During my recent consultation with my surgeon I was offered an option between a zero depth vaginoplasty (vulvoplasty) and a standard vaginoplasty with a canal. I was wondering if anyone could shed light on the recovery time for a vulvoplasty? I am lesbian and not into penises or attracted to men, but I am still debating my decision in case I find a partner that would be interested in penetrating me, perhaps with a douple dildo or strap on, but at the same time, I don't really want to go through the lifetime maintenance required by a vaginoplasty. I' have had an orchiectomy already. Any information anyone could give me regarding their experience would be much appreciated. Thank you :)
Hi Ejo
I have just had to make that decision, my reasons are different but certainly I considered recovery. In the end I decided On full depth...if I don't want to maintain my vaginal canal I dont have to but if I felt incomplete or unhappy without depth there is nothing I can do about it. Talking with many of the girls prior to surgery and they all said in the end dialation was not a deal breaker for them
Good luck with your decision
Liz
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I don't have any experience (yet) with the zero-depth procedure. I am told that the recovery time is shorter, and of course less followup maintenance is required.
I talked to my therapist at some length about this decision. (Spoiler alert: I am going to go for the zero-depth procedure.) I had some of the same concerns as you do. What if I meet some nice woman who wants to play with a dildo?
In my case, it was a hypothetical question, since I am happily married. But supposing I was looking for a new partner...
My therapist's answer was that, no matter who that hypothetical partner was, I was going to have to do some explaining no matter which procedure I had. And that partner would have to accept several non-standard features about me, such as deep voice, broad shoulders, etc. So explaining a zero-depth vagina is just one more thing. A partner has to accept me the way I am, oddities and all.
I liked the way she explained that, and it set my mind at ease about the "what-if"s.
Quote from: LizK on December 04, 2018, 07:36:33 PM
Hi Ejo
I have just had to make that decision, my reasons are different but certainly I considered recovery. In the end I decided On full depth...if I don't want to maintain my vaginal canal I dont have to but if I felt incomplete or unhappy without depth there is nothing I can do about it. Talking with many of the girls prior to surgery and they all said in the end dialation was not a deal breaker for them
Good luck with your decision
Liz
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Someone else that just had a zero depth vaginoplasty told me that creating a vaginal canal later is an option. Her zero depth procedure was just a month ago.
I have not looked into this much yet but I am curious because at this stage I have only had an orchiectomy. Due to heart problems and other issues I am thinking this surgery might be a better option for me.
I did know that it could be done after but was not sure what the issues(if any) were around having it done as another procedure. I guess if you are still unsure then that is the perfect solution. I don't think there is any right answer except what works for you.
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I plan to also go the zero depth (or minimal depth) route. The procedure is way more simple, and, very important, shorter. This puts less burden on ones body. Furthermore, there will no cavity created in a normal sterile part of the body, which reduces the chances for an infection dramatically (I am specialized in pre- and post operative infection control & prevention), and the healing is shorter, too.
I do not ever plan to have my body penetrated by any object (either a human penis or some artificial copy of one), and a vaginal cavity is just not required for my well being.
I have spent the last year researching this very issue, along with email discussions with six different GRS surgeons in Thailand, Israel, and the US. I have also communicated directly with three other trans women who have recently had this type of GRS. I myself also decided to go with the partial or no depth vaginoplasty last August, my surgery is next week in the US on December 14. For me this was a compromise decision. Because of my age, I understood that this type of GRS is easier on the body, less chance for complications, and shorter recovery time. Also, I currently have no need for penetrative sex as my lifetime partner is female. However, she is much older than I am and has some serious aging issues. I felt that after GRS I needed to be completely free to devote myself to her needs and not be caught up in a long recovery and regular dilation. However, in the future I would possibly be open to a relationship with a man and would enjoy the experience of penetrative sex. Yes, it is possible to do a full vaginoplasty after a partial, but obviously the material has to come from somewhere else than the traditional penile inversion technique. The one option today is a sigmoid colon vagina, the other which is still very new and is rarely done, is a peritoneum skin source. This would of course involve another major surgery with all the risks that were previously avoided.
Sorry for posting so late on this topic. I just saw the post and replies.
I am having Zero-Depth Vaginoplasty / Vulvoplasty on February 4th (2 1/2 weeks away). I have a pre-op appointment tomorrow to discuss details with my surgeon.
I chose this procedure over full depth because of my age, sexual orientation, and medical history.
I've found it next to impossible to find detailed information about recovery for zero-depth but will gladly share my experience as I take this path.
<3 Tiff
Thanks for posting, Tiff. I will look forward to hearing about your results. My procedure is not likely to be until the end of this year at the earliest, so having advance information will be helpful.
Quote from: New Girl Tiff on January 16, 2019, 03:34:25 PM
Sorry for posting so late on this topic. I just saw the post and replies.
I am having Zero-Depth Vaginoplasty / Vulvoplasty on February 4th (2 1/2 weeks away). I have a pre-op appointment tomorrow to discuss details with my surgeon.
I chose this procedure over full depth because of my age, sexual orientation, and medical history.
I've found it next to impossible to find detailed information about recovery for zero-depth but will gladly share my experience as I take this path.
<3 Tiff
Thank you. I am planning to have the same done for the same reasons as you do, for the case I have any bottom surgery at all.
I thought that I would add to this thread as someone who is recovering from a modified vaginoplasty. I am about five weeks post op. I have found my recovery emotionally and physically very difficult, much more than I expected. I still find it painful to sit for more than one half hour unless I take pain medication, my swelling has gone down, but is still there, and I am still dealing with the need to regularly place gauze and antibiotic cream in my vagina to assist healing. Even though I do not have to dilate, I still have maintenance procedures that I have to perform a number of times daily because of minor complications. On the positive side I am healing and feel that the worst is certainly behind me.
I realize that this is my experience, I am a highly emotional, somewhat hysterical woman. However, I never had a moment of regret, just dismay. I have no idea if my recovery would have been more difficult with a full vaginoplasty. Nevertheless, the results are awesome and I am so grateful I had the determination and courage to do it.
Quote from: Dorit on January 21, 2019, 04:42:00 AM
I am so grateful I had the determination and courage to do it.
And I admire you for this. I still don't know whether I can justify the cost/benefit package for this surgery, considering my age.
I would not be concerned about any possible infections during healing, because it is my profession to prevent them, or eliminate them very early in the process. It just is an absolute cost question for me at this time of my life!
I am considering the option at the moment with a lot of interest.
Fantasy-me is quite thinking about penetration. But in my actual physical life I am not that sexually active.
I am not really thrilled about life-long dilatation procedures. I fear the post-op complications as I am doing a lot of sport. And because I am afraid of the months of recovery.
Nonetheless, social life and shared space would be less stressful and will trigger less dysphorie with a SRS.
So maybe shallow depth vaginoplasty is for me a good option.
I would be interested in information about feelings afterward and recovery time =)
Cheers,
dentifrice, just remember at the time you have srs is the best time to get a full depth vagina, so be sure you will never ever want one.
I don't really take the "be 100% sure" it made me wait 20 yrs to start HRT. It was perfectionism.
I am thinking about SRS for very long time but I am not sure I want to live with a canal that I must dilate forever and maybe not use that often - while I am lesbian mostly asexual. My fear of pain hold me back for so long... maybe is time for compromising.
Because while I think about SRS, I live with my penis and have T-blocker to drink every day.
I am not saying that I have my mind made. I am considering full depth as well. But I also understand that no one is 100% sure of anything and I accept to live with the fact that I might fail sometime. I hope failures make me understand myself better and improve for next time. :angel:
Hi Dentrice
It is such a big decision and one I have had to recently had to make. Being about 70 days post op I can tell you from my perspective that the surgery and recovery was far less painful that I thought it would be. After day 2 post op I took only Panadol for a few more days and then by the time I was discharged on day 7 I had minimal/no pain. When nerves reconnect it is not uncommon to get shooting pains but these were brief.
In the end I decided that I would have full depth surgery and if the dilation became too much I would always just stop. In the end I find the dilation times quite a nice way to have time to just lie back and chill. The actual act of dilation is pretty low key and not the hassle I once thought it would be. Yes there are times when it can get in the way of what I am doing but I am down to 2 times a day already and it won't be long until its once a day and then once a week.
I am sure you will reach a decision when you are ready.
Liz
While we're on the topic, I'm wondering something.
I had GCS over 4 years ago with Dr. Brassard.
I have maintained dilation since day 1.
In a little over 40 days, I'll be on a 4-6 month hike of the Appalachian Trail. 75% of the time will be spent sleeping in a tent, but every 7-10 days I had planned to get off trail, get a motel room and dilate.
My question is this: What if I didn't take my dilators? Not only are they heavy, inconvenient to carry, but being by myself for these months, can I get away without dilating?
Thanks so much
I just found this thread and thought that I might put my two cents in.
Nina, I do not have any experience in the area you are asking but have heard from several girls on Susan's that they have at times gone long time between dilations (one poster even mentioned years) and just needed extra time and effort to regain their full depth. Perhaps they may post soon. Your mileage will definitely vary.
I chose to have a shallow or cosmetic procedure done almost a year and a half ago and I have been very happy with the choice and the outcome. Our primary reason for this choice was not desiring penetrative sex and the simplicity of no dilation, age also played a factor. The healing time was similar as most of the healing was dealing with swelling and the incisions which are very similar between procedures. I did not have to deal with granulation which simplified things even more. No dilation has been a big thing for me/us. We travel a lot and not having to find time and space for the regular maintenance has been great. All that said, if the choice had been just for me and not with my partner I would have chosen a full depth procedure. No regrets but alone I would have gone down the other path.
Please PM me if you have any specific queries,
Tia Anne
Nina, how often are you dilating now? You might try not dilating for 2 week now before go leave and see how it goes then. You have about 6 weeks to do a experimenting as to how tight you are after various times.
Quote from: mm on February 14, 2019, 04:22:27 PM
Nina, how often are you dilating now? You might try not dilating for 2 week now before go leave and see how it goes then. You have about 6 weeks to do a experimenting as to how tight you are after various times.
I dilate about every 10 days or so. Do I have depth that I had say 3 years ago? No. Maybe 80%.
How awesome it would be, and one less thing to worry about while hiking. Problem of having to carry gel, dilators...then the cost of a motel every 10 days.
Quote from: Anne Blake on February 14, 2019, 03:27:23 PM
Nina, I do not have any experience in the area you are asking but have heard from several girls on Susan's that they have at times gone long time between dilations (one poster even mentioned years) and just needed extra time and effort to regain their full depth. Perhaps they may post soon. Your mileage will definitely vary.
Thank you! If I could even go 5 months, that'd be amazing.
Quote from: dentifrice on February 14, 2019, 01:07:15 PM
I don't really take the "be 100% sure" it made me wait 20 yrs to start HRT. It was perfectionism.
I am thinking about SRS for very long time but I am not sure I want to live with a canal that I must dilate forever and maybe not use that often - while I am lesbian mostly asexual. My fear of pain hold me back for so long... maybe is time for compromising.
Because while I think about SRS, I live with my penis and have T-blocker to drink every day.
I am not saying that I have my mind made. I am considering full depth as well. But I also understand that no one is 100% sure of anything and I accept to live with the fact that I might fail sometime. I hope failures make me understand myself better and improve for next time. :angel:
Hi, Dentrifice. I, too, am considering the "zero-depth" option. Like you, I am a mostly asexual lesbian. I wanted to be sure in my own mind that I would be okay with this option, so I booked a session with my therapist specifically to talk about it. After talking to her, I ended up reasoning like this:
- I don't want a penis anywhere near me: I have no desire for that kind of penetration. That will not change. Ever.
- My current partner is not interested in playing in a vagina, so I have no need there.
- I am not going to ever have a uterus or ovaries, so any notion of "female completeness" is a fiction. If I can do without those organs, I can do without a vagina.
- In the unlikely event that (a) my wife left me,
and (b) I found a new partner
and (c) I became sexually active with that partner
and (d) that partner wanted to play with my vagina, I'd have to disappoint her. As a trans woman, I already have a bunch of oddities that would need to be explained to a new partner, so one more isn't going to make a big difference. ...In that long-shot situation.
So, even though I was not 100% sure that it was the right decision, I am 99.9% sure, and that's good enough. The cosmetic procedure will eliminate my remaining body dysphoria, and allow me to function in areas that are off-limits with my current anatomy: swimsuits, locker rooms, etc.
By the way, Dentrifice, I see that, although you are not exactly new here, it has been a while since you were active on the forum. I just want to welcome you back!
Please feel free to stop by the Introductions forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) to tell the members about yourself. Here is some information that we like to share with new and returning members:
Things that you should read
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Quote from: KathyLauren on February 14, 2019, 07:53:40 PM
Hi, Dentrifice. I, too, am considering the "zero-depth" option. Like you, I am a mostly asexual lesbian. I wanted to be sure in my own mind that I would be okay with this option, so I booked a session with my therapist specifically to talk about it. After talking to her, I ended up reasoning like this:
- I don't want a penis anywhere near me: I have no desire for that kind of penetration. That will not change. Ever.
- My current partner is not interested in playing in a vagina, so I have no need there.
- I am not going to ever have a uterus or ovaries, so any notion of "female completeness" is a fiction. If I can do without those organs, I can do without a vagina.
- In the unlikely event that (a) my wife left me, and (b) I found a new partner and (c) I became sexually active with that partner and (d) that partner wanted to play with my vagina, I'd have to disappoint her. As a trans woman, I already have a bunch of oddities that would need to be explained to a new partner, so one more isn't going to make a big difference. ...In that long-shot situation.
So, even though I was not 100% sure that it was the right decision, I am 99.9% sure, and that's good enough. The cosmetic procedure will eliminate my remaining body dysphoria, and allow me to function in areas that are off-limits with my current anatomy: swimsuits, locker rooms, etc.
I consider the zero depth for the same reason you do, and if I ever will have it done, this is the only viable way for me.
I get my orchi next week, and have to see if this is enough for me.
My parts have so atrophied over the last 15 years that I can wear swimsuits already, and once the testes are gone, it might be even easier!
I find this discussion very very interesting and important for me, thanks you all.
Quote from: KathyLauren on February 14, 2019, 07:53:40 PM
So, even though I was not 100% sure that it was the right decision, I am 99.9% sure, and that's good enough. The cosmetic procedure will eliminate my remaining body dysphoria, and allow me to function in areas that are off-limits with my current anatomy: swimsuits, locker rooms, etc.
I fully relate.
-I was considering Vagino for dysphoria, shared space, swimsuits, ... an maybe try out having a vagina and see if it increase my libido as I will be more in match with the version of myself I fantasize. => feeling better, but complications and life long dilatation procedure.
-I was considering to do nothing, because I also realise I would never be CIS nor "complete" and dysphoria is mostly gone. Maybe it is time to embrace myself and learn to be me, proud and unashamed. => have to work on acceptance, but no medical complication and procedure to stick to.
Now that I think about shallow depth, it made the fear of operation lower and I feel like it is a suitable a compromise in my decades-long internal debate about "should I stay or should I go ?".
However, I don't know if I will never want to play with my vagina or if it would make my sexual life more complete. It is unlikely as i dont really need sexual life. And it would be already way better than what it is now... but if the recovery time is long and painful anyway, then maybe it is not that bad to go full depth while I am already on the table. Somehow I also find the fact to be 'incomplete' part of being trans. I don't like my hairs, face, shape,... but it is me and I love myself ^^ I really need to think deep and calm about it ??? ;D
I did not considered the fact that I might go for a trip around the globe, or for weeks of hiking... living in poor comfort condition for sometime and maybe not having a cavity will help me with no having to care about this part. It will be less functional but also less of a burden.
On the other hand I did not think the recovery time for "only" shallow depth would be almost as long.
Overall i need to talk about all this with my partener and with my psy. Thanks again everyone.
And yes I am not that "new" but i am more than happy to be welcomed again =D
Quote from: KathyLauren on February 14, 2019, 07:53:40 PM
Hi, Dentrifice. I, too, am considering the "zero-depth" option. Like you, I am a mostly asexual lesbian. I wanted to be sure in my own mind that I would be okay with this option, so I booked a session with my therapist specifically to talk about it. After talking to her, I ended up reasoning like this:
- I don't want a penis anywhere near me: I have no desire for that kind of penetration. That will not change. Ever.
- My current partner is not interested in playing in a vagina, so I have no need there.
- I am not going to ever have a uterus or ovaries, so any notion of "female completeness" is a fiction. If I can do without those organs, I can do without a vagina.
- In the unlikely event that (a) my wife left me, and (b) I found a new partner and (c) I became sexually active with that partner and (d) that partner wanted to play with my vagina, I'd have to disappoint her. As a trans woman, I already have a bunch of oddities that would need to be explained to a new partner, so one more isn't going to make a big difference. ...In that long-shot situation.
So, even though I was not 100% sure that it was the right decision, I am 99.9% sure, and that's good enough. The cosmetic procedure will eliminate my remaining body dysphoria, and allow me to function in areas that are off-limits with my current anatomy: swimsuits, locker rooms, etc.
Wow. This is pretty much a summary of what I said at my last therapist appointment when we talked about surgery.
I've not had a consultation yet but as of now am leaning in this direction. If I had the time, patience and money I'd look into the newer procedures that require less dilation.
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Quote from: dentifrice on February 15, 2019, 02:52:32 AM
... but if the recovery time is long and painful anyway, then maybe it is not that bad to go full depth while I am already on the table. Somehow I also find the fact to be 'incomplete' part of being trans. I don't like my hairs, face, shape,... but it is me and I love myself ^^ I really need to think deep and calm about it ??? ;D
On the other hand I did not think the recovery time for "only" shallow depth would be almost as long.
Let me chime into this as a person who made his living with research on how to control and prevent pre and post surgical infections.
The best way to do this is to prevent incissions into normal sterile areas of the body. The abdominal cavity is such a sterile area. The nature of a vaginoplasty requires it to be introduced into said cavity, and the steril area has to be jeopardized, and this can lead to a wound infection. if part of the colon is used, which is a naturally dirty part of our body, and this part is introduced into the sterile are, the chances for a possible wound infection is even larger!
Concerning the minimal depth vulvoplasty, there is hardly any need to open up the abdominal sterile area of the body, and the chances of a possible critical wound infections is less prevalent.
About the healing of each wound I would say that the exterior parts, the cosmetic side, of both surgeries are pretty similar, and a similar healing can be expected, The vaginoplasty healing is way more involved, and seems to be an ongoing process, because the body tries to fill in voids inside the abdominal cavity. And because of this one has to dilate all the time to prevent the body fro doing this kind of "healing".
My main concern for not doing the vagina part is the higher infection rate and the endless work for keeping the vagina open!
It is really interesting.
I was considering Chettawut for the surgery as it is one of the best for vagino, he might be good for vulvoplasty, I guess... But do you know if there are different techniques/styles/methods from surgeron to another ?
Cheers,
Quote from: dentifrice on February 15, 2019, 10:33:50 AM
It is really interesting.
I was considering Chettawut for the surgery as it is one of the best for vagino, he might be good for vulvoplasty, I guess... But do you know if there are different techniques/styles/methods from surgeron to another ?
Cheers,
I don't know much about urology/cosmetic surgery, but I know that almost every surgeon has their own little tricks and experiences. I would try to read up as much as I can on outcome (you mind find it here and on reditt), and than make my decission. Just be aware, surgeons are also humans and can and will make mistakes once in a while.
The elss they have to cut on you, the lesser the chance for major mistakes.
It is your call, because it is your body. I don't know how old you are, and what your sexual orientation is. The way it looks like for my case, a vagina is just a waste of a hole in my body! But who knows, it will be at least another year for me!
During conversation about complications with my surgeon he warned me that one of the possible complications of the zero depth surgery is that the clitoris can become strangulated and die thus there is no ability to orgasm... with a vaginal canal there is a way to reach orgasm by stimulating the vagina (Thereby stimulating the prostate? )and if you read on here ladies do talk about clitorial orgasms as well as vaginal orgasms. This was something I also considered along with all the other stuff
Liz
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Quote from: LizK on February 16, 2019, 12:05:56 AM
During conversation about complications with my surgeon he warned me that one of the possible complications of the zero depth surgery is that the clitoris can become strangulated and die thus there is no ability to orgasm... with a vaginal canal there is a way to reach orgasm by stimulating the vagina (Thereby stimulating the prostate? )and if you read on here ladies do talk about clitorial orgasms as well as vaginal orgasms. This was something I also considered along with all the other stuff
Liz
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think nerve strangulations is a very rare thing, and it should be possible to rectify it. There are enough males who do not have any positive feeling upon manipulating the prostate (I dislike it a lot), so again, this has to be taken with a grain of salt. But if the penile inversion is done, the penile skin can, and will create sensations once all the nerves are working again. I don't know if these sensations are large enough to achieve an orgasmus. I think, if this was not possible for an individual prior to the surgery, it would not have improved because of the surgery.
Again, it is everybody's individual call, to decide which kind of surgery they prefer. For me it is not worth the wile to take the additional risk, and the way longer time to be under anesthesia, for the benefits I think I would gain from a vagina.
There are many omen around here who had the minimal depths only, and who seem to be pretty happy with the outcome.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 16, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
I think nerve strangulations is a very rare thing, and it should be possible to rectify it.
I'm with the surgeon on this one, especially as I know the surgeon involved. And it's not really fixable without surgical intervention - and the risks that come with it.
QuoteThere are enough males who do not have any positive feeling upon manipulating the prostate (I dislike it a lot), so again, this has to be taken with a grain of salt. But if the penile inversion is done, the penile skin can, and will create sensations once all the nerves are working again. I don't know if these sensations are large enough to achieve an orgasmus. I think, if this was not possible for an individual prior to the surgery, it would not have improved because of the surgery.
This ignores your largest sex organ - the brain. It also ignores the differences in surgical techniques, some completely detach some sections of skin and they may never re-enervate properly.
QuoteAgain, it is everybody's individual call, to decide which kind of surgery they prefer. For me it is not worth the wile to take the additional risk, and the way longer time to be under anesthesia, for the benefits I think I would gain from a vagina.
There are many omen around here who had the minimal depths only, and who seem to be pretty happy with the outcome.
And this is the thing to remember, it's the individuals choice - this is something that some around here need to remember.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 16, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
and the way longer time to be under anesthesia, for the benefits I think I would gain from a vagina.
There are many omen around here who had the minimal depths only, and who seem to be pretty happy with the outcome.
I am one of those women happy with my cosmetic procedure but I would like to straighten out one point you made. My partial or cosmetic vaginoplasty required approximately 6 hours of surgery. My doctors suggested that a full depth procedure would only have added an additional half hour to forty five minutes of surgery time. While this is a longer time under anesthesia, it is not a significant addition to the total time.
Quote from: Dietlind on February 16, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
I think nerve strangulations is a very rare thing, and it should be possible to rectify it. There are enough males who do not have any positive feeling upon manipulating the prostate (I dislike it a lot), so again, this has to be taken with a grain of salt. But if the penile inversion is done, the penile skin can, and will create sensations once all the nerves are working again. I don't know if these sensations are large enough to achieve an orgasmus. I think, if this was not possible for an individual prior to the surgery, it would not have improved because of the surgery.
Again, it is everybody's individual call, to decide which kind of surgery they prefer. For me it is not worth the wile to take the additional risk, and the way longer time to be under anesthesia, for the benefits I think I would gain from a vagina.
There are many omen around here who had the minimal depths only, and who seem to be pretty happy with the outcome.
Up to about 85% of all those who have GCS report being able to orgasm which leaves about 15% who cannot. My surgeon advised me that there is no way to repair the nerve strangulation as the tissue dies. My understanding is that this is the major cause of these women being unable to orgasm He spoke of being able to reach orgasm through vaginal stimulation and the prostate.
This is a huge and complicated operation. Not everyone ends up sensate. That is simply a fact.
This discussion should not be had without including the possible poor outcomes and the ramifications of these poor outcomes. I am not advocating vaginal cavity over zero depth. It is an extremely personal choice.
Take it with a grain of salt at your own peril.
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Quote from: Anne Blake on February 16, 2019, 03:58:08 PM
I am one of those women happy with my cosmetic procedure but I would like to straighten out one point you made. My partial or cosmetic vaginoplasty required approximately 6 hours of surgery. My doctors suggested that a full depth procedure would only have added an additional half hour to forty five minutes of surgery time. While this is a longer time under anesthesia, it is not a significant addition to the total time.
Reports from surgeons I found on the internet were talking about roughly two more hours of surgery. But even 30 or 45 minutes may become a heavy burden on an older patient, and I happen to be a rather old person, who made her living on research with surgical stuff! While today's anesthesia is way better than the one of a few decades ago, there I still a percentage of patients who either do not wake up, or have brain damage when finally woken up!
I want to do everything I can, not to be part of those statistics!
And as you said, one can live pretty comfortable with the cosmetic option! I for one, do not even care, if another person ever would see my new vulva (no third party has seen my genitals for the last 16 years). I just want it for me, and being able to see a vulva instead some left over male junk, when stepping out of the shower, is ll what I want (I could not see a vagina anyway!)
Quote from: Anne Blake on February 16, 2019, 03:58:08 PM
I am one of those women happy with my cosmetic procedure but I would like to straighten out one point you made. My partial or cosmetic vaginoplasty required approximately 6 hours of surgery. My doctors suggested that a full depth procedure would only have added an additional half hour to forty five minutes of surgery time. While this is a longer time under anesthesia, it is not a significant addition to the total time.
How was the recovery time? I would think shorter and easier than full depth. Still a major surgery though.
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Tonya,
I can't say for certain if my recovery time was shorter or not. After all I only had it done once and only shallow (bad joke). I can say that my recovery tracked the other stories that I have followed. No dilation made it easier. I still had all of the major incisions and work. The shallow means that I did have about an inch of depth thus some of the similar work, just not the length of depth and the fixation of the channel end. The length of surgery time was still in the five plus hour range and the ravages of anesthesia took the same toll. I got out of recovery center a day or two earlier than if I had full depth. The doctors gave me the same constraints on healing and activity limitations. It also took me a couple or few months to get back up to speed. I believe that having the full depth procedure is more difficult but I have no data or experience to believe that recovery is significantly different. Probably a big case of ymmv. For what it is worth, riding a bike is still a challenge.
Tia Anne
Quote from: TonyaW on February 24, 2019, 04:13:43 PM
How was the recovery time? I would think shorter and easier than full depth. Still a major surgery though.
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Hi Tonya
I think you may be right about the recovery time And I think the surgery time is about 2 hrs longer. I think from a logical perspective the recovery would have to be a bit longer because there is another process involved. I would also guess that the chances of complications would be higher because of the creation of a cavity.
I was under anaesthetic for approximately 5hrs. So similar as Tia Anne. The dilation regime seems to be the biggest difference in recovery with the added possibility of complications from the creation of the cavity. However these days I think most surgeons are very careful and the chance of perforation of the bowel is very low but still a rare possibility.
No cavity v cavity seems on the whole to be about personal preference and means very little in terms of recovery unless of course you have complications. It changes nothing as far as the cosmetic look goes.
I was in the hospital 7 days which is about normal for those who have a cavity.
hope that comparison is helpful
Liz
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I am now about 10 weeks post op after what my surgeon calls a modified vaginoplasty. First, this is certainly not cosmetic surgery and I have to admit I am personally offended by the incorrect use of the term. This is major body changing surgery, even without a full depth vaginal canal. I have a shallow vagina of about an inch or two that does not require dilation. I have labia and a clitoris. I was five and one half hours in surgery. My recovery has been difficult for me personally, minor complications, but none of the major ones that can come with a full vaginoplasty. Ten weeks later I still have considerable swelling, pain, discomfort; I still take pain pills to enjoy a day out. Two different surgeons have pronounce my results as excellent, I am completely satisfied with the appearance, it is awesome what my surgeon did and I am very grateful. The intensity and duration of my recovery does surprise me, I realize I am an emotional and somewhat hysterical woman, so this is my experience. :)
I have to agree. "cosmetic" is inappropriate as it is still "gender affirming" and serious surgery. Sorry if I used it somewhere. I do prefer to call it vulvoplasty.
All your feed backs are very welcome. I did think vulvoplasty would need less recovery time. Apparently it is still a lot. So the main differences would be on the complications (during surgery) and dilatation afterward.
I am in good general health and shape, so i think risk are minimal but still I am still tending to shallow for my personal mindset. But the limit is now more blurry ^^
Cheers all,
Really a lot of thanks,
It falls under the term cosmetic surgery, because it is meant to change the outside appearance of the human body. No vital organs are involved in this surgery (unless one has the colon part of it), and the body cavity is only very limited involved (not really at all with the limited depth one).
It is major surgery because a lot of skin needs to be cut open, and rearranged, fat deposits made, etc. But medically it is still a purely cosmetic procedure which has no medical requirement!
I do think you have the use of cosmetic surgery wrong. From Wikipedia:"Cosmetic surgery is a voluntary or elective surgery that is performed on normal parts of the body with the only purpose of improving a person's appearance and/or removing signs of aging"
The confusion comes from the fact that there is vulvoplasty cosmetic surgery for CISgender females that need to improve the appearance of their vulva for whatever reasons. This does not apply to GRS, whether full or shallow depth vaginoplasty.
Quote from: Dorit on February 25, 2019, 09:03:21 AM
I do think you have the use of cosmetic surgery wrong. From Wikipedia:"Cosmetic surgery is a voluntary or elective surgery that is performed on normal parts of the body with the only purpose of improving a person's appearance and/or removing signs of aging"
The confusion comes from the fact that there is vulvoplasty cosmetic surgery for CISgender females that need to improve the appearance of their vulva for whatever reasons. This does not apply to GRS, whether full or shallow depth vaginoplasty.
You are correct. The US Medicare System considers GRS to be a reconstructive surgery an not cosmetic surgery!
https://www.cms.gov/Medicare/Coverage/DeterminationProcess/Downloads/Kalra_comment_01022016_b.pdf
Quote from: Dietlind on February 15, 2019, 09:06:29 AM
Let me chime into this as a person who made his living with research on how to control and prevent pre and post surgical infections.
I have been reading your posts for quite some time, noting to myself that you are very sensitive to infection prevention and minimizing invasive work. This now makes total sense given your occupation!
On the main topic here, I *briefly* considered zero depth and discarded the idea because I might someday want to have penetrative sex. I could not possibly say today what I will want in my sex life or partner 3+ years from now and the cost is a non issue as insurance covers it either way. Dialation is not that big of a deal (I honestly think some folks make it into a bigger production than it needs to be), and with 2-week hospital stays kind of the norm these days, post surgical complications due to infection is pretty rare (near zero or zero). So I really could not find a reason not to have a vaginal canal, but could find a lot of reasons to have one. Fast forward a bit, and despite every relationship in my past being with a woman, I now solidly want a relationship with a guy. Who'd a thunk it? For sure I would not have been open to the possibility had my marriage survived.
We are all different (thank God, the world couldn't take another one of me for sure), but do consider that the future is of course a big unknown.
Quote from: Anne Blake on February 16, 2019, 03:58:08 PM
I am one of those women happy with my cosmetic procedure but I would like to straighten out one point you made. My partial or cosmetic vaginoplasty required approximately 6 hours of surgery. My doctors suggested that a full depth procedure would only have added an additional half hour to forty five minutes of surgery time. While this is a longer time under anesthesia, it is not a significant addition to the total time.
I am a bit confused on the length of time here - my understanding is that a full depth vaginaplasty is usually under four hours. Was there a complication? Mine was 3.5 with Ley/Meltzer Clinic. Who was the surgeon?
I have "heard" from a few surgeons that the difference in time between the two procedures is somewhat negligible on average.
Quote from: jill610 on February 25, 2019, 10:26:04 AM
I have been reading your posts for quite some time, noting to myself that you are very sensitive to infection prevention and minimizing invasive work. This now makes total sense given your occupation!
On the main topic here, I *briefly* considered zero depth and discarded the idea because I might someday want to have penetrative sex. I could not possibly say today what I will want in my sex life or partner 3+ years from now and the cost is a non issue as insurance covers it either way. Dialation is not that big of a deal (I honestly think some folks make it into a bigger production than it needs to be), and with 2-week hospital stays kind of the norm these days, post surgical complications due to infection is pretty rare (near zero or zero). So I really could not find a reason not to have a vaginal canal, but could find a lot of reasons to have one. Fast forward a bit, and despite every relationship in my past being with a woman, I now solidly want a relationship with a guy. Who'd a thunk it? For sure I would not have been open to the possibility had my marriage survived.
We are all different (thank God, the world couldn't take another one of me for sure), but do consider that the future is of course a big unknown.
If I would be younger, and would have the chances for a sex life that would/could last many years, I would probably go for a full vagina, too.
Human sexuality is very important, and a healthy sex life is so, too! And to have such a healthy sex life, one needs to have the fitting parts to participate!
Now fast forward to my age, a person well into her 70's. It is a simple realistic assumption that my future sex life will not last for many decades! My libido has to be found first somewhere under all the emotional junk in the subbasement, and the orchi certainly will nor help with finding it, and I would need a brain realignment to get away from preferring females as partners. Because of these facts i feel that a minimal depth procedure is fine for me.
I don't care if another person would ever see my private parts down there, Ido it for myself, to make sure that I don't see the ugly junk I have when I step out of the shower.
I was altered shortly after I was born, and now I want to see my body to look the way it was always supposed to be!
Simply said, when I die, I want to lay in the coffin as a woman with the looks of female genitalia!
Quote from: jill610 on February 25, 2019, 10:31:16 AM
I am a bit confused on the length of time here - my understanding is that a full depth vaginaplasty is usually under four hours. Was there a complication? Mine was 3.5 with Ley/Meltzer Clinic. Who was the surgeon?
I have "heard" from a few surgeons that the difference in time between the two procedures is somewhat negligible on average.
You really have me on this one, I don't remember because I took a nap that afternoon. Dr. Ley was my surgeon and she stated that there were no complications. Both Dr.s Ley and Meltzer agree that adding a full depth canal does not add appreciable time to the procedure, perhaps 30 to 45 minutes. My partner told me the time that I was away, leaving pre op to moving to recovery and it was between 4 and six hours but that was a year and a half ago and my memory of that time is a bit sketchy. Sorry if I misspoke.
Tia Anne
Quote from: Anne Blake on February 25, 2019, 11:26:39 AM
You really have me on this one, I don't remember because I took a nap that afternoon. Dr. Ley was my surgeon and she stated that there were no complications. Both Dr.s Ley and Meltzer agree that adding a full depth canal does not add appreciable time to the procedure, perhaps 30 to 45 minutes. My partner told me the time that I was away, leaving pre op to moving to recovery and it was between 4 and six hours but that was a year and a half ago and my memory of that time is a bit sketchy. Sorry if I misspoke.
Tia Anne
Ahhh prob 6 hour from wheel in to getting to the room, that would sound right.
I had ffs same day so I only have the actual length of each procedures to go by since I was under for 12 hours.
Jill, I must say that the work Dr. Ley did for your FFS looks great. I have been following your story on that and you are looking good. I hope for half that success when I visit FacialTeam in April.
Tia Anne
Quote from: Anne Blake on February 24, 2019, 07:31:39 PM
Tonya,
I can't say for certain if my recovery time was shorter or not. After all I only had it done once and only shallow (bad joke). I can say that my recovery tracked the other stories that I have followed. No dilation made it easier. I still had all of the major incisions and work. The shallow means that I did have about an inch of depth thus some of the similar work, just not the length of depth and the fixation of the channel end. The length of surgery time was still in the five plus hour range and the ravages of anesthesia took the same toll. I got out of recovery center a day or two earlier than if I had full depth. The doctors gave me the same constraints on healing and activity limitations. It also took me a couple or few months to get back up to speed. I believe that having the full depth procedure is more difficult but I have no data or experience to believe that recovery is significantly different. Probably a big case of ymmv. For what it is worth, riding a bike is still a challenge.
Tia Anne
Thanks for the info. I'm mostly concerned (hoping) that it's less time off of work.
I'm leaning towards a shallow at the moment. I'm not seeing a need sex wise for a full depth, no pre-op electrolysis, no dilation. Less time off work would just add to that.
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Quote from: TonyaW on February 26, 2019, 08:01:39 AM
Thanks for the info. I'm mostly concerned (hoping) that it's less time off of work.
I'm leaning towards a shallow at the moment. I'm not seeing a need sex wise for a full depth, no pre-op electrolysis, no dilation. Less time off work would just add to that.
I know a woman that had a shallow depth and went back to work three weeks later. For me, I am self employed and work from home, but I would find it challenging to sit in an office for eight hours after 10 weeks post op!