The other day I was talking with two of my friends, and one has been having electrolysis for five years and is almost finished and the other has had three sesions with laser hair removal. Both look good, but later that night I was looking through my True Selves book on page 133 where Mildred Brown talks about electrolysis and the amount of hairs just on the face alone and the final figure once complete. Then I started to think that perhaps it may be cheaper to go with the laser hair removal instead of the electrolysis. I plan on having a consultation with a plastic surgeon by the end of the week to see what he can do.
Gina
Funny you should start this thread. I have been getting electrolysis for the past 2 1/2 months for a total of about 9 hours. I have actually been considering switching to laser removal (as I have ideal hair/skin) and have a consultation appointment on Saturday.
Here's the reasons that swayed my decision:
1. Overall, it costs less.
2. It's faster in the long run.
3. I've heard good results from people.
4. I have ideal hair/skin type.
5. I will have fewer appointments in the middle of my work day.
6. They have a 3-Year guarantee and I can come back as many times as needed in that period.
7. My electrolysis is not being as permanent as I had hoped.
8. I do not need to grow out a beard for a week beforehand.
I have been told they have an 88-94% removal rate per session and I figure if I have any light colored hairs remaining, I can finish up with more electrolysis.
Melissa
Quote from: melissa_girl on February 21, 2006, 10:34:40 AM
Funny you should start this thread. I have been getting electrolysis for the past 2 1/2 months for a total of about 9 hours. I have actually been considering switching to laser removal (as I have ideal hair/skin) and have a consultation appointment on Saturday.
Here's the reasons that swayed my decision:
1. Overall, it costs less.
2. It's faster in the long run.
3. I've heard good results from people.
4. I have ideal hair/skin type.
5. I will have fewer appointments in the middle of my work day.
6. They have a 3-Year guarantee and I can come back as many times as needed in that period.
7. My electrolysis is not being as permanent as I had hoped.
8. I do not need to grow out a beard for a week beforehand.
I have been told they have an 88-94% removal rate per session and I figure if I have any light colored hairs remaining, I can finish up with more electrolysis.
Melissa
This topic has been discussed many, many times, so be sure that you read the threads on this topic. Terri-gene wrote an excellent topic on this, and you can read her article
here (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,1905.0.html)
and there is also a very good article in the Wiki found here:
Hair Removal (http://susans.org/wiki/Depilation)
Also just to comment on a couple of the points you raised Melissa if I may:
1. Laser hair removal is
not permanent and they know this that is why they only offer a three year guarantee as the hair will grow back. If it was permanent hair removal they would offer a life time guarantee.
2. Your electrologist not being as permanent as you would like would reflect on her/his skill as an electrologist. I have been going to mine for over a year now and the results are wonderful and there is no regrowth what so ever.
3. The fact that you have to let your beard grow out for a week also reflects on the skill of your electrologist, a good one can work with 1 to 3 days growth, for myself I just need to not save the morning of my appointment.
Just be sure to read the articles on this hon, as I would hate to see anyone waste money.
Chat later
Steph
I have read the articles and that is why I had originally chosen electrolysis. I actually on was letting my hair grow out for 3 days. I could do it with less, but it slowed her down. I realize that it's not certified to be 100% permanent removal and that is why I said:
Quote
I have been told they have an 88-94% removal rate per session and I figure if I have any light colored hairs remaining, I can finish up with more electrolysis.
However, it is certified for permanent reduction. If I spend $1000 and get rid of 90% of my hair, then I am way ahead of the game. The cost to get rid of 90% of my hair with electrolysis would likely be $3000-$4000 as a minimum.
Anyway, I have heard nothing but good results from transsexuals who chose to go the laser route. Another point is I have no gray hairs in my beard, which seems to be one of the big arguments towards electrolysis. This seems to apply more to late-transitioners. So, if I am able to significantly reduce the amount of hair I have, it will save me time and money in the long run.
Melissa
Quote from: melissa_girl on February 21, 2006, 10:34:40 AMI have been getting electrolysis for the past 2 1/2 months for a total of about 9 hours... My electrolysis is not being as permanent as I had hoped.
I can't imagine anybody could see any results in 9 hours. I know I didn't understand how the timeline would pan out. Several times I thought I would be done with electrolysis soon, only to be disappointed later. I started electrolysis with a light beard at age 23. At 30 or 40 hours I thought I was coming close to the end. As of last Thursday I've had 87 hours, but know I'm close to the end now. I stopped shaving last August, and only have enough hair now to go an hour every two weeks. My electrolysis has assured me I'll be utterly done with my face by the start of summer.
From the beginning of electrolysis (5-26-04) I was always on the maximum dosage of Spiro. In January of this year I went to my doctor for an additional anti-androgen. When I started on the new medication I was still having two hours of electro a week. A week later the regrowth was cut in half, and I started going an hour every two weeks. The medication is expensive, but it's much less than what I would be spending on the additional electro. Just an idea to keep in mind.
Quote from: melissa_girl on February 21, 2006, 01:20:51 PM
Anyway, I have heard nothing but good results from transsexuals who chose to go the laser route. Another point is I have no gray hairs in my beard, which seems to be one of the big arguments towards electrolysis. This seems to apply more to late-transitioners. So, if I am able to significantly reduce the amount of hair I have, it will save me time and money in the long run.
A good friend of mine began laser treatments early in her transition. (She's in her early forties now.) She spent lots of time & lots & lots of money on it before she finally gave up and started electrolysis. She's now had over 100 hours of electrolysis... I don't know the exact number. She still shaves every day, and I expect her to need another 30-40 hours at least. She's two years post-op and is still going to electrolysis because she thought laser would the trick. When the two of us sit around griping about how much electrolysis sucks, she reminds me that SHE was the stupid one, and at least I didn't waste thousands and thousands of dollars and a couple years on laser treatments.
At least six times now my electrolysis has pointed out patients that originally had a consultation but decided to go with laser and ended up coming back to them because the laser didn't work. Just three weeks ago someone called while I was on the table. It was a client who had come in a year previously, but went with laser instead, and the phone call was to set up their first appointment after giving up on laser. My tech just laughed. She says she's seen it a hundred times. My office doesn't argue with the people who "decide to go with laser". They just sit back & wait, because they say they know the people will be back to them at some point.
I believe laser is good for some things, but not the face. Just my two cents.
Amy
Thanks for your comments Melissa.
I was just reading a brochure provide by the plastic surgeon that will be handling the laser hair removal proceedure, and some interesting facts that I read were that it depends on metabulism and thickness of hair growth as to how many treatments a person will require, but I did like the idea that with laser hair removal it covers more area than with electrolysis, so technically you get more coverage for less money. But yes, the brochure did say that laser hair removal was not permenant, but neither is electroylsis. I have a consultation set up for March 7, and thereforth I'll be having my treatments. I do recall the report that Terri-Gene had posted.
Gina :)
Sorry Gina but electrolysis is guaranteed permanent, check out the medical literature on it, and I can back that up with close up pics of my face. Just to back up Amy's comments... it will take more than 9 hours to start seeing any difference, it also depends on the machine she is using and the method she uses. Some electrologists use the clearing method where you see instant results in small area's, and others use the thinning method where results are slow to appear. However both methods are effective.
Remember to do it properly it is going to take time, pain and money there are no shortcut's no magic creams and no miracle lotions, anyone telling you otherwise you be leading you a stray.
Steph
Hmmmm I think I'm up to 4 cents now :)
That was 9 hours in the same area being cleared over and over and over again, yet the hair still grows back as thick as it did before. I wasn't on hormones when I started and I know this most likely contributed to this, but I would think that there would be at least some removal after removing the hair 9 times in a row. I know there are people who are opposed to laser hair removal and nothing can change their mind. I will let you know the results, but I have heard more success stories than failures. I also don't doubt that I will need to do some touch-up with electrolysis at the end.
Melissa
Quote from: melissa_girl on February 21, 2006, 05:25:38 PM
That was 9 hours in the same area being cleared over and over and over again, yet the hair still grows back as thick as it did before. I wasn't on hormones when I started and I know this most likely contributed to this, but I would think that there would be at least some removal after removing the hair 9 times in a row.
Wow, that is not good Melissa, I can understand why you are unhappy with your results. Any skilled electrologist will be able to kill a hair with a maximum of two applications. Generally this is done with 1 application. From what you have said
I would drop this electrologist like a hot potato because they are either trying to milk you for as much money as they can or they are simply not good at their trade.
To effectively kill a hair the technician must have the skill to slide the probe straight down the hair, alongside the hair shaft to the root or what is known as the follicle. Hair grows from the bottom of the follicle and this is the area that the technician must zap. Too shallow or too deep and the chances are that the hair will not be killed. If the technician doesn't get the probe straight down the shaft then again the hair will not be killed. It's a matter of skill.
I am obviously not going to be able to convince you to stay with electro, and that is not my intent. I just want to ensure that you have all the facts before you invest anymore money.
Here is one site that you should check out before making a final decision. Just note that this is a very reputable, unbiased site and they refer to electro as
permanent removal and laser as
reduction. There is a difference.
http://www.hairfacts.com/index.html
Steph
Funny. Of all the women I know some have at least tried lasar and most of them went back to electro.
Melissa PM me who is doing yours and possibly I can recommend someone who is better.
Everyone. The reason I asked for a PM is that I do not want to put names out on the internet for the data miners/bots to harvest. If they are not already known for helping the T community I will not "out" them.
Leigh
Quote from: melissa_girl on February 21, 2006, 05:25:38 PM...
I wasn't on hormones when I started and I know this most likely contributed to this
...
No no no, electrolysis done properly destroys the hair follicle. Genetic men can have electrolysis done without issue.
Honestly it sounds like the tech isn't so good. >:(
Sorry Stephanie, I guess I must have misread that piece in the brochure about the electrolysis not being permanent. I guess it really all comes down to how many times the electrolysist goes over it and actually kills the root. But believe me, I'd never put any stake on any of those magic creams or miracle lotions. like you said, it is going to take time, pain and money. But I will check out everything with the doctor when I have my consultation with him in March.
9 hours is a lot of time spent on one spot Melissa, I really hope that your electrolysis is not trying to milk you, but is doing a good job. If I were you I'd shop around and see what other results you'd get and then you'd be able to make a proper decision then.
To effectively kill a hair the technician must have the skill to slide the probe straight down the hair, alongside the hair shaft to the root or what is known as the follicle. Hair grows from the bottom of the follicle and this is the area that the technician must zap. Too shallow or too deep and the chances are that the hair will not be killed. If the technician doesn't get the probe straight down the shaft then again the hair will not be killed. It's a matter of skill.
That's a very good description of electrolysis Stephanie. I actually bought a home kit once and I found that it was going to take me a very long time, and I had to find a quicker way to get it done. So I found a local place, but still I'd have to find the time . . . :( Fortunately the laser hair removal place is just around the corner from where I work.
Gina :)
Whether electro or laser works better depends on the individual. Results for either treatment will vary with each one being treated and neither is very often totally permanent. I have had treatments with both and the results depend on the area treated.
The fact that laser is said to be "permanent" and electro isn't, is wording that the FDA determined it would allow, and has little to do with reality. Even if you get good results, in most cases you will likely need a mantenance sessions every year or two, although they too should decrease with time.
Either method when successful destroys the follicle. But sometimes the folllicule is only damaged (to varying degrees) and will grow back (as finer hairs) either quickly, months or years later. Hence the maintenance sessions.
QuoteI can't imagine anybody could see any results in 9 hours.
Everyone is different. I have very little in the way of body hair and so I have had very little done in the way of electrolysis. Unfortunately, I have thrown too much money away on epi-light (not perm at all) and laser treatments (
very little cleared). So a few hours of electro with a good tech has left some areas looking good. Now just to get the bills paid so I can go back and continue the treatments.
Quote from: Sandi on February 22, 2006, 01:54:53 PM
>...The fact that laser is said to be "permanent" and electro isn't, is wording that the FDA determined it would allow, and has little to do with reality. Even if you get good results, in most cases you will likely need a mantenance sessions every year or two, although they too should decrease with time...<
Wrong way around Sandi :) Here are quotes from the FDA on each process:
Electrolysis:
"Needle epilators introduce a very fine wire close to the hair shaft, under the skin, and into the hair follicle," explains Anthony Watson, a materials engineer in FDA's Center for Devices and Radiological Health. "An electric current travels down the wire and destroys the hair root at the bottom of the follicle. The loosened hair is then removed with tweezers. Every hair is treated individually. "Needle epilators are used in electrolysis. Because this technique destroys the hair follicle, it is considered a permanent hair removal method. The hair root may persist, however, if the needle misses the mark or if insufficient electricity is delivered to destroy it.
Laser:
Three-month clinical trials of the ThermoLase process showed at least a 30 percent reduction of hair on treated areas in 60 to 70 percent of people treated. Manufacturers must limit claims of laser treatment permanence to results substantiated by the clinical data. Thermotrex, (one of the manufacturers) therefore, can claim that its laser process causes hair reduction for up to three months after treatment.
Steph
Oops! Yes Steph I had them backwards, my bad. Thanks for the correction.
Well, so far, after my last electrolysis session, almost no regrowth, so maybe the area is finally cleared. Hmm... ::) Anyway, the consultation doesn't cost me anything other than my time/gas.
Melissa
Last Friday I was talking with a TS friend who has had five years of electrolysis done. She had told me that she had tried two sessions with laser hair removal (at $900.00 a session) and because she has blonde hair, it did absolutely nothing for her. So she's content with going in once a week for $55.00 and having her technichian do electrolysis on her. Fortunately, my hair is dark, so I believe that the laser hair removal should work better on me, but I will ask the doctor about these things during my consultation.
Gina :)
I went for my consultation appointment on Saturday and I have to say that I am not very impressed. Since the last time I talked to them, their guarantee got shorter and their price got higher. So, for now, I'll continue with electrolysis.
Melissa
The debate between Laser and Electro has been going on for years and will continue for years to come.
Each side has their own stories, both of success and failure. I guess you just have to decide for yourself which works best for you.
I will say that you should wait to start (except for your face maybe) until you have been on hormones for a while, two doctors have told me that if you wait, your hair growth (other than your face) will slow down and you might, might not need as much work.
Sarah L.
Quote from: Sarah LouiseEach side has their own stories, both of success and failure. I guess you just have to decide for yourself which works best for you.
Yes, because the problem with many people is that what ever works best for them becomes the best period, and they and will swear forever by it. Either not aware, or unwilling to accept that for some others just opposite is true, and another system is best for them. Favoritism over what clinical evidence (though not in abundance) that exists.
What you say is true to a certain extent Sandi. But I've always felt that the laser side of the story is pushing way too hard and offering results that they just can't substantiate. I went for a laser consult and luckily the tech was honest and up front about the whole thing. She examined my face, colour and coarseness, and she told me that I would not be a good candidate, further to that she admitted that she couldn't guarantee permanent removal. Since then I will always recommend her to anyone considering Laser as she seems to be the most honest I've met.
Steph
Quote from: Stephanie CraxfordWhat you say is true to a certain extent Sandi. But I've always felt that the laser side of the story is pushing way too hard and offering results that they just can't substantiate. I went for a laser consult and luckily the tech was honest and up front about the whole thing. She examined my face, colour and coarseness, and she told me that I would not be a good candidate, further to that she admitted that she couldn't guarantee permanent removal. Since then I will always recommend her to anyone considering Laser as she seems to be the most honest I've met.
Well the lady that did mine was pretty honest too, but with her recomendation (and a free session of each) I tried both. She told me that quite often neither is permanent and thus no matter which you use, there is often the need for a periodic maintenance treatment.
My face was about 40 percent dark and the rest gray, and I had both laser and electrolysis done about 4 or 5 years ago. After 5 laser treatments no dark hair has ever come back to this day. Does that mean laser is better? No, it means it worked well for me. The next person it may not work well at all. Even for darker hair than mine.
She removed about three quarters of the other 60 percent that was gray back then also. I ran into financial difficulties, had to stop, and have had no more treatments to date. I would estimate that a good half of the gray that she did with electro (blend electro) did come back although finer. Does that mean to me that electro isn't as good? No, it means it doesn't work as well for me. For many others electro works the best with little or no maintenance.
But your make my earlier point by promoting what worked best for you. As far as your consultant not guaranteeing laser, she is prevented from doing so by the FDA. She may not do so anyway, but it is a moot point.
Nor am I pushing either laser or electrolysis as I believe it is dependant on the individual. So if anyone is seeking treatment, unless you have light hair, do yourself a favor and try both. See for yourself what works best for you. Most will give your a discount session to try either one. That way you don't have to take anyones word here, or the word of the technician that does the work.
Very interesting comment Sarah Louise, but yes, you are absolutely right that there will always be a debate between laser or electrolysis for years to come and it all simply boils down to which is best for the individual. In a few days I'll be meeting with my doctor and I will have a very good conversation with him going over everything with him, and then I'll be able to make a better decision.
Gina :)
Posted at: February 28, 2006, 04:21:48 PM
Today I saw the doctor that would be handling the Laser Hair Removal, and he told me that it would cost $2000.00 for my face, $2500.00 for my back and $2500.00 for my chest and that's all for six sessions. He told me that it'll have to be continuos, for it to be permenant. If I spread out the sessions, it gives the hair too much of a chance to grow back. But he also told me that because of the type of work that I do, he may end up burning my skin because of the tan on my face, so I may have to invest in a sunblock and heavy shirts if I decided to go this way.
Gina :)
I'm fortunate to live in easy reach of a laser clinic that offers some really good prices. Glad to hear about the alexandrite! Because that's what they're using on me. :) Anyway, their policy is after 6 treatments, if more treatments are required they're half off.
I've just had my second treatment a week and a half ago. So far the results are great - only time I ever shave anymore is if the old hairs that push out start to get in the way of passing. Whether or not it lasts in the long term, there's no way I could afford the cost of electrolysis, not to mention putting up with the pain, and the impatience of having it take so long.
Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 08:32:32 PM
The FDA just approved the LightSheer and CoolGlide systesm in 2003 for permanent hair "reduction". :: biting my tongue ::
So is the LightSheer a "good" type of laser? I'm about to buy a package of 4 sessions using one.
Sorry Gracie.
Been there, done that, got the Tee Shirt. Even their FAQ and disclaimer says it all:
From the FAQ -
QuoteLasertrolysis consists of several laser systems to perform quick and long
lasting hair removal.
Notice it says long lasting and not permanent.
and this is backed up by their disclaimer. Which states:
QuoteThis website contains doctors addresses and web pages which should be considered doctor advertisements. The information contained in this web site is educational only and should not be construed as offering medical advice.
Steph
Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 09:58:51 PM
Also please :: begging :: remember what I said about your laser person being experienced. Make sure you ask how long they've been doing it and ask them about their experience with hair removal in general. You don't want anyone burning your face. It's not likely, but you know what? It's not worth the risk.
Thanks for the great advice Gracie!
The operator is a medical doctor, and he's been using lasers for 6 years - though not sure how long he's had the LightSheer.
He claims the only seriously bad reaction he's seen was when he burned a puerto rican woman's arms to the point of blistering. He says she had tanned since the last session and lied to him about it during the usual routine questions, he didn't notice it, and she ended up burning - though it apparently healed fine.
He also said I should be prepared for "patchiness" after the first few sessions, where for whatever reason the whiskers will come back in clumps.
He claims that the LightSheer laser WILL kill the hairs, but it's only a certain percentage killed each time, and to expect about 80% of the hairs to be permanently gone after 6-8 sessions. Could be more, but no promises.
I've corresponded with a half-dozen or so people who have used laser, including a non-TS male who just hated shaving. All of them report that the hairs which were killed never came back, even after 4-5 years. The biggest variable seems to be the number of treatments, though most report 10-20 is usually needed to get nearly everything.
The people I've seen around the net who swear it's a waste of money usually have blonde hair, or mention how they only went for 1-3 sessions before giving up.
The bottom line seems to be it CAN work, but there are many more variables involved than with electrolysis. You need a good laser, a skilled operator, light skin (usually), dark hair, and many sessions.
Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 11:10:39 PM
I think I said this last time to you too. I apologize if what I've said has offended anyone. This issue does get my blood pressure going because I feel like I'm being called a fool because of what I believe and now what I've experienced. That's not easy to stomach. Nevertheless that does not give me license to be disrespectful and I hope that I haven't been to anyone who has had electrolysis.
Gracie
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being passionate about something that you believe in Gracie, and I can assure you that you have in no way offended anyone, and I would be very surprised if anyone thought you were a fool. You have stated your views and experiences for the benefit of those here at Susan's, and that is what Susan's is all about. We are all adults here and you have stated your views in a most respectful way just as others have done in this topic.
Keep doing what you are doing hon, there will always be pro's and cons, fores and against, one side and the other side, the point is that at Susan's we are free to choose, and choose we do. I don't think that there is anyone here who would profess to be the last word on any topic available, but we all have our experiences, background and knowledge to share and the more of that we get the better we are.
You were
NOT disrespectful, OK :)
Steph
Quote from: Gracie on March 10, 2006, 08:32:32 PM
I lost you Melissa. I didn't get here soon enough. :(
Melissa I think if you have dark hair you should find a laser technician who does both electrolysis and laser. That's what I have. I started in July of 2003 and had my last productive session where the laser could still zap hairs at the end of 2005. I had two white hairs removed with electrolysis. Two.
You didn't lose me. I actually have not had a chance to go back to electrolysis since I wrote that post. I am actually still planning on going with laser anyways. I needed to go for about 6 weeks without electrolysis anyway before I can have laser, so as soon as I can get some money (withing the next month or 2), I'll go and pay for a package with unlimited treatments. There are a few laser places in the area, so I will check out the other ones as well. I will also go and ask some more questions to the place that I had a consultation appointment at. I am glad you mentioned a couple of laser systems that are known to be effective. I will ask what each of these places have.
Thanks,
Melissa
Interesting thread.
Has anybody done a cost/benefit analysis of using both laser and electro -- Laser clears big areas of 'old growth', and the electro zaps the sprouts as they reappear.
I noticed during my most recent session that old-growth neck hairs were taking a LONG time (15+ seconds, 8/55 setting) while new growth gave up in 3 or 4 seconds at a lower, more 'comfortable' setting...
Haz
Last Friday I was talking with a girlfriend at The Bottom Line nightclub about Laser hair removal and electrolysis. She had told me that she had had two sessions with Laser hair removal, but because she's a natural blonde, it did nothing for her. So she's been doing electrolysis for five years. She hasn't had to shave for two years. She complimented me on how smooth my face looked and I guess she didn't notice the five o'clock shadow either. I told her that I shave twice and the type of foundation that I use, which really covers up my five o'clock shadow nicely. I really appreciated the compliment and I thought that maybe I won't have to go through with somethings in my journey. :) Since I'm now living on my own, it's allowing me to be myself alot more. :)
Gina :)
I understand how difficult it is to go for treatments and have an area cleared, yet the hairs seem to return. Those "returning" hairs are actually new untreated hairs. :o To prove this you should bring a 10 power magnification mirror with you at your next treatment. You will then be able to see for yourself that when you leave it may appear that all the hairs are gone, yet there are tiny hairs waiting to mature over the next week or so. This process goes on for months. :( There is no way to speed it up. All of the hairs are not mature and ready to be killed at the same time.
If after 4 to 8 months you do not see any reduction in hair growth, then you should change electrologists. Just remember: It's like losing weight, it takes awhile to reach our goal.
I hope this helps.
Lisa :)
I think the tendency is for people to promote whatever form of hair removal has been successful for them, and denigrate the other.
Both are capable of good permanent results, when the operator is skilled and the latest equipment is used. The reason laser claims 'permanent reduction' rather than 'permanent removal' is that after a single session, there will always be regrowth of some of the area treated. This is true of electrolysis as well; the problem is that both are only capable of killing follicles that are in the growth stage at the time of treatment. The difference is that elecrolysis treats each individual hair, so it can claim permanent removal after one session of that individual hair. Obviously, any hair that is visible to the operator is in the growth stage.
Laser treats areas rather than individual hairs, and as only about a third of the hairs in a given area are growing at one time, a minimum of three treatments are required to permanently clear an area. This is if it is done with perfect timing and the subject is an ideal candidate (light skin and dark hair).
My plan is to clear as much as I can with laser, then switch to electro for any light or particularly stubborn hairs. Everyone I know that has gone this route (with a good operator!) is very happy with the results, even 3 and 4 years out.
Annie
I'll be trying laser on my neck area next weekend. My plan is to use it to knock back as much of the 'old growth' as possible, and then let Lisa play whack-a-mole with the sprouts that come up after, while they're still tender and only take about 6 seconds at a lower setting to kill.
Might as well add here I learned the hard way that taking an antihistamine BEFORE the session makes the session a LOT worse. I've already got a few strikes against me -- Spiro is a diuretic and dries you up, and the topical anesthetic is a vasoconstrictor which dries the skin up (otherwise the anesthetic would be leached out of the skin.) Adding the antihistamine dried me up so much that I wasn't bubbling up, and some neck hairs took a minute and a half to give up and die... You've been warned!
Karen
Personally I chose electrolysis. It takes time, money and lots of tears, but it is worth it!!!! HAIR DOES NOT COME BACK!!!!!
Personally I like laser. I have had people say they did not realize I wasn't GG, because I have such smooth skin (no needle digging in every square inch). I've only had 1 treatment so far too. I have my next one in less than 2 weeks. I'm not going to get into the whole laser vs. electrolysis debate though. Most of the arguments used against laser are about "old school" laser. FYI, I have been being treated with the lightsheer diode laser.
Melissa
Based on the results of several friends I have to say electrolysis is the only way to go. One friend had the full laser treatment at a cost of $1200. I stopped by her house one day and she hadn't shaven for a couple of days. I saw no difference between the before and after laser treatments. Another friend had the same treatment at the same place and is now having electrolysis. She found a highly skilled electrologist and so far she is quite pleased.
As for me laser wouldn't be an option even if it was permanent as most of my hairs are now white.
Quote from: tinkerbell on July 29, 2006, 10:05:58 AM
I can see why some girls prefer laser; you see instant results, the treatments are not so painful...
Take a huge rubber band, stretch it back as far as you can, and thwack it against your face a few hundred times. Now set your face on fire afterwards... and let it burn for a few hours. Repeat once per month.
And let's not forget the nasty-looking, red-spotted, polka-dot face for a few days/week.
Quoteyou don't have to deal with the EMLA cream on your face one hour prior to treatments
My doc prescribed me EMLA. I use it, though it still hurts like heck. It's odd... I can't feel my face when touching it (after EMLA), but I sure feel the laser hits.
QuoteIt ISN'T permanent and hair COMES BACK!!
All the hairs on my neck and cheeks fell out after my first session six months ago, and I haven't seen them since. The mustache and chin have been very sparse since then, but still have some small patches of growth between the monthly sessions (though less and less each time). This is after only four of the recommended six sessions (most TSs will tell you it takes more than six).
It's difficult to say whether the mustache/chin areas are "growing back," or if it's just previously dormant hairs waking up between sessions. It's normal and expected that dormant hairs will wake up and sprout between sessions, which is why it takes many sessions spread over time to eliminate everything. It's also why both my doc and I are shocked that 90% of my face was cleared after that first session - and has stayed that way ever since. It's only around the chin that I've had ANY significant growth for the last six months.
I'm not complaining :)
Posted at: July 29, 2006, 12:18:12 PM
Quote from: tinkerbell on July 29, 2006, 10:05:58 AM
I can see why some girls prefer laser...
Other things to consider:
- There's no danger of "pitting" scars from laser as there is with electro (though there's a very small chance of being burned). IMHO, laser is less likely to leave permanent scars or damage, and isn't as dependent on operator "skill" to avoid damamge (though obviously cranking the thing up to "KILL" settings isn't smart)
- It's possible that laser can rejuvinate the skin somewhat (perhaps encouraging collogin production)
- Laser carries no risk of infection (such as hepatitis) from needles
Quote from: Kate on July 29, 2006, 11:37:56 AM...
- Laser carries no risk of infection (such as hepatitis) from needles
As far as I know the Electro tech should be using disposables, an as was described to me, BETTER BE.
(Hint, Lisa (CPE) this is your cue... ;) )
(=
I'm with you on this Kate, although it didn't seem to hurt me as badly. Let's not also forget that you have laser done with a clean shaven face, whereas you have to let it grow out for several days prior with electro, which sucks if you're fulltime.
90% of my hairs were also cleared on the first treatment, whereas with my electro, I'm still growing hairs where I had it done.
My laser place has me use tropicaine, which is supposed to be better than EMLA and it's also put on an hour prior. Maybe that's why it hurts less on me than you. :)
Another thing to note is that not all lasers are equal. There are the older generation of lasers (which don't work very well) and the newer generation (my place uses a lasersheer diode laser with a coolglide tip) which work much better. Many people who discount laser are referring to the older generation lasers.
Melissa
Quote from: Melissa on July 29, 2006, 12:17:23 PM
I'm with you on this Kate, although it didn't seem to hurt me as badly. Let's not also forget that you have laser done with a clean shaven face, whereas you have to let it grow out for several days prior with electro, which sucks if you're fulltime.
That depends on the technician Melissa. My electrologist is able to work quite effectively with one days growth, and while I agree it can be a problem for those living full time, I've found that with judicial scheduling of electro sessions I can live with this issue.
Quote90% of my hairs were also cleared on the first treatment, whereas with my electro, I'm still growing hairs where I had it done.
it is very obvious from the discussions on this topic that personal experiences and satisfaction vary with the individual and the results expected and achieved. For my self using electro, my chin is clear and there has been no re-growth after two years so far.
QuoteMy laser place has me use tropicaine, which is supposed to be better than EMLA and it's also put on an hour prior. Maybe that's why it hurts less on me than you. :)
I tried EMLA several times but I was not happy with the results and stopped using it. I simply grin and bear it now. When It comes time to attack my top lip I plan on going to the dentist or my doctor and get them to freeze my lip and let the the tech go nuts :)
[/quote]
Steph
I'll probably get electro when I'm all done with laser, because I know I have a few light colored hairs, but I feel the route I'm going is the best for me.
Melissa
I wish that you girls lived near me and I could show you good electrolysis! I can tell from the posts that some of you have gone to superior electrologists and others have not been so fortunate. The best advice that I can give is to switch if you are not getting good results after approximately 4-6 months of treatment.
Now electrolysis is not an instant change, especially when dealing with beard removal. There are a lot of hairs there to treat. I understand how difficult it is to see the hairs growing in. We want instant success!
It's true too that you do have to let the hairs grow a bit so that the electrologist has something to grab onto with the tweezers. Many women cover the hairs at this time with make-up to conceal them before their appointments. Then after the appointments you can shave the remaining hairs and let the air get to the area.
I have had lots of electrolysis done myself. I am proof positive that it works!
Yes, electro HURTS!!! I had my weekly 2-hour session with Lisa today, and I was making some very un-ladylike noises as she worked on my upper lip (I'm quite the opposite of Leigh and Terri who just kind of meditate and zone out (this reported by Terri and confirmed by Leigh.))
I'm having Lisa concentrate on my upper and lower lip. As I tell her, if there's a veggie on my plate I don't like, I eat it first to get it out of the way. Likewise, I'm having Lisa do a very sensitive area so that slowly, gradually, the sessions will get more and more bearable.
I had laser done on my neck ($180) and a month later, full face ($300). I wanted to knock the dark hairs back, so Lisa could stomp the regrowth when it was small and easy to treat and kill. Laser kills 10% of the treatable hairs each treatment. So the second treatment should kill 10% of the 90% that's left, or 9%, the next treatment 8.1% of the original amount. So three treatments gets maybe 27% of the treatable hairs. Eventually, you get to a point of diminishing returns for your dollar, because the treatments are, say, $300 a pop. And they are generally scheduled too close together. To optimise the killing of treatable hairs, the treatments should be about 6 to 8 weeks apart.
As to the discomfort, I likened it to the same intensity as getting my upper lip electro'd. The whole procedure WAS over more quickly, though. But the end results are that the dark, treatable hairs are back all too quickly. As we are moving outward from my lip area to my cheeks/chin and then on to my neck, I may consider one more laser treatment prior to seriously getting down on my neck area, just to give Lisa the opportunity to stomp the dark hairs as they regrow.
A good, skilled electro has a 70% chance or better that that hair that's being treated will NEVER return -- if you're getting less than that, your electro might be 'farming' you rather than making a good-faith effort to kill each and every hair she treats. If you ain't seeing REAL results after 4 to 6 months, or if you suspect the hairs are being deliberately under-treated and plucked to extend the income from your face, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!
I told Lisa today at the end of our session that I looked forward to calling her in two years not to make an appointment for my face, but to see if she wanted to do dinner with me and visit.
I do look forward to that day...
Karen
Hi, Tinkerbell;
Roger that -- Lisa has just RE-registered. She had registered back in January but, because she hadn't made a posting within some period of time, had her account purged. She consulted Kimberly about re-instating her old account, and Kimberly suggested it was just easier to register for a new account.
I buy tubes of canadian Betacaine through Lisa. It's about as effective as EMLA, but easier to use -- you don't need to saran-wrap the application, and it's a colorless petrolatum-based gel. I can even dab it on straight from the tube while waiting at traffic lights. It does cut the pain of the sensitive areas somewhat, though I'd get shot up with novocaine if I could...
Whenever possible, we split the session in half with a break in between. It's more bearable that way, knowing you can ESCAPE for 45 minutes to an hour and a half while Lisa has another client (and with the longer breaks, I can run to In-N-Out burger and grab some grub :D )
Karen
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm37%2Frianmarze%2F2809568263.jpg&hash=d51d8141d8fa9bf20c2b4a5d6905b7c2eb302300) just so we don't forget what it's all about :icon_evil_laugh:
I know...I'm twisted... >:D
tinkerbell
Girl, I KNOW (http://flashofinsight.com/images/electro.wmv) what it's about!
More on electro -- I found out the last session I'm a 'watcher'. Put a mirror in my hand, and if I can see the procedure as it happens I can better tolerate the pain. But the mirror can't always be positioned to where I can see what's being done to my face.
Lisa uses special glasses. They have BC frames with little 10x telescopes welded to the lenses. I'd love to get a view through those as she goes about stomping hairs, 'cause I think she has the ideal view. <sigh> an engineering problem to overcome...
Karen
Quote from: Karen on July 30, 2006, 09:43:01 AM
Lisa uses special glasses. They have BC frames with little 10x telescopes welded to the lenses. I'd love to get a view through those as she goes about stomping hairs, 'cause I think she has the ideal view. <sigh> an engineering problem to overcome...
Karen
Aha, a bit of a masochist are we :) My previous electrologist use a scope, it actually looked like a microscope but not quite as powerful.
Steph
Quote from: Steph on July 30, 2006, 01:01:49 PM
Aha, a bit of a masochist are we :) My previous electrologist use a scope, it actually looked like a microscope but not quite as powerful.
Actually, no. I whine and I cry and I yelp and hold my breath and tense my entire body when she's treating that sensitive zone just beneath the nostrils. But when I was watching in the mirror yesterday, it was somehow easier to take. Now my idea is just to mount a camera on those glasses with exactly the same field of view she has in her telescopes, and a hand-held monitor or something so I can watch...
Karen
Karen, you are not alone in liking to watch the hairs come out.... Many of my younger generation clients in their 20-30's like to do this, or people who enjoy science. The more mature ladies tend to not want to see the work. Believe me, I have offered. I guess that means that you are part of the "hip" crowd. 8)
By watching the hairs, you can see why I am waiting for the hairs to release. You get to be part of the action! You know what the alternative is......tweezing! Yikes!! :o There is a huge root sheath with the beard hairs so you might feel a little tugging. In humor, I also offered to show you the difference between TWEEZING the hairs and TUGGING/TESTING on one with a large root sheath. ;D I LOVE to educate my clients so that they are knowledgeable consumers!
One last thing I want to mention is that we have to be on the lookout for people wanting to "farm" the business in both electrolysis and laser. That is the reason I stress RESULTS so much over mere promises of results. Don't continue down the same path if you are not seeing a difference... You are wasting your valuable time and money.
Truth on a stack of biblical books.
I went to sleep several times and no pain killers either. Well not when she was doing my face. When she was doing the lower, even though my Dr said it was not necessary one jab of the needle and it OH THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Nocacain shots later it was great.
A good tech is difficult to find. I have seen some work that looked like adolescent acne at its worst and some that 3 hours later you couldn't see any inflamation.
Just my thoughts but when you make your first appointment and the tech says I can clear you in XX hours--don't walk, run out the door. There is no way they can predict how much endurance you have, how you hair responds to treatment, how much and how fast you regrowth is.
Some techs do a clear cut, working one area exclusively while others skip around to even out the color differential. Personally I liked the skip around for the simple reason that I had so little to start with.
Now with old age and the radiation burns it wouldn't have made any difference who I went to see.
Leigh
Quote from Leigh:
"A good tech is difficult to find. I have seen some work that looked like adolescent acne at its worst and some that 3 hours later you couldn't see any inflamation."
I certainly agree with you here. The skin should not look like adolescent acne at its worst after a treatment. Whew! It is best to do a small test patch for 15 minutes.
I have experienced the good and the bad too. Fortunately, the bad was only one time.... It was an eye opener for me. :o
Quote from: Leigh on July 31, 2006, 11:05:20 PM
Just my thoughts but when you make your first appointment and the tech says I can clear you in XX hours--don't walk, run out the door. There is no way they can predict how much endurance you have, how you hair responds to treatment, how much and how fast you regrowth is.
Reminds me: does anyone have any experience with the "Lucy Peters" electrolysis centers? I believe they do give a wriitten garuntee for time to clear an area. I also believe they use a different tip (bulbous?) which is supposedly quicker and less damaging than the usual needles.
I have NO idea however if any of this is true - or just marketing hype.
Quotethe radiation burns it wouldn't have made any difference who I went to see.
actually there Leigh ... not that I noticed anything that would affect the feeling of being with you for a shortage of time ,.. Just keep out from under the hoods ......but yeah, electro stuff.
I really liked the slow poke around method. Its slower at first, pure mind wise, but it works pretty fine.
I just tell my electrologist that im particular about certain areas and she does what she does. It's good to be worked on by someone that perhaps knows more then you do about her factual job.
Terri
Terri,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. ;D Actually it IS a lot easier and faster if a client does NOT try to direct the process too much... By that comment I mean: There are well-intentioned clients who want to tell me "get this hair, and now get that hair and so on." This is when the area is full of hairs too.
I listen and follow their instructions, however this type of client actually gets FEWER hairs removed for the time that they are in the office. In other words, they waste a lot of time and money. :o Often times too, these are the client who have tons of hairs and would benefit most by just sitting back and letting me do my work. ;D If it is NOT obvious what hairs need to go or what area bothers them the most, then I do not hesitate to ask for their input.
My goal is to have happy and satisfied clients so that they will go out and deliver the good news that electrolysis works!
P.S. I just want to make sure to clarify what I mean by overdirecting and skipping around too much..... spending 5 minutes on the left underarm, then 5 minutes on the right underarm, 10 minutes on the bikini, 3 minutes on the right shoulder, 3 minutes on the left shoulder, 10 minutes on the chest, etc.... with each area having lots of hair. The result of too much skipping is little progress in made in any one area. :(
Lisa, the only problem is that you're down in California and not here. :) I know I will need to finish up with electrolysis once laser is done on the dark hairs (99% are dark), so I'll see if I can get any recommendations over here at that time. I would say at this point that my remaining facial hair causes me to feel worse about my body than even my genitals, but that's probably because it's the hairs that are visible to other people (unless I come untucked :o).
Melissa
I am not looking forward to electrolysis, I have been considering laser first then a few years later as the problem children retrun have them zapped with electrolysis.
What can I say? Something can be made a lot tougher if in a person's mind they already dread it before having tried it. The pre-conceived attitude can affect the outcome. ???
For me, the pain of having the hair outdoes any pain felt from the removal.
Melissa
Errr you think you have problems .... look how hairy I am...
Buffy
PS.... Took me 3 years to remove all facial hair by electro
I'm a GG, but I too had my share of electrolysis as a client. I had a pretty bad hair problem and I looked forward to my weekly treatments when I could be free from hair. :D Having the hair was MUCH worse than getting rid of it. No kidding......
From someone that has had laser done: I went three or six day/treatments of approx 8 hrs each (enough time to cover the entire body) three times. Been hair free for about six years. The key is, the type of laser. Mine was type "C". Be repaired for the worst, most intense pain of your life. The laser burns the hairs down to the root in 1/4 inch square sections. That's a lot of squares. I still have to go for a follow up on the face. I think the price was $3000 or $1500 or more. Been too long, but money well spent.
The goal is to get rid of the hair permanently. It's good that laser worked for you and you are happy with the results. :) I would stick with it if you found something that suits you.
Quote from: Karen on April 16, 2006, 11:25:04 PM
I'll be trying laser on my neck area next weekend. My plan is to use it to knock back as much of the 'old growth' as possible, and then let Lisa play whack-a-mole with the sprouts that come up after, while they're still tender and only take about 6 seconds at a lower setting to kill.
Might as well add here I learned the hard way that taking an antihistamine BEFORE the session makes the session a LOT worse. I've already got a few strikes against me -- Spiro is a diuretic and dries you up, and the topical anesthetic is a vasoconstrictor which dries the skin up (otherwise the anesthetic would be leached out of the skin.) Adding the antihistamine dried me up so much that I wasn't bubbling up, and some neck hairs took a minute and a half to give up and die... You've been warned!
Karen
Interesting, Kate. The first session (only 15 mins because that's all the I had the money for, and just wanted to 'try it out') I had, the technician told me that HAVING lots of moisture in your body (antihistamines dry you up) makes it difficult to get the hairs out. Does my technician not know what she's talking about? For the record I went to Bluegrass Electrolysis & Skin Care Clinic in Lexington, KY.
Posted on: August 02, 2008, 02:49:37 PM
Quote from: Tink on July 30, 2006, 02:07:42 AM
(https://www.susans.org/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi100.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm37%2Frianmarze%2F2809568263.jpg&hash=d51d8141d8fa9bf20c2b4a5d6905b7c2eb302300) just so we don't forget what it's all about :icon_evil_laugh:
I know...I'm twisted... >:D
tinkerbell
Is the pic you showed considered the "two hand method"? I just had my first "blend" session yesterday. Afterwards, the technician who owns the place told me that in my next session I will meeting a technician that she just hired, that is from California. The new technician has 30+ years experience. She told me the new technician uses the two hand method. After my first session was completed she showed me the hairs she had removed, all laying on something that looked like a napkin. It seemed like there might been 20+ hairs on it.