and anyone notice... they just look at the birth date and really don't think. I've worked at a liquor store, and after checking ID's all the time, you get to the point that you're not going to remember anything off that ID or care about anything on there...
--natalie
Posted on: January 02, 2008, 10:54:57 PM
Oh, and it might be possible to go to court to get your gender changed. I hear that's how in other provinces gender got changed. I was considering doing that until I realized that I have no $$$ and would be in court for a long time. There was talk of a class action suit against the province for in sighting discrimination, but I don't know if that went anywhere. Plus, Canada doesn't actually really have any real legal protections for trans people at all. I know that they are trying to pass that law, again, but I haven't heard when it's going to be put the table and if it's going to pass.
--natalie
Generally speaking most states as well as the federal government require SRS for document changes. There is no such thing as stealth in the US without SRS. Plain and simple. If you slip through the cracks you are essentially extremely lucky.
Also if you are worried about discrimination from the employers, you should not bother seeking a job there.
Taking you are in Montana, you will probably need the surgeons letter.
Also the type of letter you describe is insufficient for the SSA. I am really sorry, considering everything you provided you have less then a 1% chance of this happening. If this was California it would be a different story. But legally speaking the two states are worlds apart.
Seek out a new job when you have SRS and can change all your documents. It is very unlikely to happen beforehand.
Quote from: Amy T. on January 02, 2008, 11:24:07 PM
Generally speaking most states as well as the federal government require SRS for document changes. There is no such thing as stealth in the US without SRS. Plain and simple. If you slip through the cracks you are essentially extremely lucky.
In the U.K we can change all our details regardless of SRS (In Scotland we can also change out birth certificate very easily). We have different rules but have to prove we have been working for over two years with our new ID and details before any referrals for SRS can be considered. I changed my ID in 2004 and so far none of my previous ID or details have ever been found. You have to be stealth in order to survive and there is no reason in the U.K why this cannot be acheived. In the U.K we are not requested to show our birth certificate to employers and also do not have to disclose that we are transsexual.
In the states the rules vary by state, so it's best to look into what's required in your state. In Missouri you can go to court and get your name and gender changed...the rule here that you have irrevocably altered you body...the statute doesn't specify that it has to be SRS and some of my friends have gotten their gender changed...other's have not. It really depends on the judge you get.
Your other documents require a certified letter from the doctor that performed your SRS...the one exception is the passport agency, you can get a one-year temporary passport in the gender you want, this is for those traveling outside of the States to have SRS, but once you return you need to provide the letter stating you had SRS to the passport agency or you passport will expire and your gender revert back.
In the states we do not need to show our birth certificates when being hired, we do need to present a number of forms of ID and some are easier to change then others and this often leads to being outted. The main problem is that there is not uniform requirements across all the organizations and that is what makes it difficult.
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on January 03, 2008, 06:13:49 AM
In the states the rules vary by state, so it's best to look into what's required in your state. In Missouri you can go to court and get your name and gender changed...the rule here that you have irrevocably altered you body...the statute doesn't specify that it has to be SRS and some of my friends have gotten their gender changed...other's have not. It really depends on the judge you get.
Your other documents require a certified letter from the doctor that performed your SRS...the one exception is the passport agency, you can get a one-year temporary passport in the gender you want, this is for those traveling outside of the States to have SRS, but once you return you need to provide the letter stating you had SRS to the passport agency or you passport will expire and your gender revert back.
In the states we do not need to show our birth certificates when being hired, we do need to present a number of forms of ID and some are easier to change then others and this often leads to being outted. The main problem is that there is not uniform requirements across all the organizations and that is what makes it difficult.
It looks like the U.S is a much worse place to be if you are TS. We don't have to go to court to change out name and ID. We can just go and see a solicitor and pay a small amount of money and everything can be changed from there (Driving licence, National Insurance Details, Passport, Bank cards & statements, emplyment records database, Travel cards, Birth citificate ( Scotland only), P45, P60 etc.
I've made sure every avenue is covered and so far the path is clear and no records of my previous ID is retained. It took a lot of work but it can be achieved. We do not have to get involved in the fact that we may or may not be pre or post SRS and that is not the requirement needed for changing all ID protocols. In the U.K living and working as a female in your new ID for two years is required by psychiatrists before they will exept you as a candidate for SRS. So here it's almost the reverse to the U.S.
Quote from: Martine on January 03, 2008, 07:00:22 AM
Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on January 03, 2008, 06:13:49 AM
In the states the rules vary by state, so it's best to look into what's required in your state. In Missouri you can go to court and get your name and gender changed...the rule here that you have irrevocably altered you body...the statute doesn't specify that it has to be SRS and some of my friends have gotten their gender changed...other's have not. It really depends on the judge you get.
Your other documents require a certified letter from the doctor that performed your SRS...the one exception is the passport agency, you can get a one-year temporary passport in the gender you want, this is for those traveling outside of the States to have SRS, but once you return you need to provide the letter stating you had SRS to the passport agency or you passport will expire and your gender revert back.
In the states we do not need to show our birth certificates when being hired, we do need to present a number of forms of ID and some are easier to change then others and this often leads to being outted. The main problem is that there is not uniform requirements across all the organizations and that is what makes it difficult.
It looks like the U.S is a much worse place to be if you are TS. We don't have to go to court to change out name and ID. We can just go and see a solicitor and pay a small amount of money and everything can be changed from there (Driving licence, National Insurance Details, Passport, Bank cards & statements, emplyment records database, Travel cards, Birth citificate ( Scotland only), P45, P60 etc.
I've made sure every avenue is covered and so far the path is clear and no records of my previous ID is retained. It took a lot of work but it can be achieved. We do not have to get involved in the fact that we may or may not be pre or post SRS and that is not the requirement needed for changing all ID protocols. In the U.K living and working as a female in your new ID for two years is required by psychiatrists before they will exept you as a candidate for SRS. So here it's almost the reverse to the U.S.
Until you realize our medical system, while we have to usually pay for it, is a hell of alot better for TS. NO RLT for HRT. Cheap LGBT clinics in big cities. No years long waiting list. Personally I think despite all the crap the US is better.
Also the two year requirement for SRS is also very weak. The UK has such a strict gatekeeper policy medically speaking that it delays transition for several years, that is if you are allowed to medically transition. Yeah...we have to pay for it in the US, but the system itself here is SIGNIFICANTLY more trans friendly medically speaking. Yeah the documentation is a pain.
Also changing the gender with the SSA is the most important thing...that requires SRS. Some people have lucked out here by going into SSA offices instead of doing it through the mail. But for the most part that requires a surgeons letter stating you had srs. The Birth Certificate is minor compared to this. Please remember SSA has no match letters for gender which will out you.
Thats why if you are planning on going stealth SRS should be a priority. As it stands there is going to be a significant amount of document incongruity which will out you and there is no way to change it without SRS.
I know this is all disappointing, but realize documentation changes are a big benefit of getting SRS in the states. Otherwise you have to deal with incongruent documentation.
Basically speaking UK vs US. UK is awful because of the NHS and crap gatekeeping that takes place there for everything from surgery to SRS. The only upside, which is a VERY VERY weak one is documentation.
US on the other hand you have to pay for medical care and HRT (which LGBT clinics have made much cheaper) and surgery, but the gatekeeping is minimal at best. No gender clinics, and a transition path that is largely self directed.
Personally I rather get transition out of the way and pay for it then have to deal with all the crap Berleigh has described with regards to the NHS. Also starting hormones before I went full time made going FT much easier socially speaking.
Quote from: Amy T. on January 03, 2008, 03:44:25 PM
Until you realize our medical system, while we have to usually pay for it, is a hell of alot better for TS. NO RLT for HRT. Cheap LGBT clinics in big cities. No years long waiting list. Personally I think despite all the crap the US is better.
Also the two year requirement for SRS is also very weak. The UK has such a strict gatekeeper policy medically speaking that it delays transition for several years, that is if you are allowed to medically transition. Yeah...we have to pay for it in the US, but the system itself here is SIGNIFICANTLY more trans friendly medically speaking. Yeah the documentation is a pain.
Also changing the gender with the SSA is the most important thing...that requires SRS. Some people have lucked out here by going into SSA offices instead of doing it through the mail. But for the most part that requires a surgeons letter stating you had srs. The Birth Certificate is minor compared to this. Please remember SSA has no match letters for gender which will out you.
Thats why if you are planning on going stealth SRS should be a priority. As it stands there is going to be a significant amount of document incongruity which will out you and there is no way to change it without SRS.
I know this is all disappointing, but realize documentation changes are a big benefit of getting SRS in the states. Otherwise you have to deal with incongruent documentation.
Basically speaking UK vs US. UK is awful because of the NHS and crap gatekeeping that takes place there for everything from surgery to SRS. The only upside, which is a VERY VERY weak one is documentation.
US on the other hand you have to pay for medical care and HRT (which LGBT clinics have made much cheaper) and surgery, but the gatekeeping is minimal at best. No gender clinics, and a transition path that is largely self directed.
Personally I rather get transition out of the way and pay for it then have to deal with all the crap Berleigh has described with regards to the NHS. Also starting hormones before I went full time made going FT much easier socially speaking.
I wish I could have SRS tomorrow! but I have been fighting the NHS for an SRS referral for 3 years despite a 4 year RLT. They make it very difficult for a person to access referrals for SRS in the U.K. The NHS is not a free service, we pay very high taxes and our national insurance contributions go towards the NHS which is supposed to help us if we need medical help. But in reality it doesn't and most of us find we have to pay for our treatment privately. In the U.K we usually pay for most of our NHS medical care anyway, especially NHS dentists who still require a cheque after any dental treatment is done. The NHS is really a myth when it comes to treatment in the gender field and from my own experience I had to go private in order to start on hormone therapy. Berliegh's story is not uncommon and many suffer the same problems if they go the NHS route.
Quote from: Martine on January 03, 2008, 07:49:49 PM
I wish I could have SRS tomorrow! but I have been fighting the NHS for an SRS referral for 3 years despite a 4 year RLT. They make it very difficult for a person to access referrals for SRS in the U.K. The NHS is not a free service, we pay very high taxes and our national insurance contributions go towards the NHS which is supposed to help us if we need medical help. But in reality it doesn't and most of us find we have to pay for our treatment privately. In the U.K we usually pay for most of our NHS medical care anyway, especially NHS dentists who still require a cheque after any dental treatment is done. The NHS is really a myth when it comes to treatment in the gender field and from my own experience I had to go private in order to start on hormone therapy. Berliegh's story is not uncommon and many suffer the same problems if they go the NHS route.
That's true......my story is a common one which only highlights the problems facing those new to the NHS GID system.....
Well I found that SRS is required for gender change. So I ll have to wait for that. But I am going to submit my petition for name change today. :laugh: I am kind of nervous as I am not sure of the judges reaction. I think it will go well though.
do i turn the form in directly to the judge and appear the same day ?
Thanks for the run down. i always like to get a general idea of what is going to happen when i go into any process. Did you just fill out the petition or the other papers like the notice of hearing etc. or do i wait till after the petition is filed
Audrey
YES. I did it. I finally got my name change petition in. All I have to do now is get my notice in the paper on monday and the rest is history. :D ;) ;D A funny thing happened though as I was there renewing my registration also. The lady thought that I was renewing it for someone else until I showed her my id. I kept having to tell her "no that is me". I have custom plates and the computer said they were relinquished and all this other nonsense which took a while to get through. Well anyway I need to get my letter for SRS from my therapist eventually and get a second opinion, which I think I have another therapist lined up already. So it looks like things are falling into place. I would like to get my surgery sometime in the late summer.
You can change your name and gender on your birth certificate if you were born and reside in California. You should work with an attorney that is familiar with transgender law. The statutory law says you must have "gender enhancing surgery", whatever the hell that means. The judge has discretion and there are ways to get around the surgery requirement. I did so myself. Transgender Law Center in San Francisco can refer you to lawyers in other parts of the country. Good Luck!
I am not sure it is worth the hassle right now as i plan on my OP in a few months. It would save me from having to backtrack on legal documents but oh well.
Audrey
Quote from: Audrey on January 05, 2008, 01:42:50 AM
I am not sure it is worth the hassle right now as i plan on my OP in a few months. It would save me from having to backtrack on legal documents but oh well.
Audrey
Audrey, you are getting your GRS quite quickly and easily considering your age, wht kind of paperwork or referrals (from whom) do you need in the U.S for GRS? I am envious as I have been fighting the NHS for a referral for about 4 years now in the U.K..
Quote from: Kate on January 02, 2008, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: Annie Social on January 02, 2008, 12:39:45 PM
They won't change the gender in SS records without proof of surgery.
They aren't supposed to, but it seems a few people here managed it somehow.
Yeah, I was astonished when a nice lady at SSA made me female just on my own say-so. This is why it's a good idea to always ask for the F that you want. All they can do is say no. And you might get lucky.
Quote from: Berliegh on January 05, 2008, 03:28:10 PM
Quote from: Audrey on January 05, 2008, 01:42:50 AM
I am not sure it is worth the hassle right now as i plan on my OP in a few months. It would save me from having to backtrack on legal documents but oh well.
Audrey
Audrey, you are getting your GRS quite quickly and easily considering your age, wht kind of paperwork or referrals (from whom) do you need in the U.S for GRS? I am envious as I have been fighting the NHS for a referral for about 4 years now in the U.K..
You need a letter from two therapist, one which must be a Ph.D or M.D. (psychiatrist).
It is VERY easy to get GRS quickly in the US. One year full time. I am doing FFS first, but I will have GRS after two years full time. Yeah thats it.
One has the bear the cost burden in the US, but actually getting the surgeries is not to difficult. One year RLE for SRS...that is really it. HRT is even easier, its 3 months of therapy under the SoC, but there are more and more doctors who do not even require a therapist letter for it.
That sux that you have to go to court in the States and actually put your name change in the local paper.
Here, we just go to a registry office (fees vary, cause they are now privately owned -- but processed somewhere else in a government owned mystery factory... Alberta is weird for their public-private deals). I think it's published in some little, unknown legal paper that no one looks at or reads. It's in small print and squished in there among a zillion other things, like divorces, court case dates, etc, etc. I don't even know where you can pick up a copy of this paper!
Other provinces, I believe, are a bit different. And they handle ID changes differently.
--natalie
Posted on: January 14, 2008, 09:25:30 PM
As for the NHS -- it sux. I'm glad I'm not in the U.K. Alberta has something like the NHS (other provinces have similar stuff, some don't have any coverage, it all depends on what the provincial health care decides to cover).
My stuff has been delayed -- again! So, who knows when I'll get GRS/SRS. Although, we aren't as bad at the UK. Our system is good. It used to be longer, and then they made it shorter, so people were going through like mad, and now they've decided to make it longer and more strict. There's only one guy in the province that you can see who can "approve" GRS for the government, and his wait list is a year and growing more and more (some word has gotten out that it's indefinite). And then, you have to see him for a year before they approve you, no matter how long you've been living full time or how many letters you have, etc.
But, people have been fast tracked, etc, and blah, blah, blah, word is that someone got through who shouldn't have. I know who, although very few ppl in the trans community know this person. This person got the surgery, but is also a drug addict. Wants to sue Montreal. Has mega life issues. Didn't take care of herself at all -- so she actually recently ended up going to Montreal to see if they can fix what she didn't take care of, etc, etc. So yeah, long story short -- all of a sudden they start taking on time and delaying files. Mine was supposed to be sent in Oct/Nov. Then that didn't happen. Then they said Jan/Feb. Well, I just learned it's not happening until May/June. It pisses me off because I don't like that the dangle it before me and then take it away.
If I had the money, I'd go and cover it myself in a heart beat. I tried going the loan route already, but I already owe too much to the bank, and I have to pay more of my debt to qualify for even a penny. It sux. So, I'm working my butt off to pay back things, etc.
--natalie
In the U.K we have to change all our documentation over and live RLE for at least 2 years before we are even considered for GRS.
I'm into my 10th year of transition and still I can't get a referral from a psychiatrists for GRS. I have done 5 years of RLE. I was turned down by Charing Cross GIC in London yet I comply with all the clinic protocols and the HBSOC, yet they refused a referral without any explanation. I sent letters, phone calls but they wouldn't give me a reason...
One night in Bangkok and the world's your oyster....
In California, it is possible to change your name and gender marker on your driver license or ID card even if you are pre-op. I was able to change my gender marker with the SSA prior to having SRS in the early 90's too. I guess I was one of the lucky ones before the 9/11 nightmare.
Since 2002, the SSA requires proof of SRS to change gender marker on their records. After SRS, I was also able to change my birth certificate; they issued me a new BC (not an amended one) with the correct gender and name this time. ::)
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Tink on January 16, 2008, 10:46:04 PM
In California, it is possible to change your name and gender marker on your driver license or ID card even if you are pre-op. I was able to change my gender marker with the SSA prior to having SRS in the early 90's too. I guess I was one of the lucky ones before the 9/11 nightmare.
Since 2002, the SSA requires proof of SRS to change gender marker on their records. After SRS, I was also able to change my birth certificate; they issued me a new BC (not an amended one) with the correct gender and name this time. ::)
tink :icon_chick:
The criteria and the HBSOC criteria is that you live at least 1 year in your new role. In the U.K it is expected that you will change all ID at least a year minimum before you are considered for GRS. The idea being to see if you can hack it for over a year with a female ID , so there are no ways of opting out or only living part time. It is a proper Real life test. Why the Americans do it back to front and have surgery first is a mystery? what if they ccouldn't hack it as a female and want to revert back to being a male?, the damage is done and that seems dangerous to me..
While you only get the M out after SRS,
if you live with an unmistakeably female name, and most are,
you get essentially the same result since not many instances
depend on that M. Plenty of TS have lived female stealth
lives for many years pre-op with just a name change.
Quote from: Keira on January 17, 2008, 01:29:37 PM
if you live with an unmistakeably female name, and most are,
you get essentially the same result since not many instances
depend on that M.
Exactly. I can't think of any way that my "M" is invalidating of my RLT. Very few people... if anyone really... ever see it. They DO see and hear my name, however. Still though, before my name change, the only places that needed to know my male name were doctors and dentists (for insurance). I was Kate at work and in every other aspect of my life long before it became my legal name on my ID.
~Kate~
Quote from: Berliegh on January 17, 2008, 07:38:08 AM
Quote from: Tink on January 16, 2008, 10:46:04 PM
In California, it is possible to change your name and gender marker on your driver license or ID card even if you are pre-op. I was able to change my gender marker with the SSA prior to having SRS in the early 90's too. I guess I was one of the lucky ones before the 9/11 nightmare.
Since 2002, the SSA requires proof of SRS to change gender marker on their records. After SRS, I was also able to change my birth certificate; they issued me a new BC (not an amended one) with the correct gender and name this time. ::)
tink :icon_chick:
The criteria and the HBSOC criteria is that you live at least 1 year in your new role. In the U.K it is expected that you will change all ID at least a year minimum before you are considered for GRS. The idea being to see if you can hack it for over a year with a female ID , so there are no ways of opting out or only living part time. It is a proper Real life test. Why the Americans do it back to front and have surgery first is a mystery? what if they ccouldn't hack it as a female and want to revert back to being a male?, the damage is done and that seems dangerous to me..
Usually in order to change your gender maker in California, you have to have a therapist's authorization which you take to the DMV office. Without this letter/authorization (which specifies the diagnosis, type of HRT and the time you have been living as your target gender), you can't change your gender marker at all. The therapist who issues this letter to the DMV (Department of Motor Vehicles) is supposed to follow the SOC. Normally this letter/authorization can't be issued until the patient has completed at least 12 months of RLT (living and working as their target gender). Hence, Berliegh, the US doesn't do anything backwards as you stated, for everything falls under the guidelines of the SOC.
tink :icon_chick:
P.S. Also, are you familiar with U.S. laws? Each state has its own law, so what is doable in California may not be so in...let's say...Oregon, for instance.
Here in Quebec, it is hell. Though I heard, and saw for myself (in person) that a friend changed her gender on her medicare card while pre-op (which normally isn't authorized).
In Quebec, reasons to change your name must be 'serious', and unless it is, it is usually denied.
Unpronounceable, defamed, common usage, proof of trans-related therapy and diagnosis.
Common usage relies on 5 years of using the name, though I don't know how you can provide proof of using it since you can't use it legally. Maybe someone's testimony to it is accepted?
The proof of therapy requires a diagnosis of GID, and proof of HRT-taking by whoever is giving you HRT. Then you send a form, it's all paperwork, no court. It takes 6-ish months to receive an answer, costs 300$, and that doesn't guarantee it being accepted.
Gender on ID depends on SRS - and I mean on all IDs: driver's license, medicare card, passport, social security card if they got anything about it, birth certificate. Fortunately, you only need a testimony from someone in the province that surgery was performed (it doesn't need to be performed here, or even in Canada at all). Unfortunately, Quebec's plan doesn't pay for SRS. It's possible to get a friendly person when renewing medicare card and changing name (and get a F pre-op)...but I wouldn't count on it - officially they require proof of documentation to allow it. The only way to have it pass unnoticed is 'as a mistake' (that they correct by putting a F...I guess passing helps).
Schala, I'm from Quebec, and got my name changed last year. The whole process,
about 8 month, but it could have been 6 months if I'd been a bit more on the ball.
Its very long and the more proof of how seriously you need the name change,
the quicker you get a decision. I got a paper from my psychologist who's associated
with Mcgill, send photos that showed I couldn't pass as male even if I wanted, and
send a FFS doc from Brassard (the fact that brassard's also involved in SRS helped me
cause they trust him). Had to post in a local paper 2 weeks and in the official gazette of the province two more week. Was delayed by needing to get some supporting docs during the summer when my FFS surgeon and psychologist where absent. Got the decision in about 4 month and 1 month later got the name change certificate.
I got a quick decision. Someone in my group who send the docs in June still has not had a decision.
If your not a TS, have little supporting docs and don't have a psychologically traumatising name,
forget about changing your name in the province of Quebec.
Quote from: Keira on January 18, 2008, 01:22:08 PM
Schala, I'm from Quebec, and got my name changed last year. The whole process,
about 8 month, but it could have been 6 months if I'd been a bit more on the ball.
Its very long and the more proof of how seriously you need the name change,
the quicker you get a decision. I got a paper from my psychologist who's associated
with Mcgill, send photos that showed I couldn't pass as male even if I wanted, and
send a FFS doc from Brassard (the fact that brassard's also involved in SRS helped me
cause they trust him). Had to post in a local paper 2 weeks and in the official gazette of the province two more week. Was delayed by needing to get some supporting docs during the summer when my FFS surgeon and psychologist where absent. Got the decision in about 4 month and 1 month later got the name change certificate.
I got a quick decision. Someone in my group who send the docs in June still has not had a decision.
If your not a TS, have little supporting docs and don't have a psychologically traumatising name,
forget about changing your name in the province of Quebec.
That sounds absurd for requirements...
Technically they can't deny a male from bearing a female name (because of Micheline Montreuil: On November 1, 1999, the provincial court of appeal [of Quebec province] ruled that nothing in the law prevented a person who was legally male from legally adopting a woman's name. (from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_change ). And a GID diagnosis plus mention of taking HRT should be proof enough - that's all that should be needed for name change, even here.
Proof or even affirmation of FFS, SRS, or a degree of passability shouldn't even matter. Unless they're not holding true to that decision.
Since I'm on welfare, if I get the GID diagnosis, and it gets refused over some BS like that, I will take advantage of government court aid and challenge them on that.
Hi Audrey
I am happy for you. You are truly very passable hon. I never used any lawyers or anything else, I didn't have the money at the time for that. I filled out all the papers myself and I first sent out for my new birth certificate, after I got that everything else fell into place and all my documents show an F on them now, God speed on the surgery.
Cindy
Hi Keira hon
I feel sorry that you had to go through all that BS to get your documents changed. Paper work drives me up the wall, I am not much of a paper person, but I did managed to do all the paper work done myself and had all the documents changed and back to me within a couple of months. I don't think I would want to live in Quebec. I liked Ontario, but it was getting to the point I couldn't handle the cold anymore and since they don't cover SRS Wing Walker and I moved to BC so that she could have the surgery covered. I love BC but still miss the familiarity of Ontario.
Cindy
Quote from: Renate on January 18, 2008, 04:16:11 PM
Quote from: Keira on January 18, 2008, 01:22:08 PM
The whole process, about 8 month, but it could have been 6 months if I'd been a bit more on the ball.
That's an absurd system. Here in WV it took two weeks and would have cost me $200, but I was too poor.
"Common usage" was the reason I gave. A few people for a couple of weeks had addressed me by that name.
Anybody can change theiir name to anything as long as it isn't obscene or has numbers in it.
Transgender had absolutely nothing to do with my name change.
And as far as gender goes, I don't really lose all that much sleep about M's floating around.
One day it will get fixed.
Renate
Here common usage has to be 'proven' for 2 or 5 years (I was told both at different times). I don't know what constitues proof. I can't register a phone bill to my new name before it's legal, I can't get a rent under that name before then either, I can't change IDs, I can't at the bank, I can't for HR department if I work...so what proof?
So far I've used the name "Sara" exclusively (unless forced to use my legal name/ID) for 22 months.
Quote from: Renate on January 18, 2008, 04:16:11 PM
That's an absurd system. Here in WV it took two weeks and would have cost me $200, but I was too poor.
Here in VA it took 10 days and cost $34 to file. You don't need a lawyer, the county courthouse provides the documents at its web site you can DIY.
If your a TS, especially followed by one of the gender clinics and ,
and have more proof of having had concretely transitioned
and can prove the distress that your name causes you, then the
5 year common usage is waved.
Micheline Montreuil would probably have never have had this accelerated
waiver because she didn't really qualify. The battle was over giving a female
name to a male no matter how long you have been using it;
this interdiction was arbitrary and rightly eliminated. ITs only later, I think 2004,
that some TS group in quebec where able to convince the name change
agency in Quebec of waving the usual 5 years for transitioning TS.
Again DIY doesn't help unless it shows clearly in your face and body (that's why I
used the photos and FFS letters). I had DIY, so
I knew I wouldn't have a paper from a doctor about hormones,
so I needed to get some other proof of action, FFS papers are not usually used).
But, like I said, someone in the same clinic gave her paper at around the same time, and
she's already 2.5 months later without a decision. I think I was able to
force them to decide in my favor by piling the evidence.
Its a bit crazy that you have to work so hard for this. But, Quebec's bureaucratie is
one of the least effective on this continent.
Yeah, the name change has been a bit of a bureaucratic hassle, but I'm just happy that in this post 9/11 world that it's still possible without too much fuss. In the US, we're pretty lucky in this matter, since other countries seem to have more restrictions. IIRC, in Germany, one can't change one's last name (though the records are impounded, leaving less of a trace of the name change than in the US).
Lia
Quote from: Keira on January 18, 2008, 08:13:49 PM
If your a TS, especially followed by one of the gender clinics and ,
and have more proof of having had concretely transitioned
and can prove the distress that your name causes you, then the
5 year common usage is waved.
You mean the General Montreal Hospital's GIC? It's almost a joke, accepting 10% of applicants, and making them follow CAMH-like requirements... I got refused entry, after being 6 months on HRT and 7 months full-time, because I was 'not emotionally stable enough' according to the head shrink there, Dr Assalian. He mentioned believing in reincarnation as being pointing to some mental problem...yeah he really lives with his time...
Quote from: gothique11 on January 14, 2008, 09:27:45 PM
That sux that you have to go to court in the States and actually put your name change in the local paper.
...
--natalie
I did mine in Washington state and I didn't have to put anything in the paper. Court was not a big deal. The judge was sweet and signed off with no problems. I had the gender marker changed a week later.
Karen Lyn
Yeah, Assalian is of another generation and needs to retire.
The other GID clinic I went too in 1990 (I think its Notre Dame)
was even worse, the head guy said he was forced to call gays not
sick but they were!! I didn't go into that program for a reason...
But, the younger therapist in the Montral General program are OK;
The program is also associated to Mcgill now (not sure if it was before).
I went DIY myself and they didn't kick me out (I was already in).
Been in and out of this thing since 1992 so I've been around awhile.
If they jerk me around too much I'd go to Thailand anyway,
so its mainly because I need a therapist (I'm pretty messed up)
and they're good and know me well that I stay with the program.
When did you go to the Montreal General Hospital.
Quote from: Keira on January 18, 2008, 11:12:00 PM
Yeah, Assalian is of another generation and needs to retire.
The other GID clinic I went too in 1990 (I think its Notre Dame)
was even worse, the head guy said he was forced to call gays not
sick but they were!! I didn't go into that program for a reason...
But, the younger therapist in the Montral General program are OK;
The program is also associated to Mcgill now (not sure if it was before).
I went DIY myself and they didn't kick me out (I was already in).
Been in and out of this thing since 1992 so I've been around awhile.
If they jerk me around too much I'd go to Thailand anyway,
so its mainly because I need a therapist (I'm pretty messed up)
and they're good and know me well that I stay with the program.
When did you go to the Montreal General Hospital.
I went in November 2006. I had a friend (street worker, accompanying me) with me, she was allowed to hear Assalian's 'verdict'.
In 1990 I was a bit too young, but it's when I started asking serious questions to myself (I was 8 ).
Quote from: Renate on January 18, 2008, 08:06:52 PM
$34 was the total? With court costs? With legal notice insertion?
Yes... that's all it took. I didn't have to appear in court, didn't have to do anything but fill out the petition, pay the money, and provide a self-addressed stamped envelope.
Quoteget affadavits from friends, employers, teachers, neighbors, etc that they all know you by that name for the last 2 years. judges like it when you lay things out for them and make their jobs easier.
ashley
The thing is, it's not a judge, it doesn't go to court (unless you contest a decision). Micheline Montreuil went to court, as a lawyer herself, to contest decisions.
If your not with a therapist, it will be painfully long unless you've change so much
that even them, have to admit keeping the old name is ridiculous (so DIY is a
must in your case!). Even then, I suspect it will be long unless you do something
drastic like FFS. Surgery seems to make them go faster!
Quote from: Keira on January 19, 2008, 04:00:55 PM
If your not with a therapist, it will be painfully long unless you've change so much
that even them, have to admit keeping the old name is ridiculous (so DIY is a
must in your case!). Even then, I suspect it will be long unless you do something
drastic like FFS. Surgery seems to make them go faster!
How do they measure 'change'?
I'm with a psychiatrist, and an endo (well soon, for the endo). I'm not DIY really, I went to a generalist who prescribed them, and then to my family doctor. I never ordered from overseas (although I've been tempted), mainly due to not having a credit card (bankrupcy...).
OK, well then its not too bad.
If you've got a therapist or endo
you may get it just as fast as I did (or slightly slower).
Hi Schala
I don't know how the Quebec government handles TS business but I will say by what I have read here it appears to suck big time.
Of one thing I am certain about with a word of encouragement and that is you are a very attractive kid and you will pass quite fine I bet after a few months on Estrogen. Stick close to Keira
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on January 19, 2008, 04:54:29 PM
Hi Schala
I don't know how the Quebec government handles TS business but I will say by what I have read here it appears to suck big time.
Of one thing I am certain about with a word of encouragement and that is you are a very attractive kid and you will pass quite fine I bet after a few months on Estrogen. Stick close to Keira
Cindy
Thank you Cindy.
Well, it's been my estimation (which is indeed, not perfect) that I passed perfectly by November 2006, after 6 months of estrogen. It has been 20 months now. How I deduced it is no one paid undue attention to me, whispered, stared or other rude behaviors I was subjected to in my androgynous state pre-transition and after, when just beginning HRT, bra-less (and breast-less).
It was both funny and sad to cause confusion in people pre-transition, or to gauge their reaction. Funny because I basically was able to 'pass without even trying' (that is, in men's clothes, no makeup) some of the time, sad because I couldn't tolerate this in-between state much longer (I've been physically androgynous most my life).
I'm not sure I've met Keira in person before, or I might have but we didn't have a chance to speak. I was at a trans pride event in April 2007 at an university in downtown Montreal (UQAM was it?), but I rarely go out (due to financial reasons mainly).
Sara
Hi Schala, "Wow!" I knew you were on hormones but didn't know how long. Believe me you are pretty and I do believe you will pass as a girl when you start dressing like one. I am only suggesting that you keep in touch with Keira, is because I have been reading Keira, posts ever since I got here back in August and she impresses me as someone who knows her stuff and she's available right here on this board. I trust her to know what she speaks about and she lives in the same province.
Cindy
Quote from: cindybc on January 19, 2008, 08:13:05 PM
Hi Schala, "Wow!" I knew you were on hormones but didn't know how long. Believe me you are pretty and I do believe you will pass as a girl when you start dressing like one. I am only suggesting that you keep in touch with Keira, is because I have been reading Keira, posts ever since I got here back in August and she impresses me as someone who knows her stuff and she's available right here on this board. I trust her to know what she speaks about and she lives in the same province.
Cindy
Well, I do dress like one :P I have since 1 month pre-HRT: April 2006, when I got my first set of ear piercings (I have two now)...and that's how I remember the date.
and reading Keira's post, suggests she is in Montreal, which is where I lived 17 years of my 25 years. I live just in the suburb north-east of it (maybe 20-30 min in car), in Terrebonne. I've lived here for a bit over two years, it will make three in June. A bit less than a year presenting as male (or androgynous anyway), and nearly two as female. The people I know have been generally supportive when I did transition (and still are), mostly asking questions out of curiosity.
Most people don't make the connection between the 'old' and the 'new' me, or don't remember (or never saw me before). So I don't have issues using women's bathrooms, shopping in girl/women's clothes shops, or anything. I avoid changing rooms.
Its funny, got my ear repierced (since I had it before but it had close up a few year earlier) about 2 month post hormones in septempter 2006. Oh know, the suburbs! Oh the horror! I'm a city gall through and through.
Passed about 95% by 4 months! (nobody can really claim 100% unless we can read minds). Now,
19 months in.
Anyway, good luck Schala with the name change thing.
Montreal's a great place. but, for name changes, the government of quebec SUCKS.
Quote from: Schala on January 19, 2008, 07:58:08 PM
It was both funny and sad to cause confusion in people pre-transition, or to gauge their reaction. Funny because I basically was able to 'pass without even trying' (that is, in men's clothes, no makeup) some of the time, sad because I couldn't tolerate this in-between state much longer (I've been physically androgynous most my life).
A very interesting point! If you ever get the chance, read Jamison Green's
Becoming a Visible Man (or something like that title). Though an FTM, most of his experience is universal to transpeople. He mentioned how there are those of us (like Green), who prior to transition, do not have passing privilege because of our appearance not matching our birth sex, and who then pass after transition; this, of course, is in opposition to those of us who pass as members of our birth sex before transition, but afterwards do not. Of course, if FFS becomes more affordable in the future, this phenomenon might be lessened, but I think it's ironic that for some particularly androgynous people, transitioning will give them passing privilege, while others lose it forever. The lucky ones, while becoming themselves, become passing members of society, while others must give this up in order to live as the sex they feel that they are.
Quote from: Keira on January 19, 2008, 10:16:55 PM
Its funny, got my ear repierced (since I had it before but it had close up a few year earlier) about 2 month post hormones in septempter 2006. Oh know, the suburbs! Oh the horror! I'm a city gall through and through.
Passed about 95% by 4 months! (nobody can really claim 100% unless we can read minds). Now,
19 months in.
Anyway, good luck Schala with the name change thing.
Montreal's a great place. but, for name changes, the government of quebec SUCKS.
Like I was told, on my way to my endo this week "The most beautiful women are in Montreal" :P It made me laugh a bit. Especially that the comment was directed at me... Well I had a winter coat, so all he could see was my 'cute ass', legs and my head.
I know I had my share of stares during April, May, and June...it became much less noticeable in July, next to nothing in August, nothing in September, but I 'declared' it officially by November. It mostly had to do with being flat-chested and my acne I guess (which went away by fall 2006).
I've had acne between 1999 and 2006...although I hardly became masculine. Hard to explain that one.
@genovais: Yes it's an interesting point. Though I suspect a good enough portion of the androgynous ones, especially past puberty, have some intersex condition. I think I read a figure saying 40% of Harry Benjamin's original patients had an IS condition (most probably XXY, statistically anyway).
Hi, Schala,
That is good. As I said, I didn't know how long you have been on hormones or how long you have been full time. I missed a previous couple of posts, I guess.
It appears you have come out for some time. Being accepted by folks is a wonderful thing to hear. I lived in a small town for ten years and for seven years I was out, full-time. I never had any problems with anyone. People soon got use to calling me by my right name and proper gender pronouns. Well, maybe I got hit in the head by a horse shoe when I was born. LOL!! Better than having people throwing over-ripe vegetables at me!!.
I pray that your journey be good and that you be well.
Cindy
So, I've been putting off going to Social Security, like, forever! I've got my court ordered change of name and gender but no surgeon's letter about SRS because I'm non-op, see? So I go in, take a number and wait to be called. My name is called and I go to the window and tell the worker I want to change my name and gender on my SSA account. I show her my court order and my CDL which she looks over and then proceeds to enter the info into the computer. A moment later 2 documents print out. One is for me to sign and te other for her. She takes mine, hands me her letter affirming the changes and that I should receive my new card within 10 days! A passport and I'm done with all the legal stuff!
Im lucky cause a friend of mine is a supervisor at the SS office so I shouldn't have to deal with too much akwardness.
Audrey